Yooooo Hoooo, Hellooooooo ....
The county's 121-page report on the fine screening of the wastewater project alternatives is available at the county's web site at: www.slocounty.ca.gov/PW/LOWWP. Below is a press release on a town hall meeting Tuesday night for a preliminary presention of the work to date. The RWQCB's stand down has given the community breathing room so they can PAY ATTENTION to the County's work. Input early in the game is critical. So please keep involved and stay tuned.
Project website: www.slocounty.ca.gov/PW/LOWWP
Project email address: LOWWP@co.slo.ca.us
TOWN HALL MEETING
OF THE
LOS OSOS
WASTEWATER PROJECT TAC
ON
TUESDAY, MAY 15, 2007
AT THE
SOUTH BAY COMMUNITY CENTER
2180 PALISADES AVENUE, LOS OSOS, CA
FROM
7:00 – 9:30 PM
AGENDA
7:00 pm – 9:30 pm
1. Chairperson Comments
2. Accept draft of TAC criteria for pro/con analysis
(including public comment)
3. Presentation by County Project Team of the Draft Fine Screening Analysis
(including public comment)
9:30 pm
4. Adjourn
LOS OSOS WASTEWATER PROJECT
TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
San Luis Obispo County Department of Public Works
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109 comments:
Where on the site is the link to the fine screening report? Can't find anything!
I too have searched for the document. I find it most disconcerting that I am unable to preview this information prior to the presentation. All information must be made readily available to the public to avoid any perception of deception. The working public, those without the flexibility to attend weekday meetings in SLO, need information posted in a timely manner.
There is rumor of a "petition" of some sort, presumably to disrupt the County's efforts? Could one of you confirm whether there is some petition, if there is, what is the purpose and also whether the CSD BOD have signed it?
The Fine Screening Report isn't out and won't be out for a little bit longer. For meeting times, click on the TAC part of the site and it lists agendas and schedules. More of us will be able to participate soon because the meetings are moving to Los Osos and are in the evenings.
Nothing like a night out on the town in LO!
REVOLUTION
Hi Ann - I join this morning's chorus in asking: Where, exactly, is the fine screening report posted? The Town Hall is on Tuesday!
No need for a revolution just yet. Access to the fine screening report would appease me.
Oh my God the panic has set in. Deception. Deception. We're all being deceived. The county is the devil. El Diablo. Quick, quick, the sky is falling. I must have the fine screening. I must have it. The meeting is Tuesday and we're being led to slaughter. Help. Help. Where the hell is the fine sreening!!!!!!??????
Are you mocking those citizens that choose to make educated choices?
I'm going to answer for 9:47 and say, YES! The fine screening hasn't been released yet. No one has it and no one will for a week or two more. Don't panic! Laugh a little, live a little
The only 121 page report at the county website is the rough screening report. Haste makes waste - literally.
Well excuse me for being interested. I have nothing against the county process and I support it. But...if Ann says there's a link to the fine screening report and then I can't find it, I think I am justified in asking. Geez everyone needs to chill out :)
ANN SAYS (so you know it's the truth!)
"The county's 121-page report on the fine screening of the wastewater project alternatives is available at the county's web site at: www.slocounty.ca.gov/PW/LOWWP "
Opps. ANN may have made a "mistake", but it's only the first time ever!
Just finished watching the RWQCB meeting on Thurs. I am so impressed with our community. I didn't see any (okay, one or two) sewer "obstructionists." As far as I could tell most folks who spoke support the county process and are involved in it. I heard once that Los Osos has the highest level of education of any community in the county and it was evident on Thursday. Thanks folks for supporting us and the county process! How come TW wasn't there? I guess they don't have much to complain about right now. The RWQCB can see that something is happening and want to let us do it. They want to let AB2701 do its thing. TW please either step aside or join in the progress. This is our chance to get it right. If you were involved in the original ponding group then listen up! Here is your chance to make your wishes known. Please join us. Real change happens when everyone is united.
Anon 5:06,
That's all nice and dandy what you wrote, but didn't you hear what Harvey Packard said at the end of the meeting??
He said that he didn't like all the "ifs" that the speakers referred to when they said they would support the county process and vote yes "if" they had an affordable and sustainable project. NO, HARVEY DIDN'T LIKE THE "IF" PART AND SAID SO. Apparently he knows more than you do about what's going to happen.
What happened Thursday was staged, the people here aren't as smart as you think they are (but they do deserve relief and the cap on fines is something to cheer about.)
FYI, EVERYONE WOULD UNITE WITH A SUSTAINABLE & AFFORDABLE PROJECT - EVERYONE EXCEPT HARVEY & JEFFREY YOUNG!
You dummy, where have you been? TW is most of the community property owners.
anon 5:06, what is with the obligatory rip and 'lecture' to TW? TW HAS been supporting the County & 218, long before the vast majority of those speakers on Thursday. The only reason to ask TW to step aside would be to sabotage a 218 vote.
Sorry it sounded like a lecture. I apologize. I guess I was wondering why they didn't join in and ask the RWQCB to give the county a chance to give the 218. If they support it why not come to the RWQCB and join with the rest of the community? I think we could present a stronger voice if we all said the same thing which it appears like we finally can! The last thing I want is to see the 218 undermined or sabotaged. BTW if TW supports a 218 why did they wait so long? We've been asking for it for lo these many years! Just curious.
What is with the claim that TW is "most" of the property owners? That may be the case, but not from what I see in terms of the public coming out to speak. I am a property owner as are MANY of my friends and neighbors and we do not support TW just as we do not support Al Barrow or Keith Swanson. Why the continual "we dominate" mantra? It's time to give it up people!
Anon 5:66:
You've got to be kidding!!! You didn't see Bo Cooper's performance when he called the prosecuting team "snot-nosed kids" and mocked them by calling them stupid? Or Al Barrow and George Taylor threatening their class-action lawsuit. Or renter Alon Perlman doing his arrogant schtick. As well as Cayucos resident Richard Margetson. The only thing missing was the Dragon lady singing her dragon song. Proud of this community? I want so desperately to get a project going so my property value comes back up and I can sell and get the hell away from these classless, arrogant, embarrassing, obstructionist assholes. Ask around the county and see what the rest of the civilized world thinks of Los Osos. You might be surprised. (or not)
Anon at 6:39:
...or is it crapkiller again? angry again?
The reason the rest of the county sees Los Osos as "nut cases" is because of the Tribune and their slant on every single story about the sewer issue (it's like the Dreamers and county's very own PR paper!)
If anyone outside the L.O. PZ had to pay the kind of bill we're going to have to pay, they'd stand up too! If they had this lie laid on them about their pollution, they'd stand up and shout too!
With Morro Bay dumping right into the ocean all these years and the RWQCB not caring about that, and with Nipomo having higher nitrates than us and the RWQCB not caring about that, and have terrorized only L.O. for being averaging one ml above what's allowed.... How about threats of $5000. a day, or threats of losing homes? Or CDO's/CAO's! How would anyone else feel??? Give us a break.
If this were happening to anyone else in any other area, there would be an uproar too!
The "civilized world" wouldn't be so "civilized" if this were happening to them (or they knew the truth.) And what about the county? They are the ones who should have put in a sewer years ago. What does the civilized world think about that? What does the civilized world think about letting the developers off the hook for paying for any infrastructure for the 1,100 homes built after 83-13? How about us paying for the most expensive sewer now so that the developers get to develop?...oh the BOS...the developers best friend...
P.S.
Look at who's talking about class! Love your language!
TW has actually put their money on the table to challenge the legality of Measure B which has been found invalid twice so far. The final round is coming up soon and that should end the Measure B smokescreen.
TW is also challenging the legality of the 5 CSD BOD who hired lawyers to work out strategies prior to the recall election and then paid those lawyers from the District public funds rather than out of their private wallets.
If there was not a TW, just who would be representing the community? Do you really think Lisa, Julie, Chuck, Steve, John, Keith, Al and Gail have been representing the majority of the community?
It is unfortunate that TW became necessary, but in light of the numerous lawsuits filed by the Schicker and Barrow organized activists, it became prudient to organize those of us who have the most to lose.
I would encourage all Los Osos property owners to join TW to help counter the obstructionists who are already trying to disrupt the County process. The CSD and their vocal activist obstructionism will not be working for the best interest of the entire community, inside the PZ and the surrounding area.
Contact Taxpayers Watch at:
eyeongovernment@sbcglobal.net
P.O. Box 6884 Los Osos, CA 93412
TW: You are paranoid. The property owners are not against the county or a sewer. The property owners, albeit a hodge-podge conglomeration, support the new board and the old board, and do not support obstructionists. Look, I voted for the recall and I voted for Joe Sparks. There is a new breed in town. So what? We haven't lived here that long. We want to see a project built. P.S. some of those water board staff do seem like snot nose kids. That doesn't mean I agree entirely with Mr. Cooper. I called the staff once and asked them some questions about the recall and they were kind of snotty with me as if I should know "everything" and I had only owned property for about a year and a half.
Anon 6:59:
Nope, not crapkiller. And not angry. Just embarrassed of the actions of the obstructionists in this community. And sorry my language offends you. Obviously you don't have much contact with the vocal obstrucionists in this community. If you did, I'm sure your threshold of "offense" would be be lowered considerably.
You write here constantly as the poor victumized Los Ososan, but like many here you never, ever take responsibility for your actions. Did you vote to form a CSD? The Solutions Group? Did you support the recall? Did you understand the warning issued by the RWQCB about stopping the project? Did you understand the ramifications with the SRF of stopping the project? Did you believe $100.00 per month, we're ready to go, we have a plan, we won't get fined, etc etc etc?
I live smack dab in the middle of the PZ. I'm a homewoner. I've always wanted a project here. I didn't vote for the recall. But I STILL take responsibility for polluting the bay. Your problem Anon 6:59 is you take responsibility for NOTHING, while blaming everyone else for Los Osos' problems. The water board. The state. The county. Taxpayers Watch. The Governor. Everyone. You and those like you have taken the role of poor pathetic victum to new heights. And it disgusts me.
And let me finish my rant by saying I personally know many, many great people in this community. On both sides of the fence. But the fringe Anon 6:59, it's the fringe that has dragged and continues to drag this community into the proverbial toilet. And you all know who they are. And with so many educated, smart people here, I wonder how we all have allowed ourselves to be held hostage by these people. And that maybe disgusts me more than anything.
We should all join together and IGNORE the obstructionists. The county knows who they are. The RWQCB knows who they are. I venture to guess the State Board also knows who the real obstructionists are. So, if we want to get this done, let's do it. Instead of constantly bringing this conflict up, just ignore it. Speak your mind. Don't make it personal like so many in LO do. Just do what's best for your home and your family. We all want the same thing! Admit it!
You are being somewhat naive when you say ignore the obstructionists.
They lied their way through a recall election and have continued to lie to the community all the way into bankruptcy. If you own property in Los Osos, you have paid taxes which have been thrown away by that CSD. Listen to Julie and Al and realize that those folks intend to create even more damage to the process of bringing a modern sewer into our part of the country. They do not care about your family or mine, they only want their own agendas. We can roll over and let them continue the big delay until the State has to move in or we can make our common voice heard by the County BOS and stop the obstruction here and now! Don't put up with their vocal protests, demand they stop obstructing and be willing to accept the County's recommendation. Your positive vote on the 219 is going to be extremely important!
I am not an obstructionist, but trust for the RWQCB we never be part of my quest for a project.
Thank God there are good people out there that were willing to support me with my randomly selected "hearing" with the RWQCB. While TW supported the RWQCB in this crucifixion, the CSD, Gail, and Shaunna provided essential support throughout this extremely stressful process. I seriously doubt that I would be alive today without that their support.
I know that there are people out there that think we (the 45) should have carried the entire financial burden ourselves. Why? I played no political role in LO prior to being hit with a proposed CDO. I did not receive disclosure of an illegal discharge upon purchase of my home. I was randomly selected to suffer this persecution.
And please remember that without the support these people provided, we would not have the documentation that now weighs so heavily on the minds of sitting Water Board, knowing that our constitutional rights were repeatedly violated. And our case is now heading to a real courtroom. I hope that the legacy of Los Osos is to prevent the Water Boards from ever again randomly targeting a small sample of a community for terrorization. And we were terrorized.
I am not an obstructionist, but trust for the RWQCB will never be part of my quest for a project.
Sorry for the typo
Vote yes on the 218, not the 219!
Opps Yes, I meant 218
The 45 should never have had to been put in a position of going into a hearing. You can thank this CSD for being directly responsible for even having tose hearings. Had they not lied about having some mystical alternative solution and had they not been so hasty to halt construction, they would have seen the consequences. You have been put through some very unnecessary times, but so have the rest of us! My 80's parents also live in the PZ and the stress on them has also taken it;s toll. I do damn Lisa and Julie for the damage they have done. We had a sewer which would be half constructed by now, but that was all thrown away by some lying obstructionists. I was never actively involved, I used to figure it would all sort itself out. But no it hasn't. The obstructionists are already trying to undermine the County efforts. I do not go to the various meetings that feature to local obstructionists, but I am active in meeting and talking with the authorities in the County, State and Federal Governments.
I would encourage you to also look to the authorities outside LO for a much more honest help. I don't trust anything that has been touched by this CSD and their followers.
Please don't meet privately with the RWQCB in the name of the community. Thirty years of backroom deals have resulted in personal gains and individual losses. Shipe and Bishop gained personally from their backroom deals, but the other 45 suffered.
Whoah...if anyone wants to see why some people are ...um...a little pissed off at Pandora Nash-Karner...go to Ron Crawford's website ASAP. This confirms my impression of her.
Lisa is not an obstructionist! Have you ever talked to her? She is an environmentally aware home owner that wants the best project for our community! I don't know about Julie but I can speak for Lisa's character.
Dear 7:23,
You have to stand corrected. You are blaming the wrong people. The State pulled the loan which stopped the project. They would not proceed until there was a 218 and Measure B pulled. Period. How can you be so thick headed?
I'd like you to tell me how I should take any responsibility for a sewer not going in for the last 30 years. Besides, we ARE victims in Los Osos. Victims of the government...the county...the CSD's...the RWQCB...developers...real estate agents...you know who you are...
Right on 9:23!
To anon 9:03 PM:
How did Shipe and Bishop gain personally from their backroom deals? Bishop was a fixture for fixture replacement with low flow fixtures to replace full flow fixtures. Seemed sensible to go along with this to me. Duggan was the only one to speak against it. "Screw your neighbor" Duggan, but he is a renter and has been obstructing all along. He sure has screwed Los Osos property owners.
So how did Shipe benefit?
If anyone benefitted at the CCRWQCB it was the property owners of Los Osos in the PZ. When Kieth Swanson got up and called the board "terrorists" for attempting to inforce the water law, he left a lasting impression on the board. While he defined "terrorist" from the dictionary, he really defined himself as an "obstructionist asshole". I wonder where Bud Sanford was? I wonder if he will fax the contractors in the future?
So how did Shipes benefit? Because he is on the TAC? Maybe from an education received from fellow members of the TAC.
By the way, can anyone put a monthly dollar figure on "affordable"? And what does "sustainable" mean?
To 9:42 (who spells like crapkiller):
Why don't you pull out a dictionary and look up the word sustainable. And about affordable --- try less than $400 a month for the big pipes that you're so keen on!!!
To 8PM,
Check this out and perhaps some should write to Jerry Brown, our Attorney General, for the abuse the RWQCB has heaped on the 45 CDO people and the rest of us. Below find his mission statement:
"It is the duty of the Attorney General to see that the laws of the
state are uniformly and adequately enforced (California Constitution,
Article V, Section 13.)"
and
"Mission Statement
It is our duty to serve our state and work honorably every day to
fulfill California's promise. The Attorney General and our Department's
employees provide leadership, information and education in partnership
with state and local governments and the people of California to:
* Enforce and apply all our laws fairly and impartially.
* Ensure justice, safety, and liberty for everyone.
* Encourage economic prosperity, equal opportunity and tolerance.
* Safeguard California's human, natural, and financial resources
for
this and future generations"
This would seem to mean that, in the best of all possible worlds, he
must take the side of whatever California citizens are in the right,
whether or not they happen to work for
State agencies.
Hopefully, that is what he is going to do with regard to Los Osos.
To 10:28 Pm Anon:
Since you have defined "affordable" as less thas $400 a month, I am sure the price will be considered! How about $350 a month as a compromise for step/steg out of town and the county owns your brand new septic tank and the easement to it.
Oh crimeny! The Triv blows it again!
Sunday editorial section has a glowing opinion about the Water Board and The breath of sanity that just descended with help from the County Board of Supervisors.
All good-good until the last paragraph:
"The next step in perusing a sewer is critical: Determining a design that best fits the community,
and selling that design to the residents so they will assess themselves to build it"
Of course as ANYONE that has followed this process (and I'm sure that is all of us on this blog) knows, THAT IS EXACTLY BACKWARDS!
Oh well, some things never change, some folks will fight any sewer and the Triv will never get it right. SIGH.
Not to mention they say the stars appear to be aligning for Los Osos. They've got to be kidding. No stars over Los Osos. Just dark clouds and ill winds. Always.
LO is so screwed up that no design or location will ever be selected.
The MTS at all costs, the No Sewer at any cost, and the just plain lunatics appear to be winning the war. Bring on the petitions, bring back the village clown and bullhorn. We will never see a sewer in LO as this circus continues.
As usual, the Tribune doesn't know what's going on. They are telling everyone that the county will pick a design and then we vote to be assessed or not. It goes like this, I think: We vote to assess ourselves, then vote on options we like or not, then the county will ultimately make a decision. Am I right?
A must read going on over at Sewerwatch! Be prepared to spend some time going over the antics of Ms. Nash-Karner in delicious detail.
Anon 12:08,
YES.
Where on earth did you get that information?
The Triv?
Bwa Ha Ha Ha!
Notice how the Tribune doesn't mention affordability!
To 10:18,
Who in the world are you talking about when you say, "no sewer" - I'd really like to have an answer.
You throw this around, and like many other things you say, it's just not true.
How would any other town like the kind of sewer bill that we're facing? There were many less expensive options, but the county refused to look at anything affordable, apparently so did the last CSD.
Mike Green:
The last I heard was: #1 we vote to assess ourselves for financing of "a" sewer project (could be the project with highest amount on the 218) #2 we have an advisory vote/survey #3 the BOS decides which project is selected (Bruce Gibson was asked if the majority voted for a particular project would the BOS go with that, and Mr. Gibson said no.)
If the county has changed the rules again, I like to know.
Has the county decided if the vacant lot owners get to vote on the 218 yet? This has been an on-going question.
I heard that the TAC is considering reccomending that the 218 and advisory vote are held at the same time. Does this make sense to anyone besides me?
The "No Sewer" folk(s?) is(are) the one(s) talking about our "unique" sand that "filters" all the nitrate loading from reaching the aquifiers. Something Lisa seems to believe in.
The County has not changed the rules although there are some(4 on the CSD) who would try to make the community think that.
Dear anon 1:05
"There were many less expensive options, but the county refused to look at anything affordable, apparently so did the last CSD."
I'm curious about this assertion. I'm not aware of the county refusing to look at anything. I'm following all the information and discussions and if this is what your concern is, could you please substantiate with written comment and submit it to the TAC so that it can be addressed.
I have also had conversations with past director Richard LeGros about different technologies as well as having talked to people involved with the solutions project and from what I've been able to piece together, cheaper wasn't better because it wasn't permittable for our community. I've also had some interesting discussions with folks involved with the hydrology and bay and it's complex!
I'm not as willing to just toss out the notion that these issues weren't examined. I understand the debate as to how thoroughly they were looked at and I understand the increased level of mistrust as the TriW project moved forward but refusing to address affordablity is a notion I don't entirely agree with. But then again, my bias lies in the fact that I don't look at the total project cost as the major factor. There are other issues in regards to the financing terms and the buydown of the project total cost through grants that may be available now and/or in the future. This will be a long process that we as a community need to be committed to and not let the issue just disappear when a project is decided on. That's when the extra leg work for affordable solutions begins.
I believe that there are many in our community with some great ideas about how to address the increased expenses of those on fixed incomes. It would be great to see a group come together and even establish either a "foundation" type of structure or other not for profit entity that can be applied to for supplemental support. Maybe even in conjunction with the CSD. Maybe it's not possible but it should be researched. That may too much of an extreme but its one idea to be put on the table. Additionally, depending on the project and the financing, I know Rob Shipe and I have both talked about the possibility of financing with 30 - 40 year terms. When I did some research on the Orange County bankruptcy and looked at other infrastructure development, I'm hopeful that some of these ideas come up in the fine screening discussions.
The privatization issue has come up and I have concerns with that because I believe that part of the bankruptcy recovery plan for the CSD is the potential revenue from the operation of a WWTF. If this system is privatized, we don't get to realize the income as well as have little say or control in regards to rates and fees.
Anyway, lets be careful about our accusations, of which I have made several too, and see if we can work with what is coming our way to take a look at and sift through. Patience isn't a virtue I was born with and I'm appreciating that I'm learning a little bit more and more each day of what it actually feels like - I know my kids are grateful!
One step at a time and let's focus on what lies ahead of us. We can't afford to get mired by the past but rather take our history and keep us wise.
Have a great day.
Sincerely,
Maria M. Kelly
So that's your answer? Lisa "seems to believe in" something? Two points: 1.Lisa wants a ponding system out of town, like Pandora's ponds but out of town where they would be allowed (if residents out there don't file suit, etc.) 2.No Sewer = Mr. Payne, Mr. Alabee, and a few others. At this point there are very few No Sewer people who are property owners. And don't say Julie is No Sewer...she is involved with the biggest developer around here...and he really likes development.
Very nice posting, Maria. Thank you for keeping the discussion civil and intelligent.
Just leave the CSD board out of the discussion. We've had enough CSD board members screw it up for years. Let the county and the TAC do their work!
Thanks Maria. On a day when Santa Margerita Ron Crawford delivered yet another of his classicly hateful, obsessive and twisted Pandora bashings, your insightful, calm, fair and above all solution-oriented posting is a breath of fresh air. Where Crawford represents everything that is pathetically bad in this community, you continue to be an appreciated voice of reason. And happy Mother's Day.
It takes many perspectives to put the whole story together. I appreciate both Maria's and Ron's participation.
I still say that the county allowed the developers to get away with building 1,100 homes without paying a dime towards infrastructure and are about to have us (PZ homeowners)to pay for a super sewer so they can develop AND pay to import water so they can build out to their heart's content. And they get away scot free.
I don't think that people in the community realize that when they vote for the 218 they are voting for development that we don't need paid for by you and me.
Dear Maria,
I don't know what I'm going to do with you. I know you have a lot to say, but couldn't you say it using several hundred less words? I mean, having a lot to say doesn't always equate with having a lot of meaningful stuff to say. And if you can't say it in fewer words, than I can only come to the conclusion that you don't have much that is meaningful to say because if you did you'd just say it. I admit that I haven't read your comments yet and I'm not going to because until you could eliminate all the trees and get to the clear communication, I'm going to have to delete you.
You really need to get a grip on reality or just move on to some other perfect community with homes on 10 acre parcels and Compost Toilets in every manufactured home. Open your eyes, we need to open LO to development inorder to have a tax base capable of providing the services we all want. Maybe you want to live in self sufficient splendor along the California coast with no neighbors or government to bother you, but that dream past some 150 years ago.
Perhaps the only universal solution is to have the Feds buy the "town" and then remove every home and septic tank as they turn Lost Osos into a nature preserve.
4:05 PM, May 13, 2007 Anonymous said... "I admit that I haven't read your comments yet and I'm not going to because until you could eliminate all the trees and get to the clear communication, I'm going to have to delete you."
What an idiot! You haven't read anything from an intelligent poster? and you think you have any censorship ability? YOU are just another wacko! Do us all a favor and delete yourself, head on over to the Ron Crapford bolg and see what worthless wordiness truly is.
To the same Anon at 4:11 & 4:16,
You say, stupidly: "Open your eyes, we need to open LO to development inorder to have a tax base capable of providing the services we all want.
My eyes are wide open, honey. No, we don't need LO open to development, you idiot. It's already developed. We have a tax base fully capable of providing the services we all want. You are nothing but a pimp for killing Los Osos.
If you think Maria is intelligent, then you think Richard LeGros is intelligent, then you think Gordon Hensley is intelligent, then you think Stan Gustafson is intelligent -- and they are and never wore intelliegent, and neither is Maria and neither are you. All they are is corrupt, convicted, biased, emotionally retarded pervs and cons held up to high ridicule by the court of public opinion.
I do hope Maria avoids the same fate and doesn't do the lemming dance. I invite her to come away from the side of darkness and come to the light.
Kumbaya...
Go Los Osos Go. Kubaya kids.....kumbaya....
If anyone thinks there's gonna be a sewer here in the near future, and anyone thinks their homes are gonna be worth more than the paper their mortgage is written on, read this thread today and guess again. I believe there are just enough organized obstructionists; and just enough out of town agitators like Racano and Crawford; and just enough revenge-bent "activists" like JuLisa Schacker; and just enough emotionally stunted "neighbors" like Anon 4:52 to bury this community and cost us all our homes.
Kumbaya Los Osos....kumbaya....
I agree 100% with you Anon 4:52!!!!
to 4:11,
Why do YOU think (and the county) that it's fair and/or okay for US to pay for the developers to develop?!? That's the question.
Ron Crawford is not an "obstructionist!" He's been following this for years and knows every detail about what has happened. Why can't you take that? What can't you understand about the RWQCB saying the ponds at TRIW are a no go and the then CSD should have given up that sight? The RWQCB said "no 30 acres of ponds upwind of your town." Instead of regrouping the then CSD INSISTED that was THE PLACE for a sewer. The community protested but to no avail. Now look where we are. Nope, Ron tells it like it was and thank god for it.
Maria! congrats and kudos on stepping up and getting registered!
This puts you head and shoulders above the toothless gnashing of the anons.
(almost all of which I ignore completely, unless they are polite)
Maybe you can tell me what the official Taxpayers Watch position was on the County Board of Supervisors letter to the Water Board?
I know they have written that they support the County process and I applaud them for it , but there have been questions asked about this topic.
If you don't know, no prob. I'm just curious.
By the way Great post!
Hmmmm, unless I missed something, I thought developers pay their fees and of course they add the infrastructure costs into the development costs. Last I heard was that profit wasn't a bad word. Is it that you don't want any development so that there would be no need for an infrastructure? If the development costs couldn't be recovered, there would be no development. Are you afraid of development, or just the uncontrolled development of the past? I would also ask if you know whether the population of California and the Central Coast is stable, declining or increasing?
You guys are giving too much credit to the activists. The property owners will pass the 218. Racano had his 15 minutes of fame in Los Osos. He's a has-been.
You are one to talk about revenge-bent activists! Stupid is as stupid does, Joyce.
My how the view changes;
Joyce, a revenge-bent activist? Julie, a revenge-bent activist?
We have a whole list of activists, which ones are the real revenge-bent activist? (hint - listen to the CSD)
I for one am glad for all of the activism. We are going to get an agreeable (for most) project soon. The county will do it if we let them. All of the turmoil has gotten us back to the county, who should help us that's for sure!
So many hands in the cookie jar, so much dirty laundry, so many reasons to seek revenge......where should I start?
Please don't start. We can't take it anymore.
Start and end with Pandora and Briggs.
That about covers it!
My favorite lying hefty weight revenge-bent activists remain Lisa and Julie!
My favorite has got to be Joyce "can't spell Blakesly" Albright! The queen of the revenge lawsuits! Let's get 'em personally! Hurt their families! She hates lawsuits but files them at the same time!
Whoah...okay Lisa is large but Julie is looking hot these days.
Not hot, Julie is FAT! Lisa is just plain ugly!
Maria,
You can't build a budget on hope and grants. There is no line item for "Hope & Grants." Your comments are quite fiscally irresponsible, as are many of the thoughtless, off-hand comments you make.
You simply choose to disregard the affordability issue, and it's clear to see between the lines that you are justifying the Tri-W project by extending the loan time and talking about forming a "foundation," a Sisters of Mercy for the Sewer Bill. That's all well and good, but that won't help Los Osos. This problem of affordability MUST be dealt with, and you keep showing your bias by announcing how little you care about it. Instead you pave the way for Tri-W.
You also admit to seeking counsel on sewer technology from Richard LeGross -- of all people! By the way, Richard, an out-of-work architect, also triples as a financial wizard, as exemplified by his failed dissolution attempt which has put Taxpayers Watch hopelessly in debt, and his getting booted off the bankruptcy panel for leaking a document online, then lying and denying it.
Maria, if this your guide through the Los Osos Sewer Maze, then you are a fool being led by a fool and a liar. You are seriously misinformed about so many things and misleading the community down the same crooked path as your devious predecessors.
Credibility is earned by people, not given to clones.
If the shoe fits, wear it. And admit it.
Hey Ann,
Isn't this where you need to step in and "sigh"! This is classic and end of the day comical!
I love the "dark side"/"light side" analogy! If only I could truly be a Jedi!
Thanks for the Mother's Day wishes!
Sincerely,
Maria M. Kelly
(Less than 50!)
to 6:07 PM,
The county? The county got us in this mess! It wasn't the turmoil of the people. Or the current CSD. Maybe Gail didn't have a plan, and maybe BWS and Wildan spent all the money, but to count on the county when they've screwed up over and over??
I've counted many lies told by the county (Paavo) and that's definitely not a great sign (Gibson tells it more like it is!) Paavo is also paving the way for the big- pipe-super-dupper-sized-mega-monster- sewer, and anyone who can't see it better open their eyes wider. i.e. why would the county hire Corollo again? .... hmmmmm .... could it be because they like big pipes???? And big, fat, expensive projects???? MWH to the rescue!!!!
Maybe Ron should write a book about Pandora! Ron should try to get an interview with her mom first. What a story, what a book!
To all the nay sayers: rather than nit-pick the County ad nauseum, propose a plan. A real plan, not another paper-napkin plan. There have been enough of those.
How will the plan be paid for? Who will manage the plan? Have you surveyed the property owners to see if they want yet another 'plan'. Enough is enough, we don't need more stinkin' plans based on nothing but innuendo and allusions or delusions. If you got a plan, put your money where your mouth is and rent out he SB center, and show it, lay it all out - otherwise it is just No Sewer crap, nothing more nothing less.
Amateur hour is over.
To 8:29,
You've got everything backwards! Amateur hour is right here and now. If the county or the RWQCB doesn't want to look at the technology of now and the future, it's amateur hour! ... plain & simple.
Hi Mike Green,
I forgot to respond to your post about the position of TW. I'm not entirely clear on that and only heard Joyce Albright's statement at BOS and then at the CSD meeting after the RWQCB hearings. I don't know of any exact "position" on the topic. I'm really not on the inside loop and just follow up with a phone call or see it in the paper with everyone else. I do get the "updates" that TW puts out and I check the CCLO and PZLDF websites as well to see what other community members are thinking. It's good to have them all online because you get a broader snapshot of the community.
I support the county's efforts and thought that the letter was well written and nicely laid out. My question, along with the RWCQB, is ongoing clarification of time lines or "benchmarks" of progress of the process.
Sorry, but that's my short answer!
Sincerely,
Maria M. Kelly
Ok then anon 8:34, I expect you to put your money where your mouth is, rent out the SB center, and state exactly what the technology, plan, finances, management, IN DETAIL are going to be for your 'so-called plan'.
Otherwise, show up on Tuesday next week and see a real PLAN in action, not fluff.
Won't hold my breath - Next!!!
Maria, Why the anon headliner? use your blogger account.
"Don't know" would have been fine.
As far as "benchmarks of progress"
What are they?
Below is what "Together" wrote on the Tribune's blog site ----- apparently the Tri-W people have yet again infiltrated the "affordable/sustainable side!"
..."Have a lot of new energy and also have a new mole that burrowing and passing on tidbits. Some people never learn. You should hear what they intend to do next...."
I wish "Together" would share her information on this blog.
Maria,
I must warn you, Mr. green is a master of logic.
answer carefully.
Hey Jon,
How are you doing?
Now the reason for my posting ...
Ron's recent blog entry is more oriented toward blaming someone for what's happened than toward helping us move forward to a solution. If you want to get involved in another round of the blame game, go read his opinion piece. I'll leave you with a question to think about while you read his screed ... even if Pandora to blame for every foul up before 2004, does it mean that Julie and Lisa's plan on moving the sewer, no "matter what it costs" is a good idea? I would argue that one shouldn't compound a mistake by an even bigger mistake, but Ron doesn't really grant me the premise that the recall and it's impact ... the bankruptcy ... was a mistake.
No matter ... if you're focused on moving forward, don't read Ron's piece ... it doesn't help us.
Sharkey! I am focused on moving foreword, But I loved Ron's blog,
And I don't think that was Jon, kinda creepy if you ask me.
I read everything and make up my own mind, I kind of think that is the lesson of Ron's blog, people that follow blindly that kind of "jedi mind control" have been a problem, I also believe that the failure of our "free press" has contributed greatly.
I saw Jon in the hardware store recently, he looked good, we talked fishing in Panama! I do miss him here, I wish he would come back, but each to their own.
I think the TW's position on the letter from the county to the Regional water board was clear enough by what Joyce Albright and Gordon Hensley's dad said at the BOS meeting. They didn't like the letter and didn't want it sent. That's their position, Maria Kelley. TW likes the terror just like it's been for the last year or so.
And, Maria, why did you leave the regional water board hearing to attend closed CSD session? Was that more important than you speaking at the hearing?
And by the way, Maria, you should look at some of these CSD and TAC meetings, when you're on camera and don't know it. You're seen cackling with Lynette and shouting at Al Barrow? It doesn't look like you're the sensible person you want to appear to be.
Maria,
When I asked you to leave the Dark Side for the Light, I was not referring to "Star Wars." I was referring to the darkness of ignorance and the light of true understanding. I was talking about the darkness of falseness and the light of the infallible truth. You can be a "Star" if you quit the "War" brought on by the misinformation you have embraced as the truth. You have so much to learn, and you have already learned so much you must un-learn to be open enough to even see the truth if it knocked at your door. Renounce Richard, Gordon, Joyce, and all those who have worked so hard to destroy Los Osos. Then and only then will you ever find your way home.
Mother Superior
Well Mike, now that you rephrase it that way (that people who "follow blindly that kind of 'jedi mind control' have been a problem") it sounds much more reasonable.
The problem is that all of Ron's examples are about how Pandora is bad and none of them have anything to do with those who have mindlessly followed the new group. Sure, $100/month sounds good but Ron doesn't seem to consider that the sort of lie that has damaged our community. After all, he's had over a year and a half to research that claim and write critical articles about those who would lie to the voters just to get elected.
The problem with Ron isn't so much that Ron believes that the Solutions Group was wrong or that they misled us ... the problem is that by his refusal to look into the wild-assed claims of the other side, he seems to be more of an apologist for whatever the post-recall board did than anything else. On any issue since 2005 that doesn't directly involve Pandora, Ron's comments are no better than a red herring, designed to distract our community from what really matters.
10:47 PM, May 13, 2007 Anonymous said...
"I think the TW's position on the letter from the county to the Regional water board was clear enough...."
If you had really listened, you would have realized they were saying that some timeline of benchmarks should be required. This is not said lightly as LO has a history of evading taking responsibility for halting the sewage being leeched daily into the soil and aquifiers. The County by not making a better effort back 20 to 30 years ago and continueing to issue building permits even though they knew (or strongly suspected) the density of septic tanks was the major contributor of nitrate in the drinking water, the people of Los Osos for trying to build an acceptible sewer and not being able to complete it, and the people of LO for halting the designed sewer. Los Osos has been it's own worst enemy! If no timely goals are set with some enforceable consequence, then given the history, another group of folks will rise up and halt everything once more.
If anything, the County should have made the letter stronger with a committment to an honest timeline. TW has not made a statement regarding the BOS letter. Joyce and Mr Hensley spoke their on their own, but so did quite a few others.
There is little comparison between the current and previous CSDs. The previous CSD tried to ram a project down our throats that the majority of the community did not want, and when threatened with recall, continued to attempt to make the costs of stopping the project insurmountable. The current CSD tried to listen to the people’s wishes and find a way to change the project. With the power Briggs and Pandora (government, marketing, and the press) working against them, it was a huge task. I believe they underestimated the enormous influence that Pandora and Briggs. These two were able to effectively portray all people in Los Osos as Anti-Sewer. I state this as fact because during this period I ran into quite a few people water employees in other areas of California who stated this “fact” when the learned where I lived. The new CSD did not have a chance at an easy switch. They continued to try, not believing that this could happen in our country. The influence of Bush…….doubt the it could have happened this way in another time.
Maria sez:"Hey Ann,
Isn't this where you need to step in and "sigh"! This is classic and end of the day comical!"
Sigh. SIGH. Sad. Some wit once said that we never gt out of high school. Some of the comments seem to indicate grammar school.
Will bounce over to Ron's latest posting. If I may be so bold, the key to Ron's history lessons that apparently so many keep overlooking is this: Government action on a huge infrastructure project like a community sewer is like laying track -- each step is linked tighly to the previous step. Unlike building a dirt path scraped out with a road grader that can be swooped round obstacles relatively easy as they pop up, track is linked and can only bend in tiny increments. If you make a mistake with your first rail, you're committed.
In addition, governments and oversight agencies are all geared to run one way -- like a train with no reverse. Make one mistake early on and it soon becomes impossible -- without a wreck -- to change directions. Ron's history lesson shows that there were several key points along this path where the original "lie," if you want to call it that, COULD have been undone and the direction changed. But that didn't happen due to the failure of the oversight regulators and county newspaper of record as media watchdog, who didn't bother to do their jobs (RWQCB, County Planning, BOS, Coastal Commission, Tribune), and the original CSD that failed at several points to take the steps necessary to change that track. Instead, the original CSD ignored the red flags and the regulators took the easy way out and pushed the train down the faulty track, with a shrug and a "Not my problem, if the elected officials of Los Osos want this sewer plant and its unsecured loan in the middle of their town, far be it from me to interfere."
That "history lesson" shouldn't be seen as "blame," as Inlet wants it to be, but needs to be seen as an indication as to WHAT went wrong, WHEN it went wrong, and HOW it went wrong, WHO helped it stay wrong and the rest is train-wreck history.
And, lest history repeat itself, it's important that the public NOW get involved and pay attention to those key points so they ensure the track is heading in the way they want it to head -- no bait and switchy -- which means not falling asleep at the wheel in hopes that The Other Guy will take care of matters. This time everyone needs to be in the loop.
Excuse me Ann ...
How do you get off saying that I want the history lesson to be seen as blame?
First off, it is not a history lesson so much as an interpretation of historical events from the point of view of one individual who only sees fault with folks named Pandora but refuses to even look at the actions of people named Julie. It's like asking us to trust as fact the Ken Starr opinion about the Clinton presidency ... sure there are some significant facts there, but all the interpretation is very debatable at best.
Even so, Ann, the fact is that many will view it as blame ... to deny this is to deny the nature of Los Osos sewer history. Do we not tend to blame each other for the bad things that happen?
So then, Ann ... how is this "history lesson" which only discusses negative examples about the Solutions Group but refuses to consider other questionable actions (like promising a $100/month sewer and the hiring of McClendon, WilDan and BWS) one which will help us? I would submit that if Ron had some balance (or fairness, for that matter) it would be a whole lot closer to something that would benefit us.
Lastly ... I find it interesting that you're now telling people what I want them to believe when you're the one who keeps pitching a fit when you feel that my understanding of your commentaries has missed some of the nuance you claim to have. If you're going to complain about others putting words in your mouth you ought not to do it yourself.
HIDE YOUR CHILDREN...
To 6:56AM,
I must not have been listening. That's not what I heard Gordon Hensley's dad say...
To SharkInlet,
We have some very greedy people in Los Osos. Pandora and Julie, ... who has done the most harm? Which one is worse? Hmmmmm .....each with a strong agenda, each out to make a lot of $$ for themselves....each cares only about #1
OK Ann,
"That "history lesson" shouldn't be seen as "blame," as Inlet wants it to be, but needs to be seen as an indication as to WHAT went wrong, WHEN it went wrong, and HOW it went wrong, WHO helped it stay wrong and the rest is train-wreck history."
When can we see your history of after the "new" board was in place? You don't want blame - so just what happened exactly? Just the WHO helped it stay wrong will do. :-)
"The previous CSD tried to ram a project down our throats that the majority of the community did not want…" anon 7:01
Ram? Maybe Lisa and Julie and their supporters felt that way, but not the property owners.
Gee anon, it was a pretty small majority - dont'cha think the lie of the cost being $100/month had SOMETHING to do with that vote which was accomplished by allowing renters to cast a ballot?
You really should consider that many people were just fine with Tri-W - the opposition wasn't that huge. Bet Tri-W would be halfway built by now if we knew what was coming after the recall. I feel so sad for the CDO 45 and all the pain that they went through. That's one of the things that stopping the project brought us.
DRAW THE CURTAINS...!
Anon sez:'When can we see your history of after the "new" board was in place? You don't want blame - so just what happened exactly? Just the WHO helped it stay wrong will do. :-)"
I've said it once, will say it again, I want to be a fly on the wall during the Breach of Contract lawsuit and the lawsuit filed against WMH. I'm willing to bet there will be some very interesting WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN & WHY's in there.
Anonyous sez:"You really should consider that many people were just fine with Tri-W - the opposition wasn't that huge. Bet Tri-W would be halfway built by now if we knew what was coming after the recall. I feel so sad for the CDO 45 and all the pain that they went through. That's one of the things that stopping the project brought us."
I have considered it. I've asked, why didn't the old CSD vote hold a 218 vote for the additional SRF loan increases, which would also have been a "referrundum" on the Tri W project? The requests to do exactly that (and the lawsuit filed to force the CSD to do that,) were in place, what? a year before the recall? Why didn't the RWQCB, the SWB and the old CSD pragmatically announce they would stop the TimeLine clock (they'd done that before, several times if memory serves) for enough time to hold that vote? The community would then have had their say and since the vote was close, for all anybody knows, the commmunity might have said, Ah, heck, what the hell, and voted to go forward with Tri W. Then everyone could go home, work could have started, and that would have been that. But that didn't happen, so that's another question that goes begging.
Ann,
Your recent reply to the pointed question of who screwed stuff up since the recall is very slippery. Not only did you not answer the question at all, you managed to deftly suggest that the problems since the recall were due to things that happened beforehand.
Essentially you are saying that there have been no problems since the recall, only the events that were pre-ordained by the actions of the earlier board.
If that was the case, why the hell did the recall candidates run in the first place. If they would be powerless to do anything at all, why put our town thru the torture?
Has it even crossed your mind that the post-recall board could have made different choices than they did? Do you think that other choices would have any impact on what happened?
LOCK YOUR DOORS AND STAY AWAY FROM THE WINDOWS...!
AND YOUR TOILETS. LOOK BEFORE YOU SIT.....
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