Thursday, June 23, 2011

Cat Jumps Out Of Bag TWICE!

Oh, Gosh, what' this?  I see everything twice!  Front page of the Tribune Local section, "Online note alerts supervisors," by Bob Cuddy, about the "Alleged conflict of interest involving public works director draws board's attention." Yes, Paavo & Maria are now officially official since the Tribune has apparently been forced to pay attention and now the Board of Superviors is looking into things -- "reacting to an online posting" -- is how Bob put it.

But, Uh, Bob, I don't think Cal Coast News is properly known as an "online posting," is it? I think's it's more an Online Newspaper, and the story was posted by Karen Velie, with her name on it and all.  An "online posting" makes it sound like something that popped up in a random note in the comment section of the Tribune's online edition or even the comment section of this blog.  You know, some anonymous comment tossed into the mix.  So "online posting" doesn't quite fit.

Or, perhaps it wasn't some wierd, random, anonymous "online posting," that caused the BOS to "react," since several members of the BOS have expressed disdain for and dismissed as trash anything appearing in blogs or other online sources.  Maybe the Board of Supervisors are actually reacting to the email (below), sent a few days ago to the BOS with a request it be put in the public record.:

"Dear Chairman Hill and Board Members:

Please place this letter in the official public record, to be included for consideration at your next Board meeting.

This letter serves as an official request that the County Board of Supervisors reopen a 2009 investigation and inquiry into allegations of ethics violations and wrong-doing by its current Public Works Director, Paavo Ogren.

As a prior elected official for the Los Osos Community Services District (2004-2008), I filed a formal complaint with your board regarding Ogren's handling of public money and the Los Osos wastewater project in the spring of 2009 - this formal complaint remains open and ongoing. I appeared in person before the Board and public on numerous occasions; I wrote letters, provided public testimony and provided supporting documents to your Board and County Counsel.

When I asked repeatedly (by email and phone call) to meet with each Board member during their regular open office hours, in order to discuss details of what I had discovered as an elected official, my requests to meet, by all five members, were repeatedly denied.

County Counsel Warren Jensen provided a report to the Board in the fall of 2009 to supposedly dismiss my formal complaint, yet his report ignored all but one of the allegations raised by it. Any mention or response to the allegations made about conflict of interest, divided loyalties, violation of design build and public contracting codes, ethical violations, backdating and awarding no-bid contracts to prior business associates, improper contract procurement and selection of engineering firms for large county contracts, etc. were all missing from his report.

I request that my complete 2009 complaint, in its entirety (approx. 500 original pages, and omitting all duplicated pages), be reincorporated into the public record again today. All allegations remain valid to this day and take on additional importance with new revelations that have just surfaced this week, regarding a non-disclosed, long term personal relationship between Mr. Ogren and a currently elected official of the LOCSD (who resigned today). This non-disclosed personal relationship may have compromised all decisions made regarding the Los Osos Project, the water supply for Los Osos, the ISJ discussions and any and all business matters between these two public agencies during the past few years.

I request that Mr. Ogren, an “at-will" employee, be immediately and permanently removed from all decisions regarding Los Osos and that he be placed on leave while a complete investigation takes place. I request that an independent investigator be retained by the County, similar to the procedure followed by your Board in 2009, when it was discovered that a high ranking public employee (G. Wilcox) was involved in a similar non-disclosed personal relationship with a public employee/official, where both were also in positions of making and influencing financial decisions using public money. This matter was investigated by an independent personnel specialist in the summer of 2009, and Ms. Wilcox was terminated.

Just like the Wilcox matter, this is not a matter that can be addressed by County Counsel. Mr. Jensen may have a personal relationship with Mr. Ogren that limits his abilities to be fair and impartial in this matter. By refusing to investigate the bulk of citizen concerns already raised about potential legal and ethical breaches made by Ogren in the past, he has already demonstrated an inability to provide impartial review. An independent investigator is required to evaluate whether Mr. Ogren’s history of multiple and repeated instances of questionable ethical behavior, including the most recent activities and actions, rise to a level of criminal code violations.

Nothing less is acceptable in light of yet another high-level County scandal; swift action by you and your Board not only protects the County, the taxpayers, but the integrity of your position and the public process.

Thank you.

Most Sincerely,

Lisa Schicker , Past President and Board Member, LOCSD 2004-2008"

Bets are now being placed as to how quickly County Counsel will shove this (above) complaint off the table, and how quickly County Administrator Jim Grant can investigate the Paavo & Maria story and dismiss it all as baseless. 

O.K., not exactly baseless.  Karen Velie's story spilled the beans about the relationship between these two and now the Tribune confirms that with quotes from Maria as saying that she and "Ogren have been dating for six months" but that the sewer isn't the basis for their relationship so they don't discuss sewerish things. Which is part II of the Velie story, the allegation that this "relationship," while Maria was on the CSD Board, presented a possible conflict of interest, especially since the CSD and the County are involved in ongoing (ISJ) water litigation matters as well as the ongoing sewer project. Since Maria resigned from the CSD Board, that allegation is now moot. 

But now that the cat has jumped out of the bag TWICE -- first with the Cal Coast News story (which was re-posted and linked on this blog) and now with Bob Cuddy's story -- perhaps the County, in the form of Jim Grant, can square away what, if any, county rules have been broken here and what can be classified as Walking While Stupid.

Meantime, I'm tickled by Cuddy's (actually, the Tribune's) use of the term "online posting," that makes NO MENTION of Cal Coast News or Karen Velie.  The reader would have NO IDEA that the online newspaper existed since it is not mentioned by name in any way, shape or form.  Which reminds me of how proper ladies were taught never to mention their husband's mistresses by name and only refered to them distastefully as "that other woman," or "that. . . creature." So, silence rules, which is what the Tribune did with the Wallace story that Cal Coast News first broke as well.  No mention of that when they did the follow up.  Or, should I say, follow after?

Well, stay tuned.  There'll be some huffing and puffing and some cat-in-bag noises, then the County will come out with a report that says, "Everything's fine, no laws were broken, nothing to see here, time to move along." 

That's the SLOTown way.


hugh jass said...

Does anyone know whether or not there is a "MORALS CLAUSE" in Ogrens contract with SLO County? Would be interesting to know that detail...

Mary Malone said...

Lisa, good for you for your tenacity!

Does anyone else find it absurd that the BOS is having their own staff do the investigation?

The BOS is just adding conflict of interest on top of conflict of interest. This is so much like John Wallace and the SSLOCSD board having one of their cronies do an "investigation" into Wallace's practices as administrator, it makes me wonder if Wallace is, indeed, now the administrator of SLOCo.

Alon Perlman said...

Hmm... Written for your previous blog post but still Germaine;

The social meme of “this next new discovery will bust this thing wide open” has become a mantra among Sewer activists for some years now. I don’t have the heart to discourage my friends who latch onto it, but it is a well trodden pattern, and it is fruitless here as it has been before. At the core, a complaint or innuendo has to track to an actual illegal activity, otherwise it will only end in confusion for most, costs of investigation/refutation bourn by all, a waste of time for some, grief for others, and an ugly gratuitously self-satisfied vicarious existence for a small set. As before, those sheeple who echo cry wolf will unwittingly let their own flock scatter. On the blogs the veracity of the complaints can and will be debated forever. “but Alon, don’t you think that Maria failed to answer “do you still beat your dog?”… no long answers, it’s a yes no question!””.

“On the ground” Real issues with the project details (Addressable issues, fixable real problems), will go uncorrected. This has been the dominant historical pattern in all LO Sewer “Discoveries”. There are some for whom “The end justifies the means” so they are hoping to get attention to what they feel are legitimate key issues, issues they know are not directly affected by the Paavo /Maria connection. But there is a small cadre of “being mean is an end in itself” and at this point, those mean voices are steering the ship.

Karen may be a CrackerJack reporter but the operative tool here is a feeding spoon for pre-chewed pap. The multiple personality GRO?/AU4R/HA ripped open this bag of presoaked soggy sour gummy worms, at least a year ago (Putting out salacious rumors on Kelly/Paavo).

Alon Perlman said...

CalCoast are the played, not the players. Fourth estate rubes showing up late to the beggars’ banquet. Repeaters, not reporters. Case in point would be Dan Blackburn’s self congratulatory expo$e, which managed to present nothing new, along with the pompous claim that “If you think you knew about the Sewer….”. Primary sources for Blackburn were self promoters ; Al “Venerated elderly statesman” Barrow, who has delivered more death threats than all Los Osos combined. And who has vacuumed many old ladies pocketbooks dry (Report on that, whydoncha). And “Ed Ochs” who, after moving back South two years ago, still seems to be relishing some kind of “Ayatollah Khomeini in exile” fantasy.
Karen called Maria’s old land line number and got Shawn’s SLO based phone; Verifying rumors with angry x’s. She did not seem to realize that she called a SLO number.
“Concerned citizen’s” unsubstantiated claims of parental neglect are mixed in with claims of a county public official’s “running” of CSD meetings. Selling a house in Osos while extracting from a messy divorce, not an enviable task. Maria would have had to face the question of percentage of time residing in Osos, eventually. Before the end of her term, anyway. As for the “Evidence”-Her kids were never enrolled in any Los Osos school. The choices were MB or SLO. Listen to the interview on the podcast. There is a class of leading/entrapment questions. If you can’t identify the “gotcha” versus investigatory opportunity phrasing. There can be no gain from answering because you lose either way.
I don’t hold sway with self descriptions of anonyms’, (realistic-1, realistic on this will not derail the current sewer) but if this turns out to be more than a “No-one cares”, it will not be good for anyone. More of our tax dollars spent to investigate inherently unimpeachable actions.

Alon Perlman said...

Governance by innuendo. The fleas wagging the tail.
The lesson of “Chinatown” is not the lesson of the “Erin Brokovitch” story. But it does track well with the much repeated unlearned lesson of Los Osos.
In “Chinatown” the Private Eye does not save the day and expose corruption. Instead they witness themselves being played and the system being manipulated. And the outcome winner is not in it for the money or the land or the water. The true motivator is an incestuous ego greed, and sick control. Late to the party and unable to trace out the relationships between the self sabotaging and competing “Saviors of Los Osos” factions, CalCoast/ have been “Jaked”, …again.

So that was written by me in context of your Valie posting not Cuddy..

The Wallace monopoly should be questioned. As it is, PaavogateII will overshadow it. Maria did give indication that she is friends with Paavo long ago. The resignation does not erase events. What makes it (ISJ deliberations) Moot, is the lack of difference in the interests of County and stated CSD intentions. There is no "There" there.

Move-the-sewer has suffered from a lack of leadership, an over abundance of following the wrong influences and a penchant for drama. Mixing legal and political naïveté with cynical media savvy, has been a recipe for self distraction and ineffectiveness. So this is the project Los Osos ended up with.

The drowned cat will resurrect, only to be drowned wailing again and again.

"It's impossible to awaken a man who is pretending to be asleep." (Native American proverb, Navajo)
Move-the-sewer has suffered from a lack of leadership and a penchant for drama. Continually mixing legal and political naïveté with cynical media savvy, a recipe for self distraction and ineffectiveness.

hugh jass said...

Alon, you've got NOTHING to say, you're obviously STONED again. BTW, You're spamming this site. The topic of this thread is "conflict of interest" & the sleazy affair between Kelly & Ogren...I had no idea that YOU are such a fan of their's. Don't tell me YOU'RE after a job, too? Do you REALLY think that YOU are scoring points with THEM???

FOGSWAMP said...

Seems like a few of our County Fathers are busy with damage control these days with Adam's crappy comments to Sam and Bruce's crappy handling of the LOWWP since we handed him our wallets back in AB2701.

Alon ...Beyond the two bad apples lies a barrel of fermenting apples which went sour as soon as Gibson let Paavo and his triad network get their arms around the project.

With such closeness and network of direct links, surely County officials could have predicted the likelihood of unethical behavior within such a network, or the harmful appearance thereof.

That on the surface may not be illegal, but it is in fact morally unacceptable to the broader community.

From a social view County government should discourage unethical behavior and foster a strong ethical climate to promote a code of ethics, social norms & values, not stack the deck for political reasons.

This class act chain of events is well documented.

Gotta run, pack up the motorhome & head for Pozo
Saloon to get a good parking spot.

Alon Perlman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alon Perlman said...

Stay Hydrated and enjoy the blue skies and music Fog.
We just had the fog lift in Baywood a few minutes ago.
It does get depressing sometimes in summer, speaking of other depressing things-
There are outcomes unavoidable that have more to do with lack of competition in a physically isolated coastal county. This thing is so entangled and wrapped up on itself, it makes salt water taffy appear reversible.
A fermented barrel of applesauce we can agree on.
Cider or vinegar?

Adam was just politically silly, he should had assumed that anything he wrote could see light, and since he gave up (BOS meeting) that he was responding in context of COLAB associated members sending partisan emails, we know where he was coming from. He could have done the other politically smart thing, and down-toned and qualified his statements at the outset. “will appear to some as being racist” Versus “Is Racist”
(Politically smart thing #1, “Do nothing”)

SLOTowner said...

Will this idiot ever shut up? Alon is posting all of this on every web site out there.

Morgaine said...

ALON says: "CalCoast are the played, not the players. Fourth estate rubes showing up late to the beggars’ banquet."


Sour grapes. How can CCN be soggy anything when they are usually weeks to months ahead of the Trib?

As far as the Ogren/Kelly secret relationship and failing to reveal conflicts of interests or recusal from voting...Nixon said there was no there there, as well. Most perps and guilty people do.

hugh jass said...

Good point, Morgaine! To quote Nixon, he also said, "I am NOT a CROOK"! Reminds me of some of the SLO County Politicians!

Pechomon said...

I tend to agree with Alon regarding the CalCoast distraction. It all appears to be one person's ego on fire and a heap of self-promotion to fan the flames.

When you strip away the hype it's just a rant that has about as much to with the sewer as CalCoast has to do with credible journalism.

The law will decide conflicts of interest, not CalCoast, which just makes accusations, misinterprets the law and quotes only Jeff Edwards to support its trumped-up tale. Comments here and elsewhere and Tribune factoids have since poked holes in their script, and yet they use the Tribune as the standard they have surpassed????

I seriously doubt Al Barrow and Ed Ochs were sources for the Kelly article, even though Barrow has spoken out against Kelly and Ochs has written about Ogren and the TAC. Ochs couldn't have moved far. Saw him twice in town last week. But then again we'll never know the sources for CalCoast's "facts." Will we????

Spectator said...

Perlman, your writing gets better and better with the years, and I am becoming a real fan. You also seem to be thinking with clarity recently, but it may be just me. Perhaps hindsight is 20/20.

Keep up the wordsmithing.

TCG said...

It's not just you, Spectator.

FOGSWAMP said...

Where is high mileage all-things-sewer "toons"? I miss fencing with her.

I guess she must be getting tailored up with a new look to run for a CSD chair eh?

hugh jass said...

Fog, That's the BEST thing I've heard all day! You're pobably right, though. LMAO!

M said...

I wish you guys would quit talking about that. It's tough enough going to sleep at night without that possibility rolling around in my head. It does seem odd that Sewertoons has not posted on this topic. Keeping a low profile for a run at the seat? Oh man.
Sincerely, M

alabamasue said...

FYI- Sewertoons is traveling in eastern Europe right now and should be back around July 2. She is not planning on applying for the CSD position, so you weirdos can stop stressing about that. Grow up.

hugh jass said...

Mimi, get a life, fer Gawd's sake..

Sewertoons said...

I'm back. Thank you alabamasue for explaining why I was not posting! I was in Turkey for the past 19 days. Internet communications sketchy at best, even at our hotel in Istanbul and certainly not great in Guzelcamli or Kas either. Might have looked harder to find a better connection had I not been so busy walking through the ruins of ancient civilizations and looking at the artwork of same, enjoying the sophisticated and complex culture in Turkey and of course, eating the ultra-delicious Turkish food.

Looks like I missed a lot of opportunities to comment. But Alon summed everything up perfectly.

I had no plans at all on applying for the CSD position, but I will say, the negativity above has certainly made that idea tempting.

hugh jass, Mimi and alabamasue are not the same person, (but I'm sure I will not change your opinion on that).

Hope you all have a safe and fun July 4 holiday.

Churadogs said...

Wow, Turkey. Sounds like you had a great trip. Luckily, things have been quiet around here, Paavo/Kelly-wise. I'm sure somewhere in the bowels of County Government, some poor soul is busy crafting and polishing a "report" that will soothe and spin and finesse and, above all, defend and protect and shield the County from any and all fall-out from this whole stupid mess. The only mystery now is How far --or not -- the County will shove Paavo under the bus.

Sewertoons said...

Yes, we did have a great trip. Saw a lot, but Turkey is huge, filled with amazing sights and archeological treasures, and there is material for many, many more trips in the future. Turkey looks like a good model for the Middle East in its toleration for different religious observances despite being a Moslem county. Jews, Christians, Moslems all live and work side-by side. One small example: You will see women friends walking together, one head-scarved and heavily coated, the other in shorts and a sleeveless top. Turkey also has great new roads (where we were anyway), and puts our Big Sur Highway 1 to shame in the scary/rocky coastal area. We saw tons of new construction, and from outward appearances, it seems quite prosperous. Many, many people speak English. A high degree of literacy and economic wealth help tolerance I guess. We had cable TV in all 4 hotels. In Istanbul, most of the stations were Turkish news stations. (Yeah, there were some dopey soap operas too.)

You got "whole stupid mess" right Ann. As Alon has said somewhere, "there is no 'there' there." This is a non-issue and I speak from being close to the situation. There is no need to shove Paavo under the bus as nothing untoward has happened. Some people, out of boredom or personal desperation, or perhaps just plain meanness, look for any excuse to stop the current project. I heard one speaker on the June 21 BOS meeting make the assertion that Step was denied due to this new "information" and must now be reconsidered. And the misinformation spewed on Congalton's show was disgusting.

I guess what irks me most is the lack of acceptance of what the people want. Tri-W was not wanted. Enough people got it stopped. OK, Tri-W supporter that I was, I accept that. When people marked their survey for out of town with gravity collection, there are some who simply will not accept that gravity part. They were fine when people voted their way (on location) but not fine with those same people's opinions when they didn't (pro-gravity). Do they believe dictatorship is the way to go?

Leonard Pitts said something interesting in yesterday's Trib that I will apply here: "There are two particularly effective methods for manipulating people. The first is to create fear. The second method is to create an image that moves people to act in a desired way."

FEAR: Liquefaction!! Sludge falling off the backs of trucks!! Trench cave-ins!! Stinky, giant, gravity pipes breaking apart, leaking sewage into the aquifer!! A third of the town will have to move!!

IMAGE: Step tanks and a Step system is environmentally friendly!

Guess the salesmen on the image part didn't quite sell that message.

Nice to be back home.

Middle Ground said...

FEAR: "We are polluting millions of sewage into the bay every day" - Sewertoons, 9/4/07

FEAR: "It’s kind of disgusting we’re sitting on top of our drinking water with septic tanks." - Lynette Tornatzky, 3/16/11 (KSBY-TV)

IMAGE: Barbara Wolcott claims that the "ultra-opposition" wants to pollute like the City of Ur with extreme disregard for health concerns - Small Town Perfect Storm (July 2009)

IMAGE: Tornatzky claims that the "obstructionists" are only "salesmen" who are only concerned about selling STEP/STEG, which she has determined analogous to "no sewer."

You should have stayed in Turkey.

Sewertoons said...

There is a difference between fear based on suppositions and fear based in fact. The County has stated that 300,000 gallons of wastewater is leaching into the bay daily. And in case you have not noticed, we do not drink from the upper aquifer, it's too polluted. Septic tanks are responsible for that loss of resource. However, if drinking nitrated water is acceptable to you, dig a hole 5' into the ground near the bay and insert a straw.

Please provide your documentation on:
1. FEAR #1
2. IMAGE #2

I guess my return has disappointed you Aaron.

Alon Perlman said...

Welcome back Toons. Thanks for the vote of confidence. And a nice blurb on Asia Minor-But while we have come to agree on very many items, I will point out that the STEP was realistic at the point of recall because the construction period for STEP was inherently shorter. For a short period, a cheaper project that would be completed no later than one or two years after (scheduled) TW completion was a rational alternative. But that track switch was not thrown.

Look to the Trib comments of “Learch”, representing the viewpoint that there is a “Connection” and that the 2009 complaint is “resurrectable”. Also, oddly acknowledging the futility of re-submission to the AG (now moonbeam powered governator). If it’s futile, why promote it? Can’t let go? Pedal depressed behavior?

The County have recently reduced the webspace of several items formerly on their LOWWP pages. They published the 2009 complaint BECAUSE publishing it SERVED THEIR purposes. That is how utterly bad of a complaint it was. Surprising they held on this long.

Alon Perlman said...

Hindsight tells us, therefore; that “Cheaper Sewer” would not had executed post recall even if the Regulatory agencies had bought into the “we are the victims, help us, you bad people” and the Blakesly compromise had actually allowed a STEP collection system.

Here is some more hindsight. A complaint so overloaded and overdramatic that the County gladly published it, in order to justify its dismissal. That has to be a big jumble of a tumbleweed tangled in the track (2009 timeline) for anyone trying to trace the history further backwards. Instead, sewer change loyalists (including out-of-PZers) are still encouraging some fellow Los Ossans to place their meager pennies on the track ahead of the slorolling train. With predictable results to their legal tender, and that irks me.

And Toons; The bay is robust and can handle the septic contribution.
A certain percentage WILL have to leave or cease ownership of their homes.
That percentage will not be altered much with an imaginary STEP substitution at this point because costs of STEP+ Inherent Delay = or > Than Gravity uninterruptus at this point.

Don’t forget to view the last LOCAC meeting.
I see you’ve found the source of recurring My-Grains.

Sewertoons said...

Hi Alon! Happy 4th!

Yes, Step was possible, but not as a CSD-run project as I see it. There was no taking back the money already spent on gravity, so recovery (read money to proceed with anything else) from those already spent monies was pretty much impossible. There was no understanding by the Lisa board that the SRF loan was project specific and the money to pay for Step would have to come from another source, which source?

Later, I guess Step just didn't get the support in the community that its backers tried to win for it. Al, as a salesman, was a liability. And I believe you said that first. And I agree, due to delay, Step would not be any cheaper. Also, the problems I had with it were never addressed by Step supporters. How would a person be able to correctly estimate how much their property's restoration would cost? (Losing the trees in our front yard would displace a lot of creatures that placing lines in the street would not.)

I have asked and continue to ask - where were these "cheaper project" people in 2001? Not paying attention, not attending meetings are pretty lame excuses. They seem to not accept their part in this and focus only on blaming the old board.

I am not so worried about the bay's health, although the study with the fish is somewhat alarming, but am more worried about the water supply under us. We are wasting it out into the bay, when it should be returned to the ground.

I will check out the last LOCAC meeting. Comments on learch later.

SLOTowner said...

It's always about Step, Step, Step with you people. Lord, you and Alon need to find a life outside the web.

Sewertoons said...

Tell that to the regular commenters at the BOS who keep this issue alive.

I personally would love to not address it. One commenter on a recent Congalton show mentioned the $80,000 needed to supposedly bring Step back. To quote Alon above, "sewer change loyalists (including out-of-PZers) are still encouraging some fellow Los Ossans to place their meager pennies on the track ahead of the slorolling train." That is why I keep going - to try to stop even one person from paying money into this dead-end.

Churadogs said...

Alon sez:"I will point out that the STEP was realistic at the point of recall because the construction period for STEP was inherently shorter. For a short period, a cheaper project that would be completed no later than one or two years after (scheduled) TW completion was a rational alternative. But that track switch was not thrown."

Once again (AGAIN) another (ANOTHER) example of those critical junctures that were missed -- switch was not thrown. That surely will be the communities epitaph: "We Kept Forgetting To Throw The Switch, Again & Again, At Critical Points And So The Train Went Off The Cliff. Oops. Sorry."

Sewertoons said...

What would "throwing the switch" have looked like? Where would the financing have come from? What would have prevented the contractors from suing? Where was asking the people what they wanted - you know - the Chinese menu - going to come into play? Suppose the community did not want Step?

Realistic1 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Realistic1 said...

Time to pay up, Hugh Jass! Did I not say that someone would call for a halt to the project over the Maria/Paavo non-story?

'toons tells us: "I heard one speaker on the June 21 BOS meeting make the assertion that Step was denied due to this new "information" and must now be reconsidered."

I rest my case...

SLOTowner said...

I didn't realize the Los Osos Nazi Party was meeting on this site today.

Sewertoons said...

Oh, SLOT - you got your dates mixed up - you mean those LO Nazi persons persons from a few days back STILL trying to ram Step/Steg down our throats.

FOGSWAMP said...

"OMG" Toons is back. I thought you moved to Turkey.

I guess at this point in time with the Paavo investigation, it would be reasonable to assume that some computers/hardrives will become stolen, misplaced or simply vanish off the planet eh?