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Saturday, January 08, 2011

Shut Up. NO! Sit Down. NO!

Oh, dear, Adam Hill, who’s now taking a turn as being Chairman of the BOS is apparently about to illustrate one definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results. As the Tribune notes, he is asking “ . . . that people be civil and courteous and focus on the issue at hand.” He also “asked speakers to steer clear of personal attacks, rants, threats and slander, adding, ‘I’m not going to tolerate that kind of boorish behavior.”

Let me guess. He was addressing his remarks at people from Los Osos who regularly comment at BOS meetings? Well, good luck with that. As the Tribune reports, Richard Margetson, (who, I believe is actually from Morro Bay? Cayucos? not Los Osos,) once again, (as he had done with Hill’s predecessors who tried the same “civility” speech,) warned Hill to read the Brown Act. Said Margetson,” You really cannot control what’s said.” Added Los Ososian Leon Goldin, “You’re going down the road to all kinds of controversy.”

Ah, waltz me around again, Willie. Dat ol’ Brown Act. Alas. A thorn in every elected official’s side. What the bleep do we do about the bleeping public during public comment? Can’t shut ‘em up. Can’t really censor much of what they say since you’ve got to define all kinds of grey areas that defy definition. How is a strongly held opinion about some issue different from a “rant.” Besides, of course, the old standby: What I have to say is a strongly held opinion. What you have to say, is a rant!

And for the “regular Los Osos speakers,” Hill says they see themselves as victims.

Uh, yeah? I suspect some of these people will be losing their homes because of the Hideous Sewer Project. So, I think the word “victim” pretty well sums that situation up. And considering the, uh, very interesting way this whole “Process” was played then manipulated, the word “angry” certainly comes to mind. So we have a group of Los Ososians who are angry victims who, under the Brown Act, have the right to public comment.

And Hill is asking for “civility?” Let me suggest a different tack. Why not have the Supervisors, instead of sitting stone faced, actually acknowledge a speaker who gets up there and says, “We’re going to lose our home. What do we do?” and answer honestly: “We chose to ignore the promised Design/Build that might have come up with a less expensive system. What we chose and voted on instead, despite all of your “uncivil” pleadings, will likely put a good number of Los Ososians, like yourselves, out of their homes. We don’t know what you should do. We have no answers for you. It’s not our problem any more. We certainly will have staff keep trying to find whatever financial help is out there, and hope for the best. We are very sorry for your troubles, but we can do nothing for you and now it’s time for us to move on. Goodbye and good luck to you.”

Then do what was tried in the past: Set aside a small amount of time, maybe once a week (month?) specifically agendized for Los Osos Sewer Stuff, then if anyone speaks to L.O.S.S. at any other time, they can be hushed up and told to come back at the proper time for that topic.

Other than that, Brown Act still rules and defining “disruption” and ordering ejection via Sheriff will remain a politically tricky option.

80 comments:

The Razor said...

This is breaking news coming out of Arizona. Arizona Democratic congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords, was shot today. Six others were gunned down.

Rep. Giffords was also on Sarah Palin's "aim and reload" target list.

That "target list" is eerily similar to the lists concocted by Mrs. Tornatzky (Taxpayers Watch) and the anonymous "web of hate" that she actively participates with. We also have people like "Mike" who have literally wished for pain and suffering (and yes, even death) of his neighbors.

The incendiary rhetoric you and your ilk produce could lead to problems in Los Osos, Lynette. Same goes for people like Adam Hill, who specifically target a group of people and condemn them for expressing their opinions.

If you want to call for civility, you can do so without the antagonism.

Alon Perlman said...

Back to this blog.
“We’re going to lose our home. What do we do?”
That is a question that is appropriate to ask at any Supervisors meeting. To some extent that is what Ben Difatta does. Reminding the supervisors of the un-affordability, even if the manner and extemporaneous comments may not be decorous or as polite as they could be, remains a basic civic duty. Forgive me for knowing Ben well enough to know that he does it reluctantly. The Taylors have been doing it for years, they invest their time in learning the peripheral issues and attend most CSD committee meetings and the WRAC bringing up cross related items and new material. While his manner and interpretation of the Brown act leave much to be desired, Richard M. has brought about more corrections and changes in the small details of the running-of-the-LOCSD items brought before Committee, then any other person or combinations of people.
That’s about it. Subtract people who are “Sewer Activists” or “Activists” from “Public” and what do you have?
Of course there would be a Chorus of “I told you so”, with Storm drains and sewer lines overflowing County wide. And who didn’t expect there to be a response to “Sole Source Contract” written in the Staff report. But it remains that the project is proceeding as large projects that have received approvals will proceed, and successful micromanagement and micro-engineering of its details by concerned “public” is simply not going to happen.
The post recall-CSD provided Los Osos with a very poor model of an institution following the Brown Act, and the consequence was dysfunction in the committees and a lack of leadership. To some extent that is how the current generation of “Activists” has been trained, and to some extent activists do not feel constrained to the rules any-hoo.
Anyway, I’m getting a little chocked up- here, maybe a little fechalech left over from breakfast time , so rather than go through what the Brown act isn’t, I’ll give you a topic;
Talk amongst yourselves-“GRANDSTANDING”. One word or two?

Sewertoons said...

GREAT post Alon, thank you!

I would say that it was deemed too expensive by some when it was under $40/mo.. Maybe they should have done their moving then when the moving rates were less expensive. Let's face it, almost free was the wrong price too! I would posit there there is a difference between too expensive and not wanting to pay, period.

It's a shame that it came to this. It's a shame for the lies, whether done uncontrollably (delusionally) or willfully.

Churadogs said...

There's an interesting editorial/comment/story in the latest Santa Lucian (Sierra Club) by Andrew Christie. About the mess that Morro Bay's sewer plant upgrade is in now because staff/city council/whatever DID NOT LISTEN to some knowledgeable public "activists"/ commenters who warned them repeatedly, If you go down that road, the CC with kick the can back up the road and you'll have wasted X $ and X time. And they just went down that road anyway. And the CC kicked the can back.

And I have to wonder if hearing the constant false mantra from Los Osos and the BOS that anybody who said anything contrary (to Tri-W, to the County Plan(s) etc,)or brought up ANY objections, no mater how well founded, were all just "crazies," or "anti-sewer obstructionists" or "grandstanding" made it so easy for Morro Bay to dismiss those voices (after all, everybody knows, they're just "anti-sewer obstructionists")and block-headedly go on to waste time and money and now have to hear the words, "I told you so." The BOS heard plenty of serious, accurate, excellent information from serious, informed citizens, all of whom were branded crazies or "anti-sewer obstructionists" when they were no such thing. Repeat that big lie enough, and it becomes received wisdom. Thus accurate Casandras are demeaned and dismissed and the result is a very costly can flying back along the road for a do-over.

That seems to be the M.O. on large public works, I guess.

Churadogs said...

So, the Razor posts a link about the shooting of a Congresswoman in AZ, notes that she's on Palin's lock 'n load list, implies that the two are connected, then segues to Adam Hill and Lynette, impling that "targeting" others with whom you disagree can lead to . . . shooting? THEN the RAZOR posts a link where somebody has posted Richard Margetson's [publicly known]contact information (address, phone, etc.) (which I dumped.)
So, RAZOR, what's the implication here? What's your intention of posting that link? What connection do you want the reader to make here? Are they supposed to go shoot Richard? (Here, I've posted his contact info.) Or go shoot Lynett? (I'll post that next.)
What?

Mike said...

Ann, perhaps you are mistaken... The Razor only promotes peace in Los Osos...

Posted in the Tribune on 1/8/2011 by the Razor:

"It doesn't matter if it's public record. You posted his personal mailing address... and your name is "Violence_Of_Action." And for full disclosure, I, too, have posted people's personal information, but never was it within the context of hostility. I think you should pull that information."

Comment was copied in total as it appeared...

Can you believe he said "....have posted people's personal information, but never within the context of hostility...."

Sorry, but that admission is pretty scary, he has taken it upon his self to judge what is hostile and what is simply comment... That posting inthe Tribune isn't some innocent thought, it's reflective of an on-going campaign of terror. The Razor has sent many threatening letters to many people over this sewer issue... The Razor actively seeks out the identity and background of all he personally disagrees... He actively seeks to discredit them any way he can...!!! He's tried it with me and he'll try it with YOU...!!!

We all have see the Razor using HIS enuendo to fan the flames to his self determined, one-sided view of 'Right' in any emotional issue... He apparently believes only he is 'Right' and damn those he does not agree with.

I don't always agree with you Ann, but you are right on this morning... "The Razor" is playing a dangerous game... That game is precisely why I will never give my name out on this blog... I do not wish that little boy and his equally nasty father to either directly or through inciting some other loose cannon to attack my home or harm my family... and everyone in this community should be aware of his potential for inciting violence...

The Razor said...

Ann,

What happened yesterday in Tuscon, Arizona is an indication that everyone, including myself, need to tone it down especially now because of our current hostile, nationwide political climate.

Sheriff Clarence Dupnik of Pima County, who is overseeing the investigation involving Rep. Giffords, had this to say yesterday:

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous."

What was the point I was making? Stop the nonsense.

Where are the threatening letters? Care to cite proof?

M said...

I think you're a little over the top on this Razor. Just like most everybody in other comment sections blaming radio host such as Michael Savage, Rush, Hannity, etc. What about Keith Olberman? You think he stirs up a little bit of vitriol? Sure I get mad when I listen to some rants. But do I act out on it? No. 99.99% of people don't. Actually, I thought of it before Dave Congalton brought on his website, what about when Ronald Reagan was shot? How about when an attempt was made on Gerald Ford? The way MOST politicians are not listening to what we tell them, it is surprising to me this sort of thing doesn't happen more often. I think it speaks of what this country was built on and how the majority of us still try to effect change in an acceptable manner.
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

Wow - been busy - missed all of this. I was still stuck last night on this comment by Mr. Ed a two articles down from this one, regarding Mike and myself:

Mr. Ed says,
"P.S. Mike was obviously never right about anything in his whole miserable life, which is why you two work so well together in hate. You'll have to live with that as your "contribution" to Los Osos. Now that you've fouled your own nest in LO with your elitism and greed, good luck in the future... if you have one!"

I'll just let that one ominously hang and move onto other topics.

I'd like to ask the question if any of these sewer additions brought about by the sewer-expert public has lowered the cost of our project any? Are their interjections likely to lower the cost to Morro Bay residents?

My advice to those people would be to not complain about the cost of a project that they helped to raise, it just makes them look like they don't know what they're doing.

Alon Perlman said...

At this point in time we all know what obsessive attention seeking trollish behavior is. Also; Who the Oches are, and what they are not, and what a complete waste of time it is to engage with a troll, no matter what the bait dangled looks like.
Thank you, Mike for “mench”ing up, and developing some “Bell awareness”.
That is a fine example you posted, but we HERE know that “It was never” OUT of “the context of Hostility.”
Since you brought it up, this links to the Trib Discussion thread about BOS Public comment, and to your quotes. Look to the posting before that (beneath). My intention is to point out the exchanges between RazorOnline and RightOn as typical of two trolls going head to head in schoolyard fashion. Note how clearly this is a turf war about turf and has nothing to do with the original subject events or politics outside the schoolyard.

alonatwork said...

Bob Cuddy wrote an article about this, (but he misspelled “Aaron” as “Kenny”).
Mike, I hope you continue to interact with Ann on the basis of the common ground, as a starting point.
I differ from Ann in that I think that the volume tone and content of public Comment Especially in Los Osos Public comment spilling over to Morro Bay, actually diluted the message. I hope to continue this after I’ve looked at Andrew’s comments in the Santa Lucian.

The Razor said...

I do agree with you, M. Both your opinions and mine can coexist. But there are people who appeal to the lowest common denominator and there are people on the fringe right -- and yes, even on the left -- who consist of that .01% in our country who value violence over virtue.

I want to believe that 99.99% of people in this country are trying to effect change in an acceptable manner. I want to believe it, but when I hear about these threats made against our politicians, it's hard to believe that 99.99% of Americans are 100% against the vitriol.

Also, for additional reading, I have a rebuttal for Ann.

The Razor said...

Now, pay attention to the person who posted above me. Notice how Alon never posted my complaint about him after Lynette posted my complaint about her.

Here is the formal complaint.

Here is the e-mail he sent (private information redacted).

If you look at the PDF (e-mail), he makes two threats. One that's direct and one that's indirect.

First paragraph (DIRECT): "please consider
removing todays post, I can easily esculate this"

Second to last paragraph (INDIRECT): "that's fine we can get along, but you will be wise to call me. an esculation surves neither of us, but having committed some unnecessary time to your indulgences, I hope I am not tempted."

The cops thought they were threats. Don't take my word for it.

Alon Perlman is a hypocrite, plain and simple. The evidence is there.

Mike said...

After reading Aaron Och's "rebuttal", I was struck by the insanity in his message... It is sincerely hoped that the authorities are keeping a close eye on the young man...

Would you really want him to know who you are and where you live, especially if he disagrees with you...???

alonatwork said...

Buggy internet today- 2 parts of the middle of one long rant.
I doubt we can add to the discussion of this Arizona national tragedy, unless Ann uses her powers to further isolate some point. (Crazy dude Hinklies a representative of the people in context of nastier national politics, calls for conciliation abound, but the implication and finger pointing are used to further divide the nation, lather, rinse, repeat)

alonatwork said...

2b <A href="http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2011/01/08/1435534/congressional-officials-say-congresswoman.html#disqus_thread” rel=”nofollow”> assassination discussion (page two of eight)</a>. Please pay attention to the RightOn’s interchange with Hat_Chew, note how <b>formulaic </b>the Troll’s language is. In fact at one time I thought this was the other “RO”- so similar and so boringly repetitive, and so desperate to win and have the last word. (Hat-Chew is me posting <b>Nonymously</b>). This is the archetype. Learn to identify trolls AND THEN….Don’t Feed The Trolls. EVER (U-2 M)

alonatwork said...

assassination discussion (page two of eight)andrew's article will have to wait.

Mr. Ed said...

Hey Lynette... Got guilt?

Is sicko Alon secretly in love/hate with "the little boy" in his head? He doesn't talk about anybody else!!!! Nothing grosser than looking in your rear-view mirror and seeing a pale old dude with a ponytail following you on a tricycle. Are you a registered sex offender???? I know there's a bunch of them in LO.

I'm constantly amazed on how you trolls and moles NEVER fail to fail... It's in your DNA, why losers remain losers forever.

What a "crowd"! A couple of hysterical, out-of-touch old dilettantes with serious reading comprehension and critical thinking issues, a permanently-confused eunuch, and the most violent death-wishing blogger in LO -- all scared of their own shadows, all holding hands!!!! What is that????

No wonder the town is soooo SCREWED -- as Bo said. You remember Bo, right Lynette? Right Mike?

A little knowledge in the wrong hands is a dangerous thing, as is proved here over and over. The town is just too misled, too cracked, too dumbed down to tie its own mental shoelaces to respond intelligently to save its own life.

So you're getting the sewer you deserve, no matter what you imagine you fought for or against, because you're all just too damn DUMB or TWISTED to know the difference.

You dreamed it, now live it.

Mike said...

...and the winner is...???

Why it must be Mr Ed Ochs...the most sane blogger in Los Osos...

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

You say, "Are their interjections likely to lower the cost to Morro Bay residents?..."

Are you wanting MWH in Morro Bay too? Why? Perc could do the job for less money and you know it.

As I've said before, Janice Peter's brother subcontracts for MWH. And of course we have recycled MWH employees working for the City.

This, most definitely, is the most corrupt County anywhere!!

Sewertoons said...

PERC bowed out of Morro Bay so what does that have to do with it anymore?

What I said was the ideas floating about from the eco-vocalistas are likely to raise the price of the plant as they did here.

Here, these two articles might be of interest to you from a city that used PERC:

http://www.santapaulatimes.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/21053/Council:_Ad_hoc_committee_to_study_disputed_$1.667_million_PERC_claim.html

http://www.ci.santa-paula.ca.us/agenda/10agenda10_01s.pdf

hugh jass said...

Alon is not making sense again, Lynette is on her same tired tirade, bad mouthing people whose IQ is far superior to hers & Mike (LeGros) can rant all he wants about the "violence displayed in other people"...He's one of the most unstable & violent people(other than AB) that I have EVER seen. I recall vividly his "EMOTIONAL OUTBURST" at one of the LOCSD meetings! Talk about a tirade!
Sincerely,
Hugh Jass

Mike said...

HaHaHa.. Sorry, but huge jass has made up yet another of those enuendo tales... Since I've never made an "emotional outburst" in the LOCSD or even the BOS meetings, huge ?ass is only making things up...

BTW, Richard is a good friend, but I am still not him... Keep changing your post names, but you are still only wishful guessing... Maybe I'm one of your neighbors who is sick of the continueing war of words...

The County has the project, the sewer is coming and the LOCSD (assuming it somehow survives the bankruptcy) will never, ever build the sewer...!!!!

If you fought against the sewer, then thank you for creating the high bills coming our way....

Churadogs said...

Razor sez:"What was the point I was making? Stop the nonsense."

Stop the nonsense? So Why did YOU post that link that had Richard's contact information right next to a posting on a shooting, etc? I want you to specifically address that question. You do not "stop the nonsense" by joining a piece on a shooting with a link with "target" information. So, I will ask again: Why did you post that link? Exactly what was the "message" there? Why did you pick Margetson to link to? Please be as specific as possible.

You posted as The Razor (since this is a EO / AO-free zone, this posting can't be excused away as merely a personal hit piece by an out of control, paranoid, ankle-chewing individual) The Razor wishes to be viewed as a responsible publication/paper/journal/blog, right? Therefore, The Razor had to have had a responsible reason for posting a link listing Margetson's info. What was it?

Lynette sez:"I'd like to ask the question if any of these sewer additions brought about by the sewer-expert public has lowered the cost of our project any? Are their interjections likely to lower the cost to Morro Bay residents?"

You're overlooking the cost involved by having to go back and re-do something that should have been done right the first time. If you ignore the CC's requirements, for example, you'll never get a permit and will then have to pay for a do-over in order to get that permit. That's apparently what Morro Bay's facing now. ka-ching! mo' money. And that's what happened with Los Osos and the spray fields, etc. Remember, if you delay, you pay? Morro Bay will now pay for the do-over delay.

On the other hand, I sure do hope a viable total wastewater reuse system can be set up. In the long term it'll stand Morro Bay/Cayucos in good stead, methinks. (Actually, all of Calif. should be on total reuse, IMHO)

Mike, Alon & others. If you want to personally chew on AO or EO's ankles, do it on their blog or your own blogs, not here. Ditto for The Razor, take your personal quarrels with Mike or Alon back to your own blog.

Unless you want to now claim that AO and EO and The Razor are all one in the same? If it is, then this blog will have to become an AO & EO & Razor-free zone. So, which is it?

hugh jass said...

Actually, I would LOVE to see the LOCSD dissolved. I didn't want it when Pandora was pushing for it & I sure as hell don't want it NOW.We couldn't afford it then & the situation is far worse today. Richard, please get off the sewer topic for awhile...just give it a rest. Oh, I forgot, you're such a dolt, that you can only speak on ONE topic.
Sincerely,
hugh jass

Sewertoons said...

Thanks Ann for continuing challenging the razor, eo and ao on their postings. You are asking the right questions! As a victim of their creepiness I appreciate it.

Now as to the sprayfields, where else could they go? The Clark Valley people had the very same objections that part of the town had. Could they really say "we'll listen to the people in-town on these reasons but not you people out-of-town for those same reasons?" If you looked at the numbers, it was 51% of the town wanting the location moved and maybe 80% of out-of-town wanting it moved. This isn't Chicago, but California, they had to "play fair."

Citizens stirring up the Coastal Commission by personally contacting them had a huge influence on what the Coastal Commission said and did which ate up time. I mean really - the staging area needed looking at? That horse-trampled piece of ground? Move the plant to the other side of the road to Gorby? Etc..

(Spray fields were done with by CC time anyway. There was a huge waste of time trying to get Step back on the table at the CC however.)

In any case, what happened there raised the cost. Fine - it's "better" - so don't go crying about the cost! Those "improvements" all cost money!

Mr. Ed said...

Mike, Alon & others. If you want to personally chew on AO or EO's ankles, do it on their blog or your own blogs, not here. Ditto for The Razor, take your personal quarrels with Mike or Alon back to your own blog.

How quickly you were ignored! How 'bout one more personal attack from the town trash?

Lunetta Berti: Thanks Ann for continuing challenging the razor, eo and ao on their postings. You are asking the right questions! As a victim of their creepiness I appreciate it.

FYI: The Rock and Razor has NEVER attacked anyone who didn't attack us first... though we ignored it for years. Now we are pleased to deliver frontier justice to the liars and criers wherever necessary.

Lynette is a victimizer playing the role of the victim. How weak and feeble a coward is the Taxpayers Witch?

The Razor said...

Thank you for asking questions, Ann, instead of making presumptions. I appreciate it.

Why did YOU post that link that had Richard's contact information right next to a posting on a shooting, etc?

I wanted to show the lengths that the "dreamers" will go to in order to go after someone like Richard Margetson for exercising his freedom of speech.

Anticipating that the comment by "Violence_of_Action" would be removed (just like Lynette's comments about Bo and others, which were ultimately deleted), I took a screenshot.

I left the information unredacted to avoid comments about the screenshot being "doctored," or modified in any shape or form.

You do not "stop the nonsense" by joining a piece on a shooting with a link with "target" information.

I agree with you, but I was drawing an analogy between Sarah Palin's "candidate target list," and how the "dreamers" do their own targeting of individuals who they disagree with.

Exactly what was the "message" there?

What happened in Arizona could happen in Los Osos if we don't take a stand against the animus and stop the nonsense now.

Why did you pick Margetson to link to?

On the same thread where the comments were made, the anonymous targeted Margetson for his comments that were featured in Bob Cuddy's Los Osos article, which was published on Friday.

On the very same day that the Arizona assassination attempt happened, a person by the name of "Violence_of_Action" posted Richard Margetson's personal information and realtor license information, and encouraged people to exercise their "freedom of choice" to go after his business and trade.

Coincidence?

Also, I have asked people to go to my blog if they have a personal comment about me, but you should remind Mrs. Tornatzky because she initiated the attacks on 10:13 PM, January 04, 2011. There was no "ankle-chewing" between the time she left and the time she came back.

Mike said...

Given the paranoid and immature rationale of the Razor, aka aaron ochs and ed ochs, why would anyone post anything on the Razors website...???? They WILL track you thru your e-address and will ultimately post your home address and employer as he already has done...!!!!

That is not contrived, that is bluntly a statement of very recent facts...

The Razor said...

The "ankle-chewing" isn't going to stop until you dump these guys.

Ann wrote, "Mike, Alon & others. If you want to personally chew on AO or EO's ankles, do it on their blog or your own blogs, not here."

Mike and Lynette already dismissed this.

Mike says, "Given the paranoid and immature rationale..."

Then Mike writes, "They WILL track you thru your e-address and will ultimately post your home address and employer as he already has done...!!!!"

We're not Big Brother. It is impossible for a webmaster to "track" someone through their e-mail address and "post [their] home address and employer" from that. It's so impossible, not even I can do that, and I haven't.

To even make that claim and say it is "bluntly a statement of very recent facts" shows paranoia and immaturity. He's also very, very wrong.

Off-topic again, Mikeeeeee.

Churadogs said...

The Razor sez:"Thank you for asking questions, Ann, instead of making presumptions. I appreciate it.

I'm not buying this for a minute. You could have just as easily discussed the issues you claim to be connecting (violence/shooting; posting contact info) by noting that some person posted personal info without "snapshoting" and linking it. The reader would get the point without the personal info being conveniently handed to them just a click away. What you did reminds me of the phony politician who prints up huge posters of all kinds of child porn and displays them at a public meeting and when called on it, claims he's only "educating" the public, meanwhile pointing and hollering loudly, "Look at THIS one, oooo and THIS one here!"

Feh.

If you pull that crap again, I'll do like I did with Crapkiller who threatened to publish assessment votes. And make this a Razor-free zone.

Razor sez:'The "ankle-chewing" isn't going to stop until you dump these guys."

Once again, you reserve the right to stick pins in people (BTW, your snark piece on me got the title wrong: I am not now and never have been a town "historian." Just an opinion columnist. But the cartoon? I don't have a full sized umbrella, but other than that, why, it's sooooo Meeeee.) and when they return the favor you scream like scalded cats. I hate to remind you, as a "publisher" of a "public" whatever-the-Razor-is, you're in a very, very hot public kitchen. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Babbling on about defending your honor and family's honor and claiming you're being "attacked!" and threatened is hysterical horse pucky. Get a grip. You're a "public" figure. Grow up. When these idiots get too stupid, I'll dump them like I'll dump you.

Meantime, you know perfectly well that anyone who reacts seriously to whatever lie an "anonymous" poster says is a fool. Or has some serious, personal psychological issues that need attention. NOTHING "Mikee" has to say about anything has ANY credibility whatsoever because Mikee makes stuff up, lies a great deal and is a cowardly "anonnymouse" who hasn't the courage of his convictions. In short, he's an idiot and if you take his comments seriously, you're the bigger fool.

I will say again, nothing posted by annymice has ANY credibility. None. Zero.

and sez:"We're not Big Brother. It is impossible for a webmaster to "track" someone through their e-mail address and "post [their] home address and employer" from that. It's so impossible, not even I can do that, and I haven't."

But you DID "snapshot" (and did not redact) and hot-linked contact nformation on Margetson, didn't you?

So, O.K. kiddies. Pull up your big boy pants, wipe the snot from your noses, and play nice.

Churadogs said...

And let me add another observation here. Each and every one of you who posts comments here are totally in charge of your own selves. You are adults. You and you alone chose your words and your reactions to other words. Attacking someone who's behaving like an irresponsible, stupid child by claiming that you're "defending yourself" and anyway, "Johnny hit me first" only indicates that you've ceased to be the adult and are now operating like a child.

Which means you then expect me to act like a Mommy and come and referee your whiney tantrums and food fights and wipe your little bottoms and noses.

Feh.

You're adults. Act like it.

Mike said...

Ann...

Ann Calhoun signed the PZLDF Lawsuit... True, NOT made up..!!!

The PZLDF DID NOT pay 75% of the legal fees per the "Agreement" with the LOCSD...

TRUE OR FALSE...????

Of course if PZLDF says they indeed paid, please show what the true TOTAL cost of that lawsuit was. That should put away any concerns about taxpayers paying for a private lawsuit against the State of California... If no one can provide an answer, then this community must consider that the PZLDF and the CSD5 were only lying and that would amount to admission of theft of public funds...!!!!

PLEASE SHOW ME THAT I'M WRONG...!!!! Otherwise, Ann, YOU are just making up stories...!!!!

Alon Perlman said...

I think it has been adequately established by this string, as to who is living in the REAL Los Osos, and who is bouncing around inside their own skulls. Thanks for going on to the next topic/posting Ann. I think that:
1. Morro-Bay is not Los Osos.
2. While I like Betty and would liked to have seen PERC get a shot, the people of Morro Bay have by a narrow margin made their choices.
3. Andrew is correct in that the coastal commission's rejection
was predicted by his (and others) earlier remarks and on the basis of location alternates and disposal alternatives technicalities. Primarily a failure of adoption of a proper regulatory mindset by the city.
4. "MWH is the devil" represents a failure of activists and activist wanna-bees to adopt a proper regulatory mindset.
5. It was funny looking at cartoon, still, as I posted earlier, that is not faithfull to describing someone who wears and is a broad color pallate, perhaps indicating the dunn filters worn.
beware the jaded Eye of the beholder.

Aaron said...

"But you DID "snapshot" (and did not redact) and hot-linked contact information on Margetson, didn't you?"

Wait a second. You just said, "[Mike]'s an idiot and if you take his comments seriously, you're the bigger fool," and then you try to justify his paranoia by saying I made a snapshot.

I posted a snapshot of somebody else making those comments. It's not that difficult to do. Next to the F12 key on your keyboard, there's a "Print Screen" key. Press it, and voila! You made a screenshot. Look down at your keyboard. Everyone who has a keyboard has this feature.

This has nothing to do with "tracking" someone's e-mail address and retrieving their home address and employer information. I just pressed one key.

Ann, right now, you're swinging and missing. I specifically explained to you my reasoning, but you choose to not understand it or even accept it. I've been trying (calmly) to educate you on these matters, but every time I exert any effort, you embrace the "ankle-chewing" that you constantly threaten to dump.

Not only do you embrace it, you use your own articles to "ankle-chew" me, calling me "irrelevant" -- a rather ambiguous, dismissive label (didn't you chide people for using false branding at one time?) -- without showing any critical faculty to explain why.

Get a grip, Ann. Don't be so flamboyantly ignorant.

Sewertoons said...

MWH being corrupt was brought up at today's BOS meeting.

I just wish the BOS would clearly state in 100 pt type, red letters, that the TYPE of project for Los Osos is NOT going to change. Not that this would stop some commenters…

It also seems clear that we could lose out big time if this project does not go ahead in a timely manner.

The Razor said...

Ann,

You talk about me "ankle-chewing," and then you compare me to a politician who posts child porn. That's a rather wicked, false analogy. You said it yourself: Richard Margetson's information is public, thus legally obtainable.

After all, "Violence_of_Action" went to the State of California Department of Real Estate database to retrieve it. It's not even remotely in the form of illegality as child porn. The problem was the manner and timing of this person's post, given what happened in Tuscon on the same day and the person urging others to go after his business.

"I am not now and never have been a town historian.'"

That's not what the "Chumash" (gas station) mural organizers said. I believe you're credited on the mural -- unless there's another Ann Calhoun that lives in Los Osos.

"Babbling on about defending your honor and family's honor and claiming you're being 'attacked!' and threatened is hysterical horse pucky."

What's so hysterical about proving hypocrisy? You're off again, Ann.

"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

If I couldn't stand the heat, I would have been out of the kitchen a long time ago. If I couldn't stand the heat, I would have never created a blog. Sounds like you spend a lot of time on other planets than Earth.

The Razor said...

Click here for all of the comments I posted today.

luneto said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
luneto said...

The blog software is acting up again. My comment before last was erased. Maybe if I do this in chunks…
Ann,

"An IP address is the Internet Protocol (IP) address given to every computer connected to the Internet. An IP address is needed to send information, much like a street address or P.O. box is needed to receive regular mail."

www.wikihow.com/Trace-an-IP-Address

luneto said...

I'm not the one changing my name here - for some reason I'm suddenly being identified by "luneto" on this blog - but I am still Lynette Tornatzky or sewertoons.

luneto said...

I'll log out and log back in to see if that fixes this sudden name change.

Mike said...

Is there a parallel between a mentally unbalanced young, uneducated, inexperienced, extreme activist in Tucson and one in Los Osos (if indeed his family still lives in Los Osos)...????

Alon Perlman said...

Grab your sippicups and go to the main room, Clap, Clap, Naptime!

Other good topics; 1st New CSD comments.
Word verification:copso

Sewertoons said...

Been doing something else.

When I got back to this, this is what Google said:


"Verify your account
We've detected unusual activity on your account. To immediately restore access to your account, type your phone number below."

Then,

"Access to your Google Account has been restored
Now that you've regained access, would you like more protection against strangers trying to hijack your account? Consider setting up 2-step verification.
Using 2-step verification will help prevent strangers from accessing your account. When you sign in, you'll verify your identity with both a password and a single-use code that you receive from a mobile application or phone message."

Well that seems like a pain, hope I don't need to go there.

Mr. Ed said...

Blogger Mike said...

Is there a parallel between a mentally unbalanced young, uneducated, inexperienced, extreme activist in Tucson and one in Los Osos (if indeed his family still lives in Los Osos)...????

12:59 PM, January 11, 2011


This is exactly what Ann Calhoun and Calhouns Can(n)ons is all about -- serving as a nursery for Taxpayers Watch mental defects, sex offenders and moral rejects, and incubating the division and violence that consumes the community. It's all here, preserved in one place, the center of community hate -- just a click away.

Mike's post is a good illustration of who Ann Calhoun really is and always has been -- a willing enabler of the community's worst and lowest bottom-feeders who have long found comfort and shelter under her weak apron.

The larger community rejects this kind of digital flophouse and the vermin who nest here.

Sewertoons said...

To continue my original point:

Here is a quote off of the razor's blog:

"If you want to get down to the nitty gritty, I found out about you two days ago using some IP address tracing. You used a Mazatlán, Mexico proxy to access my site (xxx.xxx.xx.xxx-real number redacted by me, LT), which is laudable, but if only the proxy wasn't so transparent that I could trace it all the way back to your IP address at AOL…"

"I banned the IP address…"


My home phone number was posted on YouTube video mocking me created by aaron. County counsel had to inform aaron that it is illegal to publish County staff's home addresses which he had done.


This is just further "amplification" and scope of aaron's tactics and ethics.

The Razor said...

Because Ann's blog is having some glitches, here are my comments regarding Mrs. Tornatzky.

More "ankle-chewing," please.

The Razor said...

The problem, as I see it, that my critics -- if you want to call them "critics" -- never look at what they've said or done and reflect on that. I've been waiting to read someone say, "Well, maybe I did some things I shouldn't have, but what you did was out of line."

There's none of that. Instead, it's the never-ending blame game. That's all there is. Nobody on Calhoun's Cannon has had the courage to challenge the issues, just the person and only the person. "You're an 'obstructionist.'" "This is who you are and what you do, period."

It's disappointing. Then again, it's not my site. It's Ann's party and she can cry if she wants to. It's just not a party worth going to.

Mike said...

The more the razor, the rock, aaron and mr ed talk, the deeper they show that they (or is it just aaron?) are off the deep end...

Hopefully law enforcement is monitoring the mental instability exhibited by the ochs...

Their continueing postings are getting further and further from reality and deeper toward a violent fantasy... They have lost all sight of the clean water issues or even the CSD bankruptcy facing Los Osos... To further respond to the rabid blathering of these mentally unstable people is a waste of time... They have their or his, own blog, why are they still forcing their way on this blog...???

The Razor said...

Mike says, "Their continueing [sic] postings are getting further and further from reality and deeper toward a violent fantasy..."

Violent fantasy... you mean like this?

Mike wrote, "Now can I wish Bo Cooper goodbye... sounds like he's going to be packing up soon.."

Doesn't sound too good, coming from a guy who also hopes for people to have strokes.

Sewertoons said...

Hi Mr.Ed. I'm sorry that you are stressing out so much, you don't sound at all like the Ed I knew, liked and respected at all. I hope that you are taking care of yourself - you know, the simple stuff like eating and sleeping. Not doing those things can make everything look pretty bad at times. I hope this is not the cause of your clear unhappiness. I truly hope that things change for you so you can return to being you. Hey you sound as bad as I looked when I sent you my shingles picture, remember that?

Mr. Ed said...

Hi Sewertoons,
It's very simple and always has been: If you change your routine ever so slightly I can go back to being me (I'm not holding my breath). I am not a blogger like you and have better things to do with my time than police you and your frito banditos from Hell's (Calhoun's) Kitchen. I actually have a job and this isn't it.
However, if you persist, you leave me no choice but to match your tone and content as long as necessary until you change the channel. I prefer to go about my business, and hope you prefer to do the same, whatever your "business" actually is. But I am prepared to redouble efforts if that's what floats your boat. It's up to you.
P.S. I'm focusing on you because Alon and Richard have long histories of violence, you only have shingles. :)

hugh jass said...

Mike(LeGros), I have a flash for you...law enforcement has more important things to do than to pay attention to your stupid,insipid prattle. You are an arrogant dumb A$$ & are completely non important. We're sick of reading your crap. All you want to do is TRY to humiliate people, you're like an unruly child, get over it & grow up. The community has spoken where YOU are concerned. You showed your true colors at that imfamous LOCSD Board meeting. You remember the one I'm talking about? Not impressive, to say the least.

Sewertoons said...

OK Mr.Ed, I'll try to parse out what that means.

The things that make you angry seem to be my stating that Step systems are not cheaper, I support a gravity system, that the Lisa Board made horrible mistakes, the old project could not be expanded to accommodate growth, the Wrecklamator guy was a fraud and that I think Gail really misled a lot of people. So if I don't mention those things you are OK?

Why do you think calling Ann's column "Hell's Kitchen" will make me want to respond in a positive manner? Why do you have the need to "police" anyone? What damage do you think that I have done to you?

Anyway, I hope you got your shingles shot!

Mr. Ed said...

Sewertoons,

No, no, no, no, your anti-STEP/gravity bias is your own business! No problem there. Same for Lisa, Tri-W, Wrecklamator or Gail, who I agree with you about wholeheartedly -- "she misled a lot of people"! A whole town.

But all of that is just politics, if you enjoy rolling in the mud a little... OK, but I'd rather not.

You can mention all of the above freely. I'm no censor -- love the language too much.

I called Ann's site "Hell's Kitchen" for what cooks here. Which is mostly personal attacks and character assassination attempts, which again I know of course won't end. I don't much mind your little mis- and dis-information campaigns, as frustrating as they are to those more informed than yourself (nothing personal). All I ask is that you leave my family out of your discussion since I don't see my name on your laundry list of topics above. That's also the "why" part of your question.

I can't explain how -- "Luck of The Rock" you might say -- but I was able to go back in your blog histories under all your aliases and catalog everything you every said about me and my family -- long after I naively realized some comments were made at the same time we were running and having coffee and after. Now you know.

I woke up late to all this.

What damage have you done to me personally? I would say none. It's just politics. I'm over 30. But that's me. Leave my family out of it and we might discuss what damage me or my kin have done to you, if any, and undoing it.

You probably know me better than most, in some ways. So you can imagine the rest and have a better than 50/50 chance of being right.

Mike said...

This is so much fun... The same wonderful people, sounding off the same wonderful way... I sure miss the "civil" performances by Kieth, Al, Alan, Joey, Julie, Bud, Chuck, and of course Piper... and let's not forget Gail.... I don't know how Stan, Richard and Gordon were able to stay awake with all that quiet discourse going on around them...

Yup, I sure learned alot...!!! Hope I can act just like them...

Hope you all remember those "civil" days and loooong nights...!!!! Weren't they fun....??? Thanks for reminding me of all that fun...!!!!

Maybe now someone can refresh my memory as to WHY the PZLDF never paid their portion of their personal lawsuit...???? Ann, OU signed that lawsuit, did you pay your portion of that "Agreement"...??? Any reason you never respond....??? Have I hit a nerve....???

Sewertoons said...

Mr. Ed says,
"…but I was able to go back in your blog histories under all your aliases and catalog everything you every said about me and my family."

Well, I now see why you feel the way that you do! But how do I defend this? I am very willing to apologize if I did these things, if I did them - and I sure don't know if that will make any difference now, but I do have some comments:


Isn't it illegal to get information like that which is given out in privacy?

How did you obtain this information?

How do I know if I said the stuff you claim I did? I sure don't have any records as to what I said years ago!

Where do I get to view this information to verify that I said it?

Why blow up over it now?

I blogged as "anon" or "anonymous" or somesuch at the beginning.

What are all my aliases? I have been improperly identified on this blog - I am not Chris, for instance.

This is kind of creepy - keeping a dossier on me - why do that?

People have said a lot of nasty things about me due to my politics - (remember Howie?) but I just say - so what?

Sewertoons said...

Oh, and people said nasty things about my pasty complexion - but again - so what?

Mr. Ed said...

Sewertoons,

No, no, no... I'm not "blowing up" about it now... and I have no "dossier" on you or anything like that, you knucklehead! Of course I don't know "anons." How did I find out? Simple: a friend I didn't know I had. You are as surprised as I was then, but not everyone wants an unaffordable sewer in LO like you.

So no apologies sought, none required. Only that I asked YOU to keep my family off your topic list and you have not responded thus far. I'm not sure how to take that. I don't intend to "police" you if that worries you, it's a waste of my time; on the other hand I don't want to have to remind you if it's brought to my attention that you've slipped on an acorn.

I'm glad it's all just politics to you, just a game. It never was to me.

Sewertoons said...

Ah Ed, are we back to being friends I hope? You and Pam ARE off limits to me and have been as long as I have known you. Honestly, Aaron is the only one ragging on me and as long as certain limits are kept, it's OK. If he leaves me alone, I leave him alone. I think the posting of my phone # on YouTube was over the line, as was the letter to the CSD.

I don't get why I am so interesting as a topic for him at all. I'm a blogger on a blog that is read by -maybe- 15 people. I only once-in-a-while speak at a CSD meeting and almost never at the Supes. With no political aspirations I'm kind of an invisible person despite my compulsive attendance at sewer meetings. (However, an unknown lady at the hair salon remembered me by my big, pasty face on those billboards from 2006. But that's it.)

I would be careful of a "friend" like this one. How do you know to trust that what they say about my blogging is true?

I know it's not a game to you and it's not a game to me either. But we are very much the come-lately's to the scene. Affordable was gone before we got here. There is no affordable sewer any more. That time was over in the 80s and 90s.

Mike said...

Say Mr Ed, to where did YOU move this time...??? It's being mentioned around town that you no longer live in Los Osos... I wouldn't want to know your address, but if you no longer live here...???

Mr. Ed said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mr. Ed said...

Sure, Mike, send me your address and I'll send you mine. How many people do you think would like to know where you live???? The Coopers? Schickers? Tackers? Barrow? I know you don't care about them but they care about you, about finding you. How would you like to have all those folks at your door???? How about just Barrow????

That's why you're anonymous. That's why you're a scared coward. You know exactly what would happen if your name got out... don't you? You'd never be able to go to the beauty parlor again.

The Razor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Razor said...

Lynette, as long as you're civil to everyone, I will not have a problem with you. I would have never mentioned your name or likeness had you were more respectful to others from the start.

Your political opinions do not agitate me. It's how you express your opinions -- and who you express your opinions to -- that concerns me. I can't control what you say and how you say it, and I won't. All I hope is for you to take a step back, look at yourself, and ask yourself, "Will it build goodwill and better friendships?"

That question is from the Rotary International Club's "4-Way Test." Before you demean people like Lisa, Julie, or whoever you think is "anti-sewer," think about your words. Ask yourself that question.

It's late, and I'm tired of the arguing. Just to wrap up the night on a positive note, I wanted to apologize, Lynette. I apologize for letting my hardened sense of justice overwhelm my ability to be reasonable. I should not have posted your phone number as a response to you posting my information. Two wrongs don't make a right. I will refrain from doing unreasonable things that distract people from my message (i.e. proving hypocrisy by doing something hypocritical).

Hostility is now rescinded.

Sewertoons said...

Thank you Ed and Aaron, let's get off to a fresh start then by all of us being civil. I'll bet Ann was getting sick of this anyway. Sorry Ann! Pax!

Sewertoons said...

I'd like to thank Ann for putting up with this stuff. I hope others will follow suit. Her blog is a valuable meeting place for we, the sewer addicted. I'd hate to see it go away or the comments turned off.

Even if I do not always agree with her opinions, she has been more than patient with my rants and has not banned me. She deserves a thank you for being a gracious hostess to us all.

Mike said...

I'll echo 'toons comments...

I only became involved with these blogs over a very personal matter and stayed to see what those who agreesively vented against the Tri-W facility were saying... There is no reasoning with such extreme view points...

I also watched and learned some of the behind the scenes manuvers by some of the extreme personalities, some who have posted here and everywhere, some continue to try to impose their personal views on the responsible agencies who, like it or not, are working for the betterment of this community and society in general... That's MY view point..!!!

As to the last item I've pursued and am not surprised by the lack of answer about the CSD5/PZLDF "Agreement"...

After some recent conversations, I am now convinced that the doings of the CSD5 and PZLDF have not gone unnoticed by the County and State authorities... What amounts to a "Gift of Public Funds" is indeed being looked into, including the legal counsel and tax ramifications...

That being said, I'll continue to watch and try to be as civil as the other posters to this open blog... I am heartened to know that others beside myself are concerned about what has transpired between the CSD5 and the PZLDF... Have a truly nice day...

Churadogs said...

I would like to add a note here. WE are not responsible for what OTHERS say. We are only responsible for what WE say and for how WE CHOOSE to react to what others say. Claiming that some idiotic comment from an imature jerky-boy MAKES/FORCES us to turn into a mirror-image identical imature jerky-boy is false. Doing that is a CHOICE on your part. A choice you alone are responsible for, nobody else.

hugh jass said...

Whew! Now that we've got all that out of the way, maybe Ann can finally answer my burning question regarding the Gail/Shaunna fiasco:
"Why do YOU insist on making excuses for Gail & Shaunnas dismal performance regarding the CDO matter"? You cannot defend the indefensible...Gail has failed miserably at everything she's attempted! Look at her track record & name just ONE thing that has had a POSITIVE result for Los Osos. As the Razor stated & your pal Ron agreed with, Shaunna does indeed have a conflict of interest with her representation of the CDO recipients. Another thing I never understood was the amount of rage exhibited by Lynette, Alon & "Mike" toward the Razor & the Rock. They have obviously hit a nerve with these folks in "exposing some very painful truths".

Mr. Ed said...

Sewertoons,

Any youtube references to you have been removed. The slate is clean.

Good luck, Mike. If you fall off the wagon you can always send me a threat to rockofthecoast@yahoo.com.

Otherwise, be good out there. It's a jungle.

Sewertoons said...

Thank you Mr. Ed, I truly do appreciate the removal of those cartoons.

The Razor said...

All negative articles mentioning you and your likeness have been removed from Razor Online.

Sewertoons said...

Thank you Razor!

GetRealOsos said...

Ann,

I've been away for a couple of days and must admit that I'm stunned at a few things:

First, you never answered anything I've asked of you -- i.e. who exactly brought up "regional" if not Gail/Shaunna at the CDO hearing?

Second, all the questions like why call the group Prohibition Zone Legal Defense Fund if you're (really) trying to dispute the PZ? Doesn't make sense! Or, did Shaunna disclose to the CDO people about her working with the Regional Water Board etc. etc.

You ask questions from me yet won't answer mine. You want myself and others to answer your questions, but yet you don't/won't answer! What gives?

Now you say to a new blogger (a real nice welcome to your site):

"...Naw, they're just being imature jerks, as usual. Just like you..."

That's pretty rude of you -- and you say others ankle bite. Wow!

Everyone seems to be getting along and being nice to each other now -- EXCEPT FOR YOU!

This is all pretty darn weird.

PS How much has Shaunna been paid for the CDO case? Is PZLDF a non-profit or what?

GetRealOsos said...

Ann,

Also, I can't believe the name calling regarding Aaron. I read his piece on Robin Hayhurst and her relationship with developers.

These people you defend so, the Blakeslee group (Gail, Robin and Sam) that work for the developers -- Aaron exposes this more and more and you call him names (over and over) and you, yourself, have always talked about ankle chewing!!

I didn't see where Aaron called you names.

PS I'd like you to answer the question: What HAS Gail done good for this town? She promoted AB2701, the 218 vote, and as leader of the opposition said gravity was fine with her (even having Rachael Rosenthal train for the gravity plant for years.)

Would you like me to link to the letter Paavo wrote to her immediately after the County took the project where he told her NO STEP and yet Gail told us to trust the County and the best project would rise to the top?

I can't believe you Ann. Really.

hugh jass said...

Ann, Must I re-type my questions concerning Gails many failures & Shaunnas "conflict of interest" problem or are you ready to give us all the answers to my burning questions? I'll be patient for awhile, then I'll re-type all my questions again. There's no point in running & hiding from the truth. Most of us KNOW what Gail is, and what she's NOT.

Sewertoons said...

GRO, would you kindly upload that Paavo letter someplace or post a link to it and let us all see it?

hugh jass said...

Does anyone else want Ann to answer the "tough Gail/Shaunna questions" that I posted earlier? Maybe if GRO uploads Paavo's letter for Lynette, maybe Ann will answer my questions. Or is Gail calling the shots? Just a thought since Gail has called SO MANY SHOTS regarding Los Osos & the PZ, even though she has no "ties" to the PZ. Oh, I forgot, she helped purchase a home for her son(?) in the PZ, but that was just a "ploy", so he can get a job when the County brings on the BIG GRAVITY system, that Gail helped the County promote.