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Friday, March 06, 2009

Calhoun’s Can(n)ons, The Bay News, Tolsa Press, SLO Ca, for March 6, 09

Spanky-Spanky Time?

There’s a word for our state legislature: Dysfunctional. And there’s two words for the 40 California Republican legislators who, having signed onto Grover Norquist’s “Americans for Tax Reform” pledge, a campaign being touted by the bloviating radio talker, Rush Limbaugh, were willing to send their state over the cliff rather than compromise and get a budget done: Farcical Jihadis. Time to spank.

Consider the following tale of that upright gentleman, Mr. NoTaxes Smith. In 1973 he buys a house and sets a budget for the running of the house. He then joins the Holy Order of G. Norquist and takes a Blood Oath that he will NEVER, EVER raise the household budget, no matter what.

A few years later, Mr. N.T. Smith gets married, but he does not (cannot, Holy Orders, remember?) increase the household budget, telling his new bride they’ll just have to cut back on food. Soon, there’s the pitter-patter of little feet as a couple of little N.T. Smiths arrive, but the household budget is never increased, so the little tykes have to make do using second-hand paper towels for diapers. When the Smith’s health insurance increases, Mr. Smith announces that they’ll just have to drop some of the coverage, since he will not raise the household budget, but, instead, he announces that he’ll be cutting the budget and keeping that “extra” money in his personal bank account to spend as he sees fit. Alas, one of the little N.T.’s gets sick and since his illness is not covered under the now-reduced medical coverage, the wee bairn dies.

Meanwhile, the roof is leaking but the cost of fixing it has risen due to inflation, so Mr. NT decides to tack some plastic over the hole and postpone spending any more money and once again, cuts the budget even more and uses that money to buy himself a big screen TV. (After all, he knows best how to spend his own money.) Unfortunately, the roof patch doesn’t hold and soon the entire roof is rotten and threatens to cave in on the whole family. Mrs. Smith pleads with her husband to raise the household budget so they can at least keep a roof over their heads, but he’s adamant. NO NEW BUDGET EXPENSES, and explains that if he did raise the household budget, Rush Limbaugh wouldn’t like him any more. So there they sit, the rotten, rain-heavy roof creaking and groaning overhead.

In the real world, Mrs. Smith would kick her idiot husband to the curb, save her children, repair the roof and get on with it, knowing that budgets are and always must be subject to change as circumstances arise. And if the situation were the complete opposite -- a profligate Mr. Spend and Hock It All Smith who was burning through the family finances like a drunken gambler at a casino -- she’d also kick him to the curb, then budget cut to get things under control. In other words, in a real world, sane households and sane legislatures must always be negotiating, compromising, and adjusting to keep ahead of an often fast changing world.

Unfortunately, over the last 20 years, too many voters have forgotten that politics is the art of the possible, the art of actually getting something done, the art of half-a-loaf, which may not be perfect, but is half-a-loaf more than nothing. Instead, the voters allowed themselves to believe in ultimately destructive Ideological Magic: Politics is a zero sum game: For me to win, you must die; Wealth trickles down, so the more tax cuts for the wealthy, the better; Guns and butter can be paid for . . . later. . .; And while I benefit from the things taxes buy, I shouldn’t pay for it—The Other Guy should.

And so it goes, until you finally end up with 40 California legislators focused strictly on what’s good for their own political careers, pandering to partisan ideology rather than looking at the bigger picture, all of them sworn to blood oaths touted by a talk radio personality, and all of them willing to see their state crash and burn while they stand by and do nothing.

There’s a word for such politicians and the voters who keep electing them: Foolish.

93 comments:

Rick said...

It's this simple Ann:

When monetary policy has been exhausted (which is the case now), government at all level must both (1) cut taxes, and (2) *increase* spending.

So, what does our legislature do? Increases taxes and cuts spending.

Local schools have lost over $50m in this budget, and thousands of local jobs will be lost. For what? For a politicians' pledge in a time of prosperity?

Time for a new state Constitution.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

As has often been pointed out, the budget nightmare in California is the product of three things:

1 - Prop 13
2 - the 2/3 majority requirement to pass a budget
3 - term limits

Prop 13 has force the State into relying more in income taxes (which are far more variable across the years) than on the more stable property values. Simply put, revenues bounce around a whole lot more in California than in other states and it is harder to budget reasonably when the revenue stream can decrease by 20% from one year to the next.

The problem is compounded by the insistence that during "good years" that the money be given back to the people. If we make ends meet during bad years by deferring maintenance, we shouldn't, in good years, pretend that the bad year budgets are sufficient to really do the job. If you suffer from a leaky roof one year even though you can't afford to pay to have it fixed, you should fix it when you have the money. Pretending that the leaking roof doesn't matter and giving away $10k to charity instead isn't a wise longterm financial decision ... the leaky roof costs will increase quickly and down the road, it will cost far more than $10k to fix it.

I could talk more about higher ed and how the state is walking away from their stated obligation to educate people and the longterm costs this is imposing on our state along with term limits and the 2/3 requirement another time ... but the budget mess isn't easy to fix. At least or Governor has the right idea about how to fix some of the mess. The problem is that the Republican and Democratic extremists (about 70% of the legislators) are unwilling to go along for fears of upsetting their constituents who are, themselves, selfish and unwilling to pay the piper for the bennies they've demanded.

Watershed Mark said...

Time for California to secede...

Mike said...

Certainly time to quit sending water to Arizona...

Watershed Mark said...

Wrong again MIKE, actually California has taken more than its share of water for years until the feds physically locked down one of the pumps at Lake Havasu City, several years back.

Arizona has had a "proof of 100 year water supply" in place for more than a decade now. Some Arizona state reservoirs are at near record capacity and we are actually banking underground future potable water, thanks for asking. The Salt River Projectwhich supplies my drinking water is, for the first time since early the 1990’s, releasing water from its three dam system.

Speaking of LHC when you drive north or south on Interstate 95 several miles south of the airport where the treatment plant was sited due to odor and such, the newly commissioned force main pump station sells like a sewer every day. The odors wafting from that piece of engineering is such a lovely way to greet those entering and departing the city. I think the warranty period is close to being over, so I hope the “buyer” has lodged their complaint in writing.

Churadogs said...

Regarding Inlet's remarks on education: Interesting story in today's New York Times, country's undergoing one of those fundamental shifts/transformations away from "manufacturing" into . . .??? just what isn't clear yet . . but one thing is always sure during those fundamental shifts is the role education/re=education/training/re=-training plays in making that shift happen.(At the turn of the 19th century, the "public schools" were put into place to educate the quickly urbanizing farm folk and growing immigrant population which then trained them ready for the coming massive industrialization that turned this country into such a dynamo. Talk about a national transformation -- 1800 - 1900. Woa!. The same thing needs to be done now, to prepare for the massive . . . . something . . that's coming. Big changes require re-educated and re-trained people to make it happen.)

Watershed Mark said...

Los Angeles, California DWP pulls water from Lake Havasu as shown on page 5 and not LHC, which is a city in Arizona.
I wouldn’t want to get sideways like someone else who wrote there was a WWTP in a park, when there isn’t.

"Just the facts, ma'am"

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark is right about water except for one thing. California will not be able to count on much water from the Colorado River at all as we have in the past. However, Phoenix is in a huge water deficit ... they still pump more out of their aquifer than can be sustained. Maybe this new water project he refers to will help, but probably not enough.

On California's budget choices ... like businesses, California needs to do a bit of belt-tightening, soul-searching and careful-thinking about what we want to be like in 10, 20 and 30 years. In the past 20-30 years we have been largely selfish rather than budgeting for real needs.

California used to have one of the best education systems (K-grad school) in the world, let alone in the US. Since 1970, however, other states have been budgeting more per child for education than California but folks in California have been whining about paying for educating her citizens.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
As you must have access to information not readily available to the general public, please show us the facts and linkage you used to make your statements regarding Phoenix.

Why Phoenix’s water supply is number one
The city of Phoenix maintains access to several types of water supply including: surface water, groundwater, and effluent or “reclaimed” water. For normal years (in which our supplies are unaffected by drought), about 95 percent of customer drinking water demand is met with surface water from two major sources. Salt River and Verde River surface water is delivered through the Salt River Project (SRP) and Colorado River water is delivered via the Central Arizona Project (CAP) canal. The remaining five percent is groundwater pumped from city-owned wells. In addition, in recent years, reclaimed water has become the major irrigation supply for several parks and golf courses.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
I never wrote that California could count on Colorado River Water.

I did not refer to any new water project.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
I really am interested in just how you "stand up" to (shrink from) a simple request regarding your outrageously inaccurate statements regarding Phoenix's water supply.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...
Spin is the use of rhetorical devices to convince others of your opinion.

An argument is when you use facts and reason to convince others of your point of view.

Both are reasonable.
10:26 AM, March 06, 2009

Time to jump on that stationary cycle and start spinning Steve, if you want to be perceived as “reasonable”.

I just Love LO.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

Are you claiming that the aquifer under Phoenix is not in a difficult state?

I also did not suggest that you said that California could count on water from the Colorado ... that was my comment.

Sometimes I think you reply before you think.

Maybe you should read the book Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner for some history on water in the West.

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
I thoughtfully responded:
Steve,
As you must have access to information not readily available to the general public, please show us the facts and linkage you used to make your statements regarding Phoenix.

I further stated:
Steve,
I really am interested in just how you "stand up" to (shrink from) a simple request regarding your outrageously inaccurate statements regarding Phoenix's water supply.
You responded:

Mark,
Are you claiming that the aquifer under Phoenix is not in a difficult state?

Steve,
It obvious that you did not prove your statement: “Phoenix is in a huge water deficit ... they still pump more out of their aquifer than can be sustained.”
Instead you are all too Chatty Kathy and cute in an attempt to spin your way out of being exposed as an “idiot”. No wonder you are in fear of losing your job.

You have demonstrated to me again that you are acting like feckless fool

You have been caught in your own trap even if you don’t realize it.

Watershed Mark said...

Lyneete, Steve:
Spin this:

Homeowners who had planned to use home equity to pay for the assessment and/or connection costs may find they no longer have equity. For those homeowners who have enough equity, loans may be possible; however the new regulations for borrowing have tightened. Further, if one has a low or fixed income, qualifying income and the debt ratio must meet strict regulations. Seniors who might have considered a Reverse Mortgage may think twice before locking in current home values which have significantly been devalued.
Homeowners who are forced to move because they cannot afford the LOWWP costs may find themselves having to sell their home for less value than they owe. Or, they may be unable to sell at all and experience default or foreclosure. According to RealtyTrac, January 2009, there are approximately 40 properties in the PZ that are in default or bank-owned.
Renters will have a similar experience in that they may be forced to move due to LOWWP costs passed through from the property owner.
Estimates can be made and they can be challenged. But, the facts are fairly clear that there will be a significant financial impact on a very large portion of the Assessment Area population that the County will need to take into account. Unfortunately, no one has given this much attention and unless the sewer costs are made affordable, or grant programs established, or some creative financing programs are put into place, there will be a very difficult situation at hand.
Additionally, the EPA and the SRWCB will be looking at costs and funding options. The cost burden will not escape scrutiny.

I just sent the entire 8 page (Un)Affordabilty Report to Steve and Lyneete. Anyone else who wants a copy, just ask them or me, as you wish.

Watershed Mark said...

Summary
The proposed cost for the Los Osos Wastewater Project (LOWWP) presents serious affordability issues for up to 60% of the Prohibition Zone (PZ) residents.
Overview
Affordability for the LOWWP is of significant concern for a predominant majority of residents in the PZ. County preliminary estimates indicate the project may cost $165 million.
Project cost for each single-family residential parcel is expected to be $25,000. This cost was published with the 218 Vote of 2007. It was explained that an assessment will be included in each property owner’s Annual Tax Assessment. While one can pay the entire amount up front, it is not likely that most will do this. Thus, assessments will be $1,800 per year or $150.00 per month. Additional costs will include: monthly fees for operation and maintenance and that has been estimated to be $250.00 per month. Another homeowner expense will be the one-time cost to decommissioning a septic tank and hook up to the sewer. Since these additional costs have not been presented to the community, this analysis only considers the Assessment Fee of $25,000 per single-family residential parcel.

5,000 X $25,000.00=$165,000,000.00 Do the math folks, you will be paying for it and it does not add up.

Watershed Mark said...

Or you can continue to engage in and read the misdirection that many of you seem so satisfied and contented with.

Funny how quickly the subject changed to and away from "STIMULUS MONEY".

What's up with that?

mark said...
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mark said...
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mark said...
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mark said...

Lyneete wrote: we'd have our plant NOW- and YES OUR PARK,... 7:33 PM, March 07, 2009

So Lyneete wants LO to be the first community to have a WWTP located within and upon a community park, but doesn’t want any improved technology used.

I find her “desire” to be just a “little” hypocritical as that has never been done before, so it would be "experimental”.
It must be getting tough to keep all that non-sense straight she keeps juggling and writing here.

I just Love LO…

mark said...

According to data complied by the California Realtor’s Association, homes in San Luis Obispo County lost 40% of value from the peak price in June 2006 to September 2008.
• According to DataQuick, the median sales price in Los Osos in September 2008 was $397,500
Which is a 6.9 percent decline from September 2007’s median price of $427,000

• Looking back to April 2007, which had a median price of $437,000, the decline to September 2008 is 9.4%

• DataQuick’s most recent sales figures are for November 2008; the median price for Los Osos was $348,000 which was a decline of 12.5% from September 2008 and 20.4% from April 2007.

Lyneete, Steve: What hapened to the spin cycle? I guess we should call a repairman...
MIKE, abs, r, anyboby?

Watershed Mark said...

From: Shark Inlet [mailto:sharkinlet@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 10:24 AM
To: Mark Low
Cc: sewertoons@gmail.com
Subject: Re: AFFORDABILITY REPORT.doc

I guess you want me to say that this means that your device is the best.

Convince the County!

If they are playing the role of "the decider", they are the ones to convince.

Certainly I am angry both about the formation of the LOCSD and about the recall. You are bringing up yet another reason to be angry at everyone in Los Osos politics but Richard and Joe and Maria.

S

On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Mark Low Mark@nowastewater.com wrote:
Lyneete, Steve:
Spin this:

Homeowners who had planned to use home equity to pay for the assessment and/or connection costs may find they no longer have equity. For those homeowners who have enough equity, loans may be possible; however the new regulations for borrowing have tightened. Further, if one has a low or fixed income, qualifying income and the debt ratio must meet strict regulations. Seniors who might have considered a Reverse Mortgage may think twice before locking in current home values which have significantly been devalued.
Homeowners who are forced to move because they cannot afford the LOWWP costs may find themselves having to sell their home for less value than they owe. Or, they may be unable to sell at all and experience default or foreclosure. According to RealtyTrac, January 2009, there are approximately 40 properties in the PZ that are in default or bank-owned.
Renters will have a similar experience in that they may be forced to move due to LOWWP costs passed through from the property owner.
Estimates can be made and they can be challenged. But, the facts are fairly clear that there will be a significant financial impact on a very large portion of the Assessment Area population that the County will need to take into account. Unfortunately, no one has given this much attention and unless the sewer costs are made affordable, or grant programs established, or some creative financing programs are put into place, there will be a very difficult situation at hand.
Additionally, the EPA and the SRWCB will be looking at costs and funding options. The cost burden will not escape scrutiny.

Steve,

I hope this isn't your best effort...
We still need to finish up the Phoenix ground water discussion or are you on your back for that one too?

It's too bad the people of LO/BP are so "whipsawed"...

Watershed Mark said...

For Lyneete:

NITRATE FACT SHEET
The Environmental Protection Agency has set a drinking water limit at 45 parts per million (ppm) . The law says that no public water supply can exceed this limit.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

Again, you put my private e-mail to you into a public forum. I thought that letting you know that I did not approve of that practice would sufficiently tell you that I wouldn't be communicating with you via e-mail if you continued with that practice.

Fool me once ...

So then ... on the issue at hand (and you did read Cadillac Desert, didn't you?) ... the fact that home values have dropped is not an argument for or against any particular technology but an unfortunate reminder that perhaps the recall, in retrospect, was stupider than even those of us who were opposed to the recall thought it would be at that time.

Interest rate and market value calculations are not spin, but fact. Unfortunately the clarity these facts give us makes us even angrier at those who promised a "better solution" but who gave us something that was far more expensive and worse.

Funny thing ... I've heard before from other groups that they have the best solution and now we're hearing the same stuff from Mark.

Hm.....

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
It's tough to fool a fool so I appreciate your acknowledgement.

Marc Reisner’s Cadillac Desert is such a revisionist history. His focus on the creation of infrastructure to support Western settlement exposes a history, not of rugged individualism and romantic cowboys, but of the construction of a heavily subsidized and tremendously expensive ‘‘hydraulic society,’’ founded on and maintained by the greed and competitiveness that is behind the American Dream. Reisner examines the West’s ecologically dangerous, and ultimately harmful, dependence on dams and aqueducts, as Americans pursue the ideal of taming the Great American Desert. The author focuses on the relentless building of dams and irrigation systems, as well as the corruption behind these developments, to show how the American need to control the environment has affected (and still does affect) the ecological welfare of national resources. Reisner also describes the rivalry between two governmental powers, the Bureau of Reclamation and the U.S. Army Corps of Engi neers, in their attempts to transform the nature of the American West.

The year it was published, Reisner’s book became a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award. In 1999, Cadillac Desert was placed sixty-first on the Modern Library list of the most notable nonfiction English books of the twentieth century. Reisner’s book has inspired an entire generation of historians and historically aware environmental activists.

Steve:
Please link us to the part of the book that supports your statement or whatever document you are basing the statement below upon:
“Phoenix is in a huge water deficit ... they still pump more out of their aquifer than can be sustained.”

I would be happy to continue “flushing” this topic out with you, but you may be content to concede that my information is more concise, accurate and current than yours and let it go or you can whine about it some more like Lyneete and her SEWER PARK misunderstanding, your choice. Why not, “be here now”, Steve.

Regarding home values/equity slippage and tightened lending guidelines, that is new information which should/must at least result in a review of the 2007 game plan, don't cha think?

After all in August 2007 then SLOCO Deputy Public Works Director Paavo Ogren stated on the record:

"If there is a less expensive technology then that technology becomes the new standard and EVERYTHING else falls away"...

Was he serious or was that just an awful joke being played upon the citizens who pay his salary?

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote: Convince the County!

If they are playing the role of "the decider", they are the ones to convince.

Steve,
If they are "playing" the role of decider why did they:

Not co-equally review LPS?
Not co-equally review USBF™?

Why weren’t these well proven “less expensive” technologies part of their study and more importantly why weren’t the included in their survey?
These technologies come with “pricing” because they are largely pre-engineered and are not subject to typical “project bloating” like conventional gravity and extended aeration do.

This county process has not included a complete review of “alternatives”.
The detailed billings submitted by the consulting engineers should prove insightful.

Mike said...

Lot's and Lot's of Whining...

But of course, no Action by the outsiders...only whining and hollow words...

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Why did the County ignore USBF?

Just a theory here, but perhaps they were put off by the salesman.

Technical note: we don't know that the County did ignore Mark's company. To me it seems rather likely that Mark's firm simply did not submit the necessary proof that his company had the ability to do the job properly.



Mark,

Lemmie ask you a question. Is there any reason other firms could not have used USBF as part of their proposed solutions for Los Osos? Can only you install these devices or could another company buy some from you and put them in?

alabamasue said...

Shark,
I don't think Mark could sell you anything. He's just some random guy trying to get a finder's fee if the County goes with this scheme. In fact, if you emailed ECOfluid (info@ECOfluid.com), I'll bet they've never even heard of him.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,

Why is the county ignoring USBF™ now?
Why is the county ignoring LPS now?

Isn’t the county interested in saving money?
Paavo Ogren stated that “less expensive becomes the new standard”…

My correspondence trail to the county began in late 2006.
I was directed to Carollo Engineers in early 2008.

Fortunately there are detailed billings.

Your questions regarding “the process” continue to illustrate that you are simply stuck on stupid.
I cannot put it any other way, as the documents that are sitting on the county’s website prove my point.

Please read the RFQ and the DEIR Comments “c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y” should you want to get up to speed…
I now understand why Ron “THE MAN” Crawford doesn’t read you anymore. I am close to being there myself.

"You can lead a donkey to water, but can't make it drink"

Watershed Mark said...

abs,

Why so bitter?
You aren't locked up anymore.

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE,

I'm expecting the Three Million Dollars worth of detailed invoices the county has paid so far.

Putting forward an FOIA Request qualifies as "action" in my book.
And that's not all I have been working on, more later.

Come on out of the stupid stuffy closetyour in and get some light and fresh air.
The "change" will do you good.

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE,
What "insiders" are you refering to?

You're not one of them I hope...

Watershed Mark said...

My correspondence trail to the county began in late 2006.
I was directed to Carollo Engineers in early 2008.

CORRECTION: I was directed to Carollo Engineers in early 2007.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

Stop being such a dolt. I was asking about whether other companies can use your product for a reason. Please don't read into my question something I did not ask.

So then ... the question remains ... does EcoFluid forbid others from using their technology? Rephrased a bit, does EcoFluid make deals themselves with organizations like the County, or would they be open to others, like, for example, Bob's Sewer (Inc), buying a whole bunch of Reclamators (oops...) EcoFluid-5000's and installing them in a place like Los Osos?

The reason I ask this question is this ... if you are willing to sell your device as a part of someone else's sewer proposal, you might need convince private enterprise that your device will really work. After all, if it is as good and as cheap as you say, these private companies can make a killing by adopting this new technology.

Let's re-phrase. If USBF is that much cheaper and better as you say, why hasn't it become the defacto standard across the industry in the last 10 years? Paavo is right. If there is something which really is better and cheaper, it takes over. The fact that your device hasn't really done that makes me wonder whether your device is as good as you tell us (repeatedly).

That being said, please convince us that a sizable fraction of communities who need the sort of device your firm provides actually choose your device. If you're not willing to do other basic common sense things like provide data to folks who say they are interested in seeing it, you should at least tell us how often your device is chosen by others.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,

I don't know where to begin, so I won't.

Mike said...

...since he has not "sold" any of his devices, he can't begin...

As usual just a lot (a whole lot!) of sales BS... We knew he was just another salesperson with just another septic tank...

Watershed Mark said...

From: twright@co.slo.ca.us [mailto:twright@co.slo.ca.us]
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:32 PM
To: mark@nowastewater.com
Subject: FIOA Request


Mr. Low,

I have located the files containing the requested information. Per our telephone conversation this afternoon, we are requesting payment for making copies of the contents of the files. These files contain 422 pages. We charge $0.10 per page ($42.20) + tax at 7.75% ($3.27). Total charge = $45.47. Please send payment to the address below to my attention:


County of San Luis Obispo
Public Works Department
County Government Center, Room 207
San Luis Obispo, CA 93408

As soon as we receive payment we will mail the copies to you at PO Box 1355 Mesa, Arizona 85211

Thank you.

Trisha Wright
Supervising Administrative Clerk II
County of San Luis Obispo
Department of Public Works
(805) 781-5287

Watershed Mark said...

It's actually FOIA, but anyone can make a mistake.

The beauty lies in acknowledging and correcting it before it is too late.

"If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive, then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away"
-Paavo Ogren

Watershed Mark said...

"We knew he was just another salesperson with just another septic tank"
-MIKE from his closet

Sewertoons said...

Hi Alabamasue!

Thank you for posting today! I was waiting to bring out this information that I received from Justin Hebner of ECOfluid, a very helpful and courteous representative of that company. I had a couple of E's with him and I will cut and paste the relevant parts:

From Mr. Hebner:

To clarify, Mr. Mark Low is an associate who we have successfully worked with on previous USBF™ (Upflow Sludge Blanket Filtration) projects. He has excellent understanding and knowledge of the USBF™ technology process.

Some time ago he approached us about supporting him in his pursuit to utilize USBF™ for the project in Los Osos, CA, which we have done and continue to do.

We were not privy to Mr. Low's blogs. Mr Low is a free agent and while we support his efforts on the technical level, his blogs do not represent ECOfluid's opinions and business practices.

What may be difficult to meet though is the requirement of being able to produce 10 years of data. In North America the low nitrogen requirement is relatively recent and in some jurisdictions only. In other words we have not been required to work to these levels in North America in the past.

Mike said...

"...a free agent...his blogs do not represent ECOfluid's opinions and business practices."

Just another commission driven sales person who has no idea to whom he is attempting to sell... "IF" SLO County were interested in ECOfluid, they would surely have grown tired of that obnoxious sales person and gone directly to the parent company... or they have decided that if he is representative of the ECOfluid Company, then that door is now closed... Either way, it appears we will not be seeing ECOfluid products of services in LO...

There are many other providers and they aren't nearly as abrasive...!!!

Thanks 'Toons... WM is apparently too stupid to understand what we have all tried to explain, maybe Mr. Hubner will check out this blog and cut loose his "free agent"... Buffalo seems to pick up free agents who think they are bigger than the game....

Watershed Mark said...

McClatchy Newspaper Inc. Treasurer Elaine Lintecum was asked if The Tribune was for sale, and facing financial difficulties if such a sale did not occur within 30 days.
“That is speculation. We don’t comment on speculation or news that hasn’t been released to the public,” she said. The Tribune’s parent company, McClatchy Newspapers Inc, said today it will reduce its workforce by 15 percent, or around 1,600 full-time equivalent employees, and cut wages for remaining staff as part of previously announced restructuring plans.

In September, a group of county investors, hoping to keep The Tribunelocally owned, revealed attempts to purchase the struggling daily from its parent company. Sources said today that possibility still exists.

Newspapers throughout the country are stretched thin as they struggle with decreased readership and mounting debts. McClatchy, the country’s third largest newspaper chain, was more than $2 billion in debt at the end of 2008.

In 2007, McClatchy's stock plunged nearly 70 percent. In January 2008, stock sold for approximately $10 a share. And this afternoon, following today’s announcement, stock fell 30 percent to 41 cents a share.

The words "News" and "Back to Basics"

Watershed Mark said...

Sincerely Lyneete?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Low [mailto:Mark@NOwastewater.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:31 PM
To: 'Justin Hebner'; 'luneto@charter.net'
Subject: RE: Sales Representative Mark Low


Hello Justin,

Lynette (Sewertoons) works with Bruce Gibson, so I trust that she will share your response with Chairman Gibson, his Board and their Staff. There is absolutely no reason, "other than sabotage," to write that kind of disingenuous email re: "competing salesmen." Her fishing expedition is a sure sign I have touched a nerve that now requires special attention.

As you know the county's consulting engineer has tried and is trying to ignore USBF(tm) - that's what they try first, and then, if you don't go away, they'll try to eliminate USBF(tm) on some microscopic technicality, that never existed and does not exist for leaky sewerage or the treatment technologies that were brought forward in the RFQ and DEIR. That's "the process." You know the drill.

There is no 10 year test results requirement that is an urban legend. USBF(tm) would be approved by the WaterBoard should it be presented.
I fully appreciate your support and I believe Los Osos will yield positive results.

Best regards,

Mark Low
602.740.7975 voice
480.464.0405 facsimile
Mark@NOwastewater.com
P.O. Box 1355 Mesa, Arizona 85211
Spero Meliora "I aspire to greater things"


-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Hebner
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:14 PM
To: luneto@charter.net
Cc: Mark Low
Subject: Fw: Sales Representative Mark Low

Dear Ms. Lynette Tornatzky:

Thank you for the clarification of your particular situation at Los Osos, which we clearly are not familiar with. You raised a few points that we would like to address...

1. We are not represented by a Mr. Dean? nor are we familiar with a Mr. Dean ?.

2. You mention that the treatment plant needs to meet 7 mg/l nitrogen. You did not mention whether it is Total Nitrogen (TN) or Total Inorganic Nitrogen (TIN) but in either case we can meet it and have been meeting it in a number of plants. Please see the attachments (Mill Bay, Nitrogen Reduction Memorandum). What may be difficult to meet though is the requirement of being able to produce 10 years of data. In North America the low nitrogen requirement is relatively recent and in some jurisdictions only. In other words we have not been required to work to these levels in North America in the past. The one jurisdiction where the nitrogen requirement was introduced some time ago is the Alpine region of Italy. There were a number of the USBF™ plants installed as early as the nineties. Typical requirement there was TN of less than 10 mg/l. Please see attached results of two plants Pinzolo and Madonna di Campiglio, where the limit was met and exceeded.

3. We were not privy to Mr. Low's blogs. Mr Low is a free agent and while we support his efforts on the technical level, his blogs do not represent ECOfluid's opinions and business practices.

Once again, thank you for your information and comments. Please feel free to contact us anytime.

Kind regards,

Justin Hebner
ECOfluid Systems Inc.

----- Original Message -----
From: luneto@charter.net
To: "Justin Hebner"
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Sales Representative Mark Low



Dear Mr. Hebner,

Thank you for you quick and courteous reply! I just wanted to clarify that Mr. Low does represent your company with someone from ECOfluid.
Another local resident claims that a Mr. Dean (sorry, lost his last name) represents your company. So I wanted to identify from whom we were to get our information on your technology.

We Los Osians who blog with Mr. Low regularly (on a local blog that deals frequently with sewer issues) seem to be unable to extract from him information that would either make your product viable for Los Osos or not. We are under a Central Coast Water Board edict to get a sewer in Los Osos by 2011 or cease using our septic tanks. I don't know if you are aware of the contentious 30-year history of the Los Osos sewer or not, but it has divided our community and caused the state of California to take the sewer out of local control and bequeath it to our county, San Luis Obispo. The Water Board, a prime permitting agency out of many, has disallowed an technology that cannot deliver water that meets 7ml/L nitrogen on average. They have required of 10 years of data on past projects. Prior proposed project that did not meet this standard were disallowed. Does your product have records to support that allowable quantity of Nitrogen for a 1.2MGD plant using your technology or not? Mr. Low will not state if he has this data or not, but intimates that he does.

Of lesser importance to us but perhaps more to you, the content of Mr. Low's blog postings has on occasion been dismissive and very unhelpful to us. (He posts under the blog name of "Watershed Mark." You may find a sample of such at this link, http://calhounscannon.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html.

Read the postings for THURSDAY, JANUARY 29, 2009, titled, "Les Miz From A New Perspective" or his comments from any other blog stories at http://calhounscannon.blogspot.com.) Does he represent how your company does business?

ECOfluid seems to be a reputable company dealing in forward thinking technology. Whether or not this would work in Los Osos is the question at hand and we cannot tell from Mr. Low's postings (and voluminous e-mails to some of us) if he even contacted the County with his data in a timely fashion or not.
Any clarification you might have in this matter would be useful to us concerned with getting a sewer for our community. Thank you very much for your time and attention to Los Osos.

Sincerely,
Lynette Tornatzky
(805) 534-9196

---- Justin Hebner wrote:
Dear Lynette Tornatzky:

Thank you for your recent enquiry.

To clarify, Mr. Mark Low is an associate who we have successfully worked with on previous USBF™ (Upflow Sludge Blanket Filtration) projects. He has excellent understanding and knowledge of the USBF™ technology process.

Some time ago he approached us about supporting him in his pursuit to utilize USBF™ for the project in Los Osos, CA, which we have done and continue to do.

Please feel free to contact myself or Mr. Low for any further questions or requests for clarification and information.


Kind regards,

Justin Hebner

ECOfluid Systems Inc.
Tel: (604) 662-4544 ext. 122
Fax: (604) 662-4564
www.ECOfluid.com


-----Original Message-----
From: luneto@charter.net [mailto:luneto@charter.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:02 PM
To: info@ecofluid.com
Subject: Sales Representative Mark Low


TWIMC,

Is your product line represented by a person named Mark Low? Do you have competing salesmen in this area? I live in Los Osos, California, USA.
Thank you for your reply in advance.

Lynette Tornatzky
(805) 534-9196

Watershed Mark said...

Lyneete wrote: "Another local resident claims that a Mr. Dean (sorry, lost his last name) represents your company. So I wanted to identify from whom we were to get our information on your technology."

Honestly Lynette, is there a Mr. Dean (sorry lost his last name)?

I Love LO!

Watershed Mark said...

BTW, The County’s plan will not treat wastewater within the PZ so the 7mg TIN monthly limit won't apply. The current bell and spigot design will leak full strength wastewater into the PZ.

The technology they listed in their DEIR will produce secondary water or 20mg/l TIN that is "upgradeable to tertiary" which is what USBF™ produces by design for allot less capital cost and half the energy of an ox-ditch and less than half of a Bio-Lac™ designs.

Lyneete wrote: I heard a rumor that County staff monitors the blogs to hear the buzz about town and that they report to the higher ups. I wonder if that is true?

Lyneete,

A Hundred Million Dollars savings is "Big Money" and certainly the stakes are high which is one reason I choose to work on the LOSTDEP.
I will continue to work for the good citizens of LO/BP to help them save money and conserve energy.

The time to talk the talk has past.
It is now time to walk the walk.

Watershed Mark said...

“That is speculation. We don’t comment on speculation or news that hasn’t been released to the public,” -said. McClatchy Newspaper Inc. Treasurer Elaine Lintecum

Holding onto and weighing what “news” to release or report on and what not is one reason folks don’t want or need newspapers anymore.
Where have the investigative reports and the “EXTRA” editions gone?

It isn’t just the SLO Tribune that is in trouble, newspapers everywhere are feeling the pinch of better technology delivering a better product.
“If there is a significantly less expensive technology, then that technology becomes the new standard and all the others fall away”- Paavo Ogren 8-07

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

I thought it appropriate to share this from my review of my son’s 5th grade homework tonight.
It seems timely as some don't seem to understand the basis for their God Given and Constitutionally Guaranteed Rights. Let Freedom RING!

When news of the Declaration of Independence (always worth reading) reached the colonists they celebrated by firing cannons and guns and tearing down a statue of the king.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

So Mark ... you are rather fond of giving us that Paavo quote. I trust it is because you believe your new technology is less expensive and/or better.

If that is the case (and it sounds pretty reasonable to me) ... you've got to explain why your method hasn't taken over the entire market? If it's that much better and/or cheaper, logic stands to reason that everyone nationwide would be using this method now for their projects, however, you don't seem to be able to name more than 10 locations where it is being used.

Logic is a bitch when it bites you on the ass.

Mark, A->B <==> notB->notA. In this case, you are telling us that best implies takeover. The fact that USBF hasn't taken over implies it is not best.

The free market has spoken and she hasn't sided with your company.

Mark, why should the County or Los Osos want to adopt your product if other towns and counties uniformly adopt other systems instead?

Sewertoons said...

I would like to clarify for all bloggers reading that I do not "work" for Bruce Gibson, as nice as that would be. I'm sure he could verify that I do not.

Mike said...

Good Morning Shark... You are right on target...

If Mr Hubner or the free agent have such a perfect soluton, then I'm sure they will share a list of all the cities in North America in which the ECOfluid USBF(tm) is now installed... They won't have to do any further homework... We'll do the comparative analysis...

So... if there is such an overwhelming acceptance of the ECOfluid USBF(tm), we should have a list of cities by Noon today...

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE: Shoot me an email and I'll send you the list.
Lyneete: You “are” working "with" Bruce Gibson. Are you being honest about "a local resident and Mr. Dean_____?
Steve: If there was a technology that eliminated your job as a teacher and you had control over whether or not to study or "allow it", would you?

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

I thought that all Republicans believed that the free market solves all problems.

Are you really asking us to believe that there is a vast left-wing-conspiracy of wastewater engineers scratching each other's backs when there is really something better out there which is really proven to work? That's more ridiculous than the idea that the police set OJ up by sprinkling his blood at the scene of the crime to guarantee he would appear guilty.

Your "woe is me, I have the truth but no one will listen" routine doesn't sound very appealing. As you are the one who keeps saying that rhetoric without evidence is empty ... where is the proof that everyone is conspiring against Reclamators and EcoFluid6000s and Mark Low?

Your argument about wastewater professionals is the equivalent of IT professionals supporting big blue even though DEC is better or supporting DEC even though Sun is better or supporting Sun even though linux is better. Wastewater professionals who work for the County have as much an interest in supporting gravity as IT professionals who work for fortune 500 companies would have and interest in supporting IBM (or MicroSoft or whomever).

Your only argument against the freeflow of information causing efficiencies to increase is your belief that government will allow inefficiencies to occur ... but if that is the case, why have other treatment technologies been widely adopted (like STEP)?

Why, Mark, is it just you whom everyone is conspiring against? Either you are paranoid or your product is not as good as you think.

Watershed Mark said...

Government is inefficient by design.
Name one that is self sustaining or not in debt.

Stop trying to attribute your beliefs and words to me.

I have asked simple questions like: Why hasn't/isn't the county looking into proven and less expensive collection and treatment systems?
To date there has been no answer. Why?

Please cut and paste my words that you claim support my
definintion of "wastewater professionals".

Bring fact or get back on the porch.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

I have answered your question about why the County hasn't looked into your system in the way you want.

My theory is that they both have looked at the way you've handled yourself and the frequency of adoption of these systems at the 5000 household scale and decided that your system is unproven and that you are annoying.

Again, if your system is really good, why hasn't it been adopted nationwide and worldwide as the de-facto standard for wastewater treatment? That it hasn't would suggest that your system really isn't that good.

As you've not even offered a cogent theory of why your technology is being overlooked, you are pretty clearly blowing smoke.

Face it, if your technology really worked ... at all ... your boxes would be bought by other companies and hooked into their systems and those firms would make a killing buying the cheap solution from you and selling it to the municipalities and private corporations and counties and countries. The free market is just too efficient in these areas to keep your awesome device from taking over, even if someone is trying to line their own pocket, the huge savings elsewhere will cause everyone to beat a path to your doorstep.

Oh yeah ... you can't even list off even one town of size 10 thousand who is using your product, let alone show that it is taking over. Sounds like your product isn't that good.

As you say, "bring fact (sic) or get back on the porch." I guess you'll tell us when you've got that data for us about the percentage of new wastewater projects nationwide in the last five years who have adopted the RecEcoLaFluidMator6000 device. If you can't or won't it will speak volumes to your credibility and possibly to the quality of your device as well.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
"Theory is not an answer"…Especially yours.
I now know you haven’t read the data I sent.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

I dunno, Mark ... my theory certainly matches the available facts pretty well ... and considering it is a whole lot more believable than your theory of a vast conspiracy to deprive Mark of a commission ... I think it's pretty solid.

If you don't like my theory, provide some evidence that I'm wrong. For example, provide proof you're not annoying or that your device has been accepted by hundreds of communities and at least some the size of Los Osos have been using it successfully for years.

Watershed Mark said...

I did but you didn't read it or you don't understand it.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

Whatever you e-mailed me, I am saying that you should ... here ... list off, say, 20 towns about the size of Los Osos (5000 or more people) which are using your device.

So ... are you gonna prove to us that your device has been adopted or are you gonna convince us (yet again) that you aren't convincing people left and right that your device is awesome?

Mike said...

You're wasting your breath trying to chat with WM... He can't come up with 5 towns in the USA using the latest system he's touting... There are a few in Canada...but all are resort towns, spread out and not having the density of septic tanks that we have in Los Osos...

If you look into the ECOfluid USBF(tm), you'll find (surprise), the "Wrecklamator"... Just another version of an up-dated septic tank... it still will require maintenance and pumping... it's still going to smell like a septic tank... and for those who think the tank could be large enough to be a neighborhood cluster, think about the weight of a garbage truck passing over it every week and think about the weight of a fire truck parked on top of that tank lid... Certainly the weight can be handled by a much larger top, but don't let the sales folks make it sound like a small cost...

If LO were to go with these glorified septic tanks, the costs are going to be much much greater than a conventional gravity system... Don't be swayed by a commision driven salesman who doesn't care one bit about Los Osos...just how much he would like to make... You still want the ECOfluid USBF(tm), then cut out the middle man and go negotiate with the CEO of that company... We do have a large enough system requirement to get the attention of the heads of these type of companies...

But, let's not be nieve enough to think this blog will have anything to do with the ultimate decision of system and location...

We already know the costs will be much higher than any of the previous plans have been, just a fact of the incredible delays which have gained nothing... Our BOS and County Engineering are the only ones in position to bring about a sewer for Los Osos. They alone will be strong enough to provide the negotiating strength needed to hold costs down... Not going to happen as a result of any action by this blog or the extremists, nor by any sales person...

It's not going to be perfect, but it will begin the long process of halting pollution from our own septic waste...

Sewertoons said...

Thank you Mike!

On another note, I think this blog has degenerated into a gas passing device for venting the self-made frustrations of the world's worst salesman - no, wait - SECOND worst, Tom Murphy taking top "honors."

Watershed Mark said...

Lyneete,

So that is what passes for Honesty? Honestly??

Steve, Your hopelessly lost.

MIKE,
I see you are feeling that your "I love a big leaky polluting pipe dream" is a little threatened. Great!
Show us your facts. Oh wait you don't have any.
Your thinking that a leaky bell and spigt design will "halt" polution is laughable. Thanks.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

I trust from your silence on Mike's claims about the penetration of your device into the market that he is essentially right.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

I also note that your reply to Mike did not dispute in any way his assertion that the EcoFluid device and the Reclamator device are similar. Is this because he's essentially right?

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
If you don't read what I send or point you to, I cannot be held responsible that you don't understand.
As for MIKE, he is in deep denial. I cannot help him at all as he has no facts.

Watershed Mark said...

I have an idea Steve!
Send MIKE what I sent you.

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Yet again, in a public forum, when asked to provide information about which towns have adopted his device, Mark doesn't reply.

This is a public discussion.

Answering that "I've already e-mailed you the information" doesn't cut it. I read much of what you read and it shows that at a few sites, the nitrates, when measured, were low enough to make anyone happy. What you didn't send was any long-term nitrate monitoring results (you know, monthly readings over, say, a 5 year period) and any complete list of towns you've sold this device to.

As for mailing Mike ... I don't know his e-mail address, but even if I did, I would consider it the height of rudeness to e-mail him some 100M of files with no index and no summary and no "here's what to read 1st" (or analogous document).

Mark,

Perhaps if you can identify for me the document names and page numbers and perhaps even a graph or chart which are key it would be far friendlier than dumping some 500 pages on someone's (virtual) desk and saying "read it ... the answer's in there." That would be like me telling you to go read a standard 500 page intermediate soils/hydrology textbook and saying "here, read this, the answer's in there somewhere."

Last chance, Mark, are you gonna come forward with a list ... or is there no list of comparably sized towns which have adopted your machine? Any real representative would be all to happy to come forward with such information if it would reflect positively on his company. So ... who has bought your device?

Watershed Mark said...

Last chance Steve?
Wow, who died and left you King?

Watershed Mark said...

I just received notification that Bruce Gibson and Paavo Ogren were physically served a "packet" today at Sea Pines "office hours".

You may also look at the county's website on the DEIR comments page.

Perhaps Willy can look back and get you the address, if you don't have it book marked.

Mike said...

Hang in there Steve... a rude pretentious snakeoil sales person who thinks himself the almighty sewer king remains just another sales person with yet another product... If he doesn't sell, he doesn't make a living...

I'm having a hard time believing ECOfluid even acknowledges him... Tells me and probably the County Engineers just what to expect should they make the mistake of buying anything from that company... If I had a project manager/engineer talk to existing or potential clients in the tone we've all read or by beating around the bush as much as that sales person, I would have booted him or her out the door... My people represented the company and that arrogant attitude would not be tolerated... Maybe the canadian thinks it's cute, but it's not respected down here... It will afterall, be our money paying for the delays, not some failing sales person... He has avoided reality far longer than anyone should put up with... but this is Ann's blog and she apparently likes the caresses on her posterior from that sales person...

I do have faith and maybe a little knowledge that we won't have that particular sales person insulting Los Osos or receiving a commission when the shovels dig into the ground once more...

alabamasue said...

Hey Mike,
Guess who handed that "packet" to Paavo and Bruce? That would be the pink-bandana-wearing, shovel-toting, former lawyer for the Wrecklamator, Patrick Sparks. Guess he jumped ship and is now working for Mark. A real 'player'!

Mike said...

He better be collecting his fee up-front...

Sewertoons said...

alabamasue - I made the same comment up above somewhere about Sparks - he was at least in a suit today, not that it helped much. Gee - wsm has a swell rep in town - but hey, I guess it was the best he could do…

Mike, if I hadn't gotten that letter back from Justin Hebner, I would not believe it myself. Amazing they let him wreck their reputation like he does.

Watershed Mark said...

Lyneete,
Speaking of reputation, what about Mr. Dean ________?

alabamasue said...

Sewertoons,
I saw your post on another thread right after I posted my comment. I noticed that wsm said that the packet was "physically served" which means just handed to them, instead of claiming it was legally served, which is a horse of another color. LOL

Watershed Mark said...

Like "Mr. Dean_______" Lyneete?

Watershed Mark said...

This in today from another part of the country served up on a USEPA Listserve(blog)The right to make stupid decisions is the right of every American. Now it is time for regulators to do what they do best. Start at one end of the valley, pick a home, collect data showing contamination of off-site ground water, implement penalty action, move to next home, repeat. My guess is about 6 homeowners in jail or fined significantly will turn the electorate around.

Sound familiar?

Sewertoons said...

alabamasue, I was LOL at the "serving" itself -- it got way too much build-up for some crummy papers stapled together and handed over, but I had to control myself - Sparks was an empty chair away from me.

The verification word is "trial!" Gosh, no more lawsuits I hope - I wonder if Sparks has jumped ship from that absurd Murphy one?

Watershed Mark said...

So much misinformation so little time.

Worried over word verification. So little concern over "Honesty". Perfect!

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Mark,

Speaking of information, when are you going to tell us here the list of towns of size 5000+ who have bought your device du jour?

Remember, it is you who keeps reminding us that if a new system is better and cheaper, it would become the new standard. Let us know, are there any towns of size 5000 or more in the US who are using the EcoFluid product to handle their wastewater treatment needs?

If no names are forthcoming, we can only conclude that you are incorrect about the better and cheaper (is it quicker too?). Well, either that or that you are a rather horrible salesman who refuses to provide exactly the sort of information which would best sell his product.

Face it, the County and Los Osos are not in the market for an experimental product that hasn't been tested over in a town of this size. You are asking us to gamble on your fancy device because you will make a profit if we buy ... but you are downplaying the possibility of the device not working out and Los Osos getting in a worse situation later.

And if you pull out that red herring of "you just don't understand the process or the process" you are ducking the very specific question that has been asked of you.

Are you gonna show that you're honest or are you gonna duck the question yet again?

Watershed Mark said...

When the City of Lake Alfred decided to upgrade their existing 1 MGD trickling filters wastewater treatment plant, they looked at a number of technologies and after an evaluation decided on the USBF™ process.

Also, would please take a look at the Nitrogen Reduction pdf which is contained in the $6.9-$7.4(with external membrane) million dollar 1MGD generic proposal I sent you and Lyneete in very early November 2008? As you will note those figures include a 30% contingency.

(Maybe we should double the price to make it appear on a par with what the county’s consulting engineer came up with?...Naw, that wouldn’t be honest or fair as USBF™ produces tertiary water and their design produces secondary water that must be “upgradeable to tertiary” at some later “more expensive” point in time.)

Perhaps you can check with someone who is qualified at Cal Poly to verify the quality of the USBF™ process before you make any further comment regarding the ability to scale up or down a proven biological treatment design. Show them the Custom Designs Municipal with the pre-engineered layouts for the 750, 500, 250, 125 thousand gallons per day USBF™ systems, you may be pleasantly surprised by their reaction as students and most professors love to learn.

Don’t be so stingy with the information I have presented even if you don’t, can’t or won’t read it, someone will find it valuable even if you can’t, won’t or don’t.
As you have had this information for several months I do not understand your frustration.

Watershed Mark said...

When USBF(tm) is selected as a solution big energy and big money are conserved.

Can anyone explain why that is not advantageous?

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
If you can get the designs to the engineering department at Cal Poly you will find just how simple and elegant the USBF(tm) designs really are.
What do you have to lose?

I’m trying to save the Citizens of Los Osos money and energy.
I love LO!

Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener) said...

Presumably there is one town (where is it, by the way?) that has chosen your product.

One town in how many years?

Is there a long run track record of the nitrates in the effluent from that town?

Please elaborate on the question of whether there are more places and more data!

Otherwise we'll think that it is just one town and just recently.

alabamasue said...

'Toons,
It appears that Patrick Sparks is no longer working for Mad Man Murphy, as Tom's latest lawsuit-against-everybody was filed 'in pro se' (i.e., no lawyer involved). It just gets more hilarious by the day...

alabamasue said...

Shark,
The City of Lake Alfred is in central Florida and has a population of approximately 4000. Not our population and certainly not our soil, but some people like comparing apples to oranges. especially when they have nothing better.

Watershed Mark said...

Sue, Steve:
Between you two you are making my point that there is allot of misinformation even when the facts are in plain sight.

Steve, Do yourself a favor, get that info over to someone you can trust at school and get them to wiegh in on USBF(tm).
I think you are going to be plesantly surprised.

Lyneete,
Why don't you forward Steve the results you were sent from Justin.
Why are you hiding them?

What about Mr Dean_______?
Honestly...

Sewertoons said...

alabamasue! Thanks for the update! It IS HILARIOUS! I suspect Mad Man Murphy ran out of money and Sparks needs the cash - badly - to take on this gig.

Watershed Mark said...

Honestly Lyneete?

Watershed Mark said...

Honestly Lyneete,
What "gig" do you think you are referring to?
Maybe your neighbor who told you about Mr. Dean ______ knows?