Seventy Six Trombones Led The Big Parade . . .
Over at www.newtimesslo.com, reporter Colin Rigley's story ("Inventor, business partner abandon Reclamator") also asks the following question, "Does the system still stand a chance?"
Read it and draw your own conclusions. And as with all things sewerish and Los Ososish, Hide the Silverware, and . . . Stay Tuned.
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33 comments:
Stay tuned indeed...
There are several statements written by Colin which are not "factual".
I have been purposefully and intentionally quiet.
Over the next few months more information will become available to help those seeking a water pollution solution in Los Osos/Baywood Park.
In waiting, the citizens of LO/BP have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
It seems sometimes that the facts get in the way of a good story.
Water pollution is no game.
A wrong decision will be devastating.
Let's be VERY clear about the Reclamator installation in the Bay Ridge Estate...
The Reclamator is discharging into the established subdivision sewage collection system. The Reclamator is NOT installed as a replacement to a septic tank...!!!
The Reclamator is NOT REQUIRED in the subdivision sewage collection system...!!!!
The Reclamator is only acting like an unnecessary HOLDING TANK in a conventional gravity sewage collection system...!!!!!
LOL.... and soon Tom intends to sue the LOCSD... My Gawd, the snake oil is being generously spread around this time...
“They’re like sorry losers,” he says of the public agencies that criticize him. “They’re like Mark Low.”
Mike sez;
"The Reclamator is NOT installed as a replacement to a septic tank...!!! "
....then he sez;
"The Reclamator is only acting like an unnecessary HOLDING TANK in a conventional gravity sewage collection system...!!!!! "
Lot's of statements that it doesn't work and there hasn't been proven that it works.
Where's the proof that it DOESN'T?
Mike sez"The Reclamator is discharging into the established subdivision sewage collection system. The Reclamator is NOT installed as a replacement to a septic tank...!!!"
Even if the Reclamator had been installed as a replacement for a septic tank, it still would have gotten it's permit from the county. Installing septic tanks that meet septic tank requirements (no leaks, "discharge" to an approved leach field or pit, the installation inspected & etc.) are perfectly "legal" from the county's point of view in the PZ . . . UNTIL 2011 and/or until the sewer project is finished and the homeowner is scheduled to hook up. After that time, the Regional Board will do whatever they wish to do and then and only then will we see what "discharge" means. Meanwhile, the county says it'll still collect on it's assessment fees from the homeowner no matter what. The net result is whoever installs a Reclamator will end up in court somewhere along the line. Unless one of Mr. Murphy's court cases makes it before a judge before then. Or the county vets the Reclamator along with all the other systems and finds it comes out on top and is willing to take on Roger Briggs in court to force him to define "discharge" and etc. Or . . .
Mr Lowe sez"Water pollution is no game.
A wrong decision will be devastating."
Uh, ya think? Well, Los Osos has been there. Done that. And there's always the possibility of ending up with another "devastation" if the good folks take their eyes off the balls in play.
You missed the point Ann... the experimental test Reclamator was NOT installed in a true test application... Bay Ridge has a complete sewer system with no septic tanks... If that is the clean base laboritory situation, then there must be some very specific background data prior to the installation...
So unless there is some rather extensive instrumentation to provide data, from base data prior to installation to proof that drinking water isn't being run into the tank, to proof that the tank is indeed filtering waste, not just passing water... but, there has been no proof that the tank even has any instrumentation, let alone proof that it is doing anything...
If you watched the installation, you would have seen a rushed project which put a couple workers in serious danger of being buried...that was not a very professional installation which does make me question any instrumentation... I'm curious as to whether there was an Electric Permit issued...??? //and the lawyer standing by certainly did not give any credibility to this experimental test... If anything, it showed there is something we're not being told... I remain doubtful that the Reclamator is anything more than a septic tank with an air pump...
For all the taking of the Tri-W sytem to task, I wonder if this Reclamator will stand up to as much public scrutiny... Tom can swear on a stack of Bibles that this system is the absolute end of our worries, but until real proof is put out for us to review, he's only acting like a snakoil sales man, all noise, not proof...
F4, a new blogger writes;Where's the proof that it DOESN'T?
The absence of proof that it works is proof that it doesn't.
That system has been in place since early March, 2008.
Show me the data, from that system.
Sorry Chum... the burden of PROOF is on you...!!!!
You have shown nothing to indicate your system works...!!!! With the reluctance to provide any sort of verifiable proof, it would seem we would need a statement from the jurisdictional government agency enforcing the Clean Water standards and acts before accepting the sales pitch as anything other than any other advertisment... Both GE and Siemens have products and services which might work equally or better... but please continue the advertizing charade or simply provide proof to the RWQCB that your device/system/service actually does as advertised...
I'm all in favor of a better system, but we've seen a number of "best" systems, none of which have made it into the ground yet...!!!
Alias "Mike" misses the point over and over again because he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about, only that he hates the Reclamator and loves gravity.
I'm no fan of Murphy, but no fan of "Mike" either, since neither is honest and unbiased, and both gleefully produce clouds of misinformation and hyperbole to skew the debate.
Ignorance is bliss, except when it's your neighbor's stupidity that's dragging you and the rest of the community down with him.
"Mike's" comments bear the rabid bite marks of Taxpayers Watch, which wants gravity for their personal profit, certainly not for the community good.
While I wish Murphy a speedy exit for his gross misrepresentations, I wish the same for Legros-Hensley-Kelly-Tornatsky for the very same reasons.
Look what Taxpayers Watch has given us by way of larceny, lies and litigation, and what Murphy has wrought in that same vein, and you realize that a far better solution for the plague of these twin parasites upon the community would be Murphy duking it out with LeGros at Tri-W ... selling tickets and donating the proceeds to a homeowner sewer relief fund ... and may the best of the worst win!
Of course, the real win-win for the community would be them knocking out each other.
NO, the real win-win will be when the sewer (any approved, permitted and funded sewer) is operational...
So where is your "PLAN" howie..???
...and you are damn right, I do support TaxPayers Watch because they had the courage to ask that this CSD be held accountable...!!!
The pre-recall Board did have a project, funded and begun... the post-recall Board filed Bankruptcy and paid their personal lawyers with community tax dollars... Oh yes it will be fun starting October 6....!!!!
Mike seZ:"You missed the point Ann... the experimental test Reclamator was NOT installed in a true test application... Bay Ridge has a complete sewer system with no septic tanks..."
Don't think I missed anything, Mike. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Bayridge estates collection system go to a very, very large community "septic tank" with, if memory serves, two leach fields (they can rest one and switch between the two." Monarch Grove has an actual "sewage treatment-type" self contained system. But not Bayridge Estates. Which is why they've been fined gazilliions by the RWQCB (part of the ACL suit)
Gee Ann, then you understand our frustration that 30 years ago when we bought our home as Bayridge was beng constructed, we were told that a sewer was about to be built... 27 years later a legally designed, and with every approved permit required by law, system was begun...and then with one poorly thought out decision, all those years were thrown out the window... Now we're waiting 2 more years to begin construction once again...
We do not believe there is some temporary septic tank solution, this community needs a sewer with a water treatment facility, it may even need a desalization plant, but we can not continue to delay a community sewer.
The design of the Tri-W MBR treatment facility would have done perfectly well... The beef was that some individuals didn't like the thought of a treatment plant in the "center of town"... Hell Ann, Los Osos is not a "town" and there sure isn't a "center"... I don't care if that ruffles anyones feathers... I'm tired of the attempts by the handfull of ego-vironmentalists to halt any progress to bringing in a sewer...
You bet, Bayridge has been sitting with a commpleted sewage collection system and it makes absolutely no sense to dig up every yard to put in a damn septic tank...and yes, a Reclamator is just a septic tank with an air pump and no proof that it will work, much less last 30 more years...
I for one am very pleased that the County has gotten back on board and is proceeding... I would not be surprised to see the Tri-W site as well as the Borderson site to be used in the final design...
After all these derisive years, I sure would be upset if a Jeff Edwards were now allowed to develope the properties into commercial and residential subdivisions...and you know he would like to do just that...
Please tell me Ann, "IF" any of the amounts Fined have ever been paid...??? Have the Fines been forgiven or done away with...???
Do you think this CSD would have ever built any sewer within the boundary of the District...???
"You are damn right, I do support TaxPayers Watch because they had the courage..."
Courage???
It takes no courage to blow up a town, just a dirty dozen selfish saboteurs out to profit on the misery of the community.
Richard Legros
Gordon Hensley
Maria Kelly
Sean Kelly
Lou Tornatzky
Lynette Tornatzky
Joe Sparks
Hank Waterworth
Joyce Albright
TAXPAYERS WATCH -- "PROFITS BEFORE PEOPLE."
And we all pay the price.
...and you are such a wonderful community leader...??? No, you are simply an unelected loud mouth bully with your head in your ass...!!!
Some common sense on display from Garamendi…From today's Tribune http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/story/428538.html
“We cannot green our campuses based on state financing,” said Garamendi, acknowledging the state’s current budget crisis. “There’s just too much to do, and the state revenues won’t be there.’’
The solution, he said, “lies in public-private partnerships” that bring government and industry together to promote sustainability.
Mike, too bad you and the other Bay Ridge Estate decentralized/cluster users didn't take action when the CSD received a CDO November 1999 for that cluster septic tank. Waiting for the government hasn’t really paid off for you folks. Think Founding Fathers here.
There was wonderful technology available then that has been much improved today which can be put into place in those clustered sites with tanks. They include packaged plants which are odorless, efficient, economical and easy to operate and will denitrify to below 7 mg/L.
There is no need for Bayridge Estates to pay for a leaky energy intensive delivery system to ship your waste to town or elsewhere. That is another stupid, unnecessary and unsustainable activity. The same odorless, efficient, economical and easy to operate that will denitrify to below 7 mg/L technology was submitted.
Don't flush and forget. Don't waste your water...By the way how many of you have slowed your consumption by not using 1.6-3.5 gallons to eliminate 8/12 ounces of urine.
If it is yellow let it mellow...which is a free green LEED activity.
New Times > "Low says the system has not been adequately tested, with only a handful of controlled samples used as evidence that it works.
Dang, talking to a wall really does make the wall smarter! Go figure.
ShedHead replied > "There are several statements written by Colin which are not "factual".
I do so hope your new insight regarding testing is one of the factual statements.
ShedHead also said > "The absence of proof that it works is proof that it doesn't."
Wow. Can I say amazing? Please Mark, how did you finally come to this perspective? You were sooooo adament, for soooo long, that test samples as proof were not necessary. This seems a huge 'change' in your thinking. This truly must be the season of change.
ShedHead > ".... but now, Tom seems more interested in litigation than he is in sanitation."
Wow again. Welcome to the land of the thinking. But I gotta ask, what have you done with the other Mark?
> "I have been purposefully and intentionally quiet."
This proves there are two Marks. While I appreciate the new Mark I fear for the old Mark.
New Times > "Murphy’s former partner, Mark Low, got fed up and left. After his departure in late May, Low started sending a string of e-mails to environmental bureaucrats, politicians, and reporters that poke holes in the Reclamator’s effectiveness, and Murphy’s business model."
If this is true would you mind sharing some of these here - or better yet - on your own blog ? You haven't posted there since February but it sure seems as if you now have some good content to publish. TIA.
Mike said..."
Gee Ann, then you understand our frustration that 30 years ago when we bought our home as Bayridge was beng constructed, we were told that a sewer was about to be built... 27 years later a legally designed, and with every approved permit required by law, system was begun...and then with one poorly thought out decision, all those years were thrown out the window... Now we're waiting 2 more years to begin construction once again...
We do not believe there is some temporary septic tank solution, this community needs a sewer with a water treatment facility, it may even need a desalization plant, but we can not continue to delay a community sewer."
Ann Sez: Who is "delaying" the community sewer? All I see is the county chugging right ahead.
"Mike sez:" The design of the Tri-W MBR treatment facility would have done perfectly well... The beef was that some individuals didn't like the thought of a treatment plant in the "center of town"... Hell Ann, Los Osos is not a "town" and there sure isn't a "center"... I don't care if that ruffles anyones feathers... I'm tired of the attempts by the handfull of ego-vironmentalists to halt any progress to bringing in a sewer..."
Ann Sez:" Some individuals? Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but a majority of people voted both for the recall and the Measure B. Not simply "some" individuals.
Mike sez:" You bet, Bayridge has been sitting with a commpleted sewage collection system and it makes absolutely no sense to dig up every yard to put in a damn septic tank...and yes, a Reclamator is just a septic tank with an air pump and no proof that it will work, much less last 30 more years..."
Ann sez:"Once again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the Ripley Plan/ STEP Plan is there would be no need to install individual septic tanks at Bayridge Estates (and Vista Del Oro), Simply install a new, properly sized community tank (like is there now) then hook up to the STEP piping to take away the settage. If the system selected is gravity, they'd remove the tank and hook up to the mains, I presume, since the individual collection system is already in place.
Mike sez:"I for one am very pleased that the County has gotten back on board and is proceeding... I would not be surprised to see the Tri-W site as well as the Borderson site to be used in the final design..."
Ann sez" I thought you were railing against "delays."
Mike sez:" After all these derisive years, I sure would be upset if a Jeff Edwards were now allowed to develope the properties into commercial and residential subdivisions...and you know he would like to do just that..."
Ann sez:"Uh, unless the whole of Tri-W is used for a sewer treatment plant, then something will be done to it. Sold? Developed? Bought by the county for a park, minus the sewer plant?" So why wouldn't it be developed into subdivisions? So far as i know, the property next to it is ready to roll, once the sewer is hooked up."
Mike sez:"Please tell me Ann, "IF" any of the amounts Fined have ever been paid...??? Have the Fines been forgiven or done away with...???"
Ann sez:" That's part of what PZLDF will find out and the CSD is, to my knowledge, still engaged in. The case is, I think, in limbo, but who knows when that will change. It's also highly likely some "deal" can be struck to fold in fines to make it look like it's part of the SRF loans & etc. I don't think the State Water Board want's the breach of contract lawsuit to proceed. Might uncover too many worms. So, wonder if they'll try to bury the whole thing in a new SRF loan and cut deals to pretend a whole lot of stuff never happened. We'll see."
Mike sez:"Do you think this CSD would have ever built any sewer within the boundary of the District...???"
Ann sez:"Uh, once again, the voters voted for a sewer plant outside of town, didn't they? The irony here is IF the first CSD had done what I suggested they do long ago and presented two or three scenarios with complete prices then let the homeowners vote on which one they wanted to buy -- in town, STEP, Gravity, Out of Town, Step, Gravity, etc. -- then none of this would have happened. Sadly, as Paavo noted a couple of years ago (and he should know because he was the CSD's first GM) the CSD didn't have the resources to do that. And, we know, they didn't have the courage to admit they couldn't do that (or, as Ron Crawford's timeline shows, had been bamboozled into the non-existent "overwhelming community value" of having a sewer in a public park & etc.) And, we also know a whole lot of tar-baby stuff then went down as the overwhelming community value train wreck headed for the cliff. Alas."
Watershed Mark sez:"There was wonderful technology available then that has been much improved today which can be put into place in those clustered sites with tanks. They include packaged plants which are odorless, efficient, economical and easy to operate and will denitrify to below 7 mg/L."
Question then, for the County and the community. Will Briggs allow Bayridge Estates and Vista del Oro to install one of these (Orenco? Pio Pico? ) package deals on the site of the present largecommunity tanks & leach field? If so, how does that cost compare? And what would happen to the "cleaner" water? It still would have to be disposed of, which means laying a return pipe? Or could they re-join it to the rest of the community's "return" disposal water pipe? Or "dischaerge it right into the original leach field (since it presumably meets the 7mgl standard that the RWQCB claims is O.K.?
Gee Ann, you never answered my question for July 20; a question that relates to your latest post; as follows:
"Ann,
You Wrote :
"The list goes on and on. And on. From day one wherein the RWQCB made a "finding" of nitrates, drew up a "prohibiton zone" that to this day makes no scientific sense and passed Resolution 83-13 followed weirdly by 83-12 (I see everything backwards!)"
Response:
Then why do you care about what type of waste water project LO builds?....as you have for, oh, just about forever. By your 'trainwreck'-of-thought the sewer is not needed for you see fault with the basis of the regulatory decision made by the RWQCB back in 1983!
You blather on...and on... about STEP v STEG v Gravity; Ponds v other sewage treatments; this Site v that Site, this 'Process' v that (or your) 'Process' when your CORE belief is that a sewer is not needed or wanted?"
Thanks,
-R
This is my statement regarding the system located at 1408 Las Encinas:
New Times > "Low says the system has not been adequately tested, with only a handful of controlled samples used as evidence that it works.“
This is my statement regarding the system located at 1408 Las Encinas:
.... but now, Tom seems more interested in litigation than he is in sanitation."
These statements are in regards to the system located at 1408 Las Encinas:
The absence of proof that it works is proof that it doesn't. That system has been in place since early March, 2008. Show me the data, from that system.
Please Mark, how did you finally come to this perspective?
When certain important events occurred with the system located at 1408 Las Encinas, late April/early May 2008.
These statements are opinion, not fact:
New Times > "Murphy’s former partner, Mark Low, got fed up and left. After his departure in late May, Low started sending a string of e-mails to environmental bureaucrats, politicians, and reporters that poke holes in the Reclamator’s effectiveness, and Murphy’s business model."
I removed several pieces from my blog last week in preparation of my future efforts.
On another note:
When you consider that the Men's Resort(it's a joke folks) treatment facility designed by the county’s current consulting engineer, is being fined for not meeting design criteria/treatment standards, it makes a good case for the use of better treatment technology which Carollo is currently ignoring. This may prove to be a fatal flaw in the sewerage study process given the EIR aspects of the process.
When one state agency fines another state agency for failing to comply with standards using a process approved by the approving/enforcement state agency, the taxpayerfoots the billand the citizens environment is polluted.
Fines don’t prevent pollution, technology does.
"Fines don’t prevent pollution, technology does."
You are absolutely correct. What fines do is put polluters on notice that further dealys will not be tolerated.
If the RWQCB had fined the County back in 1988 or in 1991 we would have a gravity collection system off Turri Road that costs $35 a month.
There would have been no Solution Group, no CSD, no CCLO, no CASE, no Taxpayer's Watch, no Wildan, no Burke, Williams & Sorensen, no lawsuits and no splintered community.
Hindsight is so depressing.
Yes, wm, you are right, "…technology does" - when it is backed up by years of testing. You don't have but 6 months worth, under circumstances you hide from us. You are still batting a fat big zero as far as LO is concerned.
The county's consulting engineer used designs/technologies which have been studied/tested for years (maybe decades), in the Men's Resort Facility. The WB approved it.
That system, just a few years old is being fined, by the WB, for polluting/failing.
Testing and Fines didn't prevent pollution. "Better" Technology will.
If a gravity system had been built in 1988 using technology of that day, you would not be in the "world visionary" position, you all find yourselves, today.
"There would have been no Solution Group, no CSD, no CCLO, no CASE, no Taxpayer's Watch, no Wildan, no Burke, Williams & Sorensen, no lawsuits and no splintered community."
Oh yeah - I forgot one. There would be no Reclamator.
Realistic1 said...
"What fines do is put polluters on notice that further dealys will not be tolerated.”
What is the incentive for a municipality or state agency to cease polluting when the fines are paid by taxpayers, as is the case at the Men’s Resort or any other failing municipal treatment plant?
ws mark, the last failure at the Men's Colony was due to failure of a NEW piece of machinery, not the sort of technology used. The problem has been corrected and it is working fine now.
I guess the regulators want to encourage taxpayers to elect officials who will comply with the law, not circumvent it at every opportunity.
Realistic,
When regulators control the electorate you have a dictatorship.
Very slippery slope my friend, to be avoided at all costs.
We need elected officials to change law to reflect reality and sanity, unfortunately it don't always work.
I would still prefer it that way.
Hi Mike Green:
You are absolutely correct. It is a slippery slope. I'm just tired of voters who concentrate on sound bites instead of substance.
The outcome of the recall and Measure B was determined not by property owners, but by carpetbaggers with an agenda and no stake in the community. One of the major proponents was neither a property owner nor a legal resident of the community, yet he rabble roused and cajoled, playing on the fears of the elderly and low-income. He has now found another cause to "champion" and has (thankfully for us) turned his attention to another community in which he has no personal financial stake.
I'm all for smaller government, but I take issue with hit-and-run campaigners who wreak havoc and move on. We are all paying the price now (and will for the next 40 years).
Some day this will all be over and we can move on, but it will not be soon enough for any of us.
*pg-13 > Please Mark, how did you finally come to this perspective?
ShedHead > When certain important events occurred with the system located at 1408 Las Encinas, late April/early May 2008.
Uh, gee, what exactly happened at 1408 Las Encinas in late April / early May? Sounds interesting. If whatever happened changed your thinking - thinking that was so very entrenched - I wish you would share it. You've championed The Reclamator on this blog so vigorously for so long that it seems only fair to explain such a turn-about. You and I and the rest of the bloggers have spent far too many hours (read: months) chatting, discussing, arguing and, uh, name calling ;-) to alter your position so drastically without further explanation.
ShedHead > I removed several pieces from my blog last week in preparation of my future efforts.
If your blog describes what happened in late April / early May and gives reason for the change in your perspectives I look forward to reading them. Thanks.
ShedHead > Fines don’t prevent pollution, technology does.
Typical cute sound bite. But not on par with your many other short quotes. Technology does not necessarily solve anything. Or prevent pollution. There is good technology and there is bad technology. And whether something is good or bad is mostly a function of perspective. One never really knows whether new technology is going to work. Or whether it is going to be good or bad. Still, any new technology needs to be proven within some set of parameters to at least establish its credibility within those conditions. If it's not tested it MUST be considered broken. Or worse. All technology, by definition, will fail eventually. Not because the technology fails - although it often does - but because the performance parameters change. Hence failure. And of course there's always the human component! Nope, there's always a place for fines just to keep the system honest and up-to-date with changing parameters.
Real1 > Hindsight is so depressing.
I am soooooo depressed.
mike sez;
"...and you are damn right, I do support TaxPayers Watch because they had the courage to ask that this CSD be held accountable...!!!"
Is that why TW are suing the CSD as INDIVIDUALS? They acted as an agency, why aren't they suing them as the CSD ?
Can you say REVENGE, REA?
franc - they were acting outside the bounds of the office of Director when they made personal paybacks out of our District funds to law firms that did work for them personally.
Recovering almost $2 million in mis-appropriated tax revenues is not revenge, Franc.
It's our obligation to the taxpayers.
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