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Friday, February 24, 2006

Stood Up

Well, dang! I’m sitting here perusing the bright yellow Taxpayers’ Watch flyer, the one that undoubtedly convinced 2,000 of my fellow citizens to sign the Dissolve the CSD petitions the Taxpayers’ Watch has been passing around, you know, the one that conflates rejoining the county with stopping the Cease & Desist Orders, like Taxpayers Watch didn’t and doesn’t want the signer to know that the RWQCB officially, on the record, has stated that dissolving the CSD and stopping the CDOs are utterly disconnected, that one has nothing to do with the other, so then, since I’m scared and confused and since at least one of the Taxpayers’ Watchers has told me personally that he KNOWS Roger Briggs of the RWQCB would stop the CDOs the minute the county took over and additionally he KNOWS the county will take over and immediately start building the Tri-W sewer plant in the middle of town, and when I asked him how he “knows” that, he started backpedaling, Uh, er, Um, but heck, I’m confused and so scared of that big meanie Briggs so I’m not thinking straight, and then there’s Joyce Albright, chairperson of Taxpayers’ Watch in her Feb 22 letter to the Tribune editor stating as fact that “the old project is not dead. It will be resurrected by the county and permits reissued,” despite the statements by the RWQCB’s prosecution staff that they know of no county project or plans to build anything anywhere, so now I’m really confused, facts, lies, spin, conflation, oh, what’s a person to do, and there at the bottom of the bright yellow Dissolution Flyer it conflates “safety” with signing the petition and says I should sign the petition and CONVINCE my friends to do the same and ends with a CONCLUSION that “The ONLY way out of this dilemma is to DISSOLVE THE LOCSD AND ASK THE COUNTY TO TAKE CHARGE. Sad but needed” so what’s a person to do, Oh, Dear, Oh, Dear.

So then I look at the Feb 22 Bay News, and the headline says, “County Won’t Help Homeowners,” and there it is, the county was asked by the CSD to step in as a “designated party” or even an “interested party” in the upcoming March 23 CDO hearings and turns out the “Supervisors voted in closed session last week to not enter the fray with the Regional Water Quality Control Board as an ‘interested party’ and defend homeowners being prosecuted for polluting the groundwater.”

“According to County Administrator David Edge, one of the reasons for denial was that the CSD asked them to jump on board in a hurry. ‘There was not enough opportunity to review and consider it,’ said Edge, [who] lives in Los Osos. ‘“I fully expect to revisit it down the road. I imagine they (the CSD) will be submitting a formal request.’”

So, there it was. A whole bunch of people have been told as fact, positively, absolutely, that their loving protector would be waiting for them at the altar and then, Ker-Blam! he gets cold feet and says to his terrified bride who’s running full tilt into his now disappearing arms, “Errrhhhh, Ummmmm, wellll, we’ll THINK about it . . . like, LATER and then scuttles out the church door, little puffs of dust flying up behind his blurred, fast flying feet, leaving his loving, trusting, dim-bulb Los Osos bride standing in the vestibule weeping and crying out, “But, but, you were gonna SAVE me!” while clutching a bunch of wilted petunias and what the hell is she going to do now with all those little finger sandwiches and champagne punch waiting back in the reception hall? O Woe!

Meantime, ironies of ironies, the CSD has already asked for and gotten permission to enter the fray as a Designated Party in order to “defend homeowners being prosecuted for polluting the groundwater,” to use the Bay News’ terminology. In short, to help defend the very homeowners who have signed petitions to dissolve away their only “protector.”

It’s too, too delicious.

On a related note, the County owns the Los Osos branch of the Library and the community park, both of which have toilets that discharge into the groundwater. Yet the Regional Water Quality Control Board DID NOT slap them with a Civil Liability Action in December, like they did in for the three properties (and toilets) owned by the CSD.

I wonder why not?

38 comments:

Shark Inlet said...

Ann,

Two quick things.

1 - You are complaining that the Dreamers/Dissolvers are misrepresenting facts during their campaign. I agree with you and am more than a bit perturbed that they would be telling people that if the CSD is dissolved that the CnD orders will be rescinded and that no additional orders will go out. This is in direct contrast with what the RWQCB has told us.

What is "too, too delicious"? That the Dreamers/Dissolvers are stooping to the same sort of lies that the Recallers did during the last campaign? I don't find that delicious at all ... more sad. Well, I suppose that by telling lies to get elected (we have a plan that will end up costing you less than $100/month, we won't get fined, we won't lose the SRF, within 100 days we'll have studied all the alternative sites, etc.), this board opened the door to dirty politics and lies. A damn shame.


2 - The County will receive CnD orders for pumping the Library and park septics just like the rest of the properties in the PZ. Why not slap them with an ACL ... because the County did not stop a project which would help solve the problem. The issue here with the ACL hearing is that the LOCSD made a deliberate choice to NOT stop polluting. It is that action that caused the ACL hearing. If an individual were to make that same choice (by not pumping when ordered), the RWQCB would probably go through an ACL hearing for the case. If the County were to not pump the park septic system, the RWQCB would fine them. No bias here.

Mike Green said...

Well thank you Ann, I've been asking pretty much those same questions with the same silent results.
Of course you do it much better than me.

What would truley be delicious is to have LAFCO require an election.

I submit that the CSD run on the platform of--------

Cheaper, Better, Faster

Churadogs said...

Hmmm, I thought the CSD had to put the brakes on the project because Measure B made it a violation of law to continue putting a sewer plant in the middle of town. If so, then the CSD AND the County had no control over that, yet only the CSD got slapped with an ACL hearing, one that was being prepared even before the election was certified. I'm still puzzled as to why.

Anonymous said...

...how about this platform..

costlier, slower, but BETTER

or

never say never again

Shark Inlet said...

Ann,

Did the Bay News move their offices to Morro Bay? Why?

Anonymous said...

I have the yellow sheet in front of me. There is no reference to CDOs! Might this conversation with a TWer be a "conflation" on your part Ann?

Anonymous said...

An election might be the best resolution to the towns' devisiveness. Either way, the direction for a sewer will be clear to all!

Mike Green said...

Publickworks, What in the devil are you thinking? everyone knows that in Los Osos you need the slogan Cheaper better faster if you want to win elections.
It works everytime!

Anonymous said...

Another election ??

We just had one, look what that got us.

Los Osos needs elections like it needs another law firm.

What Los Osos needs is a friggin sewer.

Mike Green said...

Amen publickworks, when you find yourself trapped in a hole that you just dug, the first thing you should do is stop digging

Anonymous said...

Shark, I thought you were against the dissolution of the CSD?. Didn't you say that in a previous post? You're really confusing me?. I've also checked into some of the lies that are being told in the propaganda that the "dissolutionist" are distributing at their tables. A few months ago, I signed the petition to dissolve, just because I'm sick of this whole thing. But I'm going to call Judy Rodewald and ask her how I go about unsigning. I know and have been told that I can do this. I really am tired of this but I will not let fear and lies and spin rule the day. I'm going to un-sign the petition and take back my freedom. The solutions group had 8 years to deliver this town a project that the community supported and they failed. It's was their idea to create the CSD and now they want to dissolve it just because they were "recalled". How really, really sad is that. They want to destroy our government because they lost an election. We need to give our newly elected Government a fair shot at solving our waste water problem.

Anonymous said...

publicworks,

In an earlier post you wrote...."if you can cite a legal precedant where the water board lost a prohibition discharge enforcement case which forced them to rescind it, I'll be yelling for the CSD to sue at full strength. The balls in your court."

Well, can you cite a legal precedant where the water board issued cease & desist orders on 5000 private property owner's just for going to the bathroom? Can you cite a legal precedant where the water board issued more than 5000 cease & desist orders in one year. Industry included? I am personally loving what they just did. They just exposed themselves big time. This action will be their downfall. Just watch the Feb 15th workshop on ch20. They don't have a clue what they are doing. This is going to kill them in the court of law and public opinion. I can wait till this hits PBS"Frontline" or "60 minutes". Someone call the CDF quick, while we can still afford it, Matt Thompson and Roger Briggs need to have their heads removed from their asses.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

While we are at it, why don't we have Mr. Blesky do the same?

Anonymous said...

"A few months ago, I signed the petition to dissolve, just because I'm sick of this whole thing. But I'm going to call Judy Rodewald and ask her how I go about unsigning." Nice try Lisa, Julie, Gail, Joey!

Churadogs said...

Quick note: Inlet, yes the Bay News moved their offices to Morro Bay. Offices look waaaaayyy cool. I was told since BN goes from Cambria to LO, they felt MB was more centrally located.

To Anonx re no mention of CDOs in the yellow Taxpayers' Watch flyer. On the address side it says in reverse-out block:CEASE AND DESIST ORDERS ARE HERE WILL FINES BE NEXT? Then, inside, under the heading FACTS: it states, " . . . and mandated pumping of your septic tank."

As for my converstation with the TRIWer, nope, that's what he said. I found it interesting, especially the adament "knowing," and how that changed as I inquired more closely. At one point, I playfully said that Roger Briggs should put that ("deal) in writing, to which he replied that Roger wouldn't be that stupid. I'll say not.

Anonymous said...

anon, what does 5000 concurrent orders have to do with the precedent of the actual CASE(s) at hand?

Just because it's a LOT of cases doesn't make the legal standing of the waterboard any worse. Public opinion doesn't determine outcomes. And the public opinion outside of Los Osos is drastically different than that in Los Osos.

If depending on Frontline is all you've got, that's not good news.

You said they exposed themselves bigtime. Please be specific how.

Again, cite a specific case that is in your favor?

Anonymous said...

...all you have to do is watch their own feb 15th workshop on the C&D orders to see how lost and clueless they are....their own experts telling them that pumping every 2 months is not good......when Matt Thompson, rwqcb staffer heading up the show, was asked about the "science" of pumping every 2 months, he said "there is none. It's unheard of"....tell it to the Judge please Matt.....when asked how pumping 36 million of gallons of water out of our aquifer, that's already in overdraft, and dumping it in santa maria and/or bakersfield would affect our water supply problem, Matt said "We are not in the water suppy business. We are in the water quality business".....Good answer Matt. clean our water by stealing it and dumping it in santa maria...good answer, fix our water quality by fucking up our water supply.......i can't wait to get these guys into court...... these C&D orders are the best thing that ever could of happend. they are uniting our community and they are exposing the waterboard's actions as political actions and not scientific actions to conserve or clean and advance our community towards a wastewater solution.......

Mike Green said...

To the last Anon, I would like to know your opinion on onsite systems as defined by Steve over at Los Osos Views
Thanks

Anonymous said...

With due respect, the yellow sheet, "you know, the one that conflates rejoining the county with stopping the Cease & Desist Orders" does ask the question, "Cease and Desist orders are here will fines be next?" but says nothing about a CDO demise when the CSD is dissolved. This is something you asserted!

Also, your hearsay is just that , YOUR hearsay! There is absolutely no way this alleged taxpayer watch conversation is verifiable without corroborating evidence which your readers do not have as you are well aware. More "conflation" on your part?

Mike Green said...

To anonx did you read the letter in the Trivial by Joyce Albright?
I don't know any other way to parse the meaning of that letter other than to come to the conclusion that Taxpayers Watch is indulging in fanciful assertions.
(Not that that suprises me in the least)

Mike Green said...

Open challenge to all Taxpayer Watch supporters:
You will get what you want quite easily if you can provide these simple things
1, A statement from each County Supervisor supporting your assertations that the TriW site WILL be used
immedietly and without delay
2 That individual property owners WILL be protected from onerous CDOs
3 That a real affordibility study will be completed before construction
4 And Hell will be refrozen at the soonest possible time

Mike Green said...

oops, I ment Unfrozen
I got a bad cold, not paying close attention, soory

Anonymous said...

MG said, "conclusion that Taxpayers Watch is indulging in fanciful assertions". I think that you and Ann fail to "parse" the basis for Taxpayer Watch: the CSD has wrought havoc on this community and deserve to be dissolved. You can "conflate" all you want about what the county will or will not do, but CSD incompetance is not acceptable!

Churadogs said...

To Anox, if wreaking havoc on this community is the preent basis for dissolving the CSD, then we should have dissolved the thing the moment the new CSD was formed and continued, in the face of a RWQCB report that the Ponds of Avalon would NOT be approved, to plod for two years futzing around with the Ponds, and we can continue down to the point when the old CSD started pounding as much (unsecured taxpayer's)money as they possibly could into the ground and cutting trees down and digging up Tri W site, BEFORE the recall election and BEFORE the Measure B election. Talk about havoc and wreaking . . Yikes.

Mike Green said...

Anonx
I have no problem going after the current board for what they have done.
Thats politics fair and square
I do have a problem with the what THEY are conflating the county will do,
Put up or shut up
Your basis may be sound but your actions are not.

Shark Inlet said...

To our anonymous friend who argues that the RWQCB is hosing up our water supply ... read the discussions here more carefully. Publicworks and I both pointed out reasons to think that the pumping every other month may, indeed, be a good thing.

To Mike ... even if an affordability study is completed and says that we cannot afford the thing we'll still have to build it. What will be ironic at that point in time is it is those of us who are accused of "not caring for the poor" who will be seen in retrospect as those who were doing the most for the poorer members in our community ... those who will have to move out after our plant is build but who could have afforded the TriW project costs.

To Ann ... of course there were issues with the Solutions Group's hopeful attitude that the ponding would be approved. In the exact same way, there are issues with the CCLO board's hopefully attitude that they can save money and have an out of town plant too. Not gonna happen.

Mike Green said...

As usual, I thank Sharkey for the input.
Granted, an affordibilty study may be a waste of time as per the reality of actualy doing something, but aren't you a little bit interested in what it would reveal?
I know I am.
I'm suprised you didn't come down on me about my challenge, you did sign the petition didn't you?
Your faithfull friend, Mike Green

Shark Inlet said...

The only reason I am interested in any affordability study is if it would help us qualify for some federal grants which could make the thing less expensive for the poorest among us.

I don't know whether the previous board was going to pursue that after the TriW project got off the ground. Some would say it is a mistake to do the plant before the affordability study. I would say that it is a mistake to do an affordability study before the plant ... if the affordability study makes the plant more unaffordable due to the delay.

About your challenge ... you're getting to be quite the spinner. Some would say that your fourth item (hell freezing over) is the most likely.

I signed the petition because as of now, I am convinced this board will take actions that will make it next to impossible for even their replacements, the new majority as of election day, to put in a sewer and plant as cheaply as the County would do. In particular, the choice to list TriW for sale before even verifying that Measure B forbids a WWTF at the site shows they are (in my opinion) more interested in moving the WWTF no matter what the cost than in doing what is best for our citizens.

If they convince me that they're open to compromise (as I keep saying) by putting TriW back on the table until it is clear that Measure B is a law which will survive legal challanges and by committing to build at TriW if they can't find something cheaper elsewhere. If they'll do these two things, I think that many like me would unsign the petition to dissolve.

Frankly, on the course this board is on, I don't see that we have the time to take a wait-n-see approach.

Mike Green said...

Sharky! Thanks! I never thought that I would EVER get to the title "spinner" and comming from you that is a HUGE complement!

I dedicate this honor to my mentor (even though she dosn't know it}
The QUEEN of Los Osos!
Ann Calhoun!

Anonymous said...

MG, could you translate for me what you mean with:

"I have no problem going after the current board for what they have done.
Thats politics fair and square
I do have a problem with the what THEY are conflating the county will do,
Put up or shut up
Your basis may be sound but your actions are not."

Who is it the "THEY" in the above quotation and what are my actions that are not sound?

I feel the pressure of impending CDO's and no one of course knows what the county's actions will be should they inherit the sewer problem.

I wish to dissolve because I don't think there is any viable solution with the current CSD's course of action. We are broke, not likely to get property owners to fund anything this board offers, have litigations going until the cows come home, yada yada.

THERE IS NOT an inexpensive solution for a sewer for 5000 homes, period.

I find it interesting that no one on either side has mentioned the $4000 per/ septic presentation presented at the 16th CSD meeting. Is this because no one believes that this will work?

Mike Green said...

Anonx, Good questions,
Here is the problem, as a writer I suck. I admit I'm hard to decipher
What I ment about "they"
Is Taxpayers watch.
I feel that "they" are misrepresenting some things, specificaly what the county would do if handed the responsibility of our wastewater problem.
I do feel that "they" have good arguments however.
So do you.
I hope this helps

I just dont agree with the conclusions that we need to dissolve

Anonymous said...

Mike G, you write fine and it is nice to agree to disagree. Good night!

Mike Green said...

Thanks!

Churadogs said...

Regarding the $4,000 Dr. Alexander's de-nitrification unit mentioned at the CSD meeting. According to Dr. Alexander, his device can be installed by a plumber, removes %98 of the nitrates from a septic tank. And, according to him, his test data has either been checked and validated by the RWQCB or "approved" or "acknowledged" or something. . . (things get very, very iffy here in dealing with the RWQCB -- getting a straight answer on what they "approve or don't approve" of is nearly impossible.)

IF Dr. Alexander is right, (A HUGE IF) instlling one of these devices on each home within the prohibition zone until a sewer is built (target date is supposed to be 2010) would be cheaper than the ridiculous pumping scheme.

HOWEVER, Matt Thompson informed me that any such "device" would require a $900 a year "discharge permit" from the RWQCB, which would likely make the device more expensive than pumping.

So, a question for the RWQCB. Will you waive the $900 a year fee (since )IF) it's been demonstrated that the devices remove waaaaay more than the 22% reductuion your mad pumping scheme will) thereby getting more nitrate reduction for less bucks without removing 24 - 36 million gallons of water from the basin, and require that these devices be installed and homeowners sign on to agree to hook up to the sewer when it goes on line & etc.(The reason for that is because homeowners using the device might start asking some questions such as, if the sewer plant is allowed to discharge nitrates of 7% (or whatever will be allowed for discharge) then why should I discard a unit that discharges only 2% to go with a system that's pollution 2 x as much & so forth. The RWQCB doesn't want people thinking in that direction at all. Plus, AB885 is coming on line and that will be the controling document and that deals with square footage as well as discharges, so unless people could use street rights of way as part of their square footage, Dr. Alexander's units will likely not be allowed in most of Los Osos' prohibiton zone.)

In short, does the RWQCB simply want to financially punish people for little environmental gain and possible awful environmental loss OR do they want to get nitrate reduction while the new sewer's being built, and will use waiving of the discharge fee as the financial carrot that will make such an interim scheme pencil out both financially AND environmentally.

And, I will repeat again, this all hinges on IF Dr. Alexander's device actually works vis a vis nitrate removal.

Regarding affordibility: I'm a stuck record here, but we still do NOT know the real costs involved with Tri W. The $205 or whatever the numberlast quoted was, was simply the base line cost, did not include increased O,M & Rs. If people could only afford the $205 of Tri W, within a year of beginning operations, they'd be out on the street as energy costs would pump that number up imediately & so forth. Hopefully, the affordability study will help with grants, but that may be iffy since the federal gov is in worse financial shape than we are.

As for me being Queen of Los Osos. Feh, I'm going for Empress del Mundo!

Shark Inlet said...

Perhaps the CSD could do us all a favor and get Alexander's device tested and verified and ... if it works ... we could then address the RWQCB waiving the fee issue. Does the CSD want to spend the time and money to get the thing tested? If they truly care about us, they will do so. After all, they were the ones who trotted Alexander out before us to show that there is a better way.


About the $205/month ... yes, we don't know exactly all the costs and yes, energy costs and the wages of employees would go up. However, we knew, 100%, the P&I costs of borrowing the money to build the TriW plant. Just a reminder, this is far more solid than any other number out there that the RFP will bring us.

Churadogs said...

Dr. Alexander has appeared before The County when they still owned us, he has appeared before the Original CSD Board, and now this one. His "device" has been available for years. According to him, the RWQCB has vetted it. I have written a question to Matt Thompson at RWQCB to ask if they have indeed verified Dr. Alexander's numbers.

The problem with any onsite device is that the RWQCB doesn't want anyone using them because they want a traditional sewer plant built. Period, end of sentence. True, they're not legally allowed to make that choice, but they do it anyway, via fines and threats and putting up impossible barriers to any onsite solutions.

So, getting a truthful answer out of them for even interim onsite nitrate treatment devices is like pulling teeth. When I've asked, I've been repeatedly told, Well, we'll have to look at it on a case by case basis.(i.e. buildt it at great expense THEN we'll rule on whether or not we'll allow it.) I even asked, "Do you have baseline disharge numbers/perameters on nitrate levels and other pollutants that you can make public so the citizens could compare those numbers against the stated output of various devices," and I was told, "Oh, no, we don't have that information, but I guess it would be a good idea to work something like that up."

One month away from the CDO hearings and the RWQCB staff doesn't have baseline discharge numbers for "alternative systems ???????? They haven't invented them yet?

And you wonder why I have serious doubts about the RWQCB's "science" and interest in dropping nitrate numbers as well as their seriousness of purpose in problem solving.

Nope, they want Los Osos to build a traditional gravity collection sewer system. Period. End of sentence. And they will do ANYTHING to see that happens. Anything.

Shark Inlet said...

I don't think the RWQCB cares one bit about whether we choose gravity or step.

They do care that we have a sewer and WWTF.

Because ultimately we'll be required to use the sewer, onsite seems like a very expensive short term plan. Onsite systems are great for other places. Los Osos is urbanized enough to really need a sewer.

Again, I encourage you to float your own choice of onsite system when you get your CDO. If you've got enough evidence that nitrates and other nasties are removed ... they might approve of your plan because, while you would still be discharging, your discharges would be far less problematic.

This is one place the CSD could actually help us. If the CSD were willing to fund a study that verifies the efficacy of various onsite systems, they could argue that such systems should be acceptable for the short term until the sewer is in place.

On the other hand, if an onsite system would cost about $5k and it would cost another $100/month for testing plus even a nominal fee to cover the RWQCB staff time to look over testing results, it wouldn't be any less expensive than pumping. If the cost is much higher than $5k it would seem unfeasible.

Then there are the fines if your discharges are above allowable turbidity or nitrates. Certainly such fines, if levied, would create a stink on the part of the community.

It is certainly more expensive to do onsite than pumping.

You have no justification for your claim that the RWQCB wants gravity.

Churadogs said...

Here's the question for the RWQCB: If your mad pumping scheme is in order to reduce nitrate loading 22% (their claim), will you be willing to waive the $900 annual discharge permit and testing fee per household for people willing to invest in, say, Dr. Alexander's "gizmo" which supposedly reduces nitrates 98%? In other words, as an interim measure until the new sewer gets built, will you certify Dr. Alexander's $4,000 gizmo, (he has the test data) waive the discharge and testing fees, all of which would make the cost way under the pump 'n dump costs) And do that as a "blanket" alternative. All folks would have to do is send in their installation receipts and a signed agreement that when the sewer comes on line, they'll hook up. Simple proposal. I shall wait for the answer from the RWQCB. Shall I hold my breath in the meantime?