Saturday, June 18, 2011

Karen Velie of Cal Coast News Does It Again!

Now, there’s a crackerjack reporter . . . with a can opener!

Let’s see if the Tribune does any follow up? Oh, right. What was I thinking? Ah, yes. People behaving badly here at the corner of Peyton Place and SewerVille.

Sex and the Los Osos sewer

June 17, 2011


A vehicle crash into a San Luis Obispo creek has revealed the extent of a personal relationship between a top county official and a Los Osos Community Services District board member—raising allegations of a possible conflict of interest.

Accusations that Paavo Ogren, San Luis Obispo County Public Works Director and Maria Kelly, vice president of the Los Osos Community Services District, have been conspiring to help push through a $200 million sewer project have surfaced because the couples’ teenage children, from former marriages, drove a car down a 20-foot embankment into San Luis Creek on June 14.

“In the context of the waste water project for the community, Ms. Kelly has been a proxy for Paavo Ogren,” said Jeff Edwards, a 30-year resident of Los Osos.

Thursday, as suspicions grew that Kelly had been staying in San Luis Obispo with Ogren rather than living in the district she represents as required to serve on the board, Kelly abruptly stepped down from her position as vice president of the district.

“Unfortunately, as I evaluate my current situation and the needs of my children, I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that I must immediately step down, since I do not believe I can provide the commitment and attention that the Board of Directors requires and that the community of Los Osos deserves,” Kelly said in her letter of resignation.

Ogren’s son is presently facing a felony drunk driving charge after driving Kelly’s son and two other teens into the creek. Police said the teens resided in San Luis Obispo and Atascadero. None provided Los Osos as their place of residence.

Ogren and Kelly began spending time together about two to three years ago, around the time Kelly was elected to the board. Over the years, the couple was observed discussing strategy prior to meetings causing some to question if a conflict of interest existed.

In 2010, Kelly left her husband, transferred her children to San LuisObispo schools and moved in with Ogren. Every other week, she would spend a few days with her children at her former home in Los Osos.
Kelly and her ex-husband are attempting to sell their former residence.

For years, Kelly has advocated in favor of Ogren’s vision for the Los Osos sewer plant – a $200 million controversial sewage system slated to serve about 12,500 people.

“I’m happy to be here and I’m happy to be here in support of the county — and I’m happy to be in support of county staff. I’ve been a broken record on that they’ve been extremely professional, helpful, diligent and very responsive to the community,” Kelly said during a September 2009 San Luis Obispo County Board of Supervisors meeting.

“I already had to take one job due to budget cuts at Cal Poly. I’m willing to take another. I love Los Osos that much. I’m willing to do what I have to do to keep my family there and raise my children,” Kelly added at the time.

Meanwhile, CalCoastNews has learned Ogren’s home is allegedly a frequent after school “party house ” where teens go to smoke and drink. One parent of a teen who was in the accident, said they have found the teens partying after school at Ogren’s home on several occasions.

Ogren and Kelly did not return requests for comment.


Rick said...

I thought the sewer thing was out of the CSD's hands after the state law passed?

M said...

After the sewer is built, I believe it is supposed to go back under the CSD's control. It would be nieve to think that there would not be any favoritism shown for positions handed out by the Public Works director in charge of this project.
At least she did the honorable thing and quit rather than try to cover it up. You know what they say, "the cover up is what get's you in trouble", not the actual act. Just like Anthony Weiner, sending nude pics of himself, sexting, and cavorting with porn stars was alright. It was the fact that he lied about it that got him in trouble. Just the kind of person we want governing us. NOT.
Sincerely, M

Maria M. Kelly said...

I was never requested to comment by Velie. No emails; no phone call; nothing. I know she had my email as a "concerned" LO resident felt the need to contact her and push for an article. Her article has inadequacies and since she was looking for a sensationalized story based on personal challenges there wouldn't have been a response from me anyway.
I am home today if you would like to stop by and see for yourself where I have lived with my children for 7 years; 2 dogs; dying grass because there is a water shortage; and yeah! the sun came out.
To somehow imply that I have had this incredible amount of power and ability to singlehandedly effect how a board of 5 impacts a sewer project they(LOCSD) have no authority over is pretty impressive! Thanks for the confidence (extreme sarcasm intended). If there was integrity in the request of a story, then someone could have requested a copy of my letter or checked some facts, with me.
Enjoy the rest of your day, we finally got some sunshine and I'm not going to stay inside all day cleaning my bathrooms so don't stop by and ask to use it!
Maria M. Kelly

FOGSWAMP said...

It seems "conflict of interest" and weighted committees, in a lot of ways, have historically been a rather large part undermining or tarnishing the entire process and choices.

This unique feature led to an incredible amount of enthusiastic participation by many that shared that awareness driving the process.

What's remarkable is that, "Conflict of Interest" was not a charge of either County Government nor our own CSD, everybody joined in that melee. They all contributed and signed off in the end.

Karen Velie said...

I tried the number I had for you and a family member said you were no longer at the number. I called the CSD and was told they do not give out your number, but they claim they gave you a message to call. I do not have your email.

Also, you called yesterday, still on my cell, though after the story was posted. I have been told you stay in Los Osos some times.

Government code says your residence for elected office is where you primarily stay.

Also, why did you pull your children out of Los Osos schools and move them to SLO?

hugh jass said...

Maria, You've been "cavorting" with Paavo for years, don't tell me you didn't expect a nice little County job with all the perks & benefits that go along with it, we're NOT stupid. Further, since this affair has been going on for YEARS, you & I both know what "conflict of interest" is, so my BURNING question to you is: WHY DIDN'T YOU STEP DOWN MUCH SOONER? This really has the "appearance" not ONLY of SLEAZE, but also unethical behavior...

Pechomon said...

So Velie "tried the number" and "a family member (?) said" ... and she claims she left a message at the CSD office... No email attempt at all ("I do not have it").

Very shoddy half-baked reporting. Obviously Velie didn't want a response.

How much time elapsed between when Velie tried to reach Maria and when she posted the story? Typical Velie ambush.

If Velie was "told" (?) Maria stays in LO sometimes, why did she write Maria lives with Paavo? If Maria's primary residence is LO, Velie is wrong yet again.

Lie after lie. Inaccuracy after inaccuracy. That's Cal Coast, uh, "News."

Velie better dust off her checkbook and put her house in her cat's name because Maria is going to be owning it soon enough.

Billy Dunne said...

Hi Maria. I haven't commented here forever but felt the need to come on and say how much I appreciate the fact you never hide from anything and have always been forthright in facing your detractors in a mature and open way and yes, signing your name to everything you write. This is more than can be said for the gutless, cowardly anonymice who have been merciless over the years with their insulting and degrading comments. And although I know you and Julie Tacker have probably little in common except your desire to serve your community, I've always admired this in her as well. I have always suspected the reason for the especially toxic comments directed at the both of you, and the trashy obsession with your personal lives from the gutless who themselves refuse to sign their names, is because you are powerful women, and hence a threat to them. But you and Julie both have shown amazing resilience in facing the sleazy attempts by those lacking your courage to humiliate and degrade you. I have the utmost respect for both of you.

Ann, I would have thought this kind of typical calcoastnews tabloid garbage was beneath you. Sadly I must be mistaken.

And to all those who think once again this is the ticket which will stop the sewer (This is it!! This is the big one!!), I say: Try, try, try again my poor, misguided grasping-at-straws friends.

One last thing. Jeff Edwards, are you really making a big deal of this? Really?

hugh jass said...

Maria will have far more problems to deal with & won't have the time or money to pursue a lawsuit against CCN, Maria is going to have a tough job ahead of her trying defend herself against "conflict of interest" claims...not to mention the "personal stuff" like child custody...

Maria M. Kelly said...

Velie- you were emailed my email. You are full of crap. You spoke to my ex who moved our LO number to SLO in August 2010. My children have been in SLO schools since we moved down from Paso in 2005 because they were in the duel immersion program. I'll post email here and there was no request for comment, do your job if you want to post information about people, it's not the LOCSD staff's job, don't waste district time and money:

Julie Tacker to Velie:, Maria, Marshall

I only have email addresses:

Marshall Ochylski is the Board President

Julie Tacker

-------- Begin forwarded message --------
Subject: LOCSD Special Meeting Agenda
Date: 6/16/11 1:53:11 PM
From: "Ann Kudart"
To: "Karen Vega"

I waited for the email and none came. You are a piece of work Velie and I did call after I heard you on the Congleton show and asked you to confirm your sources. I don't need anything more from you. The source has reported to me there was no conversation with you.
Thanks for your time.
Maria M. Kelly

Ron said...

Maria writes:

"To somehow imply that I have had this incredible amount of power and ability to singlehandedly effect how a board of 5 impacts a sewer project they(LOCSD) have no authority over is pretty impressive!"

That IS quite a stretch.

I mean, "Accusations that Paavo Ogren, San Luis Obispo County Public Works Director and Maria Kelly, vice president of the Los Osos Community Services District, have been conspiring to help push through a $200 million sewer project have surfaced..."



Is Karen attempting to imply that the reason Los Osos is getting a gravity sewer system is because some sort of Paavo/Maria relationship, that may, or may not exist? (And IF it does, I really don't care [unless, of course, there IS a real conflict of interest, not just "accusations", which, I don't see.])

Yep, that's "crackerjack reporting," alright.

Is there a little toy inside?

"CalCoastNews has learned Ogren’s home is allegedly a frequent after school “party house ” where teens go to smoke and drink."

Assuming that's "allegedly" true... Ahhh, makes me nostalgic for high school. It's good to see that some things never change ; -)

Churadogs said...

My thanks for comments on the record from Karen Velie and Maria Kelley regarding contacts on this story. The ball is now in Karen's corner regarding a follow up on the matter of implied "conflict of interest."

As for Ron's point, from my point of view, "conflict of interest" has been inherent for years in this project, from one group or the other. However, even though the County "legally" has this project, since the formation of the TAC to the County's official acceptance of the project, the Boad of Directors of the CSD has had and still has an official advisory role to play and will ultimately inherit the project, unless the CSD goes kaput. So there are public points of contact that remain at a more critical level than would be the case for merely private citizens with personal challenges.

As for appearances, clearly the "Caesar's Wife" dictum for public officials has likely gone the way of the dodo.

And as for "tabloid" coverage, this turned into a "news" story when Dave Congalton made it a "news" story broadcast all over the county. And now, with Maria & Karen weighing in, you've got on the record accounts of who called whom and when. You can judge for yourself if those calls were sufficient. And with Maria's prudent resignation from the CSD, the "public" portion of the story ends and it now reverts to a private matter. For now.

Unless Paavo is also publicly taken behind the woodshed as well, which should happen, but I won't hold my breath. This is SLO County, after all.

Ron said...

Ann writes:

"... this turned into a "news" story when Dave Congalton made it a "news" story broadcast all over the county."

Wanna hear something funny on that very interesting point?

A couple weeks back, after listening to Dave and Karen discuss (on Dave's show), the importance of local investigative journalism, I e-mailed Dave, saying that their conversation inspired me, and I'd actually come on his show to discuss the REAL Paavo/Los Osos story -- the one I've exposed over and over and over again:

How Paavo, when he was the interim LOCSD GM in 1999, and his friends at the Wallace Group, Crawford Multari and Clark, and Cleath & Associates, all had a hand in creating the Los Osos sewer disaster to begin with, in 1999, when they all helped torpedo the County's "ready to go" sewer project from the 1990s, with their known-to-be-dead-on-arrival downtown ponding disaster, and then, how they've all been cashing fat checks off of that self-made disaster ever since, and Congalton replied with, "Thanks for your kind words, Ron," and that was it!

So, look at Congalton here... it's hilarious:

He turns on his megaphone for an "accusations"-based story about how two local adults might have a relationship, and how one of those adults gave some bland public comment two years ago, and how there's not a shred of evidence that the couple was even a couple two years ago (as if it would even matter), and Congalton creates a "news" story of it, yet, a document-based story showing how a small group of consultants, including the current SLO County Public Works Director, deliberately created the entire Los Osos sewer disaster back in 1999, just so they could get paid for decades to come, and Dave goes to the, "Thanks for your kind words, Ron," card.

Here's the funny part: Welcome to media consolidation, SLO County style!

Dave's listed as a "Contributing Editor" at CalCoastNews (where there's no mention of his KVEC connection), AND he has the ONLY local talk radio show (and, when Karen's on his show, he never discloses his CalCoastNews connection), so, anyone else that happens to dabble in investigative reporting in SLO County, doesn't get Dave's megaphone, because it would conflict with his gig at CalCoastNews, where they write:

"CalCoastNews is San Luis Obispo County's only on-line independent news source producing in-depth investigative news in the public interest."

So, if Dave were to have someone else on his show that produces, on-line "in-depth investigative news in the public interest" in SLO County, well, that would make that line above a... uh... errrr... how should I put this... less-than-accurate, wouldn't it? And, the "Contributing Editor" at CalCoastNews can't let that happen on his radio show, right?

Ah, the dangers of "media" consolidation ; -)

Morgaine said...

Instead of personally attacking Karen Velie, and saying she was wrong, perhaps if Kelly actually addressed the issues raised in the story, she would have more credibility.

Kelly needs to explain, at the very least, why she did not recuse herself from votes which benefited herself and her lover, and why she appeared before the Board of Supervisors, as a LOCSD board member, to praise Ogren's vision for the sewer project.

There are public officials being arrested all over California for this type of activity.

By not recusing herself, all of the Ogren-related board items on which she voted are called into question.

Morgaine said...

Kelly's resignation was not "prudent." "Prudent" would have been if she resigned when she started sleeping with Ogren.

I read nothing here that supports Kelly, except for her being "nice." No one has been able to refute anything published by CCN.

My question now is this: when is the Board of Supervisors going to terminate Ogren's contract, and order a review of all of the decisions made while Kelly was on the LOCSD board?

hugh jass said...

Further, all decisions that were made that had a negative effect on the citizens of Los Osos, should be rescinded at once,Ogren needs to be terminated at once & Kelly needs to be thoroughly investigated. Let's see how "attractive" Ogren looks to Kelly when he no longer has a high paying County position...I had no idea that Los Osos had become another "Peyton Place"!!! I Had no idea there were so many women in LO with "loose legs"...

TheOpenEye said...

Speaking of "loose legs," be at the LOCSD office at 8 a.m. sharp tomorrow morning to make sure Lynette Tornatsky aka "Sewertoons" aka Taxpayers Watch doesn't take Kelly's seat.

If that prospect doesn't alarm you, what will?

Churadogs said...

Morgaine sez (of my previous comment)"Kelly's resignation was not "prudent." "Prudent" would have been if she resigned when she started sleeping with Ogren."

Point taken. Perhaps I should have said "finally" prudent. Or, "better late than never prudent." Or "after the barn door was closed " prudent. Sadly, people being "pre-prudent" seems to be a thing of the past nowadays.

Ron, interesting point: If Dave's a part of the Cal Coast News Team, surely he'd be interested in other lines of investagative journalism, unless the CCNT group ONLY features or references what their own team members produce? Like I have noticed that the Tribune doesn't seem to credit CCN on any story they broke first, they just step in like they discovered it first, without mention of where the information came from. Likely that's just industry policy not to acknowledge the "competition?"

The next leg in this story is Paavo and what the County decides to do about his involvement, especially considering the water litigation/bankruptcy issues the CSD and County were and still are involved in & etc.(The issues between the CSD & the County over The Sewer / water is far from settled.) His behavior was also "non prudent" and I'm sure the county's looking at their exposure here since that's all they'd be concerned with -- whether somebody could sue them for whatever reason.

Meantime, Give me more of dat ol' time PRE-PRUDENCE, please!

hugh jass said...

OpenEye, OMG! You CAN'T be serious! Tornatsky as Kelly's "replacement"? Please say it aint so...Talk about someone with "bias" on the LOCSD, SHE'S been in bed with the County all along...

Ron said...

Ann writes:

"the Tribune doesn't seem to credit CCN on any story they broke first, they just step in like they discovered it first, without mention of where the information came from. Likely that's just industry policy not to acknowledge the "competition?"

Two points:

1) Dave and Karen talk about that all of the time -- how the Trib won't follow up on CCN's stories, and if they do, like you write, they won't acknowledge who broke the story.

Yet, when the shoe's on the other foot, and Dave can follow-up on the stories of another "on-line independent news source producing in-depth investigative news in the public interest," it's brush-off time... just like the Trib does to CCN.

2) And this is a GREAT journalism point that I've made numerous times... HAD any of the local media followed up -- in the slightest way -- my 2000 New Times cover story, where I show that the DOA project that was used to form the LOCSD in the first place, in 1998, AND was directly responsible for killing the County's "ready to go project," was on the verge of failing, and less than a month after my story was published, that "better, cheaper, faster" disaster was in the dumpster, the past 11-years-and-counting of the Los Osos sewer disaster would have never happened, because HAD any of the local media followed up -- in the slightest way -- my 2000 New Times cover story, the people responsible for "better, cheaper, faster" would have been run out of office in 2000 (for obvious reasons), and the project would have just naturally turned BACK to the County's 'ready to go" project... in 2-friggin'-000!, and TRUST ME, Paavo and Maria wouldn't even know each other today.

But the Trib (or even New Times [for that matter]) didn't write one word of follow up, and "better, cheaper, faster" quietly went down the drain, and, because the local media, including Dave, didn't follow up at all on "Problems With the Solution," the 2000 LOCSD was able to quietly turn to their "bait and switchy" Tri-W disaster, that wasted ANOTHER five years, and some $25 million (with almost all of it going to Paavo's consultant friends, as continues to be the case, to this day) -- five years, and some $25 million that would have never been wasted, had the local media just done the slightest bit of follow up to "Problems With the Solution."

So, look at this amazing journalism lesson: THAT's what can happen when the local media goes to the petty "not acknowledge the competition" card.

Wow, what a great local story. You'd think it'd make for an interesting local talk radio segment. Guess not.

(Missed "Your Sunday Poem," Ann.)

TOE writes:

"Lynette Tornatsky aka "Sewertoons" aka Taxpayers Watch doesn't take Kelly's seat."

Oh, that's oerfect... soooooo Los Osos.

FOGSWAMP said...

Given the electrified nature of our LOWWP you would expect our County Supervisor(s) would ensure that staff members follow rigid ethic rules and implement a prudent risk-aversion general plan to avoid conflict.

It's hard to imagine how County government could hide under a veil of ignorance as to their project managers behavior and the potential risk of conflict, warranted or not.

In the private sector such behavior is nipped-in-the-butt and in most cases where blatant, the party is fired outright. Regular classes on the exposure are
Mandatory, so getting fired comes as no surprise.

Pechomon said...

I read nothing here that supports Kelly, except for her being "nice." No one has been able to refute anything published by CCN.

Faced by clear refutation of the story's reasons to exist, total denial of obviously shoddy "reporting" is a clear sign that CCN has chosen to circle the wagons and go down swinging, rather than play their game of "gotcha" fairly, openly and honestly. If they did there would be no story.

TMZ-phone-tip-no-source-rumor-mongering is a losing formula for a fantasy news operation in SLO County. Lacking credibility and integrity, CCN will flounder another year at the most and disappear.

Morgaine said...

Pech, I still haven't read anything refuting the facts stated in the CCN article.

If the best you can do is "attack the messenger," then that's not saying much about your argument.

Pechomon said...

Pech, I still haven't read anything refuting the facts stated in the CCN article.

How do you refute fiction?

If the best you can do is "attack the messenger," then that's not saying much about your argument.

Come on, you can't hide behind that old over-used "attack the messenger" shield of ignorance. Who are you? You are no messenger when you're the one doing the attacking, judging and executing on nothing more than rumor.

Your credibility is very much an issue. Therefore, before you wade into deeper denial without a paddle, please provide a brief description here of your background as a journalist so we may give you the respect you claim is due you without question.

I know what Kelly's qualifications and non-qualifications are for her kid being in a car crash, but what are your qualifications for connecting the rumors?

A little transparency from CCN might help. Or is CCN above scrutiny as a news source ... like the Trib?

Sadly, CCN appears to be nothing more than the Trib upside down, and, no thanks, we don't need two Tribs.

hugh jass said...

Pechomon, You OBVIOUSLY do NOT live in Los Osos, maybe NOT even in SLO County because IF you DID LIVE HERE, you would know that the CCN article regarding Ogren & Kelly IS, in fact true & correct...Have you EVER observed Kelly at any of the BOS meetings where she absolutely GUSHES over the COUNTY PROJECT? No doubt about it, she helped Ogren BIG TIME, in more ways than one! There is definitely a CONFLICT OF INTEREST. Neither showed the slightest regard for their FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITIES...

hugh jass said...

OpenEye, Other "possibilities" for Kelly's replacement could be, "Shifty" McPherson or "Pandering Pandy". Both of these individuals have "endeared" themselves to Bruce Gibson...

Karen Velie said...


I get dozens of emails each day and I do not open everyone every day. Dan Blackburn was told by your friend Ed that you decided not to call because you did not want to discuss the issue. Also, many reporters and editors do not do email interviews.

Instead of trying to put up a smokescreen that you where not called stick to the issue.

What in the story is incorrect?

Did you not leave your husband for Paavo? Did you resign when you started staying in SLO more than Los Osos? Did you and Paavo explain to County administrators and district officls that you where in an intimate relationship?

Did you support Paavo's vision for the sewer during public meetings? Did you discuss issues with Paavo and then vote on them?

Did your sons not have an accident? Have you not been asked to control the drinking?

Government code does not say you can sleep at a home a few days a week and claim you live there. It is required that officials step down when they primarily stay somewhere else.

Neighbors and relatives of Maria say she does not stay very often, until now, at her home in Los Osos.

Realistic1 said...

What the car crash of four teenagers has to do with the Los Osos sewer is beyond me. Why the crash merited CCN hanging out Maria's dirty laundry is beyond me as well. But...whatever. That's "journalism". It's the price we pay for living in a free society. However, anyone believing that the revelation of a personal relationship between Maria Kelly & Paavo Ogren will do anything to derail the sewer project is just plain delusional. This information is about as relevant as all the "smoking guns" Ron Crawford believes he's produced over the years. Paavo isn't a County Supervisor. Maria Kelly was a member of a toothless CSD board who had no control, and very little influence, over the project. So she supported the project at BOS meetings. B-F-D. She's supported the County project from the moment it was taken away from the LOCSD 5 years ago. A relationship with Paavo Ogren didn't change that, nor I'm guessing, did a relationship with Maria Kelly change Paavo's opinions either. Five supervisors made the decisions, as did a unanimous Coastal Commission, so good luck proving the Maria-Paavo relationship constituted a conflict of interest big enough to derail the project again. Sorry, Karen. Sorry, Ron. Sorry, Dave. I hate to break it to you all, but while this info may make for juicy headlines - simply put - NO ONE REALLY CARES.

Spectator said...

I always liked and voted for Maria Kelly until I left Los Osos in that she was representing the community to the best of her ability especially with the water issue. Same for Lynette. At this point in time we have no sewer, and the water problem, had we not gotten this year's rains, could have become a disaster. Well, for the time being the water problem has lessened. One can live with outhouses and no electricity, but one cannot live without water.

The sewer problem in Los Osos has certainly been divisive because of a federal unfunded mandate with the costs involved shoved down throats of those not able to pay. However, the water problem has always been the key player. There will never be a water treatment plant unless the sewer is built, and that will be an additional great expense. Kelly understands this.

Pavo Ogren has done his best against severe opposition, but his arrogance and lack of understanding has not helped him. Maria could have picked a better partner, and Pavo's actions of disrupting a family by even associating with Maria with sexual intent says a lot about his character. It also says a lot about Maria's character, but nothing about her competency. She has done the best she could for Los Osos.

It is very seldom that I agree with the bobsey twins, Ann Calhoun and Ron Crawford, but in this case their sight is clear.

Pavo should be forced to resign. He is paid entirely too much. There are more competent to replace him. His associations with vendors can easily be questioned.

As to Karen Velie: she has brought light upon a relationship which should never have begun in the first place. However, she is to be commended for sunshine, and we need to hold our public officials and bureaucrats to high standards. They work for us. There is a value to muckraking.

Sometimes people who you vote for are not who you thought they were. Character, regardless of political function, is key.

Mike Green said...

Hi Jon! (Spectator) I've been away traveling and just logged in to Ann's site after a long hiatus.
" Oh crap" is all I can say, since I don't live there anymore and sold my house there, I can only hope that this latest distraction won't cause anymore salt in the wound so to say, but one thing comes to mind with clarity, I don't know if you remember it, but it was at a CSD meeting and we were talking to Sam , after he left you turned to me and said "There is no human excellence in politics"
Truer words I have never heard.

FOGSWAMP said...

Realistic1 sez "NO ONE REALLY CARES'

Given that we now have around 7 billion folk on the planet, that statement was indeed "simply put".

It only worked for Adam because he knew nobody had said it before.

Ben Franklin said something like "if all journalists were determined not to print anything until they were sure it would offend nobody, there would be very little printed".

Why all the delusional rant about stopping a project? The story seems to be about ethical behavior, not stopping a project.

hugh jass said...

Fogswamp said it best, "IT'S ABOUT ETHICAL BEHAVIOR" & neither of these two people have displayed any evidence of ETHICAL CONDUCT...Karen is to be commended for having the guts to bring this "story" to the forefront...So, BFD, if it took the drunk driving escapade of their kids to get this story exposed...The sleazy affair has been going on for years, however, those who knew about it, had no way of "discreetly" calling attention to it, even though it is ALL TO DO WITH CONFLICT OF INTEREST by these two. Many of us wanted it brought to the attention of the authorities, but did not know how to go about exposing it...If both these people had been more focused on their JOBS & not EACH OTHER, their kids might have shown better judgment in their driving "responsibilities"...I just hope the DRUNK DRIVING charge will NOT be swept under the rug like it had been for the son of Frank Freitas. It took the AG to bring that kid to justice for KILLING a young girl & injuring her friend in Grover Beach...That, as I recall was because of NEW TIMES bringing the story to the light of day & basically "hounding" the officials for justice...Sometimes you have to "go through the back door" to get the results needed. I hope Karen stays on this story & these two get completely investigated & punished for their secrets & lies. Their affair has damaged an entire community...

Middle Ground said...

Maria could be having an affair with Paavo, but Karen couldn't prove it.

Until more concrete information surfaces, the article lacks merit.

hugh jass said...

Middle Ground, Karen & Crew WILL get the evidence...Count on it!

Realistic1 said...

Fogswamp says: "Why all the delusional rant about stopping a project? The story seems to be about ethical behavior, not stopping a project."

No delusional rant - just a simple statement that inevitably, someone will try to use this story as evidence of a "conspiracy" involving approval of the WWP. In fact, Karen Velie used that exact word in her story. Let's see how long it takes before someone gets up at the next BOS, or CCC meeting and demands the approval of the CDP be suspended until an investigation can be done. It's not delusional - it's just what some Los Osans do...

hugh jass said...

Realistic 1, You sound like you're obviously a friend of Paavo's and/or Kelly's. Please don't insult our intelligence by trying to distract peoples attention away from the VERY Real possibility of a CONFLICT OF INTEREST...It's happened before & will happen again, but NOT this time, because EVERYONE HAS THEIR EYE ON THE BALL. Both these people SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that EVEN the "perceived" appearance of a CONFLICT OF INTEREST was something they BOTH should have had uppermost in their minds...Gail Wilcox & David Edge both learned a very valuable lesson, Ogren needs to suffer the same fate as Wilcox & Edge. He is NOT irreplaceable, after all. There are far more competant people who can & will replace him. If the BOS doesn't get rid of Ogren, none of them will see another term in office...

Realistic1 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Realistic1 said...

Fogswamp - I've never met Paavo Ogren in my life and have been in the physical proximity of Maria Kelly once, at some community event at the Red Barn. I don't recall expressing support for either of them in my postings. I simply commented on the likely event that someone would attempt to use the info about Paavo & Maria to stop the WWP. I stand by my statement that nobody really cares about this - except for a handful of people on Los Osos.

(Deleted and reposted due to a typo - I hate typos!)

Realistic1 said...

Sorry Fogswamp - the above comment should have been directed at Hugh Jass...

hugh jass said...

Realistic 1, No one here is even attempting to stop the project...Has anyone here SAID THAT? Or do YOU have your crystal ball out? Maybe you're just "inventing things"...

Realistic1 said...

I never said anyone "here" was trying to stop the project - only that SOMEONE would attempt to use the situation to undermine the integrity of the CDP approval process in an effort to derail the project. I would be willing to bet money that someone calls for a halt to the project at the next BOS or CCC meeting because of this.