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Sunday, February 19, 2006

Gone Missing

A Los Ososian made a comment at the last CSD meeting that got me to thinking. He wondered aloud at public comment Where are the Dissolvers and Dreamers and anti-Recallers and pro Tri-W Sewer folk? Why don’t they come to the public CSD meetings? Where’s their public input into this community? Instead of suing the community, why don’t recalled CSD Boardmembers Stan Gustafson and Gordon Hensley come to a public meeting and explain in public their reasons for doing what they are doing? Where are the people who signed the Dissolution Petitions? Why don’t they come to a public meeting and explain in public why they think dissolving the CSD will allay their fears and solve their concerns. And so forth.

And I thought later, He’s right. Where IS everybody? Oh, sure, for a while, a few folks showed up for public comment to announce they were passing petitions to dissolve the CSD. And sure, a few folks would get up a public comment period to denounce the newly elected CSD as wrongheaded evil spawns of Hell. Probably the longest running Denouncer was Joyce Albright (part of Taxpayers’ Watch, the group suing the CSD and supporting (behind?) the Dissolution Group). Like clockwork, she could be counted on to read her carefully polished little masterpieces of purest vitriol into the record in a lady-like voice of sweet reasonableness. The effect was always startlingly funny, like seeing Queen Elizabeth in one of her flowery summer hats swearing like a sailor at a bunch of bureaucrats in her Oxonian plumy U.C. voice. Joyce’s efforts were always a delightful startlement. But I haven’t seen her at meetings recently so maybe even she’s stopped her performances. And the CSD meetings have now returned to civil quietude again. Oh darn.

Instead, it appears that what we have is what CSD Chairperson referred to as a Shadow Government – people unwilling to engage in the public marketplace of ideas, the public forum, the public process. Instead, they are quietly, privately, working to destroy the very system of governance that many of them both helped create and fully supported until that system didn’t give them what they wanted. Then, instead of engaging publicly and politically – another recall, running a slate of “pro-county” candidates for November’s upcoming election, starting initiatives to repeal Measure B, for example, or an initiative to separate the CSD’s control over Sewers in order to return that function to the county, and so forth – their response is to smash down the house entirely.

What’s also of interest is that they decided to bring down the house only weeks after the recall election. Why that’s interesting is that the recall supporters remained fully engaged in the Loyal Opposition process for years – Lord, who can forget the years of their public engagement at meetings, public debate during public comment time? They ran alternative candidates and won seats and finally they engaged in the system via the recall and initiative process. At no time did the Recallers ever move to destroy Home Rule, even though they, like the Dissolvers, felt that Home Rule was running amok.

Which means, of course, that the Dissolvers are, at heart, anti-democratic. They do not trust the process of democracy. And when The Public makes decisions with which they disagree, then The Public must be removed from the process. And one way to do that quickly is to shut down the process entirely.

To folks who view themselves as the rightful heirs of governance, the notion that governmental power derives from the people, is a profoundly disturbing notion. The unwashed, unhorsed, and unbooted simply cannot be allowed to operate the reins of government.

There is a great deal of irony at work here for the Dissolvers. Insofar as their flyer falsely conflates eliminating the threat of the Cease & Desist Orders with dissolution and rejoining the county, the public who believed that conflation were profoundly misled. Everyone who signed the petition thinking that was the case needs to view the tape of the Feb. 15th. Informational meeting of the Regional Water Quality Control Board’s CDO Prosecution Staff. The question was asked directly and answered directly:

Does the dissolution of the CSD have any effect on the CDOs? NO.
Does the County have a project or any plans for a project? NO, we have no knowledge of any project or plans the county has.

Well, it’s not the first time the public’s been lied to by slick techniques mastered by Madison Avenue. But for even more irony, it’s hard to beat the fact that the CSD recently was granted Designated Status, which means they will be legally entering this CDO hearing as an active, informed, knowledgeable participant – a mother hen able to spread her governmental wings to act both as point man (point chicken?) and sheltering cover for her 45 following little chicks.

By signing the dissolution petitions, the other 4,500 sitting ducks (everyone else in town, all of us in the prohibition zone fully in the cross hairs of the RWQCB) are attempting to remove the only protection they have in order to flee into the arms of an indifferent County who not only doesn’t want it’s red-haired stepchild, but has never shown any history of caring what happens to any of us out here.

Funny, no?

61 comments:

Anonymous said...

Why is applying the existing government regulations on dissolution any different that applying regulations on recall and initiatives? Both require similar numbers of signers of registered voters. I submit this is the very democracy you talk about in this piece.

As for the CDO's, it seems like a reasonable conclusion that the regional water board will now take into account your point on fairness and could suspend the pumping until all of us on online with CDO's. You and today's Tribune make a similar point. As they said in the meeting of the 15th, this is a new process that takes some ironing out.

A reasonable man/woman might conclude that there is no need for CDO's when a project is actually under construction again, ergo the dissolution!

Ironically, your piece and the Tribune's are no doubt already in their database and will be acted on. They need to send you a thank note!

Keep digging as behind your version of Madison avenue spin, (sort of a Mark Twain style) are valid points to be considered.

Keep up the good work!

Anonymous said...

Libra,

well, "dissolution" eliminates the voice of the citizens of Los Osos from the process and that's the goal.... answer the question "why don't dreamers just run candidate's in November instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water." You don't ask this question cause you know what the answer is......they've lost two elections in a row and they will lose again because the community does not support their position......so your answer....take down our government entirely.......nice try the people of los osos are way too smart for your BS spin.....and guess what? our new CSD wants worse than anybody a wastewater project for our community? You think the county cares about this more than the people who live here? You think the County wants this back? HAA!! I guess you're still dreaming. The dissolution will never get past the hearing process...I don't care how many signatures they get....they are just generating bad sour grapes publicity for our newly elected governmemt which is actually working against a wastewater project for our town. So, your conclusion the the ony way to get a project is thru dissolution is just more BS spin. The quickest way to a project is to come together as a community and let this board help us build a project. This is exactly what "Taxpayer Watch" and the dreamers are working against. They are working against the citizens of this community and a wastewater project for our town. I just don't get it. Are the kickbacks from the overbid contractors on the TRI-W project still pending?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, I respect your beliefs but why are you so afraid of another election of the people to decide if it wants a CSD? LAFCO can decide many different alternatives, one of which is to mandate an election by the registered voters to make this decision. Is this not democratic?

As to your question of running candidates, who wants to be abused by those that don't agree with them? Just read the tone of your blog, multiple (BS's), references to kickbacks, etc. It is easy to assert many things as long as no substantive evidence is required. Civility, and give and take seem to be a lost art!

You are no doubt correct that the county doesn't want the problem either but there may be no choice. Even with no dissolution, the likelyhood of available funding, the weight of CDO's, the many litigations and the looming 2010 deadline would seem to work against a settlement that most would accept.

The very thing that the tone of your blog presents is a perception that all of this sewer war is somehow based on money, those that have some and those that don't. If this is truely the situation, then which side would you bet on as an outside observor?

Wouldn't it be better to offer up all sites (including TRI-W) and let the chips fall where they may, if there is even enough time? California is something like the five largest economy in the world, so if it truely is a matter of money.... you fill in the blanks!

It would be productive to discuss more facts and less beliefs. Maybe this blog is a means to reach a beter level of understanding. I was tempted to write something like the tone of Ann's and your's in rebutal but then I would be doing the same as what I am speaking against.

It would be interesting to read some messages that had no spin and expressed no emotion for or against either side but provided facts and their source!

Anonymous said...

I get it...so what you're saying is the democratic thing to do is destroy our democracy.....good luck selling that one. I wonder why you keep losing elections?

Ron said...

"To folks who view themselves as the rightful heirs of governance, the notion that governmental power derives from the people, is a profoundly disturbing notion.

Remember a few months back when the Water Board said the CSD could keep its SRF loan if they ignored Measure B, and went against the very platform that got all five board members elected? Ann had a great line. Something like, "While they're at it, why don't they just make Los Osos reinstall the three recalled board members as well?"

Hilarious.

In 1997, when the backers of failed ballot measures E-97 and D-97 (translated: current County Parks Commission chairperson, Pandora Nash-Karner) realized they would never get funding for their public recreation dreams in Los Osos through the ballot box, they ignored Democracy, did a taxpayer end-around, and, as CSD Board members, tucked the cost of their park into the sewer project, to disastrous consequences, as we all know now.

When those same backers of Measure E-97 and D-97/CSD Board members couldn't justify their park to the Coastal Commission, they lied to them, and said there was a "strongly held community value" for a park in the sewer plant, further eroding Democracy in Los Osos, and adding to said disastrous consequences.

Now, those same backers of Measure E-97 and D-97 -- some, former Board members -- are attempting another Democracy sleight-of-hand. As a fan of the U.S. Constitution, that makes me sick.

It's my guess that Stan Gustafson, a former Marine, has removed all the mirrors from his home.

Last year, when I called what's been happening in Los Osos, "a shameful rape of Democracy," I kind of regretted that line... thought it was a bit strong. I don't regret it anymore.

Anonymous said...

Ron Crawford, someday when this is all over, I 'm going to buy you a beer. you da man.

Anonymous said...

"What’s also of interest is that they decided to bring down the house only weeks after the recall election. Why that’s interesting is that the recall supporters remained fully engaged in the Loyal Opposition process for years – Lord, who can forget the years of their public engagement at meetings, public debate during public comment time? They ran alternative candidates and won seats and finally they engaged in the system via the recall and initiative process. At no time did the Recallers ever move to destroy Home Rule, even though they, like the Dissolvers, felt that Home Rule was running amok."
Word. Ann, you are invited for that beer too.

Anonymous said...

I'll chip in for the beer!

Anonymous said...

Libra,

You are ill informed.

The dissolvers are not asking for an election to destroy the CSD... they want LAFCO to use their powers to dissolve WITHOUT AN ELECTION. If LAFCO does so, it becomes the burden of the citizens of Los Osos to force an election.

That process requires a petition with 25% of the registered voters on Los Osos just to have an election.

Let's do some math...

There are roughly 10,000 registered voters in Los Osos.

We needed 20% to sign the recall petition in order to have an election... thats 2,000 signatures.

The Dissolvers only need 10% to sign their petition for LAFCO to have the opportunity to dissolve WITHOUT and election... thats only 1,000 signatures.

To override LAFCO we need 25% just to have an election... that 2,500 signatures.

Hardly seems fair to me.

But the most important point here is that the Dissolvers DO NOT WANT AN ELECTION... they want LAFCO to dissolve simply based on the petitions... the "10% petitions".

And I can't wait to see the lies and deception that get presented at the LAFCO meeting by the dissolvers...

You see... they have to convice LAFCO that they can actually get a sewer built better, faster, and cheaper than the current CSD.

We all saw how that went last time... its scary to think that anyone will believe them again.

Yep, it's gonna be some magic show. Be sure to mark your calendars... and don't forget your boots and shovel... you will need to dig yourself out when it's all over... and it will be deep.

Anonymous said...

Oh Boy,

More election signature voodoo. It takes 20% for recall, 10% to start dissolution, 105 for an intiative - ALL of which have been used in the legally available democratic process. It's ALL democracy. It was also democratic to start construction, because it was legal (we're not the only agency where outgoing representatives have passed what they, as duly elected officials, have felt was the best course of action).

But only in Los Osos do people create conspiracies out of it and compound the problem. Just like the Solutions Group did, just like the recall crowd has done.

This is what is known as compounding disagreeable decisions by making them worse. Even worse, is wrapping your arguments about them in political blather like Ann and Ron do. The decisions before the community have never had anything to do with democracy. We live in a democracy, and that has not changed. They have to do with making good decisions.

Ann's post is a joke. It's a debating society argument she uses. 'Gosh, since somebody didn't come to a meeting where there is usually no comments related to actual business, it means they're not credible, because some recall yahoo asked such a great question!' Nice going Ann, fuel the debating society mentality that is Los Osos.

Only in Ann's democracy does showing up at the Los Osos CSD carnival give one standing.

As for Ron, maybe if the Grand Jury would haul someone in for questioning, he'd finally feel vindicated. But so what, it won't stop a cease and desist order, and it won't stop pollution, and it won't make the cost go down.

Keep paying the lawyers y'all - enjoy it as y'all keep doing nothing and paying for it. The circus goes on.

As to LAFCO, who knows what they'll do. The evidence that the LOCSD can complete a project is pretty thin. If there is any doubt, go and review the ACL hearing transcripts from the CSD's own lawyers - they basically laid as much.

Anonymous said...

dear public-doesn'tworks,

ok, so, starting a project 20 days before an election that would shut down the project..regardless if it was democratic or legal....i guess you think that was making a good decision......going to the SWRCB and asing them for 50 million more dollars before you put the project out to bid(and guess what, the only bidder came in about 50m over our engineers estimate for the project hmmmmmm).....i guess you think that was a smart decision......i guess moving forward on the project meeting after meeting when public comment at meeting was 5-6-7 to one against the project....moving forward with the project when you, as an elected official, were placed on a recall ballot because the community didn't support the project and yes, starting the project 3 weeks before a election of the people who did not support the project....i guess you think that was a good decision......the people who made these idiotic decisions are the same people who are supporting the dissolution.....they can't win an election. the people of Los Osos do not support them....so their answer....eliminate the people of Los Osos from the process. What Government official(LAFCO) in their right mind would support the dissolution of a local Government? It would be political suicide...if this does go back to the county. the county will tack on administrative fees in addition to service fees not only for any wastewater project but also for fire service, and water service......ALL of these services will be more expensive.....the quickest and least expensive route to a soultion is for our community to unite, support our CSD, and let them help us build a sewer. there is no reason not to get together as a community and support our local government.....unless of course you're one of the elite few that are waiting for that pending kickback from the overbid contractors........

Anonymous said...

I know about the 25% requirement but since the CSD5 have such strong community support this will be no problem.

Because we are a democracy, LAFCO is likely to call for an election if for no other reason than it takes them off the hook.

Then your supporters will get the majority votes and life goes on with more of Ann's Huckleberry Finn tales and Ron, out there in Santa Margarita, continuing to flesh out his conspiracy theories. (I think Elvis was spotted in the campground near there).

If the out-of-towners can muster 4500-4800 votes in their favor to win, then Rove will likely have a place for your campaign manager and all the rest of us will have to eat crow. (except me, as I am vegetarian)

Anonymous said...

Latest Anonymous,

Where is my kickback you promised me if I wrote the contractors and told them "watch your back"? Is there no honor among us elite few?

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon,

I didn't say the decisions the former board made were the best, OK. They took a risk with two of their decisions they didn't have to, and the subsequent rash decisions of the new board compounded the problem.

But they were decisions made to avoid the very scenario property owners have to deal with today. That is an agency with no project and property owners under individual enforcement action.

If you want to look at the absolute worst decision ever made, look no further than the new board. Stopping a project without any General Manager, any staff report, any discussion of the prohitition zone consequences, and any sound legal reading of Measure B. Because that's exactly what this new board did the SECOND they took office.

Yeah, I'm waiting for those kickbacks baby - hang on a sec., I got the CEO of Barnard on the other line. Hey, go read some more Kennedy assination novels and get back to me. Maybe it was Hensley and Liddy behind the grassy knoll!

There's a lot of reasons to have local control, but having a perpetual lawyer fee-paying service isn't one of them.

Keep up with the Dreamer blather, conspiracy theory, founding father crud, blah, blah, blah. That's the reason people are probably signing, if you haven't gotten it through your skull yet. People don't give a rat's ass if the sewer is at Tri-W, Andre, or Calcutta. But it's hard to trust a CSD where the President goes through an ACL hearing and doesn't say one thing of substance to help the property owners.

Anonymous said...

dear liebreath i mean libra,

i get it that you want to dissolve the CSD. Other than being pissed off because the community doesn't support your point of view, I'm just not sure why.....If the community supported your point of view you'd run candidates in November but we don't support you do we....I'm sure if it comes to it we'll get the 25% and win again no problem .....so, how do you like your crow? baked or fried?

Anonymous said...

"founding father crud"...
You are one sick shit.

Anonymous said...

One more thing, any Director that makes a decision based on public comment at CSD meetings has no business being a Director.

Public comment is fine, but for the last 3 years public comment has been more about political grandstanding that anything of much substance.

20 questions is no way to form public policy.

Can you imagine if some opposition group had spent $20-$25k to fund a reviewable alternate project plan to present to the RWQCB and Coastal instead of legal wrangling??? Then maybe there could have been a discussion of substance. After all, they kept saying they had a plan.

Anonymous said...

public doesn'tworks,

if the former CSD board doesnt start the project before the election the current CSD board doesn't have to stop it.....by the way, incase you didn't know.....this is how our democracy works in America ....the job of an elected official is to REPRESENT the people who elected them into office. every member of your CSD ran against the TRI-W project. IT WAS THEIR JOB TO STOP THE PROJECT!!!!!!!!!!! We all know and get why you want to dissolve our elected local Government that represents the PEOPLE of Los Osos. It's because the people don't support your project and you want to remove them from the process....what makes you think we will let you do this?......Another order of crow, coming right up.........

Anonymous said...

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW PUBLIC DOESN'TWORKS?........the CSD Directors are not basing their decisions on public comment.....their representing the People who elected them into office......

Anonymous said...

I'm sick? Look in the mirror dude, and read your constitution.

I'm not the one out there twisting and perverting the constitution to imply things about democracy and representative government that aren't there.

By the way, the founding fathers put aside resolving slavery in order to get the country going. I guess that makes Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, Madison, Adams, and Franklin a bunch of sick racists.

By the way, the founding fathers made damn sure that property rights were protected, because they had the foresight to see that it would create wealth and opportunity for all citizens.

Oh, but I forget, it's all about your rights, you're a victom, it's not your fault, blah, blah, blah.

Anonymous said...

Why did you say 'your' project. It certainly wasn't my project.

You're right, if the previous board doesn't start the project, the new board doesn't have to stop it. But they did start the project, so the new board had a choice.

I guess you're right. It was their job to stop the project, NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT COSTS.

Where do get I want to dissolve the district? I really could care less at this point if the district is dissolved or not, the PEOPLE of Los Osos have made their beds over and over and have to live with it. If they want to go down swinging and paying off a bunch of lawyers and getting nothing done, far be it from me to stop them.

Keep it up, keep prattling on with your Dreamer blather, make up some new slogans, bash the state, bash the county, bash whomever, bash me, hopefully it lets you get off some steam and makes you feel better. Hey, maybe you'll be first in line to support a 218 vote and lien your house for another pig 'n' a poke, that gets strung out by lawsuits by litigants old and new.

Anonymous said...

Woah! Passionate exchange I must say! And this is what it boils down to does it not...the people have spoken...Tri-W is dead...let science guide us as to what to do next. Science. Not developers, dreamers, move-the-sewers, or the GD RWQCB. Now, some say, well, we're polluting so we must do whatever they say! The Water Gods have spoken! We might be polluting but GD it we do not have to do whatever they say. Let's show them the alternatives. There are plenty out there...hello? Just because the old board never brought them up doesn't mean they don't exist or that other communities don't put in different solutions that work. This board is allowing us alternatives. They are allowing us a voice. Why do others of you want to squelch it?

Anonymous said...

dreamer/watcher/dissolver
public doesn'tworks
posted this.......


"founding father crud"...

This illustrates exactly how the dreamers/watchers/dissolvers feel about our "founding fathers" and American Democracy......this is why they want to dissolve your local Government....they can't stand a system of government that will not allow an elite few to rule...it's not about my rights as an individual, it's about the rights of the community as a whole who elected our CSD to represent us in local government........someday after the dissolution fails and they've lost 5 or 6 or 8 elections in a row....after they've eaten more crow than anybody could possibly eat.....maybe they will join us, their fellow neighbors and citizens of Los Osos and our local Government to work towards a wastewater solution........until then, if you guys need help hunting crow, i heard Dick Cheney is a pretty good shot. Perhap you guys could invite him to join you on one of your crow hunting trips........

Anonymous said...

Anonymous (at least the last one) that is a great comment, except for one problem.

You have to work with the waterboards, and you should want to. That's reality. Do you really want to spend $1,000,000 by the time all is said and done on appeals to give Biggs something to crow about to her partners, and end up with zilch to show for it??

That's the problem with the CSD right now, they're little more than a legal subsidiary. They need to give the waterboard something concrete. It's like the Chinese way of doing busines - let 'em save face.

Anonymous said...

There you go anon (the one that seems to have trouble with comprehension but knows what to do with slogan), doing what you do best. Twist it, turn it, make it sound like anything you want.

You are the self annointed expert in democracy.

That's right, half the town lines up to sign Al Barrow's initiative without bothering to read or understand it. Half the town lines up to sign a dissolution petition without bothering to read or understand it.

I'm sure that's what the founding fathers had in mind!

Bring it on. Tell me some more of your slogans, put another moniker on me - you do that pretty well.

Anonymous said...

Ah Publikverks, didums blow a widdle gasket. Shouts to the new anons.
property rights are exactly what this is about.
No the founding fathers were not all racists, but they were free, mostly rich white men. They were of their day.
Democracy is also Grassroots. Chavez, Hoffa, King, Carter, Jarvis. All had their warts, but they were also great.
The Recall movement was Grassroots.
This LOCSD board is Grassroots.
The Recalled masqaraded as grassroots.
People have died all over this world because of that "founding father crud." Thousands of America's best citizens have died, ARE DYING RIGHT NOW TO PROTECT THAT FOUNDING FATHER CRUD. You loved the sound of Stan's gavel didn't you?? Authoritarian actions clothed in democratic process. You loved it when they started cutting the trees, didn't you?
You wanted to piss some folks off personal like, I think you just did a good job of it.

Ladies and Gentlemen, presenting Publikverks, gentle voice of the dissollution movement...

Mike Green said...

Yes! Let them save face!
Wouldn't want to bruise their little egos would we?
Politicians. Feh!

Anonymous said...

Public Works, I agree with you on the letting off steam comment. These blog messages were almost getting to be discussional with some exchanges of beliefs (haven't seen many "facts" though) when some non-elitist just couldn't stand that others might not agree with their opinions. This is sort of the blog version of public comment at a CSD meeting, if you don't agree then get loud and snarl. I guess Blesky and Barrow are your role models!

Anonymous said...

I'm not the one comparing myself to Ghandi. I'm not the one that started making grandiose comparisons of myself to MLK.

NO ONE in the recall movement comes close. NO ONE in the recall movement remotely compares to a founding father. A town that collectively has failed to fix a problem over 20 years has NO comparison to the founding fathers or people that had their chuches fire-bombed and brothers hung from trees.

BUT some you make yourselves out to be the 2nd coming of founding fathers. That's what I meant, but in the style of Los Osos, you twist it around for your own self-serving crud. Go ahead.

You want to liken yourself to King, Jefferson, - go ahead - indulge yourself - hey whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

Hey, I think you left out the comparison to Attila, Ghenghis Khan, Darth Vador, c'mon there's a few more to throw in there. Hey, man, compare me to Benedict Arnold, yeah man, that'll work.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

It sucks doesn't it? It's the old saying, you can kill more flies with honey and sugar, than you can with vinegar.

You know. It's amazing. People really don't get it through their noggin that the waterboard WANTS a way out to get the CSD into compliance. The CSD hasn't thrown them a single bone for wiggle room.

But really, aren't debates about the founding fathers recently discovered Los Osos Bill of Rights (Article XXXVIII) penned by Jefferson's mistress more interesting??

Mike Green said...

Dear publickworks, I seem to remember quite a few bones thrown to them. Go ask Sam Blakesly.

As for this chaotic screaming match I have only one thing to say

Kumbaya

Anonymous said...

Hey, new film coming out.

'Los Osos Burning' starring PublicWorks as the evil Southern transplanted and Southern-accented plant operater forcing a sludge making, pipe leaking, energy consuming, sewage spilling, uncontrollable odor generating wastewater plant upon a community.

Activists unmask PublicWorks for the evil incarnate she/he is (the film is vague about the gender). They record videos as PublicWorks puts green painted stripes on doors of residents who refuse to hook up to the plant. Piles of money in suitcases from contractors are discovered.

But nothing is worse than the discovery of a copy of the Declaration of Indepedance on PublicWorks desk that has 'We the People crossed out' and replace with the CCRWQCB.

Anonymous said...

I just think you lost a lot of debates back in high school.
I didn't say anyone here in osos was a founding father or close to it.

I said they were grassroots & that Grassroots are part of democracy.
I do think the current board is very brave and dedicated. Respect them for that.
I suspect that you have no idea what you are talking about when you cynically throw out images a of church burnings and lynchings, getting all self rightous behind your conflations and spin.
Scarbourough country your kinda show izzums tizzy? your suggested further personality comparisons don't quite do it for me. I think my play on your moniker: Publikwerks is much more apt, conveys the small ugly cog in the big ugly machinen much better. Sqweeky ugly little cog...
Oh... I see your Barrow and raise you an Albright and a Paradies.
Blesky is a Bro and welcome in my home.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

No bones about that. You'd think the CSD would revisit the compromise as an option? - naaah, let's not pursue something the community could agree upon.

I wonder if a couple of anons put themselves to sleep at night playing Supertramp - you know, 'Dreamer, you're nothing but a Dreamer....'

Beats counting sheep.

Anonymous said...

public "Benedict Arnold" doesn'tworks.....

you put the "founding father crud" moniker monkey on your own back with your statement and your dissolution movement....the problem with the waterboard is that they are acting politically and not scientifically.......all you have to do is watch their own feb 15th workshop on the C&D orders to see how lost and clueless they are....their own experts telling them that pumping every 2 months is not good......when Matt Thompson, rwqcb staffer heading up the show, was asked about the "science" of pumping every 2 months, he said "there is none. It's unheard of"....tell it to the Judge please Matt.....when asked how pumping 36 million of gallons of water out of our aquifer, that's already in overdraft, and dumping it in santa maria and/or bakersfield would affect our water supply problem, Matt said "We are not in the water suppy business. We are in the water quality business".....Good answer Matt. clean our water by stealing it and dumping it in santa maria...good answer, fix our water quality by fucking up our water supply.......i can't wait to get these guys into court...... these C&D orders are the best thing that ever could of happend. they are uniting our community and they are exposing the waterboard's actions as political actions and not scientific actions to conserve or clean and advance our community towards a wastewater solution.......by they way, incase you've missed the last few meetings, our(your) CSD is working with the rwqcb on a better solution......the CSD that you want to dissolve........

Anonymous said...

Dogpatch, nice - more monikers, more names, more labels, keep 'em coming.

Yeah, PublikWerks ist sehr schlect. ArbeitWerkenMann ist der Hund. Er ist kleiner Hund. Er traumt, und er arbeitet fur die WasserMenschen.

Hey, here's an opportunity Dogpatch to shed some light on the debate. What are three good reasons to dissolve the CSD? What are three bad reasons to dissolve the CSD?

Anonymous said...

Wow, now it's my dissolution movement as well! That'll teach me to post to the blog!

Guess I should sign the petition now, since the judge and jury has already convicted!

Anonymous said...

Dissolve the publicworks,

can you think of three good reasons why we should dissolve the United States Senate or the U.S. House of Representatives.....what the hell give me one good reason for dissolving the U.S. Congress.....dissolvepublic i heard your old buddy Bruce bought a new home in France.....maybe he'll let you stay there......he's tied up busy right now trying to fuck up Nipomo.

Shark Inlet said...

Oh, can I play? It seems like I am arriving at the playgroup late today. Mommy made me go do a ballet this afternoon and than I had to do a chore ... stupid mommy!

Oh my gosh, some of you people are childish. If your wife/husband/mother/boss/neighbor knew what you wrote, would you be proud?

Three good reasons to dissolve the CSD ...
A - We don't have the money to build a plant
B - The CSD board has alienated the property owners who would have to vote an assessment on themselves so the CSD can get the money to build a plant
C - Thus, the County could get the job done quicker.

Three bad reasons to dissolve the CSD ...

1 - it would be fun watching Lisa say "why won't the citizens of Los Osos just work with us"
2 - it would be fun reading Ann write "there is no science behind the dissolution ... I reject their reality"
3 - it would be fun reading Ron write "the park is not 'central communtiy value', let me show you why ... again"

And my addition, Three reasons not to dissolve the CSD

I - We would lose local control over a few things that we actually seem to be able to manage
II - The County could probably care about zero about the location and cost to us
III - What would we do for fun on Tuesday and Thursday nights some three times per month?


Honestly, if the current board tosses something on the table that convinces property owners that they're serious about getting the job done quickly ... perhaps by indicating a willingness to build at TriW if it seems the cheapest and best plan ... they are much more likely to get the 218 vote they need to get the money to do something. If they don't show any willingness to compromise with the majority of this town (by "majority" I mean just that ... most of the people I know who supported the recall are now really pissed off at the current board and are now kicking themselves), they'll be voted out of office in November if a dissolution doesn't go through first.

Shark Inlet said...

publicworks,

I am convinced that if you don't feed the trolls they'll go away sooner.

Certainly they will cause Ann to think twice about allowing "anonymous" postings.

Anonymous said...

Shark,

Hey better to feed the trolls on a blog than at a CSD meeting.

Anon,

Let me get this straight? You are actually comparing the Los Osos CSD to the US Congress? Hey, there's a comedy writing job open.

Boy, those Nipomo idiots. Let's see. They have a wastewater system. They also have a water problem, and are actually doing something NOW about it. Not 5 years from now, not in 2 years - NOW.

Yeah, Bruce is just gonna screw it all up. Hey, they probably should've hired WillDan instead, y'think?

They probably should fire Seitz and hire Biggs. After all, he knows special district law, Biggs is a partner in a big, big law firm - yeahh, that's what they need! I bet she can come up with an ordinance that prevents Nipomo from getting any water anywhere and not doing anything about it for another decade! But hey, she's only a lawyer, and knows squat about engineering.

Anonymous said...

Hey, since we're talking about constitutions, here's someting that should be dissolved.

It's called the State of California Senate. Why do we need two representative bodies of the people? The Senate used to represent the counties until the 1 man, 1 vote US Supreme Court decision in 1962 made that unconstitutional.

Other states have a single legislative body. Think of all the lobbyists that we'd lose, we can get rid of bunch of needless politicians, (including Maldonaldo who can go run for Insurance Commissioner or something like that).

Now that's a petition I'd sign in a second! Dissolve the California Senate, use the savings to fund a Los Osos Sewer (which would also be a sneaky small-print flyer on the petition which people probably won't read - at least in Los Osos). And we could keep the Los Osos CSD.

Anonymous said...

Sharkbait,

"If they don't show any willingness to compromise with the majority of this town (by "majority" I mean just that ... most of the people I know who supported the recall are now really pissed off at the current board and are now kicking themselves), they'll be voted out of office in November if a dissolution doesn't go through first."

How many people did you know that supported the recall? 2? 1? ZERO.
SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN, SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN, SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN, SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN......
......you think we don't know that your dissolution movement is a joke and it's nothing more than your year long campaign run for the November election? I really do have to say and i said this during the entire recall that who ever is running your campaign could you please increase their salary....whoever it is,...is the best thing that ever happened to the recall movement...i never saw three guys try harder to NOT get reelected ......starting the project before the election was genius....and now this....a hopeless dissolution movement.....lot's of our people took a little nap after our election victory last September.....thanks for waking us up early.....i hate to give you guys advise but somebody over there might want to give karl rove a call right about now....but you won't listen to me ....... you'll let whoever is advising you to keep making the same stupid arrogant mistakes that will solidify our base and led us once again to victory in November. Keep up the good work. I heard crow will be on the menu election night at Mare Blu.....

Anonymous said...

Publikverks liked it so much that he broke into the father tongue. I'm sooo impressed.
Maybe you are a memorabilia collector too...
Shark calling somebody a Troll. Dude have they ever looked in the mirror...

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I keep the model of the old Pismo plant on a shelf.

It's next to the model of the Tri-W plant.

The next model of ?? will probably be ready to put up about 2011/2012. At this rate, I'm guessing it will have about 14 lawsuits associated with it, and another 1-2 Coastal Commission hearings that are a joke.

Yeah Dogpatch, thanks for the memories!!

Anonymous said...

yes,

i think publikverks must of been reminiscing on those good old days in the rhineland when the SS and the twisted cross were king
why don't we give the CDO's a star of david and burn a serial number into their arm
zeek hile publik zeek hile.....dissolve the CSD

Shark Inlet said...

Dogpatch,

I apologize for using internet slang. For full information, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll, but a summary is this ... a person who posts inflamatory, sarcastic and disruptive comments in a discussion group ... perhaps trolling for suckers who will take the bait.

Nevertheless, to our anonymous Troll who asked how many people I know who supported the recall. Among my friends, more supported the recall than opposed it ... I can count 12 recall supporters within 20 seconds or so. Another 20 never brought the topic up or refused to let on their point of view. Only 5 opponants. Of the 12 supporters, only two are still supportive of the current board. The rest have all said things like "they said they had a plan ... where is it" and "they told us we wouldn't be fined or lose the loan" when voicing their frustrations.

Considering I've voiced some concerns about the dissolution movement, I find it funny that you refer to it as mine.

Run for election ... hahaha! Good one. I have no desire to put up with the sort of crap that Stan and Gordon and Lisa have had to put up with. At least people who oppose Lisa's point of view are typically polite, but I would expect no such kindness from Linde, Keith and Dave. Nope, not interested. While I appreciate that the matter is serious, I could not be convinced to run.

Perhaps you've not read this blog too long. One of the few things that Ann and I agree on is that the recall probably won because of the timing of the election versus the start of construction.

To me it seems that there are only two ways this board will survive a dissolution movement and election. If they learn to compromise with members of the community who care more about costs than about being right (Ann's Dr. Philism earlier was apt ... would you rather be right or be happy?) they might be able to stick around. The only other way that I can imagine them winning is if the TriWites cannot manage to find three candidates to run. Several who would do a great job come to mind. I just hope that Joe Sparks, Stuart Denker and the like could be convinced to run.

In any case, it's late and I'm about to turn into a pumpkin.

Anonymous said...

C'mon, anyone whose opinion you despise must be more despicable than that! Wow, now you're resorting to 3rd reich references, hey throw in some anti-Christ allusions while you're at it.


Yeah keep it up. If all you can do label and lump people by sick references that YOU, not me, instigated, enjoy yourself. I could care less what you think about me. But YOU are the one that put out these allusions to Nazi referenced crap, not me, and by going down that road, you probably have as much insight into the holocaust as you do as the constitution.

6 million Jews and an even greater number of Gypsys perished because of the type of mindless intolerant words you're propagating in that last post.

Take your anti-semitic crap and stuff it.

Anonymous said...

"Among my friends, more supported the recall than opposed it ...

and i'm suppose to believe this just because you say it's so....
suuuuuuuuuuuuuuure nooooooooooo prrrooooooooblem.

SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN, SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN, SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN, SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN......

well, guess what sharkbait,
Among my friends, more supported the TRI-W project than opposed it ... can count 120 TRI-W supporters within 2 seconds or so. Another 0 never brought the topic up or refused to let on their point of view. None of my friends supported the recall. Of the 120 TRI-W supporters, only ZERO are supporting dissolution of the current board." The 120 have all said things like "i guess since they can't win an election, they want to throw the baby out with the bathwater so we'll all have to pay more for fire service and water service not to mention our wastewater project" and they are saying things like "just because they lost the last two elections and our CSD now consists of 5 representatives who were elected by the people of Los Osos based on a campaign against the TRI-W project why did they have to lobby and plead and beg the water boards to fine and punish their neighbors and fellow citizens of Los Osos"....i've heard of sour grapes but asking the waterboard to fine your neighbors and fellow citizens just because you lost the election"....my friends who supported the TRI-W project aren't happy about these fines either but they aren't blaming the CSD they are blaming "taxpayer watch" who lobbied for these fines....
we have documentation for joe and stewart regard them and their supporters who lobbied for fines against our community......
and
when I said "your campaign" i didn't me "you"....i meant the group that's using the dissolution movement as a platform for their CSD campaign.....the fact the you think i was refering to "you" as an individual shows the you care more about yourself as an individual the the community as a whole...those of us who support our local Government like to think of ourself as a community not as selfish individuals.....this is why the solutions group, i mean save the dreamers, i mean taxpayer watch will never win an election......i hope joe sparks or stuart denker didn't sign a petition to dissolve the very institution they want to be apart of........did i ever mention how much i love whoever it is that's running the show over there? keep up the good work....and thanks again for the wake up call.......are you sure their campaign manager isn't on our side?

Anonymous said...

and like ann said sharkbait.......until you let us all know who you really are......you just an anon anonymous troll yourself....

Anonymous said...

i'll call u on ur bs spin all day and all night ..... bring it

Churadogs said...

To All: Holey Moley.A Sunday Morning posting and within 24 hrs fifty-one comments. Wow! That's a record. Think maybe the topic hit a nerve? Well, Greg, who started this Neewsmission Blog, wanted it as a place where the community could come together to exhange ideas, and that seems to be taking place. Greg should be pleased.

Shark Inlet said...

Damn I should have paid attention to my own advice. Don't feed the trolls!

Publicworks, there is an internet saying that a discussion is pretty much over when one side brings up the Nazis or Hitler. Perhaps if you spend your time responding only to people who clearly want to have a discussion ...

Ann, it is not obvious that Greg would be pleased. The primary people who are taking over this blog are folks like me (who opposed the recall which Greg supported) and like anonymous (who are not so much interested in discussion as distraction ... and a potty mouth to boot).

Anonymous said...

Shark Inlet,

What is it about the fact that you are anonymous too that you aren't getting? Is Shark Inlet your real name? I think Ann was right, maybe you really do have a comprehension problem. I guess it's your inability to comprehend the facts that's causing your intensional but totally transparent spin on the sewer issues. It's good to know that you think of at least half of your and neighbors as anonymous "trolls". Until you want to let us all know what your REAL name is, I suggest you look in the mirror before you call someone an anonymous troll. Anyway, I'm really loving your intensional misunderstood lack of comprehension posts and I'm loving watching the "trolls" dissolve your BS crap. Maybe it's all the BS that's flowing from your head that's causing the nitrate problem in Los Osos.

Anonymous said...

Shark,

Here is the real funny thing about these comments regarding dissolution and name-calling directed at you and me.

Neither you or I have said we think dissolution is a great idea, nor have you or I ever said we support it that I know of.

Yet these people keep throwing out these blanket vitriolic statements that we're dissolutionists or worse. It's really quite comical. I think Ann might want to re-direct her comments about who actually has a comprehension issue.

Probably one of the best reasons to dissolve is exactly because of comments generated here. IF it does get dissolved, it'll probably be because the type of vitriol put out in this community. We keep hearing about reconciliation yet the very people that are adamently against dissolving on this blog want to label people like you and me when we have stated a preference that the district stay intact.

One thing should be clear that just doesn't get through to some people:

1) Dissolution is not in the best interests of the community to maintain control of the use of water.

2) It is also not clear whether the community can complete a wastewater project for reasons the district itself brought up at the ACL hearing (and it is irrefutable that the district has failed not once, but twice), particularly being able to fund a project. Notice I'm not blaming any individual - only the fact the DISTRICT has failed repeatedly.

And, without a wastewater project, the district loses control of the use of water. It's a big problem , and sweeping it under the rug or calling people names won't make it go away.

3) Anyone who believes that any project (on-site, in-town, or out-of-town) different than Tri-W is cheaper or better or whatever should have no fear of having a comparison with it. Unless, of course, they simply do not want any project.

Shark Inlet said...

If Lisa wants concensus and compromise and to rebuild our community she should ask the Dreamers back to the table and ask the most vitriolic anti-TriW people to welcome the Dreamers back.

Without a real majority in our community ... and that will never happen unless both Stan and Lisa are willing to work together ... the dissolution may be smarter. While there are many serious drawbacks to dissolution, I've seen no willingness to compromise on the part of either Lisa or Stan. It would be nice if Stan and Gordon and Sylvia and others were to go to the meetings and make public comment on matters as they see fit. It would be nice if they would go to various committee meetings to give their input. I am afraid that nowdays if they were to make public comments they would be harassed. While Lisa says that the board is welcoming of such comments I am convinced that her actions and those of the GM are not as welcoming as she would like to think. Furthermore, even if Lisa wants us to wave our hands rather than clap, there still is a huge problem with harassment. I should not have someone swear at me (like our anonymous friend has done) just for believing that the best plan is the one which is least expensive and gets our problem solved the soonest and that because of this the best plan is to go forward with TriW.

Ron is smart. He said that if the past board members came forward with a "mea culpa" it would allow our commmunity to start healing. I would add that people on both sides need to admit that they've been more interested in being "right" than in doing what the public wants ... that they've been more interested in winning than in getting the cheapest and best possible project at some points in time.

Ultimately, it is up to the board to decide what the board is going to do. Unlike what Gail wrote in today's letters section, there is nothing preventing the CSD from doing what they believe to be best within the scope of their authority. If this current board chooses not to do what the public wants them to do, they will be voted out of office in November or they will be dissolved. This board should not focus their efforts on responding to any dissolution threats. If they would simply let their actions speak it would give us a clear choice. If the board continues to argue with the dissolvers like squabbling children and continues to attempt to justify each of their past bad choices and continues to blame everyone else, the choice will also be clear.

Again, I would suggest the CSD board kiss and make up with property owners by tossing something on the table. Do you all remember the October "negotiations"? The only reason they happened at all is because the CSD baord was willing to say "we're open to discussing TriW". The only reason the discussions got as far as they did is because of the two year limit on exploring other options before the TriW project would start back up. The only reason that the majority of the the property owners supported the negotiated settlement is that they had a two year time limit before we would return to something that they considered sound ... well that and keeping the SRF loan. Funny, in Los Osos it was only Al who seemed to dislike the negotiated outcome. Maybe that is a measure of success.

Show the property owners some willingness to work together and it might happen. If the board chooses not to work with the property owners, they will have chosen certain failure due to the fact that property owners will not assess themselves again if there is an upcoming election and dissolution possibility. Why should I vote to give money to Lisa to do silly things when I could just wait until November when there is a possibility of getting a board which is more likely to work with me?


Finally a note for the sake of clarity. If anyone thought I was referring to all those who prefer the current board as trolls, I apologize. I figured that a person with good reading comprehension would have understood this, but it seems that our reading comprehension expert and arbiter of truth missed the point so I must apologize. I don't believe the typical Los Osos citizen to be a troll, just those who post "inflamatory, sarcastic and disruptive comments" in this discussion group. If the shoe fits, wear it. If the shoe doesn't fit, please don't think I was referring to you.

Anonymous said...

wow publicnotgettinghowitworks & Sharkbait

you're really spinning your BS into a shitstorm tornado aren't you. First you say you don't support the dissolution movement, then procede to give reasons why we should dissolve the CSD and build the TRI-W project which is DEAD. For some reason, you think that if you dissolve the CSD, your TRI-W project will magically rise from the ashes. TRI-W is GONE. Gone with the overbid contractors, gone with the illegal(no 218 vote) SRF loan, and gone with the assholes who tried to ramrod a project into the middle of our town against our will. Did you read yeaterdays Tribune? The waterboard might want to come to the table and work with the CSD on a better solution and a waterwater project for our community. The CSD that you want to dissolve. Oh, that's right, Yes, I'm sure you and all your friends were avid recall supporters and that you are against the dissolution of the CSD.
RIIIIIIIIIIIIIGT.
nice try

Anonymous said...

OK, Ymousnona, whatever you say.

The editorial had nothing to do with working for a better wastewater solution. It had to do with approval of giving the CSD more authority to collect fees for a Septic District. So, instead of paying directly for an inspection/repair you go through the CSD, and they add on charges.

You are a hoot. You haven't given one reason not to dissolve, but Sharky and I have.

If you are any indication of what the CSD represents or the majority of it's supporters, it probably would be wise to dissolve.

Fortunately, I doubt that's the case.

Anonymous said...

wait a second. you just said in your last post that you weren't in favor of dissolution?
YOU SAID:
"Neither Shark or I have said we think dissolution is a great idea, nor have Shark or I ever said we support it that I know of."

So, what in the hell are you talking about? Which is it? I think you just flushed your creditability down the toilet? I hope all the BS you're spewing doesn't send our nitrate levels off the chart. Don't worry your silly spin is so transparent everybody including the blind in both eyes can see right thru it. Maybe you're a psychotic schizophrenic that entertains themself by talking out of both sides of their mouth?

"So, instead of paying directly for an inspection/repair you go through the CSD, and they add on charges."

well, what I do know is that if the CSD is dissolved,
ARE YOU READY...A REASON THAT I'VE ALREADY GIVEN FOR NOT DISSOLVING FOR THOSE PAYCHOTIC SCHIZO'S OUT THERE THAT ARE INTO SELECTIVE READING AND SPINNING....
the County will have to take over our Fire, Water, and Wastewater Service.....and guess what they will tack on administrative fees in addition to service fees for ALL of these services and ALL OF THESE SERVICES WILL COST MORE.....yes, dissolution great idea....NOT!!!
why do you guys keep coming up with these ideas that are so easy to campaign against?
A septic district make's a lot more sense, in the interim, than random CDO's don't you think?
Anyway, I'd rather be a "hoot" than a double talking deceptive, BS spinning fear monger.
have a nice day:)

Anonymous said...

I checked. Not until your last post on this discussion did you provide a reason not to dissolve. (plus it’s hard to follow all the anons)

Congratulations then, you finally contributed something worthwhile other than screaming!

Hey, just because I can see the dissolution point of view and a couple of reasons behind it, doesn't mean I support it, sunshine. It's not double-talk, because I don't want the CSD dissolved. Hey, if you can't see another point of view without going off the deep end, that's your problem, not mine.

Go ahead and point exactly to where I said I supported dissolving the district. Go ahead and try, because you can't.

Excuse me for not being lock-step in line with some sicko CSD gang-banging fraternal brotherhood. Hey, maybe you’re taking loyalty oaths and have secret signals.

Keep screaming. If you say it over and over, I guess somebody's bound to believe. Hey man, why don't you become a bouncer at the CSD meetings, and check for the secret password to let in only the 'true believers' like yourself.

Anonymous said...

EXTRA EXTRA!!!
read all about it....
publicworks supports the CSD and is against dissolution.....

way to go public!!!
nice to see that you've finally come to you senses. Nice to see that you finally realized that 8 years ago the solutions group offered us better, cheaper, faster and gave us absolutely nothing. All they've done is lose two elections and get recalled. nice to see that you realize how hypocritical it is that the very people who lobbied to form the CSD now want to dissolve it just because your community rejected their bait and switch....now they want to take their ball and go home, they want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. nice to see that you realize the the TRI-W project wasn't about a wastewater project, it was about a "land deal". Nice to see that you realize what a waste of time it is to beat the DEAD TRI-W horse. Nice to see that you realize that dissolution or no dissolution TRI-W is GONE. nice to see that you realize that dissolution does absolutely NOTHING to resolve the CDO's. nice to see that you realize the dissolving the CSD does nothing to advance or community to a wastewater solution.
Since you're onboard i'm going to give you the secret password......
the password is......"democracy"
nice of you see how valuable it is it have a local Government and 8000 votes rather than no government and 1 vote on a 5 member County board.....i take back all the mean things i said about you. Im sure the "founding father crud" remark was just a frustrated gaff....now i know you fully support our CSD board that was duly elected by we the poeple of los osos to represent our community......good for you public..... way to go.