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Sunday, February 22, 2009

Start Yer Sewer Engines, Part II

Comments below from an email from the Sustainability Group, some Los Osos citizens who have been monitoring and commenting on the county project. The County “survey” arrived in my mailbox today, and, as suspected, there are, alas, some critical things missing, like price comparisons between STEP and Gravity. And, of course, no OM&R comparisons, Yet, weirdly, the survey does ask people how much savings a month are they willing to consider to choose STEP without ever being told what STEP would cost in the first place. How is that question anything other than laughable? For example, if we had real-world costs between STEP & Gravity, including OM&R, costs that included some ball-park figures each homeowner could use to figure out if they would incur hi, med or low installation costs, then a valid question would be, “A STEP/STEG System would have to save me at least XXX $ a month to make it worthwhile.” But without that original price comparison, (plus some pretty good guestimates for installation costs) the question is utterly silly.

And for sheer weirdness, there’s a question asking what locations for the treatment facility site folks want and there, at the top of the list of choices, is “mid-town: aka Tri-W site” even though all the reports made it clear the county had no intention of putting the treatment plant there, that Tri-W came in dead last on the TAC report and Dr. T’s report, yet there it is. (Note that the Turri Road side or Pismo St. site and other sites aren’t listed at all.) So why is that proposed site there, except to serve as some sort of political CYA security blankie? Very strange.

Wait, it gets better. This survey asks residents for their income. You mean to tell me the County is close to building this massive public works project, has already made it clear which type of system they’ll pick and yet doesn’t already know the income levels in this town?

Then, the next question asks residence owners if they plan to apply for financial assistance for low or fixed income households without giving any kind of indication what constitutes “low or fixed income.” I could be on a “fixed” income of $10,000 a month. Would I qualify for financial assistance?

And, of course, there’s always the ever-present problem: If you present a choice between A or B and, uh, forget to mention C and folks vote for A or B, then later find out that C was always available, then what’s the problem? They had a vote, they had a choice and if it wasn’t C, so what? It was a vote.

And so it goes. Well, if you’ve been watching the Sewer Wars for a few years now, you know that this survey is primarily designed as a CYA measure. The Process must not only be done, but The Process must be SEEN to be done so that no challenges to The Process can be made. Even if a project has been already quasi, pre-selected (wink nudge), for a variety of reasons, (and, remember, Dr. T’s group noted that both gravity and STEP/SEG systems are equally viable, with the only differences being in the various Devils in the Details and the price) all the steps to this dance must be completed in proper order, whether really needed or not, because once every step is completed, The Process cannot be challenged, in court or out. If it is, a challenge, whether legal or political, can be easily quashed by pointing to the documentation of The Process -- reams of paper, taped meetings, written responses, brochures, questionaires – all the proper steps done in the proper order.

Well, the Sustainability Group (below) has some questions and opinions. I understand there will be a sewer review, presentation before the planning commission this Thursday, (?) (later post: still trying to track this down, may be on another date?, so don't show up until you check w/county), so anyone interested can attend and learn more, and I hope everyone will take the time to fill out this form and/or add any questions or comments of their own.

This will be the only chance the people of this community can speak now or forever hold their peace. After all, the folks who supported the recall and opposed Tri-W asked for three things: an “affordable” sewer system (i.e. cheaper than Tri-W), a treatment plant out of town, and a “vote”/ voice/choice in which system they wanted to buy. It’s that last option that is tricky. In a game of spin, fudge, omit, manipulate, nudge, overlook, garbage in/ garbage out, if they don’t pay close attention, their “choice” will be made for them, and if they’re not happy with that “choice,” too bad. It’ll be too late and they’ll get the bill.

But, at the end of the day, no matter how it plays out, the people of this community will end up with two out of the three requests, and if they’re really, really lucky, they might get close to the third. Two out of three? Not bad.

Meantime, the Office Pool is still on, only this time I think the only interesting number to wager on is this: What percentage of the community won’t even bother to return their survey?

From the Sustainability Group:

Los Osos' Affordable and Sustainable Options

Los Osos can have an affordable, proven, "shovel ready" waste water project right now. We can have a project which keeps people in their homes, (the EPA guidelines state that waste water costs should not exceed 2% of the median house hold income, that's about $80 per month for us), provides clean drinking water, recharges our aquifers, stops salt water intrusion and protects the bay. For a winning system, the Los Osos Sustainability Group recommends:
Collection System:
(70% of the project cost)
Choose anything other than gravity collection. Gravity collection involves digging trenches in the middle of the street which need to be shored up and de-watered. This takes time and money as the trench water must be cleaned before it can be disposed of. Gravity pipes are large and laid deep in the ground,(6 to 20 feet). These unsealed pipes inherently leak sewage, polluting our ground water. This system will require a dozen, energy intensive, lift stations each with it's own back up generator. Gravity's large pipes require constant maintenance in order to avoid clogs which cause spills. Cayucos, Pismo and San Luis Obispo's gravity collection systems have all spilled sewage in the past month and the CMC was recently fined again by the Water Board for their various problems.

Other technologies, Vacuum and STEP/STEG, are sealed, small diameter pipe systems, installed by horizontal boring along the side of the street at a depth of about 4 feet, (think arthroscopic surgery vs. traditional cutting). This is not only less expensive and less invasive, but in case of an earthquake, ruptures are less likely and much easier to repair, (After the Northridge earthquake it took 14 years to fix their gravity system.). Vacuum and STEP/STEG do not inherently leak, so they are protective of our groundwater. STEP/STEG, in the LOCSD's 2006 report, was estimated to be $100 less per month than the County's current Gravity projections. Comparable Vacuum collection projects have been built for even less than these STEP/STEG estimates.

Treatment:
Nature-based Nelson Air Diffusion System (ADS) or ECOFluid. Why choose one of these? Both systems utilize limited acreage, are low energy users, treat waste water to the highest quality,(tertiary), naturally and produce minimal sludge. Their cost is one half to one third of the secondary treatment the County is proposing. The County's options also produce large amounts of sludge which is a bio hazard. The County is suggesting we purchase more than 600 acres of prime agriculture land to accommodate their inferior system when ADS or ECOFluid would require a fraction of the resources while providing more benefits at a greatly reduced cost to the homeowner.
Site:
Out of town - Branin, Giacomazzi, or Cemetery. Tonini is outside of our water basin and may cause urban sprawl on LOVR.
Essential Elements:
A strong conservation element and agricultural exchange is a must. Using less water means the waste water treatment facility can be smaller. Conservation will help stop salt water intrusion, preserving the aquifers, and provide us with drinking water indefinitely. Twenty five percent conservation can be achieved using common high efficiency appliances, bought, installed and paid for through the project. Agricultural exchange means that instead of the farmers pumping our drinking water and using fertilizers to grow their crops, they will use our treated water. The bacteria in farm soil filter contaminants in ways that our sandy leach fields can't. Salinas implemented a similar program. They too had a water issues including salt water intrusion. Now their problems are solved because they utilized a holistic, integrated, sustainable approach. It is even Central Coast Water Board approved!

What's Wrong with the County's Plan:
Hybrid gravity is 95% conventional big pipe system and only 5% Vacuum collection. Bio-lac and oxidation ditches are expensive, large, mechanical energy users, producing unwanted sludge. Spray fields throw away water. Broderson means very limited basin recharge, possible liquefaction conditions and re-introduction of endocrine disputers, (Putting sewer effluent into your potable water source is a health hazard and the California PTA has a resolution against these bio accumulative toxins). The County's conservation element is very limited, only partially paid for by the project and will not solve our salt water intrusion issues. This "Environmentally Preferred" system is least sustainable for our community, economy, environment and comes with the biggest price tag.
Los Osos can have an affordable, environmentally friendly, sustainable waste water project. Choose one of the Los Osos Sustainability Group recommendations. If you don't see it on the survey ballot, please write it in.
Thank You

More Sewerish Comments:

Aaron Ochs has some comments on the recent Bill Garfinkle Viewpoint in the Tribune over at Ochs Nation at http://www.ochsnation.blogspot.com/.


Your Sunday Poem

by Andrea Cohen, from her new collection of poems, “Long Division.”

In A Haystack

A needle must feel
deeply needled, ill-
suited to its skin,
to leave its arrow-
straight ways,
to stray
into a haystack,
to mean to lose
or find itself
in that soft
tangle, to fill
its one good eye
with the gold
filament of pasture,
to imagine
itself pillow
to the weary,
supper to bell-necklaced goats.
A needle like that?
It would be
criminal even
to report
it missing.

126 comments:

Ron said...

Ann wrote:

"And for sheer weirdness, there’s a question asking what locations for the treatment facility site folks want and there, at the top of the list of choices, is “mid-town: aka Tri-W site” even though all the reports made it clear the county had no intention of putting the treatment plant there, that Tri-W came in dead last on the TAC report and Dr. T’s report, yet there it is."

What an embarrassment for the county.

Sometimes I feel sorry for SLO County Public Works Director, Paavo Ogren.

His allegiance to Nash-Karner -- because Nash-Karner, as vice-president of the LOCSD in 1999, HIRED Ogren to be her General Manager -- is, well, embarrassing.

And, here we are, 10 f-ing years later, and Ogren is STILL doing this crap:

"... at the top of the list of choices, is “mid-town: aka Tri-W site”

- - -
MEMO TO PAAVO OGREN: You see... there's this thing called the Internet, that has these things called blogs, where anyone can go and read stuff. And one of those blogs is called SewerWatch, and... uh, nevermind.
- -

Back on Nov. 20, 2006, I wrote a piece titled, Fourth Time's a Charm? The Stupidest Election Ever, at this link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2006/11/fourth-times-charm-stupidest-election.html

[Note: Back in 2006, Ogren was calling the current "survey," an "election," until, apparently, someone from the County's Council office got to him, and explained what a HUGE mistake it was to refer to it as an "election," so they all started calling it a "survey."]

And, in that piece, I write that if the Tri-W site is anywhere near that survey, it would be a complete embarrassment, all the way around.

(In that piece, one of my favorite highlights is this:

"How's this for a novel idea, Los Osos? Let wastewater engineers select the location for your wastewater plant, not voters that know little about things like percolation rates or liquefaction, and especially not Parks Commissioners -- especially not Parks Commissioners. I think we're ALL in agreement there, Parks Commissioners should not be selecting sewer plant locations."

... had to highlight that.)

If anyone goes and reads that piece (and I HIGHLY recommend that you do), please keep in mind the date that I published it -- late '06.

[Another note about that piece, you'll see that I say stuff like, "... wait until that election rolls around next Spring." At the time I wrote that piece, Ogren was saying the "survey," that hit Ann's mailbox last week, was going to be conducted in the Spring of '07... just missed it Paav.]

I have a question: If Nash-Karner is able to behavior-base-market, AGAIN, the people of Los Osos into supporting her cover-up, will County officials be constructing a picnic area, amphitheater, and tot lot in THEIR sewer plant?

They'll have to, if they plan on building Nash-Karner's cover-up.

And;

Will the county also needlessly, and illegally, override the entire environmental review process -- a process that pointed to downwind, out of town sites -- like Nash-Karner's CSD did, in order to put a picnic area in THEIR sewer plant?

I LOVE "election" time in Los Osos. It's the best.

[One last note: That link on the word "illegally," is absolutely saturated with excellent, primary sources, ALL of them dug up exclusively by SewerWatch, as usual.]

Cool poem, Ann.

TCG said...

As I recall, AB 2701 requires the County, if it chooses to go forward with construcing a sewer project, to also operate it. I beleive it allows for the possibility of transfering the ownership and operations responsibility to the CSD after at least three years. So, the County would be responsibile for this system and is obligated, on behalf of all of it's citizens, and particularly all of the property owners of Los Osos,to make the most responsible decisions it can regarding this project.

I support the County's stance at this point on it's preferred project option. I believe that the county is being responsible by leaning toward a type of project that is assured of getting the best possible financing, and is most probable to receive the required approval and support of the key regulatory agencies, i.e. the Regional Water Quality Control Board and the Coastal Commission.

These are the primary factors regarding the County's decision. Impartant, but clearly secondary to those factors, are the type of collection and treatment and the current and future compatibility with beneficial water processes.

If people are really interested in such things as the precise current pre-design cost estimates of one type of collection system vs. another, the County has produced volumes of analysis, and the TAC has reviewed and commented on those preliminary estimates. That information is there for the minor % of people who really want to analyze it.

I believe that the survey is written with the appropriate level of detail for the average property owner to understand and opine on, if they wish. Everyone knows that this is going to be incredibly expensive. The survey will give the County staff and the Board of Supervisors an indication as to what % of the respondents are, in fact, willing to pay an additional $20-$30 per month for an alternative system.

Of course the vocal minority of citizens who the County has heard from over the past year plus will complain about the content of the survey. That was a given, no matter what it said.

I trust the County as our last, best option to plan, finance, build and operate the sewer system that we have needed, and been so disrupted by, for so many years, and I an fine with their survey. There have been too many cooks in this kitchen for far too long and it is time to let our professional public works staff complete this task.

GetRealOsos said...

Ron,

Only a fool would think that Tri-W was EVER off the table!

Paavo owes his career to Pandora, and so does Bruce Gibson.

What are their salaries again?!

Don't you realize that the County has put on a very expensive (to PZ homeowners) a big dog n' pony show to make them think it was any kind of a fair process?

Can the people in L.O. be that stupid?

Can you spell over riding considerations?!

Whether it be Tri-W (which was always Pandora/Shirley/Gibson's choice) or the gravity out of town, it will still be Montgomery-Watson-Harza no matter what.

P.S. Even Rob Miller had stated he would rather have his yard dug up for a couple days vs. roads ripped up for years! And he's a engineer.

Richard LeGros said...

Gee....What a suprise that Ann and her toadies hate the County Survey. (LOL)

Oh, before I forget! Ann, pleae name one WWTF project for Los Osos proposed by a governmental agency having waste water authority that you have suported?

A Simple question; a simple answer will suffice. You know:

One?
Two?
None?

-R

Watershed Mark said...

Ron "The Man" Crawford wrote: "How's this for a novel idea, Los Osos? Let wastewater engineers select the location for your wastewater plant...

If I were to edit RC’s work, I would add the word "honest" to the words wastewater engineer.

1hon•est
Pronunciation: \ˈä-nəst\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin honestus honorable, from honos, honor honor
Date: 14th century
1 a: free from fraud or deception: legitimate , truthful -an honest plea- b: genuine , real -making honest stops at stop signs — Christian Science Monitor- c: humble , plain -good honest food-
2 a: reputable, respectable -honest decent people- b: chiefly British: good , worthy
3: creditable, praiseworthy -an honest day's work
4 a: marked by integrity b: marked by free, forthright, and sincere expression: frank -an honest appraisal- c: innocent, simple

synonyms see upright


Golly gee whiz: an honest appraisal…………………………………….Not a bad idea, when transparency matters.

Ron said...

Richard wrote:

"Oh, before I forget! Ann, pleae name one WWTF project for Los Osos proposed by a governmental agency having waste water authority that you have suported? "

What a stupid question.

You DO realize that seven years worth of that "governmental agency having waste water authority" was nothing more than a cover-up by your, and Nash-Karner's, CSD, right?

(Richard, I have an interesting theory involving you. I don't think you knew that Nash-Karner, for the past 10 years, has been covering up her "forming the LOCSD for no reason" thing. You actually thought, and, still think, that there was real rationale for building a "sewer-park" in the middle of town, when there never was, just Nash-Karner's cover-up, and you never knew it... still don't.)

I'll try to say this as clearly as I possibly can: The people of Los Osos are nothing more than victims... victims, I said... of a 10-year-and-counting cover-up by Pandora Nash-Karner.

I have a question for you, Richard... a MUCH better question than your ridiculous, clueless question:

How is what happened in Los Osos over the past 10 years NOT a cover-up by Pandora Nash-Karner?

There's no answer to that question.

As I recently reported (using tons of excellent, primary sources, as usual), it's the ONLY thing left that makes sense... and it makes perrrrrfect sense!

WSM wrote:

"If I were to edit RC’s work, I would add the word "honest" to the words wastewater engineer."

Good point.

Watershed Mark said...

RL,

Please tell us which document you harvested the figures you used to support your23 mile figure.
No wonder the Tri-W Machine loved working with you and your board…

Better stay on the porch Little Richard, you obliviously cannot hang with the Big Dogs. WOOF!

alabamasue said...

Hi Richard -
I, and at least three of my neighbors here in the PZ, selected "gravity collection at the midtown site" as our proferred project. I wonder how many others in the silent majority will do the same. By the way, people in the PZ received a survey printed on blue paper, while those outside the PZ got a green paper survey. This leads me to believe some weighting will be going on. Thanks for being the voice of sanity on this blog!

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

My comment about the whole survey issue is this ...

Ann has for several years been asking for a chinese menu style survey. Now that we have such a thing, people are complaining that various options are even still included.

Silly.

GetRealOsos said...

Shark,

How can anyone think anyone could make an intelligent choice if there are no prices. People vote with their pocketbook.

The County has done everything in the wrong order so they can keep Montgomery-Watson-Harza.

You are so silly Shark!

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

GetReal,

I agree that without prices, the survey is a bit insufficient. However, we can't really have prices until the system is fully designed and has passed all the way through the permitting process and contracts are made ... so at best all we can have is something like "how much more would you be willing to pay for out of town?" or "how much more would you be willing to pay to have our aquifer recharged?" and the like. If such questions aren't included in the survey it is definitely not going to provide to the County or anyone the information which would be most needed.

Mike Green said...

Howdy Los Osos!
Two things, is there an online form of the survey? the County website doesn't seem to have one, I wonder why?
If you post how you voted( in this case that's a term that begs another moniker, surveyvouched?)
Why did you vote that way? For instance, I have read all the TAC reports and kept up with the general county preferences.
Why in the world would you prefer the TriW site with that kind of information?
Either you don't believe the TAC conclusions or you want a system like Ecofluid sited there.
Works for me, I might prefer a vacuum system with something like that, after all, the TriW site IS already spoiled, ecologically that is.
What say you Mark, Would your system fit in TriW?

Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote: Please remember that Richard has far more knowledge and experience than you do in this area and if he says 22 miles, he's gonna be ballpark correct.

READ THE DEIR STEVE, the LF is clearly stated. As you are so lazy, be a good boy and turn to page @ 128 of your DEIR here: http://www.lowwp-eir.net/lowwpeir/pdf/EIR/Los_Osos_DEIR.pdf to find the county’s numbers for gravity, Doh!

If after “reading” the reference material you still “think/believe” that being nearly 50% short is “in the ball park”, then I must ask; what color is the sky in your world?
Why would I treat you like a child Steve? You are an adult Steve, aren’t you?

LF has no defense for his clearly inaccurate and very incorrect statements. That 21 miles, is a serious flaw in LR’s “arguments”, don’t cha think…No wonder the Tri-W Machine was so successful working with him and his board…

Steve you still have an outstanding statement you need to “man up” on. Spinning does not work to clear the record as evidenced here:

Steve wrote: That being said, if the County has asked for SOQs for Design/Build folks, wouldn't that indicate they're open to design/build? If not, doesn't it seem like they're gonna hire one company to design and another to build?

I will ask you again:

You wrote: "The County seems to want to go with one firm to design the system and another to do the construction ... but they're open to design-build."

http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/AssetFactory.aspx?did=19435

Would those who "believe" that technology providers should submit their statement of qualifications for the LOSTDEP Design Build please identify those technology providers from the county's website, please?

I understand and have proven that you simply do not understand the process and are stuck on stupid.

Watershed Mark said...

Hello Mike Green,

Without wanting to make everyone's head explode, the answer to your question is "yes".
If the county is angling for the Tri-W ECOfluid’s USBF™ would be the best choice. ECOfluid when honestly evaluated and compared rises quickly to the top, over anything that made it to the DEIR.

The footprint for a 1.2MGD USBF™ bioreactor treatment basin would be about 12,000 square feet. It is odorless and would easily accommodate any type of structure built over it, maybe a LOCSD community center, swimming pool, library, etc. The basin height is about 16 feet so the plant could be easily landscaped to the “dunes @ Tri-W”.

If you visit www.ECOfluid.com and look at the Nanoose facility http://www.ecofluid.com/decentralizedplant.cfm you will see any type of over structure can be built over the basins. Again the process is odorless and uses half the energy of Oxidation Ditch while putting out reclaimed water. We can also meet the 7.1 TIN limit set for the PZ by the WB. Nanoose design specs were for 20 TN. ECOfluid is developing the USBF™ “below 5 TN design” at Nanoose for use in Florida due to their tightening standard.

Yes Mike Green, USBF™ technology would make the Tri-W viable should it “float to the top”, no matter how some folks might feel about it as facts are facts.
The county is looking to build a regional septage receiving station although it isn’t spelled out that way in the DEIR that I could find. And that is a nasty thought…

What happens in North, East, West or South County should stay in N,E,W,S County.

The location selection is beyond my control, while the technology selection is not…
It ain’t easy being green…

Watershed Mark said...

The Los Osos saga really would make a very good documentary...Bill Mahr are you listening?

Watershed Mark said...

LF has no defense for his clearly inaccurate and very incorrect statements. That 21 miles, is a serious flaw in LR’s “arguments”, don’t cha think…No wonder the Tri-W Machine was so successful working with him and his board…

Should read:
LR has no defense for his clearly inaccurate and very incorrect statements. That 21 miles, is a serious flaw in LR’s “arguments”, don’t cha think…No wonder the Tri-W Machine was so successful working with him and his board…

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry LR,
I missed your post.

Prove that running a pipe to wherever out of town added 21 miles to the project prove it by showing us your proof.
Why not cut and paste the link to the data you used for your 23 miles?

You made the pint that sewers leak. What part of that don’t you get?
Who are you to be assuring us of engineers and builders work that they will not guarantee for more than 24 month? Your assurance isn’t worth squat Little Richard.

It’s too bad you aren’t in a position of authority as I would love to hold you accountable as the process rolls ahead.

Being embarrassed as badly as you were for something you should have known in your sleep if you are going to try to “run with the big dogs” I might understand your desire to tuck your tail, turn and run. As I stated, stay on the porch if you aren’t ABSOLUTY certain of your position.

Until then my challenge for you to actually clear up your confusion still stands.
Show us the linkage that the Tri-W was 21 miles closer than today’s drawing board design. If you cannot or will not do that, then we will have more proof about your character.

Watershed Mark said...

However, you entirely missed (or did not understand) the point of that post ...that even if the pipes leaked every day per the engineers calculations (which they will not), it still represents an DRASTIC reduction of N loading to the aquifer.

LR,

As I watch the Oscars it dawned on me the any discharge above a monthly average 7.1 mg/l of TIN or 10.0 mg/l TIN daily is “prohibited” in the PZ.
The WB eliminated bell and spigot gravity construction when the authored their ruling in 1983.

The county needs to get back to the drawing board quickly to avoid the fatal flaw brought forward in their current study result and DEIR if they want to use gravity no matter what.

If gravity is to be considered it must be “sealed” and not bell and spigot as outlined in the Public Improvement Standard and current DEIR.

Imagine comparing low pressure sealed energy efficient (low cost) small diameter collection pipe to gravity 8”-18” sealed gravity (high cost) collection pipe.

These costs would make which one to choose very simple. Talk about a fair apples to apples Chinese menu choice!!!

Legally speaking: A leaky gravity collection system cannot be used in a prohibition zone.
Equal protection issues would enter into the equation if somehow a waiver were issued by the WB.

I want to thank Little Richard Tri-W wonk for all his support, Thank you so, so much!

Mike Green said...

Mark, under unresistable and cunning examination by me, a remarkable primary source, confessed:

"Without wanting to make everyone's head explode, the answer to your question is "yes".
If the county is angling for the Tri-W ECOfluid’s USBF™ would be the best choice."

I knew it! only TriW supporters can be that annoying!
Off with his head!

Watershed Mark said...

Facts are stubborn things, even if they make heads explode.
USBF™ is an important environmental process… it is state of the art.

How is your Chihuahua?
Does he still have to pee on that toilet, poor thing?

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

The reference you provide says about 44 miles of sewer pipe. While Richard's number didn't match so well, the logic behind his comments and calculations still holds pretty well. Do you have any comments on that?

As for your fussing at me about my earlier statement, your reference suggests that design-build is something the County is considering. You have only proven that you are obsessive, obtuse and unwilling to interact with others in a polite and productive fashion.

When you write "Would those who "believe" that technology providers should submit their statement of qualifications for the LOSTDEP Design Build please identify those technology providers from the county's website, please?" not a one of us understands what you mean. Please be less obtuse if you would like a response.

Mark, I would love to believe your product is as great as you tell us it is. I would love it if it were as cheap. I would love it if the County could find an option as cheap as the one you keep telling us about. I would love it if you would talk with them about this rather than annoy us here.

Mike is right.

Mike Green said...

Mark opined:
"How is your Chihuahua?
Does he still have to pee on that toilet, poor thing"

No, thats Steve
I think he has a Chihuahua, we get mixed up because we originally shared the los osos views blogspot and the links still tie us together.
That being said:
http://losososlowincomedeathwatch.blogspot.com/
By Steve is a very good read.

I agree with a lot of his reasoning, he is a very enlightened person with human excellence.

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry Mike.

Steve,
If you still think the county is considering DB you simply do not understand the process.
You are childlike and should probably excuse yourself from the fact finding mission being played out by me.

There really isn't anything for you to do.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,

MIKE is a coward hiding a closet.
Mike is a stand up guy!
You are a confusede child who was outed from you closet.

Yeap, facts are stubborn things...

Watershed Mark said...

Mark,

The reference you provide says about 44 miles of sewer pipe. While Richard's number didn't match so well, the logic behind his comments and calculations still holds pretty well. Do you have any comments on that?

Yes, several, see above.

Watershed Mark said...

Logic in the LOSTDEP, not yet...
But we are working hard on it.

"A leaky gravity collection system cannot be used in a prohibition zone."

Churadogs said...

Richard LeGros sez:"Gee....What a suprise that Ann and her toadies hate the County Survey. (LOL)"

Uh, oh, Richard's making stuff up, again. Where did you get the idea I "hate" the survey? I think it's swell, even if it is missing important info and has some weirdness in it. "Hate?" Where do you get this stuff?

Richard also sez:"Oh, before I forget! Ann, pleae name one WWTF project for Los Osos proposed by a governmental agency having waste water authority that you have suported?"

Ah, now I know why Richard makes stuff up. He hasn't bothered to read any of my columns over the years. I loved my Ponds of Avalon, and, as it turns out, that approach (STEP, ponds, water recharge, etc.) could have worked with the ponding system out of town (cheaper, non ESHA land). Not for $38 a month, of course, but . . . And, after Stan lied to my face, I supported Tri-W until it became clear that was all based on lies. And, then remember when the Ripley Report came out,and I wrote a column saying I thought their approach to the problem was really swell, especially by their focusing on WATER, and sustainability and not just sewage & etc? Guess you missed that? Guess you also missed the columns and blog entries calling for everyone to get their sticky fingers off the scales and support the the county Process so it could go ahead honestly, yet keep a sharp eye out for creeping weirdness. And so forth. Guess you missed all that. Which is why you have to make stuff up.

Richard sez:"However, you entirely missed (or did not understand) the point of that post ...that even if the pipes leaked every day per the engineers calculations (which they will not), it still represents an DRASTIC reduction of N loading to the aquifer"

Ah, so it always WAS a N loading problem, and being an N loading problem, it could have been solved with a variety of systems, all focused to reducing load, NOT zero discharge. Well, well, just as I thought. Oh RWQCB, joo gotta lotta 'splainin' to do!

And Richard finally sez:"Having said my peace, I will bid you forever adieu as you stew in your doo-doo."

Promise?

Mark sez:"Imagine comparing low pressure sealed energy efficient (low cost) small diameter collection pipe to gravity 8”-18” sealed gravity (high cost) collection pipe.

These costs would make which one to choose very simple. Talk about a fair apples to apples Chinese menu choice!!!

Legally speaking: A leaky gravity collection system cannot be used in a prohibition zone.
Equal protection issues would enter into the equation if somehow a waiver were issued by the WB."

Once again, we're back into Water Board Mad Hatter Tea Party Territory: RWQCB put CDO's on 45 people and if they "discharged" anything considered "wastewater," no matter how "clean" it is, they'll be fined thousands of dollars a day and even put in jail. But the same Board will give a permit to install "leaky" pipes that can "leak" and discharge raw sewage. How is that legally defensible? As Richard indicates, if it'a N load problem, then homeowners whose "discharge" reached the groundwaters of California at less than 7 mgl would be exempt in the PZ and those whose "discharge" reaching groundwater, etc. at more than 7, would have to hook up and/or install some higher tech onsite system & etc. (Something like this was proposed by the Ripley plan, hooking up in stages,(low lying areas and those on the Bay) while pumping down the upper aquifer,thereby increasing the vados zone for other areas & etc. But that wasn't allowed because the Board calls for ZERO DISCHARGE even while allowing "leaky" unsealed gravity pipes? Lucy, Lucy, Lucy . . . need 'splainin' here.

Churadogs said...

Ron sez:"Cool poem, Ann."

Isn't that a wonderful poem. Gonna go order her book. Bet it's filled with other cool poems!

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

You are acting exactly like an obfusticating *ssh*l* would. Is this the impression you want to make? Will it help you sell your product? Will it help educate folks in Los Osos?

Sometimes it feels like I'm talking to an 8 year old ... but let's try again ... you keep throwing out there a statement I made about a week ago as if it were revealing some sort of huge ignorance on my part. When I asked for an explanation, your only response has been to post comments like "that proves my point". Presumably either your point is that you disagree with me (duh!) or that you're a jerk (and that probably isn't your point) or that there is something that you believe I'm overlooking. I took a stab at guessing what you meant. Your response did not educate or elucidate in any way but was at best rude and dismissive.

So ... do you want to be viewed as an *ssh*l* or do you want to be seen as someone who is willing to discuss and chat about these issues? Please note that anything less than a patient and careful explanation of the reasoning behind your original "gotcha" comment and follow up comments will be unacceptable.

Watershed Mark said...

If you don't posses the requisite knowledge you cannot understand what is actually taking place.

Your childlike desire to leave the hard facts out of your posts suggest you are more interested in "chatting" for the sake of chatting all Chatty Kathy-like and such.
To this I must say no thanks.

If you want to know more, I will suggest your read more as all those MBs actually tell the tale.

I'm beating the drum on Ann's Land about better technology and common sense about dollars and cents.

If you don't want to dance fine, but please don't expect me to alter the beat on bit.

When you stated:
The reference you provide says about 44 miles of sewer pipe. While Richard's number didn't match so well, the logic behind his comments and calculations still holds pretty well. Do you have any comments on that?

You demonstrate you that you are now engaged it the process, which explains your comments, past and present.

Now go do your homework.
I'll bet LR is buring up the county website looking for those 21 miles...BWahahahahahahahahaHAAAAAAA!

Watershed Mark said...

REINMAN wrote: -the logic behind his comments and calculations still holds pretty well.

This is real life with real consequences, not one of your statistics classes, son. SHEESH!!

Ron said...

Richardo wrote:

"There is nothing to 'cover up' about Pandora or her actions. The fact that you have this fixation about her is, err, creepy.
Why don't you just get a room, hang a picture of Pandora in it, and amuse yourself....or do you already do so?"


Richard, do you see how your weak, terrible argument doesn't argue my super-tight, all-dots-connected, cover-up away?

In fact, when you have to resort to this card:

"Why don't you just get a room, hang a picture of Pandora in it, and amuse yourself....or do you already do so?"

... it actually STRENGTHENS my case for a cover-up, because you're not saying anything that argues the cover-up away, because there isn't anything that argues it away.

What you SHOULD be saying, if you weren't a victim of Nash-Karner's cover-up, like the rest of Los Osos (and Californians, for that matter) is something like this:

"No, Ron, you're wrong, because there actually WERE sound, concrete reasons to build a $55 million "sewer-park" with an amphitheater in the middle of Los Osos, and here they are..."

But that argument simply does not exist.

So, BECAUSE that argument does not exist, you have to resort to this crap:

"The fact that you have this fixation about her is, err, creepy."

And, when that's all that's left, that actually STRENGTHENS my case for a cover-up... a cover-up that you're not even aware of.

Buel, Hensley, and Gustafson? I think they all knew/know about the cover-up. But not you, Richard.

No. They just USED you.

Ricky wrote:

"Having said my peace, I will bid you forever adieu as you stew in your doo-doo."

Buh-bye... and see you soon.

Alabamasue wrote:

"I, and at least three of my neighbors here in the PZ, selected "gravity collection at the midtown site" as our proferred project."

All smack aside... Sue, can I ask you straight-forward question?

Considering all of the County's evidence that shows the TriW project to be the exact technological embarrassment that I've reported it to be for over four years, why would you and your neighbors do that?

I don't understand.

What's your rationale for doing that?

I'm very interested in your answer to that question.

Thanks in advance.

Watershed Mark said...

The picture of that tormented Chihuahua hanging on in fear to the toilet seat on Steve Paige’s BlogSpot is how I envision what Little Ricky looks like.

One loud bark and he’d fall backwards into the drink. WOOF

LR how are you coming with that "proof" that supports those 21 mile from the Tri-W to the out of town location?

Richard LeGros said...

Ann,

Withdrawing your so-called 'support' of an OFFICIAL project is exactly the same as no support at all. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise,

Your support of unworkable and DOA projects such as 'the ponds of Avalon' or Ripley is not support of a project; just meaningless diversion from actual implementation of viable solutions.

The only reason you give for your nonsupport is because you believe you were 'lied' to; which is really only a facade behind which you hid your true intent...your belief that Los Osos does not need a WWTF at all. To this day, you believe and actively Mau Mau that the State has manufactured the need for a WWTF; and has illegally enforced the law by implementing a PZ. The fact that you were actively supportive of the numerous lawsuits against the last Project...and were an active plaintiff in the PZLDF lawsuit, just show your true intent.

Amazing, you claim to like the DOA 'Ripley Plan' because it was "focusing on WATER and sustainability"; which is EXACTLY what the Tri-W Project was all about.

THE PARAMOUNT INTENT OF TRI-W WAS TO ACHIEVE A 100% SUSTAINABLE WATER SUPPLY FOR LOS OSOS WITHOUT IMPORTING WATER!

Tri-W, which would have treated our wastewater to between 2-3 mg/l N on average, included 100% recharge to the aquifer, and effluent disposal at multiple sites around town (in order to SUSTAIN the aquifer water table levels and SUSTAIN wetlands) would have brought Los Osos within 100 acre feet/year of meeting our water needs at full build out (then estimated to be around 2030).

Tri-W was to achieve A SUSTAINABLE WATER SUPPLY and the needed 100 acre feet through the implementation of water management protocols, conservation, and water appliance retrofitting. As it would be decades before full build out was achieved the CSD was going to constantly monitor water usage; and IF the stated measures did not yield the needed 100 acre feet/year, the intent was to look at other vehicles for reducing demand; such as buying and retiring vacant land from development to name one of many options.

In closing Ann, YOUR ACTIONS speak much louder (and truer) than your words. So lady, you ain't foolin' anyone!

-R

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

I am saddened that you've chosen d*ckishness.

You can always tell a bully in any discussion when they say things like "I'm right and you're not smart enough to know" or "I have the facts" but then refuse to point people to the facts and provide an explanation of how they are relevant.

Mark, you're acting like a bully. I will not be bullied. If you decide you want to grow up and have a reasoned discussion that would be great. Let me know if that is your interest. Please, note, however, that you are not the lord-n-master of all the discussions here. Give-n-take is what discussion is about, not making dogmatic statements and then getting petulant when people don't immediately cave in and bow down before you.

Visual Verification: "cootie"

Watershed Mark said...

The total cost of the stimulus bill is approximately $787 billion.
The bill (HR1) contains $2 billion in funding for drinking water infrastructure, $4 billion for wastewater utilities, $1.4 billion for rural drinking water, wastewater and waste disposal projects and $4.6 billion for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for new projects to improve flood protection, navigation, hydropower and the existing water resource infrastructure and completion of current water projects.
http://www.wwdmag.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=showNewsItem&newsItemID=17606

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
You and Lil' Ricky really make a cute couple.

Sewertoons said...

ron, I also voted for Tri-W (and gravity of course) - you know why?

• I want to keep the water over the basin,
• I want tertiary clean-up for that water,
• I never want to see (or smell) a septic tank pumped ever again,
• I don't want that air pollution from the pumper trucks (far above what we see here today - due to the new rules and far less that we already have with that one central point for pick-up, Tri-W),
• I don't want to p**s off the folks out of town (it is after all, our sh*t),
• I don't want a plant that can be expanded to include the ag clusters out of town that are at some point inevitable (hopefully after I am dead),
• I don't want the possibility of a county-wide composting station with all the traffic and air pollution that will bring,
• I don't want to see ag land and the accompanying scenery fouled up with acres of treatment basins (OK, it is true, my #2 choice was Turri Road - as a thank you for all the hard work the County has done for us -- that I feel was unfortunate and unnecessary due to lies at the recall election),
• I want a state-of-the-art plant,
• I already PAID for (actually am STLL paying for - on my taxes) the design,

and last but not least -

• I want a park at our sewer plant - like they have in Beverly Hills and San Francisco - it is the only way this town will see a park on that land (if we go out-of-town the unused land will need to either be restored to ESHA at great expense by the BROKE CSD - this may not mean park - and using what money to do so? or MORE LIKELY -SOLD- because of the bankruptcy, for who knows what purpose - retail or motel, but I'm pretty sure we can rule out a park).

Sewertoons said...

I just copied this off of ron's site. This is ron's description of himself:

Former newspaper editor/reporter, turned dragged-kicking-and-screaming-into independent investigative journalist, when the media fails to do its job.

Judge for yourself as to ron's effectiveness in his "new" role.

I'd like to know who dragged him - himself?

alabamasue said...

Ron -
Richard and Sewertoons answered your question before I got a chance to. They pretty much covered it all. The modern sewer plants I have visited have no odor and can be disguised with landscaping, fences, etc. I'm fairly certain the county won't go for the mid-town site, but kudos to them for even keeping it on the "menu."

Sewertoons said...

Hi Richard,

Thank you for your spot-on postings above!

I am still waiting for Ann's reply as to what she meant by her posting 7:37 AM, February 19, 2009:

Ann says, "Good questions. Like when the Ripley Plan was finished, why not hold a 218 vote to move forward? Do you suppose by that point the CSD was so hammered down by gunfire (TPW LAFCO, RWQC CDO/ACL, etc. they couldn't do anything at that point until it was finally too late and the patient bled to death, which was likely the plan all along?"

She supported the recall, she supported the "new" board. By not holding that 218 - was the plan "no sewer" all along - to NOT hold a 218 - to NOT BE ABLE to move ahead on anything (but bankruptcy!)?

Watershed Mark said...

From: Mark Low [mailto:Mark@NOwastewater.com]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 2:12 PM
To: mhutchinson@co.slo.ca.us
Cc: John Waddell; pogren@co.slo.ca.us; mark@nowastewater.com
Subject: Water Board's Written Waiver to SLOCO to discharge in the PZ

Greetings Mark,

As I am having difficulty reaching you by phone I thought I would write, which is probably in order to better establish the record.
Do you have anything in writing from the WB that gives SLOCO permission to install the leaky collection your LOWWP study brought forward?

I am interested in anything “written” you may be relying upon to move ahead with the installation of bell and spigot pipe in the PZ.
Do you have any idea about when the county will begin responding to the DEIR comments? There are some very thoughtful folks out here…

My question to you stems from the idea/principle that “no discharge” is allowed inside the Prohibition Zone.
I really will appreciate a direct and prompt response from you on this as time is of the essence, as you know.

If you would please send or post to your website a copy of any written documentation or waiver to discharge you or SLOCO et al have ASAP, it will be very much appreciated.
Your attention in these matter is should clear up any misunderstandings.

Best regards,

Mark

Mark Low
602.740.7975 voice
480.464.0405 facsimile
Mark@NOwastewater.com
P.O. Box 1355 Mesa, Arizona 85211
Spero Meliora "I aspire to greater things"

Of course I will post any response.

Watershed Mark said...

Lyneete wrote: Hi Richard,

Thank you for your spot-on postings above!

Careful Lynette, even though you like the water LR is perched on the toilet seat and I don't know anyone who would want to swim in the toilet, do you?

Watershed Mark said...

TCG wrote: If people are really interested in such things as the precise current pre-design cost estimates of one type of collection system vs. another, the County has produced volumes of analysis, and the TAC has reviewed and commented on those preliminary estimates. That information is there for the minor % of people who really want to analyze it.

Sorry I missed this TCG. I must ask why wasn't welded gravity considered and why was Ripley's estimes itself entered into the mix, instead of the "hyped up to make leaky gravity look better" massaged figures?

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry I missed this TCG. I must ask why wasn't welded gravity considered and why wasn't Ripley's estimate itself entered into the mix, instead of the "hyped up to make leaky gravity look better" massaged figures?

As you seem familiar with the TAC Memos and all, how does "real hard info" being left out of the process instill "trust"?

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote: • I want a park at our sewer plant - like they have in Beverly Hills

Lynette there is no sewer plant in Beverly Hills.
Are you intentionally lying or just misinformed?

Dream on...
Facts are stubborn things.

It's hard to believe(but I do)that you, Steve and LR are so bloody ignorant. SHEESH!

When you think then write Lil' Ricky is spot on you help make the case about his "reality"...21 miles of bad road and all.
What color is the sky in your world Lynette?

Realistic1 said...

"Lynette there is no sewer plant in Beverly Hills.
Are you intentionally lying or just misinformed?"

Really Mark - no sewer plant in Beverly Hills? Where does their raw sewage go?

Watershed Mark said...

Into a City of Los Angeles Interceptor to be treated and disposed of in the Santa Monica Bay.
Sanitation Districts Nos. 4, 9, and 27 are served by contracts with the City of Los Angeles.

Read all about it here: http://www.lacsd.org/about/wastewater_facilities/default.asp

Lynette misrepresented that a Bev Hills potable water treatment facilty located adjacent to a park was a wastewater treatment facility.

My true statement and question still stand:
"Lynette there is no sewer plant in Beverly Hills.
Are you intentionally lying or just misinformed?"

Watershed Mark said...

http://www.cityofla.org/SAN/irp/Wastewater.htm

http://www.lacity.org/SAN/lasewers/private_sewers_septic/septic_systems/index.htm

Lots to get linked up on, this one is a goodie:
http://www.lacity.org/SAN/lasewers/treatment_plants/hyperion/index.htm

There just isn't any excuse to be so uniformed, unless it is intentional.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote:

I want a park at our sewer plant - like they have in Beverly Hills and San Francisco

Ok, here is a link to the SF systems.

http://sfwater.org/mto_main.cfm/MC_ID/14/MSC_ID/117/MTO_ID/218

Try to be honest and show us which one of these facilities has the park you told us you want.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Next Mark is gonna tell us that the Santa Cruz wastewater treatment plant isn't upwind of a residential neighborhood and downtown.

Mark, if you're arguing to put in a whole bunch of small plants all over town you probably want to make sure that people don't view sewage treatment plants as smelly.

While you want to make this an issue of whether 'Toons is 100% solid on each and every fact and you want to point out all the ways she may have made a mistake, you certainly don't seem all that gracious on this matter.

Please also remember that you've been here selling two systems in the last 15 months and both of them are the best thing since sliced bread and that you've told us that both of these systems are perfect in every way and that both are proven technology and that both will run forever with no maintenance and that not only will they be free to install, the manufacturer will give rebates of $40k per household if we simply pay for the monthly service of a nickle and that neither company will go bankrupt and that all other companies are necessarily wrong because they believe in pipes and that Obama is a Muslim and that he is neither black nor white and the list goes on and on.

Do you seriously want people picking over your statements with a fine tooth comb and then trumpeting small mistakes or disagreements on matters of opinion as if they are evidence of incompetence?

Here's the thing ... even if you did want to go to jerksville, I don't think that anyone else would want to go there with you.

Your own words, repeated back to you might be more compelling than anything I would write: "Are you intentionally lying or just misinformed? ... There just isn't any excuse to be so rude, unless it is intentional." Admittedly I made a minor change, but the point is clear.

Maybe rereading the parts of the Bible which talk about gentleness and helping others and being gracious and even splinters and logs in eyes.


Word Verification "piglingo"

Watershed Mark said...

Thursday 19 February 2009 15.47 GMT
500,000 gallons of sewage spills into San Francisco bay

Workers in wetsuits were trying to seal up a metal ''saddle'' placed around the 24-inch-wide pressure pipeline resting along the shore below the Fort Baker treatment plant to redirect wastewater back into the plant.

The spill was first spotted at about 1pm on Tuesday at the district's treatment plant in the Golden Gate national recreational area.

After several hours of unsuccessful attempts to plug the 2-inch hole before the pipe was submerged in tide water, the leak was allowed to continue until work could continue on Wednesday morning.

''This situation is unfortunate,'' said Simmons, noting the district's largest previous spill was 63,000 gallons in January 2008.

Simmons said the hole likely was due to corrosion of the 23-year-old pipe constantly exposed to tide water.

Putting a steel pressure pipe in sea water is some kind of wonderful.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/19/sewage-spill-san-francisco-bay

Engineered and permitted all nice and legal like.
The people paid to build it and will pay again to fix it.

Not very sustainable.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
Or anyone please feel free to cut and paste my words that prove your statement:
both of them are the best thing since sliced bread and that you've told us that both of these systems are perfect in every way and that both are proven technology and that both will run forever with no maintenance and that not only will they be free to install, the manufacturer will give rebates of $40k per household if we simply pay for the monthly service of a nickle and that neither company will go bankrupt and that all other companies are necessarily wrong because they believe in pipes and that Obama is a Muslim and that he is neither black nor white and the list goes on and on.

You just aren't in the truth zone Steve.

I appreciate your wanting to come to the aid of Lynette, but she has demonstrated on a number of occasions she is a player in this passion play.

She can stay on the porch, jump up on the rim with Lil Ricky or put on her big girl panties and get over it.

I'm on a fact finding mission, get over it.

Aaron said...

In reality, not a lot of gravity collection systems are sustainable. I also noticed that a lot of these systems sound great on paper -- and that's what I think has sold Sewertoons and LeGros -- but when the sewer is built, it's likely going to be an unaffordable sludge factory.

Do not vote based on figures coming from sewer politicos and gravity lobbyists. They're not experts. You have to do research on your own.

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

Hi Shark -

Thank you for the defense!

The Beverly Hills plant under the park that I referenced is a scalping plant underneath the park across the street from the Beverly Hills Hotel (the pink and green one). Remember the blogger Ted Peterson? He was the expert on this one.

The plant in San Francisco is by Patricia Johannson and can be seen here:
http://www.patriciajohanson.com/villamedici/page

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,

Too bad you relied on TP, it appears from my research in Bev Hills that he is wrong.
Why don’t you jump on the phone and find out for yourself and report back here. If you don’t then we will consider your statement “SnopeD” and the matter closed.

However we do need to flush out your continuing crap about San Francisco having a sewer crap.
As I have correctly stated, “it doesn’t”. Why are you persisting in your attempted mis-information campaign?

http://www.patriciajohanson.com/villamedici/page1.html

Patricia’s design “Endangered Garden” is a linear park along San Francisco Bay was commissioned in 1987 by the San Francisco Arts Commission. (Not a county public works department) (Listen up Lynette here is the important factual part Lynette) As co-designer of the thirty million dollar “Sunnyside Facilities”, a pump station and holding tank for water and sewage-

A pump station and holding tank for water and sewage is NOT a WWTP.
If you cannot be honest when making your own statements how can you be considered credible when commenting about someone else’s comments? (LR’s 21 miles)

As Ron "THE MAN" Crawford wrote: You see... there's this thing called the Internet, that has these things called blogs, where anyone can go and read stuff. And one of those blogs is called SewerWatch, and... uh, nevermind.


I Love LO!

Watershed Mark said...

However we do need to flush out your continuing crap about San Francisco having a sewer park.
As I have correctly stated, “it doesn’t”. Why are you persisting in your attempted mis-information campaign?

Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote: Next Mark is gonna tell us that the Santa Cruz wastewater treatment plant isn't upwind of a residential neighborhood and downtown.
I will tell you that when retro fitted with USBF™ there would be no odor.

Steve wrote: Mark, if you're arguing to put in a whole bunch of small plants all over town you probably want to make sure that people don't view sewage treatment plants as smelly.
We are working on it.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette, I wanted to save you the time to cut and paste from my blog:

About Me
Watershed Mark
Holding those who want to serve the public, accountable, in a lawful and fiduciary manner using the power of internet technology. Pursuit of happiness while thinking of those who will come after me first.

Watershed Mark said...

I really appreciate Ann’s gracious hospitality. Here BlogSpot is RED HOT. Having a place to “hobby” while I work is an absolute treasure. Thank you for your efforts Ann!

Watershed Mark said...

Ann's BlogSpot is WHITE HOT!

Churadogs said...

On 1:30 p.m. Feb 22 Richard sez:sez:"Having said my peace, I will bid you forever adieu as you stew in your doo-doo."

On 7:39 a.m. Feb 23 I reply: " Promise? "

Then, after having said his peace (sic) and bidding us forever adieu, Richard comes BACK on 10:39 a.m. Feb 23 and AGAIN on 11:15 a.m. to reply to Ron.

Am I missing something here? I thought "forever" meant, well, like, forever, not 24 hours?

Oh, and before he left forever, Richard said to me: "By the way, I honestly find you a liar, disingenuous, and incapable of rational thought too." And said to Ron, after returning from his promised "forever," "You are mentally ill." And to all of us on this blog comment section:"You guys are just all nuts!"

And you wonder why I keep saying, Richard's making stuff up again? Well, we shall certainly miss him, even if he does make stuff up, calls all of us names, claims all kinds of wrong conclusions about what he thinks people think that are in reality only projections of his own misperceptions and then promises to go away forever, then shows up 24 hours later. Yikes!

Mark sez (re Toonces previous comments)"A pump station and holding tank for water and sewage is NOT a WWTP.
If you cannot be honest when making your own statements how can you be considered credible when commenting about someone else’s comments? (LR’s 21 miles)"

This raises one of the problems that has plagued the Sewer Wars from day one -- accurate definitions. If one thing is called something else and used to "prove" something, then everything ends up in an apples/oranges muddle.And buzz words that are used not to reveal or 'splain but to obscure --- the old "anti-sewer obstructionists" mantra, for example. & etc. Always a problem.

Watershed Mark said...

I think RL was referring to me because he was angry at me for exposing his stupidity, lack of knowledge and lack of attention to detail thereby putting him "on the porch" where he obviously belongs.

His 21 miles of out of town conveyance isn't "explainable", so he thought excusing himself from that discussion would “make it go away” but instead, it has become his defining moment.

What do you say LR? Cat got your tounge???

Watershed Mark said...

After watching today's SLOCO BOS public comments, I want to say that should the county continue at their current pace on their current path, it could result in a "do over".


Bo Cooper's comments are very very interesting.

Ron said...

Richard wrote:

"You are mentally ill.

Your behavior and promotion of Pandora conspiracy theories, all based upon your feverish, sophistic interpretation of specious 'proof', just belie that you are mentally ill and not to be believed

In your mind’s eye, you are seeing patterns in Pandora's behavior that do not exist in reality."


Again, Richard, extremely weak arguments (and you were a CSD Director? Yikes!). They are so bad, they're not even arguments. I don't know what they are.

How is Los Osos NOT a victim of a cover-up by Nash-Karner?

The question is:

Why did Nash-Karner's second failed sewer plant have to go in the same place as her first failed sewer plant?

THAT's the question.

It's such a pure, and simple, and outstanding question, and there simply is no answer to it.

Why? What was the rationale? Why did Nash-Karner's second failed sewer plant have to go in the same place as her first failed sewer plant?

'cause, gotta admit, that ended up being awfully convenient for her (and Stan, and Gordon).

Because, the fact that her second failed sewer plant had to go in the same place as her first failed sewer plant, REALLY covered-up the fact that her first sewer project -- the one she used to form the LOCSD -- had failed.

So, that was VERRRRY convenient for her (and her fellow Solution Groupers, Hensley and Gustafson) that her second project HAD to go in the exact same location as her first.

Why?

That's the question, and there's the cover-up. Makes perfect sense. In fact, it's the only thing left that makes sense.

'toons

Your "reasons" are a mess, and I wish I had the time to pick them apart.

" I want a park at our sewer plant."

Laughable. 'toons, you listen to Nash-Karner. HUGENORMOUS mistake.

'toons, Ricahrd, Sue... uhhh, according to the county, Tri-W is $55 million. The next highest is estimated at $19 million.

The Pro/Con report shows the Tri-W site to be a massive embarrassment.

So, like I wrote, you're right, and the County of SLO, AND everyone at the NWRI is wrong?

Well, there ya, go, guys.

(Oi, I'm not down with the General Public having a say in infrastructure. Far too stupid. Did the Public Works Department ask the citizens of Avila what kind of bridge they wanted at Avila Beach Drive? Of course not, for good reason -- the General Public knows as much about bridge building as they do about sewer building.)

Although, something did occur to me last night -- if I was a property owner in Los Osos, and I wanted to delay paying a monthly sewer bill for as long as possible, you know what I'd do?

Not only would I vote for the "mid-town" site, I'd tell everyone I knew to do the same. Because, as we all know, NOTHING has led to more delays in sewering Los Osos than trying to force a sewer plant in at the Tri-W site.

And, if the County pursued that option, it'd delay everything for years and years and years to come, because the Tri-W site, is a "bait and switchy", illegal (according to the Coastal Zone Land Use Ordinance) mess.

So, that's what I'd do IF I wanted to delay a sewer -- vote for the Tri-W site.

'toons wrote:

"I just copied this off of ron's site. This is ron's description of himself:

Former newspaper editor/reporter, turned dragged-kicking-and-screaming-into independent investigative journalist, when the media fails to do its job.

Judge for yourself as to ron's effectiveness in his "new" role.

I'd like to know who dragged him - himself?


That'd be the Tribune, because Bill Morem, their long-time opinion page editor, is BFF with Nash-Karner, so they don't do their job, like when they didn't write a word about how Nash-Karner's "better, cheaper, faster" project failed in 2000, after I wrote a New Times cover piece that showed it was on the verge of failing, and one month after my story was published, it failed... and the Trib NEVER wrote a word. And, if they had -- just ONE story --- Nash-Karner wouldn't have been able to cover-up the fact that her "project" had failed, and this train wreck would have been averted in 2000.

That's who dragged me... The Tribune, and Bill Morem.

Richard LeGros said...

Ann,

LOL...chastising members of your own readership and telling them to go away! Where would your blog be if you chased-off all your readers?


On to other matters.....

As expected, you continue not to enlighten your readership that you do not want a waste water project for Los Osos.

Be brave!
Be Forthright!
Explain to your readership your reasons you believe a waste water is not needed in Los Osos.
Explain to your readership why Los Osos may flagrantly exempt itself from complying with the water quality laws of California
Illuminate us, please!

Erstwhile, continuing this blog's cyberspacic hand-wringing regarding project 'options' and 'process' when you really do not want any project at all is disingenuine.

It makes complete sense as to why you constantly question the County's process to develop a project:
As long as you keep the process in play there will be NO resolution to the problem. Holy molly, it is so obvious that resolution is the last thing you want.

Lady, you ain't foolin' anyone!

-R

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

We were told here by folks opposed to TriW that Patricia Johannson could provide a better sewer plant design.

Now, Mark, who seems to also be opposed to TriW, says that what Patricia Johannson's past work isn't sewer plant work.

What to believe?

Watershed Mark said...

Ron “THE MAN” Crawford brilliantly thought then wrote:
Although, something did occur to me last night -- if I was a property owner in Los Osos, and I wanted to delay paying a monthly sewer bill for as long as possible, you know what I'd do?

Class A+ Smack

Watershed Mark said...

Be brave!
Be Forthright!
Look hard at your words you have blogged to us recently:
WSM:
The 23 mile number was for the old Tri-W project. My err, but an honest one.

RL, You erred when you ordered the vegetation destroyed at Tri-W. Where is the “excuse”?
That guilt has to weigh on you every time you drive by, doesn’t it?

Richard LeGros said...
One?
Two?
None?

-R
You guys are just all nuts!
YOUR ACTIONS speak much louder (and truer) than your words. (You ordered all those beautiful trees destroyed for nothing, ouch)
Looking hard at your words and arguments that you have blogged to us recently, I suggest strongly that you get a mental health evaluation.

Watershed Mark said...

RIENMAN wrote: What to believe?

Trust but verify.
But to do that you are going to have to apply yourself better than you have, in the past.
You certainly do not want to find yourself up on that "rim" with LR and Lynette.

WOOF!

Watershed Mark said...

RL wrote:
Be brave!
Be Forthright!
Look hard at your words you have blogged to us recently:
WSM:
The 23 mile number was for the old Tri-W project. My err, but an honest one.

Yet you are not brave or forthright in giving us the basis for how you came up with 23 miles for the Tri-W.

Once more with feeling: No wonder the Tri-W Machine loved "working" you and your board.

All those trees all that ESHA habitat destroyed for nothing LR, how do you sleep at night?

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark raises a few issues worth discussing.

First is his quote from Ron which suggests people could try to game the system to avoid paying a sewer bill as long as possible. Simply put, the reason we are in this mess is because of people doing exactly that. A vote for the recall (for example) was a vote to delay paying and to continue polluting for at least four to six additional years.

Sure, for some people, this action may help them financially, but the total cost to the whole of our town swamps the relatively small gains by a few. Typically when a person argues that all of society should pay for their personal gain it is called selfish. In Los Osos it is no different.


Mark also suggests that Richard should be criticized for legal and reasonable actions because he should have foreseen that the post recall board would take illegal and unreasonable actions. That comment is just plain dumb.


Mark also misses the point about Patricia Johanson. Perhaps he doesn't realize that he is calling a lot of people fools, folks who would normally be in his camp. Mark's point that we should check into the claims of others, however, is a good one. That being said, Mark, where is the data you promised me? You promised me some five years worth of monthly data that proves your system is awesome. Perhaps I overlooked the e-mail, but I do seem to remember you telling me that because I am just a citizen that I don't get to see any more than one year's worth of data. Not your words exactly, but how can I verify your claims if you won't help me out?


Lastly, you tell us that you're into a fact finding mode and that trust but verify is good. Richard told you he was thinking of TriW. Why don't you look it up and admit your mistake when openly doubting him instead of asking him to prove to you that he was right?

Watershed Mark said...

Steve writes: We were told here by folks opposed to TriW that Patricia Johannson could provide a better sewer plant design.

Steve wasn't it you who told me I should use the internet to check things out?

Dude, what happened?

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Mark raises a few issues worth discussing.
Dud, what happened?

The only folks in "my camp" are those who are honest with others and themselves, those who possess intellectual integrity and common sense.

I like fruits fish and nuts, but love a great hamburger with cheese, garlic and onions.

Please cut and paste where I:
promised YOU some five years worth of monthly data that proves your system is awesome.

Don't fib dude, it doesn't help anything.

Where is the county data on the leaky gravity and the treatment systems they stuck into the DEIR.

I know you don't understand "wwt process" and you certainly don't understand the county's process.

Bang away all you want, you and the county have been provided more data than the county has released(Save on my DEIR Comments).

Facts are stubborn things. Better get used to them.

BTW, a 1.2MGD facility would be the county's largest WWTP under its control.
Judging from the way they have handled the process thus far, they really will benefit from the ease of operation and nominal operator intervention it takes to run a USBF facility.

We can put it onto the internet and monitor and direct operations from our computers.

Thank you again, for the opportunity to talk about our terrific technology. Dude!

On a completely different yet harmonious note:
I’m still waiting for the expose on the SLO City issues, while Morro Bay continues to get a pass while it leaks raw sewage from its failed gravity collection system and underperforming treatment works.

Watershed Mark said...

21 miles of bad road and all those trees and ESHA Habitat, for nothing...

Watershed Mark said...

Your still here LR. Bwa hahaahahha

You are like those boys in Broke Back Mountain " I WISH I COULD QUIT YOU!" Bwa hahahahaha!

Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote:Richard told you he was thinking of TriW. Why don't you look it up and admit your mistake when openly doubting him instead of asking him to prove to you that he was right?

So you believe I should spend time looking for something that doesn't exist?

What color is the sky in your world?

If LR wants to work to prove what he knows about the Tri-W collection system, great.
I'll read it and comment, that's my hobby.

Mike said...

Hang in there Richard and Shark...and all those who pay Los Osos Property Taxes...

My family has submitted our 3 survey's... Now let's see what the County produces, but we can expect that some will cry foul no matter which way the County goes... The process and the results will never satisfy some, but that's life...

Bottom line remains: Los Osos is getting a sewer...!!!!

Watershed Mark said...

False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil.
Socrates

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE,

RL doesn't live in the PZ. He won't be paying for the sewer or the "finacial" cost of ruining the habitat at Tri-W.

From the deepest desires often come the deadliest hate.
Socrates

Realistic1 said...

"21 miles of bad road and all those trees and ESHA Habitat, for nothing..."

You obviously don't know much about Los Osos, Mark. That 21 miles of "bad road" is 1000% better than before it was dug up - Los Osos has always had some of the worst roads in the County. The repaving that resulted from the parts of the collection system already installed was a vast improvement in most cases.

As for the ESHA and trees...non-native eucs that would have come down when a certain developer in town built his commerical park in Tri-W's place and ESHA that was actually a series of recreational trails trampled on daily by dog-walkers, wanna-be equestrians and kids on mountain bikes. Not exactly pristine, protected habitat to begin with.

Watershed Mark said...

R1,
You don't seem to have been tracking this thread. 21 miles is the distance RL needs to make up for in his junk math statements to me.
AS for the length of roads which were disturbed for the “test installation” certainly wasn’t 21 miles, it was probably closer to two miles.

I know the county roads in LO/BP are in very sad shape, indeed. WHY?

As for the ESHA and non native trees:
All God's plants are beautiful even "non-native" species.
That barren land caused by the Tri-W Machine working LR's board over isn't a natural looking piece of land, non-native trees and all.
It doesn't fit the surrounding landscape and serves a monument to greed and probably corruption of the few perpetrated upon the citizenry in the name of "_______________".
I’ll bet erosion is greater now than before the cutting and removal took place. That fence looks terrible.
So instead of folks being able to use it to take their dogs for a walk or whatever, it looks like a radioactive bomb site. Good work LR, SHEESH.

In short I think common sense folks can agree that the Tri-W looked better and was more useful before the Tri-W Machine started working over LR’s Board…

Watershed Mark said...

The biggest challenge in 2009 for water regulation will continue to be no regulation in regard to water loss or leakage at the joints. The water and sewer industry has been surprisingly silent in this critical area. While infrastructure managers realize the importance of replacing aging water and sewer systems, we must act together as an industry to provide a path to protect and help to conserve one of our most important natural resources — water.

http://www.wateronline.com/download.mvc/Lack-Of-Regulation-And-Standards-Crippling-0001

Realistic1 said...

Mark,

I track this thread just fine. Apparently I need to work on expressing humor a little better. Since I live here (and have for 20 years) I'm quite aware of how much road was torn up during the early construction of the collection system.

As for the "Tri-W Machine", I resent the implication that those who supported getting the project done, and complying with the law, were somehow brainwashed into supporting the mid-town site. Contrary to Ron's opinion, most of the people in this town have a mind of their own, and recognize bullshit when they see it. That's why I voted against the recall, and that's why I ignore most of what you have to say.

Watershed Mark said...

LO should go with a welded system.
Common sense demands it.

Why would anyone run a leaking gravity sewer through adrinking water aquifer?

Watershed Mark said...

Just so long as you arec exposed to acdifferent take on things is what's important.

Best to leave the heavy lifting to those best suited for it.

What did you think of my letter to Mark Hutchinson, Environmental Projects Manager?

Peace out.

Mike said...

Thank You Realistic1... Your humor is right on, please do not change...!!!!

Watershed Mark said...

Why have the roads been neglected by the county in Los Osos/Baywood Park?

Try to put some humor into it won't you?

Mike said...

There is something seriously wrong with a sales person who puts all his eggs in one basket...

Just how much would ECOfluid/WM stand to make form Los Osos...??? Why would this one sales person spend such an inordinate amount of time blogging...??? Is Los Osos the only potential market for that particular STEP product...??? Does ECOfluid know and read what their sales person pumps into this blog...?????

Hell, Al Barrow brought in 3 others that I know about, so why this one sales obsession...??? WM must stand to make millions if his "product" were chosen...

As Realistic1 has reminded me, it is a total waste of time to attempt to respond to anything WM pours out... Ann's blog has been over run by that salesperson... and for what end, certainly not for noble crusade to cleanse our water...but how much does he stand to make....?????? and he doesn't even own a home in Los Osos... There really is something wrong with that sales person and his way over the top Bulls*it...!!!!!!!

Sewertoons said...

Right on Mike!!!!!

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE: It seems to be getting stuffy in that closet.

Lynette, there are no "sewer parks"

Once morewith feeling: "Facts are stubborn things"

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

How do you think your favorite Muslim president is doing with the congressional address?

To me, a tax cut for 95% of American families, no tax increases for 3% of families and increases for only the top 2% (heck, the tax rate for those folks will still be lower than during the Nixon years and maybe even the Reagan years) of families sounds pretty much like traditional Republican things to support.

Why did only a few Republicans cheer for these tax cuts for the majority of citizens?

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE:

Be careful what you wish for.
-You might want to pay closer attention to your own wallet or not, it won't be any skin off my nose.

Watershed Mark said...

I will read his address tomorrow and let you know.
The devil is always in the details.

Is Obama a Muslim?
Like you Steve, I am only responsible for my own behavior.

Watershed Mark said...

I am happy that you think that Los Osos is my only "basket", it means I'm doig my job properly!!

Mike said...

More Bulls*it, but did I see anything about what WM stands to make...??? I may have missed the million dollar answer, but I was more interested in hearing the President of the United States than reading the mad ramblings of a sales person who has not sold one product in what, 3 years??? 4 years???

How many of us can sit around blogging all day and not tend to our business...???? Just how much does that so called sales person stand to make...????? Some of us are lucky enough to catch a few moments during the day, but WM apparently has no other sales leads and so has plenty of time to rail on about how wonderful he is and how bad we are... Oh well, I've sent in my survey... and it sure wasn't for any form of STEP....

STEP may be a very good technology, but I sure would not want to have one cent of my taxes go to the snakeoil sales persons as out of touch with reality as WM...!!! Maybe there is a better STEP sales person, but it sure is not WM....!!!!!!!!!!!

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

Jindal's response is beautiful ... he criticized Bush!

GetRealOsos said...

Realistic-

Tri-W ESHA was view shed, had Indian remains (is that why the dirt was hauled off in the dark to a creek and dumped? Hmmmm...) has (had) kangaroo rats, and the trees were home to many birds and owls.

Only a fool would want a park next to a treatment plant breeding immune pathogens. (I bet these same people are in favor of imported mercury water too!!)

Yes, now Jeff Edwards can build his shopping centers with new houses next door (unless the County really does want Tri-W and it looks like they do from the "survey")

Jeff could HAVE NEVER cleared out the Tri-W ESHA land without Pandora's help (and Julie Tacker of course--the "same sewer out of town working for Jeff all along girl") and the recalled board destroying ESHA for a treatment plant.

P.S. If this LO sewer project is the largest project in the County's history, how could they expect a small town's CSD to accomplish such a job???

P.P.S...and Mark is right about the Tri-W site, it looks so awful and was quite stunning before they cut the trees down, the land HAS eroded -- and fools wanted a treatment plant there? What fools!!

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE,
Why so angry? You are confused if you think I represent a collection system. SHEESH.

It is way past time for you to come on out of that closet and get some fresh air.

Did Jindal have anything besides criticism to offer?

I'll read both speeches when I have time.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Jindal didn't really criticize Obama's remarks at all. It seems like his reply was written before Obama talked and they didn't bother rewriting anything afterwards.

Jindal did the usual Republican shtick ... big government and spending bad ... health care bad ... debt bad ... The problem is that if one was gonna pick apart Jindal's response, the Republicans could be blamed as much for the problems he cited if not more than the Democrats ... heck, Jindal cited Katrina as evidence that government doesn't work.

Mike said...

Hey GRO.... Be sure to also thank Lisa Schicker, the knowledgeable biologist, for not removing/repairing the fence... and she knew back in 2003 just what was required by the Fed Fish & Game... coulda/shoulda got that permit... but in her typically vindictive manner, she simply dumped the mess on the new Board... Oh well, Los Osos is getting a sewer... Maybe in your backyard....????

GetRealOsos said...

Hey Mike,

At least Lisa didn't destroy ESHA, ruin view shed property, dig up bones, destroy the homes of birds, deer, owls, and make way for Jeff's awful shopping center.

That's more than I can say for YOU!!!

GetRealOsos said...

Mike,

Oops! Lisa didn't kill any kangaroo rats either!!!

More than I can say for YOU!!!

Watershed Mark said...

Now, if we’re honest with ourselves, we’ll admit that for too long, we have not always met these responsibilities – as a government or as a people.

I have appointed a proven and aggressive Inspector General to ferret out any and all cases of waste and fraud.

Still, this plan will require significant resources from the federal government – and yes, probably more than we’ve already set aside.

The only way this century will be another American century is if we confront at last the price of our dependence on oil and the high cost of health care; the schools that aren’t preparing our children and the mountain of debt they stand to inherit. That is our responsibility.

We have also made the largest investment in basic research funding in American history – an investment that will spur not only new discoveries in energy, but breakthroughs in medicine, science, and technology.

In a global economy where the most valuable skill you can sell is your knowledge, a good education is no longer just a pathway to opportunity – it is a pre-requisite.

These words stand out.

Watershed Mark said...

Information is not knowledge.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Imagination is everything. It is the preview of life's coming attractions.
Albert Einstein

So do these.

Watershed Mark said...

Republicans are ready to work with the new president to provide those solutions. Here in my state of Louisiana, we don't care what party you belong to, if you have good ideas to make life better for our people. We need more of that attitude from both Democrats and Republicans in our nation's capital. All of us want our economy to recover and our nation to prosper. So where we agree, Republicans must be the president's strongest partners. And where we disagree, Republicans have a responsibility to be candid and offer better ideas for a path forward.
The strength of America is not found in our government. It is found in the compassionate hearts and the enterprising spirit of our citizens.

While some of the projects in the bill make sense, their legislation is larded with wasteful spending. It includes $300 million to buy new cars for the government, $8 billion for high-speed rail projects, such as a "magnetic levitation" line from Las Vegas to Disneyland, and $140 million for something called "volcano monitoring." Instead of monitoring volcanoes, what Congress should be monitoring is the eruption of spending in Washington, D.C.

We place our hope in you, the American people. In the end, it comes down to an honest and fundamental disagreement about the proper role of government.

We have the most innovative citizens, the most abundant resources, the most resilient economy, the most powerful military, and the freest political system in the history of the world. My fellow citizens, never forget: We are Americans. And like my dad said years ago, Americans can do anything.



Steve wrote:
Jindal's response is beautiful ... he criticized Bush!
Steve,
Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal gave the GOP response to President Barack Obama's address to a joint session of Congress. The following is a transcript of the speech as delivered on Tuesday night. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/24/sotn.jindal.transcript/
Please cut and paste the “criticism” you referred to above.

Watershed Mark said...

In the meantime, plans are lagging for a new generation of factories that were supposed to produce ethanol from substances like wood chips and crop waste, overcoming the drawbacks of corn ethanol. That nascent branch of the industry concedes it has virtually no chance of meeting Congressional production mandates that kick in next year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/business/12ethanol.html?_r=1

Due to the current economic situation, some ethanol plants are being forced to close. It is doubtful that the industry will be able to meet production goals that were set by congress.

-Some solutions only make sense when times are good (for some) like $4.00/gallon gasoline.
So what else is new?

-ECOfluid USBF™ Technology is energy efficient by design and that my fellow Americans will ALWAYS make sense.
A Common Sense Solution that delivers real bang for the buck from the first day of the job.
Great News for those paying to solve their wastewater issues!

Churadogs said...

Richard posted: On 1:30 p.m. Feb 22 Richard sez:sez:"Having said my peace, I will bid you forever adieu as you stew in your doo-doo."

On 7:39 a.m. Feb 23 I reply: " Promise? "

Then, after having said his peace (sic) and bidding us forever adieu, Richard comes BACK on 10:39 a.m. Feb 23 and AGAIN on 11:15 a.m. to reply to Ron.

Am I missing something here? I thought "forever" meant, well, like, forever, not 24 hours?"

THEN, on 10:11 a.m Feb 24, less than 24 hours later, here's Richard, again, "LOL...chastising members of your own readership and telling them to go away! Where would your blog be if you chased-off all your readers?"

See why I say Richard makes stuff up? I didn't tell Richard to go away. He, himself, with his own little typing fingers, promised -- PROMISED -- that we'd heard the last of him FOREVER, then, like a bad penny, there he is again. And again. And again. And Richard calls ME a LIAR? Somebody, please explain to Richard what the word "forever" means.

Inlet sez:"A vote for the recall (for example) was a vote to delay paying and to continue polluting for at least four to six additional years."

Actually, had the county done what the county is doing now (and, please God everyone keep their fingers off the scale and let the Process work properly) a sewer plant would have been constructed out of town long ago, along with a vote by the community. The doomed Ponds of Avalon led to the doomed Tri W (Ron asks why the ponds of Avalon weren't moved to a different site when it was clear they wouldn't work. Excellent question. One I've asked and wondered about for years.That was the perfect time to do it.) which led to bait and switchy and the recall & etc. Had the original CSD realized they couldn't do what they said and gone back to the community and that resulted in something like what we've got now (i.e. The Process) we'd have had a system long ago.(and Paavo was exactly right when he said that the CSD didn't have the resources to do what the county is doing now.)

OH Mah GAWD, here's Richard . . . again . . ."Regarding Mark's latest boorish lessons on 'How to behave like a child; and loss all credibility while doing it', I hope Ann's blog can recover.

-R

12:42 PM, February 24, 2009"

And not even 24 hours have passed. Woa, "forever" keeps getting shorter and shorter.

Mark sez:"I’m still waiting for the expose on the SLO City issues, while Morro Bay continues to get a pass while it leaks raw sewage from its failed gravity collection system and underperforming treatment works."

the RWQCB was too busy trying and hanging The Los Osos 45 to spend any time putting CDOs and ACLs on the city of Morro Bay.

Mark sez:"RL doesn't live in the PZ. He won't be paying for the sewer or the "finacial" cost of ruining the habitat at Tri-W."

Please remember that the RWQCB is busily working on their County Stealth Onsite Wastewater Prohibiiton Plans, and once that's complete, I have a terrible feeling that this PZ business will come back to bite Los Osos on the butt and all the folks outside the PZ will end up cursing the day they had their houses stuck outside those lines drawn on that map by those uninformed (?) incompetent (?) clueless (?) folks at the RWQCB who didn't understand "basins."

Inlet sez:"Jindal's response is beautiful ... he criticized Bush!"

Bwahahahah. Wonder if that'll now be the Republican Mantra: Day Late & Trillions of Dollars Short.

Mark sez:"Some solutions only make sense when times are good (for some) like $4.00/gallon gasoline.
So what else is new?"

Actually, Obama's call for a carbon tax/cap&trade/etc is the ONLY thing that will allow capitalism to work in the amazingly spectacular way it can work. Remove the hidden subsidies for coal/oil/carbon based energy via tax breaks for those companies (and the share of military costs to protect those resources, the medical costs associated with burning oil/coal, etc.) then suddenly -- Ka-ZAM -- alternative sources end up being cheaper and then the marketplace can work its wonders. But so long as we keep pretending that gas is "cheap," we'll not change anything, until it's too late.

And now, let's start an office pool (or blog pool): How long before the "I'm Leaving You Guys FOREVER Boo-Hoo Richard" logs on AGAIN after PROMISING he was leaving FOREVER, then returning (again and again) to utter a flat-out lie - that I was telling my readers to go away (including him?) which is soooooo Richard. So, what's the guess: 23 hours 15 minutes? 22 hours, 47 minutes? 18 hours, 10 minutes?

Richard LeGros said...

LADY, YOU AIN'T FOOLIN' ANYONE!....

AND YOU KNOW IT TOO!

Of course you want me to go away...
Why?
My postings have exposed you for what you are really all about; i.e. that you are a diehard anti-sewer advocate who plays the process not because you want a 'clean process', but in a pathological attempt to prevent Los Osos from coming into compliance with State water laws.

Maybe one day you will be honest with your readers and fess up as to what you and your toadies are really doing.

-R

Mike said...

Keep on posting Richard... We need your honesty on this blog as we have only been reading BS from Ann, a hack wantabe "journalist" and a snakeoil sales person...

Thanks to you Richard, Shark, Realistic, 'Toons, Billy and the others who see thru the obstructionism of those extreme few who wish we would go away... but we won't....!!!!

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

Perhaps it was because you didn't watch Jindal, but as an example of how government doesn't work he cited the FEMA response to Katrina. He also ignored the fact that spending has increased under the Republican watch in the last 8 years far quicker than at any other time in the history of the US ... all while saying that we need less government. How does that work?

It seems that during the Republican administration it was big government as usual, but that it was a different sort of government. One where things were "privatized" in such a way that government bore all the risks but private enterprise reaped all the rewards.

The FEMA response to Katrina can only be laid at the foot of the Bush administration. Using that as an example how government does a poor job is both intellectually dishonest and a blaming of Bush.

Ron said...

Ann wrote:

"Ron asks why the ponds of Avalon weren't moved to a different site when it was clear they wouldn't work. Excellent question."

Sure is. And I know the answer to it. In fact, apparently, I'm the ONLY one that knows the answer to it. As I've reported, if the project HAD been moved at that time, it would have clearly shown that the project that Nash-Karner used to form the LOCSD in the first place, had failed.

THAT's why the project was never moved to a different site after Nash-Karner's ponding project failed.

She covered it all up... still is covering it all up, actually.

And, as I've also written numerous times, including in Three Blocks, had Nash-Karner NOT gone to the cover-up card in late 2000, almost certainly, the project would have just reverted back to the county's 1998 "ready to go" project, and right now, there would be a wastewater facility out by the middle school that would have been in operation for about five years now, at about $70 a month... had Nash-Karner NOT gone to the cover-up card in late 2000.

But, I know, I know... I'M the "mentally ill" one.

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron said...

Richard, I'm curious, what's your definition of "forever?"

Dr. LeGros wrote:

"I know you believe what you write."

Damn straight, I do. And, I'm not the only one that believes what I write.

For example, in a previous thread, you wrote:

"I agree though that her (Nash-Karner's) letter about 'fining the community' (oddly, that included herself too) was mean-spirited"

Here's where it gets weird for your, "I know you believe what you write," take.

I was the one that first broke that 'fining the community' story, at this link (using nothing but excellent, primary sources, as usual):

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2006/05/contrast.html

So, apparently, YOU believe what I write, too.

Her "strategy" to have the entire community of Los Osos "fined out of existence," was much more than just "mean-spirited," it was part of her on-going cover-up, obviously.

["("Please... is there any way to salvage the project??????????????????," and, "We MUST save this project!" Both quotes from, Pandora Nash-Karner, just one day after last September's recall election.)"

Ricky, when I say, "all... dots... connected," I mean, "ALL... DOTS... CONNECTED."

Wait'll you see what I've got in store for the end of my book... you're going to love my "alternative endings" (plural) finish. It's so beautiful.

Richard LeGros said...
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Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote:
Jindal's response is beautiful ... he criticized Bush!

Then I wrote:Steve,
Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal gave the GOP response to President Barack Obama's address to a joint session of Congress. The following is a transcript of the speech as delivered on Tuesday night. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/24/sotn.jindal.transcript/
Please cut and paste the “criticism” you referred to above.

Steve opined sans any cut and paste/proof: Using that as an example how government does a poor job is both intellectually dishonest and a blaming of Bush.

I Love LO!

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

Did you pass your literature, history and rhetoric classes in college?

Churadogs said...

Richard sez:"Of course you want me to go away...
Why?"

Richard, YOU are the one who said you were going away FOREVER, then 24 hours later, here you are back again, and now LYING about it all. Tsk, tsk.

Richard LeGros said...
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Ron said...

Sherlock LeGros wrote:

"No Ron, I do not believe one iota of your conspiracy theory about Pandora."

Uh, actually, Sherlock, for something to be a "conspiracy," it has to involve more than one person.

So, I'm not alleging a conspiracy... yet.

I can't, waaaa-AAAy beyond a reasonable doubt, show that there were other people involved in Nash-Karner's cover-up, (although I do have a STRONG journalistic hunch that Hensley, Gustafson, and Buel were... that certainly would explain Gordo's "scorched earthness" since the recall).

Nope. It's just her, for now.

But, clearly, you didn't/don't know about her cover-up, Richard. That's why you write what you write today.

You did/do the trifecta of f-ups: 1) You listen to Nash-Karner, 2) you either don't read, or don't possess the wherewithal to mentally process my tight, tight reporting, AND 3) you don't independently do your own homework.

Enormous mistakes.

Like I wrote, they just USED you, Richard.

Ouch.

Sewertoons said...

Shark! You are so nice making the assumption that wsm actually WENT to college!