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Sunday, April 16, 2006

Measure B Bites Dust? Perils of Overreach? Does it Matter? Questions Remain!


Judge Piquet [correction! correction! It was Judge Martin Tangeman's case. Here in Sewerville, you need a program to keep all the lawsuits straight. My apologies.] handed down his ruling as to the validity of the Measure B initiative, an initiative that would have allowed the citizens to vote on selecting a sewer system they want to "buy," including the option of "none of the above." If I read his ruling right, it appears that the initiative failed because the initiative “over reached,” that is, it had a clause in it that allowed the voter to vote for NO PROJECT, an option that overstepped its bounds and slipped it into the realm of being an “administrative” decision, not strictly a” legislative” one.

What’s unclear to me is how the legal mandate (and limitations) of the Regional Water Quality Control Board fit within this ruling. The Board cannot dictate what kind of system is to be built. They can only set discharge standards, for example, and then approve or disapprove of whatever system is brought before them for a discharge permit.

So if voters elected a Board and the Board wanted to select one sort of system or another, the RWQCB would have no “administrative” say in the matter, only the right to approve or disapprove of whatever was decided. And if the voters elected a Board that decided they didn’t want to build ANY system and instead wanted to have the town’s tanks pumped every day and truck the wastewater to Oregon, the RWQCB would also have no say in using that method either, so long as the discharge requirements under Resolution 83-12 & 13 were met.

So, there’s my puzzle with this ruling. Tangeman ruled the measure invalid because, if I understand correctly, the initiative gave the voter power to directly vote for . . . something . . . as opposed to voting for elected officials who would then vote for . . . something. Apparently the former is “legislative” and is considered a no-no, while the latter is “administrative” and is o.k.

What I couldn’t find in the ruling is the judge’s discussion of a phrase that was in the Initiative that stated that if any section of the initiative was found to be illegal, it could be “severed” and the rest would remain. So, I have no idea what happened to that.

Also, it’s still a puzzle to me why the Judge had a problem with the clause in the initiative that allowed the voters to vote for NO PROJECT. He notes: “An initiative is not legally permitted to take over that administrative function by placing the issue of whether the District will comply with the state mandate in the hands of the electorate. Measure B unlawfully does so, by allowing the electorate to choose not only where such a facility shall be built, but whether such a facility will be built at all. In other words, the electorate is allowed to choose whether they prefer the “no project’ alternative, which means non-compliance with an existing state-imposed mandate.”

Uh, please correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Resolution 83-12 & 13 set discharge levels, with an ultimate result in NO DISCHARGE by such and such time? And since the RWQCB can’t dictate WHAT system (if any) is to be built, (or where, if anywhere) I’m still puzzled as to why a NO PROJECT vote would violate anything, since the "state imposed mandate" is about discharge levels. Once again, if voters wanted to truck their waste daily to Oregon for disposal, they would be meeting the RWQCB’s discharge requirements (hence meeting the “state-imposed mandate”) but they’d be doing it without a “project.” So, I have to wonder if Judge Piquet thinks that the state and the Regional Board legally has an “administrative” say in building some particular project? So far as I know, they don’t. Not legally, at least. (Judge Tangeman) does note, “Although Resolution 83-13 did not specify how the discharge of sewage should be handled, it evidently contemplated the construction of some sort of facility because it established a timetable for the District to “Begin Design, Complete Design, obtain Construction Funding, Begin construction, Complete Construction.” What I’d be curious to know is whether that “evident” contemplation was mere assumption or had some legal basis.)

And, finally, does any of this matter any more? Seriously. For most folks, Measure B was a whisker-thin “win,” that, in may ways, simply represented a desperate measure on the part of people who wanted a say in where their sewer plant was going to be built since the recalled board refused to hold a Prop 218-type vote. (A matter that’s still unresolved.) So, now it’s kaput, does it matter?

As with all things Sewer, stay tuned.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ann, with all your verbage, you have totally confused your intended readership, which is probably your objective!

The judge was very clear that deciding where a mandated facility is located is an administrative decision and is not allowed to be determined by a petition process.

If the CSD wants to pump everyday and haul to Oregon, this would be allowed. Have you consulted with Lisa and gang, they can offer this and give you credit for such a creative solution to the waste situation.

Think of all the acclaim you'll get!

Anonymous said...

Wow, I just can't believe you wrote what you did.

Ann just summed up her entire knowledge (or ignorance) of the situation - by her own words she doesn't comprehend. That sums it all up.

What the ruling means is that 3 different Judges have ruled or stated against Measure B. What it means is the credibility of anyone who supported it, signed it, crafted it, or voted for it is suspect. What it means is that the whole ball of wax (not even one sentence in it) is bogus. Is that clear enough?

What it means (by your own ignorance) is that you have almost zero understanding of the law.

What it means is that you apparently don't understand how representative government works in relation to constitutional questions of direct democracy.

Then you digress to 218. Why in the world do you even want a 218 vote? Do you even understand ALL the ramifications of a 218 vote? Do you just like to vote for the sake of voting? Apparently, if you voted for B, you do.

" If I read his ruling right, it appears that the initiative failed because the initiative “over reached,”
well, it's painfully obvious you don't read the ruling right.

To quote a journalist, 'the past is prologue to the future'. Well, Ann, Measure B is the past, and the people that associated themselves with it deceived you about it.

Remember Ann, about how it would protect from fines (No), help move the sewer and lower costs(No).

Before the election, the board and the candidates were explicity told by Judges (twice) that Measure B was bogus. Remember how you have moaned and groaned about how the Solutions Group misled. So unless your the biggest hypocrit columnist in the world, it's time you specifically informed your readers how the community was misled yet once again. Fat chance that will happen.

Churadogs said...

Anonymous said "The judge was very clear that deciding where a mandated facility is located is an administrative decision and is not allowed to be determined by a petition process."

I will quote Judge Piquet again, "An initiative is not legally permitted to take over that administrative function by placing the issue of whether the district will comply with the state mandate in the hands of the electorate. . . ."

Measure B did not give the voters a choice in whether they would comply or not comply with the RWQCB's discharge orders. to my knowledge, the initiative didn't challenge 83-13 in any way, for example. The RWQCB can't dictate HOW or where or what kind of system (if any) is to be used, they can only dictate what discharge perameters are allowed.

So, clearly, I'm missing something here if the judge thinks measure B was about compliance or noncompliance with the state mandate of 83-13.

While my trucking sewage to Oregon is a joke, it's also relevant because if the electorate chooses to truck its septage to Oregon, they're complying with and meeting the mandate (discharge levels,) they're just not doing that by building something called a "project" that can be sited somewhere. That's what's puzzling.

Also, if the state's clean water mandates said ONLY Y X,or,Z systems CAN and MUST be built, period, end of sentence, then clearly, that would be an administrative decision and elected officials would only be able to choose between those three systems and then pick a place to put it.

That's another reason I found Piquet's mentioning that 83-13 "did not specify how the discharge of sewage should be handled . . . but "evidently contemplated the construction of some sort of facility . . ." Evidently? Is that an assumption (common sense?) or a legal fact( DOES the RWQCB actually have the power to require "construction" of "a facility" of some sort?) That's still not clear to me.

Churadogs said...

Publicworks said:"Then you digress to 218. Why in the world do you even want a 218 vote? Do you even understand ALL the ramifications of a 218 vote? Do you just like to vote for the sake of voting? Apparently, if you voted for B, you do."

At a recent CSD meeting, it was stated that SRF loans NOW require a prop-218-type vote. Why?

Anonymous said...

Yes, Ann, that's only one aspect of 218.

And the option of getting an SRF loan without 218 has gone out the window, thanks to the district.

Anonymous said...

The dust-biting of "Measure B" OUGHT to matter to the board in that the impediment to being fair to the whole community is gone now, and Tri-W needs to come back on to the table for COST COMPARISON with their obviously preferred out of town (and probably more directly expensive to the homeowner) step/steg system.

They should remember that not only was Measure B won on a whisker-thin margin, but so were the three seats now occupied by Fouche, Senet and Cesena.

If they truly believe that the CSD should not be dissolved, then they need to prove it by going back to re-evaluate a project that satisfied half the community that wanted a project at all. If they cannot do that in fair conscience, then they should step down and let voters decide who might more fairly represent them.

I think COST is the primary deciding factor on the type and location of a plant. To not investigate all options is a huge and FURTHER breaking of trust with the community.

Shark Inlet said...

Spectator,

Perhaps This is the file you intended to include?

Anonymous said...

A disturbing number of "For Sale" signs have popped up here in the "prohibition zone" where I live. I can only hope it's not people selling their equity that they had hoped to use as a sort of a cushion in their waning years. To have to leave this haven over the bumbling of our elected and appointed officials is a sad thing.
This thing started in the early 70's.
Either you issue an edict or you don't. In 1983 an official edict was given. 23 years later you're going to finally lay down the hammer? All the while, no remedial actions have either taken place or been required to marginalize whatever it is we're doing until a permanent solution is in place. I think the people in position to enforce these actions should all be fired for not doing their job. When I moved here 35 years ago, my friends an I would take our dogs swimming at the sweet springs ponds. Oh how they loved to 'swan dive' into the ponds retrieving sticks. It's the turtles property now. What do you suppose would be the penalty nowadays, Public Lynching?

Anonymous said...

When the CDO's get into court, the CCRWQCB'S teeth will fall out. I can't wait.......maybe i should put my house up for sale too. i know it wont sell, then when the RWQCB gets creamed on every single aspect of their case, i can file a counter suit against the RWQCB because i wasn't able to sell my house due to their illegel CDOs......great idea!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Spec said,

"I feel really sorry for those who have bought here in the PZ during the past three years. They are upside down at this point (their house may be worth less than they owe)."

That's interesting! Two to three weeks ago the TT published a table indicating that the median selling price of a home in home in Los Osos went up by 23% as compared with a year ago. It was one of the top three communities in SLO county as far as real estate appreciation year over year beating the city of SLO for example. I think those of us who own property are going to do just fine.

Churadogs said...

Spectator said...
To ALL:

Have any of you read Judge Tangeman's decision? I thought Pliquet was on the contractors case?

Maybe I am getting old and confused? Ann?


No, I'm getting old and confused. See my Correction. It was Judge Tangeman. Jeesh! Too many lawsuits, butlashes with Wet noodles for me!!!

Churadogs said...

Anonymous said: "This thing started in the early 70's.
Either you issue an edict or you don't. In 1983 an official edict was given. 23 years later you're going to finally lay down the hammer? All the while, no remedial actions have either taken place or been required to marginalize whatever it is we're doing until a permanent solution is in place. I think the people in position to enforce these actions should all be fired for not doing their job. When I moved here 35 years ago, my friends an I would take our dogs swimming at the sweet springs ponds. Oh how they loved to 'swan dive' into the ponds retrieving sticks. It's the turtles property now. What do you suppose would be the penalty nowadays, Public Lynching?"

I couldn't agree with you more. During the ACL hearing, Roger Brigs (RWQCB CEO) was under oath and was asked, again and again and again, timeline after timeline, "What did you do then?"(i.e. CDO's? Fines? What??) Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing . . . until hours before the recall election was certified . . .

The really sad thing is that residents were calling for a Septic Management District to be formed even BEFORE the CSD was started. County did nothing. After the CSD was delayed, people called for forming a Septic Managment District while futzing around on a sewer plan. NO. Instead of active encouragemnet of pilot, certified-elsewhere, innovative onsite treatment systems, (all of which very probably would have REDUCED nitrate loads as much as the mad pumping scheme Briggs is proposing) the RWQCB threw rocks in the road. The letter authorizing the (pilot) installation of the Pirhana system was sent to former General Manager Buel but apparently was not shared with the full board or the public.(At the same ACL hearing, Buel testified four times that the Time Schedule Order the CSD was laboring under was "unreasonable." Imagine if we had had a saner Regional Board, so many interim measures could have been put in place that would have bought us TIME to work through so many problems caused by the "unreasonable" time schedule order) Over the years, many citizens asked repeatedly about Dr. Alexander's onsite system, for example, but were met with what I can only describe as the RWQCB's Looney philosophy of: Invest tons of money in a system, install it, THEN we'll tell you whether or not we'll allow it. Huh? In short, if we had had an innovate RWQCB, I know the citizens of this community would have been investigating al kinds of ways to mitigate nitrates AND been working on a sewer system to boot. But Nooooooo.... That's the real tragedy of what's happened here.

Shark Inlet said...

Is that really your argument ... that the RWQCB should have been far harsher years ago?

This is like someone who gets a few warnings for speeding complaining when they get their first ticked "well, if I had been given a ticket last time I would have not been speeding this time ... it is the CHP's fault that I was speeding."

The TSO which was "unreasonable" was going to be enforced whether reasonable or not if we stopped making progress but it was not going to be enforced at all if there were issues beyond the control of the CSD that prevented progress. We made a choice, a stupid choice, to stop the construction.

The funny thing here would seem to be that many Los Osos residents seem to forget that they've been dumping 365M gallons of partially treated sewage directly into the ground every year since the prohibition on discharges started. After enough warnings that were ignored the RWQCB decided to act in a way which might get the attention of those in the PZ. However, one can look at the CDOs as an extension (until 2010) to get our problem fixed. They did not actually require us yet to stop all discharges as they could have. They've limited pumping costs to about what we would have been paying had we made progress with a TriW plant.

The Pilot Pirhana system is so that we can collect data which can be used later by individuals outside the PZ should they later be required to use some sort of onsite system that does a better job than a septic tank and leach field.

Why does anyone out there think that the RWQCB will allow Pirhanas as a solution for those inside the PZ? They've sent a letter recently to Dan that shows they will not approve of such devices as longterm solutions and suggesting the cost of such a system is so high that one would probably not want to consider it as a short-term solution.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

The RWQCB should not be asked to foot the bill for testing the many, many systems that are out on the market. The are within their rights to assess the results once a system has been tested however.

Maybe if the COMMUNITY had been more pro-active and just tried out some systems the county would have felt that it was serious about septic management. But I can't see this community being the Trail Blazer to research a bunch of systems, BUY a few, and then test them. It COSTS too much! The whole concept of COST for ANYTHING is what has been the roadblock to getting ANYTHING done here. I'm not sure if it comes from actually being broke or just a feeling of entitlement.

Buel just got squeezed at the tail end of the TIME mess. What part of twenty years to get something done doesn't seem like enough time?

Anonymous said...

Great two most recent posts by Shark and Sewertoons!

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Thank you Anonymous. I just feel sad that there are so many odd-thinking individuals that need to blame other entities rather than looking at what they could have done to solve the problem. Theoretically, if we are over 25 or so, we are grown-up, and can take responsibility for our own actions - or in this case inactions. I remember when I was a kid I would try to get away with stuff and sometimes I did. But when I grew up, I realized that the penalties for trying to get away with stuff were a whole lot worse than being grounded. I had to put away that "magical thinking..."

Churadogs said...

Inlet said:"Why does anyone out there think that the RWQCB will allow Pirhanas as a solution for those inside the PZ? They've sent a letter recently to Dan that shows they will not approve of such devices as longterm solutions and suggesting the cost of such a system is so high that one would probably not want to consider it as a short-term solution."

I asked the designer of the Piranah system if his data (from other installations) showed that the sytem, even with its eyes closed so to speak, could result in a 25% reduction in nitrates at the leach field and he said, oh, sure. So, at $4,000 to install, divided out until 2010 - 15 or whenever it's ready to roll and we can hook up to the sewer plant, the Piranah comes out to be cheaper per month than pumping, plus it doesn't destroy your leach field the way pumping will. So, as an alternative, if the RWQCB wants an inerim solution that doesn't remove gazillions of gallons of water from the watershed, or doesn't destroy leach field thereby making pollution worse, not better, why not waive their $900 a year discharge permit fee (entirely doable if they wish to, they already have the data on the Piranha and it meets their 20 - 22% temporary goal), people could install the sytem, the whole prohibition zone would get 25% or better nitrate reduction and then when the new sewer comes on line, everyone pulls out thier Piranhas, we hook up to the sewer and we all go on our merry way, far cheaper than pumping and far less destructive to the environment. This is entirely doable IF the RWQCB wishes to see real nitrate reduction until the sewer gets built.