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Saturday, December 16, 2006

No, thank you, I don’t need to stab myself in the eyeballs with an ice pick for eight hours. I’m spending that time sitting here at the RWQCB “trial” of The Los Osos 45 instead.

DAY ONE

It’s getting truly difficult to find the right words to describe what the Regional Water Quality Control Board and Staff are doing nowadays. Stupid? Incompetent? Indifferent? Pointless? Counterproductive? Appalling? Ridiculous? Sadistic?

Take the December 14 & 15, 2006 hearings where the first item on the agenda was to consider the PROPOSED “settlement” agreement crafted by The New Grand Inquisitor, Reed Sato, and about half of the Los Osos 45 who, at that point, had agreed to sign on. It was item #3 and I filled out a speaker card to comment on the PROPOSED settlement, you know, like Mr. Sato presents the agreement, the Board takes comments, then discusses and votes on whether or not to accept it as written or add critically missing stuff and send it back for re-negotiation, you know, like things that people might bring up during the comment period that need to be addresses so the agreement can be even better, or seriously look at items in the agreement that will cause real problems to the Board or staff or citizens down the road, you know, things that might have been overlooked since the negotiations were cut short by the Board so they could go ahead with this Public Beheading of The Los Osos 45 even though they and Mr. Sato were sooooooo close to a total win-win with a more considered settlement that could have avoided these ridiculous, wasteful hearings altogether?

So, the Board listens to Mr. Sato, brings up some concerns of their own, then votes. No public comment. Thanks for coming, shut up and go away, our minds are made up. Yes, we can see that there’s some real problems with this agreement, but we don’t care, let’s sign on rather than clean things up now, and if there’s problems down the pike, Oh, well, we’ll think about that tomorrow, and, Aw, gee, maybe we can improve things in the next round of agreements, Now, get the tumbrels here, let the public beheadings commence!

Would you call that kind of approach to a huge issue Stupid? Maybe that it showed a clear lack of foresight? Indifference? I think the word “amazing,” should get in the mix. Amazing that you had a Board and Staff that created and allowed to continue an appalling set of very poor decisions, [issuing CDOs to a whole community, clearly the wrong blunt instrument to use], let this original bad decision made by [CEO Roger]Briggs compound and grow, thereby wasting time and resources. Oh, and don’t forget we had the appalling observation that, while they’ve wasted gazillions on these “trials,” the first of which crashed and burned, they were “too poor” to afford a mediator. And now, they “run out of time” to really negotiate a great settlement, one that would save them even more time and money, so they can move to a totally unnecessary “show trial,” which, of course wastes more money?

What words can you possibly use to describe such behavior. I’m at a loss.

Certainly “embarrassment,” came to mind as the Show Trial & Public Beheading Portion of this Gong Show continued. Acute embarrassment for the staff, who once again had to sit there and get grilled and keep answering, “I don’t know, Uh, no, don’t know, Uh, no we have no evidence of nitrate discharges under Mrs. X’s property, no we don’t have any soil readings, no, no studies showing the nitrate ratio benefits to our Mad Pumping Scheme, no, there are no isotope studies linking septic tank X with groundwater pollution Y, No, no studies liking Property X with groundwater pollution, No, don’t know, uh, no never heard of that, uh, . . . . .”

Or changing their answers. For example, when Several Accused asked staff what evidence they had that property X was polluting the groundwaters of the state of California, the Chair and/or staff huffily replied that that’s NOT what was being charged, only to have the front page of their own CDO document read back to them and there it was, that pesky phrase. It wasn’t only, Are you guilty of “discharging?” but polluting the groundwaters & etc. Did pointing that out change anything? Not a bit of it. That would be a material fact and material facts in this public beheading had no place.

Even scarier, the Board apparently was unaware that these CDOs that they were issuing carried with them the clearly stated possibility (clearly stated in the RWQCB’s own documents) of criminal penalties, not just civil liabilities. When that was pointed out, the subject was changed or that clearly stated possibility was airily dismissed as speculation or some totally inconceivable far flung future possibility that certainly need not concern the Board now, so Move Along! Move Along! PAY NO ATTENTION TO THOSE PESKY BUNCH OF WORDS BEHIND THE CURTAIN!

[On day two, you had the utterly wonderful spectacle of people tried and beheaded in absentia, people who never bothered to return all the reams of paperwork sent to them at all, people for whom the Prosecution Staff had NO information, no statements, no response, no material facts, nothing, yet they were found guilty of polluting the waters of the State of California and beheaded. Case closed!]

Countering some of this weirdness was Mr. Murphy, the CSD’s attorney, who pointed out that using general, overall groundwater contamination studies collectively to require governmental clean up, collectively, is a legally valid tool. BUT, for individuals, using the collective model violates all their due process rights and presumption of innocence. He likened what the Board is trying to do with the individual CDOs on citizens living within the Prohibition Zone like the Highway Patrol issuing speeding tickets to a random number of people who just happened to be driving by a portion of the freeway where they had collective evidence of speeding. So, drive past that point on a given day and, ka-boom, you get a ticket, even though there is no evidence you were speeding, you just happened to be driving by that particular stretch of road. What are the chances that such a ticketing scheme would hold up in a “real” court? So, why is this “kangaroo court” forcing citizens to go through this song-and-dance when the whole sham may well be tossed out, but only, of course, after everyone – including the RWQCB—has spent and wasted big bucks?

Is “pointless” the word I’m looking for here?

But there the Board sat. Nobody said, “You know, ol Roger Briggs, who’s now out sailing somewhere far out of reach of any subpoenas, dropped us in this mess when he lost it and started up with this truly ill-considered Mad Pumping CDO Scheme even before the recall had been certified, even before the CSD and the State Water Board stopped the project, and so we didn’t want to lose face and look like idiots, so we didn’t know what else to do but just kept plodding down this wrong road because we couldn’t think of anything else to do. But now, we got our new Grand Inquisitor here and he’s one smart cookie who believes, as all really smart litigators do, in Settlements! Settlements! Settlements!, so instead of continuing down this wasteful path – remember, we’re POOR! We can’t even hire a mediator – let’s stop right here, put these Public Beheadings on hold, send Sato back to the community to work on this settlement agreement so they’ll answer some real concerns we all have, then come back for another look-see. We could avoid this whole awful, wasteful, stupid process altogether and let the community and our staff concentrate on making sure the County can deliver a great project that the community will support.”

Did that happen? Nope. Now, what’s a good word to describe that sort of obtuse behavior? Stubborn? Stupid? So many choices available, smart choices, yet the Board kept plodding down the same swampy road to nowhere complaining that their feet are wet.

Pleeeeze, pleeeeze, gimme a word here to describe that.

And while you’re at it, maybe you want to run some numbers? By the end of day two, about 27 people signed settlement agreements, an unknown number of the remaining 45 were tried and beheaded in absentia and the rest had their hearings postponed until possibly next month. It took most of the day to “try” and convict about 6-7 people. That leaves about 4,500 ++ left. Let’s presume half of those settle, now we’re down to about 2,300. If each “trial” takes about 15 minutes each, and the Board spends 1-2 days a month just on this issue alone, how many years will it take to process those 2,300?

DAY TWO

Unnnhhh, mmmmm, ooooOOOOO, OH, UH, Arrrggguuugg, Urrrnnn, Oh Plueeeeeeze Mummy, Make The Pain & Nausea Stop, Make Those Awful Men Go Away, Uhnnn, ohhhhh ….

Several interesting lines of inquiry and/or testimony on Day Two and another of those jaw-dropping, gape-mouth moments:

First, testimony by Tim Cleath of Cleath & Associates (The Main Water Guys). Will the requirements of the settlement and/or CDOs that every resident pump, inspect and repair their septic systems as a short-term interim, reasonable mitigation (as stated in the RWQCB’s CDO documents as justification for the CDO) have any effect on the groundwater in Los Osos?

NO. No benefit to the water quality for this sort term. Installing a community-wide wastewater system will have a benefit to the upper aquifer, but it will take possibly 40 years to be realized.

Next interesting question of Mr. Cleath involved connecting well testing numbers to specific properties. Per Mr. Cleath, well tests were NOT designed to indicate what groundwater conditions were like a block away, that there had to be strong caveats in making claims that well data is linked to specific septic systems. (Exactly the assertions made by the RWQCB’s case: If you live within the prohibition zone, you are polluting the groundwaters of the state of California, period, end of sentence, exactly what Mr. Cleath, The Water Guy, warns against doing.)

And here’s the jaw dropping moment:

At several points in the proceeding, while the staff took time to clean the guillotine between each public beheading, it became clear that the Board was UNAWARE that The County HAD NOT officially taken on the wastewater project, they were UNAWARE that the target dates they were planning on putting in their foregone conclusion-CDOs were not yet “real,” that the dates they were using as triggers for further enforcement, dates that put real people in real peril of fines and possibly losing their homes, were also NOT real.

It was suggested that a prudent course of action was to continue with issuing these CDOs [legal and binding documents by any definition],but hold formally turn-keying them in final form until the County could actually give the Board REAL dates and numbers.

DENIED!. Instead, they guestimated at what they thought might be real dates and just plugged those in instead. Why ruin a great bloody show with, uh, actual “real” facts?

Verdict first! Evidence later! More tea! More tea! Move down! Move down!

And then there was this very interesting line of questioning by CDO recipient # 1034 of the Staff:

What proof do you have that less harsh methods (than a CDO) wouldn’t have worked?

None.

What proof do you have you couldn’t achieve interim compliance with just a letter to the residents?

None.

What proof do you have that I [#1034] won’t cease discharge or hook up to a wastewater system when one comes on line?

No proof.

And so forth. Clearly, the staff and the Board had a variety of methods to get the residents to “pump, inspect, repair,” including their own Resolution 32-12, passed years ago. They could have done something I suggested last year: Send notification letters to residents to comply and offer proof of interim compliance (pump, inspect, repair) and if you don’t, then we’ll issue CDOs on those who don’t comply. Very simple.

They could have invited Mr. Sato to craft an interim Clean Up & Abatement “settlement agreement,” send it out to all the residents and those who signed on wouldn’t get CDOs, those who didn’t, well, that was their choice.

They could have, as requested a year ago by the CSD, worked to turnkey a Septic Management District, as outlined in their own Resolution.

In short, they had many tools in their box. They had ample opportunity to re-think what they were doing, change direction, and yet they alone CHOSE to use the CDOs. Which prompted my constant question, Why? What words could you use to describe such action, such choices?

Finally, by Day Two I had my answer. The word I was looking for was this: Claimed Victimhood Via Faux Disingenuous Mendacity.

Of all the creeping horrors of watching the incompetent bumbling and unnecessary cruelty and waste that has gone on for a whole year, yesterday was the apex of it all, an apex that clearly illuminated the problem and the game here.

Quote of the day: [Since 1988, . . . “the [RWQCB]Board has patiently waited for something to happen. . .” said Board member Mr. Press, utterly ignoring the fact that the Board was the ONLY player in the room that had all the power to MAKE “something happen,” yet for years did nothing.

This neurasthenically weak and weepy observation of faux victimhood by the only people in that room WITH real power was followed throughout the day-long beheadings by blandly disingenuous statements from other Board members as to how helpless they were, how they hated issuing CDOs to poor old sick people, residents they knew full well were powerless to build a sewer plant on their own, how unfortunate it all was, how terrible it made them feel, but they had no choice, they could do nothing else, they were helpless.

It was a true Uriah Heep moment, utterly nauseating in its self-blinded mendacity.

Worse to come was when a CDO recipient, after presenting his case but before the GUILTY verdict could fall, after pleadings from his wife, decided to sign the “settlement agreement,” but stated he was doing so “under duress.”

This patently obvious, blatantly, blindingly clear and truthful observation caused the Board members to recoil in faux horror – Duress? DURESS? Why, we’re shocked – SHOCKED – that you could possibly think we’re coercing you into signing anything. No, no, we’re horrified that you would think that. True, you’ve just watched as one after another our verdicts have been raining down like a metronome’s beat – GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY –but we’re genuinely hurt and shocked that you would think that in your case, --which, by the way, you have a minute or two to agree to sign before we withdraw the offer and render our verdict –that our verdict won’t be the same as all the others. How could you possibly think this? No, no, we can’t let you sign that agreement if you feel you’re under duress. No, we must make sure that you’re signing that agreement of your own free will, that you WANT to sign that agreement, that you confess to us that it isn’t “duress” you’re feeling. So, may we suggest that, perhaps, if you used the word “disgust” or maybe say you’re signing while holding your nose, or say you think the agreement ”stinks” but you’re signing it anyway, but duress? Never, never, perish the thought.

AH, the Grand Inquisitor Moment, the auto-de-fe, the ritual kissing of the sacred relics, the confession tearfully but “freely” made, before being consigned to the flames.

All presided over by the saddened Bishops who were helpless to do other than they were doing, but who took comfort in the knowledge that although their victim’s body was claimed by the fire, his soul had been saved.

And as to the question of Why? To me, there are two clear answers: First, as Mr. Cleath made clear, the interim mitigation required of the CDOs will do nothing, but it does have the beneficial effect of making it appear that “something is being done,” thereby allowing the RWQCB to claim that, after years of doing nothing, see? We’re doing something over here. Never mind that it’s not effective on the waters of the State of California. That’s not the point; Appearance is the point.

But finally, at their heart, the CDO’s are the heavy hammer that is being used to force the residents of Los Osos to vote in the way that the RWQCB wants them to vote. Is that illegal electioneering? Voter coercion? Misuse and abuse of power? Duress?

Why, we’re shocked – SHOCKED – that you would even think such a thing.

97 comments:

Anonymous said...

So Ann, how do you really feel? Don't hold back like you just did.
It truly is unbelievable what is going on. If people outside the community could take some time and think about what we our faced with in reality, our bad reputation might look a little different.
I know I keep going back to it, but 23 years of no mitigation to alleged septic tank pollution, and then coming down with an asinine scheme like this.
We are no different than any other people that when we feel we are being unjustly treated, we will fight back. Actually I think we ought to be honored for holding off the dragon as long as we have.
Sincerely, M

Anonymous said...

"Thanks for coming, shut up and go away, our minds are made up."

I can remember a long time ago going before the current CSD during public comment when the issue of stopping construction at Tri-W and losing the SRF loan was being discussed. There were HUGE ramifications at stake, among them the loss of this important loan and the very real possibility of fines and CDO's, as had been warned by the RWQCB. Many other people spoke many times pleading not to stop the project. And every one walked away feeling like the board was saying: "Thanks for coming, shut up and go away, our minds are made up."

Now? What a freakin' mess. What an AVOIDABLE freakin' mess. And you can blame the RWQCB all you want Ann. And you have some damn good points. But I say thanks Julie and Lisa. Thanks sewer-as-religion fanatics who lied to an uninfored community. And thanks to the 51.3% of the people who voted for this nightmare. This CSD should have thought about dissolving themselves about 400 days ago. They would have spared all of us a lot of hardship and a lot of added costs to our sewer bill.

Anonymous said...

yes, and i remember for months on end, month after month, citizens pleading 8,9,10-1 at CSD meetings to the former recalled in disgrace CSD board that we didn't want a sewer in the center of our town and NOT TO START THE PROJECT. Hmmmmmmmm, I wonder why they were recalled? If we don't start it, we don't have to stop it. The real failure lies in the fact that the former recalled idiots didn't work with the Community on developing a project the Community could get behind and support. Developing a project that only half the people supported was a very, very bad idea and it cost us millions. If they hadn't of swindled us with their lie of Cheaper, Better, Faster, we would all be hooked up right now to a out of town County project and be paying about $50-70/month. Thanks solutions group/save the dream/taxpayers waste/assholes.

Shark Inlet said...

I guess an interesting question comes to mind because of the last two comments. Had the pre-Recall board simply not started construction before the vote and the post-Recall board lived up to their promises to not build at TriW ... would things be much different now at all with regard to the CDOs?

On a related matter, Ann, while Cleath says there won't be an immediate improvement in water quality in the aquifer we all know damn well that water quality will increase. If you stop pissing in your drinking water, your drinking water will (over time) become more water and less piss. Furthermore, the construction of a WWTF will allow us to (if we want to protect our lower aquifer) draw water from the upper aquifer instead of the lower aquifer ... stemming saltwater intrusion entirely if we want.

It is far too easy to blame others for various things. I keep wondering, however, what would Dr. Phil say. I suspect it would be something like "would you rather be right or be happy?". This idea would suggest that we should start to focus on the question of what is the best thing to do next. I suspect that if we lobby the County to start a project ASAP, they could lobby the RWQCB to put the "drop dead deadline" of 2011 on hold while the project is proceeding. In other words, the way we can best help our friends and neighbors and ourselves is to stop arguing with the County over every issue ... to stop the lawsuits and other maneuvers designed to delay the construction of a WWTF.

Ron said...

AWESOME report, Ann.

A word to describe the CDO mess? This one jumps to my mind:
REE-DICK-YOU-LUSS!

Good God, what's going on here? When it comes to Los Osos, these government agencies just can't seem to do anything right. From the Coastal Commission in 1998, and the RWQCB in 1999 - 2000, to the County and the RWQCB today, they just keep fumbling the ball all over the place. It's embarrassing.

Blame the CSD Boards, past and present, all you want, but the bottom line is that the reason why regulatory agencies exist in the first place is to make sure things like Los Osos don't happen. Well, Los Osos happened.

Ann wrote:

"In short, they had many tools in their box. They had ample opportunity to re-think what they were doing, change direction, and yet they alone CHOSE to use the CDOs. Which prompted my constant question, Why?"

I'll take a stab at an answer.

I think there are two answers to that question:

1) Those letters to Briggs, coordinated by Nash-Karner, demanding fines on Los Osos government and residents, appear to have had a dramatic impact. Those CDOs smell as nasty and vindictive as those letters.

and;

2) Briggs f-d up bad from 1999 -2000 when he sat on his hands and watched as the initial CSD, led by Nash-Karner, futilely pursued a deeply flawed sewer project that he knew wasn't going to work... from day one. I can't overemphasize what a colossal f-up that was. And that was all on Briggs -- an almost two year delay, a delay with absolutely disastrous consequences-- ALL on Briggs. And, to me at least, it sure looks like the excessively nasty CDO process is his way of deflecting attention away from that. Again, that's just a guess, but keep in mind, right now he's sipping margaritas on some undisclosed beach, while the CDOers are being drug through his mess. Ouch.

"It was suggested that a prudent course of action was to continue with issuing these CDOs..."

The more I watch these bureaucrats go about their business, the more I think "a prudent course of action" would be to herd them all on some Morro Bay fishing boats, and ship them off to Santa Cruz island, where they would be considered feral, and we all know what they do to feral things on Santa Cruz island.

Ann wrote:

"This neurasthenically weak and weepy observation of faux victimhood by the only people in that room WITH real power was followed throughout the day-long beheadings by blandly disingenuous statements from other Board members as to how helpless they were, how they hated issuing CDOs to poor old sick people, residents they knew full well were powerless to build a sewer plant on their own, how unfortunate it all was, how terrible it made them feel, but they had no choice, they could do nothing else, they were helpless."

My word to describe that: Sickening

Shark Inlet said...

Ron ... for you it seems all about the blame.

But ... considering that ... would you say that ... at all ... the post-recall board shares any portion of the blame for the CDOs? Did they do anything that caused the RWQCB to act with these CDOs?

Anonymous said...

shark,

anon 8:45 here,
the point of my comment was that if the previous recalled board had developed a project the Community supported thru advisory votes or whatever, we would probably be hooked up and there would be no CDOs. the only vote we got from the recalled board was for a project that more than 50% of the town didn't want AFTER it was already started against the will of the majority of the people.

with respect.............

Knows LeGros said...

Dpesanyone remember the July 9, 2004 RWQCB staff report regarding portential enforcement against Los Osos? Staff concluede it was all infeasible. Enforcement, against the community of Los Osos has likely crippled the CCRWQCB operating budget, Richard Le Gros, why don't you take a look at their numbers? See how over budget they are and pester them with spread sheets and rumors of bankruptcy, oh that's right, they can't go bankrupt, they are on the State tit!

Mike Green said...

Who the heck shipped Los Osos into a time warp and sent it to Freedonia?
THIS is what our state taxes are paying for?
What a bunch of nincompoops.
They almost make all the CSDs past and present look like Nobel Prize winners.

I'll take the duress agreement,
The county better deliver something doable.

Anonymous said...

Damn Right
Sincerely, M

Anonymous said...

Please be advised that 49.9% of the people in Los Osos are law abiding, tax paying, normal citizens, who can see what is going on, and wish to have a Waste Water Treatment Plant installed in their community, regardless of what the crazies say, regardless of what the imported crackpots say, regardless of what those who are Section 8, and living under rent subsidies, say.
Those normal, regular citizens, whether they be renters or home owners, have a vested interest in Los Osos, and wish to maintain their lifestyle in Los Osos, and hopefully, have some sort of water treatment that does not subject them to sanctions by the State, or the County. All these law-abiding people want to do, is LIVE A PEACEFUL LIFE in this community, pay their taxes, and have the right to live here without the moronic, militant, bullying, upside-down factions in this community disrupting their right to the quiet enjoyment of their properties.

This community has been held hostage by those who extract their pound of flesh in the form of steering this community in the wrong direction; in bullying elderly ladies that want to come to the podium of the CSD meetings and have their say; those that want to speak up, when they feel this misguided so-called "leadership" has gotten out of hand, and want to stop the obvious collusion that has existed and still exists within this community.

The so-called leadership by Lisa and Company has been worse than none at all; She has taken her so-called naivete' and carried it into the realm of nothing more than a moronic, "Daddy, what is beer?" schtick, that has already become stale before it even hit the general public.

Lisa, listen up. Nobody is buying your foolishness any longer. We are not fooled by your head-in-the-sand baloney, nor the "blinders on" stance of, "We want everybody to COOPERATE with us!!" The Federal, State and County level personage owe you absolutely NOTHING! Nobody HAS to do one damned thing, except regulate you. Cooperation?? Well, you damned fool, you should have thought of that, when you were making enemies of the Federal, State and County people, from which you now WANT cooperation.

Lisa, be advised that as a Community Services District Board, you and your cohorts have lost all the respect of every Federal, State, County and local entity that has ever had dealings with you, or who ever will.

YOU have single-handedly brought shame, disgrace, and ridicule upon this lovely little bay community. You have brought ruination upon those who invested their life savings in a community that, instead of becoming their retirement community, became their old-age nightmare: They have invested every cent in their homes, only to be in danger of losing them to the economic ruin brought about you, and this bunch of fools on the Board.

Yes, Lisa, your stock, naive answers are no longer charming and refreshing for a new board, but border on the perputual child-like suppositions of one who refuses to grow up, or wake up. Your choice.

Lisa, you and Julie have led this hesitating Board into disaster. YOu know it. We know it. Everybody knows it.
If you cannot effect a dissolution, then do the right thing: RESIGN!!

Spectator said...

Ron:

I read the letters linked and find duplications. I read them before on the Water Board site. I guess a few people had the foresight to see the road to destruction, if the new board did as they said: Stop the sewer. Some wanted the LOCSD fined out of existance, others wanted a wake up of the electorate as to the lies of site, plan etc. as proposed by the recall candidates. As far as pushing the Regional water board, it is clear from the replies from Rodger Briggs that he had been watching the rhetoric in Los Osos and was prepared to do what he had threatoned for years: CDOs against individuals and the district. I did not see any emails from the recalled board members. I saw a email from Tacker so she could be more knowledgeable. Whether she was going to use the letters as some sort of recrimination against the senders is NOT speculative: a propaganda campaign did develop from her side. You, RON, and others such as ANN have been part of it. The proof is in the pudding. The letters were written, they exist, and are part of the public record. Also part of the political process.

Tacker developed these letters as a blame game that was at full force during the earlier CDO hearings when they wished to subpoena some of the letter writers, most notably Pandora.

However to think that Rodger Briggs was entirely influenced by those letters to take action, and that they were the deciding causality is a long stretch of high speculation. He had been threatoning CDOs for years if the time line was not followed. His views and threats are well documented. If he was doing something beyond the wishes of the CCRWQCB, he would have been reprimanded for exceeding his authority. Obviously, he did not listen what either you or Ann Calhoun wrote. He was taking direction from his board. He was careful not to be in a position of influencing an election (illegal). Ann has admitted that no one listened to her, and I have no idea who listened to you. I quess you were just bundled with the nut cases as sharky has expressed. Shame. But this was your problem. Prophets are never seen as such in their own land, especially when they are nay sayers.

I did not attend the recent CDO prosecution, but am delighted at ANN's highly inflamitory account. Such a wordsmith! Totally biased yes. Unfortunately I was not there so cannot comment on her accuracy. Her perception is her's alone, and it is just fine that she shares it with us. Hot stuff!

Duress? You betcha! Kangaroo court? Maybe. But there is nothing the CCRWQCB does that is not subject to judicial review, almost ad infinitem. The CCRWQCB can be slapped severely by courts, and have been.

And so we now have the LOCSD board about to discuss voluntary dissolution and withdrawal from bankruptcy proceedings that they petitioned. I have no idea of the potential harm to the community at this point, and the result of their wish should they be able to pull it off. However I CAN ask questions, speculate, and thereby perhaps bring things into focus:

1. If the board dissolves by resolution, Lafco will have to consider it. Because of liability considerations for the county and their previous rulling they will vote no. A protest against their decision would have to be mounted with enough signatures to require LAFCO to have a vote within the district by the property owners for dissolution. This vote can go yes or no.

2. The vote will be yes or no. There will be no costs displayed on the ballet. How much misinformation can be produced to influence this protest document from both sides of the issue to require the vote and overturn the LAFCO decision. Who cares, and what is the political will?

3. Without the bankruptcy plan, probably requiring a 218 vote by the property owners to assess themselves for the debts of the district, how can the debt be reduced, and the affairs of the district be put in order? Can the water district be sold to a corporation for enough money to pay off the debt? Are we actually bankrupt? Looks like we have a very large asset here. Does the LOCSD actually own the water district? Was it was given to us by the county, or was simply control given the district? Does it actually belong to the property owners and rate payers of the district?

4. If the district is required to dissolve, without bankruptcy proceedings, how will Lafco put the affairs of the district in order and be able to close the books? They will certainly demand a 218 vote, and what if it does not pass? Will the LOCSD remain in limbo forever? Will Lafco be able to sue the lawyers for errors etc.?

5. How will this affect the Blakeslee Bill? Will the parts of the Blakeslee bill affecting Los Osos become null and void? How will this affect the county's building of any sewer system regardless of price? How will this affect the CCRWQCB? What about the state that has always dragged its ass (donkeys are tough when they do not want to go) on this situation.

These are questions that leave very unclear answers. The county legal staff has said that they do not want to get involved. The district attorney, Jerry Shea, would have the AG's staff handle this and avoids intering the fray ( he is elected by the county electorate ). What judge would or could enter it? Who could speak to it without putting his/her liability on line?

I speculate that it is probably best to let the process play out and "let the voters decide: property owners who get to pay." The big problem is that they will be overwhelmed with inflamitory BS, "belief", and no facts. This has not happened before. Nobody has a crystal ball. No facts, just speculation. There is no speculation about the where the water boards are going.

We are suffering a breakdown of government, unrealistic laws, and WILL pay the consequences. There is a lot of truth when one says "you get what you vote for, and if you do not vote, you get what others vote for". However, as Gail McPherson said to me, "We ain't paid one dime yet." And she is still absolutely correct for individuals, otherwise dead wrong for the district, because of exorbitant legal fees. However, we are, as individuals, in the middle of the tracks, tied down, and a freight train is coming.

Please excuse my speculation, all I can do is speculate and ask questions that most probably have no meaningful answers.

Jon Arcuni

Anonymous said...

Ann, you God-Damned fool.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You know better. You, in order to maintain a job for yourself, have perpetuated this myth of "Los Osos as an entity unto itself."

NOT.

You are to blame, for those people who may be unsure of what stance to take, to encourage them to take the stance of the moronic, lunatic fringe; your support of the crazies, the imported morons; the bullies at the back of the room; my God, Ann, you should be so ashamed of yourself.

And, now, you stand here, and give us MORE bullshit?

Oh, come on.

Surely you do not think your audience is THAT dumb, do you??

Spectator said...

To anon, 7:59:

You are right on, totally correct, but who would you find to take her place? Who wants to get into this mess? Maybe Maria or Lynette?

Spectator said...

To anon 8:08 PM:

Yes, ANN has stated repetedly that her audience is that dumb! She has also expressed regret that people have not listened to her.

Look to the vote! The proof is in the pudding! It vindicates Ann. Her audience is dumb, I actually respond to her posts.

Churadogs said...

Anonymous said,"Now? What a freakin' mess. What an AVOIDABLE freakin' mess. And you can blame the RWQCB all you want Ann. And you have some damn good points. But I say thanks Julie and Lisa. Thanks sewer-as-religion fanatics who lied to an uninfored community. And thanks to the 51.3% of the people who voted for this nightmare."

You forgot to thank the previous board who told officials that the community had an "overiding community value" of putting a sewer plant in the middle of town so they could have a park next to it, and told the community there was NO alternatives, and the Coastal Coimmission for NOT insisting their request for a side-by-side comparison of in-town/out-town be done, and the State Water Board for funding an increase of $40 on the SRF with no secured revenue stream and a 218 vote lawsuit in the works and no 218 vote, and the old board again for starting work before the recall which cost this community not only huge piles of money but cost them their seats (o irony), and of course who can forget Pandora's emails urging Roger to "fine the CSD (us) out of existance & lawsuiters and dissolvers and of course, a special thank you to the RWQCB for Roger Briggs. So many, many people to thank. Wherever do we start? Oh, yes, did I forget to thank the 40% of the community that didn't and doesn't vote, and I don't know how many people who were asleep at the switch, who never even perked their ears up when I kept writing columns headed, "O Lucy, Joooo gotta 'splainin' to do," which kept raising questions that desperately needed answering BEFORE moving forward, but nobody paid the least attention. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Couldn't have done it without you.

Inlet sez:"Had the pre-Recall board simply not started construction before the vote and the post-Recall board lived up to their promises to not build at TriW ... would things be much different now at all with regard to the CDOs?

On a related matter, Ann, while Cleath says there won't be an immediate improvement in water quality in the aquifer we all know damn well that water quality will increase."

You forget, the CDOs (we are told) were triggered by "stopping" the project. Remember the Octobver compromise (the negotiations that weren't negotiations, heh-heh) If the SWB & RWQCB had been sane, they would have worked to make that compromise a reality, work, which was, at that point merely in "stand down" would have proceeded and since it was "progressing" the RWQCB would have no reason for CDO/s.

As for Cleath's comment, I gather you weren't at the meeting or weren't paying attention. You misquote him. He said clearly that the pump, inspect, repair mitigation efforts that the CDOs claim are being required to help clean up the ground water, will have no real impact on the groundwater in the short time they'll be in place. The only thing they might do is by repairing a failing system you would help in areas where you've got surfacing water & etc. In other words, just as I stated, the requirements of the CDO, which are being used as a justification for them, are about appearance not actual science or reality. He further, clearly stated, that the ONLY way to clean up the ground water is a collection/treatment system and even that would take about 40 years to effect any real change in the water.

Inlet also sez:"what is the best thing to do next. I suspect that if we lobby the County to start a project ASAP, they could lobby the RWQCB to put the "drop dead deadline" of 2011 on hold while the project is proceeding."

If you watched the proceedings, or were paying attention, here's something I noted that you'd all better pay really, really close attention to. That Board DID NOT KNOW that the County had not and had no obligation to accept the project. DID NOT KNOW THAT. THey also did not know whether the "timeline" they were including in the CDOs was a mere draft timeline (yes, the numbers they were playing with were part of the early "guestimate" made by Paavo, and at the point of the hearing Matt Thompson had no idea whether it had been modified or updated. So, youhad a clueless Board making assumptions based on nothing, putting in legal, drop-dead dates that may only be draft guiestimates and when asked to be prudent to amend hold the CDO's in abeyance until they could get better numbers from the Count, REFUSED TO DO SO.

Further, during public comment, I noted to the Board that Bruce Buel, four times, testified about the "Unreadonable" TSO, that the Peer Review report noted that their drop dead date was "somewhat aribritary," and noted that that original TSO was cited and used to prevent two critical things that could have averted this train wreck (the side by side comparison/advisory vote & the 218 revenue stream funding for the additonal $40 mil SRF that would also have been a vote on the Tri W itself) and I begged them NOT TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE.

Did they listen? Learn from the past? Pay the least attention? Nope. Worse yet, and this is where everyone better perk up their ears: If the RWQCB puts "unreasonable" and impossible and unmeetable timelines on the County, it may spook the county and they'll walk away from this all, which would be the supreme irony: The RWQCB itself will then be responsible for stopping a sewer project, must like they helped to do with the October compromise.

Inlet sez:"the post-recall board shares any portion of the blame for the CDOs? Did they do anything that caused the RWQCB to act with these CDOs? "

Have you forgotten, the ACLs and CDOs were being written by Roger even before the election was over. Remember the email from pandora asking Roger if there was some way he could take the project away from the CSD, and he said, alas, he didn't have time to do that, and noted that he was already working on the CDOs & etc. BEFORE the election was even called, before the new board was sworn in, before the new board could even take one vote. BEFORE.

Anonymous sez:"Lisa, you and Julie have led this hesitating Board into disaster. YOu know it. We know it. Everybody knows it."

You forgot to note that a majority of these law-abiding citizens voted FOR the recall, voted FOR a Measure B that would give them a say in siting sewerplants and, despite the utter hell that reigned down on this down, re-voted TO RETURN two of the original recall candidates, candidates that ran on a platform of moving the sewer plant out of town. You need to point out that all those voters, law abiding citizens each and every one, are also a disgrace, don't you?

Jon Sez:"Please excuse my speculation, all I can do is speculate and ask questions that most probably have no meaningful answers."

Questions are absolutely vital because it means you're paying attention. I'm sorry you didn't attend the Auto de fe. It was sickening and truly alarming in many ways. When you see a government entity operating blind, using guestimates, old data, assuming facts not in evidence, all of which put individuals in peril and a whole community in peril, and they do so with absolute indifference, it's really alarming. Worst yet, how many of the people being injured here can afford to get to a "real" court? To date, this community has been indifferent to the fate of the Los Osos 45, believing that THEY will somehow be exempt, that THEY won't suffer the same fate. THEY will find out soon enough how wrong they are.

Anonymous sez:"Ann, you God-Damned fool.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You know better. You, in order to maintain a job for yourself, have perpetuated this myth of "Los Osos as an entity unto itself."

NOT.

You are to blame, for those people who may be unsure of what stance to take, to encourage them to take the stance of the moronic, lunatic fringe; your support of the crazies, the imported morons; the bullies at the back of the room; my God, Ann, you should be so ashamed of yourself."

Oh, Pluuueeeezzze.

Jon sez:"Yes, ANN has stated repetedly that her audience is that dumb! She has also expressed regret that people have not listened to her.

Look to the vote! The proof is in the pudding! It vindicates Ann. Her audience is dumb, I actually respond to her posts.

8:19 PM, December 16, 2006"

Oh, pluuuueeeze, again. Ron has a very valid point that each of you needs to think about:"Blame the CSD Boards, past and present, all you want, but the bottom line is that the reason why regulatory agencies exist in the first place is to make sure things like Los Osos don't happen. Well, Los Osos happened."

You are looking at a FAILED PROCESS, one that didn't have to fail, but one that did. You are looking at a FAILED SYSTEM, with critical steps either missed or deliberately shoved off the table. Regulatory agencies exist to see that things like Los Osos don't happen. The RWQCB had in place Resolution 83-12 and could have required the newly formed original CSD to put in place a septic managemnt district. They failed to do that. As Ron has pointed out, they could have issued CDOs on the town the minute the new CSD got elected with their Ponds of Avalon, which they had already ruled they wouldn't allow. They didn't do that. The SLO County Planning Commissioners never asked to see the documentation that supported the old CSD's SOC, the item Ron is still waiting to see, documentation that would support the overwhelming community value and necessity of keeping that sewer plant in the middle of town so we could have a park next to it. Ditto the Coastal Commission on the hearing to issue their original permit. The Coastal Commission (again, during the de novo re-hearing) is still waiting to get their requeisted side-by-side comparison of in-town/out of town, the guestimate of which in the staff report was to be either one mil cheaper or 5-6 mil more, which, as I pointed out at the time, on a 30 year, 150 mil loan would be chump change and certainly something the community SHOULD HAVE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHIME IN ON, and the SWB has still not explained how or why it was able to loan an additional $40 million of state [and federal monies]on an unsecured revenue stream project that was facing a 218 lawsuit, and give that money to a Board only weeks away from a recall. Regulatory agencies exist to prevent things like that from happening. Yet, as Ron points out, Los Osos happened. Yet you believe I'm to blame. And Jon thinks the citizens and voters are stupid.

Oh, Pluuueeeeze.

Anonymous said...

Miss Ann,

Me thinks you blog (complain) to much.

Your a loser.

Anonymous said...

anon 8:47,

You're(not your) a loser.

Have a nice day!!!

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:06,

You're a loser too.

All you folks in the sewer zone are losers.

Enjoy paying more than you had to for sewering your town.

Signed, somebody who doesn't give a damn about your troubles as you brought them on ourselves.

Anonymous said...

anon 7:59,

I understand your anger. I am angry too. I believe your anger is misguided. What government in their right mind would try and forcefeed a publicworks project on a Community that only half the citizens support. The solutions group/save the dream/taxpayers waste CSD had eight years to develop a project that the majority of our Community supported. The former recalled CSD had eight years to engage in consensus building. They could of presented our community with an advisory vote or set of options to vote on. Instead, in their arrogance, they turn their back on this Community and tried to ramrod a project thru that less than half of us supported. And now, they are gone. When the former recalled Directors turned their back on this Community and tried to start a project that we did not support before even giving us a chance to vote on it, this is when the Los Osos CSD folded like a house of cards and melted like a snowcone in hell. Scorched earth. Like a spoiled kid that can't win so he flings the board across the room in attempt to destroy a game he can't win. Pursuing a project that this Community did not support has cost us all millions and millions and billions. You can't blame this on Lisa and Julie.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:32

Moron...you have to pay more because you wanted (voted) to. You could have built your sewer...but nooo....you wasted millions by stopping a viable project just becausde you didn't like it. Grow up, accept that the only people to balme are yourselves, and quite your damn whinning.

Signed, an out-of-towner who thinks your town is insane.

Julie Tacker said...

Notice to all those who are interested:

I saw Bruce Buel at 6:30 this morning at Valley Liquor and asked him point blank, "Are you considering bring on that advisery committee?" He shook his head affirmatively and said "Uh,huh, seriously."

Anonymous said...

Hi Julie,

I have been asked to be on the County's Finance Committee of the Sewer project. I plan to accept.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

All,

I watched the CDO hearings on TV...what a complete idiot that Bruce Pain is....he just could not let his pride be damaged when he realized that his property would not be encumbered with a CDO is he just took the settlement. Mr. Pains continuous tirade of the old project was a complete joke; especially in light that any new project will be far more expensive.

Anonymous said...

"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee."

Ann has finally allowed herself to answer this question of the CDO process and realized the bells have tolled. And this has caused her to lash out against the various regulatory agencies.

I'm going to miss the dour Ann as I was hoping to someday witness an actual smile, or God forbid, a hardy belly laugh at one of the public comment opportunities.

Ciao

Julie Tacker said...

Richard,
How is it you will "accept" when the process, outlined in this weeks BOS staff report(item B-18), is for community members to apply to be on the committe and then be chosen?
Maybe you are confused. Were you asked to APPLY for the Finance Committee? Something would be very wrong if you were already chosen, due process.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone on this blog know if it's just a rumor or is there some truth to it; that the County is paying a staf member to read all these sewer blogs?

FBLeG said...

Hey,

Didn't Gary Shallcross participate in the latest CDO hearings?

Apparently, his term has expired as a board member of the RWQCB (unless he has been reappointed): Maybe someone can find the reappointment press release. I couldn't.

Board Members

I guess one more piece of ammunition for an appeal of RWQCB actions.

Just one more potential screw-up by the RWQCB.

Anonymous said...

From the start, this has been about developement. Why else a sewer? That is why so many properties were allowed to be developed in the interim. So that somebody could be assigned to pay for this. Can anybody offer any suggestion that this is not what it is?
Sincerely, M

Anonymous said...

The County Board thing is a joke. A sick joke. To make people think they are being fair. There is nothing any agency or person can do in this situation that will be considred "fair." It's impossible. I think we should let the Couinty do their job, let them pretend they're working with the LOCSD, and get on with it. BTW I voted for the recall but am not on the extreme edge. Obviously the recall didn't work. We need to get a project, not revenge, for either side. Just the idea of Buell, LeGros, or Fouche, or McPherson, etc. being on the County committee is a nightmare. If a county staff member is reading this, LISTEN UP: you are perpetuating our nightmare. Cut it out.

PZ property owner

Anonymous said...

Hi anon way aboove,

Yeah..I applied and am being asked to join the committee.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

Gloat on, Richard or whoever you are. Your presence is just going to keep the war going. Why not step aside and let the COUNTY do their work? The more "players" who do that the more likely the possibility of reaching some consencus. Think about it.

Shark Inlet said...

Oh my gosh ... some of us are just far too touchy.

In a situation such as this where one needs to fill slots on a board, the application process is open to everyone but some individuals with known qualifications are typically solicited to apply. Entirely fair. Had Linde the qualifications I am sure that she would be chosen.

To suggest that particular members of the Community should be disallowed from participating because of their opinions is just plain wrong.

To our most recent anonymous friend who says that Richard should step aside and let the County do what they want to do ... why don't you step aside and let the County choose Richard like they want to? You do have a good point about keeping biased people out of the process is a good one ... but I wonder whether you feel this should preclude any supporter of the Recall from participation?

Anonymous said...

Okay, let's project out ten years. We have a wastewater treatment plant. Where is the developement going to be? Where is the need for an additional sewer going to be? We can't keep focusing on the past. As much as I like to play the blame game, of which there is much to go around, I also think about the future. Which I don't expect to be around to see.
What industry in S.L.O. County will sustain a wage able to pay $350-400 a month for a sewer bill? Who in their right mind would buy into a $350-400 a month sewer bill?
Can any body give me an exact figure of what I can expect to pay for let's say the next ten years for this sewer fiasco? Can anybody make sense of all of this?
Sincerely,M

Julie Tacker said...

Richard,
Where does one get an application form for the committee? Perhaps you could pdf it to the blog site so all can apply.

Anonymous said...

HI M,

You had the chance for a sewer at Tri-W for $107/month back in 2003...and fought it. You had a chance for a sewer at Tri-W at $175-$200/month in 2005, but fought it, and now you complain about a sewer that may be $350-$400/month and are still going to fight it while complaining about cost?

If you want sense, build whatever sewer you can ASAP,even if it means Tri-W, as time increases costs.

I will assist the County to be pragmatic; just as I supported and urged the early CSD to be pragmatic. I really do not care where the plant is eventually built...just get it done. If the 218 vote picks to restart Tri-W, fine; if the 218 vote picks another project, fine. It will be the voters choice, not mine.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

Julie,

Just send a letter, email, telegram, whatever to Pavo O. stating your desire to be on a committee. Easy enough.

Regards, RBL

Anonymous said...

To be a fair and balananced committee it should be made up of Lisa, Julie, Chuck and Steve with Richard, Gordon, Bruce and Bob Semonson across the table from each other...wouldn't we love to see them all duke it out?
Or better yet, Al, Budd and Tom Salmon on one side of the table and Joyce, Jon and Sharon on the other. What are your recommendations community, if the County is paying someone to read these blogs let's see who we end up with. We always have our 218 vote that can send it back to the LOCSD (if they're still around). Ooo, how about Ron and Ann one side of the table and Bill Morem and PAndora on the other...let's see the sparks fly then.

Julie Tacker said...

I heard elected officials can not be on the committee, so I won't be allowed to apply.

Anonymous said...

Well Shark...excuse me! I just happen to think the less "bias" in the committee the better chance we have of moving forward smoothly. But lil ole me, a concerned property owner, must step aside and let Richard (a HUGE anti-sewer target) get in there. I'll gladly step aside if this is the response I get for contributing my opinion to this blog. Guess Shark should head up the committee or something.

Anonymous said...

And in response to your question, Shark, what I meant is that certain individuals are lightening rods in this town, you know that. I think the fewer of those folks the better. Anti recall or pro recall makes no difference. We wouldn't want Pandora on there or Gail. At least I wouldn't. See what I mean?

Shark Inlet said...

I understand your lightening-rod comment all too well. I made it myself a week ago in a different context.

I guess I was (over) reacting to your statement which sounded like you didn't believe that Richard should be allowed.

I would think that Bruce would be a no-brainer as would Rob Miller. Beyond that I would want those on the committee to be those with the greatest understanding of the associated issues.

Personally, I would think Don Asquith would be a great choice. PhD Geologist who opposed the Solutions Group plan from day zero for reasons that ultimately proved quite accurate.

The problem here is that our community is pretty tapped out of folks who are willing too participate in such tasks who haven't already done so. Maria Kelly comes to mind, but because half of the town hates her because she was supported by TW, she can't participate. Similar for anyone with the background to do a good job.

Spectator said...

The sewer war is over and out of our hands. The county will decide to give us options IF options are available. For sure, "no sewer" is not an option. There are WP systems and collection systems that are acceptable to the CCRWQCB. The county is not able to finance any system itself. The money probably will come from the revolving fund in the form of a low interest loan, and if money is not available, we may be down the tubers as far as the date set by the CCRWQCB for ANY system.

So far all we have seen is a MBR system for nitrate removal etc. that will alow us to recharge the upper aquifer so we can use the water in the future. It meets the requirements of the CCRWQCB and was permitted. It does not have to be at TRI-W. Pipes can be used and pump stations to put it almost anywhere that is acceptable to the requirements of the Blakeslee Law: within the district. The county could buy land outside the district, give it to the district, and maybe this would satisfy the requirement. I do not know. The county will have to figure this out. However, if any staffer has made copies of ANN's latest exercise in opinion, and circulated it ...................

Is this what the county has to look forward to? No matter what the county does it will be subject to criticism. Criticism of the county is non-productive until we see what they come up with.

You can leave me off any board or committee, but I will assure any and all of you that I would be sitting on the table in the middle of the table. I think Shark would be next to me, and Joe Sparks the same. Mike Green and Richard would be there also. You see, we really do not care where or what the system is: all we want is a practical solution, and certainly not an eyesore.

Jon Arcuni

Mike Green said...

I'm right there with you Jon.

Shark Inlet said...

Jon,

I'll even take an eyesore over a $400/month sewer bill.

But some have said that I'm cheap.

Anonymous said...

regarding Dick Le Gross 1:45 comment: "You had the chance for a sewer at Tri-W for $107/month back in 2003...and fought it. You had a chance for a sewer at Tri-W at $175-$200/month in 2005, but fought it, and now you complain about a sewer that may be $350-$400/month and are still going to fight it while complaining about cost?"

Well Dick, we had the chance at a $50 a month out of town County project but your solutions group friends LIED to us.

If the County appoints Dick le Gross and/or Bruce Beul to any committee that has anything to do with the sewer it will be a lock that the 218 vote fails.
I can't believe the County would be so stupid to appoint recalled losers like you.
Your appointments would be a huge advertisement to all in Los Osos to kill the 218 vote.

Anonymous said...

For all you fellow sewer supporters:

With all due respect, Richard, I want a sewer as soon as possible. I am afraid that you and Bruce being on these committees will cause more harm than good.

We all know how the recall crowd feels about you, and that they will freak if you are chosen. I'm afraid of how an advisory vote and 218 vote will go if you guys are again calling the shots.

You seem convinced these votes will pass fine, as they "have to", and any opposition will seem counterproductive. But has that stopped the recall group before?

It may be better for the community as a whole for you to step aside and allow others to take the wheel for this. Consensus building may be easier for those without such acrimonious histories... and we need consensus, and to support the county, to make this work.

As irrational as opposition to a 218 vote may seem, we can't afford it. Looking at the last few elections, we need buy-in from both sides. Your recusal from the county committees may help achieve that.

You can continue to help in other ways.

Anonymous said...

Here's the application:

Name:

Address/City:

Pro Tri-W?: (Y/N)

Anti Tri-W?: (Y/N)

Pro Gravity?:(Y/N)

Pro STEP?: (Y/N)

Pro Sewer?: (Y/N)

Ex-Director?: (Y/N)

Ex-General Manager?: (Y/N)

Ex-Recalled Director?: (Y/N)

Ex-Wife?: (Y/N)

Los Osos Resident?: (Y/N) Answering yes means you are very likely highly prejudiced, and will likely make you disqualified.

Are you willing to take lots of critism and have hundreds of people give you mounds of mythical wastewater knowledge into your ear?: (Y/N)

If you answered yes above, are you nuts?: (Y/N)

Can you bring bagels to the meetings? (Y/N) NOTE: answering yes will enhance your chances of selection.

If the answer above is yes, can you bring bagels to the Board of Supervisors meetings as well, and be prompt? (Y/N) NOTE: answering yes will assure your chance of selection.

Oops, will you bring cream cheese to the meetings as well?: (Y/N)

When is the best time to contact you, and where do you purchase the best bagels in San Luis Obispo County?

Anonymous said...

Hi 4:32 above.

You wrote: "Well Dick, we had the chance at a $50 a month out of town County project but your solutions group friends LIED to us."

Answer: Yeah, the Solution Group was WRONG. They sold you a promise they could not keep. I agree with you. We should have built the County's sewer in 1998 and be paying only $50/month.

I said they were wrong in 1998. I argued then exactly what I say now...Time delay raises costs faster than attempting to lower costs through plan alterations.

Did they lie? No..they were just wrong. Just as Julie, Lisa, Chuck, etc. are "wrong" that moving the sewer will be cheaper and better.

So people were wrong. So what?...are you saying that the less expensive option (Tri-W) should be not built because people made promises they could not keep. Do you really want to build an out of town sewer that will be more expensive? If that is your arguement, fine. If that is what the Prop 218 vote determines, fine. Just do not complain about the cost.

My point, build what you have NOW to keep costs lower.

Also, let go of your anger. It kills reason.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:06

Speculation about the affects of my being on a committee is just that...speculation.

Be mindful that the committees are not advisory. Their only purpose will be to list the pro and cons of the options the County puts before them.

I will not make the final decision.
The committee will not make the final decision.
The County will not make the final decision.
YOU AS A PROPERTY OWNER WILL MAKE THE FINAL DECISION.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

Well then, if you want Los Osos to make the right decision (i.e. support a project, a 218 vote, etc.) then step aside, Richard. Give it up, Richard. If you want to keep stirring it up, go ahead. You will reap the results, as will all of the property owners. You tried to "save" us once, remember? It didn't fly, remember?

Anonymous said...

To Richard Le Gros:

From a property owner in Los Osos:

If you are appointed to any committee or have any say or comment or input with the County regaring the wastewater project for Los Osos, I will most certainly vote NO on 218.

With respect,

Los Osos Property Owner.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Arcuni, said:
" The problem is they will be overwhelmed with inflamitory BS."

Right...mostly from you and that a**hole Anon 7:59

You are both a couple of narrow thinking, trouble making fools!

Anonymous said...

Looks fairly clear to me. If we want the 218 to pass we need to move forward, not backward (as in seeking advice from RECALLED directors and FIRED gms!) Seriously, come on Shark. Do you really want to keep going down the same friggin' road? The property owners want to go forward with the County. If they would let themselves be objective this might work. Instead, they want to get the oldies back in the mix and this is basically a BIG OLE CAN OF WORMS. Mark these words folks. Mark 'em.

Spectator said...

Hey Sharky, you think you are cheap? I am the cheapest. That does not mean that I am not very generous. I pride myself in paying a better price for top quality merchandise than ANYONE else. What I always want is something I need that is GOOD, and cheap. There is absolutely nothing better than a new $200,000 retail car at $120,000, especially when everyone else has paid $195,000.

I always want bang for the buck! But I want quality at the same time. Crap is crap, no matter what the price. However, when I see steak at $7.00 a lb. in the grocery store and KNOW I can buy it for less, and fat cattle are going for $70 a hundred lbs (.70 a lb) , I look at it and say to myself: "Let it rot!"

Jon Arcuni

Anonymous said...

Dear Buel, LeGros, et al.

If you have anything to do with this process, I and many others I know will not vote for the 218. Why make it so hard for Los Osos? Time to step aside. A sailing trip perhaps? P.S. I own mutiple properties and so do many of my peers.

Anonymous said...

ATTENTION!!!!!!

I HAVE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE.
THIS IS MY FIRST BLOG POST ALTHOUGH I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THESE BLOG FOR THE LAST FEW MONTHS.
THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE.............
I BELIEVE IF LEGROS, GUSTAFSON, AND HENSLEY HAD NOT STARTED THE PROJECT BEFORE THE RECVALL ELECTION THE TRI-W PROJECT WOULD ALREADY BE UNDERWAY. I BELIEVE THIS WHOLE PROCESS SMACKS AND REEKS OF CORRUPTION. BLAKESLEE RECEIVING $6000 FROM BARNARD CONSTRUCTION MONTHS BEFORE HE STEALS THE WASTEWATER PROJECT FROM LOS OSOS?????
THE COUNTY APPOINTING RECALLED AND FIRED MEMBERS OF THE CSD TO ADVISORY COMMITTEES?????
WHAT IN THE HELL IS THE COUNTY THINKING. DO THEY EVEN REALIZE HOW IMPOSSIBLE IT WILL BE TO PASS A 218 VOTE WITHOUT ATTACHING LOSERS TO THEIR TICKET?
UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE............

FOLLOW ME...............

THE COUNTY'S ACTUAL GOAL AT THIS POINT SHOUD BE TO PASS A 218 VOTE, RIGHT?
I GUESS THIS IS MY QUESTION....
WHAT CAMPAIGN, IN IT'S RIGHT MIND, WOULD ACT IN A PROACTIVE MANOR THAT WOULD, WITHOUT QUESTION, COST IT VOTES?

THINK ABOUT THIS PAAVO...............DO YOU HAVE A FUCKING BRAIN?

THIS COMMUNMITY RECALLED RICHARD LE GROS AND FIRED BRUCE BEUL.

I GUESS MY NEXT QUESTION IS THIS,
PAAVO AND NOEL, WHEN THE 218 VOTE FAILS AND YOU ARE ASKED THE QUESTION; "WHY DID YOU APPOINT A RECALLED DIRECTOR AND A FIRED GENERAL MANAGER TO ADVISORY COMMITTEES".........WHAT WILL YOU SAY?
WILL YOU SAY; "IT WAS OUR INTENT THIS WHOLE TIME TO FLUSH 2 MILLIONS DOLLARS OF THE COUNTY'S TAXPAYER'S MONEY DOWN THE LOS OSOS TIOLET?

I WILL SAY THIS AS NICE AS I CAN POSSIBLY SAY IT..........

NOEL AND PAAVO, GET A FUCKING CLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shark Inlet said...

To those who are saying that they'll vote no on a 218 vote if Richard or Bruce are asked to participate on a committee that will represent our community ...

You are all fools. Even if you disagree with some of what Richard has done in the past, his participation doesn't justify a reactionary "no" vote which will screw us even more than we already are.

The purpose of the committee is to get input from our community. If some who disagree with Richard's past decisions wants to effectively prevent him from trying to put his thumb on the scales (so to speak) in the County vetting process, volunteering to be on the committee yourself would be best.

I, for one, would welcome the participation of John Fouche and Tom Ruehr, two individuals who would disagree with Richard's past decisions.

Input from a wide variety of folks with a wide variety of backgrounds will be necessary here. Simply rejecting Buel and LeGros out of spite is just plain dumb.

Anonymous said...

anon said... "With all due respect, Richard, I want a sewer as soon as possible. I am afraid that you and Bruce being on these committees will cause more harm than good.

We all know how the recall crowd feels about you, and that they will freak if you are chosen. I'm afraid of how an advisory vote and 218 vote will go if you guys are again calling the shots."


Shark said... "You are all fools. Even if you disagree with some of what Richard has done in the past, his participation doesn't justify a reactionary "no" vote which will screw us even more than we already are."

Fools or not, that is how they feel. Doesn't it scare you that there are such strong feelingt against LeGros that just his involvement can thwart a 218 vote? The feelings are so strong that they may override all reason.

Good or bad, that is the reality of the situation. How we got here doesnt matter, that is where we are today.

If Richard REALLY cared about Los Osos he would withdraw his name from the committee volunteer pool.

All of you that want a sewer should speak to Richard and Buel and let them know they need to stay out of this.

LeGros said... "Speculation about the affects of my being on a committee is just that... speculation."

Richard, do you really want to risk the 218 vote, and county project on speculation? I recall you speculating Tina Peterson would win... I recall you speculating the recall would fail. I recall you speculating the dissolution would happen. I recall you speculating Maria, Lynn and Joe would win.

It may be better for you to stop speculating.

Please stay out of this. Don't underestimate the willingness of Los Osos to screw themselves just to spite you. That is how much you are hated!!!

Anonymous said...

Well Shark they may all be fools, but I would argue that those same "fools" are sending out a warning. Whether you wish to acknowledge that or not is your own decision. On another note to all: a question. To what extent do we "need" this committee? I've lived here for a longgggggg time and it seems to me this situation has been studied ad nauseum. If the County wants to look like they are allowing input I say it's a waste of time.

Anonymous said...

Can a case be made that sentiments like: "...willingness of Los Osos to screw themselves just to spite you." or "GET A FUCKING CLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", are not putting a 'thumb on the scale' and are not subverting citizen participation?

I for one, am not going to support the "back of the CSD meeting crowd" making all community decisions for me. Attempts to stifle any citizens' right to participate violates all the ideals that the current CSD and their supporters claim to stand for.

STIFLE ANY CAUSES ALL TO LOSE!

Maybe Mother Ann can step in here an make a ruling on the fairness of ALL to participate?

Anonymous said...

Hi various anons above,

You are all going to vote no on a 218 vote if I or Bruce are assigned to a committee?

Gee, I would think that you would all want to be pragmatic at this point and build whatever the County offers as the LEAST EXPENSIVE OPTION. It will be YOUR CHOICE. I or Bruce will not have the final decision...YOU WILL.

I do not see people who dislike the possible commitee appointment of Gail MacPherson claiming that they will vote NO if she are put on a committee. Same goes for the possible appointment of John Fouche, Tom Ruer, and others.

No, I sense that those that dislike Bruce and I are just fearful, paranoid and a tiny bit insane,

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

Due to a recent post, I guess Noel and Paavo NOW know what they are up against! Nice blog from someone who shouts, can't spell, no grammer, uses foul language, and has to be Franc3, suspected as related to Julie Tacker.

Anonymous said...

Anon said... "I for one, am not going to support the "back of the CSD meeting crowd" making all community decisions for me. Attempts to stifle any citizens' right to participate violates all the ideals that the current CSD and their supporters claim to stand for."

I agree, I dont thing anyone from the fringes should be selected. I want moderates that can build consensus and get everyone on board.

By all means, everyone that wants should apply... but the county needs to listen to the community and pick those that won't incite a riot.

You don't HAVE to stifle anyone, but if you don't be prepared to live with the consequences... that being a large campaign to vote no on the recurrected Tri-W project from the skewed recommendation of the Bruce/Richard committees.

LeGros said... "I do not see people who dislike the possible commitee appointment of Gail MacPherson claiming that they will vote NO if she are put on a committee. Same goes for the possible appointment of John Fouche, Tom Ruer, and others."

That is because we don't hate them as much as you, Richard. Don't you understand... poeple fucking hate you!!! To the point of letting that guide their decisions. You seem to be proud of that?

You have so much pride that you have indicated your intent to continue to seek appointment to this committee... are you willing to risk a successful county project because you are so proud to be selected for something again?

Think about it... do you really care enough about Los Osos to step aside and allow others to take the reins??

It's like a vicious custody battle... eventually someone needs to step aside for what is best fo rthe child... or are you the type to smother the child in its sleep just so your ex can't have it?

Is that how much you love it? Because if you ask me, that more than just "a tiny bit insane".

Anonymous said...

Hi Anon above,

Hmmm...as I have said before, the County's committees are not decison making or advisory...they just list pro and con positions of the options before the County.

YOU will make the decisions in a prop 218 vote. You will take the "reins" and decide.

Personally, I believe the best course of action for the County is not to have any committees at all. That will end this silly sideshow debate about the compositon of a committee altogether.

I'll tell you what. If all you anons identify yourselves and promise to vote YES to support the County's 218 vote on the sewer, I will not accept a committee position. I ask this because your posts indicates your intention to vote YES on a vote UNLESS I am on a committee. As I do care about Los Osos and both those that love and hate me, I freely make this offer.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

We saw what happened last time you tried to make a deal... you weaseled out of it, you weasel.

Don't even try it.

Signed, Sure Bet

Anonymous said...

Hey Sure Bet...how ya been?

My bet still stands....I'm game if you are.

Anyway, I was not making a "bet" when I offered to stand down form a committe appointment in exchange for a YES vote on a prop 218 vote. All the anons saying that they will vote NO if I am on any committee indicated they will vote Yes if I stand down. OK...I'm willing to stand down.

Seems to be that these anons what to cut off their noses despite their collective faces on this issue. I do not want to see them disfigure themselves.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

the question Mr. le Gross is not what we will do if you're not on the committee, it's what we will do if you're on it.....
if you're on the committee, the 218 has no chance.

Shark Inlet said...

I can see the point of saying "if Richard wants to give the process a better chance of succeeding he should step aside" because it admits that there are folks (like our good friend of a few minutes ago) who threaten to harm our community just because they dislike him so much.

I do have to wonder again about the wisdom and logic of harming your friends and neighbors just so that you can send Richard yet another message. Hardly seems wise to me, but then again, neither did passing Measure B or voting for the Recall or stopping the project or choosing actions which caused bankruptcy of the CSD or opposing dissolution just so that you can support it later or ...

I guess it probably all comes down to perceptions, personality conflicts and passion here in Los Osos.

There are far too many of us are reactionaries. Just because Lisa says something doesn't make it bad (or good for that matter). Just because Richard (who was recalled) is willing to help out doesn't mean that the outcome will be a bad one.

Grow the hell up, Los Osos! It is exactly this sort of childish behavior (from a lot of people) that has caused us to continually fall deeper and deeper into a hole.

Just because the situation is already bad and growing worse each month doesn't mean we have to make choices that will accelerate the process. If we just stop sniping at each other in such a rude way ... if we just stick to facts-n-figures and are willing to allow all comers to the County process ... we just might be able to limit the damage.

I never imagined I would be moving into the middle of Hatfields v. McCoys.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anons above,

Ok guys...this arguement is just plain silly. Ya'll got your panties in a bunch because you are just sooooooo angry that you cannot see straight; and are willing to cut off your noses just out of spite.

I do not have time for your games.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Meanwhile, what about Lisa deciding that the CSD should dissolve cuz she is tired of no one wants to play with her?

Anonymous said...

PS Guys,

Just to end this silliness, I have no intention of being on the County's committee.

Why? Not because of your silly, spiteful and insane hatred and threats...but because the committee will be a complete waste of time; is without power to form any type of agreement in this balkanized community; and my time is dedicated to serve on the Bankruptcy Creditor's Committee.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Ron said...

An Anon wrote:

"Ooo, how about Ron and Ann one side of the table and Bill Morem and PAndora on the other...let's see the sparks fly then."

NOW we're talkin'... I took Richard's advice and e-mailed Paavo for an application.

An absolute, rock solid prerequisite for anyone getting accepted to the TAC should be that they can give a coherent answer to this question:

Why did Commissioner Potter call the CSD "bait and switchy" in 2004?

If a TAC applicant can't answer that question, then they shouldn't be on the committee. Period.

Shark Inlet said...

Another thing to consider, Richard ... if anyone that someone named "Joyce" or "Gordon" is tapped to serve on the committee, we'll get the same sort of outraged comments, yelling that the deck was stacked before the game started.

It's not just you ... it's the idea that they might have been wrong about stopping TriW that they hate so much ... they're just unwilling to admit it.

Anonymous said...

Shark you are missing the point... it is all about perception.

The county should want it to look like the deck has bene properly shuffled.

I say the committees should not have anyone named Richard, Keith, Gordan, Lisa, Joyce, Julie, Stan, Linde, Pandora, Gail, Sharon, Bob, Al, Bruce, etc., etc.

Anonymous said...

Hi All,

Now that Ron Crawford has submitted his name to serve on the County's Committee, see what I mean that the committee will be a waste of time?

Regards, Richard LeGros

Ron said...

Richard, believe me, anyone that can answer this question:

Why did Commissioner Potter call the CSD "bait and switchy" in 2004?

... already knows that committee is a waste of time.

Ron said...

At tomorrow's Board of Supervisor's meeting, they are expected to approve language for the formation of the Technical Advisory Committee.

In the staff report for that item, it reads:

The proposed committee bylaws attached to the resolution provide for a committee to be composed of eleven members:

- one (1) chair,
- the Los Osos CSD District Engineer
- three (3) engineering/water resource members,
- three (3) environmental members, and
- three financial members


If someone reading this plans to speak at the BOS meeting tomorrow, please suggest that the wording in that staff report be changed to also include two (2) history members... people that can speak to the history of the project. That is very important, and there is no mention of it in the staff report at all. If those seats are added, I'll apply for one. And I think an excellent choice for the second spot would be county engineer, George Gibson.

By the way, also in that report, it says they expect for that silly advisory election -- the election to see if Los Osos really, really, really, doesn't want a sewer plant downtown -- to happen in the first half of 2008! You have got be kidding me! Another year-and-a-half of delay? For what?

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Shark

I'm glad "we" stopped TRIW. You will be too when the new project finally gets going :)

Happy Holidays and let's have a great New Year in Los Osos!

Anonymous said...

Shark Inlet and Richard should get a room. It's embarrasing the way Shark stands up for Richard.
Have any other names surfaced with reference to this committee? If one cannot understand how just the mention of the two prominent names being chosen for a committee makes us paranoid, then you haven't followed the history of this.
Richard, as has Shark keeps telling us that Richard was against the Solutions group and forming the CSD. If you can't fight em, join em?
Richard, will you promise not to tell the committee that Tri-W is permited and our only option?
Sincerely, M

Shark Inlet said...

To our friend of 3:34pm ...

If you would be so kind as to share why I will be glad we stopped an expensive project, guarantying a far more expensive project ... I would appreciate it. Please tell me why I should be happier with higher bills!

Anonymous said...

One thing is for sure...if everyone had supported the compromise we would be building right now. Have you read "Wastewater Conflict on Humbolt Bay?" When communities pull together things are much more likely to work out. Then again, you can fight to have a sewer by your library.

Anonymous said...

Anon above,

Your comment is all speculation; and did not happen. The desired action you state is not "for sure", hence you can not state the desired action as a fact.

Speculation of what could of been has litttle weight in solving today's problems.

Anonymous said...

Hi M,

I will tell the committee the following:

1. Tri-W IS designed, permitted, been throughly vented legally, and is ready to go once a new funding source is secured. Construction may recommence by early 2008.

2. An alternate project will have to be designed, permits processed, legally adjudicated, and funded. The process will take at least 5 years. Construction may commence by 2012.

3. Inflation rate in construction is over 8%.

4. Taking time into consideration, Tri-W will cost "X" to build, a new project will cost "Y" to build.

5. Take your pick. Pay "X" or Pay "Y". Either way, your going to pay.

You see M, I do not give a damn if Los Osos builds at Tri-W or elsewhere...just pick a project, build it and get on with life.


My advice is make up your minds...and do not complain what you end up paying.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

Richard, what is your source for "Inflation rate in construction is over 8%"

I would be interested in reading that data.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anon above,

Means Construction Cost Estimator, 2006 edition. Check it out.

Anonymous said...

I was hoping for something more like this:
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/CurrentInflation.asp

Can you provide an actual public source, not a commercial product that you use to estimate your projects?

Somewhere you have read that construction inflation is over 8%... point me right to it please. In black and white.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anon above,

I did.

MEANS is the construction industry source for accurate cost estimating information with regional price adjustment factors.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

Hi anon above,

Just to be nice, try this web site. Please note the 12 month inflation running averages at the summary of the report.

http://www.bdcnetwork.com/university/article/CA6354376.html

Regards, Richard LeGros

Mike Green said...

Inflation dose not change the equasion
at all since it is equal for both X and Y.
It simply adds to the cost,therefor the percentage is moot.
the difference that is important is time.
This is where assumptions take hold, if you assume that the development time would be comparable between X and Y then the added years of development would add greatly to the cost just due to inflation.
To mitigate this, development time would have to be far faster and capital outlay would have to be less.
In other words it would take a very efficiant government procces to achieve.
Richard, I think, assumes thats impossible.
I think he may be right.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mike,

Correct.

Time is the killer of lower costs.

Assume two project that do the same thing (Projects "X" and "Y")with inflation of "?"

If project "X" costs 10 and will be built in 1 year
and
Project "Y" costs 9 and will be built in 5 years.

The inflation costs "?" over 5 years time will result in project "Y" costing more than project "X"

Yeah, I know the equation needs work, but you get the idea.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Mike Green said...

Then my postulate that you assume that efficiant government is impossible is correct?
Thanks for the reply.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

If I assume that you mean that government cannot move fast enough to overcome inflation in regards to Project "X" now or project "Y" later, then your postulate is correct

At this point in time, the government would have to begin with a dramatically lower priced project in todays dollars to even compete with Tri-W built today.

Regards, Richard LeGros

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