The main concern and industry of bureaucrats is not to rectify their mistakes, but to conceal them.
Simon Leys
For one of the best explanations of just how and why the Los Osos Sewer Disaster became the Great Los Osos Sewer Disaster, Ron Crawford has put it all together for you in an easily readable form at http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com Let's hope Colin Rigley from New Times or Karen Velie over at Cal Coast News take a gander. For sheer wasted public money, this puts Paso Robles' recent bungles and pay-outs to shame. And it's a hell of a story, but it has always been a very complicated one, which is why our media and so much of the public has turned away. Well, no longer. Here's the Reader's Digest Condensed version. Simple. Clear.
But ultimately sad. There will be no accountability here. The citizens in the PZ will be left to pay the bill, with 45 of them still branded as criminals and their homes under threat. Read it and weep. Your government at work here in . . . Chinatown.
Tuesday, March 27, 2012
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161 comments:
Clear...simple...foolish and just plain delusional is more like it. But if Ann is pleased with Ron's 'super-tight' kerfuffle, then that is OK by me.
I hope that the folks at CCN do pick up this 'story'.
If they do go with this 'story', then CCN will clearly expose their foolish, histrionic 'reporters' for what they are (Agenda-driven new age muck-rakers who rely upon non-sourced allegations and rampant hysterical speculation coupled with a careless lack of facts or prudent investigation.)
But hey, nobody is perfect.
I don't know how "foolish and plain delusional" it is... because 45 residents were randomly selected based on "non-sourced allegations and rampant hysterical speculation coupled with a careless lack of facts or prudent investigation" that their septics were polluting the groundwater. No tests, no studies. Nothing.
It's like turning off the lights in a classroom when a few kids are misbehaving.
And that's life isn't it, on that
"misbehaving" thing? That was surely the rule in my early classes to promote peer pressure to learn to work together. You aren't just hurting yourself when you act up, you hurt those around you too.
And what gives anybody the idea that 8-12 homes per acre is a safe way to dispose of waste using septic tanks? What building code ANYWHERE in the US allows that? (Maybe it's OK in some 3rd world countries, but that isn't, and shouldn't be, HERE!)
Are we a community or are we not? Every house doesn't have to pollute! But to pay for infrastructure it takes ALL of us. If you don't want to be part of a community, then live out of town on acreage where you can have your beloved septic tank, which seems to be MORE important to some people than neighbors.
Don't get stuck on the past. What we have now is a solution that like it or not, had enough support FROM YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS to pass the assessment and type of collection/treatment systems that we are going to get. You had your chances to influence which path to take and it wasn't selected. Get over it!
Anon 11:14...the topic is Ron's 'story'.
Never-the-less, the complaints your post listed have been repeatedly raised, litigated and legally resolved (by a 'real Judge') many times over the last 40 years. I accept the court's affirmative support of the State and Region Water Boards decision to protect that citizens water.
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Actually (to Anon 1:34 PM), no. The issues brought up earlier have not been "raised, litigated and legally resolved." The crux of PZLDF's case was about the water board's alleged violation of due process, and the hardship it created as a result of the enforcement proceedings.
There wasn't a question of evidentiary support in the cases. The judge reinforced the blanket rule of water board authority over Los Osos homeowners, but not the preponderance of evidence it takes to show specific pollution of those selected properties.
Also, not worth responding to Lynette. She's mentally ill.
PZLDF has appealed its case which is now down in Ventura. Let's see if yet another court trying a case 25 years too late will yield a different result.
Toonces sez:"And what gives anybody the idea that 8-12 homes per acre is a safe way to dispose of waste using septic tanks? What building code ANYWHERE in the US allows that? (Maybe it's OK in some 3rd world countries, but that isn't, and shouldn't be, HERE!)"
You'd have to ask both the county AND the Regional Water Quality Control Board that question. The county kept issuing legal septic tank permits and even AFTER the RWQCB declared an "emergency!!!" moritorium because of septics, they STILL issued permits for 1,100 MORE! Go figure? That inexplicable piece of nonsense is one of the key things that set this whole mess off onto the wrong footing. You do not declare an emergency then issue 1,100 new permits that would add to the "emergency" and hope to think that a good number of people wouldn't question your credibility. Or sanity?
Toonces sez:"Don't get stuck on the past."
This is the knee-jerk mantra for the people who run Chinatown and don't want anyone to inquire too closely about anything.
Toonces, this is not a case of "being stuck" anywhere, but of taking a look at what happened and why. Steve Monowitz, for example, supplies a key part of this puzzle. If members of the previous Coastal Commission were honest, they might supply other, critical missing pieces as well. There will be no accountability on any of this (see the epigram, above) but it sure is historically interesting.
Toonces also sez:"You had your chances to influence which path to take and it wasn't selected. Get over it!"
It's hard to "influence" something when it's based on a lie or is hidden from view until it's too late. Fraud of all kind depends on exactly that: hiding facts until it's too late, then declaring it's time to move on, don't let's get stuck in the past, etc.
anonymous sez:"complaints your post listed have been repeatedly raised, litigated and legally resolved (by a 'real Judge') many times over the last 40 years."
To my knowledge, was Steve Monowitz was never deposed or called into any court of law? Ditto for any of the Coastal Commissioners who spoke about "bait and switchy." Now THAT would have been an interesting case, wouldn't it?
another Anonnymouse sez"The crux of PZLDF's case was about the water board's alleged violation of due process, and the hardship it created as a result of the enforcement proceedings."
Ah, thank you. Exactly. Due Process issues. Nothing about anti-sewer anything.(another Big Lie) Due process.Considering the epigram above, we'll see what shrift due process gets in a system that operates under the same epigram.
Anon 4:45
The PZLDF arguments were litigated; resulting in the 'Real Judge' ruling that the 'crux' of the PZLDF arguments presented were not viable or based in law.
PZLDF LOST; the 'crux' issues posted above have been resolved. I accept the court's ruling. At this time any PZLDF appeal to attempt to retry the case will not be allowed by the court as the appeal must center around proving that the 'Real Judge' technically erred in his decision (rendering it moot). IMO, a PZLDF appeal will fail as the 'Real Judge' ruling was procedurally correct.
You can follow this case from this website:
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=2&doc_id=1974927&q=111747&f=558848379
As Ann said, the PZLDF case was not indicative of "anti-sewer." Also, the lawsuit didn't address the proof of pollution. All these CDs and DVDs the RWQC provided to the judge were documents showing enforcement, not proof that the 45 homes were polluting over the allowed standards of discharge.
Anon 1:03,
The Keller vs. the LOCSD (the CASE social justice lawsuit of 2001-2003) resolved the issues of 'proof' you argue of.
That ruling makes it crystal clear that the State actions do not 'shock the conscience' in that the State;
1. Acted within it's constitutional rights in establishing the PZ.
2. Acted within it's constitutional rights on deciding the basis (proof) for determining the need for the PZ to begin with.
3. That the PZ home owners are responsible to pay for the sewer regardless of whether they can pay for it or not.
The PZLDF lawsuit seems to have forgotten that very important Superior Court ruling; hence the PZLDF lasuit failed; as will the appeal.
To continue make arguments regarding 'proof' or 'process' at this point in time is just purposefully turning a blind eye to the legal ruling already set by the Keller v, LOCSD lawsuit.
The ruling has been made; that you do not know of or accept that ruling does not undo the ruling made.
Anon at 3:12 PM, you are sorta right and wrong. Keller v. LOCSD didn't resolve the issues of "proof." That lawsuit was about whether the state had a constitutional right to establishing the PZ. They do, sure, but the limitation of that authority was never litigated.
You still need evidence to sustain your case in any civil proceeding, no matter who is making the case.
The issues litigated in the Keller v. LOCSD were a tad more than you state; but I am sure you already know that.
So focusing on your issue of whether the State properly exercised their authority (in regard to the PZ45), the subsequent PZLSDF lawsuit resulted in the Court upholding the State. The questions concerning propriety have been asked and answered by a 'Real Judge'.
Today the appeal is constrained exclusively to the question of if proper procedures were followed by the 'Real Judge' in making the ruling. The chances of the appeal succeeding are veeeery low.
But the lawsuit will have served its' purpose; and the arguments have been resolved in the proper setting of the Appeals Court. The community can move along knowing that those concerns were properly vetted.
Does any one know how much the CSD paid Sullivan for that PZLDF lawsuit?
The CSD contracted to pay 25% of the legal bills. As of spring 2008, they paid between $80,000-$100,000 according to Joe Sparks. But it is unclear due to a lack of transparency just what the TOTAL bill was, so the CSD may have paid it all, not just the 25%.
It's ironic that the Lisa board whined about transparency regarding the last board, then jumped in and did what they purported to dislike. Remember that meeting where it came out that the CSD was doing this, but the item was never on a closed session agenda and did not get public comment until after the papers were signed.
Don't know where this talk of "Real Judge" comes from. We're not talking People's Court.
'Real Judge' a is a nod, an acknowledgement to Ann's oft-stated advice that all should stop nipping at each others heels until a lawsuits arguments are heard and ruled upon by 'real judge' in a court of law.
But "real judges" are quickly called incompetent or corrupt if the wrong side wins.............
People who support the project will often say that many of the issues bring up have already been litigated and resolved. That's not always the case.
What is the case is that every time someone steps up who doesn't support the project ends up costing the community more money! The irony of any of the community members calling "foul" on affordability has done a great job at shooting themselves and their neighbors in the feet.
Sometimes it's not possible to litigate and resolve every little issue. Litigation is time and money. Take the LOCSD bankruptcy for example: Julie Tacker - We won't have to pay the contractors a dime, it's not going to cost us anything....yada yada yada. The reality: LO Community members will have spent millions on that alone and have lost precious time and resources. So when she starts talking about affordability and the county overspending, the LOCSD has over spent MORE on the bankruptcy than the county has spent on project development. Nice smoke and mirrors game. Millions of public funds wasted for what? A bad reputation, no money to improve the crappy infrastructure; nickle and diming to fix old tanks because any money for new was spent on - you got it! The bankruptcy!!
Anne will never tell that story, neither will Ron and neither will the BOS Regulars fess up to how badly their numbers were off. It's ok though because at least the sane people in LO and at the County get it and I think they can all read their ipads during their weekly scoldings you old hen-peckers.
People who always say, "Every time someone steps up to oppose the project costs the community more money" ignore the history of this saga. Also, invoking hatred toward those who politely disagree.
No they don't ignore it. They acknowledge the increase in cost. How is pointing out the obvious "invoking hatred"? Mirror please!
But, if it does invoke hatred because people in the community are SICK and TIRED of the pandering, so be it. It's better to be honest than pretend that you politely disagree. I have not heard one speaker at the BOS politely disagree it's more of threats of litigation, belittling of other community members, belittling of county staff, taunts of ignorance. No one supporting the project gets up there and does that at the BOS or the LOCSD do please show the polite part.
Oh, they definitely ignore it. Not one comment here, not one letter to the editor or viewpoint or blog article (from anyone who supports the sewer) has critically looked at the history of the project.
One group of individuals goes to the BOS meetings, is accused of being repetitive and sometimes harsh in their tone. Still, it's civil. Not a big deal. Another group claims they are the "majority," but only a few people say that. Those few people have written incendiary opinions that produced death threats and harassment of those who oppose the project.
"Mirror please!"
Sorry but I politely disagree and find nothing civil about it. It comes across as threatening, bullish and boorish. Regarding the history and anyone who supports it NOT looking at it is inflammatory. How about the fact that some of us have looked at it and honestly do not understand what your cultish fascination is with trooping in and out of SLO and various meetings to do "what" exactly?
Maybe the sewer supporters get that the one sided fight rages on and liken you and yours to "The Mouse That Roars". Do you even know what you are "studying" anymore? The issue has been pulled to shreds over the past 40 years and yet there is some magical unturned stone? Some Step tank at the end of the rainbow? Oh we are paying attention, know the history fine thanks and stare baffled at the "troops" who do not represent me, my community or our "best interests" and actually are working against the environment. Jaw dropping and mind numbing.
Criticizing the government and questioning authority has always been a civil act. Some people have called the County "criminals" and "crooks," but you'll always have those people who do that anywhere, not just in Los Osos/SLO County. What you do is conflate those people with everyone else who civilly oppose the project, and that's just incorrect.
A lot of good people fight the good fight on all sides of the debate. There are just extremists who polarize the debate and invoke hatred.
The "fight" as you put it Anon 1:14 PM, is OVER. What is left is how much will this cost if we have citizen-caused delays to the current project, just as history has shown us.
"STOP THE SEWER! SAVE THE TOWN!
OR IN GIBSON'S HELL WE'LL DROWN!"
In other news:
A “Real” Judge, a king among men, a judge with the significant name of Μανουηλ, one who was chosen to give a message, delivered a message, that reverberated from the community center to the crack in the hill and back over ninth street and was then proclaimed throughout Ososland in the form of a CSD press release.
Huzza huzza, hear ye, hear ye. The appeal to the Bankruptcy has been denied, the CSD’s plan has been accepted.
Kudos and dittos to those who used “Real” in that context.
As for the endless repetition, the rehashing of words, the endless droning, on and on and on….
Reworking the same tired arguments, proclaiming the same "Magic words", pretending that something hadn't happened, or pretending that something ordinary, is something sinister and outrageous.
Sometimes I wish the anon WERE identified, so i'd know who to skip.
All ye be thankful that the speakers at the BOS’s chambers have more creativity to show, and that you all have something to watch, or not watch, than some imaginary lonely boy, locked in his father’s basement, with nothing else to do but post comments on the Tabla Rasa section of a blog he never visits.
As usual, lost in the Cacophony of silent anonimity is the sad fact that a number of lots were cast which were only slightly smaller than forty five and a number of lives only somewhat larger then 45 were cast into uncertainty.
All because an executive director of a regulatory agency came up with a plan, after learning that a project supported by his agency was facing possible disruption as a result of a pending recall election.
And for most intents and purposes his plan worked. Selective enforcement took place. And in no substantial measure was his directly executed plan challenged in a court. Not then and certainly not now.
Several of the CDO’s simply complied. One knowing his septic system to be undersized for his dwelling appeared to take it in stride. Of course within his immediate watershed were neighbors who‘s systems were equivalent or worse. So the Executed Order was not a Just one. and it was not an idle threat, and none of the remaining 4,500 are lifted from under an executable threat. But there is a direct cost to obtaining reasonable legal advice for an unprecedented personal situation, particularly in respect to transfer of ownership and the direct expense and bother of pumping out a tank. Many of the townspeople didn’t “Get it”. Many offered support in various ways. Several of the CDO’s were victimized by individuals who proclaimed sympathy but who had other schemes and agendas. One individual whose plan was flawed, comes to mind. But in retrospect, this person, actually tried and ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING. Others, who occupied the space that an activist or a leader could have occupied, just talked and talked and some even sabotaged, some knowingly and some unknowingly.
What is sadder yet is that abusive actions by the state, all in the pursuit of a mandate (applicable to all basin beneficiaries), were not recognized, corrected, or prevented from happening in a future date.
(Just a little dittoed expansion of your concise final paragraph there, Ann. Nothing you haven't written about before)
In what? The recycled water?
As usual, Alon makes no sense.
Shhh Lynette, we have a burgoning poet in our midst, don't startle it, and stifle it's nascent creativity.
Anon, 12:13 AM, Alon makes plenty of sense if you know what goes on in this town.
Alon, you are right, I shouldn't try to stifle the "poet!" :-D
Yawn.
It says a lot about a person when they randomly mention little boys locked in basements. Shark-jumping, anyone?
Anon 9:42, 9:50, 10:21, stop being a jerk. And no one but you mentioned LITTLE boys. Guess we all know what's on your mind.
This isn’t about the sewer anymore. It's apparently about Lynette and Alon; two people who didn't get elected to the LOCSD.
One of them, Lynette, has stalked Julie Tacker for years and years. She still has a complaint pending on the CSD. Alon is just... Alon, a real nut. This should be about what has happened to the CDO recipeints. And you're right Ann, it's Chinatown.
'Toons,
I'm not Anon 9:42 (no argument there though), but should I stop being a jerk and stop talking about the sewer too? Please advise. I mean, it's no guess what's on your mind either? You know it's way too early to declare it's way too late to stop talking about stopping the sewer, right? We still got April, May, June, the July 4th 'Rally Against the Sewer' barbecue, then spread out and plant a few arrow heads here and there, you know, slow things down a bit... You'd didn't think we we're going to roll over, did you? Really? Happy April Fool's Day, Mrs. Sewer Nut!
Alon and Lynette ... they have so much in common ... and nothing.
Lynette attacks everyone she doesn't agree with because she has psychiatric issues and is allowed to use a computer -- and whole towns and cities have to put up with her stalking until people complain to authorities and something's done.
Alon's life is dedicated to spreading hate wherever he goes. Not a sign of a very happy person.
Not a sign of two very happy people joined together only by necessity.
Anon 2:10, where do you get the idea that this thread is about me and Alon? Why is not getting elected to the CSD umpteen years ago important now, and it certainly hasn't any relevance to Ann's topic. (BTW, You lie, I have not stalked JT and there is no pending complaint.) You are just doing silly name calling which really only reflects badly on you.
Present Anon 2:28, Ann's topic is the sewer and the 45. It's not up to me to advise. Joke taken. Happy April Fools Day back, one day early. I can't wait for the day that Los Osos isn't defined by a flippin' sewer. I will hang up my sewer moniker and throw a party.
BTW, You lie, I have not stalked JT
I would testify in court on behalf of Anon 2:10 PM that Lynette -- and Lou -- have been stalking Julie for years, no matter how hard she tries to deny it.
I am not a friend of Julie's, but I know a lie when I see one. And that's a BIG ONE. What Lynette means is: "You can't prove it." I've read the constant attacks on a variety of blogs. It's a vile obsession and as clear as the nose on Lynette's face.
Lynette: Why don't you and Lou just leave Julie, Jeff and Jack alone. It lies at the root part of your spiritual sickness. Until you let go, Julie will be the center of the sad lives that you and Lou don't have.
2:51 person, FYI - Lynette and Alon always opine on every Los Osos sewer discussion, every blog, every article, all the time 24/7.
Lynette got called out for harassing people. She was reported to the CSD.
Theres a pattern of abuse. Its gotten really old.
Both these people have slandered and oppressed the BOS speakers.
The people they claim they represent don't come on the blogs. They don't defend them because they know Lynette and Alon are a lost cause.
Oh, and they have the right to speak too like everyone else. They try to take it away.
So disappointed, Lynette, why are you such a creep? You've harassed Julie over the wood chipper, threatened to take her kids away, called them "bastards." Your a disgusting person. Go back to Venice
FYI - Mr. Magoo is Lou's Tornatzkys nickname at Cal Poly.
Mr. Magoo says:
03/31/2012 at 6:24 pm (same time as post above)
Aren’t farm animals banned from the Supervisor’s chambers? Oink Oink
Mr. Magoo says:
03/31/2012 at 6:20 pm
Oh, here we go…the pot calling the kettle black. Oink Oink…get a life!
Lynette and Lou stalk Julie Tacker. Case closed.
I saw that. Oops. Lou forgot to log out Sewertoons. Well, there's your proof. They are one sick couple of dumb skinheads.
I hope Julie saw this. I'll email it to her to make sure she does. Thanks Anon 7:00.
It's the Catch of the Day.
Be sure to attach an ad from Jenny Craig when you do.
Disgustedly Morbidly Obese!
Jeff and Julie’s kid will grow up to be a great person and a responsible adult, will be well respected, and will lead a productive life. This is not only because he has two parents who love him very much. The 28 year old going on 30, posting from his father’s basement, and who looks like the illegitimate love child of Monty Burns and Homer Simpson, won’t, won’t, isn’t, hasn’t and doesn’t.
The proof is in the postding.
Aaaaaanyway, let's bring it back to sanity. I read Ron Crawford's article and I liked it. The CCC does not revoke permits often because of politics. It's always because of politics. Revoking the permit now would jeopardize funding for the LOWWP, and the CCC doesn't want that swinging ax of the County over their heads.
Or perhaps they are sick of seeing Los Osos sewers dancing before their eyes....? One can only hope.
Anonnymouse sez:"Aaaaaanyway, let's bring it back to sanity. I read Ron Crawford's article and I liked it. The CCC does not revoke permits often because of politics. It's always because of politics. Revoking the permit now would jeopardize funding for the LOWWP, and the CCC doesn't want that swinging ax of the County over their heads."
Exactly. Nothing will happen. Ron's writing history, which is sooo interesting. And now, he'll have to add to that account some possible good news: Roger Briggs is retiring. I'm sure the RWQCB is heaving a sigh of relief. He served that Board so badly. His ill-conceived Mad Pumping Scheme and the attempt at illegal electioneering via the Mad Hatter Tea Party "prosecution" of the Los Osos 45 that followed exposed the incompetency of the staff and the appalling bungling by the willfully ill-informed Board itself to public review. (And self-evident ridicule. Recall Dr. Wickham's cleaning everyone's clock regarding how septics actually work, something you'd think a "water quality" Board overseeing an area rich with septics should have already known?) The Mad Hatter Tea Party wasted gazillions of dollars, and time and did absolutely nothing to clean up so much as one drop of water.
Good riddance to Roger. Let's hope that Board hires a better administrator.
Watch what you hope for. The next administrator may be our worst nightmare.
If the sewer is somehow delayed further through the efforts of the few who wish to believe the concentrated septic systems do not pollute,the Water Board may go beyond threats of fines. The ruse that the water treatment facility was the boogie man has been moved out of town. The streets will be dug up and the same basic collection system will be installed.
All such a waste of time and money. We could have had a compliant, state of the art system already completed and for a lot less than the County system will eventually cost.
Ann does not care what the delays cost and she sure doesn't care about the pollution of our drinking water. Ann is merely shilling for more and longer delays so that she personally doesn't have to pay for her portion of any whatever sewer. Remember, Ann never paid for her share of the PZLDF law suit, she had the CSD pay for that folly. Ann is simply a bitter old woman fighting against the relentless tides of time.
Anon 7:00PM and 7:30PM, Lou has never once blogged in his life. He is not Mr. Magoo. The Julie stuff is in your mind only.
Let's talk about Roger Briggs for a second.
Without going too deeply in the past, you can say that Briggs was too aggressive in his approach. He was strongly receptive to calls for "fining the district out of existence," and conducted enforcement proceedings that had CDO recipients staring down the barrel of a gun, rhetorically speaking.
Nobody in the history of the RWQCB has conducted enforcement like Briggs.
Seems to me that Briggs was not aggressive enough. He did give Schicker and company more than enough time to put their plan on the table, but they never did. They chose to take us down the path to bankruptcy. Wasn't the plan really to make the sewer so expensive that it wouldn't be built? The RWQCB never did enforce any action against any property owner in LO. Maybe instead of testing the waters with 45, maybe the next time will be 4500 and with so serious financial bite.
I believe it was Gail who whipped some people into a frenzy over their CDOs as some other people simply signed some sort of agreement and were done with them and refused to participate in the angst. No one ever paid a fine (or probably paid Sullivan either, the CSD did that).
Briggs' enforcement proceedings really divided the town even more. We talk about social infeasibility with Tri-W. What about the social infeasibility of targeting 45 homeowners with the Scarlet Letter "P" (polluters)?
Bull $hit Not one of the 45 ever paid a fine! The turmoil was all of Gail makings! And with Ann cheerleading all the way. It is too bad that the RWQCB didn't follow through and fine those few who wouldn't sign the original CDO.
The community has been divided because of Lisa, Julie, Chuck, Gail, Al, Ann and a very few others. They have acted like little children since they didn't get their personal ways. They still don't get it that the war is over. The sewer is coming. All that was accomplished was a costly delay. Thanks for tripling our sewer bill! Bunch of screwed up activists!
Doesn't matter if the 45 paid a fine or not. 45 homeowners were castigated in a very, very public process based on absolutely no specific evidence that their septic systems were polluting the groundwater.
Because of fiery words like yours, Anonymous (above this comment), people have been threatened. Their children have been targeted. Their lives are shattered. Blaming a certain group of people over and over again does have ramifications if you project such an irresponsible message to the wrong people.
I do remember the extremely uncivil manner in which those opposing the original CSD's plan. Blame should be placed on those individuals who did threaten the CSD, or are you only one sided in your thoughts. No one's life was "shattered", only some melodramtic posturing in vain attempts to bully forward their own agenda. Perhaps you are still trying to "throw down" your shovel? The community is behind the County's plan. Not the STEP or Non-sewer wishes of a few.
I do remember the extremely uncivil manner in which those opposing the original CSD's plan. Blame should be placed on those individuals who did threaten the CSD, or are you only one sided in your thoughts. No one's life was "shattered", only some melodramtic posturing in vain attempts to bully forward their own agenda. Perhaps you are still trying to "throw down" your shovel? The community is behind the County's plan. Not the STEP or Non-sewer wishes of a few.
It's not about STEP or "non-sewer." Behind every argument made for or against the sewer is a person who deserves every right to express themselves as much as you do. Everyone who has showed courage in expressing their opinions about the sewer have unarguably experienced hardship in one way or another. Keep that in mind.
People who have "expressed" themselves, which has resulted in the delays that have raised the price of the sewer, might consider expressing some remorse at this higher-priced outcome, which also includes the CSD's bankruptcy, the CSD's loss of control over the treated water, the CDOs and NOVs, the further degradation of the drinking water aquifer. You have to take responsibility for your words' impacts beyond just "expressing" them.
It is your right to express yourself.
No one is preventing you from expressing yourself.
You have expressed yourself.
You have been heard.
All the arguments have been dissected.
All the decisions have been made.
All the finances have been arranged.
The permit is issued.
Construction Contracts are being let.
Construction begins in late July.
Nothing to do now but sit back, watch and get on with life post sewer nonsense.
As for life being hard; who said that it ever wasn't? We all have burdens to carry. Some more than others. At this point in time best to focus on how to help lessen the load. Got any ideas?
The County is not the controlling regulatory agency, just the lead agency.
One of the frequent speakers at the BOS Chambers and the CSD, noted in both chambers, that “The CCC is the only animal with longer teeth than the Waterboard”. I remember those words as clearly as if they were expressed only three inches from my ear.
The regulatory agency that controls the project at this time is the CCC. There was a small window in which the RWCB could had stepped in at the end of CCC deliberations, with the proverbial monkey wrench of conjoined authority, and they didn’t.
The materials previously submitted by the LOSG were paid attention to by at least Two commissioners during the Appeal process. The CCC staff paid attention to those and to additional materials, and some impact was made. There is some continuing influence to those materials in past, current and future deliberations between the County and the CCC staff.
The predominantly same materials submitted in the revocation request, lie somewhere between “not so much” and “not at all”. A non concurrence by a single or even two commissioners will not result in a revocation acceptance and are therefore moot, and I will not bother to review CCC policies and procedures to support this opinion.
I’m afraid there is no thread by which an axe (or a symbolic axe sheathed by a bundle of punks, representing magisterial powers) can hang.
The 45 were significantly and substantially burdened, including a measurable direct financial burden. As stated clearly, previously. No other homeowners in the prohibition zone were similarly burdened.
Any Ideas? Suggestions? Take a long walk, starting on a short pier, head West, it’s only a 4 foot drop to wet sand. Support the local coffee shops. Sing to the universe. Put on some old shoes, a windbreaker, pack a cold lasagna and walk the spit. Finish the laundry (If it’s too heavy, you can lessen and wash two loads, no one is looking), Walk the dog. Fix the passenger side car mirror. Cradle a cat. Read a poem.
Alon,
As I said, some (PZ45) are burdened more than others.
What to do? Yeah..that's it!
Time just to live life and forget about Da Sewer.
Off and about.
Adios.
Who are the people who keep intruding on this debate? Lynette Tornatzky thinks people who speak at the podium are actually delaying the project.
Bullshit!
What a psychopath.
Lynette, you would be hanging by a noose for what you've done to people here, people who have criticized the project. Have you no shame?
What a piece of work.
Anon 5:46,
One finger pointing at me, three fingers pointing back at you.......
Sticks and stones, etc.......
BTW, the discussion you refer to is over on CalCoast, and what I said was the Supes probably have the speakers speeches memorized as they repeat them weekly. I said the revocation request had the potential to delay the project elsewhere on a Trib article.
Really, you ought to try doing a cut'n'paste into a text program so that you can keep your facts straight. It would really improve your writing.
Lynette,
The revocation won't delay the project, but it might stop it.
CCC can't accept LOSG's findings, but can't dismiss them either. Even if LOSG is more right then wrong, CCC won't revoke the permit.
Once the facts are laid bare, however, embarrassment to the county could ultimately prove corrosive enough to undermine the project by uncoupling USDA funding, should public pressure increase scrutiny on the project's price tag.
I agree that the Supes probably have the speaker's speeches memorized, which would debunk those who claim the Supes aren't listening.
On the other hand, I remember when Alon was so embarrassed at LOCAC when they had to give him an enema at the podium!
So not all the meshugana are on one side or the other.
Anon 6:59, in your dreams.
The "facts" as you put it, got a full vetting at every hearing for this project. There is nothing in what LOSG presented to embarrass the County. Maybe the funding could be delayed due to the time it could take to finish this revocation thing, but it won't be uncoupled due to public pressure because so far every indicator, such as that petition or sewer naysayers at the podium, speaks otherwise. (When did that petition start? End of January? 284 signatures out of 5,000 asked for by April 1 is a pretty poor showing.)
Your "humor" is misplaced and adds nothing here except to illuminate your character.
Thank you Lynette. Thank you for showing some class in this tasteless blog. The antagonist is just venting.
There is nothing in the revocation request that has swayed the CCC. The project has not been slowed one bit. Shovels back in the ground by July.
I know that you are an anon, Anon 8:17, but I very much like the sound of your words and appreciate the good news.
The only shovel that should be going in the ground, in Los Osos, is to bury Lynette Tornatzky.
Oh, Hi Anon 8:17 PM ,Anon 2:45 and possibly 2:55PM, whom assumed that I know, which previous anon you were, while I’m only guessing (95% correctly by past performance) and quite likely 1:55 also, or was that Yesterday?
Well, for you I will make an exception to my rule about anons- "I set my own little rule, and I broke my own little rule."
Why? Because I think you are “Special”, and I like you for that. But I wrote this for Anon 7:23 AM, who may not be you.
It is fairly hard to tell anons apart. Your given name is identical, and your surname is as fleeting as the sands in the hourglass. Tick, tock… You may as well be Anon 7:24 AM by now. For example where is Anon 4:45, of yesterday, to whom you or another anon sounding much like you referred to earlier? And a few other anons disapparated.
I try to ignore anons because trolls oft hide their lurkings there. And that is also sad because sometimes among the anons, The Fog also rolls in unnoticed.
I ignore trolls for the obvious reasons.
I also ignore trolls because in the SLO county blogs and specifically here, the trolls are frequently just one person blogging anonymously under multiple identities.
Once you observe the pattern, and understand the underlying pathology and apply logical stratagems such as “Ockham’s Razor”. Well, it’s just that obvious. Jealousy, it is the simplest explanation.
There is another theory, other than that of the Lone Character Assassin; The theory of the Gassy Know-it-alls. Hmmm… where is the backspace button on this thing?
So the Grassy Knoll theory is thus: There is a Warren of trolls, a whole Commission of them, no less than two, no more than three, by necessity. Huddled together, mixing the flavors of their individual poisons. Manipulating the narcissistic nabob to go out and take all the attention.
Trying to undemocratically shift the power of perception, by the only tool they have aplenty, the coward’s resort, the lie to the back of the head.
The odd thing is, that in this case (Ditto CCN, DittoTribune), the two theories are not mutually exclusive, but are just an obvious, sadly entwined, little tawdry fact.
So 7:23 AM anon, (who by now may have aged to 8:15 PM, or even well past the 11th hour). I ask, since you frequently use phrases identical to that of trolls, ones who were never human, never walked as sewer kings, never participated in this community. Who troll for trolling sake, the sewer just a strange attractor around which they orbit, not having enough gravitas of their own, so as to break free.
Digressing;
And because this really isn’t about “The sewer”.
How do you conclude that Ann is a bitter woman? She is not being Canonic right now.
Her dogs got walked today, etc..
And who cares about the sewer? Not Ron.
Don’t you get, that her real agenda was to lure you onto the blog so that you might comment on Rush Limbaugh, and other "current non Sewer topics?"
You sewer nuts are so naïve…
So, back to the phrase you (?) wrote:
All such a waste of time and money. We could have had a compliant, state of the art system already completed and for a lot less than the County system will eventually cost.
ANYONE OF EITHER SIDE CAN SAY THAT! Really!
Three ॐ projects since 2005!
Given that we both know that if a stack of paper six inches high submitted to a proper authority (and we may differ as to specific value of content), will not make an iota of difference. And by indirect inference, neither will a few words in this venue. If only; “Because the How it is, is How it is”.
But my real question to you my friend is; That in your more trollish style writings, are you suggesting that we follow bad examples,that "We could become like they are"?
And one more thing;
April Foolies!!!
or is it?
Okinr Asgoth!
I proclaim this to prove that I am not a Mechanical Man!
I have an idea who Alon is referring to. I've been ignoring Alon, but since he keeps thinking I'm someone else, I have to say... Alon, you're out of your damn mind.
I suppose I cannot mention this person here, so fine, but Alon you keep alluding to the guy. I don't see him on here. I won't speak for him, but he told me a lot of weird stuff about you. I didn't believe it, but now I'm suspecting it's true. He's saying you called him and threatened him on his cell and at his house after he removed some comment of yours on his blog? He said that you reported him to the press as a person named 'Jazzman' who insulted that girl who was murdered, Destiny? He said he received hate mail from her family because you said he was someone that he was not. What's with the 'lonely boy,' 'little boy' stuff? That's sick.
This is getting too uncomfortable for my taste. It'sa day late, but April Fools Alon. You're wrong on so many levels. Also, Lynette, shame on you for encouraging him to bother people.
Sincerely,
Very disgusted
Hi Alon,
Do I know you? Yes, though not well.
Did I blog that Ann is a bitter elder-gal?
No, I did not blog that; nor are those my sentiments.
Do there be trolls amongst us? Hell Yes; and we all know who they are. No need for names least they become agitated uber-trolls.
Why do I post on Ms. Calhoun's internet highway?
Ever pass a wreak and slow down to gawk?
Ever comment on how bad the wreck was?
That about sums it up.
In short, nothing to see her so move along....all is well. Rejoice.
No, all is NOT well here.
Everything anon 7:35 said is true. I looked into it because I was forced to. It confirms the worst about Alon. What a liar.
I feel sick we ever invited him into our house. We tried to be supportive, but he insulted our friends and eventually us, and spouts lie after lie about good people. Of course he has to blame it on an "anon" for "anons" telling him what a jerk and a liar he is. It's obviously made him mentally ill, if he wasn't "born that way".
My wife summed up Alon the best: "What can you do with a broken alarm clock?"
Shame on you vicious sickos with no conscience. You know who you are.
Anon 4:43,
Three fingers pointing back....
What's with the Alon obsession anyway? Why the burning need to dis? It looks so silly since you are an Anon anyway.
Anonnymouse sez:"Who are the people who keep intruding on this debate? Lynette Tornatzky thinks people who speak at the podium are actually delaying the project.
Bullshit!"
Here's what's so amazing to me about the SewerCrazies. Ron Crawford is writing History. He's been assembling and posting various chunks of the story (which is years long and incredibly complex),assembling and linking the documents, so you can read them for yourselves, organizing the timelines, what happened, what the evidence points to & etc. I link to his installments of this History because I find it so fascinating -- all those linked dots describing a snapshot of how this trainwreck started going off the rails at certain points.(Hellloooo, Steve Monowitz!)
But you SewerObsessives seem to think that what Ron has posted is some kind of a threat to this Sewer project that you need to "defend" or "attack" or that your "side" needs defending or that what Ron's posted or what anyone says here in this comment section or at the BOS podium will somehow delay/derail this project. So you obsessively show up here (and, apparently other blogs when they have any mention of sewerish issues) to maliciously chew on each other's ankles -- endlessly. Nearly 80 comments on this one link which is weeks old.
Clearly, you're getting some kind of psychic pay-off here. and I'd be curious to know just what the pay-off for each of you is.
Personally, I see huge chunks of pathology in so many of these comments and in those who are making the comments. Pathology. But How do any of you explain your behavior? Really. How would each of you explain why YOU keep returning again and again and again, to chew, chew, chew, and rage and neener-neener-neener, day after day after day?
A few people in Los Osos feel compelled to make themselves relevant in comment sections to overcompensate for their past indiscretions.
Ann says, "But you SewerObsessives seem to think that what Ron has posted is some kind of a threat to this Sewer project that you need to "defend" or "attack" or that your "side" needs defending or that what Ron's posted or what anyone says here in this comment section or at the BOS podium will somehow delay/derail this project."
OK, that is fair, I am a sewer obsessive.
But what Ron says isn't a threat, but what LOSG has done could be one in terms of delay. Ron however, since we are on that topic, isn't always accurate (perhaps you read my post on his latest blog article pointing out an obvious error), nor does he give any view but his biased one. He is a commenter, an opinionator, but not a journalist.
Now. The big point, the weekly comments against the sewer at the BOS podium. THAT is where you might find it interesting to ask the probing questions Ann. Just what is THAT psychic payoff? How do you explain THAT behavior? Clearly you and some others say, "this sewer can't be stopped," but what is the silent end to that sentence? Do these people (and you) REALLY think that the project will magically morph into Linde's Step collection system with Ben's favorite MBR treatment (as long as it isn't the MWH version of MBR that Tri-W had!!!!)? Will the project change into one with years of delays like the last one? Our little blog comments are generated from armchair laziness. Getting dressed and driving to SLO to wait in the audience to repeat what you said last week at the BOS is our puny efforts times ten on steroids. That obsessive showing up is far more pathological than these words on blogs.
Do you support the words of these speakers at face value? What do you think those words will do? Change the minds of the Supes OR are those words to punish and scold. Talk about chewing on ankles! They define the term!
Payoff for me? Letting misinformation hang out there is troubling. Correcting mis- or providing missing information is my reason for writing here.
Consider this, Ann.
Look at what Lynette is saying and think to yourself, "Does anyone spend as much time talking and dwelling about others who disagree with the County's plans?"
Let's be real, here. The sewer is coming. We're reminded almost on a daily basis that it is, whether it's an article on The Tribune or Lynette blogging about it incessantly whenever the subject is even discussed.
What amazes me is that someone like Lynette has the tenacity to angrily criticize BOS speakers for, well, speaking. She often asks the question, "Why?" when the answer is clearly evident. The reason is simple: people strongly believe that the project is flawed. There are plenty of reasons to substantiate that belief. In Los Osos, we need to learn to coexist with all viewpoints.
The Sustainability Group's standpoint is basically, "Look, we did our homework. We tried to sit down and discuss what we thought were the issues, but you didn't respond to our concerns -- so we're moving forward with a revocation appeal." These folks do not go to the BOS week after week. These people put a lot of time and work into a discussion that really should be open-ended.
This discussion will not impede sewer progress. That's hysterical speculation coming from someone who has a long history of compulsively targeting "obstructionists" as a means of "countering the lies" or "correcting misinformation." Instead of trying to justify one's sewer obsession, we need to take a step back and be adults.
It's not our position to be the thought police, yet when people feel compelled to attack one "side," we need to tell them, "That's wrong." Because the rhetoric we're seeing from people like Lynette can make a bad situation worse. The sewer problem is already inflamed as is. Adding any more gasoline to the fire is irresponsible.
Toonces sez:"That obsessive showing up is far more pathological than these words on blogs."
Sane Anonnymouse sez: "What amazes me is that someone like Lynette has the tenacity to angrily criticize BOS speakers for, well, speaking. She often asks the question, "Why?" when the answer is clearly evident. The reason is simple: people strongly believe that the project is flawed. There are plenty of reasons to substantiate that belief.:"
There is a HUGE difference between what's said, ad naseum, from the podium at the BOS and the kind of sick, obsessive, repetitive ankle-chewing, circle-jerking, totally weird, nasty, bully-boy malin a few "Anonymous" people. You can read the above postings and easily separate out the "sane newbies" from the obsessive Sewer Crazies. It's like night and day.
My question remains: Really, how do you justify to yourself your obsessive compulsion for your ridiculous, juvenile fence fighting? The neener-neenerish quality of the postings, the amazing malice, the flat-out lies, again and again and again. Go back and count the number of times each of you crazies return to chew some more even, hour after hour, even though your comments do nothing but stoke your anger Grrr, grrr, grrrr, like fence fighting dogs who haven't got a clue what they're snarling over. They're snarling just for the sake of snarling. That is not "discussion" or "setting the record straight." That is pathology, plain and simple.
When I shifted the blog comment section to "open" and a whole bunch of Newbies showed up, the contrast was incredibly obvious. Those Newbies were actually trying to have a dialogue, a conversation, a debate, a discussion. Go above and re-read those 80-some postings and you can see exactly what I'm talking about.
My question remains for you compulsive sick Sewer Crazies. I'm sure you justify what you're doing to yourself at least. I'm curious what self-justificaiton you're using. Is it possible you are unaware how dysfunctional your behavior is?
It appears that you, Ann, are looking in your mirror while you try to justify your very own Sewer Crazy, dysfunctional, one view behaviour!
I step out the door and I find a brand new Motorcycle!!!
Ann!
I’m so excited. Thank you! Thank you Thankyou thankyu
Thankyuthankyou thankyuthankyuthankyuthankyuthankyu!!!!
Only…….
it’s not for me,
…..Aaaaand,
It’s not a Motorcycle.
What is it Then?
It is a reward for bad behavior to a troll who was already spent, and satisfied, and had snuck in the last word on the blog comment section.
Yes trolinham, or by your middle name, Kennny. We care about you and your opinions. You ARE Important to us. Yes we want to continue to discourse with you as you clearly have intellectual propensities and a vocabulary that is well above average elocutional measures. We welcome your urbane input. Your insights about Philosophy and Justice. Your superior omniscion over all that is, your determination of what is responsible behavior, your admonitions to adulthood.
Your opinion counts with us, even though we know that at 29 you haven't a Degree and you have never had a real job. We crave the measured tone of your Common Sense(TradeMark)
We don’t mind at all that if our words seem to anger you in the slightest, you will go into an enhanced passive aggressive mode and spawn anonims who will come onto the blogs with a mixture of horrible, yes, pathologic, insults and crafty lies. And should we point it out, your passive pedantic persona will then pathetically plead “Who ? Me?”.
Ann.
Remember the multiple phone calls? That was not on the comments pages.
The threats Ann? The email barrage? That is what he does to Blog moderators. Why do you think the Mods at CCN are anons?
He has done this before and he will do it again.
HE CAN’T STOP.
He actually tried. This isn’t the first blog where he’s done this, not the only blog he was banned from. He actually managed to get reinstated to a blog he was banned from 4 times, by doing grunt work for the blog master. And then... what do you think happened.
And you can't just address his "passive" side, this is not a dog who was abused and may be rehabilitated, with little snacks for good behavior reinforcement. He is wired to bite the hand that feeds it. He can't help it.
Even though at least one member of his family was once heavily invested in the Sewer wars, the trolling has nothing to do with the Sewer. And even though there are two other housemates, actual people posting, in collusion (Under pseudonyms “Lisa Klemp”= RU4Real Etc. etc.. etc…)
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEWER
And there are no cute cuddely newbies Ann, maybe one. It’s a couple of the old guard, probably one each from “Either side”for about 7 posts total. RL and maybe FS.
The total string was probably about a hundred before deletions.
And Toons YOU KNOW ----HE DOSN’T REPRESENT THE PEOPLE HE “STANDS UP FOR”, O. K maybe one. But they don’t post here. and the BOS commenter’s rarely post on the trib or CCN either.
DONT FEED THE TROLLS, Remember.. Three simple rules...
Just so you understand what dicipline is, I will only comment on this non sewer topic as Dr. Perlman.
My office will be sending an invoice.
Dr. Perlman.
Above is a clear illustration of your problem, Ann. A pathological liar who enjoys attacking people. Keep it up.
Alon, I have no idea who you are talking about. It appears as though you're creating an elaborate, fictional boogeyman of those who you think are the "anonymous."
You operate on a string of bizarre presumptions and conclude them as fact. That's more than "ankle-chewing." That's something you see a psychiatrist for. I often come across your posts here. They say, "Don't feed the trolls. Ignore the trolls," yet you'll write paragraph after paragraph, trying to elaborately identify who the "trolls" are.
Ann once said this about anonymous people: "Ignore them." It takes someone with average mental restraint and fortitude to not allow anonymous people to infiltrate their psyche. By going on and on about the people you say others should be ignoring, that says a lot about you, Alon, more than the demons you think are haunting you.
You're off base, and most of Los Osos agrees.
This giant mythical troll that Alon invented and keeps babbling incoherently about is obviously... Alon Pearlman.
I love the anons making pronounouncements on Alon. Put your name out there like he has the cuts to do!
Put your name out there like he has the cuts to do!
And he earned every one of those cuts -- including the self-inflicted ones.
Yup. Amazing.
Anyone happen to see this. Interesting.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2126007/Bill-Gates-funds-new-machine-filters-toilet-waste-drinkable-water.html
Sincerely, M
M! howya been old chum,
first that came to mind- Will he install several in his Redmond (?) Mega-home?
And how hard would it be to bottle it, after processing.
wouldn't that then make it "Mineral water?" after all every drop of water on earth was once pristine glacier water. It's all in the label.
And Hydrogen? Finally a fuel that makes my jet pack economical.
Brillient posting, smashing really.
Very clearly an "english" article, stylistically.
Ta "M", I'm off to spend a penny.
As usual Alon, I haven't a clue what your meaning is. Frankly, i'm surprised Sewertoons wasn't the first to respond with a "puhleeeze, don't bring up another system we should use" My thought was there is a lot of new technology these days and yet here we are, about to invest in a sludge producing, financially devastating project that may or may not do us any good. I figure Bill Gates has got a little bit on the ball, and so it might not be an idea to just throw to the curb. Re-thinking, invest is probably not the term I should have used. Investing would dictate a return on your investment. What we have is more like a penalty.
Sincerely, M
Welcome back M (unless you have already been back as one of the Anons of course....),
That was a fascinating article, thanks for the tip.
Computer problems kept me from being first to post, ha-ha. Of course I will be happy to respond but before that I want to say a thank-you to Ann here for indulging our sewer nuttiness.
Quote from the article,
"And the group stand to receive a further $1m from the Gates next year if they can demonstrate the chemical reactions they propose can actually work.
And that would be the basis for my comment. We have already explored what "new" technologies that are fundable right now. There is no doubt that some wonderful thing will emerge at some future and distant time. But just like we put up with physical stitches to sew together cuts and plaster casts for broken bones, not Star Trekkian hand-held devices to do those things, so it is with sewer technology. If we waited to find some perfect and cheap technology, we would be wading in urine bobbing with floaters and drinking very expensive Naci water from our new treatment plant and pipeline.
Our penalty now is the high price of this latest version due to kicking a solution down the road so far with our soccer shoes cleated in lawsuits and poor decision making. In 2015 we will finally have made it into the net.
Alon, I think "spend a penny" is the perfect quote for this blog!!
I honestly see no reason why Lynette is posting. This woman has no value to the community, none. She blogs all day, all night, arrogantly thinks she's speaking for the County - like who is the "we" she's talking about. "We have already explored what new technologies that are fundable right now." Like what business does she have in this? She has no dog in this fight. She doesn't care about homeowners. I've been a resident of Los Osos for over 30 years and a long time supporter of a wastewater project, and never have I seen such a psychotic individual.
To answer your question Anon 6:15, the varying technologies were explored at the many, many TAC meetings which the County held. I attended those meetings but perhaps you missed them, hence your lack of knowledge.
The dog that I have in this fight is that I live in Los Osos.
I'm sure the bloggers here care as deeply about your opinions as they do mine. But you have overused the phrase "psychotic individual."
Not to worry 'toons, that fool will never be happy with it's life or any sewer.
There are many of us who have also lived in Los Osos more than 60 years. We're pleased to finally see a real sewer being constructed, not some dream system.
We're tired of the type of attacks being made against you and those who support the County design. We're tired of the activists who really are bent on creating the most expensive sewer in the US. They had their chance and failed. We are moving forward and those activists have already started moving out of Los Osos. Maybe now the few still attacking will find this the time to follow.
Not to worry 'toons, that fool will never be happy with it's life or any sewer.
There are many of us who have also lived in Los Osos more than 60 years. We're pleased to finally see a real sewer being constructed, not some dream system.
We're tired of the type of attacks being made against you and those who support the County design. We're tired of the activists who really are bent on creating the most expensive sewer in the US. They had their chance and failed. We are moving forward and those activists have already started moving out of Los Osos. Maybe now the few still attacking will find this the time to follow.
I'll say it again. Lynette has no value in this community. It's really not about the sewer anymore. If the "sewer is coming," like she says it is every day somewhere on the net, why is she continuing to shout down people who express concern for it? I don't understand. Every day this goes on. Heck people are saying that she e-mails them and threatens to "stop them" for even showing up at the BOS. Really, Lynette. That's harassment. It's not about the sewer. I'm a long time supporter of the project, really any project as long as it's done right. I'm tired of your e-mails Lynette. Stop it. And take Paavo's Ave Maria with you to SLO and don't come back to Los Osos. You've been warned. Keep it up and you'll be kicked out of LO in no time.
Thank you Anon 8:23 AM, it is nice to see a supporting comment!
Anon 10:41 AM says, "Heck people are saying that she e-mails them and threatens to 'stop them' for even showing up at the BOS." and, "I'm tired of your e-mails Lynette."
You have chosen to write lies. That's on your soul and I feel sorry for you.
Go away, Lynette. Go live with Maria and her bratty drunk spawn. She's probably fucking the Easter bunny and telling everyone in the County that she's a HUGE supporter of Easter.
WOW. You certainly are a less than impressive Christian. Are you Ms. Tacker by chance? You seem to be quite knowledgeable of spawn
To: Anonymous 10:41 PM
You are one sick individual.
I am a witness to Lynette Tornatzky confronting and intimidating the Coopers at the CSD in July. Awful!!
You should consider leaving.
"I am a witness to Lynette Tornatzky confronting and intimidating the Coopers at the CSD in July. Awful!!"
Anonymous 4:47 PM, April 08, 2012
Now, nearly a year later this sicko continues a personal war Lynette? There have been plenty of confrontations with Bo, usually started by Bo's big mouth! There apparently wasn't much of a confrontation way back in July or the CSD would have jumped in, don't you think? Or was this just just more of the continual hate that even Ann encourages because the few didn't get their own personal way.
You are a very disturbed person and should move very soon!
The irony here is it's those who have gotten THEIR way and THEIR sewer who are the most abusive, the most violent, and exclusively practice the politics of oppression.
No one likes a sore winner, someone who develops a skin rash every time anyone mentions the thousands of residents forced out of town by THEIR sewer, those "obstructionists" they want to see pack up and leave quietly and quickly.
Maria was a fake and so is Lynette. These stooges have no place in our community. We will remind them of that every day they continue to pollute with their lies and venom... until they're swept out by the same big broom they've used on everybody else.
They're too shallow to understand how karma works. That inevitable collision is something many in the community look forward to as much as the Tornatzis look forward to their sewer.
It appears you are trying to justify your personal feelings rather than every heal the rift that was brought in by a sewer. It is only a sewer, yet you are ready to fight over what appears to be hurt feelings. You didn't get the sewer or non-sewer you personally wanted, but you are ready to fight and fight and fight. You are one big reason that the State took the sewer away from this community. You have no facts, no real plan, just plenty of anger. You lost, you cost us a bankruptcy, you only want to fight! It's over, you lost, either live with it or move before you have a heart attack. We are tired of you!
I'm amused that Lynette sends her anonymous dogs on here.
Anon 9:33,
What an odd assumption. Like she is the only person who has an opinion on the sewer?
Sorry, anon 5:18 AM. I'm not going anywhere. I'll be here to watch you and the rest of the trash follow Kelly out of town. In fact, I'll help you out just like I helped Maria. You'll thank me later for showing you the exit.
I'll change the subject here and do a quick report that only 284 signatures were gathered on that sewer protest petition, despite coverage by KSBY and Congalton. This is far less than the 2500+ that were gathered to dissolve the CSD. You may gather your own conclusions.
That the 2500+ who signed to dissolve were idiots like you?
And that the 284 who signed the sewer protest were smarter than the 2500+ who petitioned to dissolve the CSD because they didn't get Tri-W?
That you are a cancer in the community and dumber than who? Maria for sleeping with Paavo?
Who anointed you the town crier? I thought that was Al Barrow's job?
Draw your own conclusions.
All the pale white cow can do is hijack blogs with repetition.
The County designed waste water treatment system is coming and the 254 can't do a damn thing about it! It's a done deal.
Dear 5:11,
Of the 254 you speak, several don't live in the County SLO, several signed for nostalgic reasons, a couple have completely forgotten that they signed it, and none are posting here. It is only an online petition.
Similarly, and to others; The individuals J.T and her family or B.C. and his, are not posting here. I can say this with confidence because I have been in temporary possession of the keys to the internet since Thursday.
This episode appears to be bothering you, 5:11. Please understand, we have studied this phenomenon extensively, it has nothing to do with your sewer. It is what is known as Commenthorrea nervatica manifesting as a Blogwar.
This particular manifestation started in January 2010. By which time many similar postings had taken place. The individuals involved were no longer living in the county at the time, there was an outbreak here in late ’08, but this has been going on since ’05, and it primarily did have something to do with the sewer then, at least in content.
We see from your I.P. code, that you are living near the internet service area of Baywood, we recommend the Elfin Forest Boardwalk, as a particularly suited activity for early morning strolls. Watch for the Elves!
Well, the Internet backbone office is open by now. Time to hand back the keys.
Wrong! It ain't a done deal until the retards Reilly and Tornatsky slink out of town from shame!
Alon, again, makes no sense. Just for your information, I was the one who posted at 6:14 PM and 10:41 AM. I am not Julie Tacker. I am not Jeff Edwards. I am not Bo. However, I am a resident of Los Osos and live right in the heart of Baywood.
To be honest, I've paid no attention to these blogs until recently. Then I came across a few of Ann's articles. Amazing.
You have Lynette Tornatzky, who has a documented history of stalking, cyberstalking, cyberharassment, making threats to the "anti-sewer obstructionists," encouraging other people to threaten and berate the "anti-sewer obstructionists" and create this shitstorm of hate based entirely on her ignorance and hatred for anyone and everyone who calls the project like it is.
Then you have Alon Perlman, a know-nothing alcoholic, schizophrenic "environmentalist" fraud who obviously has this weird thing for one of the local bloggers who deleted his comments from a site. He's called me, e-mailed me, telling me to not read some newspaper. I don't care. I want nothing to do with him. I heard he got booted from LOCAC for being a creep and look at him. He's acting it out for everyone to see.
Both of these people are absolute trash. They were taken out, and that's why they're here. Ann is kind enough to process recycled trash.
Just so you know, the sewer we all want is coming inspite of this blog and all the wonderful folks who parade in front of the CSD and the BOS and the Water Board.
Thanks for all you have done to help us all spend our money to have a sewer out of town.
Wrong again, sewer turkey! The sewer is NOT coming! Not until it's IN the ground is it HERE!
Thanks to ALL for all you have done and will continue to do to MAKE SURE the sewer is either delayed or STOPPED, no matter WHAT it takes.
No matter WHAT.
To clarify;
The Dr. Perlman Clinic is not accepting new patients at this time.
In most cases where patients are accepted to the clinic, it is by specialist referral only.
On rare occasions, Dr. Perlman himself has taken on extremely low profile cases on a pro bono basis.
Most patients at the Dr. Perlman Clinic and Sanatorium are treated and receive therapy by licensed mental therapy clinicians operating under the direction and guidance of Dr. Perlman.
Existing patients of multiple personality disorder, who have developed additional personalities, must first register their additional personalities with their insurance carrier, before seeking treatment.
This is a message from the Dr. Perlman Clinic front desk. The clinic is now closed.
If you have a mental health emergency, please dial 911.
Anon 5:16 PM, now we see that this wasn't about the cost, just about having a sewer at all. But we will get one this time. Each wave of price increases causes more of your neighbors to leave. Is that really OK with you and why?
Anon 7:52. Wrong yet again.
"Each wave of price increases causes more of your neighbors to leave."
This is a false premise to begin with. The sewer is already too expensive. Too many have to leave. It's best if the project is stopped and we start over with a better project.
Hopefully they'll get it right next time. This is my position, and it's the right position for the vast majority of the community, if not for you.
You'll just have to sacrifice and pay less next sewer. Honestly, you can manage that, can't you?
Sounds like that nutcase A-8:00 PM does not live in Los Osos.
Anon 8:00 PM, given that the populace is not interested in Step, given that you are circumventing any sort of democratic input, just what is your "new" plan and how do you justify the costs we have incurred on the present project AND the last project which we are paying already and will have to pay back?
and the backruptcy because the CSD had no plan.
I am not a STEP absolutist. The democratic process was circumvented by the county when they dropped alternatives. We will return to the design-bid process abandoned by the county. Current costs have been an enormous public waste and that's unfortunate, but that's the costs of doing business with the county when costs are inflated almost double their necessary value. The new sewer will cost considerably less and absorb much of the excess cost pumped up the county. Did you see the inflated numbers for the archeological dig? It's really disgusting how they are ripping off Osos. Don't you care about the almost doubled cost of the project? Don't you look at price tags when you make a major purchase? Not everyone has Lou's salary. In fact, less than 1% of the community earns Lou's salary. If you've done the math then the impact of this sewer should be clear to you.
If it's not, then you are justifying a sewer that 6 people can afford, and your position is untenable from a community standpoint.
Anonymous said...
Sounds like that nutcase A-8:00 PM does not live in Los Osos.
8:05 PM, April 10, 2012
Sounds like the nutcase directly above lives in Osos. Tragic.
Anon 10:05 AM, uhhh, exactly WHO is "we?"
Who are you polling to agree to this stoppage? Not that sad "change.org" petition that garnered all of 284 signatures I hope! The revocation request holds no guarantees. The threat of a lawsuit to stop the restoration of Tri-W is laughable.
What then is your "democratic process" to stop the sewer project? Your post above seems to say you favor democracy - but you show us nothing, just what you as a renegade threaten to do. You haven't laid out even as much of a non-plan as the Lisa Board did!
You think the County is just going to stop what they are doing and agree to do your "plan?"
Your points are well taken, Mrs. T. I'm not part of the petition. I have a connection to the revocation, but I am also a realist.
No need to poll. I'm surrounded by the only "poll" necessary -- my neighbors. I have three neighbors, two with families. None of them will be able to stay. That's 14 people.
I laid out a clear plan -- back up to April 2009. Insert design-bid for any and all, gravity and non-gravity. Take it from there. Cost will determine the system, not Paavo, not Pandora, not the BOS.
I don't consider myself a renegade. My neighbors don't think so, and no, the county won't stop to accommodate me. I don't expect them to. Then again they don't expect me to stop the sewer.
Just remember: The sewer is not in the ground yet, and where there's a will there's a way. So don't fall asleep at the blogger's wheel.
Pandora? What does she have to do with any of this? She has been out of the picture for ages, so apparently you are out of touch.
Isn't it just a tad arrogant to assume things? Three neighbors, while it is sad for them, do not a democracy make. You are setting up your own little sewer insurgency, the rest of us be damned.
You are also making the assumption that cost was the only determiner for the type of collection system. What is your strategy for changing people's minds? Gravity the second time around won't be any cheaper, especially if we lose the financing that we already have.
So, where is your financing going to come from? What agency will take the lead? AB2701 gives the sewer authority to the County, so while you say, "the county won't stop to accommodate me," actually, they would have to.
Please enlighten your readers what this "clear plan" is and where we can read it. You sure haven't said much here.
Sadly, you think YOUR WILL is the way. It would be prudent to get several thousand others at the very least to agree with you.
Yes, you're right, I have set up my own little sewer insurgency, the rest of you (not us) be damned. Being an insurgency I do not have to change people's minds, only act on their behalf. This is how the system works anyway.
You and I know gravity couldn't survive, and, yes, we would lose current financing (which, by the way, is still not secure as USDA has issues like Coastal has issues.) So stop counting the county's money it doesn't have yet.
Future financing becomes less an issue when gravity is excluded, since there are few if any grants for gravity. Why do you think the USDA loan was so vital? Where was the money going to come from to pay for this gravity sewer? Nowhere.
Several thousand people already do agree with me. They are the ones your sewer is forcing out of town. I know you have only been living in Los Osos since 2005. It is easier for you not to care, or even laugh at them, because you have no roots here and do not know any of the people who have to leave.
"Every time Lynette posts, take a shot!"
Looks like Alon got a 30-year head start on that game.
Let's see a Anon 6:09 PM, you seem to be saying that insurgency is OK because people are too stupid to act on behalf of themselves. The "system" you refer to is an oligarchy, not a democracy.
You are presuming to speak for the property owners that have agreed to assess themselves to pay for the project. You don't.
Insurgency aside, please explain your idea for future financing.Who would have the money to finance this even if it was STEP? Are you talking about private financing? Absurd interest rates. Financing where someone else owns the water reclaimed? Gee, I guess we'd need to vote on that. But you don't seem to like that idea.
What about AB2701? You still haven't answered who the lead agency would be, you? The LOSG? How do you get the County to "step" away, as it were?
What I care about is obstructionists making each iteration of a project more expensive. I'm sad that the project , which would have been $84.6 million in 2001 is now over double that. That obstructionism has caused many more people to leave, don't you think?
So, how do you plan to get the County out of the picture?
No, no, people aren't stupid. They are, however, too trusting and mistaken about relying on others to do their talking for them.
Property owners "agreed" to be taxed under certain specified conditions which where not met, and under threat of fines. Is that the democracy you allude to? If so, you must have lived under a dictatorship at one time to believe this is a democracy.
You're financing scenarios are out of whack since higher interest rates on a lower cost profit is a big savings over not-that-low interest rates on the most expensive project with the unknown final costs passed onto homeowners as rates & charges. So you have to put that in perspective. The charges are never-ending.
I understand your concern about "iterations" but that only applies to gravity, not lower-cost options, so you don't have to worry about increased costs. The 2001 project had no ceiling (like this project) and with MWH's reputation we can't pin a closed figure such as $84.6 million on Tri-W. It could have doubled. We'll never know.
No, stoppage of the 2001 sewer caused no one to leave Los Osos. That's the point. Stoppage of this project will cause no one to leave Los Osos. Simply by changing the project, not eliminating it.
How can this be accomplished in such a short period of time? There is only one way: door to door.
Anon 8:34 PM, property owners agreed to assess themselves, the conditions were very clear, and we did pass the assessment: that is democracy, or more exactly, the rules of a 218 were followed, no lawsuits were won. Not everyone felt that they were under the threat of fines either, you exaggerate.
You still haven't made any attempt to tell me where the financing is going to come from, or your cost estimates. Do you really think you're going to go door to door and not have that information? How about the County? What will you tell people as to who will be running the project? How do you plan on buying the Giacomazzi property if the County isn't involved? Eminent domain by - who - you?
You had better hurry though with your door-to-door idea, the project we have now starts in July!
No, I don't think I exaggerate at all. It's a commonly held opinion in my circles that 218 law was not followed and that deception and threats were used to coerce the vote. So while you are right about the 218 passing and its authority, many agree that the benefits not only remain unproven but, once again, are undemocratically applied to only a portion of the community when the entire community benefits. In fact, the entire County and State benefit -- where is their fair share????
I thought I told you public/private financing. Cost estimates are not estimates but fixed. Land is no problem. Yes, we have to hurry! By the way, we know where you live and won't be going to your place after what you did to our website!!!!
"It's a commonly held opinion in my circles that 218 law was not followed and that deception and threats were used to coerce the vote." OK, but not in mine. What makes yours more valid than mine?
You still won't answer. Who is the lead in this scenario that you paint? What is the fixed cost and who says so? What land are you talking about? The more specific my questions, the more vague you get. Gee, I think your whole door-to-door idea is going to be a big, fat flop.
What website?
Nothing makes my opinion more valid than yours. I hope it's more convincing than yours, though. You are good to practice on.
The county may be forced to reconsider. That's all. Yes, I get vaguer the more specific you are. I don't see any reason to be specific since you report to Kelly.
You said 284 names on an online petition weren't enough, and you are right. I don't discount the odds. I'm not bragging or promising anything. I simply believe that my neighbor is my brother and I am my brother's keeper. I guess that makes me an "obstructionist" of biblical proportions.
I do feel sad for you. There is nothing to stop this project and you so want it to for decent reasons. This IS expensive. But it is far too late to do anything about which project to build.
The time wasted on trying to stop this project would be better spent on urging the County to find more grants and on organizing neighborhoods to band together to figure out how to help each other with on-lot costs. That would be biblical. A lot of energy and brain power is being squandered on a one-in-a-ten-million gamble and that's just Las Vegas fantasy.
It's troubling that there are people who instill blind faith into institutions like the County, who previously put Prohibition Zone residents in a chokehold by permitting septic tanks in a densely populated area.
Definition by Adler
"We should not be astonished if in the cases where we see an inferiority [feeling] complex we find a superiority complex more or less hidden. On the other hand, if we inquire into a superiority complex and study its continuity, we can always find a more or less hidden inferiority [feeling] complex."[2]
"If a person is a show-off it is only because he feels inferior, because he does not feel strong enough to compete with others on the useful side of life. That is why he stays on the useless side. He is not in harmony with society. It seems to be a trait of human nature that when individuals - both children and adults - feel weak, they want to solve the problems of life in such a way as to obtain personal superiority without any admixture of social interest. A superiority complex is a second phase. It is a compensation for the inferiority [feeling] complex."[3]
"The superiority complex is one of the ways which a person with an inferiority complex may use as a method of escape from his difficulties. He assumes that he is superior when he is not, and this false success compensates him for the state of inferiority which he cannot bear. The normal person does not have a superiority complex, he does not even have a sense of superiority. He has the striving to be superior in the sense that we all have ambition to be successful; but so long as this striving is expressed in work it does not lead to false valuations, which are at the root of mental disease.
Most bibles are proportioned; one inch thick, six inches tall and four wide.
Common Sense, I don't think the people inhabiting County positions now are too thrilled with the decisions made by those who inhabited those positions earlier. In fact, why wouldn't they really resent them for making their lives so miserable? The County of now would never let this happen now!
Dr. Perlman, a very insightful analysis. In other words, you nailed it!
An editing note; those who post anon. cannot change their posts.
Alon's explanation of his psychosis is commendable. Confession is good for the soul. I hope this is the start of positive change for him. As a lifelong liar and pedophile, rehabbing his sordid reputation could wipe away his mother's tears and give hope to the terminally hopeless. But I doubt it.
Oh cut the crap Anon 10:12 AM.
Only when you cut the crap, Sewertoons... but you can't help yourself, can you? Practice what you blog, hypocrite, or move.
I'm not potty mouthing anyone, but I guess that went right over your head.
Why don't you have a backbone and post as yourself instead of hiding behind "Anon," 10:22?
I have sense enough not to put my name up here and be stalked and harassed by you! Do you think people like being chased and bothered by the smack-blogging Tornatski's and your hit dogs Alon and Reilly? Give me a break!
You have the "backbone" to use your name but not the "headbone" to grow up and act your age. So what good is "backbone" when you have a bad name in the live you live?
I mean, you're not the brightest lightbulb in the pack and you seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands, don't you think? What are you going to do when the sewer comes? Knit????
I am sooo glad the County sewer is finally coming so this BS blog can go back to gardening and poetry.
Like Anons on blogs who make accusations such as "stalk" or "harass" are actually believed by ANYONE except for like-minded potty mouthers.
When Anon bloggers don't like AN OPINION from anyone on here or on other blogs, they will shout down that person with name calling and false accusations. That's just so middle school, yet you seem not to grasp that.....
Hi 'Toons... Been awhile, but have a few minutes to see what was going on over here...
You are correct, there are the same ones still trying to intimidate inorder to force their myopic views on the community... SOS, nothing's changed... Same couple of folks who won't ever get over the County constructing the sewer system for us...
You may be wasting your breath with those few... The sewer will be built starting this summer...!!!
.......Mike
Just mention the braindead Reilly/Berrier dreamer zombies and they appear!
"When Anon bloggers don't like AN OPINION from anyone on here or on other blogs, they will shout down that person with name calling and false accusations. That's just so middle school, yet you seem not to grasp that....."
Lynette, you're again obviously talking about yourself. Very insightful how you constantly expose yourself to the truth about you! LOL.
Name one false accusation against you. You won't and can't dispute FACTS.
You stalk and harass and send out the zombie clones as proof. You are so guilty and everyone knows it except you!!!!
There's just a few of you community saboteurs, but you have been well exposed and must pay the price.
All of the accusations are false and not based in fact. But you won't take my word for it of course.
The "price" we pay Anon 1:11 PM, is the price of reading your words on the various blogs.
Mike! So nice to hear from you - it has been a while and if I read up far enough, I would have answered you first!
Yes! The sewer will start this summer and it is apparently driving some people crazy!
How can I take your word for anything when it's just your assertion of innocence versus your own printed and spoken words -- and, worse, actions? You never respond other than cry wolf.
Sorry, I don't blog on other blogs. That's just another blind assumption on your part, which makes you a bad guesser and an unreliable witness.
If I were you I'd be paranoid, too.
Dear Ms. Tornatzki. Thank you for your kind comment.
Here is additional Adler Quote for you;
This is responsible for the misconception that those with an inferiority complex are meek and mild, but the complex is not defined by the behavior of the individual but by the self-image of the individual. Not that a person with a superiority complex will not express their superiority to others, only that they do not feel the need to do so. They may speak as if they are all-knowing and better than others. But ultimately they do not care if others think so or not, and will not care if others tell them so. They simply won't listen to, and don't care about, those who disagree. In this regard, it is much alike the cognitive bias known as Illusory superiority.[6] This is juxtaposed to an inferiority complex where if their knowledge, accuracy, superiority or etc. is challenged, the individual will not stop in their attempts to prove such things until the dissenting party accepts their opinion (or whatever issue it may be). Again this is another reason that those with inferiority complexes are often mistaken for having superiority complexes when they must express and maintain their superiority in the eyes of others. Many fail to recognize that this is a trait of low self-opinion who care deeply about the opinion of others, not of those who feel superior and have high-self esteem and do not care at all about the opinion of others.
The Clinic’s Public relations office, will, from time to time, release material for edification and entertainment. Much as you may find a current edition of “Vogue” magazine, in the lobby of an eating disorders clinic. Our release of materials is however directed under the specific procedures and guidelines laid down to us, by our founder Dr. Perlman. This commonly includes excerpts from classic publications in psychology, psychotherapy and the medical arts.
Dr. Alfred Adler (February 7, 1870 – May 28, 1937), of whose work, you read an excerpt, formed his theories over one hundred years ago. Some of his work is now considered foundational. The Dr. Perlman Clinic and staff use the most current approved modern techniques and methodologies.
In this specific instance, we hope you found the materials useful in developing insight, as you strive for your own excellence as a contributing member of the society in which you live.
We do caution individuals; that analyzing other peoples extreme behavior, or labeling them according to idiottypical manifestations, is best left to licensed professionals, who are trained in a specific appropriate discipline.
We would like to enter your comment for our records, would you kindly provide the spelling of your town; Is it “Los Osos” or “Los Egos”?
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