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Friday, October 23, 2009

New Times Commentary

Lisa Schicker has a Commentary in this week’s New Times at:
http://www.newtimesslo.com/commentary/3471/sewer-project-would-dispossess-many-los-osos-homeowners/

Gee, I wonder if The Shredder will find it poo-poo-pee-dooo funny?

183 comments:

Aaron said...

Regardless of how the complaint was initially presented, I believe Lisa's commentary in the New Times was more straightforward and descriptive than her previous editorials.

Some constructive criticism: create a PowerPoint presentation that effectively summarizes the 1,300+ page complaint, document evidence of wrongdoing, cite the County's no-bid contract policy, cite the laws that were broken in conjunction with the contracts instead of basing evidence of letters and opinion that allege wrongdoing.

It's time to move past the commentary and transition into educating the people.

Mike said...

Lisa continues to be in self-denial of her role in increasing the sewer costs to the property owners of our community and the bankruptcy of the District... She skips past her personal sole source selection of the legal counsel... She has very dirty hands indeed...!!!!

At this point, Ms.Schicker is nothing more than a disgruntled activist who has lost every complaint and lawsuit she has tried to have heard...

Sewertoons said...

Lisa has crashed enough sewer projects for me thanks. No more "education" from Lisa is needed - I think $100/out-of-town and the debacle that ensued educated us quite enough about Lisa and her "facts."

All she has is commentary. If she HAD ANY laws that were broken, she would have cited them.

She is doing herself no favors by continuing this.

Watershed Mark said...

Soon it will be shown that defying gravity is the correct thing to do.

GO LISA, the Calvary is on the way.
Government will sink when corrupt..

Watershed Mark said...

Vacuum sewerage, compared to traditional gravity system, uses air instead of water to transport sewage.
Tell us why it was never studied in a $7MM review of alternative.

Oh that's right- you can't...

“Getting rid of Paavo would unravel the entire process”

Don't forget about the law of "unintended consequences"

Watershed Mark said...

THEFT BY DECEPTION:


• “FRAUDULENT CONCEALMENT… The hiding or suppression of a material fact or circumstance which the party is legally or morally bound to disclose…”.


• “The test of whether failure to disclose material facts constitutes fraud is the existence of a duty, legal or equitable, arising from the relation of the parties: failure to disclose a material fact with intent to mislead or defraud under such circumstances being equivalent to an actual ‘fraudulent concealment’…”.


• To suspend running of limitations, it means the employment of artifice, planned to prevent inquiry or escape investigation and mislead or hinder acquirement of information disclosing a right of action, and acts relied on must be of an affirmative character and fraudulent…”.

Source: Black, Henry Campbell, M.A., 'Black’s Law Dictionary’, Revised 4th Edition, St Paul: West Publishing Company, 1968, s.v. ‘Fraudulent Concealment’.

Watershed Mark said...

I think Paavo is right where he should be, don't you?

As I have said before, I'll be here until the end.
Be patient, every dog has its day...

GetRealOsos said...

I hear that Mike is missing Get Real.

So here I am again. Nice to be missed!

Lisa has valid points. The County and it's sole sourcing with the same players year after year. Montgomery Watson Harza, Cleath, and Wallace and the ties between the County and Wallace, MWH and Corollo etc. etc. is a bit much and probably very illegal.

There is no law in SLO County. Gibson has taken over and is very confident and hopefully he'll be busted.

Anyone who reads this and agrees with me on the corruption should take a few minutes to write to the US Justice Dept., attention Eric Holder.

Barbara Walcott wrote a book full of lies to fight any investigation of wrong doing. Her so called facts were lies and can be proved to be just that.

And anyone who has extra time on their hands should complain about how Sam Blakeslee lied to get AB2701 passed ... talk about dirty hands! And don't forget to mention how the RWQCB committed a felony to blackmail homeowners to vote yes on the 218.

Fight for your rights.

Lisa is right and brave. Everyone else who knows the truth should report the wrong doing and illegal activities used to cleanse the town so the developers and realtors and the rest of the food chain can cash in off the people that can't afford to stay. Gibson and Blakeslee work with the developers and have to be stopped.

Alon Perlman said...

Sorry MarkW Ive been watching this up close and personal longer than you have, (but for a darned farriner, yer dooin perty good)There was not enough substance in the initial complaint ('06)as presented by the post recall csd. Given that a verbal contract had obligated both parties (MWH, Yet-Unrecalled CSD). The incoming and out going General managers, had acted in implied consent and included decisions from the board in their actions that were discussed in open session, (and closed session, OF Course). Did the act of backdating (Which is illegal to do) get discussed in open session? Probably not. Did the fact that MWH had done billble work, take place? more than probably. Was there discussion in open csd session that MWH were to have an agreement executed?Probably
Was there discussion in open CSD session that MWH had been awarded a contact (Contract has been executed)? Probably
Were the dates discussed the actual dates of contracts awarded or the day ink was set to paper and "date numbers" appeared that did not match the calender date posted in the office, or on the "Tribune" delivered that morning? hmm Uhe YES?
Was the board aware that the contract was backdated? likely, It may had come up in the closed sessions later.
Did they know prior? hmm, but remember they were intending and had discussed executing the contract. Work they approved had created mutual obligations.
If exposing these events was due dilligance in 2006, then it was done. Presumably all records were reviewed by CSD Lawyers and interested directors and possibly Unelected members of the public, not necessarily ones who would run for csd later, (Unlikely-Not a Legal expert) but others who were not elected did not run and were not employees of the board and did have the "right" kind of expertise, did have a go. The Legal firm that had a contract with the then CSD did submit arguments regarding the issue in '06. And Witnesses who had added their signatures were called.
So why are we here now again? Lisa may think something may come of it, but the orcastrator has other plans, plans that need money. And Lisa can genarate a lot of support by sympathey. The analysis of timing is critical. The Edge-Wilcox and budget crisis helped drag it along. Strategically this thing needs to be carried along through the coastal commission and subsequent lawsuits, INCLUING THE PZ 1983 Challange. Captive audiences. Sympathey, Outrage, opens pockets.
There is some paralell trickle- down to the other one-"Outraged Elder Statesman" and associated captured ECO-Lites
So this will be ridiculed also. (i'm afraid there is no blog on the Newtimes, to get instant verificaion as in the Tribune) and then more indignation, sympathey, distrust.
I know the next step, Do you?
In the above "probably" means I have a good idea, so provide actual evidence if questioning this. After all I sussed it out on this blog comments pretty soon after the first complaint appeared
(four Monthes ago?)

Page 1 of the "Anarchtivists Playbook"
Make the unaware sleeping proletariate awaken to the oppression that will arrive as the powers that be are threatened by the brave action of the Anarctivists"

franc4 said...

"At this point, Ms.Schicker is nothing more than a disgruntled activist who has lost every complaint and lawsuit she has tried to have heard..."

Mike......you just don't get it, do you? For some reason and whoever you are, you just don't like Lisa because she is REAL....(something you will probably never be)...in no way "disgruntled", just plain concerned for her community, something you will never understand since you are too wrapped up in discrediting her. This, to me, appears you have this attitude because you have never done anything nor been concerned for anyone else other than your own sorry butt. Believe it or not, some do care and are concerned for the well being of others....really. Get with it, already.

franc4 said...

Mr. Perlman,

With all due respect, your disapointment with not being elected to the CSD is starting to show in the form of a Monday morning quarterback.

Aaron said...

There's a few things that I think should be clarified.

Without being an apologist for Lisa, I can say that bringing up her "sole-sourcing" of legal counsel really has nothing to do with what she's alleging here. If you want to talk about that, it's best that it would be done under the context of someone filing a complaint against her for just that.

Secondly, Lisa hasn't "lost" every complaint. In this instance, she went through the legal remedy channels to resolve her grievances. The first step was to set forth her grievances with the County, but let's be honest here. It's like asking the tobacco company to investigate themselves for selling products that are addictive and legal. Let's just be clear on that.

Third, Lynette is not exactly telling the truth about those Measure B fliers. There is so proof, no signed affidavits, no acknowledging of concocting that inaccurate $100/month political ploy, but what we do know is this. Gail McPherson and Al Barrow were the ones who first went on the record at LOCSD meetings prior to the 2005 recall election to establish that estimate, not Schicker.

Fourth, Lisa Schicker did document the laws that were broken -- one of them being Government Code §6200, which has served as the underlying foundation for her complaint. Without making any legal exceptions, this law states:

Every officer having the custody of any record, map, or book, or of any paper or proceeding of any court, filed or deposited in any public office, or placed in his or her hands for any purpose, is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years if, as to the whole or any part of the record, map, book, paper, or proceeding, the officer willfully does or permits any other person to do any of the following: (a) Steal, remove, or secrete; (b) Destroy, mutilate, or deface and (c) alter or falsify.

In other words, being legally classified as an alteration of a contract, backdating is -- in fact -- illegal whether or not the alteration of the contract date was agreed upon by the contracting party and the contracted. Board approval doesn't exactly supersede contract law. County Counsel Jensen brought up the legal principle of promissory estoppel, but in his conclusive analysis of materials, he doesn't provide evidence of a written agreement that established the promise for service ultimately being rendered. All he says is that this legal principle applies without follow-through.

Sewertoons said...

Right - and we are supposed to take the legal advice of a first year (?) self advertised law student on that.

I'm curious - if Lisa (in her dreams!) got rid of Paavo - what happens after that? Every bit of work done by the County team - the EIR and the LCP - poof - vanishes? Not now, TOO LATE! Would there be an uproar? Yes, if Lisa had any say in it - and then the project goes ahead (without the Lyles Group) - one way or another - so what is the point at this point - personal vendetta? Sure looks like it to me.

Does the "(a) Steal, remove, or secrete;" part apply to Lisa who allowed Gail to remove CSD documents from the office that Saturday on "her orders?"

Aaron said...

Stick to the point rather than diverting to character attacks -- it would make you seem more credible. That's the way it goes.

Alon Perlman said...

Word verfication; poffe

Sewertoons said...

What? You don't like me following in your footsteps Aaron? Why imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! Weren't character attacks what you were doing to Pandora and Jerry, etc., over on your blog? Is It NOT OK in your mind over here on this blog!? Please! Explain the difference to us!

Sewertoons said...

Aaron says:
"Secondly, Lisa hasn't "lost" every complaint…"

Um, can you name which complaints she has won?

Mike said...

The point I was making and some of you have a problem seeing is that Lisa with all her whinning about sole sourcing by the County, she herself (and probably because she is such a poor manager) sole sourced the legal firm to represent the District...

That poor choice was made because Lisa (and Gail/Al) needed a law firm who would support her agenda of stopping the sewer that was under construction...

And now for Lisa to continue to complain about sole sourceing is pure hypocracy... The fact that she will not let it go is but another sign of how vindictive she truly is...

She is not a teacher or educator, not even a respected professional biologist, she is simply a disgruntled activist who is not getting her way... She has cost this community a lot of money because of her actions as a poor Director and she should be ashamed of her actions...

Ron said...

'toons wrote:

"Um, can you name which complaints she has won?"

'toons, do me a quick favor... run down to the middle of Los Osos, and let me know if you see an industrial sewer plant and trucks full of sludge rolling around your beautiful coastal town.

Then trot over to Lisa's house, and give her a BIG hug.

And, as long as I'm here, so far as I know, there isn't a direct link to that great "backdating contract" document (that Lisa provided to Jensen, and then he called "opinion").

There is now. (You might need your glasses... no whining about the size.)

My favorite part about that great document is where Bruce says that the negotiations between "OE" and "MW" were "contentious."

Uh, yeah, Bruce, I can imagine they were. After all, the ONLY reason the LOCSD was formed in the first place, and the county's "ready to go" project was dumped in the trash by the 1999 Board, was because of the "OE" (DOA) "better, cheaper, faster" project, and then along comes ol' "MW," less than a year later, with a completely different project in mind?

So, oh-hell-yeah, I can easily see how those "negotiations" might have been a little "contentious."

By the way, "MW" got involved on "September 1, 1999?"

Huh?

Good god, exactly WHEN did "better, cheaper, faster" fail?

'Cause I've got all kinds of quotes from then-LOCSD vice-president, Pandora Nash-Karner, from 2000 (including in my July 2000 New Times cover story, Problems With the Solution), where she just goes on and on and on about how rosy her "better, cheaper, faster" project is moving along, and I can guran-freaking-tee that she, unlike Buel, NEVER used the word "contentious" to describe that project in any of those numerous, documentable quotes.

"Contentious?" "September 1, 1999?" "MW?"

Uhhhh... ohhhhh!

Um, what was Mark saying above? Something about "fraudulent concealment?" [And my favorite part about THAT -- fraudulent concealment -- is that it "tolls" the statute of limitations, as I recently reported. Absolutely beautiful.]

Aaron said...

Lynette,

If you want to talk about what's on my blog, talk about it there.

This discussion that we're having requires some personal honesty as in "coming clean" before we talk more about Lisa Schicker's complaint -- since you obviously have a "beef" with me and you've been making my personal character a distraction of the issues for several years. Let's end the character attacks and get it out of our system.

If you want my honest opinion, I think you're just a dishonest, socially retarded leech for Taxpayers Watch who can't even keep her lies straight. You lost the CSD elections in 2006 because your views were very polarized and it was clear that you were pursuing the agenda of Taxpayers Watch -- and Taxpayers Watch have not shown any instance that they're watching any taxpayer especially when it came to the 218 assessment and the unnecessary costs that the County has spent on our taxpayer tab. You're on here almost every day, acting bitter and "holier than thou" because you're overcompensating for your lack of social consciousness.

You're here because Hensley, Albright, Fredericks and Drake are too cowardly to come out of their caves in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border to take the people on.

NOW that's a character attack. Okay, since that's out of our system, let's go back to the discussion.

Mike said...

What a sweet asshole YOU are Aaron... It's too bad you have never been able to complete any education...too many pot busts...??? It is YOU Aaron who has the problem...!!!!! You have believed the lies from the anti-sewer folks because YOU have NO EDUCATION and nothing judge decisions by...!!! Just a drug distorted mind and a need to follow.... The old CSD Directors had you pegged a few years ago as a wet nursing welp who was pulled out of SoCal by your parents who hoped you would get straightened out... You apprently still need mommy and daddy to bail you out....

Go to school, any school, but actually graduate this time and then go get some experience BEFORE you shoot your mouth off... Right now you are proving that you are still a just a little boy with no friends and no one paying you any attention...

ps... your blog is a waste of time!

Aaron said...

Whatever. Shrug and a sigh.

Mike said...

...oh, and those you have tried to post "in caves in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border" are not the cowards you have called them... they actually have educations and jobs... They are not sitting around their parents house and being supported by their mommies... You really are a piece of crap still trying to defend the failures of the Lisa CSD... Go get a real education or go on back to your fairy tales in SoCal... oh, that's right, you can't stand on your own 2 feet, you still need daddy to get you out of trouble...

Aaron said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aaron said...

You're just a paper tiger. Keep talking.

Mike said...

Sorry you can't handle the truth, but we have come to expect that from such an immature little boy... You are just making a bigger fool of yourself every time you try to play the psuedolawyer... you may be impressing the few, but we know you aren't studying law... you're only dabbling at Cuesta... have heard you don't have the grades to get into Poly... If you really want to impress someone, go to Cal Berkeley...of course you would also have to go to grad school...

So what excuse do you live with for not being able to complete an AA Degree at Cuesta....???? You really are a joke when you claim to have/are studying "law"...!!!!!

Aaron said...

Thank you for taking the time to do so much research and come up with distortions... even though I really don't know you. The "guessing game" got old rather quickly.

Keep digging that hole for yourself. With your attitude, you're doing a wonderful thing by validating what I've been saying for all these years.

Mike said...

..you aren't that old enough to have said anything of importance "all" these years...

...you are simply too young to be trying to play like you understand law and you haven't lived in LO long enough to be knowledgeable of the sewer issue other than than the distorted views of your parents...

Aaron said...

You've already lost this debate, Mike. Give it up, paper tiger.

Mike said...

...not a debate or a game, just a statement of fact...!!! You have no stake in the Los Osos sewer issue and you have no education to back your few opinions... You are merely a wantabe schoolyard bully who has to hide behind his parents... light up another one and crawl back on the porch...

Aaron said...

Mike, if I was a "wantabe schoolyard bully," I would be acting just like you.

Mike said...

...no Aaron, you would have graduated college by now and be out in the real world earning a living, not an allowance...

Aaron said...

... and the subject was switched again. Boy, you can't even keep a topic when you're upset. Maybe you should ask your doctor about Adult ADHD.

Mike said...

...subject is still about your "opinion" in which you try to make sound as if you knew anything about law... Schicker continues to press her complaints and yet does not acknowledge her own use of sole sourcing... YOU continue to puff up your chest and try to sound as if you know what you were talking about in defending Lisa's delusions...

Well sonny, you need more than the opinions of the Rock to base your opinions on... Try obtaining a J.D. and passing the Bar Exam... maybe then you'll understand how much you don't know... But if you haven't been able to complete an AA from Cuesta by now, then I doubt you will ever...

Not everyone needs a BA, but if you want to be listened to as a knowledgeable voice, then you need more than local gossip and smoky dreams...

Alon Perlman said...

Thank you 4-F, I had forgotten that YOU had set up that,I post the election link.
franc4 said... ”Mr. Perlman, With all due respect, your disapointment with not being elected to the CSD is starting to show in the form of a Monday morning Quarterback." 8:57 PM, October 23”
4-F; You do understand that your statement is in direct conflict with the postings you made on this previous string?
franc4 said... “A.P....whoever you may be... 7:57 PM, October 06,” - franc4 said... “A.P. (are you not G.H., perhaps?)… 9:37 AM, October 04”
NO FRANC, Foe of Los Osos, I am not disappointed that “I” Lost an Election. Since you have apparently picked up somehow in the space of two weeks That I am THAT Alon Perlman; The one who said at the CSD meeting after the election “My Campaign was never about me, it was about Los Osos.” The one that Local Sierra Club Director, Andrew Christie interviewed, after my receiving the first endorsement by the Sierra Club in that election and wrote-http://santalucia.sierraclub.org/lucian/2008/October08.pdf Page 6
“In addition to the fact that he’s almost frighteningly well qualified for the job, .... and is alert to the potential for additional services or levels of processing and water reclamation. Perlman has advocated that the LOCSD implement a tiered water use rate schedule as a crucial economic disincentive to consumption. They decided to go with an across-the-board increase instead. They were wrong and Perlman was right.”
I think it was in the Bay News - “I have been watching the CSD closely – And have learned from THEIR Mistakes”.
The one who said “I am not going to hate my neighbors”
Not the one who said “I’m not going to lie just to win an election” , but also one of the ones who didn’t. The one who knew that due to the “Vote For One Campaign”, it would be very hard to get a decent run, and predicted, right after the first (Un-televised) candidates forum-” I may only get About 1,500 votes, if I can’t talk them, out of it. So if I don’t get that many I should completely get out of this. (FINAL Count I got within 56 votes of that number, close enough, and there Was a DEIR to submit to, later)
(Them = the Clique within the Clique that controls Move the sewer -My own “Party”) into recognizing that I am not running an expensive campaign, So, please don’t run Against me. Even if I am a true centrist who has walked the walk, and don’t repeat dogma.

”disappointed that “I” Lost an Election?”
I am furious that the good people of Los Osos were not given a chance to freely review and freely select from the Five candidates due to direct and indirect interference by Gail, Past Also runs, and Past Board members in the democratic election process.

Who thought of “in this election, “Two seats open but we only need one, to have a 3 to 2 majority (That will guarantee to keep the Shauna Litigation paid for). So lets go with a Vote for one only Strategy, “Throw Your Other Vote Away For Democracy, Yay.” The process included people who Had Run previously and had a sense of ENTITLEMENT To the position. And therefore a small all-knowing Cabal chose it. Gail’s significant role in influencing the campaign came later and was played from the shadows. (Her Ruby Slippers were Plain for all to see sticking out from under the Burgundy Curtains at the South Bay Community Center.)
No F-4, People who;Monday morning quarterback. Don’t get every point spread all the way to the Superbowl right, even before the season starts, Don’t submit to the County WWTP
“DEIR FINAL DISCUSSION AND SUMMATION -The Fatal Flaw- The county needs to obtain guidance from it’s own EIR Document. This need is hampered, by this disparity between what the EIR is stating (secondary treatment), and what will more than likely happen, after more delays (Tertiary treatment).”

Aaron said...

Mike, Mike, Mike. Your logic is adorable. I should give you one of those happy face stickers that they give to kids in elementary school -- you know, the place where Gordon Hensley needs to stay 200 feet from.

Mike said...

...what are you saying Aaron...??? I don't get the 200 ft thing...

Churadogs said...

Aaron sez:"In other words, being legally classified as an alteration of a contract, backdating is -- in fact -- illegal whether or not the alteration of the contract date was agreed upon by the contracting party and the contracted. Board approval doesn't exactly supersede contract law. County Counsel Jensen brought up the legal principle of promissory estoppel, but in his conclusive analysis of materials, he doesn't provide evidence of a written agreement that established the promise for service ultimately being rendered. All he says is that this legal principle applies without follow-through."

Thank you. Interesting thing in so much of this discussion is the failure to separate things clearly into a fact then an action. For example, was the contract back-dated. Yes. That is a fact. Is back dating a contract illegal. Yes. Will anything be done about it? No. Statute of limitations. Is there a legal issue about re-starting the clock on the limitations to the time when this "fact" was uncovered by the post-recall CSD? Don't think so, at least none I've heard about. Were there mitigating circumstances surround the felonious back-dating? Yes, according to Alon. (Interesting to compare the back dating issue with the personal lawsuit against the CSD members being brought by TPW regarding moving funds from one box to another, so to speak. Illegal? maybe (trial hasn't started, so don't know) Mitigating circumstances? Likely. Board's doing or Blesky's? Don't know yet. What we do know in both cases is there was no intention to defraud by taking the money and going to France, for example.)

Ron sez:"Um, what was Mark saying above? Something about "fraudulent concealment?" [And my favorite part about THAT -- fraudulent concealment -- is that it "tolls" the statute of limitations, as I recently reported. Absolutely beautiful.]"

If true, the trick will be getting anyone to move forward on that. Jensen sure won't and does anyone think the DA will? Things are "illegal" only if and when some official personage charged with "enforcing" the law decides which laws he wants to enforce.

But it's good to separate out a fact (not an "opinion," as Mr. Jensen wants us to beleive) and any actions that follow.

And I see "the children" have lost their marbles again and started in on name calling. Sigh. You guys really do need to go look in a mirror. Every time you start in on that neener-neener stuff, your credibility flies out the window.

franc4 said...

Mike,
Talk about opinion.......
"She is not a teacher or educator, not even a respected professional biologist, she is simply a disgruntled activist who is not getting her way..."

....and whatever gave you the MISTAKEN idea that it takes a "college education" or law degreefor a person to have brains, the ability to research laws, and possess common sense? You seem to be college educated (or are you? if you are your degree must be something like art history or basket weaving, at best), and look at you.......disgrutled, angry, judgemental, envious, INSULTING, etc.......all the signs of a highly educated, degreed person. You continually show how disturbed you are with a complete lack of respect or compassion for fellow man. What's with you, anyhow.

....and 'toons, you are just about the same plus you lie alot, probably because of deep seated rejection of your quest for notoriety, this (blogging)being your only outlet in hopes your weak voice will be heard by someone....anyone.....and that is just MHO.

franc4 said...

Mike said...
...what are you saying Aaron...??? I don't get the 200 ft thing...
........SEE!...further proof you haven't been paying attention!!!!!
Wonder what else you "don't get". Never mind, you prove that point every day.

franc4 said...

Mr. Perlman,
I probably contradict myself alot (I don't keep a file of what I say) and my mood changes alot. However I will stand firm on my latter statement, with one change....I chose to replace "disapointed" with "furious"...'cause I like that better than my first choice, or the other word I pondered....."disgruntled". In short, you, like college graduate Mike, are both________,_______ and/or_______.
Your choice. ;-)

GO AARON!!!!!!!!!

Mike said...

I'm sorry franc (actually 4f suits you better)... sorry you don't have a college degree... I only graduated from Cal Poly and San Jose State, but it sounds like you got the better education in prison... Is that how you know about some 200 ft something...???

Aaron said...

Adding to what Ann wrote, the San Luis Obispo DA did see the backdating as a legitimate pursuit of action except that there was a statute of limitations. That doesn't negate the fact that there was a violation nor does that exempt Mr. Ogren from wrongdoing. The statute of limitations was a response to pursuing legal action against Montgomery Watson-Harza at the time.

Even now, it's an unsettling feeling that a contractor who has been playing politics in Los Osos (donating to such political operations as "Save the Dream") has made it so far up the "objective" screening process -- and it really makes you wonder.

Mike said...

...why Aaron...are you playing games...of course you are...!!!!

C'mon you coward... explain the 200 ft thing... Are you the one who has created the lie you elude to...??? There is a reason you don't have an education or a job...!!!!

Aaron said...

Not this again...

Mike said...

Aaron... you really are weasle dung... you have insinuated that malicious lie once again... Absolutely no truth, but you like to be the smug little snot... You really are an immature little boy who continues to fail to act like someone of knowledge, but you just keep falling back on your butt...

Go look up Mr.Hensley's education and experience... you have neither and will never have... He doesn't need to make up lies to make his points... I'm sure his lawyers would like to discuss your concern... just call him for an appointment...!!!!

Aaron said...

If you can't distinguish between a joke and a "lie," then you shouldn't be the one lecturing me about having an education. After all, you were educated by the University of Atascadero State. Your insults aren't even Cal Poly-grade.

If you want to go another round with me today, I'd be more than happy to have some fun. I have yet to roll out my best material.

beeooch said...

Mike (gordon),
why badmouth Aaron? He's bright & articulate, YOUNG but not THAT young, & he's certainly NO DRUG USER. Where does YOUR info come from? Funny how NO ONE ever mentions the drug abuse by the sons of former LOCSD Board members & the son of a local "real estate tycoon".(Some resulted in deaths)
To Alon,
You are right, the community suffered because you were not elected to the LOCSD. It was due to Gails tampering & interfering. But this is NOT the first MESS gail has caused for this community. I can't understand why more people haven't "gotten it" yet about her. She has done NO GOOD for this community & it's probably because of HER that Lisa's complaint was not taken seriously by Jensen. Gail has a nasty habit of always throwing in distractions & distortions to throw people off. Wake up people, Gail is NOT the saviour for Los Osos. Far from it.

Mike said...

Be-an-och...or whatever, but you never have been a good guesser... I'm still not Gordon... I am a good friend though and am disappointed that sonny boy chooses to continue to play games with such an inappropriate topic... Aaron doesn't have the guts to meet Gordon and make that remark... Arron certainly has no credibility within this community... just a smart-ass with no education or common sense...!!!!

Aaron said...

Mike,

I play all sorts of games, but none of the games I play have ever resulted in a $165+ million project at $250+/month. Common sense with four exclamation points!!!!

If Gordon's a good friend of yours, bring him to me. I'll call NBC Dateline and bring Chris Hansen over. We'll have a party.

beeooch said...

Mike or whoever, I really do pity you, especially if you are a friend of old Gordo's. You must be old Jimmy if you're not El Gordo himself. Who are YOU to say Aaron has no credibility? You didn't comment on your buddies kids drug use/suicides. Wonder why? Getting too close to home?

Mike said...

What a stupid "new" name you've come up with.... Aren't you a sweet thing... I have no idea what you're babbling about... Gordon and Linda don't have children...

You must be pretty sick... Q&F

Mike said...

Geez Aaron, you are such an ass... No guts...??? Why don't you try to get Dateline to play your silly games... Gordon didn't start your bull shit lie, he just laughs at fools like you... and goes on doing what he's really good at... Are you good at anything...????

Didn't think so... did you even graduate from high school...???

Aaron said...

Yes, I'm good at using common sense and a spellchecker.

Mike, you're not exactly making the best case for Gordon and Linda. The last time I saw Gordon, I was at Ralph's and when he saw me, he took his little niece and held her up to his face to use her as a defenseless shield. If that isn't cowardly, I don't know what is. He'll confront Joey Racano at Starbucks but he won't look at me in the eye.

Trivialities aside, you're making your people look worse and worse for every comment you make with those "Q&F" death threats you make and your anonymous-tinged diatribes, which makes nails going down a chalkboard sound more pleasant in comparison.

I'm starting to pity you now even though you're some graduate from the University of Atascadero State and I'm some lowly young dude. You call me a little boy a lot. Are you sure you're not a pedophile?

Mike said...

OK Aaron...

http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/index.aspx?lang=ENGLISH

So, please tell us Aaron, is your claim a lie ? Libel? Or just bitter vicious attempt at character assassin?

Either way an apology is certainly due.

In all the years since the unfounded rumor, or in this specific instance, this invented lie...which only was created during the Recall... by...??? Aaron...??? but it is certainly a lie intended to discredit...

You are an incredible liar Aaron... You are the very poster child of the aniti-sewer obstructionist in Los Osos...

Aaron said...

I must have struck a nerve.

If I wasn't joking about this, you'd be in big trouble. Your behavior is validating suspicion.

If you're a honest man, you should answer this question.

Are you Jim Hensley, Mr. Hensley's father?

beeooch said...

Mike, get a job or a "hobby"...YOU have way too much time on your hands. What has Aaron EVER done to you or your cronie Hensley? I do know for a fact that Gordo was NOT much of a student, in fact Linda did all of his work. Thank God, they have no children, at least the gene pool will stop with him. BTW, I was Not referring to Hensley when I mentioned "your buddie's" son's drug abuse/deaths. Hensley is NOT the ONLY former CSD member. Go back to re-hab, bud.

Mike said...

No Aaron, I am not Gordon or his father... but I am a friend who is damned tired of hearing some ass like you repeating a total fabricated lie about Gordon...!!!!!!

It's not a bit "funny" to make up and continue that lie... I have sat down and talked with Gordon and I have talked with the police... There is absolutely no truth to that lie... NONE!!! The suspicion is that one of the extremists in the Recall made up that lie in a vicious character assassination... Joey, Kieth, you...???? Then when you, out of nowhere made your assinine remark, it totally pisses me off...

I can assure you that Gordon is not afraid of you Aaron... He is a hell of a lot more of a gentleman and Christian than I am... He just has to endure the bastards who smugly try to smear him... It's too damn bad that rumor wasn't made up about you Aaron, then you would see why that particular remark is so infuriating... I've talked with ministers and coaches, it's unfortuately one of the nasty tactics used by cowards like those who created the whole Recall... That one remark typifies the entire Recall and the consequences the CSD5 brought to this community....!!!!

Aaron said...

Good grief, Mike. Guess I have to put an end to your reign of trollish behavior.

Mike, you're no friend of Gordon. You've done more on this blog to damage Taxpayers Watch and his reputation than anyone has ever done at public comment for the past four years -- and I think most readers can see that, but don't feel the need to bring that up because you're anonymous and there's a knee-jerk "Who cares?" reaction when it comes to people like you.

The big question is: who do I care to respond to you? You're ReApprazor. Without exaggerating what you've done, since 2006 you've made death threats, thrown around slanderous, bigoted remarks hurled at all the people you despise. Ann continues to say, "Oh, it's just anonymous," but I think it's more than that. If what you say is true and if you say that your anguish accurately represents what the "community" feels, then you are the prime example of what's wrong with Los Osos. You can be totally right when you blame certain people for their misconduct, but when you're the one stooping to their level as an example of how these "obstructionists" act (I call it the "mirror complex"), then you're doing a complete disservice to civility.

Believe it or not, I've heard rumors about me and some of them have come from you as a matter of fact -- but to address your rumors in simplistic terms, I do have an education and I will continue to pursue it. If my opinions and research were to be credible only if they are in my purview of my occupation, then how come you're not applying your strict standard of scrutiny to the founding members of Taxpayers Watch? 90% of the power players are wastewater engineers... so maybe I should say to them, "You know what? Your opinion doesn't matter because you're not educated in that area or does the subject matter relate to your occupation." It's silly.

You seem to have this new angle to go after my education so you've made a handful of assumptions -- which are patently false, by the way -- but nowhere have you shown the proof that you graduated from Cal Poly. You haven't proven that you're an Industrial Project Manager. I kindly asked you for your resume and your response to me at the time was, "I'm not sending it to you. I don't trust you!" so why bother bringing up my education when you won't even bother to suck it up and post your credentials?

And lastly, Christians don't hurt other Christians. Gordon Hensley has committed the ultimate "hate crime" of the middle-class by supporting a sewer that the majority of PZ homeowners can't afford. Your words are not words spoken by a Christian, so don't offend Christianity by uttering the name of that belief system to boost your anonymous-fueled bravado.

beeooch said...

Mike, you are one angry dude! You need ANGER MANAGEMENT big time. Maybe back to re-hab. I can call the P.E.T for you if you keep going with your sick tirades. Now you've got me thinkin', maybe you're old Al.

alabamasue said...

Mike,
I hope you can inspire Gordon to sue Aaron over his remarks. It's not a joke; it's not funny, and it needs to stop NOW. By the way 'Beeooch" is just another name for Aaron's mother Pam Ochs, AKA Lisa Klump. These people are really sick. Don't let it bother you, okay?

Aaron said...

Time out.

If I had deep pockets, thousands of dollars to pay for legal representation and hours of time on my hands to retrieve every comment that was hurled at me, I could sue Mike for all his weird, zany comments about me, but it is a tribute to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution that he can say all those things -- not that anything I just said will truly register to those who aren't listening.

It pains my little boy heart to say this, but Pam does not blog and she hasn't since 2006 when she wrote as herself on SanLuisObispo.com where, incidentally, ReApprazor often called her a "bitch" despite the fact that she was calm and respectful even when facing the adversity of a bunch of angry anonymous. To come on here and make finite statements that attack my family is, to me, hitting below the belt so let's not go there.

I don't know how Ms. Calhoun would feel if you talked about her family on here. I would imagine that those people would meet the same fate as 4CrapKiller (Jon Arcuni), who was unceremoniously axed after the comments he's made. Parallels can be drawn here. I have faith that she'll do the right thing when such inane behavior starts to rear its ugly head again.

Aaron said...

Something to wrap up this wonderful evening:

I told mom about how these fine folks thought beeooch was her. Before she chuckled, her eyes were pre-rolled -- she was going to roll her eyes completely, but because she's rolled them so much over these people, we're concerned she might so blind. Long story short, she got a laugh and wanted to relay the following message to Mike and alabamasue:

"If you guys are stupid to think that person is me, it shows that you're just as stupid to go with a gravity system."

There you go. Enjoy. Discuss.

Sewertoons said...

Aaron, it really doesn't matter which sewer is picked now. The delay - and we are still in delay mode - is costing more each month - NOTHING is cheap anymore.

You can say the PROJECT overall for STEP/STEG might be cheaper. But maybe not. Those who have 25' lots would need not only a fiberglass tank to prevent leaks - concrete tanks leak - but also a concrete vault to put that in if they intended to use that driveway to drive on. That would up the cost of the project tremendously. (The homeowner pays to replace that driveway.)

Who replaces the fences? (Remember - your trees are gone, but you might want to put in some native grasses to replace them). The homeowner. You have no idea how many jury rigged electrical systems are around here do you? What do you think fixing all that will cost the homeowner to allow for a STEP pump hook-up? There is a lot that is not up to code around here - getting there will cost a bundle. Who pays for that? The homeowner.

I would think that there are many that do not want to give up their property rights over that tank - no trees, no deck, no walkway, no control. Although it does cross my mind that going STEP would mean NO SEWER for a very,very long time as the lawsuits work their way through the court systems… To solve that - put it in the right of way you say? Then all the tanks need to be doubles to bear the weight - and there goes your cost savings.

Churadogs said...

O.K. Children (and you know who you are) Get a grip or I'm going to start hitting the little garbage can and dump you. You're like a bunch of dogs returning again and again to the same old vomit. It's not only pointless it's stupid and its boring. You're just pushing each other's buttons like a pair of crazy people. Ridiculous. So knock it off. And the rest of you get a grip. And stay focused. The Coastal Commission (not the "anonymous" posters on this blog) now will check in and what THEY decide (not some of you idiots blithering on with !!!!s and neener-neeners) will determine what happens here.

So grow up and get a grip. Thank you.

beeooch said...

Sewertoons, YOU are so out of touch witih reality! It would be a GOOD THING if these properties around town would HAVE to be brought up to "code". It is the homeowners responsablity to bring everything into compliance, even if it means a demolition job on that property. Many of which around this little berg should have long ago been demo'd. As for the 25 ft. lots, THOSE should never have been developed in the first place. The county is responsible here. As for the illegal wiring, plumbing & additions, bringing that into compliance is the responsability of EACH homeowner. Look what code enforcement did with Dan Duvall, & he's "out of town". Now, compare that to all the junker cars, rv's, motor homes & boats that are parked in MANY driveways around here...Code enforcement needs to do a sweep around here & clean this trash up, many of us are sick of looking at this unsightly mess.
Now, as for Aaron, what has he SAID about Hensley that is a "lie"? Whatever "rumors" are going around about Hensley, I have NOT heard. The only thing I know for sure is that he is an arrogant, incompetant failure.
Getting back to the sewer issue, isn't it true that MOST septics are located in the front of the property & NOT under driveways? I have NOT seen any properties with the FRONT yard fenced, so losing a fence is a "non issue". Don't sweat the SMALL STUFF, Lynette.

Aaron said...

Thank you, Ann.

If you look at the history of the Los Osos wastewater project, most of the time delayed (and the sharpest inflation rate increase) was from the County, but now all the wars of the world are blamed on current "obstructionists." Let's see. So if the County has delayed the sewer for about 30 years or so, does that make them NO SEWER too?

Did all the CAWS/CCLO lawsuits play a role in the delay of sewer construction? Sure, but we're looking at a timespan when the community was faced with a wastewater project that was not properly vetted to the community. When the district was first formed, the Solutions Group produced a flier that said their proposed project was $38/month but little did people realize that the Solutions Group did not go through the same process that the County is going through now to validate that claim. Instead, the RWQCB shut that project down and MWH appeared only a few years later with their wastewater management plan. There was a lot of time spent there as well. Was the Solutions Group NO SEWER too?

So if I apply LT's logic, then it's clear that a big chunk of the delay has come from the County and Nash-Karner -- so they must be NO SEWER. Brilliant!

Lynette, I suggest you e-mail Mike Saunders of Orenco, copy and paste what you just wrote and send it his way. I would love to see how your words hold up to your expertise or lack thereof.

FOGSWAMP said...

Sewertoons

Does STEP/STEG still have a pulse?

Alon Perlman said...

Beeochtiful, are you imitating lisa k?
There are land use councils that represent the people of unincorporated areas. You could Drive, to the South bay community center on the Fourth thursday of the month. You can go to the County and planning commission meetings. You could do anything realy, other than what you are doing.
Ann, has pointed out that the fate of the sewer is currently in the hands of the CCC. Why don't some of the self acclaimed Sewerologial Geniouessses; post the condition that has generated the two appeals BY Commission members, and the appeals themselves and then we can sparate the boys from the men, and from the women posting as men and vice versa. This could return to being a real forum.
And why do dogs vomit? have you seen what happens when they come across Cat Scat? disgusting.
derivitive reworking of old propaganada.
Word Verification; gronag

Sewertoons said...

beeooch - so you ARE in favor of economic cleansing! That is really sad, I'm sorry to hear that. So THAT is why you have been "no sewer" - to drive the price as high as possible to kick as many out as possible. Do you have a financial interest in doing this? Or are you just mean? People on fixed incomes are supposed to pony up a ton of money? How are they going to do that? If they even had properties that were paid for, what do you think they are worth now? Do you think that they will quality for a loan to fix all this stuff that you rail against - let alone pay for the wreckage a new step tank would leave in their yards? 25' lots - on which PEOPLE'S HOMES are built - should never have been developed - well, too bad for you - they were. Why don't you go live in Carmel? People's lives are invested in their property and you are mean and low to denigrate their HOMES.

I have friends on 25' lots. They have tiny septics on the edge of their driveways that require 3 year pumping - which is not the size of the tanks proposed if STEP were to be used. In any case, their entire driveway would go to fit the new - in their case plural - tanks.

Sorry - my yard is fenced. Inside the yard is where the County placed the tank on the arial. You are mistaken - you obviously need to get out more and look around.

Sewertoons said...

FOGSWAMP - STEP/STEG has been dead a long time - a reanimated zombie by those who didn't pay attention the first two times it expired. Picked up and embalmed by the County to try to give it a decent and kind burial. Some still don't listen and try to keep the corpse alive. It is just getting stinkier, but no more animated despite the best and brightest voodoo efforts of the cult.

Sewertoons said...

No Aaron, you are compressing the timeline and forgetting that the complaints against the County went on for years and along side that was a no-sewer cabal doing the no-sewer jig.

The Solutions Group inherited a rickety district from the County and no money - it could hardly do the job that the County has spent millions doing now. The Solutions Group did their mea culpas and MOVED ON to a project that was funded and going in the ground until the "move-the-sewer" machine got people riled up and wrecked the project. Now we have liens on our houses to pay for this next version instead of a monthly bill - which unless a miracle occurs will be more costly than Tri-W.

Read the Planning Commission exchange between David Dubbink and Mike Saunders if you want to get educated on what Orenco thinks it would do and what it actually would have to do.

Aaron said...

As we've all learned in Los Osos, mea culpas cost money.

I'm not compressing anything. If the County didn't permit those septic tanks in the first place, we would not be in this mess today. Essentially -- and I will compress things a little to summarize -- the complaints against the County all had an underlying theme: the County did not deliver a proper wastewater project.

I've read the Dubink-Saunders exchange, but you're still rather... incurably incorrect about the details. I would still recommend e-mailing Ripley Pacific or Mike Saunders of Orenco if you want to get educated.

Watershed Mark said...

Gravity sewerage leaks, vacuum collection costs less and does not leak.

Why wasn't it studied, sorry, I lost his last name and got him confused with your outfit Lynette?

Why not point us to the link that wxplains why it wasn't? (That's because you can't)

Mike said...

'toons... we have more than just a lien, we also have to pay back the contractors when the bankruptcy is finally addressed... much more stalling and the judge is going to toss the bankruptcy out and the contractors will begin the lawsuits... We also get to repay the Bond monies taken by the CSD5...double paying for the BW&S advice on those bonds...

It was fun to read Aaron's madeup (or his mommy's) revised history of the sewer war... 'toons version is much more accurate...and now the "move-the-sewer" folks get all the credit for stopping the lawful construction... Lisa and Aaron are simply wrong in their opinions... poor legal advice Aaron... Where did you say you did your law studies...??? Same place as Gail...??? You both sound alike...

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE little mouse,

The SLOCO BOS had better choose wisely.

Mike said...

They have...!!! They didn't accept your "proposal"...

Watershed Mark said...

The smaller the mind the greater the conceit.
Aesop

Mike said...

...and your conceit is greater...

Sewertoons said...

Touche!

Sewertoons said...

Aaron, I read Ripley's stuff and Orenco's - an engineer who left parts of the project off and a salesman. Sorry, I'm sticking to the County's assessment. Don't you remember the fiberglass tanks Orenco was pushing at Farmer's market - not exactly what we'd need to get, but I guess the concrete vault was just too big to lug around to show folks - or maybe just too coffin-like.

Aaron said...

Ann should press the garbage can on Mike already. He's done.

You know, I find the whole "salesman" argument to be ironic given that the entire competitive bidding process consists of wastewater contractors who are, in effect, selling their wares to the County.

You and I both know that the County has included gravity collection in their project scope scenarios since the ratification of AB2701 into law. Additionally, Carollo, Lou Carella and the Wallace Group have been, in fact, selling gravity collection as the only viable system for Los Osos -- especially during the time when all those people had both financial and business relations with Montgomery Watson-Harza.

Now, consider this. Carollo Engineers used MWH -- now one of the top three on the RFQ as a contractor -- as a subcontracted consultant for the project in 2006 and they were contracted for $40,000 of the estimated $849,498 total cost. Suffice to say, they were given $40,000 to evaluate how great their own product is -- and look where they are now. And you wonder why so many of those so-called "no-sewer obstructionists" are concerned that this is not a fair design-build process.

You haven't proven to me that you've read Ripley's stuff. I really wish you'd stop lying all the time.

Mike said...

Sorry Aaron... I haven't crossed the line, but YOU have...!!!

All your "legal" expertise amounts to speculation and very poorly at that...

I've been in SLO & LO for nearly 66years and Ann knows that while I get a little peeved at the sewer obstructionists, I don't make things up, nor do I lie... You, my friend, have done both...!!!

Alon Perlman said...

Sorry Ann, Direct Chi-Wah-Wah Hum(m)ing of a bigger dog’s leg has to be handled internally. According to laws laid down in DNA by coexistence with saber toothed tigers, and not by the neurotic behaviors of inbred lap dogs exhibiting the dysfunction of their human families. This is for the sake of the entire pack.

franc4 said... a while back “Alon is disappointed that he didn’t win an election”
My response included I Knew-“it would be very hard to get a decent run, and predicted, right after the first (Un-televised) candidates forum-” I may only get About 1,500 votes,” (1444 Actual)
Honestly gotten votes on a shoestring campaign unaided by the misuse of the ReCall mailing list, or by Directorial misconduct. I am the only person who “knows what happens next” to that level of precision. I expected to be made into an “Enemy” by some. I have to trust that within “move the Sewer” are still some intellectually honest people who would be immune to the propaganda, that is spread by email, and whispers. But my predictions were correct. Too bad, that not enough people learned that there is an honest, upfront alternative to Gail, A Wise, truthful substitute for Al. A regulatory experienced, legally astute replacement to Lisa.
The back stabbing was there. I Expected it, part of running.
Incidentally did you see the first CSD meeting after AB2701 passage? As soon as I said “You (CSD) will have to work with the county” Al Barrow disrputed the meeting by yelling “Traitor”. When the meeting later resumed, Chuck (?) stated “we have no intention of doing anything but, working with the County”. But Black PR repeated, turns some to the dark side.
You see 4-f two other people lost the election. It is GAIL who was disappointed that she couldn’t keep out the two current new CSD directors who seem to be doing a good Job keeping the district going, and did end the legally tenuous Sullivan-Gail-CSD arrangement.
But of course You hear what you want to hear, therefore you repeat=
“However I will stand firm on my latter statement, with one change....I chose to replace "disapointed" with "furious"...'cause I like that better than my first choice, or the other word I pondered....."disgruntled". In short, you, like college graduate Mike, are both________,_______ and/or_______.
Your choice. ;-)”

Sure, wink your brown eye at me, anoniloooozer. Pathetic manipulator of your own friends, outside of PZ “Justice Seeker”. What an empty shell you are.
Word verification; misconsiz

Mike said...

Stand your ground Alon...!!! You're right on in your analysis...

I don't always agree with you (or even understand), but you seem to be a pretty straight shooter...

beeooch said...

Sewertoons (Lynette),
GET A GRIP! I am not & never have been for "economic/social cleansing"...Seems to me that's what YOUR group, Taxpayers Watch is all about! You certainly have a way of distorting the truth & blowing things out of proportion! I still think it's a step in the right direction to get rid of all the junkers, rv's, travel trailers, boats, etc. that are just rotting away in people's driveways & front yards. HOW DOES THAT equate to economic cleansing? Those things lower everyone's property values. What exactly is YOUR expertise, that you say it would cost people TONS of money to bring their properties into compliance & up to code? You certainly are no contractor or builder, why do you pull this drek out of thin air? The county is responsible for the way Los Osos was developed (?) Let them finally accept that responsability. Just because I believe the County to be a large part of the problem, does not mean I am "NO SEWER". Let's just do it right. Another problem I have with the County, is their sole sourcing of contracts. It's not ethical & for those of US that are paying for this thing, we want the MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK...Why is that so difficult for you to understand, Lynette????

Aaron said...

Mike,

For someone who has been on this planet for 66 years, you sure don't have much to show for it.

Alon Perlman said...

O.K. Friends, no need to sling it around that much.
There has been a lot of Monkey hash slung around already. And if you have to sling it, do it as a wise Ourangutang, not as a chattering Macaqu.
Most of Los Osos Is Tiiiired.
The streets of Los Osos Don't want to be represnted by an Intelctual Elite. They told me so.
The Cal Poly Professors Don't Want to be "Taught". They told me so.
It has been established on this Blog Comment section that Al, Gail, are pretty much not to be trusted, by anyone.
So some people are associated with a group that is preceived by others to have done bad things.
Group morphing is not an exclusive perview. Groups that move on? Sub-groups with vested interests? Group that take on a persona and ethos of a victim? Can they move on? Can they evolve? Or do they Just pick up new members and reycle? people get their information how?

What are filters? WHoop Whop, "Youve exposed the daily double, what is your wager"

I Know More About Los Osos Than the Avarage Bear, and I freely share that information.
So why are you not more popular Alon? Popular with who exactly?
but, to answer the question;
"I Know More About Los Osos Than the Avarage Bear, and I freely share that information."

Word verification; sulangan
Oh, and second word verification? funie

Shark Inlet said...

Based on a quick read of the last three days of (mostly) tripe comments, three things are worth commenting on.

First, Aaron when you wrote:

"And lastly, Christians don't hurt other Christians ... has committed the ultimate 'hate crime' of the middle-class by supporting a sewer that the majority of PZ homeowners can't afford."

it seems clear that you are saying that Jesus would have opposed TriW because it was too expensive. That is far from clear. If the (realistic) alternatives to TriW aren't any cheaper and especially if they are likely to be more expensive, the Christian thing to do might very well be to support TriW. However, let's be honest here. The Bible doesn't discuss wastewater treatment plant location or collection systems. Perhaps you made your comment in jest, but the force of your language doesn't suggest so.

Second, Beeooch (welcome, by the way) suggested, on the issue of 25 foot wide lots and STEP, that because the County approved the development of such lots back in the 1970s (and earlier), they should be responsible to pay the costs for putting in a more expensive tank than folks with wider lots. Perhaps if the entire cost of STEP, including tank retrofitting, was to be picked up by the County and then divvied up equally across the PZ, this would be reasonable ... but we all know that if this were the plan, the "costs" of STEP wouldn't pencil out as better than gravity ... more of a wash. [On a related note, I still feel the County bears some large amount of responsibility here because they approved the construction of many more lots per acre than they knew would be acceptable and they neglected to put in a sewer back when they knew of the density problem. Whether their earlier attempt(s) to put in a sewer (in the 80s and 90s) effectively relieves them of their responsibility still seems to be a reasonable discussion.]

Lastly, thanks to Alon and Ann for trying to bring some sense of perspective here.


Word Verification: madeup

Aaron said...

Just don't bring up religion in a conversation. Even though I'm not a religious person, defending someone by saying, "He's a good Christian!" opens up a can of worms.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,

You want perspective, but you can't handle perpective, just like Paavo...

Why wasn't vacuum studied?

Mike said...

Say Mark... A while back, you sent off a letter or e-mail to Paavo asking that very question... now how about posting his responses...

We just can't believe you never received an answer....!!!! Was it something you didn't personally like, but you want us to continue listening to your whinning...????

Oh, BTW... You must answer according to Aarons blog rules...he is now the blog czar with power over Calhoun's Can(n)ons... and leave your religious views in Arizona...

Watershed Mark said...

Here ya go:

From: Mark Low [mailto:mark@nowastewater.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 2:53 PM
To: pogren@co.slo.ca.us; BGibson@co.slo.ca.us
Cc: Mark Low
Subject: LOWWP Collection Alternative Study -Renewed Request for Information

Greetings Gentlemen,

I have been asked to “post” your response to my previous inquiry(s) regarding vacuum collection.


“ Mike said...
Say Mark... A while back, you sent off a letter or e-mail to Paavo asking that very question... now how about posting his responses...

We just can't believe you never received an answer....!!!! Was it something you didn't personally like, but you want us to continue listening to your whinning...????

Oh, BTW... You must answer according to Aarons blog rules...he is now the blog czar with power over Calhoun's Can(n)ons... and leave your religious views in Arizona...
12:51 PM, October 27, 2009 “
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=13758431&postID=6886772993716504710&isPopup=true

Would you please provide your response, if any?

My best regards,

Mark


From: Mark Low [mailto:mark@nowastewater.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 12:49 PM
To: BGibson@co.slo.ca.us
Cc: pogren@co.slo.ca.us
Subject: LOWWP Collection Alternative Study -Corrected Copy


Greetings Supervisor/Chairman Gibson,

In light of the current financial and economic circumstances that did not exist when the County began its work towards a sewer, this time around, I wondered if you could shed some light on “why vacuum collection was never studied” by Paavo’s sole source/no bid consulting engineer.

I will appreciate any insight you could share with me regarding what appears to be an oversight of a very viable technology that was not part of your $7,000,000.00 study of alternatives.

Respectfully yours,

Mark Low

From: Mark Low [mailto:mark@nowastewater.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:29 AM
To: pogren@co.slo.ca.us
Subject: LOWWP Collection Alternative Study -Corrected Copy


Greetings Paavo,

Would you please illuminate why “vacuum collection” was never studied by your consulting engineer?

After hearing your words: “if there is a technology that is significantly less expensive, then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away” during an August 2007 BOS meeting Prior to the 218 vote, I and others were led to believe that you actually intended to look at and study technology that is significantly less expensive than the leaky energy intensive conventional gravity you RFQ’d.

I and others will appreciate your prompt response.

Regards,

Mark

T- 480.834.7975

Shark Inlet said...

While I tend to agree with you, Aaron, that saying someone is a "good Christian" is quite often irrelevant to a conversation, and while your response was likely meant to be over-the-top to make a point, it still fell flat with me. If you want, I could construct an argument that is at least as logically sound as what you wrote (if not more so) that a good Christian would have supported the TriW plan.

As to Mark's ramblings ... why do you even bother, Mark? I didn't say that I wanted perspective and you are not the one who gets to judge whether I can handle perspective or not. In short, you are as off-topic and irrelevant as ever. Maybe once you show that you understand the aquifer you sit on top of we can discuss Los Osos as equals. Prove yourself worthy!

(And to those who want to accuse me of tossing troll-bait out there ... you caught me ... but it is fun!)


Today's Microsoft sponsored Word Verification: revista

Aaron said...

I wasn't referring to Tri-W.

In my honest opinion, Mr. Hensley has not exhibited model Christian behavior, hence the remark, "Christians don't hurt other Christians." After he was recalled for -- among other reasons -- not being open and transparent regarding his board's proposed, costly wastewater project (again, not just Tri-W, but for the whole package), Hensley formed Taxpayers Watch and filed lawsuits that did not publicly benefit taxpayers. The lawsuits were accountability suits, but not aimed at providing compensatory relief for PZ residents.

Hensley was not respectful to his constituents. Instead of direct meetings and going through the formal, diplomatic channels to find a resolution, he files lawsuits. Not only has he filed lawsuits, he has been verbally and physically threatening people who disagree with him. His actions as a CSD board member do not correlate with the actions of a youth minister from the Newport Church of the Nazarene.

Shark, I know you're more of an expert in Christian theology and teachings than most people here -- and I respect your opinion. Do you feel concerned that some people go to church only to dismiss the cannon and sin repeatedly? Do you take exception to that? I'm not trying to bait anyone into discussing religion here, just the hypocrisy.

Mike said...

Aaron, you have used a lot of grownup words, but made no point...

I don't believe you know who Gordon Hensley is... You certainly don't know who his "niece" is, you don't know what a Youth Minister is or why he left, you don't even know what lawsuits "he" has filed... Do you know the present state of those lawsuits... Would you say those lawsuits where to obtain "accountability"...??? How would you describe the lawsuits of Al, Lisa and Julie...???

How would you know if Mr.Hensley hasn't tried to make eye contact with you...You very noticeably, never made eye contact with any of the CSD Board members when you presented your prepared ramblings against the sewer...

You just spin a lot of words to see yourself in print...

Churadogs said...

Inlet sez:"Perhaps if the entire cost of STEP, including tank retrofitting, was to be picked up by the County and then divvied up equally across the PZ, this would be reasonable ... but we all know that if this were the plan, the "costs" of STEP wouldn't pencil out as better than gravity ... more of a wash."

If memory serves, that's what the Ripley plan was supposed to do, wasn't it? Included the cost of tanks, installation and maintenence and still came in a bit cheaper than Tri W? Also included in-right-of-way-tanks for small lots & etc.

Inlet sez:"Lastly, thanks to Alon and Ann for trying to bring some sense of perspective here."

I dumped that ugly-on-a-stick Crap Killer because he threatened to "out" the votes on the assessment vote. If you recall, you pleaded to give him a second chance, I did, he ignored the warning, so I started dumping him.

I've given all you guys plenty of rope to go hang yourselves, (which some of you have done in spectacular fashion) but I'm getting very tired of your abuse of this space (you know who you are) so I'm seriously tempted to start dumping these pathetic neener-neering runs. They're pointless. What say the rest of you? I'm sure you're as tired of this childish crap as I am.

Apropos of which, isn't it interesting that very few of these neener-neerers bothered to discuss the content of Lisa's op/ed, just started attacking people personally. Show's they've lost the argument up front but apparently don't know it. And what's with personally attacking Alon? Man had the courage to actually stand for office, which is more than you anonnymice ever did. And all he's contibuted here is excellent information and content-rich opinions (and some funny bits) all without attacking anyone. WHile some of you anonnymice, who are too scared to even put your own names on your own drivel, continue your sophomoric personal attacks. Pathetic.

beeooch said...

Shark,
I didn't mean to imply that the county should subsidize whatever system is chosen for the owners of these undersize lots. The homeowners chose to purchase them,hence, THEY own the responsibility of paying the bill for whatever system. It also seems to be a large number of these owners of the postage stamp size lots are the same people ACQUIRING most of the litter & debris. If they feel the need to acquire all this "stuff", they have the option of renting a storage facility, selling or hauling away all this superfluous "stuff". Further, I'm also not implying that it's all of them or ONLY the owners of small lots that accumulate the "eyesores". And, NO I am not an elitist because I like things kept neat & tidy. It's called "PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP". I do believe the county needs to assume it's fair share in ownership of helping solve the problems THEY created here in Los Osos due to their lack of planning.

Watershed Mark said...

GO LISA, the Calvary is on the way.

Ann, I understand about your cautionary words to stay off personal attacks and on topic. If my comments were out of line, I want to apologize to you for them. With that stated, it is important to keep the record straight and to that end I offer the following off topic responses to off topic comments from Steve and MIKE:

10. Why is Phoenix’s water supply so different from rural Arizona’s supply?
Comparing Phoenix’s water supplies to any other city’s or region’s supply is an apples
and oranges comparison. Phoenix’s water supply is better than many rural Arizona
areas because Phoenix has multiple water sources - surface, groundwater and highly
treated wastewater (for crops, parks, etc.) We’re also able to capture water during wet
years and use it during the dry years. Other parts of Arizona made very different
decisions about their water supply years ago and rely more heavily on shallow
groundwater supplies or storage systems that are much more susceptible to dry cycles.
Phoenix’s foresight and use of surface, ground and reclaimed water allow for a
redundancy of supply that protects our customers during times of drought.

Phoenix is not in overdraft, Steve, unlike your rhetoric.

So MIKE, seeing is believing unless you are blind.

Spectator said...

Ho! My name ( Jon Arcuni ) just came up on a feed. The twerp Aaron thinks I was and am 4Crapkiller. Nope.

It would be nice if all you people came together and got a sewer for US. However, with all the idiocy, lack of funds, and hope the government will take care of the problem, I do not think there will ever be a sewer.

To Ann Calhoun: Apparently the government (local at that) can't give you a decision about removing a tree. What are they going to say to you with government health care and no money in Madicare when you need your spleen removed? You may be just too old to save and of no productive taxable value!

Ann save your money! NO, your money will be worth nothing shortly, buy GOLD!

alabamasue said...

"GO LISA, the Calvary is on the way"?? Are you threatening Lisa with a hill of dirt from Palestine, or perhaps it's a reference to crucifixion? I don't like her either, but would never threaten her with violence. Oh wait, maybe you meant 'cavalry' - a totally different word.

Aaron said...

Actually,

I do know Gordon Hensley. I have his resume, his background, his family records, his non-profits, his lawsuits and his campaign contributions. It's a good investment for $40. Doing a quick search on Google will reveal the cases that he was a part of when he was terminated as youth minister of the Newport Church of the Nazarene.

Contrary to what you may think, I have made eye contact with each and every board member when I spoke.

Also, I know Gordon's niece because she would run around my former workplace. He also had an account at the store.

Unfortunately for Arcuni, Lynette Tornatzky personally told me that 4CrapKiller was him at a BOS meeting early this year. It was not in an e-mail conversation we had as I previously mentioned -- unless she is mistaken, but she seemed pretty sure than Arcuni was that "little old lady from Atascadero."

On a related note, I understand there's a little game going on. I believe all the "Dreamer" anonymous know each other and it's part of this childish game to tag-team and pat each other on the back. I believe Lynette knows who "Mike" is, but she's being protective of his identity. She knows what he says is downright inappropriate, she never addresses it and often pretends he doesn't exist. It's childish.

Finally, I just wanted to say: leave Alon alone. I felt awful when I snapped at him in the past. It's not cool. Let him say what he has to say. I find his integrity to be more qualitative than people like Mike and alabamasue. Same goes for Shark. I like both Alon and Shark and would rather talk to them then have some 66-year-old, trash-talking anonymous who has given more rope to hang himself than David Carradine.

Mike said...

Sorry to be such a pest to Aaron, but he is continues to put out false information...

Just what lawsuit against the LOCSD did Gordon file when he was a youth minister in Oregon...??? Actually none... He did win his unemployment rights with the ACLU defending him... You should look what his job is in SLO County and then you might understand what an environmental advocate really is... The LO sewer is the least of the many projects he advocates for/against in the public sector.

Aaron would like to smear Gordon in some crazed character assassination tale, but the truth is that Aaron doesn't know what he's talking about...!!!!

Aaron said...

Like what false information?

You have yet to provide examples.

Aaron said...

On a related note, the ACLU has also defended the KKK and Neo-Nazis.

To educate the readers, Gordon Hensley is head of San Luis Obispo Coastkeepers.

BIO:

Gordon Hensley serves as Coastkeeper for the San Luis Obispo Coastkeeper, a program of Environment in the Public Interest (EPI) dedicated to enforcement of water quality, watershed, and coastal planning regulations in Northern Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, and Southern Monterey Counties. Mr. Hensley is a native central coast resident and a field biologist with extensive experience in permit compliance issues and environmental analysis. He is certified by the Ecological Society of America as an Ecologist, and served as Vice Chair of the Morro Bay National Estuary Program. Prior to San Luis Obispo Coastkeeper, Mr. Hensley served as an Environmental Analyst with the Environmental Defense Center where his advocacy efforts influenced many governmental policies and actions regarding environmental protection, natural resource management and land use regulations. Mr. Hensley holds a Master's degree in Biology and a Bachelor's degree in Ecology and Systematic Biology from California Polytechnic State University.

His track record, however, has been less than stellar. As head of the Coastkeeper, an environmental public interest advocacy group, he has filed 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporations that have had nothing to do with environmental protection such as Taxpayers Watch, which have filed lawsuits that have no public benefit to the environment or the preservation of the water quality. His second 501(c)(3), Water Health 2 Outreach, was publicity stunt for Maria Kelly's LOCSD campaign as it quickly disbanded after she was elected into office. The most they have ever done was hand out "special fortune cookies with water-wise tips," but they never educated the public regarding the issues of saltwater intrusion.

Let's tie this in with what's happening now. The California Coastal Commission is set to appeal the conditions set forth by the County for the Los Osos wastewater project. Friend of Coastkeeper and Mr. Hensley, Executive Director Peter M. Douglas will be overseeing the appeal and will likely recommend that the project go back to Tri-W.

Mike said...

...sure sounds like he's an professional and well recognized advocate...

Perhaps someone doesn't understand the education, experience and is dedicated to enforcement of water quality, watershed, and coastal planning...

..."less than stellar" track record... hmmmm...apparently he doesn't please the personal agenda of an uneducated critic...

Apparently he is the most powerful environmentalist in Los Osos and really does know what he's talking about...

Alon Perlman said...

While I consider Mr. Hensley’s submission To the CSD (CC’d to Fish and wildlife?) to not necessarily be “Good for the environment”. It is a professional and well written complaint written by someone, who knows environmental law.
And while I am not too happy either with “Monterrey Coastkeepers” other (non Los Osos) positions. And coined the phrase “Coast Gate-keepers”, those two groups do exhibit knowledge and understanding of the environmental regulations, which is not what I would say for some other “environmental” Groups. (leaving Andrew Christie, Jeff Pienack and Noah Smeckler as “above board” in my respect for those individuals and disagreeing with what they have to say only very rarely) and I would also consider Mr. Peter(?) Douglass one of the rare "Good Guys" on the Staff side, I hope it doesn't come back to TWWW and don't expect it to. If it does, I would consider it as much because of the "Bum-Rushing" as anything

Thank you blog crew, for your support, Below is a cover to a submission to the Planning commission. I submitted it to the EIR and it was included as a direct submission to the PC. And is present in the PC binder and electronically on the website for PC letters. I am including it as a sample of what I consider to be an original relevant submission. I hoped the PC would read all 18 pages but I highlighted about a third being respectful of their time.
The EIR and PC records contain a lot of what I call “Bum-rushing the process”. And this is verry relevant to the Topic at hand including portions of this string , those, that don’t end up in “I know you are, but what am I?”.
------------------------------------
To the attention of Planning Commissioners
Thank you for showing an interest in the critical details of this most important project
In your capacity of advising the Board.
The attached is a revised DEIR Entry with “Disposal” and items for 6/30 meeting
(in which I hope to address the commission)
Items of interest to the commission are highlighted in yellow within the document
Copied below is a sample comment
P 5.3-45.3.3 - Thresholds of Significance
“d. Substantially alter the existing drainage pattern of the site or area, including through the
alteration of the course of a stream or river, or substantially increase the rate or amount of
surface runoff in a manner which would result in flooding on- or off-site?
e. Create or contribute runoff water which would exceed the capacity of existing or planned
stormwater drainage systems or provide substantial additional sources of polluted runoff? “
Can the Hydrology and Water Quality Environmental Issues quoted above be maintained as “Less than Significant” given that the county is constructing a storm water system (Pallisades Signal Project) letting out at the midtown site almost directly downhill and within the subsurface flow patterns expected to have contribution from the Broaderson Leach field?
There is industry information that Rain acidity; Sulfur dioxide from emerging industrial nations will arrive due to global warming. Acid rain is not that bad for a leach field, it refreshes it by flushing out some of the deposits.(Gong, Personal Communication) If the returned effluent is applied during rains the normal or higher acidity is buffered and the effect is diminished

Aaron said...

Mike,

You still haven't told me what false information I've supposedly been providing. I would like an answer soon.

Shark Inlet said...

Ann has it half right.

Yes, the Ripley plan internalized the cost of septic replacement (which is a good thing because it allows for a more fair comparison and because, like insurance, it levels the playing field should STEP be adopted). However, Ripley's comparison of the costs of TriW versus his STEP proposal was biased in three ways. First, it used actual bids (which came in some 40% above estimated) for TriW but not for his plan. Second, he ignored inflation associated with delay. Third, it is likely that the RWQCB or CCC or County would require some changes in his proposed plan which would increase the cost.

In short, he stacked the deck against TriW.

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

Let's try this a different way.

When was the last time you believe that Phoenix was in overdraft?

Shark Inlet said...

Aaron,

No offense here, but you seem to be going with a "where there's smoke, there's fire" approach. Maybe reading about Wenatchee or McMartin would cure you of that problem.

In short, it is in poor taste and it shows an intellectual shortcoming to trot out old, unproven and certainly disputed charges.

I've suffered such a "pile on" myself from time to time from those who don't bother trying to do any research but have adoped the "throw a bunch of mud at the wall and see what sticks" approach.

I believe you owe Gordon an apology even if you strongly disagree with him and his decisions and even if you feel he has not acted honorably. In short, you haven't either.

Aaron said...

Excuse me for a second, but what do I need to apologize for? Does every comedian have to apologize for every joke they've made?

If there's one thing I will apologize for, it's for taking some of these anonymous blog comments seriously. I've made a mistake there. For example, when someone calls me a "little boy" and a "sweet asshole," I assume they're looking to break their vow of celibacy as a Catholic priest or they shouldn't be taken seriously.

If you take my one-line roasts seriously enough to demand an apology, then I suggest you remove your lips from the butts you've been kissing, go to a dictionary and look up the word sarcasm. Just for you, I'll be sure to work on my winking-face emotes ;-) and a legal disclaimer that declares I bear no ill will toward people that, well, haven't been very kind to the people of Los Osos.

I misreported the 200 ft. I meant to say at least a mile. My deepest, most sincerest apologies.

Will you ever apologize for being so right, your lordship?

Sewertoons said...

Aaron, you continually get your "facts" mixed up.

Water Health 2 Outreach has NOT disbanded, it participated in the SLO County Waterfest this year in June at Morro Bay and is in the middle of planning an event for next year. We are not scientists, so dispensing information on saltwater intrusion would be disingenuous. We promote water conservation. Aaron, you just make this stuff up!

TW is an unincorporated association. If you have his lawsuits as you claim, you should know that.

We would be cleaning our water now, and cleaned up - it would all be over our basin now and houses would be already retrofitted with water saving devices if TW had prevailed - so how is delaying a sewer from 2008 to 20?? a benefit to the environment? Or did you forget that there are many old 6 GPF toilets out there and that about a million gallons of dirty water a day is returning into the ground?

How is having a bankrupt CSD a benefit to the environment for that matter? Could more water conservation be going on if they had the money to hire a conservation officer like other towns have?

No. Arcuni is NOT that little old lady from Atascadero.

There is a snowball's chance in hell of the WWTP going back to Tr-W.

Stop trying to get people riled up over nothing and don't post until you actually have some facts. You are really doing yourself no favors by spewing stuff like this.

Aaron said...

Lynette,

The Water Health 2 Outreach's last event, according to wateroutreach.org was Saturday, September 27, 2008 at San Luis Obispo Creek Day. Update your web site.

There is no evidence of that group's participation online.

When I spoke to Richard LeGros, he stated that Taxpayers Watch was "a non-profit organization." True, I've also heard that it was an unincorporated association but I've also heard otherwise from members like Joyce Albright and Mimi Kalland. Pick one.

The TW lawsuits do not state that the purpose would be to "clean up water." The TW lawsuits target Measure B, Lisa Schicker, Julie Tacker, Chuck Cesena, Steve Senet and John Fouche -- and these lawsuits are relevant to the LOCSD and previous members. None of these people are causing "delays" for the sewer from 2008 to beyond because they are no longer in charge of overseeing the project. The County is. TW's lawsuits are strictly accountability suits with no direct benefit to the taxpayer or the environment. Even if the TW suits were to prevail, it would still be a loose "connect the dots" to say that more water in the basin and houses would be retrofitted. That claim has as much merit as making a campaign promise that isn't in writing.

If you're going to ask the question, "How is having a bankrupt CSD a benefit to the environment for that matter?" just ask Pandora Nash-Karner or Jerry Gregory. More than anything, they wanted a bankrupted CSD. That was their ideal situation. These two individuals are now working behind the scenes as "Celebrate Los Osos" to help clean up and beautify the environment.

Lynette, you personally told me 4CrapKiller was "that little old lady from Atascadero" and that 4CrapKiller was Arcuni at a BOS meeting. Granted, there weren't witnesses nearby to hear you rat him out and that this argument will ultimately become a "he said, she said" kind of debacle, I will say that you know in your heart who this person is and you're being deceitful by not saying who it is. If you're lying about this, then one may wonder what else you're lying about.

Lastly, this isn't nothing. Saying that it's nothing is just denying the problem -- and you have enough problems that will make Dr. Phil see a shrink.

Watershed Mark said...

Getting back on topic:

For about 40 percent of Los Osos residents and businesses, the price of the sewer makes the difference between staying or having to move out. No one in the U.S. pays $250 a month just to flush their toilet—it would happen only in Los Osos.



Last March, without explanation, the county eliminated a top-ranked engineering team guaranteeing a 20-percent savings over competitors for building the wastewater project. Instead, they selected the giant multinational firm Montgomery Watson Harza (MWH) as one of three short-listed firms for both major contracts.



The interview panel recommending MWH was comprised of county employees and consultants, selected by Public Works Director Paavo Ogren. These consultants receive regular no-bid contracts from Ogren and happen to be former business partners of MWH. Ogren placed himself and recently-fired Gail Wilcox on the appeals panel.

Watershed Mark said...

Los Osos has its share of broken promises; the county ignored sound planning practices for years, all the while collecting property taxes. Saltwater pollution, identified in the ’70s, poses a serious threat to our only water supply, but nothing has been done. Our roads are a mess; septic tank management is nonexistent; storm drainage, abysmal. We have the worst ratio of parks per capita in the county.

The financial burden rests squarely on the shoulders of those who can least afford it. While my friends in SLO County, when asked, can’t recall what they pay for wastewater (because it’s so low), Los Osos’s $250-plus per month will suck upwards of $10 million per year out of the local economy. Businesses will go belly-up and rentals, comprising 30 percent of the properties, will become unaffordable and vacant. Young families, elderly residents, and the disabled are at more risk than the rest: Wastewater costs here would far exceed what the country’s median-income household could possibly afford to pay.

Watershed Mark said...

Why wasn't vacuum studied Steve?

Aaron said...

On this blog, we've seen the following argument circulate: the County didn't "ignore" sound planning practices. They had to deal with protests, lawsuits and complaints which caused delays. While that may be true, that's not looking at the bigger picture. If you look even further back in history when the County permitted septics in the 1970s in what would later become the Prohibition Zone, that put homeowners at a disadvantage and the only way to be heard was to complain. There lies the root of the problem.

The blunt of the blame has been focused on the UltraOpposition, "obstructionists" and now Maria Kelly calls them "blockers," who -- only recently in time -- have been held accountable for their contribution to the overall delay of the wastewater project. To put so much blame on these people, to attribute a label ambiguously to this supposed group of people is a logical misstep that can't be swept under the rug.

$250/month is an expensive utility bill. There is no financial assistance. Mr. Diodati has stated that receiving stimulus funds -- to supposedly knock down the monthly cost to $91 according to WRAC estimates -- is now at a "standstill," and he was unsure of the progress especially when Congress was hesitant in passing the budget that includes the stimulus funds. That "delay" is completely out of the UltraOpposition's zone of accountability.

Nobody opposing the "UltraOpposition" has addressed the issue of environmental justice. Lynette "I Don't Care if People Move Since It Happens All the Time" Tornatzky has stated that she stands fully behind the County assessment (presumably including the Final EIR "Environmental Justice" appendix, which states that the sewer wouldn't displace residents).

People are going to have a hard time looking at a middle-class PZ homeowner in the face and say, "You won't have to move if you have to pay $250/month," and Paavo said the cost could go even higher. $165 million is an extremely conservative estimate.

Watershed Mark said...

For about 40 percent of Los Osos residents and businesses, the price of the sewer makes the difference between staying or having to move out. No one in the U.S. pays $250 a month just to flush their toilet—it would happen only in Los Osos.



Last March, without explanation, the county eliminated a top-ranked engineering team guaranteeing a 20-percent savings over competitors for building the wastewater project. Instead, they selected the giant multinational firm Montgomery Watson Harza (MWH) as one of three short-listed firms for both major contracts.



The interview panel recommending MWH was comprised of county employees and consultants, selected by Public Works Director Paavo Ogren. These consultants receive regular no-bid contracts from Ogren and happen to be former business partners of MWH. Ogren placed himself and recently-fired Gail Wilcox on the appeals panel.

Watershed Mark said...

Ogren placed himself and recently-fired Gail Wilcox on the appeals panel.

“Getting rid of Paavo would unravel the entire process”

Sewertoons said...

Aaron,

WH2O was in existence BEFORE Maria decided to be a candidate, you are completely incorrect in asserting that it was a publicity stunt. You are right, I do need to update the website. Maybe that should be a lesson to you, that websites don't always reflect what is going on. You can slam me for not updating - then turn right around and slam yourself for not checking your facts - I mean for not FINDING some.

I don't think you understood what I said, but never mind. Why does every lawsuit from Gordon need to protect the environment? Trying to retrieve money squandered by 5 irresponsible directors ought to concern you - you who professes to care about bankrupting people. Who do you think is going to pay for the CSD's bankruptcy anyway? You and me Aaron, and all the citizens of Los Osos.

Where do you get the crazy idea that Pandora and Jerry Gregory wanted to bankrupt the CSD? That is just plain nuts! Stopping the last project bankrupted the CSD - they were in favor of the last project!

Nobody is saying that the County is blameless - why do you refuse to "get" that? But they are trying to fix things now and have put out a lot of time and effort to do so- they are not attempting to block a project like some members of this community.

Who says environmental justice shouldn't apply to the environment? You don't seem to "get" that had TW prevailed we would be conserving water and cleaning it RIGHT NOW, not YEARS from now. Was it the perfect project? No. Is this next one the perfect project? No. So what. Do we destroy the environment while waiting for the perfect project that costs nothing? This sewer was deemed too expensive when it was $39/mo. Where is the cut-off for that type of thinking? Has stopping the last project made this next one cheaper? When do you think it should end - when we are all drinking pee-flavored coffee?

Sewertoons said...

http://www.capecodchronicle.com/editorial/opinion_102909.htm

Churadogs said...

Toonces sez:"Trying to retrieve money squandered by 5 irresponsible directors ought to concern you - you who professes to care about bankrupting people."

Actually, if TPW actually cared about accountability and wasted money, they should have sued the pre-recalled Board for voting to file that suit blocking Measure B. THAT recklessly put the CSD in jeopardy of being slammed with damages far worse than what the post-recall Board settled for -- THAT reckless lawsuit was really, really a disaster. I'm surprised TPW which supposedly cares about taxpayers (right?) didn't sue Stan, Richard & Gordon personally. Of course, maybe the concern for taxpayers was selective only?


Toonces asks:"Where do you get the crazy idea that Pandora and Jerry Gregory wanted to bankrupt the CSD? "

Uh, I think he got that idea from the email Pandora sent to Roger Briggs, RWQCB, the evening (?) or early the next morning after the Recall Election saying she wanted the CSD "fined out of existence" and Roger emailed back that the paperwork was rolling and ready to go.

Mike said...

...are you still fighting for that failed Measure B...??? Just what "damages" has the community suffered from the judge ruling 3 times that Measure B was invalid....???

...and on the other TPW lawsuit (there were only 2 lawsuits and they were not paid for by the Lisa led CSD) ...you are aware that the TaxPayers Watch suit against the 5 individuals has been working slowly through an insurance "settlement" in which some $1.4M is to be returned to the District... of course, if that final attempt for a "settlement" falls apart, there will be a trial of the 5 individuals... Maybe the CSD will pay for the TaxPayers Watch attorneys just like they paid the PZLDF lawyer....????

Sewertoons said...

So Ann - an e-mail fired off in anger that had absolutely no power to affect anything - weighs more heavily than the amazing amount of damage by the Lisa board? Gee, I'm sure Pandora's email really had a lot to do with Roger Brigg's decision - couldn't be that maybe he was just a little p!ssed off at a group that promised to stop the project that he had been haranguing the old board to complete?

Are we and the aquifers better off now after the recall? Ongoing pollution, liens on our homes, a bankruptcy to pay back, no control of the project?

Aaron said...

Lynette,

I've been designing and managing web sites for a lot longer than you have. That's where I can proudly say that I'm an expert at. Dynamic content is key.

Once again, I will repeat: there is no evidence on the Internet whatsoever that confirms WH2O's recent appearances so the burden is on you to update your content and not criticize me for something that's ultimately your responsibility for maintaining.

Because you don't like repetition and you don't seem to get the message the first time, I'll say this one more time. Get your act together, update your web site and spend less time being assertive in what happened and what didn't happen when there's no actual proof that what you say happened happened.

Now, I've noticed that a lot of things were done out of anger. The "Save the Dream" TV ads were spiteful in tone, portraying everyone as Joey Racano sitting up in a tree. The e-mails were done out of anger, the "honey huts" publicity stunt was done out of anger, the Taxpayers Watch lawsuits were done out of anger, the dissolution petition drive for the LOCSD was done out of anger. Well, a lot of things you guys have done has been out of anger. That says a lot about the division in this town -- but wait, forget all that anger. Let's plant trees and pretend that we care about each other!

Roger Briggs has stated on the record that he felt the "obligation to act" after receiving e-mails from the community prior to the recall. Pandora and Jerry played a part in that obligation to act.

Mike said...

...and stopping a legal sewer without considering the consequences was not done in "anger"...???

Gail, Lisa, Julie, Chucky and Kieth have shown how well they have learned from their hero Al... Yup... some real cool heads on "your" side...

Aaron said...

Two wrongs don't make it right.

Mike said...

...but they have made the sewer VERY expensive...

Let's hope TPW prevails and at least some of the misappropriated funds are returned... It is nice to see some accountability being pursued...

Watershed Mark said...

"Trying to retrieve money squandered by 5 irresponsible directors ought to concern"

$7MM for a predetermined result that did not include a defensible review of alternatives comes to mind...

Why was vacuum not studied?
We just can't believe you never received an answer....!!!!

Thanks MIKE!

Watershed Mark said...

It is nice to see some accountability being pursued...

"You ain't seen nothin' yet"

Watershed Mark said...

That said, the plan is trumpeted by town officials as being adaptive. Residents need to hold officials to that, and if less expensive --- and more importantly, more effective --- methods of nitrogen removal gain approval, they must be considered.

If alternative systems come about that fit the bill, no doubt pressure from the public will convince officials to “adapt” the plan. Until then, the current program is what the town needs to restore its coastal waters.

Too bad Los Osos/Baywood Park has no such support from the editorial board from the newspaper of record.

I didn’t see the words gravity/bell and spigot in this piece.
Also please consider the mean income difference between the Cape to Los Osos/Baywood Park.

The former is a vacation destination and the latter is not.

Aaron said...

"THEY" didn't make the sewer expensive. Incompetence and negligence on the County level did. Aside from Gail, Keith and Al, the rest were voted in by a fair, democratic majority vote.

And how will these TPW damages be returned? Is TW going to write out a check to the CSD? Are they going to PZ residents a check? These questions have not been answered.

Mike said...

...your "questions" will be answered as the settlement or trial is concluded...

...as to your "opinion" that the County caused the sewer to be expensive, you might start with asking what would the very legal sewer be costing right now had it not been stopped by that "fair, democratic majority vote"...

Alon Perlman said...

Oh as for the current discussion here, I just need to say "Yada Yada Yada".

As a brand new newcomer to town, I have to say that the article really caught my attention. Where do I sign up? We should vote the scoundrels out and put experienced caring people in their place.

Word verification; ullosse
These Troll ready comments supplied for your convenience

beeooch said...

Lynette (I'm so right about EVERYTHING), you are completely wrong with your statement to Aaron when you said that, "YOU and Aaron and all the citizens of Los Osos will be paying for the CSD's bankruptcy".....This is NOT TRUE, only the homeowners in the P.Z. of Los Osos will be paying. Therefore, ANY settlement money needs to come back to the homeowners in the PZ....

Mike said...

beeooch... or getreal or old duffo or whatever name game you're playing these days... The Bankruptcy is a District wide event and it would appear every household in the District would be assessed a portion of the cost...

...but maybe we don't have to worry about the Bankruptcy... the CSD has not come up with a Plan to resolve how to come out of it... This is not like a Personal Bankruptcy, there is no walking away and not repaying... There is the possibility that the Judge will get tired of all the stalling and toss the whole thing out... That would allow the creditors to then sue the District...and that's everyone in the District... Not sure where you came up with only the PZ represented properties, but that is not correct... The CSD5 individuals are not out of their personal financial pit... and we're not out of damages they caused by their hasty decision to stop a very legal construction project in the manner they chose to do... They should have sued BW&S while they were still in office... now we all have to live with their poor decisions...

Hopefully the TPW suit will return a little of the misspend funds to the District, but it's a long way from the overall financial damage done...

Watershed Mark said...

”Alternative” Budget Options.

You'd think that the SLOCO BOS could find a few bucks to have a peek at vacuum collection.

Watershed Mark said...

”peek”

Aaron said...

I'm tired of the "Wait and see!" answer when it comes to how the PZ residents would benefit from the TW lawsuit. I have this mental image of a used cars salesman saying to me after I buy an unattractive car, "Trust me. Once you drive this baby off the lot, you're gonna love it."

Who is going to pay the TW legal representation (Shute, Mihaly & Weinberger LLP)? PZ homeowners? The insurance company that covers the LOCSD? I would like an answer to that question ASAP and I think the people should know of the benefits. From what I'm seeing, there isn't any.

Show us the benefit in writing or don't brag about it. Simple as that.

Mike said...

...my, my, you and your temper don't sound like you understand legal process... You have no idea how long this has been delayed, stalled and strung out by your friends; the CSD5...

....and Aaron, since YOU are just learning of the settlement negotiations and are not knowledgeable of the proceedings, YOU are in no position to demand anything "ASAP"..... Why aren't you also demanding an immediate resolution to the Bankruptcy...????

...so just cool your jets... maybe you should have realized how extensive the mismangement was joined TW to help bring about some accountability of the post-recall CSD....They were totally out of control and you just sat there, happy that the legal sewer was stopped...

The wheels of justice grind slowly, all you and I can do is sit by and wait at this stage of the game... The CSD5 dragged this out this far, but the end is coming...!!!!

Aaron said...

There's no temper here. We want answers.

You've been trolling Ann's site demanding for details of the PZLDF suit but you never been able to provide any details of how you plan to distribute damages awarded to you from settlement or judgment.

Watershed Mark said...

-I have this mental image of a used cars salesman saying to me after I buy an unattractive car, "Trust me. Once you drive this baby off the lot, you're gonna love it."



(B) the law does not limit attorneys’ fees or impose caps on damages.

Nice to see the lawyers will be well cared for…

Sewertoons said...

Aaron, get a clue! There are (surprise, surprise) OTHER sources of information BEYOND the internet! The burden is not on me and that website to do your homework for you before you mouth off. You could have asked a member of the WH2O group, you could have contacted Kim at SLO Partners for Water Quality. If you want to be a reporter and talk facts, you need to do something called "fact checking."

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

Aaron says to Mike,
"…you never been able to provide any details of how you plan to distribute damages awarded to you from settlement or judgment."

Uh, Aaron, did you ASK?

Mike said...

...there's a bit of a difference in the 2 issues... and we, as individuals, will have no benefit coming, whereas the 14 or 15 good PZLDF'ers have already received financial benefit from the Chuck & Lisa led CSD... about $90,000 worth...!!! and that lawsuit fell on it's face...

The TW suit should return a bit over $1,000,000 to the District... You should be pleased that TW had the strength to follow this through...

Why aren't you a bit peeved that the CSD paid the legal fees for a small group of disgruntled property owners...???? Shouldn't the CSD also have paid the TW legal fees...???? Or more to the point, why didn't those individuals pay for their own failed lawsuit...????

Those who have contributed to TW have paid their legal fees and even paid the LAFCo fees...

Alon Perlman said...

Hmmm. I am not up to date about the TW Lawsuits. Because? Because there are no deep pockets or an ability to change what happened. Or, limit a responsible agency's actions. So the sewer will cost what it costs along the lines of what has been already been set in Place.
Anyone can declare themselves vindicated, declare our group the winner.
"Hey there, what's that sound...
Most of them carrying signs that say Hooray for our side."

Who is the clear loser?
The Aquifer and anyone depending on it.

I consider Lisa's Submission to be too flawed to have any significance, under any circumstances. (And I did write contracts as part of a job(s))
I consider that my words could be circulated by people who don't like what I say, to people who have not read any of the 1399 pages.
None of that is going to change the fact that an eminently dismissible complaint was submitted, taken, and was, after review, dismissed. And discussed and discussed and reacted to and the reaction was reacted to and discussed. As would happen anytime, a legally tenuous complaint is overhyped. Who wins? Who gets to stir the pot? Who gets to control people when they feel victimized? Oh, Hi Gail, the sentence you wanted is at the top of this paragraph.

No amount of hope will float a lead dead duck decoy. What a sad waste of everybody’s time. (including mine)

In the media, including on this Blog, more words were written about this “Story” than on the Planning commissions Conditions. Conditions that will affect every man, woman, child, and the dog that marks the invisible fence between the PZ and the rest of the world.

As expected there are responses in the "New” “New Times”. The shredder has moved on to browner pastures.
http://www.newtimesslo.com/letters-to-the-editor/ October 29, ’09.
The first three are predictable, I expected more from at least one individual.
Granted a significant affect of “Divisiveness” is recognized. The reaction is directed at many (large enough target includes myself). There’s more attention to the general history. In other words; We are back to square one, reactions to reactions to reactions to reactions. Non-stories about non-stories. Everyone regresses to their earlier positions. Print media electronic, same diff.

Do read this other one for what it is. A magical affirmation of your neighbors’ spirit- “Visions portend solutions in Los Osos -Sylvia Howell Kneller - Los Osos”

Alon Perlman said...

Sorry Mike- The 45 could have been “any” of us (Actually not renters like Al Barrow or Myself)
There is a gentleman D.S. (Tri W Supporter)who also lives on 4th street. He did not choose a CDO.
(The random statisics of CDO distribution are a little bizzare)

Please note; I don’t think you should argue against “The principle of the CSD accepting that the 45 individuals were customers of the district who had an external regulatory action on them that pertained to all others (customers and voters) and that action and it’s consequences, was in the purview of the district’s provision of services.

Here, may I offer this?
How did the PZLDF, Run by Gail, representing not all CDO recipients, enter a contract, via legal representation, with the CSD. (The peoples CSD, Yours and mine,and not answerable primarily to people who live outside the PZ with the CSD relation of being served only by Cal Fire).

Alon Perlman said...

2 comments ago
Letters to the Editor Oct,29,'09 Issue

Point I'm making ? the letters, rather than focus on the skills of the complaint writer and validity of actual complaint are attacking the people around her. Of course there has been a morphing to the Affordability issue. (And I happen to hold the belief that a good number of people including people who grew up here will have to leave, as project costs will approach 250 mo.). Thus the devisiveness is perpetuated, since those people will react to the reaction and the (unread, unevaluated) complaint will appear to them more justified. At issue is- In what way did a 1399 page submission and all the ink since help any low income person? or on a month of sundays -How could it possibly?


Cumon people, I was a roman emperor once, this is Booring- Quack and fiddle-Divide and conquer


Word verification; inatify
What happens when you set out to atify something and fail.
OOh, and the second one;horanter

Sewertoons said...

http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2009/10/29/update_news/doc4aea36c7ed983036236719.txt

Looks like wsm couldn't even sell vacuum on his home turf… guess that is why he has tried so hard here.

Aaron said...

Here is a response to some of the letters by Los Osos residents in the New Times.

Watershed Mark said...

Lake Havasu City received a final $87.7 million loan from the water quality authority today for the sewer project.

The Water Infrastructure Finance Authority of Arizona announced that it will close a $87.7 million loan, with the city for the completion of the expansion of their wastewater collection system. The projects are located in the Cisco, Palm Tree, Tarpon, Chemehuevi, Mockingbird and the Trotwood areas and will add approximately 7,450 new connections to the sewer system and include 79 miles of gravity sewer main, 1,400 manholes, as well as 100 miles of sewer service line, according to a release.

Mayor Mark Nexsen said he was pleased the loan came in at around a 3 percent rate.

“We got it at a really good interest rate,” he said. “The good news is that it is our final (loan). It brings our debt to around $370 million, which is far below the $463 million the citizens authorized us to borrow in 2001.”

Nexsen credited all parties involved in securing the loans for the estimated $90 million less than originally expected.

“It’s primarily due to outstanding cost management from everyone,” he said. “I think it was a team effort.”

WIFA Board Chairman and Arizona Department of Environmental Quality Director Ben Grumbles said he was happy with the loan as well.

“This loan provides the funding to finish this important clean water project,” Grumbles said, according to the release. “We’re pleased to make this loan, making the most of Arizona’s precious water resources and protecting public health and safety.”

FYI-
The homeowner's out of pocket decommission and connection fee cost is $2,000.00 complete.

Why is Paavo's project so much smaller yet costs so much more than the LHC project?

As long as LHC is being held up as an example: Does anybody think that if Paavo's project is accepted by SLOCO BOS that it will cost less than what his $7MM and counting incomplete study process yielded.

BTW, I wom't benifit finacially by the use of any collection system.
I am into treatment technology only and interested in seeing cost effective efficient sealed collection technology employed, because it is the correct thing to do.

Watershed Mark said...

LOSTDEP- 40 miles 400 manholes and no help on the on lot decom and hook up...$90,000,000.00+

Good work PAAVO!

Watershed Mark said...

BTW, I won't benefit financially by the use of any collection system. Pesky typos.

I am going to enjoy watching Paavo's process play out...

Churadogs said...

Mike sez:"...are you still fighting for that failed Measure B...??? Just what "damages" has the community suffered from the judge ruling 3 times that Measure B was invalid....???"

You're confusing the lawsuit to rule on the validity/invalidity of Measure B with the horribly, horribly unwise lawsuit to BLOCK the voting on Measure B, something the courts have a clear, clear history of viewing with fury and awarding triple damages against the entity that sought to STOP/BLOCK an election, which was the case the post-recall CSD settled to avoid those court-set triple damages and which financally really hammered the CSD. THAT lawsuit was a disaster and was filed by the pre-recall directors. Talk about waste of public funds. Yikes!

Toonces asked:" Where do you get the crazy idea that Pandora and Jerry Gregory wanted to bankrupt the CSD? " And I answered, correctly,"Uh, I think he got that idea from the email Pandora sent to Roger Briggs, RWQCB, the evening (?) or early the next morning after the Recall Election saying she wanted the CSD "fined out of existence" and Roger emailed back that the paperwork was rolling and ready to go."

So, I got the "crazy idea" directly from Pandora's email. Then Toonces shifts that to the issue of whether or not Pandora's email actually caused anybody to do anything. That wasn't the question. The question was, where did I get that "crazy idea." Answer, directly from Pandora's email to Roger Briggs.

Sewertoons said...

Ann, the paperwork was rolling and ready to go because Briggs already knew that if the recall happened, the Water Board would have to prove they meant business and would need to take swift action! Hadn't the Water Board been dogging every step of the Old Board's progress as they struggled against lawsuits against the project (all of which were lost)? The were there every step of the way, pushing, pushing, pushing! To think an e-mail Pandora wrote caused Briggs to act is just plain absurd!

Aaron said...

Lynette,

You're wrong again.

The paperwork was not rolling. At least, that's according to Jerry Gregory in 2005. On Sep. 29 of the same year, he writes to Briggs, "The threat of fines has been over our heads since 1983. This Community only looks at it has a threat. They do not think the RWQCB will fine us. They think they can smooth talk you in not going through with the fine. Please show them that they are wrong and that you mean business. We have been polluting the ground water way to long! Please notify the NEW CSD Board that you mean business and please put this issue infront of your Board in November."

In other words, Gregory felt that PZ residents weren't taking the RWQCB's threats of fines seriously so he requested the board and Briggs to follow through with enforcement. Before, it was a threat. After he, Pandora and many others demanded enforcement action, there was enforcement. There were NOVs, CDOs and people were unlawfully accused of polluting the groundwater without proof of any testing of their septic tanks.

There was no, "If the Recall happened, enforcements would happen" clause in any documents prior to the recall. If there was, there wouldn't be such a large call to action over lack of actual enforcement.

The RWQCB intensified the threats as they hammered the new board with their Time Schedule Order.

One question I've heard from people was, "Why are you bringing up e-mails from 2005?" The answer is simple. People on here have been pointing the finger at the former post-recall LOCSD board members for bankrupting the CSD when in reality, that was part of the "Dreamer" plan many years back. The wheels were set in motion to lead the district into failure -- all thanks to Stan Gustafson, Gordon Hensley and Richard LeGros for pursuing an illegal SRF loan and then some.

Sewertoons said...

It really doesn't matter what you think Jerry's letter meant or that Jerry was not in the loop as to what Briggs intended to do, so wrote to him!

The Old Board knew what was up, so pushed on to get a project done. The fact that Lisa and Julie didn't "get" that the water Board meant business just is one more indicator that they had no clue about the reality of the horrible and costly situation they pushed us into. And as their damage unfolded, they learned nothing and made no course corrections!

The fact is, Briggs is not going to have reams of paperwork ready to roll out the minute Pandora or Jerry E-mails him! He KNEW what the Lisa bunch was up to and what they were going to do, so was prepared to act. Don't be so NAIVE to think that the Water Board wouldn't anticipate or notice the stopping of the project without those two e-mails!

Show me where it says the Water Board has to put in that clause you mention! (And on what planet is two e-mails a "large call to action?")

The Old Board was hammered as well - Bruce Buel testified to that at a December 2005 Water Board hearing, and he was the GM. The NOV's and CDO's came later anyway - January 27, 2006 on the CDO's.

Show me what court of law has stated that the SRF loan was illegal. There was no conspiracy to lead the District into failure - that was an outcome of the reckless actions of Lisa and Julie and company.

Sewertoons said...

This just popped in on Aaron's month-old story, "New Times’ Shredder Is Full of Crap."

klemz
October 28, 2009 (2 days ago) at 4:18 pm

I enjoyed reading this, and having never heard of the Rock, I followed the link back to your website. While I laud your efforts at editorial photo shopping, nothing I’m seeing here is really contradicting the opinion I came to in 2006 that the vast majority of Los Ososites are completely insane.

Aaron said...

Lynette,

Here's what I meant by a large call to action. It wasn't just two e-mails. Pandora and Jerry were just two e-mails on the tip of the iceburg.

The 218 was required for the 2005 project, but Buel said, "Nope, not applicable." Why was the 218 assessment required in 2001 but not in 2005?

Sewertoons said...

Thank you for sending that document. It is an editable MS Word document, so I'll reserve comment as to authenticity, but it is quite believable. I haven't gotten through t all yet and can't tonight, but I did find this gem in it: Roger Briggs writes;

"I've said many times - directly to the district at their board meeting and in writing - we will take enforcement action if the CSD delays. We are now proceeding as we said we would - we are preparing an enforcement action."

I wonder what Lisa and Julie didn't "get" about those words? Once the CSD was formed, even if the first project was a no-go, the Board did continue with their plans to build - they never STOPPED anything from moving along.

As to the 218, the first one was to raise the money to sell bonds to pay for land, permits, and to pay to the design of the plant. When the project was built, at that time, it was allowable to pay the rest back with the rates and charges - no liens on homes. Thanks to this default - the first ever in the history of SRF loans, we must now pay for this up front with this legal encumbrance to our property to secure that we won't bolt a second time.

Another interesting note - 40% of voters didn't vote at all. 30% said no and 31% said yes. I know people who are kicking themselves now for buying the lie.

Aaron said...

... and Briggs says that after he receives all that correspondence. Before, it was just threats of enforcement.

By the way, I've done a public records request and got the same e-mails. If I uploaded a PDF, you'd probably argue that it's doctored. Give me a break.

I know we're nitpicking here, but here are some interesting tidbits of information.

According to Time Schedule Order No. 00-131, pursuant to Section 13308 of the Water Code, the RWQCB set the deadline -- for the completion of the Los Osos wastewater project -- for August 30, 2004. Prior to the recall, the LOCSD failed to implement its community wastewater plan, but only after the recall did actual enforcement take place.

True, the board had it in their jurisdiction to modify deadlines if they argue that the delays are out of the control of the district and the RWQCB granted the old board time, but when the recall happened, there were delays that were out of the control of the CSD: as a vote of confidence to move the sewer out of town, three board members were recalled and Measure B passed. By a slim majority of voters, social infeasibility of the previous project was clearly demonstrated -- and that qualified as a delay because the election results were out of the control of the CSD, but the RWQCB proceeded with the ACL (R3-2005-0137).

The political pressure from the "Dreamers" must have made Briggs feisty enough to say in the same e-mail that you quoted, Lynette, "It's too bad your community is doing this to itself." While what he said wasn't exactly giving a nod to the people who wanted the district fined out of existence, it does show that Briggs was exasperated and that he wanted to pursue enforcement as soon as possible in light of the recall election.

I know people who are kicking themselves for buying into a place where they will eventually have to leave.

Sewertoons said...

Aaron, I don't think that they were doctored, just making an observation. Did you leave anything out would be my only question in putting it into Word - something that doesn't support your theories? I only ask because the date on it was May 13, 2006 which is when you created it, not I suppose anyway, when the original pdf was created.

We all bought at a deep discount. Cayucos and Morro Bay were just WAY more expensive when we were looking to buy. If Los Osos had been THAT expensive (read - already had a sewer) we would not have bought here.

Hadn't Briggs had any experience dealing with Lisa and Julie before? Maybe he knew what was coming down the pike and got feisty because disaster was almost a foregone conclusion.

You say,
"…social infeasibility of the previous project was clearly demonstrated" --"

I disagree. Ask yourself this - would that 20 vote margin have held if the campaign literature had read - "Out of town, at a much greater cost?" Dave D. disagrees with you when you say Lisa didn't say it would be $100. She did endorse the men and was OK with the fiction $100/out-of-town. She didn't tell the truth if she knew something different, did she? But then, she had no project, so really, how could she know?

The election results meant the entire project would be scrapped (Lisa and Julie meant STEP/STEG and ponds out of town) - and 6 years of progress would have been lost if Lisa and Julie got their way - goodbye plans, permits and land. (At least the County has been able to salvage some of it for us.) So put yourself in Brigg's shoes. He was getting ready to run barefoot, almost free of the pain-in-the-bunion Los Osos, when someone just pinned his feet down with large, concrete blocks.

Churadogs said...

You're forgetting the famous Meeting that Wasn't a Meeting with Polhemus, Lisa, Robertson, etc. wherein Polhemus found out that the CSD DID indeed have a plan, a workable plan.

What we will never know is had the Dreamers not pushed so relentlessly for the destruction of the CSD (the emails, pushing for the "fine the CSD out of existence," Shirley Biancha writing her secred Oct. letter hinting that she would help take the project away from the duly elected CSD, the misguided lawsuit to block the election that started the financial destruciton of the CSD, Gordon using LOCAC to dissolve the CSD, a truck load of rage and pure spite, etc.) but instead had emailed everyone from Roger to the SWB urging everyone to take a deep breath, stay sane, and then work to get everyone on board for the Oct. compromise, amend and move the project forward by all means necessary, keep the contractors working, at least as for laying the majority of the pipe, put the plant out of town, etc (exactly the project we now have) would we be 2-3 years AHEAD of where we are now?

So the question remains for everybody: Just what was accomplished with all this spiteful raging insanity?

Mike said...

What was accomplished...???? ...why absolutely everything in the post-recall Plan...!!!

The legally permitted sewer was stopped dead and that was exactly the "Plan"...

Today the magic sand continues to filter all the human waste leaching from the septic tanks...and no one cares...!!!! But there is no sewer...exactly what the "majority" of Los Osos wants...!!!!!

M said...

Easy Mike. It's only 7:41 Saturday morning. Five !!!!!"s?
Sincerely, M

Not2010Yet said...

The emails and thoughts of Gordon et al and the truck load of rage" were not enough to ruin Tri-W. Only the actual destructive vote of the five directors in power did the damage. Come on, get a grip and stop blaming the lady in the wheelchair, the destruction was the whole cloth disaster of the MTS people and disgraced and proven-disastrous Chuckie types.

AMEND the plan? Come on, you don't just "amend" tens of millions in project that took years of resolving lawsuits and years of engineering and struggle to bring about, even if it had a pimple or two on it's butt. No project is perfect or pleases everyone, but THAT ONE was our answer. Capps and her liberal ilk were very likely to get multi-year funding for something that was a reality. Chura you owe your guests better than a rehash claiming that The Gorgon and the lady in the wheelchair were at fault in any way for this DISASTER.

Aaron said...

Lynette wrote, "Dave D. disagrees with you when you say Lisa didn't say it would be $100."

Uh...

I wrote, "The $100/month Measure B claim was not created by Mrs. Schicker. It was created solely by a few supporters of the 2005 Recall."

That $100/month angle was started by Gail McPherson and Al Barrow, not Schicker. Gail stated at one of her 2005 wastewater workshops at the SBCC, "I'm here to to show that there is technology that is affordable for Los Osos. There are many kinds to choose from -- and we can get the system down to $100 a month if we were to pursue alternatives."

Schicker supported Measure B in terms of what it was capable of, not what the end-results could be.

As I wrote to Duggan, "There’s a difference between supporting Measure B and claiming that there will be a $100/month project if Measure B passed."

You can disagree with my assessment, Lynette, but that's reality. Shoulda, coulda, woulda and "What if's" don't apply.

Mike said...

...bottom line... the sewer is coming... design and construction will be managed by the County... the community will pay much higher hookup and monthly fees than 4 years ago...

None of the posts on this blog have or will influence the location, design or cost...!!!!!!

There are as many active pro-Tri-W folks as there are pro-Move-The-Sewer folks...

Aaron said...

There are as many active pro-Tri-W folks as there are pro-Move-The-Sewer folks...

Really?

In the community survey, only 15% of survey respondents selected Tri-W as their first or second choice. 83-85% of respondents supported either Out of Town or Edge of Town (pg. 23) -- and if the 33% returns are a determinant of how the community feels, then you're definitely in the wrong.

Mike said...

Sorry to upset your thinking but no matter what YOU think, the sewer is coming to Los Osos... and "if" you owned any property, you'll get to help pay for it...AND the Bankruptcy....!!!!!!!

You can thank the MTS folks for the division of the community AND the high costs...!!!!

Watershed Mark said...

Trick or Treat
Case No CV 090616
Causes of Action
1. Mitigations of impacts are vague and incomplete as stated by California Coastal Commissioners Wan and Stone in their appeal of the LOWWP project (Exhibit). .
2. STEP/STEG was removed prematurely and it was the least costly by over $100 million dollars and least environmental damaging and most affordable to low and moderate income residents. Many residents will lose their housing. Unnecessarily. Please order STEP/STEG be restored to the Design/Build process as stated in the 218 assessment engineers report.
3. Gravity collection sewer will leak raw sewage from 20,000 plus joints that will contaminate the underlying drinking water aquifer with untreated raw sewage up to 1/3 of the flows or up to 70 million gallons a year. The stated purpose for the project is to comply with the RWQCB3 no discharge order and to protect the underlying aquifer. This project does neither. Only a 100% sealed system should be allowed. Please so order.
4. The gravity sewer requires an engineered slope for scouring speed to move solids to the treatment plant. Conservation and gray water systems will reduce the flows below scouring speed capacity requiring extra special maintenance routines and costs. Ground lurching during an earthquake will cause sagging, breakage and loosening of joint. The damage cannot be repaired with “Soft Fixes” that the FEIR mitigates it with. Northridge quake took 12 years to repair and over a billion dollars. ($1,000,000,000.00). There is no money or staging area to dig up and replace/repair damaged gravity pipes. The collection zone is a mapped liquefaction zone. These are fatal flaws yet not addressed in the mitigation of this sewer project. Please so order SLO County correct these flaws and order a proper mitigation plan be designed and funded.

5. False, incomplete, outdated and misleading information has skewed the project in favor of the more environmentally impactive and costly gravity collection system. The CEQA FEIR certification is premature. An SEIR is needed to correct these and other errors. Please so order.

Watershed Mark said...

PRAYERS FOR JUDGMENT

WHEREFORE, Plaintiff Al Barrow prays judgment against Defendant, County of San Luis Obispo and defendants DOES I through X and each of them, as follows:

1. For a declaration that will stay the SLO’ submission of the LOWWP FEIR to the California Coastal Commission and the Office of Planning and Research until declaratory relief is fully resolved by the Court and until the California Coastal Commission reviews the 22 appeals of the project and makes a substantial issues determination and a De Novo hearing on the substantial issues. We are within the 30 day time allowed to seek court relief and challenge to the FEIR CEQA documents..
2. Require the SLO County to perform a Subsequent EIR for review of changes made to the project after the EIR study was done.

3. That the STEP/STEG collection be restored to the Design/Build process and the competitive bidding to give us the most affordable and environmentally protective project. Please order.STEP/STEG be restored to the Design/Build process as stated in the 218 assessment engineers report.
4. A 100% sealed system be a project requirement in order to protect the sole Los Osos drinking water aquifer from untreated sewage contamination by exfiltration/leakage of gravity collection pipe joints that is virtually assured in the liquefaction/earthquake.zone they are planned for.
5. Require appeals to the BOS be considered separately and a written response CEQA requirement be enforced. SLO County failed to give me proper hearings on both my appeals for this project. That is a violation of due process. Instead they lumped all the appellants into one hearing response that did not specifically address the concerns I raised in writing. Please so order a proper hearing of our appeals.
6. That an economic impact study be ordered for evaluation of residents’ ability to sewer cost and that range of disposable income.
7. Please order a clear and timely mitigation plan for all the “unavoidable impacts” that includes the what, when, where and how details that are clear and specific.

Watershed Mark said...

MISPRISION OF FELONY: U.S. CODE, TITLE 18, PART 1, CHAPTER 1, SECTION 4:
‘Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some Judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both’.

LEGAL TUTORIAL: The Steps of Common Fraud:

Step 1: Fraud in the Inducement: “… is intended to and which does cause one to execute an instrument, or make an agreement… The misrepresentation involved does not mislead one as the paper he signs but rather misleads as to the true facts of a situation, and the false impression it causes is a basis of a decision to sign or render a judgment”. Source: Steven H. Gifis, ‘Law Dictionary’, 5th Edition, Happauge: Barron’s Educational Series, Inc., 2003, s.v.: ‘Fraud’.

Step 2: Fraud in Fact by Deceit (Obfuscation and Denial) and Theft:

• “ACTUAL FRAUD. Deceit. Concealing something or making a false representation with an evil intent [scanter] when it causes injury to another…”. Source: Steven H. Gifis, ‘Law Dictionary’, 5th Edition, Happauge: Barron’s Educational Series, Inc., 2003, s.v.: ‘Fraud’.

• “THE TORT OF FRAUDULENT DECEIT… The elements of actionable deceit are: A false representation of a material fact made with knowledge of its falsity, or recklessly, or without reasonable grounds for believing its truth, and with intent to induce reliance thereon, on which plaintiff justifiably relies on his injury…”. Source: Steven H. Gifis, ‘Law Dictionary’, 5th Edition, Happauge: Barron’s Educational Series, Inc., 2003, s.v.: ‘Deceit’.

Step 3: Theft by Deception and Fraudulent Conveyance:

THEFT BY DECEPTION:

• “FRAUDULENT CONCEALMENT… The hiding or suppression of a material fact or circumstance which the party is legally or morally bound to disclose…”.

• “The test of whether failure to disclose material facts constitutes fraud is the existence of a duty, legal or equitable, arising from the relation of the parties: failure to disclose a material fact with intent to mislead or defraud under such circumstances being equivalent to an actual ‘fraudulent concealment’…”.

• To suspend running of limitations, it means the employment of artifice, planned to prevent inquiry or escape investigation and mislead or hinder acquirement of information disclosing a right of action, and acts relied on must be of an affirmative character and fraudulent…”.

Source: Black, Henry Campbell, M.A., 'Black’s Law Dictionary’, Revised 4th Edition, St Paul: West Publishing Company, 1968, s.v. ‘Fraudulent Concealment’.

FRAUDULENT CONVEYANCE:

• “FRAUDULENT CONVEYANCE… A conveyance or transfer of property, the object of which is to defraud a creditor, or hinder or delay him, or to put such property beyond his reach…”.

• “Conveyance made with intent to avoid some duty or debt due by or incumbent or person (entity) making transfer…”.

Source: Black, Henry Campbell, M.A., ‘Black’s Law Dictionary', Revised 4th Edition, St Paul: West Publishing Company, 1968, s.v. ‘Fraudulent Conveyance’


Why wasn't vacuum collection studied during Paavo's review of alternatives???

Not2010Yet said...

Barratry: encouraging litigation where none is needed, appropriate, nor possible.

Impersonation of an officer of the court: quoting a bunch of law and legal literature while attempting to revive a dead horse.

Vacuum sewer proponents: persons who have a vacuum in their head where the common sense lobe of the brain normally resides.

Vacuum sewer: with it's pits and shared facilities, the only sewer idea nuttier and less practical than STEP/STEG.

Coastal Commissioner: where sometimes reason, fairness and balance come to an abrupt end, like the continent does, at the shoreline. A particular danger to a sensible outcome for our wounded and weary town.

Sewertoons said...

Good golly!
wsm had laid out what the Lisa Board did to us!

Watershed Mark said...

You wish.

Watershed Mark said...

Fraudulent Concealment

Watershed Mark said...

Remember- sorry, I lost his last name and got him confused with your outfit Lynette says:


“Getting rid of Paavo would unravel the entire process”

Watershed Mark said...

Barratry, when used elsewhere, may refer to the buying and selling of positions (which are expected to bring greater income in time) within civil authority.

Alon Perlman said...

Well folks looks like this string is no longer front page news.
It has been relegated to the trash heap of history, known as "Older posts.
Toons or WMark;
Where can I find posted; the 22-14=? appeals that are not easily available. Two from Coastal commissioners, and at least- which is the Condition of Contention for the last two.
Word verification; nooto

Alon Perlman said...

Oh and I meant to say thanks WaterMark, For posting The Barrow Lawsuit.
Never underestimate Al's Power to sabotage a Project, and that goes double for his own "Projects", the one's in support of the Fakey Low income Housing Sham website, The Pseudo Environmental Sham Website. The "Look at me i'm installing Dr. Wickhams (Sludge Hammer?Pirana(?)) system, just before an election, T.V. Show" etc..."
Al's Lawsuits are another matter.

Interesting how non of the talk so far has been on something that will make an Iota of difference.