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Tuesday, April 15, 2008

Quick, Maudie, Git Them Goal Posts Moved, Agin,' Or,
Ah, Yes, But Who Sez The Numbers Mean Anything? I Can Set The Numbers At, Oh, Let Me Think, Ummm, How’s About ZERO?

From Tom Murphy of AES “Reclamator.” Boink. One tennis ball in Roger Briggs' yard. Now, let’s see those goal posts moved again, zip! Zoom! No, the meaning of Is is. Nuh-huh, it’s not, is so, is . . . ..



Mark,

A “discharge” is “a discharge of waste” or “a discharge of a pollutant”. NOTE: The term “discharge” when used without qualification within the wastewater industry means “discharge of a pollutant” or “discharge of pollutants” unless otherwise qualified such as for example: “discharge of water” or “discharge of harvest water” or “discharge of reclamate”.

The Water Board ONLY has authority over “wastewater discharges, i.e. discharges of waste/pollutants”. Once a constituent is demonstrated to be less than the determined “Effluent Limit” in regard to such constituent, the Water Board no longer have any authority over such “discharge of water”.

What is the Effluent Limit for the LO PZ?
7 mg/l Nitrogen (which means Total Nitrogen) for “subsurface” reuse.
2.2 fecal coliform / hundred milliliters for “surface” or “direct” reuse.

What determines a “discharge”? Answer: A level of a constituent having an established “Effluent Limit” exceeding such established Effluent Limit is a “discharge”, i.e. in the LO PZ 9 mg/l is a “discharge” (not suitable for a beneficial reuse application) and 6 mg/l isn’t a “discharge” (suitable for a beneficial reuse applicaton). Any “regulator” who argues otherwise is ignorant of the law and their (“Effluent”) limit of their authority.

Water quality of less than 7 mg/l TN is “harvest water” (not a discharge) suitable for “subsurface beneficial reuse” applications.
Indirect potable reuse (USEPA term for a beneficial reuse application)
Surface irrigation (a beneficial reuse application)

Water quality of less than 2.2 fecal coliform (Title 22) is “reclamate” (not a discharge) suitable for “surface beneficial reuse” applications.
Toilet flushing
Irrigation
Car washing
Clothes washing
Showers
NOT INTENDED FOR DRINKING

Conclusion: The RECLAMATOR complies with the LO PZ established Effluent Limits.

The RECLAMATOR has been demonstrated (by a Nationally/Internationally recognized third party testing laboratory) to achieve TN of 4 mg/l (average). This is well below the LO PZ established Effluent Limit of 7 mg/l TN (average). The Water Board (and all other state environmental protection authorities):

Must stop allowing “discharge permits” being issued (has been required since 12/27/77) allowing any lesser or inferior technology (not equal) to discharge toxic pollutants into state waters
Based upon this “demonstrated” control possibility of the RECLAMATOR is obligated to “require and to assist” in the application of it as the best available demonstrated control technology (BADCT)
Has no authority over the RECLAMATOR’s discharge of water as it achieves a “non-enforceable public health standard”
Must expediently promulgate its availability and its required application within the LO PZ AND throughout their jurisdiction per their fiduciary duty under law
Must promulgate the new national standard of performance to be specified by brand name (RECLAMATOR) or equal, based upon its demonstrated performance, to serve each and every pollution abatement application within their jurisdiction
Must require all point source discharges within their jurisdiction, as expediently as practicable, comply with the new national standard of performance upon any failure, change of ownership or new source establishment having a sewer pipe coming from such new source
Is subject to criminal violation under federal law for “knowingly” refusing to administer under their fiduciary duty in the interest of public health, to eliminate the discharge of toxic source pollutants into the drinking water aquifers of California (nation).

Note: Federal statutes to support each statement is available upon request.
--end--



O.K. if The RWQCB has set a TN of 7 mg/l for the Los Osos PZ, and I presume the county plans for a community sewer the discharge of the treated wastewater (needed to reverse salt water intrusion and return the water to recharge the aquifer) is likely governed by that number, and IF the Reclamtor meets or gets under that number (and meets or gets under all the other numbers, coliform counts, BODs etc.) then the RWQCB had better hurry up and pass a new resolution moving the "discharge" number to ZERO, which will throw the County's community plan into a tizzy since they won't be able to "discharge" anything up on Broderson. Oh, dear. And if the RWQCB doesn't reset the TN of 7 then they'll have to 'splain why they'll be giving a discharge permit to the county to discharge TN 7 but won't give a discharge permit to the Reclamator if it discharges TN4.

Please 'splain, please. (email Posted with permission)



50 comments:

Rick said...

Again, that's all fine and dandy except that the state has general powers over groundwater, even if the RWQCB may not.

The County itself can expand on these regulations if it wants, too.

Show me a permit. Until then, I don't think Los Osos should be the Guinea Pig for this corporation's profits.

Watershed Mark said...

This "bears(osos)" repeating:
I'm interested in how the QCB3 justifies permitting a leaky polluting sewer in a PZ.
Any leakage would contain nitrate in excess of the 7 mg/l limit.
As a citizen I ask, how is that "permittable"?

Over and over ad nauseam.

Watershed Mark said...

But it's ok to be QCB's Guinea Pig, Rick?

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

Why all the fussing? The RWQCB has authority over Los Osos and AES does not. If you would like to practice business here, you should demonstrate to the RWQCB that your device will be sufficient as a sole method for treating wastewater.

Note ... neither you nor Tom have offered evidence that somehow 7 is a magic number that defines clean versus discharge. The TriW discharge permit allowed a discharge of up to 7 at the Broderson site ... however it is still considered a discharge. If you want your devices to be allowed, you need discharge permits for them which will require regular testing and reporting. Are you willing? How much will the package deal cost? Have you proven your device to work?

Watershed Mark said...

The people themselves, and not their servants, can safely reverse their own deliberate decisions.
Abraham Lincoln

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark is ABOVE testing!!! He has the WRECKLAMATOR on his side!!!! His assumptions just automatically pass into LAW!!!!!

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark says:
"The RECLAMATOR has been demonstrated (by a Nationally/Internationally recognized third party testing laboratory) to achieve TN of 4 mg/l (average)"

Yeah, for six months under mystery conditions listed in pages 2-51. Nothing self-evident there, it remains conspicuously cloaked from prying eyes.

Unknown said...

Depends on YOUR definition of "Truth".

The Reclamator is still in a stage of conjecture with YOUR personal assumptions and NO EMPIRICAL data to support a conclusive hypothesis.

There are many steps and hurdles before your simplistic view of Truth will be accepted as that view is NOT universally accepted as anything but YOUR own personal emotional feelings that the reclamator will actually work.

Right now, all that is on the table is a sales pitch with no verifiable, repeatable, scientific data from a series of controlled tests to prove or disprove the throughput value and relibility of the open ended filter device. We are not disputing the possibility that the reclamator will work, just that there is no proof.

While a conventional gravity sewer may be offensive to some members of this community, there is much more known reliability in a conventional modern collection and treatment system.

Unknown said...

Ann -

I'm being bothered by reruns. We've heard the same thing from the Reclamator guys over and over.

The law requires Reclamator use nation wide. People who install the devices qualify for generous Federal grants. Public agencies must pay for the Reclamator output.

The problem with these arguments is that they aren't backed by proof. Something that would be a real benefit would be to ask Mark and Tom for substantiation of their assertions and not publish another repeat of the same. I'd really be interested in learning if a Federal agency is imposing Reclamator use on the nation, if any customer has received a federal grant or has sold their Reclamator output to a public agency.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

prefix528, welcome back.

Mark and Tom only do repeats. And they won't answer questions. Do you think these Wrecklamator dudes would be acting so desperate here in dinky, little Los Osos if any of this had gone successfully in the place they came from? I've tried to find out if they have tried this business elsewhere, but they won't answer.

It is all just wishful thinking on their parts. Maybe if a gullible few bought some Wrecklamators they would have enough money to leave town on. That is my wishful thinking.

Watershed Mark said...

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams

Watershed Mark said...

The right of a nation to kill a tyrant in case of necessity can no more be doubted than to hang a robber, or kill a flea.
John Adams

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, is this a veiled recommendation for murder as a solution?

Watershed Mark said...

Toons:
Of course not murder is a capital crime.
The point of using "old words" is to give the reader perspective sorely needed in this situation we find ourselves.

I do not believe in using women in combat, because females are too fierce.
Margaret Mead

Watershed Mark said...

For the very first time the young are seeing history being made before it is censored by their elders.
Margaret Mead

Watershed Mark said...

Understanding "The BioRealm" helps to illustrate the genius of what Tom has invented.

His "appliance" makes it possible to put nature to work as never seen before, without grinders and headworks which are required with a leaky centralized sewer system.

Discharge of Nitrogen is what is driving the need for septic tank replacement.

Subject: The BioRealm see http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Microbial_Biorealm


Click Here: Check out "Microbial Biorealm - MicrobeWiki"

This site is worth a bookmark, or printout. I did both.

Could you identify Nitorosomonas? It converts Ammonia to Nitric Oxide, the essential first stage in the Nitrifying/Denitrifying process. Bacteria which live by chemical conversion are called Chemoautotrophic.
beta Protobacteria Nitrosomonas
beta Protobacteria are all aerobic, chemotrophic single celled plants. The ones we like to be healthy in our aerobic basins are close cousins to the ones that cause Gonorrhea and Meningitis.

Denitrification, converting the Nitric Oxide to Nitrogen Gas is the job of Pseudomonas bacteria, specifically the Gamma strain. These are the recyclers of the World, completing the Carbon, Sulfur and Nitrogen cycling. They also are pathogens. But specifically we need to promote conditions for denitrification and the best way to do this is with Biofilms in less than saturated oxygen conditions. Activated Sludge is one of these biofilms, but there are better ones now that do not decompose or get washed out. If you examine the biofim in your basin, most of the living bacteria will be Gamma Proteobacteria that look like this.
Gamma Proteobacteria
In Nature these bacteria have a short life span and biofilters allow them to Colonize rather than being washed out of the system. They are not supposed to work in the Clarifier, but in the Biological Basin.

Organic Carbon Removal is accomplished by a variety of bacteria and protozoa. In Aerobic conditions
organic carbon is converted into Carbon Dioxide. In Anaerobic conditions, organic carbon is converted into Methane.

Some of the reactions have names of those who discovered them, such as Diels-Alder, Friedel-Crafts. Grignard, Wold-Kirschnuer, Clemmenson and Wittig. Not all the TOC Removal reactions are by living things, some stages may be purely chemical. Some may even be environmental. Many are accomplished by catalytic or enzymic reactions. All life depends upon Carbon and Liebig's Law may determine which reactions are occurring at the moment and in which stages.

The efficiency of the Activated Sludge process depends upon Lysis, or cell decay when insoluble carbon compounds become soluble in the sludge and available for organic decomposition. This is why long sludge age -- hopefully with mechanical augmentation, results in less waste sludge production.

Watershed Mark said...

Sewers or septic tanks, who needs them?

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

Nothing you've quoted here, whether Margaret Mead or some dead president or a Wiki actually shows your reclamator device to be anything that would help our town in the long run.

You have yet to justify the time you've spent here and the time the rest of us have spent trying to make sense of your claims.

Fancy quotes and misinterpretations of government documents are not the same thing as data or proof.

If I mail you a new Okalahoma quarter, would you be willing to go to RiteAid and buy a clue?

Watershed Mark said...

Shark wrote: misinterpretations of government documents...
WM says: If you say so.

The law is reason, free from passion. The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet. Nature does nothing in vain.
Aristotle

Watershed Mark said...

Toons wrote: Yeah, for six months under mystery conditions listed in pages 2-51. Nothing self-evident there, it remains conspicuously cloaked from prying eyes.

WM says: Careful Toons, your statement seems to suggest that the NSF testing protocol may be somehow suspect. I will again suggest that you seek to get a copy of the report that is so important to you from your government. Once you understand protocol you should be pleasantly surprised. When you can find someone you respect with whom to discuss process design and biological process you'll be better equipped to understand the "RECLAMATOR".

All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.
Winston Churchill

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

No mark, you are misreading what I wrote. There is nothing at all suspect about NSF testing, just YOUR reluctance to let us see what the report says on pages 2-51. There is NO PROTOCOL that prevents YOU from releasing that report. YOU are suspect in holding us up, there is nothing sneaky about releasing the NSF report, it is easy for you to do. I should not have to go to some government source to get it when you, right here, have the report and refuse to release it.

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

The reason pages 2-51 matter is that they (should) explain the conditions under which the testing occurred and from that we could see whether they are similar to the conditions in Los Osos. Asking us to extrapolate from an unknown testing context to what we really face here today is asking a lot. Simply put, it is not scientific.

Watershed Mark said...

When nitrogen reduction has been achieved BOD and TSS levels will correspond accordingly.

If and when you ever understand Biological Nutrient Removal (BNR) "process" my statements should make more sense to you.

One purpose of the "ask government" exercise is to have the State demonstrate to the people that it has the report. When that is understood we can proceed to the next step. First things first.

How am I "holding you up"? The LOSTDEP RECLAMATOR Solution continues on step.
So does the county's consulting engineer's study of leaky polluting sewerage and failure prone treatment works.

How is your study of "C26" and Porter-Cologne going?
Are you any closer to getting or wanting to get, that leaky pipe/plant failure county/state "data" yet?

Watershed Mark said...

Shark:
Get help.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, what part about our asking for the missing report pages do YOU NOT GET?

I will not fulfill some purpose of YOURS by asking the government for that report. That is just an absurd fantasy. You are HERE and I am asking YOU. It is YOUR REPORT.

Why would anyone WANT to withhold information that that you claim will make people want to participate and support you? Why? Is there something in it you DON'T want us to see?

*PG-13 said...

ShedHead said > Over and over ad nauseam.

This is hopeless. I know I'm not the only one to feel the futility because many others (nearly all of you at one time or another) have expressed exactly the same thing. What amazes me most though is how we keep coming back for more. More of the same. Forever, always more of the same. More frustration. More aggravation. More punishment. No, I'm not talking about the sewer - in all its multi-splendered magnificent craziness - I'm talking about trying to communicate with watershed mark. Clearly, he just doesn't get it. I mean, how many times must he be told by how many different people that he is a bore? OK, being a bore isn't a sin. But being a bore - over and over and over again - despite repeated requests and pleas and suggestions to either make sense or leave is a form of blog abuse. Most blog abuse consists of bad language and/or inappropriate behavior beyond the ken of common decency. Thankfully this blog - by virtue of some odd kind of self-respect - tends away from such failings. And when it doesn't Ann does a pretty good job of monitoring. Topics get heated, disagreement exists, even some name calling - these are the way of blogs. But is abuse ever so, uh, abusive as watershed mark and his super-dooper Wrecklamator?

That I'm even writing this makes me uncomfortable. I'm a believer in blogs. And some relaxed latitude is necessary for blogs to succeed. And .. Mark .. is .. civil. Of a sort. So why do I find him so aggravating? I think it is because I really and truly want the Reclamator to succeed. I believe a Reclamator-like device is not only a good idea on very many levels but that it holds promise to be a huge benefit to the environment and our lives. Not just here but many other places as well. And I wish the best Usable control technology to be used in Los Osos. Not best available Demonstratable technology. But something that is proven will work. Something we can actually install - asap - and expect to be solution to our problems for a long time. In concept and on paper The Reclamator holds such promise. Yet, whenever asked a simple direct question regarding its proven effectiveness, its measured efficiency or history of prior installations Tom Murphy and his loyal sidekick ShedHead consistently return evasive mis-directed responses. The only actual fact they are willing to share is that their device was tested once against one NSF standardized test. The Wrecklamator is being pushed as best current demonstrable technology based upon one standardized test. The results of which AES refuses to publish despite many requests to do so. (The test results are their property so that's their choice.) They say the data will be presented to the appropriate people when it suits their strategic needs. Hence the phrase - "demonstrated" control possibility of the RECLAMATOR. Based upon this demonstration they propose to redefine "discharge" so the Wrecklamator will qualify as a permitable on-site treatment option.

None of this is grounds for concern or aggravation unless one is actually interested in the Wrecklamator succeeding OR if one is worried that the AES gyrations (and threatened suits) will further delay ANY pollution mitigation and water recharge solution. I don't think anybody really wants big pipes unless further delay creates still more pollution, salt-water intrusion AND EXPENSE.

Most people, when accused of selling snake oil would try to justify their product. Most people, when accused of being a snake oil salesman would try to legitimize their sales pitch. Selling snake oil doesn't seem to be any concern to AES, Tom Murphy or Mark Low. Indeed, they seem to relish selling snake oil. They are committed to a product strategy based on subtle legal ploys of administrative process. Not on the actual merits of the product. As much as I may wish for a Reclamator-type product to succeed I'm inclined to conclude that the AES strategy is going to mean more delay, more expense, and more aggravation.

Los Osos, ya gotta love it!

Shark Inlet said...

PG ...

I agree 100% with your sentiment.

I, too, think that the reclamator claims are very promising .... if usable. I would like the majority of Los Osos to be able to utilize their wastewater for irrigation, thus dramatically reducing the draw from our aquifers.

The only thing that I would add is this ... a snake oil salesman, when accused of selling snake oil, would deny it yet not offer any proof that their medicine does any good ... instead they would use various rhetorical techniques to distract the casual reader from the fact that their medical claims are undocumented.


Bonus points for honesty and insight. Full marks!

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Watershed Mark said...
Toons wrote: information that that you claim will make people want to participate and support you?

Toons...cut and paste my words you use to support your claim. (Like Shark...I didn't think so)

The LOSTDEP RECLAMATOR Solution continues on step:)

Watershed Mark said...

Thoyteen:

Everything that is required by law to provide LO/BP with the septic tank discharge solution is in the engineering report located on our homepage.
I understand your frustration, it's just directed at the wrong party.

AES DES RECLAMATOR Solution is the quickest and best way to cease the septic tank discharges while providing "no charge" reuse water at a fraction of the cost of a sewer.
No "out of control/unaccountable public works project" and the costs associated with building, operating and maintaining it. Energy and carbon footprint benefits, no Native American Burial site disturbance.

Gee, I wonder why so few are interested?

Fortunately the law is clear.
As more sand falls through the hourglass the view of this will be better.

I know that everyone who writes "the RECLAMATOR doesn't work or needs more proof" are well meaning, but sadly ignorant.
Soon everyone will have lots and lots to talk about.

I love L.O.:) WE LOVE IT!

Watershed Mark said...

Shark:
Facts are stubborn things.
The RECLAMATOR "is" working in LO/BP as reported in the engineering report.

Perhaps you will accept the next invitation to tour it.
We'll all be better off when you and others get some solid foundation regarding our technology.

Unknown said...

Mark, just what are the physical dimensions of a "standard" Reclamator?

Assume a 4 person household in a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house.

I'm quite concerned about the size, length,width and depth, of the excavation needed to install the "appliance".

Watershed Mark said...

Thoyteen:

I forgot to mention the monthly service charge of $45.75 a month and is tied to the consumer price index.
I don't think government can offer that good a price, they aren't in business to make a profit, so why should they. The want "sewer (thanks toons) shlubs"

Government pays out entitlements based on CPI but does not guarantee by contract what it will charge by contract.

Government is not the solution to the problem, government is the problem...frustrating, I know.

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

We ... as a group ... remain unclear on why you insist we cut-n-paste your own words back to you to prove what we say but refuse to provide us information at your fingertips which we've requested and will in part justify some of your claims here. Such a position tends to only be adopted by people who are opposed to the spread of knowledge (like those in cults and those trying to sell products with questionable and unsubstantiated benefit).

Your claim that your homepage contains all info necessary people to want to sign up for your service is belied by the fact that several here have been requesting information from you. Simply put, your homepage offers promises and evidence which is not sufficient for people to know that you are offering a real solution for our community.

That you say we are ignorant about your method is irrelevant. What is patently clear is that you are ignorant about the scientific method. Simply put, we would like to see proof that the machine actually works for many years in conditions like we here in Los Osos are facing. You've not offered us any evidence. My stating this does not show I am ignorant. I am simply stating a fact; that you don't have a long-run data set which demonstrates your claim.

Yes, Mark, facts are stubborn things. So is data ... and data sufficient to justify your claims has not been provided. If you machine works, great! I would love these devices to work as claimed. They would save money and help the environment. The sad thing, however, is that no one knows whether they do really work for us, even if you might claim otherwise. Simply put, you've got to try it for multiple years for multiple homes to see if there will be a long-run benefit to the community and to see what sort of failure rate might be experienced.

Again, perhaps you ought to take a class at Custa or Poly about data analysis and what constitutes proof. You seem to be rather confused on this matter.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark says:
"Perhaps you will accept the next invitation to tour it. We'll all be better off when you and others get some solid foundation regarding our technology."

So how is looking at the Wrecklamator supposed to give one a solid foundation? You have some DIFFERENT sales pitch than the one you repeat here endlessly? Is THAT what is supposed to make us want to support you? Are you nuts?

mark says:
"Gee, I wonder why so few are interested?"

Get a clue! Read this blog carefully as to what we ask of you and you will not provide. Bingo! Your answer!

Wear that snake oil mantle proudly, mark. It fits you to a T.

*PG-13 said...

mike said > Mark, just what are the physical dimensions of a "standard" Reclamator? Assume a 4 person household in a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house. I'm quite concerned about the size, length, width and depth, of the excavation needed to install the "appliance".

Now this is another line questioning which - hopefully - may receive more direct response than the dozens of other questions which have been repeated, to quote ShedHead, "ad nauseam" but are never answered. One can presume such basic installation and operating questions, ones not based on any standards testing or related to product performance should be willingly answered by AES. Assuming they know. I too would like to know this basic siting and operations info. In addition to Mike's questions I would like to know:

Where is the Reclamator typically placed on the lot? In most installations I imagine the Reclamator will simply replace existing septic tanks. Are there any other installation issues? What if there is not sufficient space to place the Reclamator at the preferred location? What other siting options are there? Can it placed on (or near) lot lines, utility and public right-of-ways, etc? Are there already codes which address Reclamator siting or will existing codes need to be modified? How long does it take to remove a septic and install a Reclamator? Can a Reclamator be placed under water or within coastal sub-surface water zones? Are there thermal operating parameters that need to be maintained? If so, how are these maintained?

What does the control panel look like, where will it typically be located, and how often will it need to be used to control the appliance? Is the homeowner responsible for this or is the utility (AES) responsible? Is the Reclamator remote sensed or does it require scheduled maintenance inspection? Does the Reclamator require servicing? What kind and how often?

Is there any possibility of Reclamator failure? What happens then? And how might it fail?

shark inlet said > I would like the majority of Los Osos to be able to utilize their wastewater for irrigation, thus dramatically reducing the draw from our aquifers.

I'm still a little confused. AES seems to be making a big deal about how the discharge of a Reclamator can be used on-site for everything except drinking. So, how is this done? How is the discharge re-cycled to on-site use?

I presume some of the answers to some of these questions have been discussed in passing before. But I've never actually seen (or heard of) a Reclamator Installation and Operations Manual. Or seen this kind of detail documented or even described. And Mark, please don't insult us again by saying it is all documented here and pointing to a site that has little or no relevance to the questions being asked. It is your product. Please either give us precise links (remember, I taught you how to do that) or write direct answers. And if it is still too early in product development to answer these questions just say so. Some of that is to be expected. But a best guess answer - noted as such - is still far more informative than your typical stonewalling.

Thanking you advance for any such information about the Reclamator you can provide.

Churadogs said...

Watershed mark sez:"This "bears(osos)" repeating:
I'm interested in how the QCB3 justifies permitting a leaky polluting sewer in a PZ.
Any leakage would contain nitrate in excess of the 7 mg/l limit.
As a citizen I ask, how is that "permittable"?

Over and over ad nauseam."

It's not permittable. You wait until a big enough leak is discovered, you guestimate the gazillions of gallons of sewage that has been "illegally discharged" then you "fine the community out of existence," (money going to the RWQCB), repair that particular leak, wait until the next leak, repeat. It's a guaranteed moneymaker. (see CMC's "spills".) No "permit" required.

PG 13 sez:"This is hopeless. I know I'm not the only one to feel the futility because many others (nearly all of you at one time or another) have expressed exactly the same thing. What amazes me most though is how we keep coming back for more. More of the same. Forever, always more of the same. More frustration. More aggravation. More punishment. No, I'm not talking about the sewer - in all its multi-splendered magnificent craziness - I'm talking about trying to communicate with watershed mark."

This Dog On A Bone compulsion by many of this blog's readers has been so fascinating. Sorta like addicted mice constantly hitting that cocaine-administering lever, boink, boink, boink, same old, same old, until they all die from exhaustion. Interesting. I write a column about major issues, for example, and there's ZERO comment on the issues mentioned, but just the same old boink, boink, boink, it's back to did so/did not/did so, neener, neener, neener reclamator/sewer is so/is not, boink, boink, boink.

Two points: My mommy told me long ago when confronted with a bore or an annoying personage to simply ignore him/her, don't respond to the taunts or wheedles or barks. Change the subject, don't respond, don't engage.

Second point belongs to Watershed Mark who sez:" I know that everyone who writes "the RECLAMATOR doesn't work or needs more proof" are well meaning, but sadly ignorant.
Soon everyone will have lots and lots to talk about."

End of discussion: Soon everyone will have lots and lots to talk about, so until that time, there's no need to keep hitting that little cocaine lever. The comment section of this blog is open to all (well, almost all) providing people mind their manners. Some of you often get into pretty wonderful discussions about all sorts of other things. There's lots to talk about. I'll start posting more poems, got another column coming up that's not about the sewer. World of stuff happening out there. New Pope's visiting, the same guy who, as a pre-pope, wrote a memo to say the church should protect child molesting priests for the samek of the curch -- not the kids. Shouldn't that sort of thing be viewed as aiding and abetting a crime?, but we read not a peep about that. All's forgiven, except for the kids, of course. Yep, lots to discuss.

Whatever Mark's up to will become clear -- one way or the other -- in the future. So, let's all wait and see. County's clanking along with what they're doing, the community has a responsibility to stay informed, each homeowner will make their own critical decisions and if they're misinformed or conned or lied to by whoever, they'll pay a fearesome price -- again -- but that's all out of my hands. I'm not Empress del Mundo, alas and dang!

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE: RECLAMATOR Technology can be installed in many configurations and materials and for residential is typically a 1,500 gallon "vessel".. We will fit every application in LO/BP. If you are really interested I can have someone come out and give you an exact answer for your homesite.

Shark wrote: We ... as a group ... remain unclear on why you insist we cut-n-paste your own words back to you to prove what we say ...

WM says: When "the group" writes statements that are not mine but attempt to attribute them to me, the only remedy is to expose the writer by demonstrating through a "cut-n-paste" request that they are incorrect in their assertions. "Anonymice" need to be held accountable whenever possible.

Shark wrote: Your claim that your homepage contains all info necessary people to want to sign up for your service ...

WM says: Here we go again...Please cut-n-paste my words that you used to make the assertion. I didn't think so...

Most "People" want government permission to eliminate their discharge i.e. QCB3 /County "permits". Most people do not have the requisite foundation to understand, much less choose a BADCT solution. The website is a world class ground breaking place where our information is on display and downloadable to the world's "industry society". The information is on our website is mostly esoteric, so don't feel badly that you don't "get it".
The RECLAMATOR Technology is a disruptive technology and I trust that there are some out there who understand what that represents to the current paradigm and to them personally.

NOwastewater shifts the "power to the people" which is something government may be having a little difficulty accepting,at the moment.
We understand what need be done in order to eliminate the septic tank discharges and to provide no charge beneficial reuse water via the shortest length of purple pipe possible.

The public works paradigm and the money the governments hope to make on projects will cease because of technology and the law which supports its use.
This is what is "going on" for those who don't understand, it looks different than what those might be expecting.

You are literally watching history being made.

Watershed Mark said...

The RECLAMATOR is "pretreatment" required by federal law whether there is a sewer or not.
"You gotta have, we take of it, you just flush your toilet"...

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode33/usc_sec_33_00001316----000-.html
§ 1316. National standards of performance
(a) Definitions
For purposes of this section:
(1) The term “standard of performance” means a standard for the control of the discharge of pollutants which reflect the greatest degree of effluent reduction which the Administrator determines to be achievable through application of the best available demonstrated control technology, processes, operating methods, or other alternatives, including, where practicable, a standard permitting no discharge of pollutants.

13, Have the 531 agreement located @ http://www.nowastewater.com/documents/section15_miscellaneous.pdf beginning on page 39, lets talk.

*PG-13 said...

Hi all. My name is *PG-13. And I'm a boinker. I haven't boinked for 2 hours and 48 minutes.

Thanks Ann. I am so glad to know it is my drug habit causing my annoyance ;-) Why didn't I think of that? Go figure. I'd write more but that would just be more boink, boink, boinking.

> My mommy told me long ago when confronted with a bore or an annoying personage to simply ignore him/her, don't respond to the taunts or wheedles or barks. Change the subject, don't respond, don't engage.

Mommy wisdom. My mommy said pretty much the same thing. And, like you, I remembered that lesson. I tried going cold turkey over the last few weeks and, up until a few days ago, life was good. And then I fell off the wagon and started hitting that lever again. Boink, boink, boink ...... gotta boink! The lever does provide at least a little temporary relief to existential angst. Isn't that what blogging is all about? Still, I think you are on to something. Temporary relief is only temporary. I want so much more from my blogging. So, with the help of all of you, I'm gonna go cold turkey again. I'll lurk but not boink. Please, if you catch me boinking call me out. TIA.

Watershed Mark said...

Under your skin...

Blogging+Marketing=Blogeting ;-)

Watershed Mark said...

I decided that it was not wisdom that enabled poets to write their poetry, but a kind of instinct or inspiration, such as you find in seers and prophets who deliver all their sublime messages without knowing in the least what they mean.
Socrates

Churadogs said...

PG-13 sez:"Hi all. My name is *PG-13. And I'm a boinker. I haven't boinked for 2 hours and 48 minutes. "

Hi, PG! hahahahahahah. I know, mon ami, it's tough keeping away from that little lever. Tough. . .toooouuuggghhhhh. . . errr, uh.. . . . aw dang! Boink!

Watershed Mark said...

But circumstances change on a daily sometmes hourly basis.
Where else can one go to get useful informsation and updates?

Harvey Packard has saidp; "I never said that the RECLAMATOR discharges Pollutants"...More tea, anyone?

Anonymous said...

Ann:

I have looked to see if what you have written about the alterations to water law is on the agenda of the BOS and find no reference or listing.

Did I miss something?

Mike Green, did you get my email on my house in Panama?

Anonymous said...

Will the reclamator people just publish the proof that their system works by an independent testing agency? What is so hard about this?

Just because they don't have to, does not mean that it works. I am getting really tired of all this.

As a matter of fact I am getting very bitter, and looking to guns and religion to give me solace now that I have been influenced by OBAMA.

Watershed Mark said...

To: Homeowners receiving RECLAMATORA in Los Osos, CA.
From: AES, Inc.

Re: Recycled water for surface reuse

Dear Homeowners,

Congratulations on identifying the savings of $10,000 - $50,000 (from the cost of a community collection system) by purchasing the RECLAMATORA, the RECLAMATORB with the UF 900 membrane. The RECLAMATORA will cost $15,000. Additional plumbing could cost $2,000 for toilet reflushing.

The RECLAMATOR membrane establishes that your surface reuse water needs no further treatment as a definite barrier has been created from pathogens which come from fecal coliform. The California Department of Public Health regulates surface recycled waters under Title 22 as filtered wastewater. AES, Inc. conforms to the under 2.2 mpn (Most Probable Number) per 100 milliliters of fecal coliform standard. The membrane, as a barrier to particulates, permits only 2 mpn of fecal coliforms. Should the membrane fail mechanically, AES, Inc. will know by electronic monitoring and a service technician responds to provide service and bring the system back online.

[1] Total nitrates on average 3.9 mg/l based on NSF Schedule 40 test in 1994 fitting the Central Coast Regional Water Quality Control Board’s approval of 7 mg/l as established in 2003 per the Tri-W site making the water recycled for subsurface applications.

[1] References to California Health Laws Related to Recycled Water, June 2001 Edition, Title 22. Section 60301.320 “Disinfected tertiary recycled water” defined, with reuses at 60307 as flushing toilets, structural firefighting, decorative fountains … See filtered wastewater 60301.320 as Reclamate is

[1] The test data from Creek Environmental Laboratories, Inc. is available online at www.nowastewater.com

http://www.nowastewater.com/data.html "Click on Creek Lab pdf.'

Jon: Can you point to any testing data or by an independent testing agency from the state, county or their consulting engineers, like the NSF?

I know everyone wants to see equal protection under the law...

Watershed Mark said...

Should read RECLAMATOR A - The finest in the land.

RECLAMATE. Do the right thing.

Anonymous said...

Water Mark,

Please explain the test results for coliform on your site. I see 17mpn (way over alowable limits) and also 2 mpn above it. Was the 2mpn from tap water and the 17mpn from what? I notice that there is no description as to the details of the test, where the water came from, who took the sample, etc.

Anonymous said...

Water Mark,

I also notice that there is no testing data included with the cover page of the NSF report.


You state:

"Jon: Can you point to any testing data or by an independent testing agency from the state, county or their consulting engineers, like the NSF?"

No, I have not! I think we need to get six firemen taking a pee and a crap in your toilet, then taking showers, and then do a controlled test on what ever you call it that comes out of your reclamator.

This would put this whole discussion to bed. I am sick of this. In addition, you are making other intelligent people sick of this. It is very hard to believe anything you say without real test results.

You could let your tap water run all day into your reclamator, and the results would come out like tap water.