So, if Tri-W Is Being Given A "Pass" During The Fine Screening Process, And The County Is Claiming It's Still In The Fine Screening Process (Having Been Given A Pass Through The Rough Screening Process) Because It Wants To Follow The CEQA Law And Avoid Lawsuits Down The Line, Blah-Blah-Blah, And There Are Ongoing Claims That The Original Permit Issued For Tri-W Was Obtained In Part By Using A Statement Of Over Riding Considerations That May Have Been, Uh, Less Than, Er, Accurate or Oh, Let's Say, Lacking In Evidence For At Least One Claim, Maybe Two, And A Coastal Commissioner Used The Term, Bait & Switchy, And There's Claims From CC Staff That If There's A Do-Over, The CC Staff Wouldn't Reccommend A Re-Issue Of That Permit Knowing Now What Is Now Known, And The New CSD Revoked The Original SOC, & Etc, Shouldn't The County STOP RIGHT NOW For A Thorough Evaluation As To Whether Or Not The Permit (The One That's Keeping Tri-W On The Table) Actually WAS Legit, Before Going Further And Perhaps Engendering A Much Feared Lawsuit . . . Later Down The Line? In Short, Shouldn't That Original Permit Be Vetted By The County And The TAC And The CC Staff, Perhaps The CC Itself, And If It's Found To Be, Uh, Questionable, Then The Permit Portion Of The Tri-W Project Will Be Removed So That Tri-W Will Then Be On A Level Playing Field (or Pushed Off The Table With A Rough Screening Fatal Flaw?) Along With The Rest Of The Projects Under Consideration?
Just a suggestion.
Pages
Calhouns Can(n)ons
About the Can(n)ons
Calhoun's Can(n)ons was originally published in 1990 in the (now defunct) Morro Bay, CA, Sun Bulletin, and since 1992 has continued in the various resurrections of the Los Osos, CA. Bay News, Bay Breeze, Bay News, Bay News-Tolosa Press. A few years ago, the Can(n)on was added to the Central Coast NewsMission blogsite. Ann Calhoun lives in Los Osos. You can email her at Churadogs at gmail dot com
To be persuasive, we must be believable. To be believable, we must be credible. To be credible, we must be truthful.
Edward R. Murrow
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; the essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The Little Prince
No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the misfortune is to do it solemnly.
Montaigne
Edward R. Murrow
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; the essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The Little Prince
No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the misfortune is to do it solemnly.
Montaigne
Followers
Posts
Calhouns Can(n)ons
Search Calhoun's Can(n)ons
Adopt a Dog or Cat Today
Local Bloggers and Friends
Blog Archive
-
▼
2007
(186)
-
▼
June
(15)
- And Now For Something Completely DifferentAlas, so...
- New Posting ProceeduresApparently there's one or m...
- Fundraiser, Pure, Absolute Delight, & PZLDF Presen...
- Calhoun’s Can(n)ons, The Bay News, Morro Bay CAFor...
- An Interesting Wrinkle or TwoWent to the June 20, ...
- A ReminderIt appears from this press release, that...
- Thanks, PaavoPaavo Ogren, the county’s deputy publ...
- Hellooooo, HeeelllloooOOOOO, Los Osos! TAC & Town ...
- So, if Tri-W Is Being Given A "Pass" During The Fi...
- Sewer or DieIn the CDO and CAO documents sent to T...
- Calhoun’s Cannons, The Bay News, Morro Bay CA for ...
- Put Your Hands On The Table And Step Away From the...
- Los Osos Wastewater Draft Report AvailableThe publ...
- TAC Meeting ChangedPress release from the County: ...
- TAC & PZLDF Schedules for JuneAnd check the county...
-
▼
June
(15)
Central Coast News Radio
Central Coast NewsLinks
CCNM Disclaimer: Calhoun's Can(n)on content copyright wholly owned by Ann Calhoun. Central Coast NewsMission site name and branding images, content and customization copyright © 2005 - 2009. Images courtesy page author, Ann Calhoun, and CCNM editor, Greg McClure; sponsors; and public domain. All writers are responsible for their articles. Permission granted to quote articles herein on a fair use basis, please credit the writer.
154 comments:
AND IF THIS WAS DONE WHAT NEXT WOULD YOU BITCH, MOAN, CRY AND COMPLAIN ABOUT????????
Bravo to the county for keeping all options on the table!! The more the merrier. Tri-W hysterics be damned!!!!!
Just another suggestion.
I'm unclear as to why the perception that TriW is just being given a pass through.
The TAC is reviewing and running TriW though the PRO/CON analysis as laid out in the following sections that are included in any WWTF:
1.Effluent Disposal/Water Resources
2.Treatment Technologies
3.Bio-Solids Treatments & Disposal
4.Treatment Plant Site
5.Collection System
In each of the 5 sections, each TAC group has identified criteria for the evaluation. Then we have lively discussions around those criteria and how we came to a PRO/CON conclusion.
This is my understanding of what I am doing and cannot speak for the TAC as a whole. It is also my understanding that sometimes those PROS/CONS will move around as the discussion continues. People have a lot to say and it's interesting and can be very insightful.
I look forward to further participation.
Sincerely,
Maria M. Kelly
Twice in the past week, I have heard the County staff reinforce that the Tri-W project will be analyzed on a pros-cons basis along with all of the other viable project options and, assuming that the Prop 218 vote passes and this process continues on to the CEQA review of all project options, that review will include a fresh look at the Tri-W.
When the results of that effort are made public, we will then have our project survey. So, what's the problem?
Ann, that's one of the best headlines I've ever read.
"Shouldn't The County STOP RIGHT NOW For A Thorough Evaluation As To Whether Or Not The Permit (The One That's Keeping Tri-W On The Table) Actually WAS Legit..."
They absolutely should, and it's not legit.
"Then The Permit Portion Of The Tri-W Project Will Be Removed So That Tri-W Will Then Be On A Level Playing Field..."
You know what bugs me in the draft FSR? They say Tri-W is getting "carried through" the fine screening process because it was shown to be "permitable," -- sure it took "bait and switchy" and a bunch of other regulatory sleight of hand to get it permitted -- but the county doesn't seem to care about all of that, they just keep saying say that it was shown to be "permitable."
Yet, in that exact same document, the have now lumped into the Tri-W project a 600-acre ranch so that the project will actually work, and THAT project -- Tri-W with a 600-acre ranch so it will actually work -- was NEVER shown to be permitable. So why is THAT project, a project that was NEVER shown to be permitable, still being "carried through" the fine screening process?
It's almost like the county wants the 218 vote to fail, because nothing will increase the chance of that happening more than keeping Tri-W on the table, as the last three elections show, and they seem to be doing anything they can to keep it on the table.
"Because (the County) Wants To Follow The CEQA Law..."
Unlike the 2001 LOCSD, because if they had followed CEQA law to begin with, Tri-W COULD NOT have been selected. According to CEQA documents, state law (and the county's own Coastal Zone Land Use Ordinance, for that matter) wisely requires that the most environmentally preferable location be selected for a public facilities project, and the Final EIR identified sites out of town as "environmentally preferable."
Yep, not only is the Tri-W project's Coastal Development Permit worthless (as we'd all find out quickly if that project WASN'T being "carried through" the fine screening process), it's selection was illegal to begin with. Nice.
The way I read it, CEQA demands that Tri-W come off the table.
Anon:
"So, what's the problem? "
The problem is that it's getting "carried through" all of the screenings, and that ultimately slows down the process, thus costing a lot of money. If the Tri-W development permit was scrutinized from the outset, that project would have fallen off the table during the ROUGH screening process -- because it will never work -- and everything would be moving along faster today... saving a lot of county taxpayer money.
Maria wrote:
"The TAC is reviewing and running TriW though the PRO/CON analysis as laid out in the following sections that are included in any WWTF:
1.Effluent Disposal/Water Resources
2.Treatment Technologies
3.Bio-Solids Treatments & Disposal
4.Treatment Plant Site
5.Collection System"
Maria, please, I begging you -- right now I'm on my knees, typing this, begging you -- to get the TAC to add this to Tri-W's Pro/Con analysis:
6. Review of the circumstances that led to the Tri-W CDP
And then that review needs to include the "strongly held community value," the "Statement of Overriding Considerations" (that overrode the entire environmental review process), and, of course, the reasons why Commissioner Potter called the LOCSD "bait and switchy" in 2004.
If the TAC does an honest appraisal of those three things, Tri-W will be history, like it should have been during the ROUGH screening process.
I can't wait to see what a "PRO" is for TRI-W.
Ann & Ron:
And if the County does as Ann suggests, and the CCC and County find that the permit WAS legit, what will you say then?
And, if the County says Tri-W IS the best option, and the property owners approve it, what will you say then?
JUST ASKING...
To: Maria,
With all do respect, the peer review team said Tri-W was not the best location. These are the experts and the people on TAC are not. Rob Miller liked the site out of town from the beginning.
Tri-W SHOULD BE OFF THE TABLE AND THAT'S THAT.
"as the last three elections show, and they seem to be doing anything they can to keep it on the table."
Santa Margerita Ron, how many times do we have to point out to you that the last elections, particularly the recall, were based on fear and lies. And how many times do we have to point out to you that in the 218 vote, renters are not given a vote. Your claims that the last 3 elections "prove" anything are as baseless as most of your other arguments against Tri-W. Give it up and let the homeowners of Los Osos do their thing.
Tri-W SHOULD BE OFF THE TABLE AND THAT'S THAT.
...or we're gonna keep yelling and screaming and stomping our feet and throwing a fit because we're ascared of that mean 'ol Tri-W because it's mean and nasty and it gives us nightmares and waaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
Above, "Ron" said that the Tri-W project, by getting "carried through" all of the screenings, "slows down the process, thus costing a lot of money." "Everything would be moving along faster today-saving a lot of County taxpayer money."
Based on conversations that I have had with the County staff, I don't see this. In fact, I see the opposite. Time is money, big time, on construction cost inflation.
By not having their consultants spend time reviewing the Tri-W option and focusing on all others so that we have current cost estimated alternatives to the Tri-W, they were able to produce a rough screening report and a draft fine screening report in just five months from the date that the County assumed responsibility for the project. Also, they did the work that was necessary to get us a line on some needed grant funding and more favorable terms for a State loan (30 years vs. 20).This funding effort could not be deferred.
It addition to the time that has been spent to date by the consultants and the staff (many weekends and evenings, and lots of travel), to add to the scope of work an extensive analysis of the Tri-W project in this phase of the project would have taken even more staff effort and consultant work. If,in fact, they could have provided those resources, the cost of doing so would have increased the County's $2 Million appropriation significantly.
This process gets us to a Prop 218 vote as quickly as possible, and provides sufficient information for us to decide if we think that the outcome will be reasonable and we are willing to guarantee the assessments to make sure that the process is completed.
Would you please be more specific in your contention that this approach is slowing down the process, and costing a lot of County tax payer money?
If the Prop 218 vote passes, County-wide taxpayer money (the $2 Million plus the significant additional that will be required) will be recouped through the project. If it fails, the taxpayer investment will be capped at the $2 Million. At least that is my take, unless you provide more specific information to show me otherwise.
Ron,
The TAC isn't reviewing permits. Let's look at it this way for a moment.
A.There are people in this community who fundamentally, without a doubt want TriW out.
B.There are people in this community who fundamentally, without a doubt want work to restart at TriW
C.There are people in this community who fundamentally, without a doubt are less concerned with location and more concerned with having this situation resolved.
D.There are people in this community who fundamentally, without a doubt have no idea what's happening around them.
What is the most judicious and fair way to proceed? Each component needs to be identified and addressed. We all live here yet some are saying: "we have more truth than you and therefor don't have to listen anymore"
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Everyone needs to slow down,listen and speak and listen and speak and so on.
I hear what you are saying and just because I don't agree with your line of reasoning doesn't make you or me more right or more wrong.
I quote: We agree and acknowledge that this process demands time and patience and the engagement of the community.
There are others who also have a strong commitment to the history of Los Osos and are discouraged that we are approaching this for the 3rd time.
I'm on my knees(not really) begging you to make as strong a commitment to our future and potential history. This is a huge task and commitment and that is where I feel the community focus needs to shift.
In regards to expertise, the TAC is comprised of members of our community. We all can help keep each others objectivity in check. See you all on June 19th @ the Los Osos Middle School!?!
Everyone can come as anons!
Sincerely,
Maria M. Kelly
p.s. I can respond if the conversation is civil and remotely productive but if it goes off, I'm off and sometimes don't make it back for awhile. Email if you want.
mariakelly@charter.net
Maria,
Ummm .... isn't there a really high chance that one is in group D if one is in group A?
Maria,
What does the Tri W "project" do for SEAWATER INTRUSION? I have to agree with Ron, ask the tough questions about how & why Tri W got where it is today. It was Pandora's dog & pony show, complete with all the smoke & mirrors.
Glen
Ron,
All jokes to Maria aside ...
The County has indicated that if they'll go with TriW it would be without any park stuff. The CDP requires park stuff. An amendment to the permit or an entirely new permit would be required.
If a new permit, you and Ann have your way and the project (from a permitting viewpoint) is on a level playing field with the other options.
If a change in the CDP is requested and the LOCSD had revoked the earlier SOC presumably the County would need to present an analysis of all possible sites that says that TriW is best overall or if there are some criteria where TriW is presumably not as good as other sites, another SOC would need to be written. If that SOC says "TriW would be done two years sooner and after adjusting for inflation, some $30M cheaper" the CCC will quickly approve TriW.
If the County includes a park in TriW just to avoid the hassle of a new CDP you will have a good point. Of course one that I would argue with you about and you would be wrong, as always, but your point should be considered. However, because the County says they'll not have a park and because the CCC says that the TriW CDP requires a park you needn't worry your little head over this issue. Mommy and Daddy can work it out while you rest your tired head.
Hi All,
I encourage those fine folks that question the legitimacy of the Tri-W CDP as based upon the SOC (as approved by the County and the CCC) feel free to file a lawsuit over this issue. Go right ahead. Please. Pretty Please!
You will soon find that there is no legal theory that supports the reversal of the CDP based upon this issue. The lawsuit will lose.
So please be proactive and press your issue in the courts. The sooner the better.
Regards, Richard LeGros
I always git-to-thinkin' after I post something, and I gots-to-thinkin'...
Above, I wrote:
"6. Review of the circumstances that led to the Tri-W CDP"
Now that I think about it, the review wouldn't even have to be that comprehensive. All it would have to do is focus on one thing:
6. A review of Special Condition of Approval #17 in the Tri-W Coastal Development permit.
Everything would fall apart from there.
Special Condition of Approval #17 is the part of the CDP where the Commission essentially says, "Tri-W can't be built without a multi-million dollar park included, because you, 2001 LOCSD, told us that was the only reason you chose Tri-W in the first place. Remember? '... other sites were rejected on the basis that they did not meet the project objective of centrally located community amenities?' Remember all that, 2001 LOCSD?"
That is an exact translation of what the Commission is telling the LOCSD with Special Condition of Approval #17
Make no mistake about it. The only reason Special Condition of Approval #17 exists in the first place is because of "bait and switchy," and the folks that dish out the SRF loan never were able to wrap their minds around that, and decided to fund the amenities anyway, despite the fact that the policy that dictates the SRF loan so brilliantly says, "Ineligible (for funding): decorative items."
So, Maria, that's what I'm begging for:
6. A review of Special Condition of Approval #17 in the Tri-W Coastal Development permit.
Fair enough, don't you think?
So the TAC, in it's pros and cons analysis, highlights that condition as an issue of concern to be addressed thoroughly when/if the Prop 218 vote passes and the process moves forward to CEQA review. To do otherwise would invite everyone who had a personal dislike for any given potential site, for example, to expect additional prior detailed work.
Hold your horses. I think there is a high likelyhood of you seeing this end up where you want it to. Let the process play out. Screwing with the process is the sort of thing that has gotten this community into big trouble more than once.
Ron,
It seems that you have a reading comprehension problem. Everyone else here is saying that for TriW to be chosen it must be the best current option. You seem to be stuck on revisiting a 2001 decision of the CCC.
If the County has different reasons today for choosing TriW than the reasons you opposed in 2001 ... please explain why the County should give a fig about SOC of 2001.
Don't we all want the best possible project today? Ann says she does. In the past Ron has said that he doesn't care a bit about where the plant goes. I've argued for the cheapest long-run option. Lisa cares about ... hmmm ... what does Lisa care about?
Whatever the case, if the County has reasons today for choosing TriW, they'll have to justify that choice to the CCC if they don't include a park. The County says they're not going to include a park.
You should be happy.
That is ... unless your whole goal is to get us to revisit 2001 and in blaming Pandora and the Solutions Group instead of the goal that the rest of us have ... getting the best solution for our town.
Ron:
"So, Maria, that's what I'm begging for:
6. A review of Special Condition of Approval #17 in the Tri-W Coastal Development permit."
Fair enough. So IF you get your wish, and the CCC decides they no longer care about that condition, and they say the CDP is valid anyway, what will you say then?
And, as asked above, IF the County chooses Tri-W and IF the property owners approve it, what will you say then? And forget the "well that's not going to happen/can't happen, so there's not point in commenting on it" defense.
I'm asking a straight up and down question - what will you say IF Tri-W passes all the landmines you say exist, and the CDP is upheld and the PROPERTY OWNERS approve it?
It becomes more clear each passing day that the County should eliminate any further "Public" input.
If this blog is any indication of the public's expertise, then no sewer would ever be built in Los Osos.
Right now, no one knows what and where the WWTF will be! The County has heard all the emotional arguments from all 12 sides, on every subject from technology to finance to legal to political. They have put up with insults and threats. It's time for the County to turn a deaf ear and just complete the process which will allow the property owners to vote to assess themselves for a reasonable maximum amount and then to provide an advisory on which of 3 projects to proceed with. This community citizenry is not capable of designing and managing a project of this magnitude. The process has gone on far too long and must be brought to a conclusion!
So quit wringing your hands and dripping tears on the keyboard.
"Hold your horses. I think there is a high likelyhood of you seeing this end up where you want it to. Let the process play out. Screwing with the process is the sort of thing that has gotten this community into big trouble more than once."
This is incredibly sage advice, and no doubt true, but unfortunately for Ron, Lisa Schicker/Julie Tacker et. al. and all their apologists, this has very little if anything to do with the process and everything to do with "getting even;" "proving a point;" and "revenge." These people would lay waste to Los Osos to settle a score with Pandora, the prior board, and all those who hold them responsible for the mess this comunnity is in.
Ron,
Ok Ron, as I blogged before, file your lawsuit on this issue.
Please! With sugar on top!
No need for you to waste your time blogging your evidence on this issue. SUE. As you are so confident that you will win, go for it! I'll cheer you on. I encourage your lawsuit!
Regards, Richard LeGros
and to add to the list:
E) There are those that do not want a sewer, as they fear the cost of the sewer.
Ron,
Didn't the Coastal Commission ALREADY review the permit for validity?
I believe Directors Tacker and Schicker lead the charge to revoke the permit. And if memeory serves a lawsuit against the Coastal Commission followed.
I think your issue has already had it's day in court.
Thank You Richard, as we all know, Ron Crawford is merely a rabblerouser, just stirring the pot, but never taking responsibility for his own shortcomings. He would rather cheerlead than take the legal action you suggest. He has no dog in this fight and knows any suit he might file on his own would be thrown out. How do we spell Crawford Courage? Cowa.. There is always that chance the CSD might fund their legal staff to engage the Coastal Commission in yet another crusade.
Have a nice day out there in sewerland!
We will either vote for the asessment or not. If we vote for the asessment, the BOS will decide.
This all hinges upon the assessment. There will be plenty of time to argue about this later.
It just crossed my mind that some real lessons didn't get learned by some folks.
Anyone remember the LAFCO thang?
A case where a group of politicians made a decision clearly based on what would benefit their own constituency rather than what some folks here thought was really important.
Here we have another group of politicians (SLOBOS)
getting final say about Los Osos, And don't forget Gibson represents MORE than just Los Osos.
It is clearly possible that the project chosen will get chosen for political rather than actuarial reasons.
IMHO the survey will hold great weight, And the TAC report will be likened to a holy book.
If it isn't in the TAC report that TriW is CLEARLY WAY WAY cheaper AND has the support of the citizens Its toast .
4.5 of the SLOBOS will pick whatever is best for them. (everyone outside of Los Osos wishes we would just go away, its politically tough to be "not popular")
A while back I contacted the county concerning the advisory survey. I let them know I had great reservations abouk the survey if it was for the communtiy at large instead of just the homeowners in the PZ. Or at the very least I wanted a weighted system whereby the selections of the PZ homeowners (the ones actually paying) held the most weight. I heard back from Paavo on May 2 that my question would be answered in the next flyer sent out to the community. (When will that flyer be here?) This is a HUGE issue for me concerning my 218 vote (After seeing the effects of the recall, the closness of the vote tally, and the influence of not only renters but out-of-towners on my property value, it's not going to happen again). I hope to hear from the county soon concerning this issue.
"concerning this issue"
Good point!
If ALL the property owners would just bother to vote that block alone would win any election in Los Osos.
(providing, of course, that they formed a united block.)
I think more good can be done talking to your neighbors than shaking the county tree.
Mike Green: You could always run for Supervisor and straighten all this sewer stuff out?
Why thank you! Nope, need more than one supervisor!
It's going to take a King!
If I were King of the Sewer, Not queen, not duke, not prince.
My regal robes of the Sewer, would be satin, two ply, not chintz.
I'd command each bowel, be it fish or fowl.
With a woof and a woof and a royal growl - woof.
As I'd click my heel, all the trees would kneel.
And the water gods bow and Al Barrow kowtow.
And the CSD would take wing - If I - If I - were King!
Each anony would show respect to me. The Sharkeys genuflect to me.
Though my tail would lash, I would show compash
For every underling!
If I - If I - were King!
Just King!
Monarch of all I survey -- Mo--na-a-a--a-arch Of all I survey!
Gee do ya think we can get a vote on it?
Mike Green I'm afraid if you became sewer king
Richard Margetson would ask for itemized receipts of all of your bling.
(Ron Crawford too would tell you he was the true king of sewer rhymes.
By showing you yellowed copies of old articles he wrote in the New Times.)
Ya, but once I got rid of that ol wizard I'd be King!
Pay no attention to that man behind the Cuesta Grade Curtain!
He only hands out stuff like brains and valor and heart!
Sorry Ron, I didn't mean to draw you into another LO quagmire!
I'd vote to make you Monarch, as long as you have Shark as your Chief Council!
I wonder who will be on the BOS when the final decision on the sewer is made? Our future is in their hands since our project choice is not binding.
They could actually choose a project that no one wants.
Done and Done! You may be a little disappointed In my other choices though.
Maria Kelly.. Chief of ethics
Ann Calhoun.. The royal EYE
Richard Le Gross.. Exchequer of the treasury
Ron Crawford.. Royal historian
Jon Arcuni.. Royal angler extrordinair
Joe Sparks..Royal major of the populace militia
Dear Maria Kelly,
It boggles that you say, "I'm unclear as to why the perception that TriW is just being given a pass through."
It demonstrates that you didn't read Ann's front piece before you commented on this blog or you read it and completely ignored it. This is clearly intentional and illustrates the problem that many in the community are having with you and the TAC. Your bias is transparent. The facts are quite clear even if you choose not to see them.
So, to me, it is easy to see why Tri-W is getting a free pass right through to the 218 vote.
Oh, I forgot,
R Briggs.. Special royal envoy to Burkina Faso.
It's clear Ann doesn't want pros/cons, screening, or any semblance of objective evaluation or letting the property owners decide on every viable option. She only wants an investigation that will uncover the 'true' story notwithstanding that every fact on the face of or below Earth about Los Osos is already known to the public but she will never be satisfied unless about 13 Judges also get to review every known fact and themselves become totally confused as the average yoke in Los Osos and only if they then render some proclaimation and that if it doesn't provide her with the confirmation of her uneducated and untrained musings and hints of allegations would only send her into a tizzy with arcane rumblings about said Judges and spiral back into ranting about a project that will be decided by property owners with something more at stake than running out of column material for the next decade.
Notice that she seems to have run out of material and has resorted to further tabloid charlatary with hideous point fonts! Has Rita Skeeter run out of material to blame the the RWQCB and the past CSD BOD for some mystic perception twix her ears? We can only hope so!
to 10:08AM,
You're right about only property owners being able to vote on the 218, but ALL residents voted that they didn't want TRI-W on Measure B. Just because people rent they still have a say if they want a sewer in the middle of town or not. They live here too, support local business, etc.
TRI-W should be "off the table" because it's a very bad idea. The peer review said so, the voters said so, the visitors say so. It's the wrong project with the wrong location.
Come again? Did you say ALL residents voted that they didn't want Tri-W? Try again my friend. Measure B passed by 19 votes. One third of the community didn't even bother to vote. Where the hell do you get your facts from?
And I don't care if renters support local businesses or what they do. They shouldn't have a say on how I spend my money. I pay, it's my selection that counts. If someone is going to dig up my property to install a new septic tank, power this tank from a panel in my house, have accesss to my property anytime they wish, no renter should have a say in my property being used this way. Only I should (And I won't, by the way.)
To the Anon at 12,
I can't believe how stupid you sound when you say, " becomes more clear each passing day that the County should eliminate any further "Public" input."
The people in Los Osos will not only have to pay for this project, this very large project at $200 million or so, but will have to live with it too. Any accidents (like last time) we'll have to live with and pay for.
The county didn't do a project for how many years? They allowed 25% more homes to be built, and you blame who again? You want us to trust who again? Who got us into this mess for not putting in a sewer before all these homes were built?...and allowed the building knowing it was illegal...WHY DON'T YOU TRY STICKING TO THE FACTS?
Go take some smart pills please.
&:54 PM says - They could actually choose a project that no one wants.
You are right, and it will hit you so fast you won't know it. That's what works here.
Correction to above: it's to anon 7:54PM
and Knoll King is the sewer king. Big sewerking.
TO: 8:38 PM, June 13, 2007
I think Ann, Ron, and others are looking for some honesty. Is that asking too much? What bothers you so about questions and straight answers?
The sewer process all along from 1983 has been based on lies - and lies right up to this day.
I disagree. Ann and Ron are NOT looking for honesty! They are looking for sensational gossip! They only seek to cause their extremist, obstructionist peers to create any diversion possible to further delay any sewer!
The lies have grow out of the nitpicking by the obstructionists who lied to and continue to lie to the community.
The hard truth is that the County is going to build a sewer in Los Osos inspite of what Ann and Ron and all those in denial that the main body of this community is sick and tired of the bickering brought on by the MTS activists!
To our anonymous friend of 11:15pm ...
Yes, Ann and Ron are asking for some honesty and some straight answers. In general doing such would be quite reasonable. However, in this case I have two problems with what they've been doing.
First, they've already been given answers to some of their questions again and again ... it is just that they don't like the answers so they keep repeating the questions as if they've not been answered. For example, Ann keeps asking why the previous board starting "pounding money into the ground" ... but Richard here and others elsewhere also have answered this question many times. It is almost as if Ann and Ron are intentionally using "the big lie" approach to convince us that everything about the previous boards were rotton to the core. (Except for, interestingly enough, they've never picked on Sylvia ... perhaps they have fond memories of buying auto parts from her shop as do I.)
The other problem I have with Ann and Ron .... and this is the big one .... is that they only are very selectively asking for honesty and truth. For example, I've never once seen either of them asking for any justification of the promises of Chuck and Steve when they said that they'll get us a sewer for less than $100/month or when they promised to get us one for about $150/month during the most recent election.
Nope, Ron only wants to ask about ancient history and Ann only wants to ask rhetorical questions. Neither actually really wants a full set of facts ... this is clearly evidenced by their refusal to ask tough questions of folks "on their side". I find this intellectually dishonest at best.
Wow,
One wonders why Ann is shouting so? This is very telling!
Anonymous sez:"And if the County does as Ann suggests, and the CCC and County find that the permit WAS legit, what will you say then?
And, if the County says Tri-W IS the best option, and the property owners approve it, what will you say then?
JUST ASKING..."
Then it stays on the table with the other "legitimate" alternatives and gets evaluated on its pros and cons just like all the other systems being looked at (What Maria says the TAC is doing now) and if it's still standing on its own merits (like maybe the TAC can add the qustion Ron suggests as to the legitimacy of that permit) and the homeowners pass the 218 vote, and all the due dilligence is dilliganced and the voters pick TRI during the preference survey of whatever last three or two projects are left standing, and the BOS says, well, since they prefered that system and site, that's the one we'll go with too, then Los Osos will end up with a sewer plant in the middle of town -- having fairly and thoroughly completed The Process with no phony weighting or thumbs on the scale. Then we can all go home and argue about something else, which is what I've been advocating for years. Thanks for asking.
someone calling himself richard Le Gros sez:"I encourage those fine folks that question the legitimacy of the Tri-W CDP as based upon the SOC (as approved by the County and the CCC) feel free to file a lawsuit over this issue. Go right ahead. Please. Pretty Please!"
I said it once, I'll say it again. A person doesn't have to WIN a lawsuit, they only have to file a lawsuit to result in a monkey wrench being tossed into the wheels. If you remove even the possibility of a lawsuit being filed in the first place, you will hopefully AVOID more delays. If you think people want to pound nails into your head, you don't give them a hammer and a sack full of nails. It's that simple.
Anonymous sez:"I disagree. Ann and Ron are NOT looking for honesty! They are looking for sensational gossip! They only seek to cause their extremist, obstructionist peers to create any diversion possible to further delay any sewer!
The lies have grow out of the nitpicking by the obstructionists who lied to and continue to lie to the community."
I can't speak for Ron, but, yep, a little honesty would be nice, doncha think? Including honesty from you as to how misleading and dishonest your word choices are:i.e. 'They are looking for sensational gossip! They only seek to cause their extremist, obstructionist peers to create any diversion possible to further delay any sewer!" Oh, pluuueeeze. Nobody with half a wit believes that nonsense.
"Further delay any sewer?" Oh, you mean like all those columns I wrote for years headed, "O Lucy, Joooo Gotta Lotta 'Splainin' to Doooo" At any point, the questions I raised COULD have been answered -- honestly -- the Process COULD have been put back on track years ago, the 218 vote COULD have been held years ago, so much COULD have been solved years ago with a little honesty. All of which COULD have prevented this train wreck, near as I can see. And engaging that Process was what I was calling for years ago in the form of a modest proposal for a Chinese Menu system: Two or three projects with full (honest) prices, homeowners vote, voi la! end of problem. Just like what the County is doing now. AFTER the train wreck.
Maria sez:"Ron,
The TAC isn't reviewing permits. Let's look at it this way for a moment.
A.There are people in this community who fundamentally, without a doubt want TriW out.
B.There are people in this community who fundamentally, without a doubt want work to restart at TriW
C.There are people in this community who fundamentally, without a doubt are less concerned with location and more concerned with having this situation resolved.
D.There are people in this community who fundamentally, without a doubt have no idea what's happening around them."
That about sums it up. What will (again) remain of interest is what percentage of the homeowners will bother to return their ballots this time. The number to beat is The Missing 40%.
When a group of property owners in a given area can not mutually, and informally, agree on how to pool their resources for something needed for the common good, formal governments are established to make decisions for that common good.
While it is the responsibility of the Government to make those decisions, they consider the opinions of the people that they represent to varying degrees.
In our case, the County will formally ask the property owners if they are willing to guarantee the repayment of assessments in an amount sufficient to fund a workable project. Later, if that vote passes and the County still has responsibility for a project, they have said that they will use a professional survey firm to gather information about citizen preferences regarding the project, so that the staff will have that information when they make a recommendation the their Board, and the Board will have it when they make a final project choice.
I am OK with this process. In fact, the longer I follow this contentions issue, the more I realize that I like it very much. It is the best and, really, the only way to get this done. I am put off by the 10-12 people that I see on TV every Tuesday evening who violate this process by constantly lobbying the Board of Supervisors for their personal interest before the entire comunity has a chance to review the final data and make a community decision. Additionally, they constantly try to get the Board to change the process that the County people, the TAC, and the rest of us are working so hard to get through so that we can make the best choices when we are asked.
I believe that the best thing for our community is for those that are so up-tight about all of this to lighten up a bit and let the next six five months play out.
On a related note, isn't it time that the CSD Board acknowledges that this County process is all that is standing between all of us and CDO's, formally endorses the process, and encourages people to responsibly participate? The CSD has neither the technical expertise, the funding or the credit rating to acheive an acceptable project and, because of the bankruptcy, it will be decades before they do, if ever. They should embrace this for the community opportunity that it is.
I understand that CEQA requires the County to consider all viable alternatives. Sara Wan of the Costal Commission stated that the permit on Tri-W is no longer valid and will have to go thru the process from scratch. I believe Noel King made a similar statement at Tuesdays BOS meeting. Steve Monowitz of the Costal Commission was quoted as saying "If we knew then what we know now, we would have never permitted Tri-W.
Conclusion.....if the permit on the Tri-W project is no longer valid and the Costal Commission has stated that there is no way they will approve a new permit for the Tri-W project then, why is it being considered?
Ann writz: "... a modest proposal for a Chinese Menu system: Two or three projects with full (honest) prices, homeowners vote, voi la! end of problem."
Hmmm...
Do you mean that this is a modest proposal or this is A Modest Proposal?
Essentially this is either what did, in fact, happen back in 2001 but Julie and Lisa and you weren't choosing to participate in the discussion and so your voice wasn't heard when you didn't make public comment at the LOCSD meetings at the time. The only thing lacking was a formal vote, but if people are allowed to say that recent votes on issues such as LOCSD board and Measure B were votes against TriW, then it is only fair to say that the votes in 2000, 2001 and 2002 were votes for TriW. Ann, you should be satisfied because the process was followed.
Or ... if you weren't satisfied with the vetting of other options back in 2000 and 2001 because they were not priced out accurately enough, you're asking essentially to go through the entire design/permitting/lawsuit process with three separate locations/technology combinations, essentially tripling our design costs (think an additional $30M or so). It is worth remembering that many of the various additional costs on TriW were added later because of design/permitting/lawsuit issues that were unknown at the time the TriW location and conceptual design were approved. The same sort of additional costs would occur for all the other locations as well.
The County process is pretty much the same as that of the LOCSD except now the costs are all higher and because of past issues and complaints, a 218 vote is needed up front and the County will conduct a poll or a vote or something. I should think that the TAC and public comment would be good enough, but the County wants to make sure that there isn't another native uprising because of a lack of understanding of the issues. The County wants to do their best to be able to later say "we gave you the three most realistic options that met various requirements and thats what you chose". This still won't satisfy conspiracy theorists and a few others of note, but it will satisfy some of those who ... because of the big lie ... were told that TriW was chosen based on tainted logic.
To our most recent anonymous poster .... if what you say is correct, the reason TriW is being considered is that CEQA requires all viable alternatives to be considered ... you answered you own question.
"but the County wants to make sure that there isn't another native uprising because of a lack of understanding of the issues."
I'm convinced once again there WILL be a native uprising, but it won't be because of a lack of understanding. It will simply be becasue that is what happens in Los Osos by the obstrucionists who have to have it their way, or no way. It should be interesting to watch, but anyone willing to give me odds that the sign-carrying; corner-meeting; flag-waving mob of mostly renters is again in our near future?
Anon at 8:22,
What you say sounds good but the process is not fair. We should have one project to vote on, we should know how much that one project will cost and what the one project will be!
It is not fair of the county to have us vote blindly and have them (BOS) select what project and how much we pay AFTER THE 218 VOTE!
If the county can't do it right, there should be only two projects - not three. By having three, it waters down the vote for alternatives or step/steg and Tri-W in or out of town will win.
The word "process" is another word for the "yes" 218 vote. The RWQCB uses this word over and over which still makes what they're doing electioneering. The county uses it over and over to promote the yes vote which is illegal for them to do.
How can anyone in their right mind trust the process when the RWQCB and the county are still doing illegal activities?
We are being bullied and blackmailed and tricked. I'm glad YOU support their "process"! You fool...
Anon:
"So IF you get your wish, and the CCC decides they no longer care about that condition, and they say the CDP is valid anyway, what will you say then?"
It will be hard for me to say anything at that point, because my jaw will be on the ground. Because, if that scenario you mentioned happens, that means that the Coastal Cpommission will be allowing an industrial sewer plant in the middle of Los Osos forever, and the only reason they signed-off on the location in the first place, will no longer be part of it.
I've corresponded with Monowitz a lot, and I just don't see that happening, ever.
And, then, the next thing I would say, after I scooped my jaw off the floor, would be, "I want my revocation hearing now, please."
IF Tri-W somehow makes it through, and IF it is selected in the survey, then that means only two things could have happened: Massive thumbs on the scale, and YET ANOTHER saturation, behavior-based marketing campaign loaded with lots of "compelling language."
Are you up for another round of behavior-based marketing, Los Osos? Because if Tri-W is anywhere near the table at the time of the survey or 218 vote, that's exactly what you are going to get. And I, unlike the Tribune, will make sure to report on it, as usual.
Richard wrote:
"Ok Ron, as I blogged before, file your lawsuit on this issue."
Where are you getting that from? What makes you think I'm going to sue anyone? All I'll need is a one hour revocation hearing presentation, and that will be that. It's so easy. Just ask the former jet skiers at Old Porte beach.
Anon:
"Didn't the Coastal Commission ALREADY review the permit for validity?
I believe Directors Tacker and Schicker lead the charge to revoke the permit."
They did, but their arguments weren't, how shall I put this... very good. Now, if they had used my arguments, instead of their's, the Tri-W CDP would have been revoked in 2004.
Their attorneys should give them their money back for not seeing the correct arguments -- arguments that were sitting right in front of them.
M.G. wrote:
"Sorry Ron, I didn't mean to draw you into another LO quagmire! "
Water on duck, my friend. Water on a duck.
Anon:
"Ann and Ron are NOT looking for honesty!"
I can't answer for Ann, but I'm looking for honesty, along with a TAC review on Special Condition of Approval #17 in the Tri-W CDP. (I mean, c'mon. There are something like 72 conditions of approval, and all I'm asking is that ONE be reviewed.)
Shark wrote:
"... they've never picked on Sylvia ... perhaps they have fond memories of buying auto parts from her shop as do I."
That's actually a really good point. I put Sylvia in the same category as a lot of other people and agencies, like Richard LeGros and the Tribune -- she simply f-d up and trusted Nash-Karner.
And, yes, I do have fond memories of auto part shopping at her store, and her cool, lime green Volkswagen diesel truck.
"Ron only wants to ask about ancient history..."
Ancient history that is, unfortunately for California taxpayers, completely relevant today.
Anon:
"Sara Wan of the Costal Commission stated that the permit on Tri-W is no longer valid..."
and;
"Steve Monowitz of the Costal Commission was quoted as saying "If we knew then what we know now, we would have never permitted Tri-W."
You wouldn't happen to know the source on those quotes, would you? A document? A newspaper report? I'd be very interested in those sources. Because, if those are accurate quotes, then Tri-W is gonzo, and your conclusion is a great, great question.
By the way, if that Monowitz quote is accurate, the reason he says that is because he's a fan of SewerWatch, and NOW, unlike from 2001 - 2004, he knows all about the circumstances swirling around Special Condition of Approval #17, and the dramatic impact it has had on this entire, very expensive, train wreck.
Shark:
"... TriW is being considered is that CEQA requires all viable alternatives to be considered"
That's correct. So, even if it is a viable alternative, which it's not, then why didn't they consider it in the ROUGH screening process? Then they could have just said, "Hey, we considered it, as per CEQA, and we concluded it was never going to work, as per SewerWatch."
I pretty much agree with the 8:22 post, and don't consider the poster a "fool" like 10:43 does.
If there are only going to be two, final, options before a Prop 218 vote is taken the CEQA analysis will have to be done on all of the various alternatives (plus Tri-W) in the County's fine screening report. This will take time and money--a considerable amount of it. I believe that I heard that it will cost at least $2-3,000,000 additional to get through the environmental phase. The County is not going to front that unless a 218 vote has passed. So, where will this come from?
The other problem that I see with limiting the options to two is determining what those two will be. For example, there are two very different types of collection systems, gravity and step. Those are two distinct choices right there. There are two different types of locations--Tri-W and out of town. Most important to me is the fact that there are at least three different levels of ground water recharge to choose from. The more the benefit, the more the cost.
So, how do the options get reduced down to just two? This is why the County process should work best. After a funding vote, the options would have their environmental review. Based on that, there would be cost estimate refinements and the County survey, or whatever they are calling it, to see which of all the options the most people prefer.
By the way, I am involved with some project management on my job, and there is absolutely no way for anyone to know exactly what a project will cost before it is designed and all environmental conditions are set by the regulatory agencies. Pre-design estimates are usually plus or minus 30%. Whenever I read people saying that there should be an absolute total cost cap on the 218 vote, it is clear that they have never been involved in construction project management.
As an industrial construction project manager with a couple degrees and some 35+ years experience in managing world wide projects from $1K to $2B. The poster @ 11:18am is absolutely correct! The cost of producing a project cost report which would be at least 100% +/- 10% accurate would in itself be prohibitive in terms of meaningful time to produce.
For purposes of the County's Process, all that is needed is a reasonable estimate with a range from low to highest possible. This process is very similar to planning any new major private project. This is know as establishing a budget which would then be approved/disapproved by upper management. Once approved, the design is produced and the budget refined. Actually the budget and schedule are usually works in progress and constantly refined. No one ever intentionally wants to be part of an overrun, particularily on a government project!
The individuals who want a perfect, single project, fully designed and costed, are only attempting to further stall this project. They already know there are multiple designs and locations being considered. They also know that there are rough estimates and that the upper end of the range of estimates will be what the property owners will be looking at comes time to vote to assess our selves. We will not be voteing on a fixed contract price! We will be voteing on setting an upper limit as to what we as a community will be willing to accept. This will not be what the final project will cost! The project will be considerably less!
Voteing No is a just an ignorant waste of time by those who either want no sewer or are expecting a perfectly defined project and 100% accurate costing.
yadda, yadda, yadda ....
and then I had an epiphany of sorts. Like many others I've been a supporter of honesty and good process throughout this long affair. Thinking that honesty and good process are both good things and generally produce good results. D'uh! What a fool I've been. This is government. And honesty and good process is an anathema to government. As government - as typically practiced - has little to no room for honesty and clean process. Simply put we're asking the zebra to change its stripes, walk on its hind legs and sing an aria. Like mixing oil and water, taint gonna happen.
So, with respect to SOC's and CEQA overrides and anything else involved in a permitting process a permit as issued through governmental process isn't really based on factual criteria. It is based on compromise and subterfuge and .... everything else which makes government go. A permit doesn't validate anything except to say enough palms were crossed, backs were scratched and/or confusion allowed to permit a permit to be issued. That's what 'permitable' means.
Ron > You know what bugs me in the draft FSR? They say Tri-W is getting "carried through" the fine screening process because it was shown to be "permitable," -- sure it took "bait and switchy" and a bunch of other regulatory sleight of hand to get it permitted -- but the county doesn't seem to care about all of that, they just keep saying say that it was shown to be "permitable." .... So why is THAT project, a project that was NEVER shown to be permitable, still being "carried through" the fine screening process?
Exactly. Something that is 'permitable' - however it got there - doesn't imply it fully meets permit criteria. It is permitable because it slipped along with sufficient grease to get close enough to collect a permit. So the county is perfectly willing to accept that Tri-W is permitable. A subtle distinction perhaps but an important one when discussing Tri-W.
Here's another way of looking at it: Permit as a noun is an authoritative or official certificate of permission. That's the definition we've tended to presume is operating here. It implies that specific criteria are met and signed off on and a certificate of compliance is issued. But 'permitable' can mean something else too. It is 'permit' used as a verb. Which means something is made possible or given opportunity. The fact that Tri-W is permitable to the extent that it was permited is good enough for the county to count it as permitted. Got it?
Now, before I'm flamed, I'm not against Tri-W perse. IF Tri-W fully met all the permitting criteria - with no sleight of hand or political play or any other subterfuge - I'm all for it. I'm long over my initial subjective concerns about putting a sewer in the middle of town. If it's a good sewer and if it meets all the rules and regs that good sewers in sensitive locations need to meet; and if it provides appropriate service for all the PZ (including build-out); and if it satisfies all discharge requirements (now and in the foreseeable future); and if it doesn't exacerbate freshwater drawdown (preferably it should help freshwater recharge); If that's what its permit means then I'm all for it. And if it's cheaper (or no more expensive) than other options all the better. With or without the park (although the park would be nice, eh?). But I don't think that's what the Tri-W permitting means. I'm not at all sure what it means. Except that some prior rubber stamping occurred via peculiar means and circumstance. So what is there in the permit of great or differential value?
So, uh, how do we turn this place into a monarchy? Are there any historical precedents for reverting a democracy to a monarchy? In Los Osos' case I think this sounds like a swell idea.
PS - Long Live the King!
I say good for the county as far as leaving Tri-W on the table. I'm sure it won't be considered when all is said and done, but as far as the hysteria it continues to engender in some people, it's presence is priceless. I still forward some stuff to a friend who until just recently was living in a FEMA trailer just outside New Orleans. He finds Los Osos fascinating.
Hey, I have an idea ...
Let's just all hope that an out of town WWTF ends up being less expensive than TriW after the various costs are fairly factored in ... that way we'll end up with the best of both worlds (well, the best of both worlds considering that we can't change history).
The lower cost will appeal to those who currently like TriW because they view out-of-town as causing delay and thus expense. The out-of-town-ness will appeal to those who have objections to TriW that are related to the location.
With an end surely in sight, what do you think of the possibility that a wwtf would be at Tri-W with recharge at Broderson, AND another toward SLO Town?
That would allow residential development which is greatly needed in the SLO area. A much larger population & tax base is needed inorder to support the possible incorporation into a Town. That would also help bring down the per home sewerage fee.
Sharkey bubbled:
"Hey, I have an idea ..."
Whoa bro, That one had me clicking on the ol name makin sure we didn't have those pesky spoofers again!
It really is a good idea though, but what I was hopin for, seein as we are all just sittin around waiting for the boot to drop, is another over the rainbow tune from you!
How about hitting "If I only had a drain" ?
To 11:18 & ll:51,
What you're trying to say is that a 218 is an open-ended blank check and I think not.
In 2001, when we voted for the 20 some million bond money, that's what we voted for, that exact amount.
I can not support the vote for a blank check. The only way for an affordable project is to vote no because the county is only giving the most expensive projects (and like in the past making step more expensive than it really is) and on top of that, only having some pay for the entire project, the most expensive system money can buy, our money, at a cost that will tax us out of our own homes (and when homes outside the PZ want to hook up they won't have to pay like us.)
If the county was really looking at the Step/Steg option they wouldn't have hired just the big pipe companies and would have talked with Orenco before the fine screeing to get the true numbers on that alternative, they would have investigated lower cost, sustainable projects like in Arcata or Petaluma. They did not. They hired the same companies that worked on Tri-W along with Corollo who only does big gravity systems.
The county could have done the 218 properly but decided to spend the money on Corollo, CMC, and MWH instead and then said, "we don't have the money to do it (right).."
Hi Ron and Ann,
Go ahead...file a lawsuit and/or request for a revocation hearing at the CCC to revoke the CDP on Tri-W. Take your pick. Do it, Please! I insist!
I blog this because a legal theory to base such a lawsuit and/or revocation request does not exist. To try to kill Tri-W using this issue is a fools' errand. You are just promoting more political nonesense to try to kill a valid, designed and permitted project.
I take your comments regarding a desire to avoid lawsuits with a grain of salt....after all, you guys love filng lawsuits. Between CASE,CCLO,LOTTF,LOTA, over 13 lawsuits as well as numerous request for revocation hearings, appeals, etc have been filed over the last 5 years.......and YOU HAVE LOST ALL OF THEM.
As for delaying the project with this lawsuit / revocation request, it will not cause any delay. A little aggrevation to the County and the CCC, but nothing more.
Regards, Richard LeGros
TO: 10:43,
YOU SAID, "The word "process" is another word for the "yes" 218 vote. The RWQCB uses this word over and over which still makes what they're doing electioneering. The county uses it over and over to promote the yes vote which is illegal for them to do."
I AGREE WITH YOU. THE COUNTY CAN NOT PROMOTE A YES ON A 218 VOTE - IT IS ILLEGAL. THEIR LAWYERS BETTER WATCH OUT FOR THAT BECAUSE THEY KNOW BETTER.
YOU ALSO SAID, "we are being bullied and blackmailed and tricked."
YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT BEING BLACKMAILED-TRICKED-BULLIED BUT THAT WHAT HAS WORKED IN THE PAST AND WILL PROBABLY WORK AGAIN!
SmartVoter
Conspiracy Boy:
Why do you come on here every night and tell us you will not support the 218 vote? We know that already. And we don't give a shit. Can't you concentrate on other conspiracies like the Kennedy assasination; the alien landing at Roswell, and I have to tell you, I never did believe we actually landed on the moon in 1969. Can't you shed any light on these happenings for us? Just for a change of pace?
Amen Brother, Amen!
6:30 and 6:47 have every right to think the way that they do, regardless of how wrong it is.
I agree with Conspiracy Boy.
You Dreamers need to retreat to the Trib site where the trash hangs out. Infecting this blog with your greedy, bloodthirsty eat-thy-neighbor love affair with yourself isn't going to change the fact that voting against the 218 is not only our ONLY option, it always was our best option. We just had to wade through this red tide of Dreamer sea scum to get to this point where the town finally had a chance to vote for an affordable sewer.
A vote for the 218 is not a vote at all -- just a no-choice vote for the expensive or more expensive project. That's it. The "no" vote is the "yes" vote for the best project for Los Osos.
So you fat frigid Dreamer women and fatter impotent Dreamer men can grab your ankles, because you WILL lose again and again...over and over...because you don't have a clue, never did, never will. Yelping and woofing here just shows how terribly desperate you are as the hour of your next colossal failure draws near.
Enjoy the plunge, Richard, our own local Wiley Cayote: The cartoon always ends the same way.
Did we get crossed with a middle school blog?
No. Just a move-the-sewer/no-sewer obstructionist. But isn't that the same thing?
Isn't this the way the MTS folks have treated all who disagree? IIs there any wonder why most of the community don't go to CSD meetings? Unfortunately, many of them also gave up on voteing which is just what these obstructionists want, no opposition, no plan, no sewer, no funds in the District treasury.
Except now, the County and the BOS appear ready to run right through those immature obstructionists!
Keep up the cheerleading Ann and Ron, you are reaping what you sow. Your playmates would turn on you in a moment if you ever even scolded them!
Put down the hookah, LeGross, and join the real world. It's different than you think beyond your front door, if you can make it that far.
Great comment Julie
It never ceases to amaze...
What you Dreamers never grasp is that you're WRONG. Dead wrong. On just about everything. Always were. Fundamentally incorrect in your basic assumptions, and assumptions is all they ever were, and assumptions can kill and they have. Now your kids may love you, and they may not know this about you yet, but you're ALL WRONG.
Your numbers are wrong. Your facts are wrong. Your thinking is wrong. Your morals are wrong. And this is surely "THE TAXPISSERS WASTE OFFICIAL GUIDE TO LOSING & LOSING BIG," as any fool should know, especially you recitivists. Yet, you hapless losers persist in pushing your master plan to cleanse Los Osos of anyone who doesn't look or act like you, anyone who doesn't know the truth about what damage you've done to our town. How tragic is the hell you continue to put us through with your frivolous nuisanace lawsuits! What a terrible human toll you've taken with your filthy corruption. You have community blood on your hands. Gordon Hensley should have been behind bars long ago. Trib scribblers CrapKiller, Sewerpuppy, Richard, Maria -- you are weak, cowardly clones addicted to getting your tail feathers torched, a bunch of self-loathing crybabies who can't take what you dish out. And so you come running to Ann's blog to make it your fire hyrdrant, hoping that by blotting out reality maybe your fantasy will come true. Well it won't. Only your worst nightmare will come true.
NO ON 218 IS A YES FOR THE BEST PROJECT FOR LOS OSOS. THAT'S A FACT, NOT ONE LAST DESPERATE GASP FROM BRIBED LIARS HENSLEY, LEGROS, and GUSTAFSON WHO FLED TO IOWA.
Hey Anonymous of 9:29pm ...
When you write "Your numbers are wrong. Your facts are wrong. Your thinking is wrong." and "How tragic is the hell you continue to put us through with your frivolous nuisanace lawsuits!" I've got to wonder whether you are referring to the Dreamers or the other group.
You see, you haven't really pointed out any particular errors in the numbers and it would seem the the majority of lawsuits related to matters sewer have been filed by folks who aren't at all part of the Dreamer camp.
Just wondering...
Hey Sharky,
Re: Nuisance Lawsuits. Where and when does it stop? Certainly not with you. All you're doing is defending what Taxpissers Waste is doing with their lawsuits, draining money from the CSD -- and therefore the real taxpayers of Los Osos. This is indefensible. And so you bring in the other lawsuits to justify the fact that you are WRONG.
Re: Numbers. You can make numbers do anything you want. You should know that better than anyone. That's what you and Richard have wasted our time juggling to make Tri-W looks viable when it isn't. That's what crooks do. Numbers are what the County is juggling when they inflate STEP/STEG numbers vs. gravity and try to make gravity look almost reasonable. You and the County are wrong to be cooking the numbers, and we'll all end up paying for this, including you. Obviously the TAC is biased, you feel you have to fix the numbers to convince people, and all you have fought for is lost, based on a flawed batch of horrible assumptions that you and your Dreamers have turned into a religion to soothe your many wounds.
Separating what ails you from what's best for the community, everyone who votes "no" on the 218 is voting "yes" on the best project for Los Osos. It's not only our only option, it always was the best one to begin with. This will be the story in the end, in part because of the negative campaigning -- and downright filthy rudeness -- of those who claim to be your closest friends.
All you are doing is uniting factions of the community that ordinarily wouldn't give each other the time of day.
Congratulations, Dopey. Or are you Sleezy?
Anonymous 11:26PM said...
Congratulations on the best view of the insanity which has delayed a sewer in Los Osos. You truly represent the Extremist position!
Congratulations to Ann and Ron, you have help create the Anonymous 11:26PM. There is no acountability for the statements, no facts, just raw emotion similar to Al Barrows outbursts. As this individual continues this line of thinking, there will be a time coming when a gun will be pulled and someone killed, a house will be burnt, all because a damn sewer!!!
Ann, you specifically should take particular pride in agitating this individual with your inflamitory writing style and dramatic presentations. You are feeding volitility into that individuals aggressive behaviour. Laugh it off, but that person is extremly sick and will kill someone. Just read his nightly responses, they are growing more violent every day!
Headlines of "Sewer or Die" are just feeding this person with all he needs to go over the final edge! This person has personalized his threats more and more!
Inlet sez:"The County wants to do their best to be able to later say "we gave you the three most realistic options that met various requirements and thats what you chose". This still won't satisfy conspiracy theorists and a few others of note, but it will satisfy some of those who ... because of the big lie ... were told that TriW was chosen based on tainted logic."
When the Ponds of Avalon bit the dust, what you describe above SHOULD have happened. It didn't. One of the reasons it didn't is because (as Paavo publicly noted and I believe him since he was present at the creation) the CSD simply didn't have the resources to do what the county's doing now. So, from day one, the Process was screwed.
As for my "modest proposal," I was asking for a Chinese menu vote way back when I asked Bruce Buel in a CSD meeting to give me the best guestimate for running a pipe out of town for a plant outof town and his best guestimate was 5-6 mil more, then came the staff report by the CC that stated moving the plant out of town would be a mil less or 5=6 mil more and I thought and said, minus one or plus five-six mil on a hundred million loan is CHUMP CHANGE, that shuld go to the voters to decide since the price given was completely in the ball park. That didn't happen. The post recall October Compromise had the numbers still in the ball park, so an advisory vote should have happened but didn't. This time, an advisory vote WILL happen, so this time (because the county has the resources) the homeowners and community will finally get a Chinese Menu choice -- Column A for X$ or Column B for Y$ and with both you get egg roll.
Anonymous sez:"They also know that there are rough estimates and that the upper end of the range of estimates will be what the property owners will be looking at comes time to vote to assess our selves. We will not be voteing on a fixed contract price! We will be voteing on setting an upper limit as to what we as a community will be willing to accept. This will not be what the final project will cost! The project will be considerably less!
Voteing No is a just an ignorant waste of time by those who either want no sewer or are expecting a perfectly defined project and 100% accurate costing."
Yep, PLUS, the county has the really difficult task of separating waste from WATER. That's gonna be a bear, especially since I don't think they have a mechanism to assess people outside the PZ for WATER BENEFITS, except on a "voluntary" roundabout basis, and they can't stick the PZ owners with those water benefits for folks outside the PZ, only "waste" benefits and some water benefits inside the PZ, so there's still a huge elephant sitting in the room. And its costs will have to be added on in some form or other further down the pike.
PG-13 sez:"This is government. And honesty and good process is an anathema to government. As government - as typically practiced - has little to no room for honesty and clean process."
There's another problem. Even with the most honest of processes and most honest of governments, once a mistake is made the system simply makes it nearly impossible to undo. It's like one of those pitcher plants that lure in, trap, then digest flies. Fly can't back up. If the CC was snookered, they can't/won't admit it to save face and/or avoid lawsuits. Ditto SWB and that unsecured, shakey loan, & Just Who DID Breach that CSD Contract? & etc. Incompetence and/or dishonesty, once committeed, are almost always impossible to undo. The system isn't built to let that happen.
Anonymous sez:"Did we get crossed with a middle school blog?
8:26 PM, June 14, 2007 "
Happens once in a while, kinda like a weird time warp.
Anonymous sez:"Congratulations to Ann and Ron, you have help create the Anonymous 11:26PM. There is no acountability for the statements, no facts, just raw emotion similar to Al Barrows outbursts. As this individual continues this line of thinking, there will be a time coming when a gun will be pulled and someone killed, a house will be burnt, all because a damn sewer!!! "
Sorry to disappoint you, ANONYMOUS, but ANONYMICE have been ANONYMOUSLY posting on blogs for years. Indeed, YOU'RE the one responding to Anonymous -- ANONYMOUSLY, I might add -- and putting forth the idea of guns and burned houses and such like. My writing style has been my writing style in print and on the blog for a long time now."Snarky," is how someone once defined it a long time ago. As for what and how people think, take another read of some of the ANONYMOUS posters here -- including yourself -- and you'll get a very interesting glimpse of some pretty ugly things. A blogsite comment section didn't create those ugly things. My column writing style didn't create those ugly things.Indeed, I could just as easily claim that YOU -- Mr. Ms. ANONYMOUS -- are guilty of fomenting violence in YOUR comments.
One of the most interesting questions for which I doubt there is an answer is this: How many comments in this blog and other blogs would have the same tone and tenor if people were required to OWN their opinions and statements by putting their REAL names on them? Would you care to do that? I have and do. How's about all you other ANONYMICE? Maybe OWNING your own opinions would lower the hysteria level a bit, you think?
To our anonymous friend of June 14, 11:26pm ...
It would seem that when asked to justify your earlier statement you either didn't bother or simply can't.
It seems as if you are treating this discussion as an opportunity to vent rather than to dialog with those in our community who might be interested in your point of view. I, for one, would love to see a reasonable presentation of why (for example) the Orenco numbers actually make sense. As an example, after looking thru their website (someone referred me there) it seems that they typically design systems that can handle 100+ gallons per person per day but ... interestingly enough, the system they've proposed for Los Osos is about half that. It would seem to me that they might have done this to convince us that they're cheapest ... but that later ... once we've bought in ... they'll tell us that we need a system that is about twice the size "because the RWQCB requires it" and the total cost will be nearly 50% higher. Then there's the whole financing issue. If you or someone would just explain why that would make sense I would be a very interested reader.
As to the question of nuisance lawsuits ... it would seem to me that if the plaintiff wins the suit it is not so much a nuisance as a valid issue ... but on the other hand, if the plaintiff loses it might be considered a nuisance suit. On that score, how many of the TW initiated suits did TW win? How many of the lawsuits by CASE, CCLO, LOTTF, LOTA, etc. have been won by the folks you seem to support.
Perhaps you could also justify your claim that TW lawsuits are really a drain on the LOCSD budget. It would seem that since the recall, the board has given more money to Al/Keith/BWS than they've paid to defend against TW. Who really has been a drain on the budget?
Lastly ... if you would care to explain the errors in any financial calculations I've made I would love to make corrections. Point out the biases and I'll either change or explain my point of view.
Lastly ... if the game is "if you had to be one of the seven dwarfs, which one would you be" I would have to answer Doc ... or Sleepy. How about you?
There is no question why the County has the sewer project and why they should simple ram it through with absolutely no further public input!
Hysterical Anon 9:29:
I find it funny all you no-sewer losers are insulted you are called "no sewer" instead of "move-the-sewer," but you have no problem lumping all who support the county process, regardless of where the sewer ends up, as "dreamers." But then again, after reading your pure unadulterated, immature, incredibly retarded BS, I wouldn't expect anything you'd say to make sense.
ANN:
THERE YOU GO AGAIN, SAYING: This time, an advisory vote WILL happen, so this time (because the county has the resources) the homeowners and community will finally get a Chinese Menu choice -- Column A for X$ or Column B for Y$ and with both you get egg roll.
IT'S A SURVEY, ANN, AND WE WON'T GET TO DECIDE A DARN THING. THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WILL SELECT WHAT "THEY" WANT FOR LOS OSOS. BRUCE GIBSON IS ON RECORD SAYING THAT EVEN IF THE VOTERS DECIDE ON A PARTICULAR PROJECT THE BOS DOES NOT, I REPEAT, DOES NOT HAVE TO GO WITH THE VOTER'S DECISION. THIS BIG PROJECT VOTE WILL HAPPEN SO FAST, YOU WON'T KNOW WHAT HIT YOU.
AGAIN, THE "SURVEY" WILL NOT HAPPEN UNTIL AFTER THE 218 VOTE, AND BY THEN IT WILL BE TOO LATE TO TURN BACK. WE'LL BE STUCK PAYING FOR AN OUT-DATED, NON-SUSTAINABLE, OVER-PRICED MONSTER THAT WILL FORCE MANY OF US OUT (ANYONE WHO OWNS HAS LOST ABOUT $100,000. ON OUR HOUSE ALREADY AND MORE EVERY SINGLE DAY, OH, AND JUST WAIT FOR THAT MONSTER CONSTRUCTION TO START)--
NO, THE COUNTY IS PUTTING IN THE MEGA SEWER TO COVER UP THE MISTAKES THE COUNTY HAS MADE!
YOU, ANN, HAVE LIVED HERE LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT SHIRLEY, BRUCE, NOEL, PAAVO, PANDORA, THE STATE, THE REGIONAL BOARD, ETC. ETC. WANTS FOR LOS OSOS. IT'S PRETTY CLEAR.
DO YOU OWN OR RENT ANN?...JUST WONDERING...
Get your facts together!
Is there a SLO County Prop 8 Declining Value Assessment for all properties in Los Osos? NOT!
The California Housing Market in general has been declining for the last 2 years for a number of reasons. Believe it or not, but as deeply involved as you seem to be, the Los Osos sewer is not causing property values to decline as much as you have convinced your self to believe!
You have done a remarkable job of causing confusion and ultimately delay of the community sewer and if you wish to sell now at a fire sale price, I'm sure there will be several folks willing to take your problem property off your hands very quickly! In fact it would be to your advantage to sell now and move before you have to pay for a sewer!
"...HAVE LIVED HERE LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT SHIRLEY, BRUCE, NOEL, PAAVO, PANDORA, THE STATE, THE REGIONAL BOARD, ETC. ETC. WANTS FOR LOS OSOS. IT'S PRETTY CLEAR."
What is "pretty" clear?
Wow Anon 10:46!!!You're in a panic, aren't you!! Well, I own my friend. I'm not being forced to move anywhere. Whatever my house is losing now I will more than recoup when the sewer is built. And I'll gladly help you move when the time comes. Have a great day. (and stop shouting by all means. You're going to kill yourself before you even get that chance to move!!)
I don't get why certain people are so sure that if the 218 fails the wastewater project will immediately be done by Orenco.
Orenco, a profit making company, somehow has more ethics than the County?
Do you think Orenco will downplay our creditworthlessness to its investors? Or that the investors will not find out that we are a deeply divided community? Do you think the number of $50 million tossed about on this blog are actual figures and not just a sales pitch number? Do you think private companies are in business for altruistic reasons?
I am simply pointing out that so much distrust in one direction and so much trust in another seems naive, and that this thought process is equally weak in thinking Orenco will be next in line to do the project. (Even the CSD would have to do RFP's - on what money? - to get several bidders.)
Now maybe I am getting paranoid - been on this blog too long - but what if all this Orenco noise is just another delay tactic for no sewer? You know, crash the 218 and then the CSD flounders around with Orenco, convincing (NOT!) the Water Board to lay off - that's what the joint CSD/PZLDF lawsuit is all about - to keep the Water Board off our backs for as long as possible - to delay things down to maybe composting toilets looking like a good idea (NOT! - if you want to sell your house) to the Water Board.
I'm just so tired of the fight. Why do people keep wanting to stop this thing? The methods to make it happen will get a lot uglier after this round.
You are not paranoid - you are exactly right on! Just more delay opportunities with smoke and mirrors! They never had a plan, do not have a plan today and never will have a plan in the future! They simply do not want a sewer in Los Osos! Orinco/Conspiracy Boy is one of the worst in the crusade against any sewer!
Sharky,
Is this one of your closest friends?
5:44 AM, June 15, 2007 "As this individual continues this line of thinking, there will be a time coming when a gun will be pulled and someone killed, a house will be burnt, all because a damn sewer!!!
Laugh it off, but that person is extremly sick and will kill someone. Just read his nightly responses, they are growing more violent every day!
Uh, you got a problem -- and it isn't me.
It's clear how desperate you Dreamers have become and to what depths you'll sink to destroy Los Osos and everyone in it if the 218 doesn't pass. Fact is, you've got a patent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and you're right on schedule for your latest collapse, playing the fear card from the bottom of the deck. And the irony is, you are driving you're own political demise...as usual...again.
The 218 was yours, in your hands, and you blew it. I tried to warn you, but apparently you have little control over your hit squads.
I don't blame you, although you could demonstrate more leadership. It's true. This generation of Dreamer has none of the "class" and "pizzazz" of the old board Dreamers. These are the Trash Dreamers, the Carpetbaggers. Pandora may still be your Tooth Fairy, but none of her marketing savvy has rubbed off on you or your herd. Without her, you are just Taxpissers Waste, a shadowy group of revenge-twisted obstructionists dedicated to the overthrow of the duly elected government (no matter how lame they are) -- and overturning all previous (lost) elections -- by hook, lie or suit. It leaves me wondering what kind of makeover would Pandora do for you and the County now, now when she's must needed? But you do what you have to do, Dreamer, do what you're compelled to do, because you are certainly not working towards what is best for the community. Quite the opposite.
The County campaign has been stillborn from the start. They refuse to believe they can't force a megaproject on Los Osos. They are mistaken.
Criticize the board (and they've earned it for sure), but you've got some friends walking around wearing explosive vests, so how right or righteous can you possibly be about anything? You, too, are known by the company you keep, and they're not just just bad, they're rotten to the core -- well worth voting against the 218 just to watch them suffer.
To our most recent anonymous friend of 1:40pm who addressed me in your post ...
I have no idea what you're writing or what you mean.
Perhaps you should re-write and focus on a single issue or perhaps two ... and develop your thoughts a bit more slowly and carefully.
I would love to know what you mean, but what you wrote just doesn't convey any understanding.
Get back to us .... and maybe choose a blogger identity (much like PG, FBLEG and Mike Green have done) ... it will make the conversation go more smoothly.
"…well worth voting against the 218 just to watch them suffer."
Anon 1:40, you are one mentally ill and delusional individual. That "watch-them-suffer" mentality is just what is likely to spin out of control. Get some help before you do something we will all regret.
Has anyone noticed that the most vocal obstructionist tend to be multiple property owners? There are some who only own one home but many, many of them own multiple homes and more specifically, the PZ. Doesn't Gail own a home in the PZ? I would like to see a vote of the PZ home owners who only own the home they live in and that is their only asset. It is the American Dream after all. Are you anti-dreamers really trying to destroy the only chance some of us have at a piece of any pie? Is your vengeance so deep that you are willing to sacrifice us because we don't agree with fighting anymore?
You are Fatah. You are the hostage holders. You are what you say others are. You are willing to sacrifice our waters for your vengeance.
Orenco Boy AKA Conspiracy Boy and my bet AKA Al Barrow (because he shouts all the time hence must be hard of hearing) is a dope obviously. He's just trying his hardest to get a rise out of everyone here who supports the county effort. Might even be Joey Racano, who knows. But I for one enjoy his posts each day immensely. You can't script this kind of entertainment. Oh Conspiracy Boy. Tell us all a story. Please Conspiracy Boy. Tell us all about the white knight Orenco, and the mean old county, and how we're all gonna be living on the streets soon. We love you Conspriacy Boy!!!!!
TO: 5:44,
you say..."Congratulations on the best view of the insanity which has delayed a sewer in Los Osos. You truly represent the Extremist position!"
First of all the blogger who you are writing to makes sense - common sense - words the community must hear. I hardly think he/she is an extremist. He/she is saying what needs to be said.
What you want for Los Osos is a disaster. It's a definite health hazard (experts ALL agree on that) it's a construction nightmare and flaws and/or mistakes could quite possibly condemn our houses in a worse case scenario.
When you have NO infrastructure for 4,500 homes in makes no sense to do gravity at this point when step has much less impact on the community and step/steg works better anyway.
You may say "Orenco Boy" or "Conspiracy Boy" but I am not. My friends and neighbors are not - and we blog.
I guess you have to say it's all one guy, because that's what you want. You keep posting over and over, from 5:30 in the morning until 10:30 at night. YOU need to get a life. But I think YOU are getting paid to monitor this site and try with Sharkinlet to influence the 218 vote. I say, GOOD LUCK!
Gordon, Richard, Stan, and Pandora probably already got their "kick back money" from the contractors who bid Tri-W for almost 50% over. No wonder they HAVE TO HAVE TRI-W BACK! They're working so hard for it and the county works with Richard, Gordon and Pandora.
So who is getting the kick back from Orenco? They refused to meet with the county.
Anonymous 4:46 PM, June 15, 2007 said...
"Gordon, Richard, Stan, and Pandora probably already got their "kick back money" from the contractors who bid Tri-W for almost 50% over. No wonder they HAVE TO HAVE TRI-W BACK! They're working so hard for it and the county works with Richard, Gordon and Pandora."
Would you like to retract that outright lie? You certainly don't have the guts to tell any of them to their faces. You coward, gutless coward! You don't know any of those folks and you don't know the County!
And tell us just how you like your "kickback" from the CSD to "settle" your lawsuits that the CSD had already won!!!!!!!!!!!!
Orenco is lower than septic scum for even associating with you! YOU are the BIG reason, Orenco was AFRAID to meet with the County!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anon 4:46,
YOU'RE A COWARDLY LIAR.
YOU'RE A COWARDLY LIAR.
YOU'RE A COWARDLY LIAR.
YOU'RE A COWARDLY LIAR.
Now that I have your attention, stop spreading the absolutely false
story that past CSD board members have received "kickbacks" from the Tri-W contractors. It is apalling that you feel so free to smear your neighbors with such outrageous lies.
After the recall, you and yours filed a complaint with the FBI against several past board members regarding your lie. After a indepth investigation by a special agent, he immediately closed the investigations as the allegations are untrue.
Meanwhile, why don't you do something that your good at; like doing squat-thrusts on a fire hydrant!
Anon 4:46,
Who do think you are bullshitting? You have no friends and your neighbors want nothing to do with you.
If you are so sure some past board members received kickbacks, then you should be calling for a State or Federal investigation once again. But you only dream these things. Your dreams are all you have left in your life. You are so miserable with your own existence that you wish these things on the folks you don't agree with. You can't even get along with Ann. So enjoy your wretched life, we all wish you a more happier life in the there-after. Until then, you are just a coward of the very lowest kind!
to: 11:15 RE: REAL ESTATE MARKET
THE HOUSES HAVE DROPPED ABOUT $50,000 to $100,000.
YOU SHOULD DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
PEOPLE HAVE HAD TO DROP THEIR SELLING PRICES (ON THE AVERAGE HOME) ABOUT $50,000 to $100,000 COMPARED TO WHAT THE HOMES SOLD FOR TWO YEARS AGO.
MANY AGENTS HAVE ADMITTED THAT THE SEWER HAS CAUSED THE PROBLEM.
SOME HOUSES HAVE BEEN SITTING UNSOLD FOR WELL OVER A YEAR.
ARE YOU BLIND? DO SOME RESEARCH. THE MARKET IS DEAD.
THANK YOU RWQCB FOR KILLING IT -- ALL BECAUSE YOU INSIST ON DICTATING THE LOCATION OF THE SEWER AND TYPE OF TREATMENT EVEN THOUGH IT'S AGAINST THE LAW.
Since Charter Cable is off air tonight, I decided to become a new blogger, and am happy I am. This is better enterainment than anything on TV on a Friday night.
Did anyone notice the front page of the paper today?
There was a picture of Chuck with a mask on waving a plan from Orenco standing on the BOS dais.
I'm so glad he is going to free us from this nightmare.....
pinch me
The interesting thing is that Blakeslee's own neighbors think what he's doing to Los Osos is pretty low and that we're getting a raw deal.
I know of many influential people throughout the county who feel the same way.
Did we get cable back yet? Will we ever get cable back?
Question for the Orenco Spokesperson: Could you explain the Orenco Plan for us newbies? What is an Orenco?
Sigh. Did somebody mention Junior High? I suspect that's a lible agains Junion High kids. sigh.
anonymous sez:"EVEN IF THE VOTERS DECIDE ON A PARTICULAR PROJECT THE BOS DOES NOT, I REPEAT, DOES NOT HAVE TO GO WITH THE VOTER'S DECISION"
That's correct. "does not have to," but can if it wishes. The question would be, IF there is a clearly defined project that the majority of the community has been surveyed as prefering, why wouldn't the BOS say, Ok, if that's the one you want . . . ?
anonymous also said,"ARE YOU BLIND? DO SOME RESEARCH. THE MARKET IS DEAD."
Across the country and state, the market is down. Another one of those cyclical things, boom and bust, oversupply followed by undersupply. Interests rates are now rising, so homes will sell more slowly. Has nothing to do with a sewer. Interestingly, traditionally, homes on sewers are valued higher than homes on septics. When the sewer gets built, homes here will increase in value simply because of that "improvement." As for the area in general, look around. State parks to the west/south and north, greenbelts to the south, no water for build out, drop dead beautiful area. Traditonally, those elements do what to a community, vis a vis property values?
About the real estate, I've got to agree with Ann.
Just look at the numbers ...
If homes in Los Osos had dropped $100k more than homes in other areas of the County and it were only due to the sewer issue ... it would mean that the typical buyer thought the sewer bill would be about $400 per month higher than TriW. (And if the bill were only going to be $300 or $400 per month total, a drop in home prices of $100k would allow a real estate speculator to swoop in and make some money by buying under-priced property.) Simply put, even in an unstable market, prices don't drop much more than they should ... "market forces" will correct for that.
I would think that if the prices on homes in Los Osos had dropped by some $100k it would be due to the cumulative effect of many things, including interest rates, the market as a whole, demographics and the like.
I'm not saying that prices haven't gone down or that it's not in part due to the recall ... just that I don't believe the drop in prices that can be reasonably attributed to the recall probably isn't more than about $50k.
Ann,
Regarding your post:
anonymous sez:"EVEN IF THE VOTERS DECIDE ON A PARTICULAR PROJECT THE BOS DOES NOT, I REPEAT, DOES NOT HAVE TO GO WITH THE VOTER'S DECISION"
That's correct. "does not have to," but can if it wishes. The question would be, IF there is a clearly defined project that the majority of the community has been surveyed as prefering, why wouldn't the BOS say, Ok, if that's the one you want . . . ?
Boy, Ann, you're asking me? I'm just repeating what Gibson is on record saying. Why don't YOU ask the county or Bruce Gibson why they wouldn't have to go with what the voters wanted. Maybe TAC may suggest something different than the people or whatever. Be creative -- the county has been.
Do you really think the BOS may "wish" to give us step/steg or clusters or anything affordable if that's what came out on top in a "survey"? They didn't care to investigate Petaluma or Arcata or Orenco (until after the fine screening) or others who were interested in working in Los Osos. Tell us why Ann! They aren't accepting anything simple or affordable.
As far as the real estate market, before you write about it you should talk to some agents here and see what they have to say. So, I guess you know more than they do (and they do it for a living -- okay Ann...) Obviously, you haven't talked to any local agents, brokers or homeowners. The market won't return to normal for at least five years because nobody will want in during the construction.
You don't know what you're talking about sometimes Ann, because you are "way off base" here.
Do you rent? That would explain some of why you write what you do...
Sharkinlet:
You are so full of bullshit. It's amazing.
I've studied this market for a long time and you don't know more than the realtors.
Most will not buy into the mess in Los Osos, and once under construction, forget about it!
I know of many people who have sold or are trying and the prices have dropped $50,000 to $100,000 from what they were 2-3 years ago -- the agents don't like to talk about it but the market is in real bad shape and will not bounce back for many years. Sure it's not good all over the country. The market peaked. But Los Osos is an entirely different story and YOU know it.
Inventory will control the market moron! The speculators will wait -- I've talked to brokers.
To our most recent but somewhat rude friend of 11:03am ...
Your final statement that the speculators will wait essentially tells me that speculators already know that they could make money but that they expect individuals to panic and try to sell at a loss.
You're essentially telling us that even though the sewer won't cost us $100k per household more than TriW would have, people who are selling are willing to sell for that much less than before.
You're telling us that sellers are panicking ... essentially the panic over the sewer and not the facts about the sewer situation that is causing prices to fall so much.
Maybe next time that you disagree with me you should actually disagree with me rather than write a whole bunch of stuff that backs up what I've been saying before you call me a moron.
Sheesh!
You don't seem to want to understand market dynamics. Maybe you should load up all your belongings in your backpack and ride your bike to the next patch of sand you can find. I have no patience with someone with no business sense crying about the real estate market.
You don't have a clue about the real estate market! Don't blame the sewer delay on the major decline in the market.
If you need somethng to blame, look at the greedy loan brokers who have lied to everyone just to make their commissions and also look at the real estate brokers for the investment games they have played to artificially pump up the market. There are a couple right her in Los Osos!
Yes, the sewer delays are affecting the market, but to a much lesser degree than you are giving credit.
If you have owned a home in Los Osos for more than 3 years, your homes market value, that is what you could actually sell it for, is still higher than the price you paid for it. But if you want to sell, just to get out, please do. If you have had the house less than 3 years, you may have seen a 5 to 15% drop depending on a lot of factors, like how well you maintained or renovated it, the sewer war being only a minor factor.
This is probably not a good time to tell you that had the sewer not have been halted, the sewer would be half way completed by now and the sewer would not be a factor in the declining market.
So, support the County and get the sewer going! The property tax records and recorded sales figures which I review daily as part of my job, aren't a crystal ball, but the decline does seem to have stablized with even a slight increase being seen. We may not see 2% to 4% per month rate of increase again soon, but the market recovery does not appear to be out there "many years"!
But do go ahead and dump your property if you actually own real estate or move somewhere where you'll be happy! It ain't here!
Chicken Little the Sky is Falling Anon 11:03:
What exactly is the reason for your posts? You and Conspiracy Boy and Orenco Boy (could you all be the same person?) come on here and regale us all with tales of woe, and apocalypse, and doom, and hysteria and conspiracy concerning, well, just about everything. What is your reason? Do you not think we need a sewer? Are you pushing a particlar system? Do you have facts, good hard facts to support all your wild accusations. Do you have facts to support Orenco's plan is better, more cost effective, even if Orenco is solvent enough to do this project? Do you have proof of wrong-doing with the county? The CSD? With anybody? If you do, PLEASE POST HERE. Good hard facts. If not, well, then you continue to make a complete, utter, unmitigated asshole of yourself. And you don't want that, do you? We surely don't want that for you. So pony up with the facts my friend. (And "I've studied this matter" or "I have friends who say..." doesn't count. Good hard facts.)
Real Estate salespeople and brokers always work the same way. They look at listed comparable housing to what you have and pressure you to list below the comp prices. If the price is low they will sell quickly: bargains always sell faster. They do not have to invest money on advertising, open houses, etc. Quick big money, little expense.
When a realtor or broker representing a buyer comes in, they also want even a greater bargain. They get paid by the listing broker.
The name of the game is to squeeze the property owner. Especially if the property owner has committed to buy another house.
As real estate firms do less and spend less, the internet becomes more important with virtual tours etc. Most buyers tell the realtors what they want to see, not simply wishing to be ferried around.
Commissions are coming down, and rightly so.
Thanks broker bill. What would be your reaction to Anon 11:03's comment that "Los Osos is an entirely different story and YOU know it."
Just one more factoid ... there are two or three homes (at least) for sale in Monarch Grove (with their own sewer). They haven't sold in months either and their asking prices are below what they would have been at the peak of the market ... at least $50k lower, probably more.
Shark,
There a 45 homes in Los Osos with liens on them. Many contain possible fines of $5000 a day retroactive to 1988. Please don't tell me that the action of the RWQCB hasn't effected the value of these homes.
If those randomly selected homeowners had not fought to protect all the homes in LO, we would all have liens on our property today.
Give credit where due
Right!
And the Los Osos sand removes all nitrates!
when were those liens placed on the homes 6:57?
They weren't! Just Conspiracy Boy trying to spread more smoke.
The CDOs are not just smoke. They are legal documents that give the RWQCB the ability to take the home if fines that amount to almost 2 million a year are not paid in a timely manner. Any buyers? Anonymous 7:22?
(The cheap new version that a few people received at the last hearing would only cost about $200,000. Such a deal.)
To: Anon 12:10PM
"So, support the County and get the sewer going! The property tax records and recorded sales figures which I review daily as part of my job, aren't a crystal ball, but the decline does seem to have stablized with even a slight increase being seen. We may not see 2% to 4% per month rate of increase again soon, but the market recovery does not appear to be out there "many years"!"
I wonder if you actually live in Los Osos. Do you?
I wonder if it's appropriate to blog and endorse the county project when you work for the county.
It is absolutely illegal for the county to promote the 218 vote!
So sue the County you whining bastard! We're tired of hearing you bitch about something you know nothing about!
Sue the County or Move! Those are your only 2 options!
Shark Inlet said...
"Just one more factoid ... there are two or three homes (at least) for sale in Monarch Grove (with their own sewer). They haven't sold in months either and their asking prices are below what they would have been at the peak of the market ... at least $50k lower, probably more."
You make my point. The big sewer will NOT increase the home values especially when you add the sewer lien of $50,000. or more. Some of said when all is said and done it could go to $100,000, but we'll see.
Many people were "sold" on Tri-W project on the very fact a sewer would increase their property value but that's not going to happen now.
Thanks for backing me up Mr. Inlet.
The point about the market here is that the "inventory" will dictate home values. There have never been more homes listed on the market in Los Osos (some very nice homes) -- whether it's people who just want out of the mess -- or people who know they can't afford the "big" sewer -- or people who are afraid of the CDO's -- or people who don't want to live in the construction -- this has all contributed to the very high inventory and decrease in the values. It is a "buyers" market, the buyers are "low balling" sellers because they can.
The homes have dropped $50-$100,000. depending on the home and area. Homes are sitting, just sitting, and there are few buyers.
To the ugly, pig-headed wench @ 8:10 PM.
Here's another option:
Take every single Dreamer and Taxpayers Watch member on a bus ride to Mexico, dig some shallow graves, and tell them to get on their knees and pray that God will forgive them in the end.
I would hope the posting as Anon 9:58 would receive some further investigation as to it's origin URL. That is a dangerous post.
To 11:07 PM,
I find that your hypocrisy is as dangerous as your post.
From all the years that I've spent living here in Los Osos, I've met the nicest people and I've met people who were so vile, they made my skin crawl when I stood near them.
That post up there: no, I've seen worse coming from people who have been the most vocal in favor of Tri-W and gravity collection. I'm talking about the people who have posted on this very blog that people should die from strokes. I'm talking about people who call those who disagree with them "dumb ass obstructionists." I'm talking about the people who spent countless hours of their time writing these highly detailed character assassinations. I'm talking about people who want to kick the working class out of Los Osos with an unaffordable sewer project.
I'm referring to the people who have punched, kicked, spit, and threatened those who disagreed with them. I'm referring to the elitist politicos on The Tribune message boards who talk about beating Jewish dissenters with baseball bats and hanging "Move the Sewer" advocates from eucalyptus trees. I'm referring to those who have lashed out at people's opinions with profanity-laced responses that incite tremendous amounts of hatred towards members of the community as well as the community at large.
Have you no shame?
I'm sure Anon 9:58 PM, June 16, 2007 was being metaphorical. That was my interpretation. Anon believes many of you, uh, Dreamers should seek forgiveness. And I would have to agree with Anon. You have destroyed so much of our community, you need to make amends and stop your nuisance lawsuits.
Whereas, 11:07 PM, June 16, 2007 needs to be investigated as a con, liar, fomenter and arsonist:
"I would hope the posting as Anon 9:58 would receive some further investigation as to it's origin URL. That is a dangerous post."
Mo, the above is "a dangerous post." Paid provocateurs promoting censorship to eliminate dissent against one person's opinion is doing nothing more than attempting to manipulate Ann to do her dirty work for her.
This person is obviously a county employee paid to blog for the county. Blog on then. Let the games continue! County employees get a special discount here -- twice the normal beating.
To All Commentors: Let me repeat. EVERYTHING in this comment section needs to be taken with about 800 lbs of salt.(And often anti-naseua pills) Everyone posting here is an Anonymice. PHONY, SINCERE, LYING, TRUTHFUL, ONE PERSON, TWELVE PEOPLE? ALL ANNONYMICE.
So, caveat emptor.
Well Ann, your blog is now being filled with the postings so similar to the vocalizations of the MTS sewer folks and all the threats heaped on the pre-recall BOD and the supporters of a sewer.
Last nights exchange was just another step toward some real violence. This is exactly why there are so few who attend CSD meetings, it's too damn dangerous! There are some folks out there who are willing to do anything to prevent or delay any sewer. Need proof? Read last night's postings! Those threats are real, not just "metaphorical"!!!! Those same type threats have been made to many members of this community, but until one of the wacko's actually kills someone, are you going to continue your cheerleading to further wind these idiots up?
This has become a dangerous game which has exposed the mind set of those who would do anything to promote their justification of stopping a legal project and lied about having some alternative project. There never was an alternative, but now the County has the project and those same wacko's are already violently against it, what ever and where ever it is! These folks simply want NO SEWER and are willing to go to extreme measures to obstruct any attempts to create one!
Anon's 11:42 and 11:46:
Huh? Your no-sewer obstructionists, led by the likes of Joey Racano: caught by New Times tossing their newspapers into the dumpster because he didn't like the order of a point/counterpoint concerning the sewer. This is fact, I'll help you find the story if you want. And a really good First Amenedment point. Your no-sewer obstructionists led by the likes of Michael Jones, caught and arrested for writing graffiti on the home of Jeff Edwards. I'll help you find that article as well. Your no-sewer obstructionists led by Al Barrow. Do you need any help here finding facts about his behavior? How about Gail McPherson? No shame is right my friend. No shame is right.
This has become a dangerous game which has exposed the mind set of those who would do anything to promote their justification of stopping a legal project and lied about having some alternative project."
Here is your violent obstructionist spreading the Big Lie wrapped in Fear.
Don't buy a used sewer from this Panic Sister. Vote NO on 218.
To Anon at 6:51,
You said, "This is exactly why there are so few who attend CSD meetings, it's too damn dangerous!..."
CAN I ASK THEN, SINCE AL IS GONE, AND YOU BLAME HIM, WHY IS THERE STILL SO MANY EMPTY SEATS FROM YOUR SIDE AT THE CSD MEETINGS?
If Joyce Albright can come to meetings and say the things she does and isn't afraid, then why are you or anyone else afraid? Is Maria afraid, is Lynette? I don't think so. They don't act afraid to me.
I don't think anyone has been in danger, you just don't like opposition or free speech.
TO THE SILLY SISTER AT 6:51:
You... silly you ... writing to Ann asking her:
"Are you going to continue your cheerleading to further wind these idiots up?"
BLAMING ANN FOR ANYTHING THE BLOGGERS SAY IS ABOUT AS SILLY AS BLAMING SEPTICS FOR OUR NITRATES (MORRO BAY HAS MORE WITH A SEWER!)
WHO'S CALLING WHO AN IDIOT?
DON'T PANIC OH SILLY SISTER! YOU'RE WAY OFF AND WAY OUT THERE!
"Take every single Dreamer and Taxpayers Watch member on a bus ride to Mexico, dig some shallow graves, and tell them to get on their knees and pray that God will forgive them in the end."
Aren't you a sweet obstructionist. Been tipping a few back all morning?
TO ANON ABOVE,
HAVE YOU READ THE TRIB'S BLOG? OF COURSE YOU HAVE.
WHY DON'T YOU GO BACK TO THE TRIB BLOG WHERE YOU BELONG?
WRITE ABOUT THE SO-CALLED OBSTRUCTIONISTS THERE AND HOW YOU WANT THIS CSD BOARD IN JAIL OR HOW YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE STROKES AND DIE...ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU WRITE?
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS SCAREY BECAUSE YOU ARE PAID HERE BY THE COUNTY TO PROMOTE A VOTE THAT WILL FORCE MANY NICE FAMILIES AND SENIORS OUT OF THE HOMES THEY LOVE, IT'S PRETTY EVIL.
GO AWAY!
"Take every single Dreamer and Taxpayers Watch member on a bus ride to Mexico, dig some shallow graves, and tell them to get on their knees and pray that God will forgive them in the end."
Aren't you real proud of what you wrote?
"To All Commentors: Let me repeat. EVERYTHING in this comment section needs to be taken with about 800 lbs of salt.(And often anti-naseua pills) Everyone posting here is an Anonymice. PHONY, SINCERE, LYING, TRUTHFUL, ONE PERSON, TWELVE PEOPLE? ALL ANNONYMICE."
There should be a correction.
EVERYTHING, especially Ann's postings AND this comment section needs to be taken with about 800 lbs of salt.
Oh dear, what have we here?
"EVERYTHING, especially Ann's postings AND this comment section needs to be taken with about 800 lbs of salt.
What you forgot to add to your disclaimer for this turkey is that mental illness is contagious. Obviously she's a carrier.
People paid by the county to blog on your site is sad evidence why it is so important to vote against the 218 and show the county that blackmail is no substitute for a straight-up, honest 218.
"Take every single Dreamer and Taxpayers Watch member on a bus ride to Mexico, dig some shallow graves, and tell them to get on their knees and pray that God will forgive them in the end."
Beautfully penned... Brought a tear to my eye... Sheer poetry... At least someone has an affordable plan around here to help Los Osos.
Hell, it's more of a plan than the CSD came up with! Viva L'Revolution
"Take every single Dreamer and Taxpayers Watch member on a bus ride to Mexico, dig some shallow graves, and tell them to get on their knees and pray that God will forgive them in the end."
Having roots in Mexico, that is one of the most disgusting semi-racist comments I've heard on this blog. This is exactly why I didn't support the recall and won't support the continued actions of these hijackers. I made my choice from watching and listening to the meetings and now seeing the fall out from the lies.
*** Sewer or Die ***
*** "Take every single Dreamer and Taxpayers Watch member on a bus ride to Mexico, dig some shallow graves, and tell them to get on their knees and pray that God will forgive them in the end." ***
"Take every single Dreamer and Taxpayers Watch member on a bus ride to Mexico, dig some shallow graves, and tell them to get on their knees and pray that God will forgive them in the end."
What bothers me here is that this tale is very much like the end of "The Sopranos" -- very inconclusive. What really did happen on the last episode of "The Sopranos"? Were they wiped out? Did they live? Will there be a movie? They just cut to black.
Whatever the writer in italics above had in mind, he left out the ending, cut to black. I hate when they leave what happened up to the viewer! We may never know...
What do you think happened to the Dreamers and Taxpayers Watch in the story above, kidnapped by Obstructionists, taken on a bus to Mexico and forced to dig shallow graves...?
Let's vote for our favorite ending. Here are the choices for alternate ending:
(1) The Dreamers and Taxpayers Watch are executed by an overdose of laughing gas, after being forced to eat donuts from Carlock's while reading a book from Volumes of Pleasure and watching slow motion re-runs of recent CSD meetings.
(2) The Dreamers and Taxpayers Watch are buried alive, but since most are lower than earthworms anyway, they survive by breathing dirt and escape.
(3) Pavvo, Noel, Gibson, Jerry, Jeffrey and Sam "The Sham" Blakeslee arrive just in the nick of time by helicopter, kill the Obstructionists, and the Dreamers, Taxpayers Watch -- and the County Gang return home heroes and build a monument to themselves at Tri-W that can be seen and whiffed from every corner of town.
What do you think? Please vote your favorite ending here -- or make up one of your own!
Will it be thumbs up... or thumbs down on the Dreamers, Taxpayers Watch, Richie Rich Blakeslee & the County Gang????
Their fate lies in YOUR hands.
The county has lied big time:
1) Lied about the 218 and said everyone would pay either special or general benefits, but then changed their mind and said people outside the PZ could pay if they wanted to.
2) Said the Tri-W was on the table because they were afraid of lawsuits, since when has that stopped anyone? There is always a threat of a lawsuit.
3) Said they were picking TAC members from the community, but they only picked Tri-W supporters, including Dan Berman who's paid by the RWQCB--All Tri-W people except Karen.
4) Said there was grant money, knowing there would be NO grant money unless the SRF was paid back first.
5) Said they hired Corollo to study alternatives, yet knows Corollo has NO expertise in alternatives ONLY gravity.
6) Wrote the RWQCB about CDO's when they had already been assured, along with Sam Blakeslee, by the RWQCB that as soon as the project started the CDO's would go away.
7) Lied on the Fine Screening pumping up the Step/Steg figures and making gravity look reasonable.
8) Said from the beginning that they would involve and inform the community through the process, yet refused to tape and air TAC and "after hours" meetings (they may now because maybe their legal told them to.)
to be continued...
I guess you'll be continuing it somewhere else, since I greatly expect the 218 to pass which will mean, of course, you'll be moving because you'll be so mad or....you don't have enough money to pay for a sewer. Either way, adios obstrucionist loser. We'll all be more than happy to rid this community of your kind.
You say anon at 6:17: "We'll all be more than happy to rid this community of your kind."
ISN'T THIS WHAT YOUR SEWER SCHEME IS ALL ABOUT? CLEAR OUT THE WORKING CLASS TO MAKE WAY FOR THE DEVELOPERS TO DEVELOP? IT'S ALL ABOUT THE LAND AND NOT THE WATER.
WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND AND IT'S IMMORAL TO "RID" THE COMMUNITY LIKE YOU WANT TO. WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO TRY TO?
YOU GOT IT FINALLY, YOU IDIOT!
YUP, ALL OF US PROPERTY TAXPAYING MILLIONAIRE'S IN LOS OSOS WANT ALL YOU WELFARE OBSTRUCTIONISTS TO GET OUT OF OUR TOWN SO WE CAN ENJOY SUNSETS WITHOUT SMELLING YOUR UN-MANAGED SEPTIC TANKS.
NOW HITCH UP YOUR CARPET BAG AND CRAWL ON BACK TO ORANGE COUNTY OR WHAT EVER ROCK YOU SLITHERED OUT FROM UNDER!
AT LEAST WE DIDN'T THREATEN TO DRAG YOUR SORRY ASS DOWN TO MEXICO.
There is no need to threaten the obstructionists. They are so afraid of the high costs they created, that they are bailing out on their own. They have alienated their neighbors with their hysterics and lies, that their circle of friends is growing smaller as the lies are exposed. Now they appear to be stepping up the retoric and threats against the County, the RWQCB, the past Boards and Blakeslee again. Guess desperate thugs do seek desperate measures!
TO THE VERY PLEASANT ANONS ABOVE,
Obviously you have NO idea who you are talking to. There are many people with money and wisdom who believe that a sustainable project is the way to go and prefer an out of town site.
You love to think only a few renters want a better project, but there are many of us who own numerous properties that feel the same as I do.
Developers can develop with Step/Steg or clusters, it doesn't have to be an out-dated big ugly monster. If you want the LA and SF wealthy to come here, you better build a better sewer.
You want to push out working families and seniors for their land and it's immoral to do what you want to do. I still believe what goes around comes around, right back at you.
Obviously YOU do not know WHO you are talking to either. My family has been living in San Luis and Los Osos for over 65 years, so don't give me any crap about not caring for working families or seniors, I'm helping in taking care of mine!
You evidently don't know water treatment technology or the politics of creating major public works projects. You sound like someone who has believed the lies from Lisa and Julie to the point that you think they know more than the State and the County. There are very good reasons the project was taken from this failed local government. I used to believe in local government, but from the extremists who attacked the past CSD Boards, I've come to realize that we never should have created the CSD. It's been a disaster with Schicker and Tacker and their fellow activists. The community had a project and lost it because we weren't capable of manageing it wisely.
You might be surprised to find there are a great meany of us who really don't give a damn any longer what or where the sewer goes, but we sure as hell are going to fight those who wring their hands and cry about the RWQCB not playing fair or the County not removing Tri-W or not giving some price for a project or any of the other delaying tactics currently being voiced.
Back to you, remember, I was taught that I have a right to voice my opinion also! I heard that over and over by Lisa at more CSD meetings than I care to count.
Folks, I will guarantee there is only one, maybe 2 people who have fashioned a rather boring and ignorant campaign to come onto this blog and 1)spin conspiracy stories about the county and the 218 2) threaten those who believe in the county process with apocolypse for Los Osos and spew wild specualtion with no facts whatsoever to support their claims 3) label those who support the county process as anti-renters; or anti-neighbors; or wealthy developers, being paid by the county to blog, being paid by developers to blog, etc, etc etc. Your guess is as good as mine who they could be, and really, if you watch the CSD meetings it could be any number of their supporters, but what difference does it make. I for one have found them comedic and entertaining, and though, unlike them, I don't wish for them to be killed and buried in a mass grave in Mexico (oh what wonderful folk these obstructionists are!!!), I can only hope all we property owners support the county process, support the 218 vote, and tell these people once and for all we we no longer be hijacked by their ignorant agendas. Stand united Los Osos, for a better tomorrow.
The blogger above obviously works for the county and should identify herself before she goes on the blogs every day to endorse the Proposition 218 vote. The attorneys I know have said this is quite illegal, but they also belive the county is stupid enough to try endorsing the vote. We're watching.
Identify YOURSELF if you want to play fair, otherwise you are just the Conspiracy Boy who we all are laughing at! HaHaHaHaHa
I sure hope our less than brilliant CSD is not funding a lawyer for your defense!
May love and laughter light your days,
and warm your heart and home.
May good and faithful friends be yours,
wherever you may roam.
May peace and plenty bless your world
with joy that long endures.
May all life's passing seasons
bring the best to you and yours!
Post a Comment