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Friday, July 31, 2009










Calhoun’s Cannons for July 31, 2009

Putt-putt, Vroom-vroom

The snippet in the Tribune’s “Business Buzz” caught my eye; A grand opening at the old McCarthy’s used car lot, but instead of cars, there would be a grand selection of Vespa motor scooters. Vespas!

Instantly it was 1962 and I was back in Art Center School in Los Angeles, standing next to my fellow student and friend, a wonderful photographer from England named Roy Brody, looking at his little blue Vespa scooter. It was for sale.

I was thoroughly fed up with trying to schlep drawing board, fishing tackle box filled with paints and brushes onto and off of city buses, or having to bum a ride to and from the school. And I certainly couldn’t afford to own a car. But a Vespa? It was sort of like a bicycle, wasn’t it? At least that’s how I put it to my parents, who were putting up the $250. And since the previous summer I had gone on a bicycle tour through Europe with the American Youth Hostel group, pedaling through insane European traffic without incident, I think my parents thought – what’s the difference? It’s a small motorized . . . bicycle, isn’t it? She pedaled safely through Milan and Paris, didn’t she?

Well, yes, sort of. And so the deal was done and “Charlie” became mine. He was light blue, and was the smallest Vespa model available at the time, running on a 2-stroke engine, with motor oil dumped right into the gas tank like a lawn mower. And when he got balky, I just had to change out the spark-plug to once again hear his steady putt-putt.

I had a wooden box made to fit on the rear luggage rack and into it went all the art stuff with my drawing board bungee-corded on top. Best of all, unlike a regular motorcycle, the Vespa had a step-in well so you could actually sit on it rather than straddle it. Which was extremely important since Art Center School was a professional art school that required a professional dress code. In the case of girls in 1962, that meant dresses and/or tailored skirts, nylons and high heel shoes; all perfectly doable with the lady-like, slide-on-the-seat Vespa. Although, I must admit, the sight must have been an exceedingly strange one since in that day girls just didn’t ride “motorcycles.” At least “proper ladies” didn’t, not even in high heels.

Beyond the convenience of getting to and from class, Charlie brought enormous freedom to my previously bus-restricted life. The entire city was mine to explore, from the wilderness of Mulholland Drive, to Malibu and Zuma Beach, to the warehouse warrens of downtown L.A., to the museums and libraries, including the extraordinary main downtown library. Sundays turned into day-long explorations of all the odd byways of L.A., a perfect celebration of being young, being bold, being mobile, being on two wheels in a huge new city. It didn’t get any better than that.

When I got married and headed off to Texas, Charlie went into storage and eventually was donated to a charity. And life moved on until 40-some years later, there I stood in front of all these gleaming Vespas. But this time, like most of America, the Vespas had been super-sized into very large, gleaming high-tech, bells & whistles “motorcycles.” They were much larger, smoother, sleeker, quieter, heavier, easier (no hopping on a kick starter, just push a button), and 100 times more expensive. But to a young student, they surely still held the lure of the open road; freedom in a new town waiting to be explored.

In the showroom, I spoke to a man about having once owned a Vespa, and he asked, “Are you going to get one again?”

“No,” I replied, smiling. But it was tempting, that sudden vision of a young me hidden inside that old lady from Los Osos once again tooling around on a sleek new incarnation of Charlie. But then reality returned.

There is a time for everything under heaven and I’m wise enough now to know it’s never smart to tempt fate twice. I had my time, my place, my youth, my adventures on my “Charlie.” And I did it all with no dangerous incidents, no broken bones, thereby proving that God does indeed look out for drunks, fools and little children, especially those driving around Los Angeles on a little Vespa. Putt-putt, Vroom-vroom.

147 comments:

Donna said...

LOVED this! made me cry. send to nathan.

Ron said...

Ann wrote:

"The entire city was mine to explore, from the wilderness of Mulholland Drive, to Malibu and Zuma Beach, to the warehouse warrens of downtown L.A., to the museums and libraries, including the extraordinary main downtown library. Sundays turned into day-long explorations of all the odd byways of L.A"

A few years back, I vowed to NEVER drive through Los Angeles again, so, now, when I visit the Fam down there, I take the train (great train trip, by the way), and when I come back, there's this hour-and-a-half layover at Union Station.

When I first saw that layover on the schedule, my first thought was, "Damn," however, now that I've done that trip several times, that layover has turned into my favorite part of the trip.

Olvera Street's right across from the beautiful Union Station, and China Town (yep, Ann, THAT China Town) is just a couple blocks up from Olvera Street. Everything's within easy walking distance. It's SO fun!

And, I'm positive, that if that city could just do something about its traffic/car problem, it would be, HANDS DOWN, the best city on the planet.

The beaches, the mountains, the sports, the museums, the people ("very happy, 'cause the sun is shinin' all the time, I love L.A."), Hollywood, Malibu -- the place is amazing, and what ruins it, are the cars, because that leads to all of that miserable, miserable congestion (how do they put up with it?), and the smog.

Ann wrote:

"...In the case of girls in 1962, that meant dresses and/or tailored skirts, nylons and high heel shoes...

1962 sounds like a VERY good year.

Sewertoons said...

Thanks for a great article Ann, and I didn't know that you were an art student! Cool! And lucky you - Art Center! Wow, I'm impressed (and jealous)!

This marks the first time ever I can agree with Ron! I too love LA (lived there 55 years) -- I love the hugeness of it and all the diversity and the fun and bizarro stuff - all except for the traffic and smog!

Churadogs said...

Toonces sez:"And lucky you - Art Center! Wow, I'm impressed (and jealous)!"

Don't be jealous,AC was one of the hardest schools EVER. Plus, in 1962, it was the "real" Art Center, this amazing, funky place in a former girl's school over on West 3rd st, way before it became Art Center COLLEGE of Design and took on airs and moved to Pasadena. But it was a pretty amazing place filled with amazing people. If memory serves, one of my classmates was the daughter of the buy who invented the Mustang. And almost all the cars most of you all drove were designed by guys coming out of the AC automotive dept. Ditto for a lot of the ads and illustrations and package design and photo journalists you grew up with. One tough place, but amazing.

And I agree, Ron. Get better transportation,(bring back the Red Car Line!!) less smog, better housing options, and L.A. remains one amazing place.

Ron said...

Ann wrote:

"one of my classmates was the daughter of the (g)uy who invented the Mustang."

and;

"Get better transportation... and L.A. remains one amazing place."

So, let me see if I have this straight -- your classmate's dad helped ruin Los Angeles? ; -)

Imagine an L.A. with SLO county type traffic -- and by that, I mean almost zero chance of bumper-to-bumper traffic.

L.A. has WAY more road infrastructure than SLO County, so there could still be a lot of cars rolling around, just without the constant threat of bumper-to-bumper traffic AND much less smog, if they could just do something about the amount of cars.

One thing that jumps to mind is, at least what I think is, the MASSIVE under-use of telecommunitng.

Between e-mail, and web cams, and teleconferencing, and on and on... why are they even commuting, every day, to their offices to begin with?

Imagine the traffic -- and therefore, smog -- savings they could achieve by developing some sort of staggered telecommuting thing, that had the bulk of office workers working from home 2-3 days a week.

Then, they could consolidate the offices, and free up a bunch of downtown housing. How cool would it be to have an apartment 40 floors up in one of those skyscrapers in an uncongested (traffic-wise), clean(er) air L.A.?

Hey, those are some damn good ideas. I wonder if there are any government administrative jobs open in the area? I should apply.

Sewertoons said...

Ann,
Maybe Art Center was one of the hardest schools, but it also had the reputation of landing you a great job once you were out because you had learned a ton (still has that reputation) - other schools - not so much. You were lucky to go there! Hey - you went during the "Madmen" era - how cool was that!

Churadogs said...

Toonces sez:"Hey - you went during the "Madmen" era - how cool was that!"

If you listen to actors who've been to, I think, Method School, they talk about "sense memory" i.e. tapping into a total clear memory of a past incident down to how it felt physically, what scents were in the air, how the breeze felt on your skin, what emotions come up, how the whole thing actually felt at the time, not just remembered from a distance. I had a total sense memory when I once ordered a stick of Tangee lipstick from the Vermont Country Store and sniffed it and suddenly I was 13 again-- totally there. It wasn't pleasant. There's a lot we forget in our memories about being 13. Same thing happened watching Mad Men. It was creepy and often hard to watch. The unquestioned and accepted misogony, the unthinking "cultural/class/racial" assumptions and bigotries, those awful girdles and garter belts and too tight bras, that whole "business culture;" it all kept coming back in a rush. It was not pleasant. There's a lot we forget to remember about The Good Old Days.

Ron sez:"Then, they could consolidate the offices, and free up a bunch of downtown housing. How cool would it be to have an apartment 40 floors up in one of those skyscrapers in an uncongested (traffic-wise), clean(er) air L.A.?"

Minor problem. Price. Those downtown lofts are beyond the pocketbooks of anybody except CEOs working in those downtown office buildings. That's the big problem in L.A. Affordable housing anywhere near work.

And sez:"So, let me see if I have this straight -- your classmate's dad helped ruin Los Angeles? ; -)"

Yep. Art Center's Automotive Design section was the heart of the beast, training the guys who came up with all the cool cars that you can now see tootling up and down the street at the Morro Bay Car Show filled with middle aged rich guys, since it takes pots of money just to buy the parts to keep those classic cars running.

Also, Art Center was, in many ways, the cultural belly of the beast since it trained up so many Mad Avenue guys (sorry, except for fashion illustration, it was Guy World) who went on to create and shape American Culture via Mad Ave. (and "unnoticed" things like packaging and logos and typography design, & etc, all the stuff that most people don't notice but stuff that makes the environment particulary Of Its Time).

I was there in '61 -
'65 at the moment of a real cultural/aesthetic/reality shift in the country and I could see the start of a lot of the smart, innovative cheekiness in the kids around me -- that was the era of the VW ads and all those other wonderful innovative campaigns just getting started. (There was also an interesting contrast between the teachers -- successful working professionals in their own right, the old lions of the Ad World doing and seeing things the Old Way, and these young lions rattling their cages ) The TV show, Mad Men, is also set right at that cusp as well, with the characters also right on that transformational wave.

Toonces is right on one point: I was very, very, very lucky, in so many ways, to have been there, done that. No great job came out of it (it didn't for most students; in the art biz, both commercial and fine arts, (as in most everything else) 90% is underpaid slog-work with only 10% well paid "rock star" work.) but it was a priceless experience that was of enormous benefit for the rest of my life.

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

Art?

Too bad you only wanted big, bad, ugly gravity sewer!

Los Osos could have had "art" for a project. Patricia Johanson was room mates with Georgia O'Keefe, and Patricia wanted to work on Los Osos.

Oh, to think of what we could have had here!!!

Ron said...

Ann wrote:

"Yep. Art Center's Automotive Design section was the heart of the beast..."

Interesting.

I love this thread. (See the things that emerge when all (read: two or three) of the creepy, agenda-driven, anonalosers go away?)

"No great job came out of it (it didn't for most students; in the art biz, both commercial and fine arts, (as in most everything else) 90% is underpaid slog-work with only 10% well paid "rock star" work.)"

That's exactly why I stopped pursuing jobs in journalism. And that "10% well paid "rock star" work" in the journalism field, only happens in big, congested, smoggy cities like L.A.

No thanks.

Mike said...

...talent also play a big part in art and journalism...

After reading all your glorious memories of life in LA, why are you in Los Osos or Santa Margarita...??? You had Malibu, Long Beach and Huntington Beach... Disneyland and the J. Paul Getty Museum...

Sewertoons said...

"Patricia wanted to work on Los Osos."

I remember Ripley, Pio Lombard and one other firm (not Patricia Johanson) in the running to build the plant/collection system. What stopped Lisa, Julie, Chuck, Steve and John from hiring her? Or did she just flee sensing flakiness and a deep hostility toward regulatory authority (and half of the town)?

Wait a minute! She was corrupt! She worked with Corollo!!

"As a member of the Carollo Engineers design team, Johanson helped create a new water treatment facility. The project includes natural systems to treat sewage, allowing millions of gallons of water to be reused"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Johanson#Petaluma_Wetlands_Park_and_Ellis_Creek_Water_Recycling_Facility.2C_Petaluma.2C_California_.282001-09.29

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

She worked on a "230-acre wetlands park and wildlife sanctuary" - hey - let's move it back to Tonini!!!

Wait a minute - the Planning Commission DIDN'T want prime ag land used!! Got a spare 230 acres over the basin someplace?

3:49 PM, August 02, 2009

Aaron said...

Boy, you sure are nuts.

I like how you wigged out at the closed session meeting.

"But... but... The Planning Commission has their problems too with their conflict of interest, I disagree!"

You disagreed with me by providing a non sequitur statement, congratulations. I was talking about Maria Kelly and Marshall Ochylski's conflict of interest because they've received lots of money from Taxpayers Watch supporters including you.

Not only did you screw up there, but you also advised the CSD to stop putting money towards the lawsuit involving the now-defunct Measure B. Well, guess what? Taxpayers Watch forced the district's hand to deal with this litigation. You're basically asking the board to settle, take money out of the district's coffers and pump it back into Taxpayers Watch.

Seriously, how high are you? How much glue did you sniff before the meeting?

Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mike said...

...it's time for Aaron to go back into rehab and treatment of his hallucinations...

In case the rest of you couldn't understand Aaron's intoxicated drivel...


1. In December 2005 TW challenged Measure B in court.
2. April 2006, TW wins and the court orders Measure B invalid and void.
3. June 2006 LOCSD files an appeal of the Court decision invalidating Measure B.
4. August 31, 2006 LOCSD files chapter 9 Bankruptcy. To avoid paying Court Ordered costs for losing the Measure B case, LOCSD included the Measure B case in the bankruptcy.
5. Following the resignation of Burke Williams and Sorensen as District Counsel in June of 2008, LOCSD files a notice of intention to substitute a new lawyer to handle the Measure B appeal.

What is going on now:

After leaving the Measure B appeal to languish in the Appellate Court for 3 years, the Appeals Court has ordered LOCSD to retain counsel for the appeal or face having their appeal of Measure B thrown out.

In disapointing action the following Report by District Counsel, Jon Seitz, reflects that requests to stop wasting District funds were ignored by the Board Members. The Board instead voted to retain former Burke Williams and Sorensen staff lawyer, Steven Onstat to contuine the District's appeal of Measure B.

The Board of Directors on a 5-0 vote authorized Steve Onstot of Walsworth Franklin Bevins & McCall to be substituted in as attorney of record in the appellate case with a budget of $1,000.

Let's hope the CSD is not going to throw more than the $1,000 budget at the continueing Measure B saga. How many hours will $1,000 cover...????

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE: You sound like "r".

Sewertoons said...

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/751681.html

Aaron said...

Mike, exactly. TW started the lawsuit in December 2005. The LOCSD filed an appeal to the lawsuit.

Whether or not you like Measure B (personally, I don't because of how it was constructed) the LOCSD would also have to compensate for miscellaneous legal costs such as paying for Taxpayers Watch's legal representation among other court ordered costs.

That's money going out of the CSD's pocket during a time of a serious budget crunch.

It doesn't make a lot of sense because the CSD is currently in bankruptcy. Settling now would only mean that the deficit -- during a period of the board being insolvent -- is going to increase.

I didn't come up with this analysis intoxicated, Mr. LeGros. I think it's a little sad (just a little) that this "Mike" character shows your true colors. I really wish you were more honest of a person.

You can say all you want about me, "Mike," but your credibility is shot to Hell.

Mike said...

Keep up the childish guessing game Aaron, I am not Richard, Gordon or Stan... I don't "sniff glue" as you said of 'Toons, although your less than credible postings have a disconnect that makes me wonder just what recreational drugs you use...

Typical of the way the "Move the sewer" and the "No sewer" obstructionist continue to wage their war to keep Los Osos in some mystical rural setting and not becoming another LA or Orange County, Aaron doesn't look at the damage done by the actions of the CSD5... The TaxPayers Watch were the only organized community group to ask that the CSD5 be held accountable for their mismanagement and fiscal irresponsibility...

This community will be paying for the folly of the CSD5 for many years... Measure B, one of the legacy of the CSD5, was so poorly written, and has already been invalidated by the courts... Unfortunatly we have to watch this CSD dump $1,000 to another lawyer to write the closure of the appeal... Guess Jon wasn't capable... But in the end, the CSD can say they had to go this final formal step to finally bury the Measure and can get back to resolving the 3 year old bankruptcy...

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette,

Thanks for the story about sludge.
It is so "you" and that sludge cake mmm mmm good for the environment too.
The engineers love systems that require continuing "capital improvements", just like you.


MIKE is more a shredded than a split personality.
Hurling personal attacks while hiding in a closet isn't normal.
At least Steve is behaving like he has some skin in the game while MIKE et al is just another blind mouse/clown.

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette,

I thought you couldappreciate this story as I did:

The 200,000 gpd facility was one of the first to demonstrate the concept of wastewater mining by intercepting wastewater from a utility sewer collection system upstream, providing treatment and reclaimed water for use in irrigating an 18-hole golf course. The public utility could not serve the development without capital-intensive expansion, and the development was limited in the amount of water it could withdraw because of tight supplies. The reclamation plan served the utility and public interest in reusing a scare resource and preventing the need for an expensive public utility expansion.

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette,

Perhaps you can submit the Paavo’s preferred LOWWP as something the nation should follow as an example.

Aaron said...

Richard,

I know it's you.

It's just sad that a formerly elected official has resorted to posting anonymously, putting people down.

Mike said...

Hey Aaron... "if" you are responding to MY post, then YOU are only guessing and in your immature fashion, you are simply wrong...!!!! So, stay on the porch until you grow up little boy...

I have never run for or been elected to any government office... Like I have said, I am simply one of the community who is tired of all the obstructionists delays... If you really want to do something for the community, go get some proof that PZLDF ever paid their 75% portion of their lawsuit... Try requesting a copy of the "Agreement" from the CSD... then request a copy of the accounting... or just remain the pompus ass you seem to relish being and let your anonymus friend GRO go do it...

You and your kind only want to create the most expensive and lengthy delay possible... Los Osos will have a sewer, I may never have to pay for it and I suspect you will run away back to SoCal before you start getting monthly sewer bills from the County and monthly bankruptcy repayment bills from the CSD...

...best advice, just get back on the porch where you can do your dope without having to overtax what's left of your brain... guessing by you is just a joke and since I don't trust you at all, I'm not about to play your silly games...

Have a Q&F day you 2, try not to burn your house down...

Aaron said...

Richard,

Without actual proof that you're not him, it's a little silly to get so bent out of shape. If you're really not him, I would imagine you'd cut through the "I am one of the community" crap and tell us who you really are.

I have good reason to believe you are Richard because your talking points are very exclusive to you.

It's also fascinating that you're obsessed with my age, calling me a "little boy," because that's what LeGros said about me -- and he suggested that I should grow a beard. He said to me, "I'll refer to you as a 'little boy' until you grow a beard -- and don't take it the wrong way, just some friendly advice."

I tried the whole beard thing actually, but it didn't work out so well.

I don't see anyone here playing any games. The game I play the most is the game called life, which is a game you lost a long time ago given that you've resorted to posting vile things anonymously on a blog. Where's your industrial project management experience now? Where's your Poly engineering degree now?

What's next? Are you going to tell us that you're a life-long member of Scientology? Spare me.

Mike said...

hahahahaha... I do have to give Richard a bit more respect... didn't know he pegged Aaron little boy so well... Richard is a registered Architect... I'm an ordinary Industrial Engineer/Project Manager with a BS from Poly and an MS from San Jose State...

Did you graduate from a high school...??? certainly no higher education, although you seem to get "high" quite often... now go back to your mommy's porch and have some warm milk....

Aaron said...

Let's see.

You're an "ordinary" Industrial Engineer/Project Manager with a BS from Poly and an MS from San Jose State and yet, all you have to offer is a variety of insults that claim I'm high, young, stupid and have no higher education. Gosh, that really shows the depth of your knowledge and that totally convinces me that you're not full of it.

How's that resume coming along? You're more than welcome to send it to me at any time and prove that you're not Richard LeGros. Let's see you try.

Mike said...

You are waaaayyy too easy... must be time for your nap, you sure aren't making points here...

...but do "try" to check out that PZLDF/CSD "Agreement"...and accounting of what was paid by the CSD... the stench from the PZLDF/Lisa and Chuck led CSD speaks volumns about the delays created by the Sewer Obstructionists... and wasn't Ann Calhoun one of the signers of that lawsuit...??? Before looking out at the big bad world, you might want to look a whole lot closer at just who the Obstructionists really are...

...meantime, I have too much to do besides playiing your silly game... go back on the porch and look in the mirror, and puff another joint, you're quite a bore now....

M said...

Mike, the fact that you haven't responded to who I think you are leads me to believe I was correct.
Sincerely, M

Aaron said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aaron said...

Mike, you're making the "birthers" look good.

Mike said...

...let's get to the point... Those seen as sewer obstructionists are also seen as emotional and violent... look at Al Barrow...for that matter, look at Lisa, Julie, Kieth, Chuck... We all know Al is a mental case waiting to explode and physically hurt someone...

I am quite capable of defending my self in a direct confrontation, but I'm not always home... and I do wonder if these individuals are so bent on carrying on their righteous crusade that they would burn my home just because they don't like my viewpoint... I am not alone in this feeling...

There have been threats, mainly from the obstructionist side, there have even been some physical attacks... We all know that the County DA is not coming to Los Osos unless there is a murder... I don't intend to be part of the opportunity to give Gerry Shea any photo op and news in his quest to get re-elected...

I certainly don't trust you... I watched you "out" Steve... and you think that was funny... If I had children in the house I would be a bit nervious every time someone came up to the house... You seem to have all migrated north from LA... well I guess that was how you lived and think that to be "normal"... you don't realize that LO was a small community where we knew everyone, we didn't worry that some extreme activist would try to harm our family or property....

But, unfortunately we all are much more cautious now... We are tired of the continual parade of clowns, fat ladies and trolls... mostly because we don't know just how far those freaks will go in trying to shove their adgenda down our throats... How much cheerleading does so unstable extremist need...??? How is an unemployed meat salesman trying to pretend he is the sewer savior of LO really helping solve the sewer...how would like that creep to know who you are and where you live and work....??? How would you like Joey the village clown accost you and your family in the 10th Street Grill or Carlock's...??? I've been there and seen it happen...

When you try to play your guessing game in trying to "out" someone you don't agree with, you are furthering the division in this community.... I'm purposely being outspoken and anonymous, not because I personally fear anyone, but because I don't trust any of you...!!!

My friends know who I am... I really don't care who any of you obstructionist and also anonymous posters really are... but when you don't like what I say, be aware I probably don't like what you say either... You have refused to look in the mirror and see what you are and you apparently don't like me reminding you that there is a whole community who feels the same as I do...

If you take offense to my words... tough... but as you keep guessing my identity, be very aware you are far worse than any anonymus blogger here... I am none of those special individuals you have been guessing...

Aaron said...

I've read your novel. Very interesting. I see you like throwing darts at the moon. Hope you make the bulls-eye someday.

You talk about Al Barrow being a mental case waiting to explode, and that's true, he is one, but you're easily forgetting that many of your comments are rather violent, explosive and judging by the intensity of your language, you are more than willing to physically hurt someone.

Personally, I'm not one for burning homes down or condoning any physical retaliation against opposing viewpoints. Let's bring up Al Barrow again. Even Al was physically intimidated by members of Save the Dream, people you wouldn't ordinarily suspect of inflicting bodily harm.

Let's talk about bodily harm for a second. If we took what you said on Calhoun's Cannon and you were confronting the people you've harshly criticized, I wouldn't be surprised if you got clocked, and while violence is not the answer to disputes, if you're going to make death threats and wage personal attacks, you're going to have to keep your guard up.

If you simply said, "You know what? I'm not going to even go there [by producing insults]," you're not going to have a problem and you're not going to be in a situation that you're always fearful for your safety.

For the record, I did not "out" Steve. On the contrary, I respect Shark Inlet because we can disagree and have a very productive conversation. Not once have I had a problem with him -- and you know why? He's civil, he doesn't insult and he's straight to the point. He doesn't feel the need to stray away from the conversation and dedicate hours and hours to insulting people, which clearly you have done.

I have questions regarding your identity because you're that stereotype that Taxpayers Watch and Save the Dream have been fighting against: the angry, demeaning community member that's in favor of the status quo and relies on character attacks to get the point across. You, sir, are one of many reasons why TW is labeled as a bunch of angry, demeaning community members.

Your existence on this blog has done more damage to TW's message and it's very counterproductive to the people you support.

You constantly call me a "little boy" among other things, but you act very childish. You'll throw a bunch of insults and then write a novella about how you don't want your house burned down the extremists -- and what have I done? I've asked you to provide a resume that shows your accomplishments because you most certainly trusted a bunch of people on the blog to post that information... why not follow through?

Going back to Shark Inlet, Shark has always challenged people to provide the proof. I asked for proof after you made a string of claims about your experience and occupations. Your answer? "F--- you!" Gee, that's great. Thanks for the polite response. I forgot that requesting information from people isn't as easy as making a public records request.

I'm not asking for your trust, but what I can say is that I've never, ever threatened anyone with physical violence. I don't engage in malicious behavior. I listen to people, but you sure made it difficult for me to listen to you.

At any given time, I can simply walk away from these blogs and say, "Screw this guy!" but have you noticed that I haven't left?

Show some respect.

Mike said...

...you don't show any respect, so don't expect any from this corner... I've provided enough facts over the past couple of years on this and the Tribune blog, I don't intend to comply with your wishes... you have come across as the schoolyard bully ready to "clock" anyone who disagrees with you... which is exactly the attitude displayed by your fellow extremists... you are a little boy... time you woke up to the community who doesn't trust you...!!!

I do disagree with your pompus attitude and smart ass answers... you really belong back in an LA gang...

Have fun playing your games, there will be a sewer that you don't have any say about...

Aaron said...

Right, a schoolyard bully. You, a grown man presumably twice my age calling me a bully? You are so funny! I didn't realize I was that intimidating -- that you'd honestly think I'd physically hurt you because I disagree with you.

I have a challenge for you -- and no, this isn't a game.

Write a viewpoint to The Tribune or the Bay News that says you speak for the community and get as many people as you can to co-sign your viewpoint.

When Bill Garfinkel tried that, he got 82 people signing onto it. If you take 82 people out of a total of 8,167 people inside and outside the PZ, that's 0.01% of the community. Most of the 8,167 wanted a sewer out of town or the edge of town, not Tri-W so you are, in actuality, only representing that small sampling.

You're probably not going to do that either.

You mentioned the Tribune message boards, the very same boards that hosted a plethora of death threats and inane comments from different people.

Let's see.

ReApprazor wanted to beat Jews with baseball bats (not violent), MoveBy2010 wanted to take my family and beat them to a bloody pulp in an alleyway in Venice (classy), 4CrapKiller encouraged rape (not sexist whatsoever) and Wonky1 wrote songs that included anti-Semitic, anti-women lyrics. Those people provided a lot of facts. You really showed those obstructionists! Now put on your Nazi uniform and practice your Hitler salute. Your posts have made the Fuhrer proud.

Hope I'm not too pompous.

Mike said...

WOW, you really need help with your persecution complex... I don't seem to recall the Trib postings the way you do... You really are a screwed up little boy...

Is that your reason for fighting any authority...??? Hitler scared you that much in your parents wet dreams...??? Or have you puffed too much pot or meth....???? You really should seek help because you aren't in this world...

Aaron said...

You probably wouldn't recall because The Tribune was busy deleting all the nasty comments. At one point, they got tired of deleting all the comments and removed the Los Osos sewer threads entirely.

The boards used to be at http://forums.sanluisobispo.com but they were using the Mercury News content management system. In early 2008, they remodeled the site, deleted the old boards. There's no longer an archive.

You act like you never read any of the comments I was referring to. Selective reading, maybe?

Cut the microphone.

Watershed Mark said...

Fear and Loathing in LO MIKE? Must be getting stuffy in that closet of yours.
Why do you "feel" so challenged by the simple questions?

Have you see Warren Jensen's treatment of Lisa's complaint?

Watershed Mark said...

What are you going to do when you are outed MIKE?
You must realize it is only a matter of time or maybe not, you aren't playing with a full deck now are you?

GetRealOsos said...

Aaron,

I support you and what you've said regarding Mike.

He's never answered me. He calls me a liar and can't say one lie I've told.

Every single (real) expert that has come to Los Osos and/or weighed in on Los Osos has said we're getting scammed by the RWQCB. It's all a scam. Mike is part of the scam.

Mike certainly endorses these governmental agencies that break the law and abuse their power. He refuses to address the fact that the RWQCB has seen the documented, visual evidence of Morro Bay polluting, yet only pick on Los Osos for "suspected" pollution. (Look at every story in the Trib that says "suspected" over the years -- they've also always said that the sewer would "hopefully" correct nitrate problems.)

And, you're right, the angry "dreamers" are the violent ones! I've seen many. The people who wanted the sewer moved from the center of town stopped them from cashing in sooner. They just can't wait for the money. The real estate gravy train of people who will get rich. Didn't the recalled board tell people they'd be rich, that their houses would be worth millions? I believe so. I saw some heavy duty violent posts on the Trib, and those posts DID get pulled.

Mike is a rat that sounds sooooo much like Richard....just sounds like what Richard would say...

GetRealOsos said...

Mark,

At least Aaron has the guts to use his (real) name, unlike Mike, who appears to talk tough but is a big fat chicken hiding behind his name "Mike" because he doesn't want the Taylors to come burn his house down!!!

Mike said...

OK... GetRealOsos...

Who are YOU...!!!!

Why haven't YOU posted YOUR name for all to see and know YOU and YOUR address...?????????

Mike said...

Come on GRO... I never tried guessing who you are... Where are your "guts"...???

I told you very plainly why I won't provide you any clues in your game... I wouldn't trust you not to try to create problems...

Aaron said...

It's ironic for you to be proud of being "anonymous and outspoken" and yet you're demanding to know GRO's identity. Well aren't you special?

You care enough about GRO's identity to post at 2:15 AM. Good grief.

Mike said...

Aaron...you keep on proving what an idiot you are...

...ever think I may have been working late on a complex assignment that needed to back to the client this morning... and just happen to check in to the blog... actually, it's none of your business.... the anonymus GRO is the one who "demanded" I comply... but you are too stupid to understand... go back to puffing your weed...

Aaron said...

I'll be asking your friends about who you are and when I get some information, I'm going to write a letter to you that explains civility to you in words that even you would understand.

I probably won't be able to pull an Obama and have a beer with you, but I can definitely teach you a lesson in humility.

Mike said...

...hahaha... you will teach you...

You were much better trying to muddle your way through all your misconceptions of what the pre-recall men and women designed and had permitted for the community... You aren't very adroit at handling tax payers who have been shafted by the post-recall gang...

...hahahaha... you really are a child.... time for your nap...

Watershed Mark said...

Hey MIKE, I'll be happy to buy you and sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette a berr when I get up there to cull those records regarding the County's $7MM "study process"...

Wadda say? Too tough for ya??

Watershed Mark said...

Make that a "beer", grrrrrr. Then we can chat up the excrement you and she have been providing.

Aaron said...

Mike,

You're making Cinthea Coleman look good, and believe me, she's slept with horses.

Shark Inlet said...

Aaron,

On a technical note you were wrong when you wrote: When Bill Garfinkel tried that, he got 82 people signing onto it. If you take 82 people out of a total of 8,167 people inside and outside the PZ, that's 0.01% of the community. because 82 of 8167 is 1%.

Please remember, however that each of those individuals who was willing to sign probably represents quite a few others who weren't willing or who were not asked. Sort of like each letter of phone call to a congresscritter probably represents x others, we shouldn't use the small raw numbers to downplay Garfinkle's point of view.

Watershed Mark said...

Garfinkle shouldn't use his small actual number to overplal his point of view.

Watershed Mark said...

We shouldn't use his small actual number to "overplay" his point of view...

Aaron said...

Shark,

Here's the problem. Only those 82 people have come out of the woodwork to support Garfinkel and his views. There's always going to be that x factor of people who quietly support him and his ideas; none of us can ever say, "We are the community," or "We represent the community" because that x factor is unverified.

The only verified data is the 82 people that co-signed his viewpoint.

I think -- not saying that I know -- that the community wants a centralized, affordable wastewater treatment plant that will reduce the amount of nitrates being discharged into the groundwater while conserving enough water to slow down the effects of saltwater intrusion.

I also think that the community is tired of the fighting going on. You have this Mike person who is saying, "I have the right to be vulgar because your people have been vulgar to my people" -- an eye for an eye. Does he really represent the community? I sure hope not.

Sewertoons said...

Aaron, are you sure Cinthea wants what you said about her spread out over the internet? Do you dislike her or did she give permission for you to say that? How can you accuse Mike of anything when you talk trash like that - (unless this was her idea of allowable personal information)?

Mike said...

Wonder if Cinthea has heard back from Obama...??? and has she paid her share of the PZLDF lawsuit...???

I do believe Aaron little boy has first hand experience when he states; "...and believe me, she's slept with horses." Sounds like she turned him down...or he's jealous....

Aaron said...

It's unfortunate that sarcasm is hard to detect on the Internet.

It's interesting given that I said one thing -- and only one thing that exaggerated someone's personal circumstances, which was clearly satirical in the art of absurdity, but Lynette, who hasn't been the nicest person in the world, says, "Woah there, that is wrong. Shame on you!"

Just a little ironic.

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE is fearful little mouse which is why he/she is so foul mouthed. That fear is irrational and unfounded. What is he/she hiding?
Too bad he/she isn't man or woman enough to step up and put his person where his persona is.

Steve,
I want to publically say thanks for posting the CCC Letter to Paavo and his crew!

As far as Dan Walters goes, I would have to agree with a “juggler” on his most recent story:

Popular Comment
Dan, I think the fragmentation is evidence of the voters realizing that the California experiment of big government solutions is failing. We thought we could do it all, have it all, be it all. We believed that people would never want to leave, no matter what, because, for so long, people didn't. No new program was too expensive because people will pay more in taxes to live here. After all, this is California, so it's worth it! Growth was perpetual, until it wasn't. Every time there was a boom, we spent like it would never end on new long term commitments, until it did end, and then we raised taxes. We were told, "Yeah, taxes are no fun, but isn't the beach so nice. It's so sunny today." More recently that's changed to "Shut and pay more taxes, or get out." One problem. People are getting out, and very quickly. They've realized that good weather and nice beaches don't make up for being taxed to death. Businesses have realized this too. And here we are.
-- juggler65

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette,

Have you slept or are you now sleeping with MIKE?

Watershed Mark said...

Of course not every U.S. citizen has access to their original birth certificate, but you do, and that's the only one under debate. As valuable as copies can be, textual critics know that nothing outweighs an original, especially when only it contains the information under question.
So again I ask, why don't you simply request, release and give permission to make public your original birth certificate?
Mr. President, you promised the American people that you are "committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government." In fact, on July 23 in your prime time press conference, you said that your administration was more transparent than those of previous presidencies: "I think that we have provided much greater transparency than existed prior to our administration coming in."
So again I ask, why not live out that transparency promise by posting your original birth certificate and end the division and debate?

Why wasn’t vacuum studied?

Mike said...

Since I am not trying to "sell" my stuff to Los Osos or the County, I'll make sure the following comment gets to the appropriate decision makers...

Per Mark Low, 9/4/2009 on the Ann Calhoun Blog:

"Sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette,

Have you slept or are you now sleeping with MIKE?"


...for a supposed salesman to make this kind of remark is what influences "Why wasn’t vacuum studied?" There really is no wonder why he has been booted out of the design process...

I'm not trying to sell the county anything....but Mark was...

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE little mouse,

I have never represented any collection technology.
So as usual your logic is as leaky like the bell and spigot Paavo's $7MM study process yeilded.

Try again, it's fun!

Have you slept ot are you now sleeping with sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette?

What are you going to do when you are outed?

Watershed Mark said...

Have you slept or are you now sleeping with sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette?

Why do you have so much trouble with simple questions?

Mike said...

You really should be addressing Julie Tacker with that sort of question...

YOUR true nature is coming through and is well know through the BOS and Public Works...

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE little mouse,

One must be first included before one is booted...

While you are "getting" my comments to the appropriate decision makers...
Be sure to include my reference to 'Paavo "if there is a technology that is significantly less expensive, then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away" Ogren'.

Watershed Mark said...

You are talking to me...Looks like I am making some progress with you MIKE little mouse.

One of my projects include but is not limited to illuminating and making widely and well known the SLOCO BOS and Public Works actions and inactions regarding their $7MM study process and result.

I appreciate your help and participation.
I really do love LO! I Love LO!

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE lttle mouse,

It was you who was chatting sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette for a reunion drink, not Julie.

You seem to have trouble tracking the facts framing the discussion.

Watershed Mark said...

It was you who was chatting "up" sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette for a reunion drink, not Julie.

Watershed Mark said...

Little mouse

Watershed Mark said...

Where is Warren's treatment of Lisa's complaint.

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE little mouse, would you please add my request with your report to the decision makers.

Where is Warren's treatment of Lisa's complaint?

Watershed Mark said...

Appreciation is the purest, strongest form of love. It is the outward-bound kind of love that asks for nothing and gives everything. Research now shows that it is physiologically impossible to be in a state of appreciation and fear at the same time. Thus, appreciation is the antidote to fear. Although fear was the first feeling that developed during evolution, love is believed to be the second. It, too, has tremendous survival value; our early ancestors, who fought to survive during the day, huddled together for comfort at night. Fear is strong, but love is stronger, because it’s a product of the neocortex, not the lower brain.

I appreciate all you do helping me illuminate the situation you have brewing in LO MIKE little mouse.
You should try it sometime as it may help you overcome your fears.

Mike said...

I bow to Mark, who is indeed the nastier and a bigger asshole than I could ever be...

If it would help reduce the amount of bullshit and lies on this blog, I'll fade away... My purpose of holding a mirror to the sewer obstructionists to see what they look like as they close their minds to the rest of the community...

It would be nice to see Ann admit she has never paid her portion of the PZLDF lawsuit, but this is her blog and she has to live with her decision to steal CSD funding for her personal actions....

RIP GRO....

Aaron said...

... because holding a mirror -- assuming that these "obstructionists" are as crude as you are -- is the most mature way to discuss things.

Great.

Watershed Mark said...

Glad I could be of service Mike little mouse. Helping you to admit that you are the source of "BS and Lies" on this blog is certainly progress you should be pround of.
The first step in solving a problem is admitting there is one.

Are you beginning to feel the serious weight of this project?

When are you and the other "I want a big leaky over priced sewer pipe" people going to get that discussion going in ernest?
I'd love someplace where you and sorry,I forgot his last name Lynette, "r" and the others and "me, myself and I" can really get your stupidity on the record...

Talk with you soon, little mouse.

Alon Perlman said...

WHY CAST PEARLS BEFORE SWINE?

Putt-putt, Vroom-Vroom. A special kind of freedom

Watershed Mark said...

Vinegar disolves pearls and I drink it daily.

M said...

So long Mike. We barely knew ye.
Sincerely, M

Realistic1 said...

Someone recently wondered on this blog where all the posters had gone...

I can tell you where I've gone -

Ann posted a perfectly wonderful non-sewer related musing. There were some nice posts from Ron, Sewertoon and others...and then wham! GRLO comes along and turns the whole thing into a vitriolic sewer debate...and Aaron, Mike and WSM jump right in - slinging mud left and right.

Ann - I've enjoyed the posts about your dogs, the Vespa piece, and your musings about LA, along with your weekly poems. It's too bad others don't seem to want to relax and enjoy what's good and pleasant. I'll keep reading those pieces and skip the rest.

Watershed Mark said...

More tea?

Aaron said...

I didn't sling any mud in case anyone noticed. I was simply "holding up a mirror."

M said...

Ya gotta admit though, this is pretty funny.
And I quote, "If it would help reduce the amount of bullshit and lies on this blog, I'll fade away..."
Sincerely, M

Aaron said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aaron said...

This whole thing is funny, M. Knowing you, you're probably laughing hysterically.

In terms of dealing with Mike, there were a few choices. The first choice was to simply ignore Mike because he's anonymous on some blog that a few in-the-know Los Osos residents read. His behavior serves as a given punchline without anyone to assist him.

The choice I made was to take what he said, digest it and turn it around. For years, he's been banging the shoe at the podium like Nikita Khrushchev, instilling fear into people who have essentially expressed an opinion that differs from his own, but until now, not a lot of people have said to him, "Take a good, long look at the mirror."

I think it's time for people to be held accountable, but I also think that you can hold people responsible without obscenity.

Watershed Mark said...

It appears MIKE little mouse was handed the "quit it" memo by the County when he took his "report" over to them.

Like sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette he has been told to stop uncovering the "excrement" they are attempting to keep buried.

Given the current claims of “transparency” there must be a "scapegoat” and the goings on in SLOCO make a very compelling target.

Where is Warren’s treatment of Lisa’s complaint?

Rest easy Aaron, the record is clear even when "r1" and MIKE little mouse try to obscure it with their very week attempts at editorializing.

Sewertoons said...

To quote Aaron,

"You're making Cinthea Coleman look good, and believe me, she's slept with horses."
1:07 PM, August 04, 2009

"I think it's time for people to be held accountable, but I also think that you can hold people responsible without obscenity."
8:17 PM, August 05, 2009

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette,

Show us the cut and paste of the obsenity:
ob·scene
Pronunciation:\äb-ˈsēn, əb-\
Function:adjective
Etymology:Middle French, from Latin obscenus, obscaenus
Date:1593
1: disgusting to the senses : repulsive
2 a: abhorrent to morality or virtue ; specifically : designed to incite to lust or depravity b: containing or being language regarded as taboo in polite usage obscene lyrics c: repulsive by reason of crass disregard of moral or ethical principles an obscene misuse of power d: so excessive as to be offensive obscene wealth obscene waste

When you do, you will find that MIKE little mouse has the foul mouth, not Aaron.

The first step in solving a problem is admitting there is one.

Are you beginning to feel the serious weight of this project?

When are you and the other "I want a big leaky over priced sewer pipe" people going to get that discussion going in ernest?

Are you going to be available to get together with MIKE little mouse and me for drinks when I get to SLOCO to review the County's "study bills?"
We could use the oppourtunity to "bury the hatchet"...Naw, just kidding, I'll need all my tools for the work I will be performing while I am there.

Watershed Mark said...

Bring Lou if you like and MIKE little mouse can handle it.
The more the merrier and I would love to get his take on the Cali Budget and how it may affect his retirement plans, given he like the big pipe and thinks the county is doing such a great job.

alabamasue said...

I hear you, 'toons.
Aaron goes back and forth between calling for civility and going totally nuts on people he doesn't agree with. Witness his uncalled-for attack on Maria Kelly a few months back, his recent attacks on Bill Garfinkel, et al. By the way, 137 signed Mr. Garfinkel's petition before it was presented publicly. Don't forget the community survey. Many folks say that a 30+% return is not representative of community thought. Actually, a ten percent return on a survey is considered good; a 20% return is said to be excellent. Thirty percent is pretty much unheard of. The people who (after the fact) claimed they didn't name their preferences, and threw the survey in the garbage, well you reap what you sow

Realistic1 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Cut and Paste Run Around Sue.

BTW, you never did report back about seeing "sorry, I forgot his last name" you said you saw on a LOCSD meeting tape.
Does everyone who loves a big leaky over priced pipe need to avoid truth?

Realistic1 said...

"Rest easy Aaron, the record is clear even when "r1" and MIKE little mouse try to obscure it with their very week attempts at editorializing."

WSM - your endless blathering and spamming of this comment section is one of the primary reasons I stopped participating. It really says something that most days you are the only one posting. I only commented because Ann's piece was about a Vespa and about simpler times in her (and our) youth. Two or three people, who are normally on opposite sides of a discussion, were actually having a pleasant exchange about THE TOPIC OF ANN's NON-SEWER BLOG POSTING until GRLO, you, Mike and Aaron show up.

I was not trying to obscure anything - just merely pointing out how quickly you and others can take something pleasant and turn it into something ugly in the blink of any eye. No wonder this town is so fractured...nothing but "I'm right and you're evil" coming out of everyone's mouth. Doesn't matter which side - everyone plays in their own way.

Aaron - your comment about Cynthia Coleman is downright vulgar and uncalled for. You may disagree with her - I'm certainly no fan, but honestly! Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

Watershed Mark said...

r1, I appreciate your point of view and will defend your right to have it, but I just can't agree with it.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Why don't we let Ann police her land.

BTW, do you know why Warren hasn't "handled" Lisa's complaint or why vacuum was never studied during Paavo's $7MM "process?"

I know you may see these questions as blather which is why we will continue to disagree on what is really and actually important.

I think my old Karate Instructor (who is still sharp as a tack and who still kicks like a mule) had it correct when he wrote:

Still, your press secretary, Robert Gibbs, continues to glibly brush aside the issue by calling it "fictional nonsense." But, in so doing, he devalues the grievance passage of the First Amendment and insults those who are genuinely concerned and inquisitive by categorizing them all as political quacks. He needs to learn that you can't model tolerance for certain minorities while belittling and quarantining those who don't blindly follow your lead.

The statements above can easily be applied to describe behavior on this blog, on the SLOCO BOS and in SLOCO Public Works.
There is still so much that has yet to “play out” in the LOSTDEP.

The current circumstances have changed so dramatically that the result Paavo thought he would be able to achieve when he started this “process” is no longer achievable.
No matter who attempts to obscure it the County et al is beginning to feel the serious weight of this project, as they should.

Alon Perlman said...

Aaron, Why don't you get your own blog? All your followers will flock to it to hear about your miraculous exploits.
Oh and here's a dime Now go call your mother and tell her that there is serious doubt that you will ever become a sewer-side player or a decent human being.

Watershed Mark said...

Alon,
Why don't we let Ann police her land.
You have read "our" Constitution, correct?

Here are a few words to consider when commenting in public:
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
________________________________________
Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Watershed Mark said...

"Rest easy Aaron, the record is clear even when "r1" and MIKE little mouse try to obscure it with their very "weak" attempts at editorializing."

Alon Perlman said...

Why don't "we" lets, Low Water Mark
I'm curious to see how a drive by smearing of a fellow CDO will be tolerated
Fraud Alert
The California Word Quality Control Board
"No one in Los Osos has to buy a Claimulator"
"Protecting the words of California"

Word verification; dip-sifs

Watershed Mark said...

Despite the enormity of the charges and the millions of taxpayer dollars at stake, Jensen has chosen to fiddle away while Los Osos burns to the tune of $7 million wasted on a purposefully flawed project. Tragically, after two speakers at BOS public comment on July 21 asked to his face when the MWH/Ogren report was coming, Jensen just sat there in silence like a beached whale in a summer suit, refusing to even respond to the public’s questions about when he would respond—the very height of arrogance of a closed government working against the people.

Aaron said...

Alon, the blog is here.

I see people have been discussing my posting habits and what I said, and that's great, but I have a couple of things to add.

Once again, I must emphasize that I've made a joke, you know, things that people say that is meant to generate a laugh, but when David Letterman made the joke regarding Sarah Palin's daughter, Bristol, he said, "Some [jokes] are fine, some are not," but in the end, a joke's a joke. It's unfortunate that the Internet doesn't exactly relay the joking tone to others.

I don't regret making the joke, but I won't make any more jokes on here.

Now onto serious business.

I think people are having a difficult time distinguishing between expressing an opinion and administering an attack. With Maria Kelly, I stated very clearly with a conversation I had with Billy Dunne that I can separate the politics from the person, but some people cannot. For example, there are people like Realistic1 who took an opinion about her campaign and said I "attacked" her personally.

I said that her campaign ran on false pretenses because she provided no specific plans except for bringing solvency back to the district and yet a good chunk of her campaign was based on her unyielding support for the County wastewater project -- and that energy, that dedication should have gone toward rebuilding the district with new ideas.

Apparently, that opinion ruffled a few feathers.

With Bill Garfinkel, he approached the podium claiming that he represents the majority of the community when the only statistical data we have relevant to the claim is the amount of people who co-signed his viewpoints, which roughly consists of 0.01% of the town's population. With the number that Realistic1 presented to you, that's not much of an increase.

As far as the community survey goes, you have a legitimate sampling of 34%, which is indeed is unprecedented for return rates, but you have to factor in a couple of things: (1) Questions on the survey were very opinionated toward gravity collection and that issue was acknowledged the majority of the County Board of Supervisors, (2) The "community," by definition, did NOT overwhelming support anything, the sampling did, (3) the survey was extremely technical and homeowners who don't have engineer-quality grasp of the WWTP probably didn't fill out the survey adequately or complete it at all.

Aaron said...

These are simply observations and if you disagree with them, I'm not going to go crazy and for the record, I haven't, but I'm not afraid to say, "I think you're wrong and let me tell you why," and I will engage in a conversation. If you don't like where the conversation is headed, be sure to stick to the topic and I will follow your lead.

As far as my blog posting goes and the etiquette regarding commenting on a non-sewer related post. Before Richard LeGros left Calhoun's Cannon, he posted in non-sewer related articles as a way of presenting an update of information -- because you often have the older posts getting pushed off the page and into the archives and not a lot of readers are going to venture back into the archives to continue an active discussion. Shark Inlet has also engaged in a similar practice.

And finally, I want to talk about Alon Perlman. Perlman has called himself a "centurist" environmentalist who ran for the LOCSD, promising an end to hostility. For several months, Perlman made a series of character attacks that I felt were beside the issues at hand. Starting from the incident when Goldin's mic was cut by the board, Perlman felt that the board was justified in cutting her mic because she did not submit a speakers slip or raise her hand to speak when called by Gibson. We had a disagreement and we agreed to disagree, but he persisted in making personal jabs so I deleted one of his comments.

He would call my personal cell phone, leaving a distraught message on my voicemail. When he didn't receive a response in a timely manner, he called my house phone in a more aggressive tone and finally, he wrote in an e-mail to me on June 21st, "Without my entry post present, please call me [...] and after reading what is below, please consider removing today's post. I can easily esculate [sic] this."

Mr. Perlman, a man who wrote three comments above mine that he has "serious doubt" that I will ever become a sewer-side player or a decent human being, levied a personal threat against me. I told him in a follow-up response that his behavior was unacceptable. So yes, even Alon Perlman has a nasty temper.

Even those who have been the most critical of me on this blog have been hostile, but the problem is that nobody says, "I'm sorry." Nobody says, "Maybe I've been a little rude," but it takes one joke -- that was exceedingly absurd to begin with -- to say, "This guy is trouble." I hate to rain on your parade, but many of you have conducted yourselves in a way that has undoubtedly contributed to divisiveness -- and yes, you know what? I have too, but at least I'm a man enough to say that I've done my part.

Are you? I'm thinking, "No."

Alon Perlman said...

So, Charlie was sky blue, Those had a very different personality from the yellow ones, like this Vespa

Churadogs said...

Mike sez:"If it would help reduce the amount of bullshit and lies on this blog, I'll fade away... My purpose of holding a mirror to the sewer obstructionists to see what they look like as they close their minds to the rest of the community..."

Promise? Or will it be deja vu. Richard LeGros said the same thing once, then . . . reappeared.

I write a column about college and my Vespa and before anyone can blink the comment section is hijacked by pathology. One of the reasons I allow some of you people lots of rope is because if any onlookers want to get an idea of some of the amazing pathology at work here in Sewerville, they only have to take a gander. It's also amazing how compellingly clear some "anonymous" posters have no clue how revealing their "voices" are, and how powerful are their issues with Projection. Classic cases and clueless.

Some of these folks remind me of the lab experiments on cocaine addicted rats who kept pushing that little bar to get their "hit" until they died of exhaustion. Amazing behavior.

Aaron sez:I don't regret making the joke, but I won't make any more jokes on here."

Promise? Cynthea was a victim of your drive-by "humor." She was a total bystander in your quarrel with Mike. Not good.

Now, here's an idea: All of you please go back to the top of this comment section and carefully read all the comments and watch where this thing degenerated into Crazyville and ask yourselves: Are some of you people NUTS? Seriously. The pathology that keeps showing up here is really amazing.

Plus, ya gotta ask yourselves, you who have blogs of your own, why do you come into MY yard to fight with one another?? Why not take your quarrels with one another to each other's blogs where you can yell at each other in peace?

If you keep up this kind of really sick rat/cocaine/hitting the bar type of crazy behavior, Mother Calhoun will have to make some new rules, for HER blog -- which you're not likely to care for. You have been warned, children.

Realistic sez:"Ann - I've enjoyed the posts about your dogs, the Vespa piece, and your musings about LA, along with your weekly poems. It's too bad others don't seem to want to relax and enjoy what's good and pleasant. I'll keep reading those pieces and skip the rest."

Ah, a SANE piece of advice. It would have been fun to hear from readers their own college stories. I'm sure there are many wonderful tales to share.It's not too late, maybe you can add some "Vespa" stories of your own on my latest posting and we can start again without the insane fence-fighting dogs showing up to ruin the party.

Realistic1 said...

"For example, there are people like Realistic1 who took an opinion about her campaign and said I "attacked" her personally."

Aaron -

Wasn't me. I took issue with your vulgar "joke" - didn't say a word about Maria Kelly.

Realistic1 said...

"With the number that Realistic1 presented to you, that's not much of an increase."

Aaron,

WTF are you talking about? What number did I present? I haven't attended a public meeting in four years. I didn't sign Bill Garfinkel's viewpoint, nor have I ever attended a TPW meeting. If you are going to "opine", at least get the players right.

Aaron said...

I meant to say alabamasue, but I was reading your post as I was composing my response.

Aaron said...

But speaking of you, Realistic1, you had an account on SanLuisObispo.com Discussion Boards, the very same place where Wonky1 made a name for himself by rewriting classic song lyrics. In those lyrics included extremely misogynistic content regarding Lisa Schicker and Julie Tacker.

Just as you're not a fan of Cinthea, you're not a fan of Schicker and Tacker earlier, but you never asked him if he kisses his mother with that mouth. In fact, you would occasionally praise him for his "wit," but some would argue they're not innocent bystanders and their public officials so of course it's okay. It's really not because they're human beings.

Why do the people you know get a free pass when it comes to being offensive? That's something I never understood. They get a free pass, but if I make one joke (albeit not a very good one), that totally crosses the line.

People like Mike and Wonky1 have done a lot worse than me. The point is that we don't know who these people are so we are left to wonder who we can trust in the community. Many of these anonymous people have strongly held opinions with the intent to discriminate. Los Osos is a town of 15,000 people. Compared to a city, we're a very small population and it will be even smaller once the sewer is built.

And the motive for all my posting? I sincerely do not like how people are being treated. They're given an unfair hearing with several people acting as the judge, jury and executioner. Nobody takes their grievances to public comment. It has always been backdoor politics. Because people are keeping their true feelings hidden, they get closer and closer to the boiling point -- and when that happens, the results will be highly problematic.

Watershed Mark said...

Alon,

For the record:

The RECLAMATOR was never for sale it was a technology used to provide a service, like the service the county is studying to provide.
No one in Los Osos will be buying a sewer and treatment plant, but they will be charged for it.

In an attemt to get back on topic:

Vespas are for folks who aren't going very far...

Realistic1 said...

Aaron -

Wonky's lyrics were renditions of popular songs, applicable to the situation at the time. OBVIOUS satire.

Your vulgar reference to deviant sexual behavior doesn't even compare.

Aaron said...

My satire, your satire. You say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-to.

Shark Inlet said...

What's a "po-tah-to"?

Aaron said...

@Shark: This video should explain it.

Shark Inlet said...

Aaron,

You write "Po-tah-to" I write "Po-tah-toe" ... let's call the whole thing off...

Sewertoons said...

Aaron said:
"I said one thing -- and only one thing that exaggerated someone's personal circumstances, which was clearly satirical in the art of absurdity…"

"My satire, your satire. You say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-to."

I don't know Cinthea's person circumstances, nor should you assume the rest of us on this blog do. Your version of satire regarding Cinthea is not working. Trying to wiggle out of this Aaron would be better accomplished by an apology rather than an analogy with an ancient song.

Aaron said...

It's best to move on. I made a randomly tasteless, misguided joke, but that's all it ever was: a joke.

Watershed Mark said...

A joke is no lie, sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette.

Sewertoons said...

Randomly tasteless? What does that mean? How about just plain, ordinary tasteless? Randomly looks like a device to take the sting out of tasteless.

Labeling it as a "joke" doesn't give it a "get home free" pass. You might find it useful in future blog postings to assess your audience's knowledge on a topic, or likely tolerance of various sexual behaviors before floating out a "joke" of this sort. You might see that in the real world, this won't work at all in the end (Edge/Wilcox).

Maybe you could simply say, "Sorry." Then our moving on would clear your error from our minds. That was the only word missing from your explanation above. (But please don't lie if you are not sorry.)

M said...

Aaron, I hope your not giving me a hard time. "This whole thing is funny, M. Knowing you, you're probably laughing hysterically." Do you know me?
Who in the heck is Cinthea anyway?
Sincerely, M

Aaron said...

M, I believe I do. I think I do.

Watershed Mark said...

Soeey, I forgot his last name Lynette wrote:

"Maybe you could simply say, "Sorry." Then our moving on would clear your error from our minds. That was the only word missing from your explanation above. (But please don't lie if you are not sorry.)"

Quack and Fib from someone who lies...Have you no shame, sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette?

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette,

You lied, when are you going to admit it and apologize?

M said...

I used to have a Vespa once. I loved that thing. It fit my pocketbook as far as cost went, it was environmentally friendly, and it was unobtrusive. Then one day while riding through the middle of town it got away from me and we crashed into a sewer plant. As I lay there screaming for help I was trampled by a bunch of obstructionists and extremists. As I layed there in pain, I asked out loud "why is there a sewer plant here? Why are you causing me all this pain?
Then I woke up and realized what a horrible dream I had just had.
On a side note, I just stumbled across an issue of the Bay News from 1995.WEEKEND EDITION Friday, June30,1995 Volume Seven Number Twenty-Three. Kindof interesting going back in time like that. Some things never change. For instance, there was someone calling Ann out for her liberal politics.
Anybody remember the swimming pool?
Aaron maybe you could give me an (I don't remember the word for it, but where you use the letters of a name or something and jumble them up) and identify me. Like sharkinlet was. Or do you just mean you think you know my psyche.
Sincerely, M

Aaron said...

M,

Here are -- what I believe to be -- your initials: TS

You are one of a few people who believes the Pismo site is a viable location alternative for the LOWWP.

Whether or not you are TS, you're a reasonable person on here and I appreciate your comments.

Watershed Mark said...

Vespas are for those without a family to take to the beach or hual a boat to and from the lake, river or ocean.
Anyone who owns a vehicle that can haul family, friends and toys wouldn't want a vespa-;-, someone like that who is accustomed to high horsepower would probably opt for a moped-:-0

Churadogs said...

Mark sez:"Vespas are for folks who aren't going very far..."

Friend of mine from college rode his Vespa from L.A. to Yakima, WA. That's a far piece.

Watershed Mark said...

Did he ride it back?

M said...

Aaron, I am honored that you think I might be T.S. I know of a T.S. that is an honorable man that cares deeply about the community and its residents. But that's not me. My conclusion is let's forget about trying to figure out who's who.
So what did you think of my Vespa story?
Sincerely, M

M said...

When I got my Vespa scooter out of mothballs, I found the edition of the Bay News I alluded to earlier.
What was really interesting was an article about the special LOCAC meeting to look at the proposal from Morro Shores Land Company to build a 96 unjit residential subdivision in the center of Los Osos. This site would also have a 1.1 acre storm water retention basin, a 1.3 acre on-site sewage treatment facility, and 1 acre of open space. The site, Tri-W.
Also, A Vons request for expansion was turned down because of the additional loading of nitrates the expansion would bring through the septic system.
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

http://www.crescent-news.com/news/article/4643710

Watershed Mark said...

"This was not a ruling on the merits of the project, whether it was a good idea or a bad idea," explained Schmenk.

I wonder how Judge Schmenk would rule in the PZLDF suit, sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette.

BTW what else are you lying about?

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette,

Correction: What else do you lie about?

Churadogs said...

Mark sez:"Did he ride it back?"

Yep. Back AND forth. He was a braver man than I, Gunga Din.

Watershed Mark said...

There are a number of reasons that people lie. The first is fear. This is the most common reason that people may lie, and they are taking shelter from a perceived punishment. It may be because they know they have done something wrong a single time, in which case it is not compulsive lying. But if they are always in fear of being punished, it may become a habit, which is a second reason for lying. In this case, it may become compulsive lying, which is lying by reflex. Even when confronted by the truth, they insist the lie is the truth in this case. A third case is learning to lie through modeling. When a people see others lie, especially when they get away with it, they may become more prone to lying. Finally, people lie because they feel if they tell the truth they won't get what they want. Thus, out of the main reasons for lying, only lying by habit can truly be called "compulsive lying."

Sorry, I forgot his last name, Lynette,

Why do you lie?

Watershed Mark said...

Well he must have had little but himself to worry about and plenty of time on his hands.

Watershed Mark said...

"Gunga Din" (1892) is one of Rudyard Kipling's most famous poems, perhaps best known for its often-quoted last stanza, "Tho' I've belted you and flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!" The poem is a rhyming narrative from the point of view of a British soldier, about a native water-bearer (a "bhisti") who saves the soldier's life but dies himself. Like several Kipling poems, it celebrates the virtues of a non-European while revealing the racism[?] of a colonial infantryman who views such people as being of a "lower order". The poem was published as one of the set of martial poems called the Barrack-Room Ballads.


Thank you for the reminder Ann.

Sewertoons said...

http://www.wickedlocal.com/northshoresunday/homepage/x594735692/Problems-plague-Plum-Island-sewer

Sewertoons said...

http://www.porthadlocksewer.org/pdf/Ch%202%20-%20Pt_Hadlock_Environmental_Report_&_SEPA_09-08.pdf

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette,

After reading the article and considering these points:

But according to Tuccolo, CDM design engineers chose to place most of the valve pits in the road, rather than off to the side, as AIRVAC recommends. As a result, most of the valve pits do not have the benefit of being insulated by snow cover.

Tuccolo also noted that at least half of the pits are too shallow, and some candy cane vents were placed less than 20 feet from the pits. AIRVAC recommends a minimum 20-foot separation.

An AIRVAC field crew conducted a system evaluation on Feb. 10 and 11, and concluded about the Plum Island system, in part: “freezing ‑ worst we have seen at any project.” AIRVAC has since notified the city via letter that the problem is due to “operator error.”

There were freezing problems with the system over the last two winters, but not on the scale that sewer crews are seeing now. This is the first winter in which the whole island was connected, and it has been the coldest winter of the last three years.

Tuccolo has been in contact with operators of vacuum sewers in Michigan, Alaska and Provincetown.

“The operators from Patterson, Michigan, have also confirmed their pits were freezing,” he wrote, “however, in their system, as AIRVAC recommends, the valve pits are off to the side of the road.”

In Alaska, the pits are located in the basements of homes and have a closed-loop heating system. Provincetown, which enjoys milder winters than Newburyport, has not seen widespread problems with frozen valves.

How many days below freezing does LO/BP have?

How about these prices: betterment fees of at least $10,763and $10,401

CDM should have taken AIRVAC's advice...

It is heartening to see you so hard at work digging deep for dirt on vacuum and you just aren't coming up with anything you can use.

Vacuum is the perfect solution for LO/BP and it costs lest to build and operate than gravity. Also it doesn't leak like gravity.

Why do you suppose Warren hasn't "handled" Lisa's complaint?
Do you think he has read it since he so cavalierly addressed it in open meeting at the BOS?

Meanwhile try a little harder to get that dirt you are looking for on vacuum as you throw away all the con-gravity spillage stories.
It must be disconcerting to sort through all that evidence about how bad con-gravity is looking for your needle in a haystack, but then you haven’t addressed “why you lie.”

Watershed Mark said...

How many inches of snow does the central coast of California get per year, on an average basis, of course?

Sewertoons said...

Mr. Shane Turney – Town Council Member of Trent Woods, North Carolina.

The Town of Trent Woods, when looking at options for wastewater sewer systems, decided on the vacuum system because it was cheaper, not better. He stated there were several problems they were faced with regarding this decision. Even though it was the cheapest route it was also the most problematic. The problems stated being: 1.) initial prediction of eighteen (18) months for installation has turned into four (4) years and still not complete; 2.) the pits located in front of the homes and pump stations not working and pipes in general, leaking which created cavities in the ground.

Watershed Mark said...

Sorry, I forgot his last nane Lynette,

Would you please provide the basis for this statement.
Without a date and other context it isn't very useful.


Also, please cite a public works project that did not take longer and cost more than "expected?"

What about SLOCO's "handling" of Lisa's complaint?
Weren't you one of the folks who thought it was going to be simple to sink...

Watershed Mark said...

Let's find out who the contractor was and who designed it.
Remember what happened when CDM didn't follow the manufacturers "recommendations?"

How much did Terent Woods save?

Watershed Mark said...

4. Trent Woods Vacuum System – Mr. Shane Turney:
Mr. Shane Turney – Town Council Member of Trent Woods, North Carolina. Mr. Turney agreed to speak at the meeting for two reasons; 1.) He is on the Town Board of Trent Woods and Trent Woods has already had to deal with the wastewater issues that are on the table now before the Town of Atlantic Beach and 2.) because Trent Woods has been referenced specifically on the Atlantic Beach website in regards to
their sewer vacuum system and the information that was cited is not completely accurate and wanted to clarify the discrepancy.
Mr. Turney stated that there are some misconceptions regarding septic systems and public sewer systems. The Environmental Protection Agency and Department of Environmental Health and Natural Resources state that septic systems on average are 95% efficient and public sewer system are, at best, 80% efficient. So if a town is thinking about converting, at best, it loses 15% efficiency. One misconception is that public sewer systems are environmentally friendly - NOT TRUE. Septic systems are preferred by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Health and Natural Resources. They overwhelming support septic tank systems, especially managed septic systems, over sewer systems. This data is available on their website. Mr. Turney advised that Council and this committee need to ask themselves just exactly what they are after. Whether protecting existing homeowners and existing waterways and environments are at the forefront or if increasing development is. If the town is after increased development, public sewer system is the way to go. But if not, then the town does not have to look at that as an option. He stated another misconception is: if you do have a developed public sewer system the town will then be required to have a mandatory hookup for all citizens. This is NOT A REQUIREMENT by North Carolina. It is something that the local board can legislate. The Town of Trent Woods, when looking at options for wastewater sewer systems, decided on the vacuum system because it was cheaper, not better. He stated there were several problems they were faced with regarding this decision. Even though it was the cheapest route it was also the most problematic. The problems stated being: 1.) initial prediction of eighteen (18) months for installation has turned into four (4) years and still not complete; 2.) the pits located in front of the homes and pump stations not working and pipes in general, leaking which created cavities in the ground. Mr. Turney suggested that everyone involved do the research, do not make a quick decision and know what you are getting into. He also stated that the Environmental Protection Agency and Department of Environmental Health and Natural Resources websites have a lot of good and useful information.


A lie can be a a lie by ommission, sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette.

Now let's find out who designed and who built the Trent system shall we?
How much did that system cost?

Watershed Mark said...

Next.

Watershed Mark said...

The Board of Commissioners of the Town of Trent Woods held its regular monthly meeting on Thursday, June 4, 2009, at 7:30 p.m. in the George R. Scott, Sr. Municipal Building at 912 Country Club Drive.

It appears Mr. Shane Turney didn’t make it through re-election. Wastewater is hard on folks…

Watershed Mark said...

Parts of the system seem to be straining under current capacity. Residents of Baldwin Hills, the Crenshaw district and Leimert Park have spent decades complaining about a foul "rotten egg" odor from sewer gases from the system around Rodeo Road and La Cienega Boulevard.

A quick and simple Google search of “Sewer Spill Fines” returned 328,000 results.
Now you can get cracking, sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette.

Watershed Mark said...

If you haven't reviewed the slope info from the currently proposed SLOCO study process you will find that the angle of the "big pipe" is very shallow.

When water is further conserved as the years play out the scouring ability in that design will be negatively impacted. That will get stinky...Until the vacuum truck shows up to remove the clog, yuck.