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Thursday, November 20, 2008

What I Learned At Last Night’s County EIR Sewer Report Meeting

1. The draft of the EIR report is at www.slocounty.ca.gov/PW/LOWWP.htm
2. Hard copies are at the library, at the SLO Public Works Office.
3. CD’s are available and you can watch on your computer or take it to a copy center for $90 and have a hard copy printed off, or just have them print off certain chapters, whatever.
4. The EIR report was complicated, a difficult job, the team worked very, very hard, the final document with all appendices will give you a hernia if you try to pick it up.
5. You have until Jan 30 to make written comments. Send them to:
Mark Hutchinson
Environemntal program Mgr.
SLO Dept Public Wroks
County Gov. Center, Room 207
SLO, CA 93408
Comments need to focus on the environment, be factual, support any opinions with facts. They’ll be answered in writing and both questions and replies will be added to the draft document as part of the record.
6. Four projects were picked and all of the parts of them are interchangeable, sorta like the game of Clue. Instead of Miss Scarlet in the library with a pipe wrench, you can have STEP/STEG with Oxidation Ditch at Branin property with Tonini sprayfields. Or Gravity with Falcultative ponds at Giacomazzi with Tonini sprayfields (the spray fields remain the same no matter what system is combined as does the disposal field at Broderson.)
7. At this point the environmentally “superior’ project was Gravity, facultative ponds with both treatment plant and spray fields all at Tonini. This was chosen for several reasons, including the isolated site, lowest greenhouse gas issues, can consolidate faculties, have room for large winter storage ponds, well located for future ag exchange & etc. All of which is considered in Chapter 7.
8.Economic viability is NOT part of the EIR. There is no environmental link between sewer/economy that impacts environment. Yes, an abandoned town with foreclosed houses sitting empty because people couldn’t pay the sewer bill and in today’s economy not enough people could afford to buy a house could result in some environment damage, but the link is too weak to be considered in this report. Plus, recent real estate figures show, SLO County isn’t in that bad a shape, foreclosure-wise. And there will likely be enough rich folks still able to move to the “Gold Coast” no matter what. So people supposedly referred to by at least one person in town as “the riff-raff”) driven out of Los Osos by the sewer price will be replaced by people who can more than afford the sewer price. Hence, no environmental issues.
9. The project will return enough water to stop salt water intrusion. Conservation measures (i.e. mandatory low flow everything) will help. However, the project will NOT deal with overall water issues since the county does NOT have control over the water. Water issues will also NOT be stuck on the backs of sewered PZ residents. Instead, all water purveyors will have to work together to solve water issues separate from wastewater issues, and charge water customers the rate necessary to solve water issues instead of hiding water in “sewage” and having the PZ residents pay for it all.
Furthermore, the plant and system is designed at a carrying capacity for proposed “ build out” so if anyone wants to build any more, they’ll have to come up with a new plant and new water, which effectively locks Los Osos into a kind of permanent moratorium, thereby jacking up the value of the homes already here since old Will Roger’s daddy had it right: Son, buy land, they ain’t making any more of it.
10. The “community survey” will be out in January but, alas, the community still won’t have any idea of the cost differences between STEP or gravity. They’ve been lumped into a vague “guestimate” right now of bout $250 a month. Because of the proposed design/build plans, the County is stuck with a chicken/egg problem: can’t get hard numbers before a project is identified; can’t really fairly pick a project until you get hard numbers. So the residents will still be buying a pig in a poke.
11. Which means, any “survey” asking whether you want STEP or Gravity will remain questionable because the county will have no way of knowing what the public’s “break point” is. That is: How much MORE are you willing to pay to get Plan X over Plan Y? $10 a month? How’s about $40 a month? $6.95? What? Without that number, it’s impossible to know just what the community wants to buy, unless the survey has a box asking: (1) Is overall cost (including OM&R) the MOST important issue for you? Yes- No. (2) Do you want the county to go with whatever turns out to be cheaper, either STEP or Gravity, doesn’t matter which, cheaper price is the key? Yes-No.
That question should get to the heart of the STEP/Gravity matter pretty quickly. (The last survey seemed to break pretty evenly between the two with a big chunk of people not bothering to even return the form, so we can assume they also don’t care one way or the other?
12. A question was raised whether Ag zoning at Tonini would be “broken” by putting in a wastewater treatment facility and, No, those are still allowed in Ag land. So there’s no fear of suddenly rezoning Tonini so there’d be a land rush to build high end homes next to the sewer plant. Plus, there is a mitigation cost which will come in the form of land-banking to mitigate for taking the spray fields out of a certain type of ag production, so those land-bank pieces could be formed into a greenbelt, joining the other greenbelts around Los Osos, further reducing the temptation to “sprawl.” (And further increasing the value of the homes already here.)
13. Walking into the auditorium of the Los Osos Middle School to listen to a County presentation for a sewer treatment system was an amazing experience of déjà vu: About 23 years ago, if memory serves, a cold Jan? Feb night, 1985, I was at an identical meeting, same place, same players, same issue. Told a friend last night that this community is beginning to feel like one of those medieval towns wherein town folks worked whole generations on building their town cathedral; father to son to grandson, season in, season out, chip-chip-chip, hammer, haul, dig, generation after generation, this community’s life-work. Instead of a stone cathedral, we’ll end up with an unnecessarily damaged community . . . . and a wastewater plant.

There will be further workshops and public input meetings, a presentation to the CSD, and plenty of opportunity to comment as The Process chugs along. Taxes won’t be collected until the Board “accepts” the project, guestimated sometime in 2009, maybe. Real costs remain up in the air. Design/build, value engineering, grants, SRF extendo-loan time and other such may help bring the cost down.

If costs on the new project get down to where Tri-W would have been (final, real-world costs) we’ll end up with a terrible, tragic irony. We could have had a sewer treatment plant out of town without nearly destroying the town to get it. Sad.

86 comments:

Watershed Mark said...

Sewertoons in Wonderland.

More tea?

Fortunatly, we have Mother Calhoun to help tell us the "truth".
Facts are stubborn things...

Shark Inlet said...

Ann,

Especially important are your points 10 and 11:

"10. ... the County is stuck with a chicken/egg problem: can’t get hard numbers before a project is identified; can’t really fairly pick a project until you get hard numbers. ...

11. Which means, any “survey” asking whether you want STEP or Gravity will remain questionable because the county will have no way of knowing what the public’s “break point” is. That is: How much MORE are you willing to pay to get Plan X over Plan Y? $10 a month? How’s about $40 a month? $6.95? What? Without that number, it’s impossible to know just what the community wants to buy, unless the survey has a box asking: (1) Is overall cost (including OM&R) the MOST important issue for you? Yes- No. (2) Do you want the county to go with whatever turns out to be cheaper, either STEP or Gravity, doesn’t matter which, cheaper price is the key? Yes-No.
That question should get to the heart of the STEP/Gravity matter pretty quickly. (The last survey seemed to break pretty evenly between the two with a big chunk of people not bothering to even return the form, so we can assume they also don’t care one way or the other?"



Ann ... it is my understanding that the survey they're putting together now is essentially what you want ... they're gonna ask people whether they are interested in paying more for this or that and if so, how much more.


Yes, these estimates are a bit squishy with a margin of error of perhaps as much as +/- 30%. What should we do? Make the choice ... based on the information available now ... that is likely to save us in the long run. If we continually say things like "well, option C might be cheaper so I refuse to go with option A" or "option D might be cheaper so we should spend more time and money studying options" we're only gonna delay things and increase the cost and increase pollution. I don't believe that this strategy has worked well thus far (witness the failures of the LOCSD to bring us something better or cheaper) and I don't believe it will work well in the future.


That is all to say ... provide input via the survey ... speak up at public meetings to sway the board of supervisors if there is an issue that is really important ... but trust that whatever the County will provide us will be cheaper in the long run than if the process is hijacked yet again by someone who has a better or cheaper plan.

Alon Perlman said...

6:58 PM, November 19, 2008
Blogger Alon Perlman said...

My private Q&A.
Hope you are having fun., Wish I could be there in the middle school with you.
1. Why is there not a watershed map showing the Tonini spray fields being out of the watershed, in the DEIR executive summery.
Answer. Question is moot, the spray fields evaporate the water. 842 Acre ft/year (AFY, See below) of groundwater replenishment are going to go literally up in fog, but don't worry. They are not gone forever. A small percentage will probably end up in Arizona.
2.What will be the Impact of removing 842 AFY on the Rate of Salt water intrusion.
A. You are assuming that there is a 1:1 replenishment (unknown, guesstimate 70% return). The removal of 500 AFY, will of course accelerate Salt water intrusion, but that will not start happening till 2014, and by 2024 the Ag exchange and purple pipe equivalents will have reduced the rate of salt water intrusion to only approx 10-20 % increase over 2008 levels. In other words, the salt water intrusion will not even reach the outskirts of Bakersfield.
3.Will the County Enact severe restrictions on Growth due to Water shortage Severity level IV?
A. That is a very good question. We are glad that you asked that question. This type of question demonstrates that we are receiving good questions from the community, and that our process is working as it should. Thank you for asking.
4. What should we do in the meanwhile?
A. provide funds for storm water catchment to recharge the basin and protect the bay; seek grant funding for rainwater harvesting and gray water reuse; support low impact development in all CSD-related projects and ordinances. And remember to turn your wrist clockwise, while saying the magic word (s_________y) to initiate swirling action, as you dump the 2 liter bottle of Avian glacier water into the toilet bowl.


The person formerly known as the other other LOCSD Candidate

This post has been re-re-moved by the author. Note the time stamps
The original posting was on a different location-"Another View, Another State"
All hail the trash can Icon

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

FACT IS mark, your sales pitch technology doesn't seem to be in the mix at all. Too bad, so sad.

"Cheaper plans" were when the Feds offered to pay 80% of the cost, way back when - and Los Osos turned it down. Cheaper doesn't seem to have a number attached to it, just an irrational NO used to catapult hopes into the future. This won't be cheaper, EVER. Cheaper is apparently a number that can only be seen in hindsight.

Realistic1 said...

We already have "terrible, tragic irony" Anne.

If the citizens of Los Osos had trusted the County in either the 80's or the 90's, we'd already have an out-of-town sewer at 1/3 the cost and we wouldn't have a water emergency....

If only...

Shark Inlet said...

It would also be worth reading Bo Cooper's letter to the Trib.

Way back in 2005 some folks complained about the cost of TriW. They told us that there had to be something cheaper and/or better. The "dreamers" responded by saying that delay would result in higher costs.

It appears that on this issue the dreamers were right.

If you look back to 1997-8, the same argument could be made, but the names are changed.

Even further back there was yet another plan which was torpedoed us unnecessary and too expensive.



Let's look carefully at the rhetoric being employed by all in this discussion to find out who is offering a real solution and who is just fussing about the only realistic solution we're being offered. As yourselves whether the result of past delays has been to the benefit of Los Osos or not.


I still think that I should have the option of paying fees according to the TriW fee schedule and folks who voted for the recall should have to make up the difference.

Realistic1 said...

"I still think that I should have the option of paying fees according to the TriW fee schedule and folks who voted for the recall should have to make up the difference."

Couldn't agree more, Shark.

But to hedge our bets, lets start a pool to see how long it takes for the next group of "better, faster, cheaper" CAVERs to torpedo the County's project this time.

Osos Change said...

Once again, Steve Rein is uninformed.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

osos change says:
"Once again, Steve Rein is uninformed."

What you have said in your post is meaningless. Why waste pixels on this? It just makes you look stupid.



I just wish the "Bo Coopers" of Los Osos would realize that continuing to pee into our drinking water is no longer an option. And that his SAME argument used to stop prior projects has only caused MORE economic hardship.

I think more along the lines of the perpetrators of stopping the last project should pay, way, way more than the voters. They KNEW they had NOTHING and insisted repeatedly that they did. That is a crime in my mind.

Shark Inlet said...

Once again the troll rears his ugly head.

It seems that this one only lives to whine and fuss about me. It is really sad that some people have an existence which is so ... um ... silly ... that they have no real benefit to humanity.

Osos Change said...

Steve Rein is uninformed because it was Pandora Nash-Karner who originally delayed the sewer. She and her cohorts created Measure K as a means of putting a sewer in town, not out-of-town as originally proposed by the County.

So when you see, "You delay, we pay" signs, think of the irony behind those signs.

And I'm sorry Steve, the only troll is you. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at your track record at VCU. At least I don't politicize and spew propaganda from a college campus -- which you're still doing -- as compensation for not putting a name behind my beliefs.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Haven't we all said that there was enough blame to go around?

From reading the new EIR, looks like in-town WOULD be the cheapest after all. Too late. Los Osos drank the $100 Kool-Aid and we can now deal with the consequences of that. More expensive and out of town.

Pandora wasn't involved in the sewer issue in 1970 something was she? That sewer AND the next one were stopped by the citizens of Los Osos, prior to Pandora. So maybe it is YOU that is uninformed as to sewer delay.

Well, this narrows down who YOU are osos change - someone who is in one of Shark's classes. Otherwise how could you possibly make such a statement? If not, you have no basis to say what you did and YOU LIE.

Shark Inlet said...

OsosChange,

You seem to have not read what I've recently posted here.

Simply put, to blame Pandora only and not the folks who stopped TriW and not the folks who stopped the sewer attempts before 1995 is duplicitous.

On other matters, I would suggest you read up on the definition of what it means to be a toll and I would say that you pretty much nothing about college and university life if you somehow think that speaking the truth should be banned at universities.

On the other hand, maybe it is a good thing that you are so willing to try to drag irrelevant issues into this discussion. It makes it clear that you don't care much about truth but are more interested in trying to distract others from the real issues.

How about we focus on the real issues, OsosChange?

Osos Change said...

You're not bringing up the real issues. You've been bringing up accounts that are more leaning toward fairy tales than actuality and then using your rhetoric as leverage to bastardize and slander members of the community.

You do this in hopes that people will not look up the actual history for themselves. You've been doing this song-and-dance routine since 2005 and I see you're clearly emulating the misdeeds you've done in 1997 at VCU. You're exhibiting extremely psychopathic behavior that transcends any "trolling" that I could do.

All trolls really do is to evoke a provocative response. Obviously, if I was really going for that, I would have been exasperated and worn myself out eons ago because you just give the same stoical responses over and over again like a lobbyist for a corporation or maybe even the county government.

You have been posting propaganda at the frequency that would make the Gestapo jealous.

I don't think that you should be banned for speaking the truth, but I believe that using your time on campus at Cal Poly to make slanderous statements is morally reprehensible that has justified grounds for your termination.

President Warren J. Baker of Cal Poly agrees with me. He had said to me a while back, "Our faculty have freedom of speech, but I think it's disheartening to have someone distribute innuendo during a time when their job is to educate, not to discriminate."

True, there are many professors who are activists. You would know. You lived in Berkeley at one time, but I haven't seen many professors who have used their anonymous moniker to make defamatory and delusional statements at the same magnitude as you. Unlike you, many of these activist professors lecture and speak openly about their convictions whereas you've hidden behind a nickname, have not once attended a LOCSD meeting, have not once attended a Board of Supervisors meeting, have not once talked about "real" issues in a "real" setting.

So let's talk about the real issues. One of the issues is that there are people who are using the Internet to create fiction and sew the seeds of hatred behind the red curtains and that has divided Los Osos for far too long.

Enough is enough, Steve.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

osos change, you are going into that creepy mode again. Knock it off!

You're just jealous because you don't think you are Shark's troll. You can't get under his skin the way ron has and it is just bugging the crap out of you, isn't it? Shark won't respond as your love/hate interest and your pain is splattered all over your last post. You didn't know you were so obvious, did you?

But hey, you are MY troll anyway, I have just given a provocative response to your creepy lies! I think you totally underestimate yourself oc, You are doing a better job than you think. Nice Warren Baker line, too! I'm sure we will find in your future postings that everyone of importance in SLO County will "agree" with you.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote:
“FACT IS mark, your sales pitch technology doesn't seem to be in the mix at all. Too bad, so sad.”

If technology which conserves energy, time, money and water through reclamation is ignored, FACT IS that is “too bad, so sad”.
So I’ll continue to promote that technology at every level, seen and unseen. You can bet on it. The fact you are “pleased” with paying more for less is even sadder.

"Cheaper plans" were when the Feds offered to pay 80% of the cost, way back when - and Los Osos turned it down. Cheaper doesn't seem to have a number attached to it, just an irrational NO used to catapult hopes into the future. This won't be cheaper, EVER. Cheaper is apparently a number that can only be seen in hindsight.

The Tri-W was $50/gal, today ECOfluid’s USBF is $7.4/gal for and uses a fraction of the energy.
You have a “cracked rear view” mirror. I suggest you keep your eyes forward, lest you run into a fixed object and hurt yourself, financially speaking.

Reclaiming water is superior to recycling it. Reading the Title 22 cut and paste in The Ripley Memo #6 I sent you will help you to understand the difference.
Why wouldn’t the SLOCO BOS want to select technology that reclaims instead of recycles at a fraction of the price?

That is the question…

Churadogs said...

Inlet sez:'If we continually say things like "well, option C might be cheaper so I refuse to go with option A" or "option D might be cheaper so we should spend more time and money studying options" we're only gonna delay things and increase the cost and increase pollution."

I don't get any sense that anything additonal will be "studied." It was made clear that all parts are interchangeable and the parts in the final report are the only ones on the table and the only ones that will ever be on the table. The only delay I can see is via a lawsuit of some kind, but I can't see that delaying anything for long since the county will continue work -- lots to design, paperwork, etc. before picking up a shovel) . The "voters" (survey-takers) will let their wishes be known (at least those who return their survey forms) and the BOS will consider those returned majority numbers and staff recommendations and then will make the final decision.

Alon sez:"seek grant funding for rainwater harvesting and gray water reuse;"

The CDOs forbig "discharge" of any kind after 2011. Greywater is "discharge." Will the RWQCB allow ANY greywater discharge in the PZ? Why would they? The pollution problem still remains --- "dirty" water gong into the ground and hence to either perched water, the bay or eventually the upper aquifer. Trace chemical elements (pharmaseuticals and soap/shampoo products etc)are already showing up in the water testing. Is there a a RWQCB approved trey-water cleaning system that's affordable as well as allowable? Don't know.That would get some water back into the ground.

Realistic1 sez:"80's or the 90's, we'd already have an out-of-town sewer at 1/3 the cost and we wouldn't have a water emergency...."

Actually, one original old plan would have discharged the water into Chorro creek and hence wouldn't have done diddley for the water shortage. And, the early plans were for an even higher build out so had the sewer been built in the 80's and built out boomed, the water shortage would have showed up even faster, requiring either State WAter or an incredibly expensive purple pipe, sewer upgrade, etc, so we'd still end up back in square one. In the 80' 90's salt water intrustion wasn't even on the map. The focus was entirely on sewer. Water shortage has only slowly come into focus. Even now it gets downplayed in the public mind. Is this town 100% lo flowed? I don't think so.

Inlet sez:" still think that I should have the option of paying fees according to the TriW fee schedule and folks who voted for the recall should have to make up the difference."

Before everyone has a cow, please take a deep breath. The $250 a month is a combo guestimate (gravity/step) and is before design/built work or value engineering or some hard, real numbers arrive. So, before everyone starts screeching about "affordability," we need to wait to find out just what numbers will end up being "real."

Toonces sez:"Shark won't respond as your love/hate interest and your pain is splattered all over your last post. You didn't know you were so obvious, did you?"

Uh, please remember the old observation that when you point a finger, three fingers are pointing back at you. Now sewer commenters are morphing into Freud? Well, Who knew?

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Ann wrote: I don't get any sense that anything additional will be "studied."

When information which was overlooked or ignored isn't studied the people will pay and in some cases: dearly.

It isn't simply about numbers on a page.
That is why the "hard" question I have been asking, should, nay MUST be answered on the record for everyone to see, forever.

The County “Crew” should be asking their “Consultant”.
Our posterity deserves nothing less from the SLOCO BOS before they vote.

Watershed Mark said...

Why would the SLCO BOS choose a lower quality technology that costs more when better technology which costs less is available?

This question cuts to “the heart of the matter”. That is why it is so very difficult to answer rationally and on the record.

“Instructive for all”, isn’t it.(?)

GVD said...

After we spend the millions of dollars on the sewer , how long until we see an improvement in the nitrate levels in the aquifer. ?? And what improvement can we expect ?

GetRealOsos said...

Sewertoons,

Lynette says, "I just wish the "Bo Coopers" of Los Osos would realize that continuing to pee into our drinking water is no longer an option. And that his SAME argument used to stop prior projects has only caused MORE economic hardship...."

Like I've said to Shark when HE SAYS this (pee in the water) is that you should really talk to your water company about this. If they are selling you piss water, they're in big trouble.

Also, don't put down Bo. He actually cares about people (unlike you) and everyone else who fought to move the sewer. It was a horrible project that had to be stopped. Don't know where you come from, but a sewer on the main street, on the way to Montana de Oro, on viewshed property simply won't help Los Osos increase property values and/or help any tourist business that Los Osos COULD have. Get real Lynette!

The people who cost us the most is Pandora and the County.

When the project was under the County, the taxpayers county wide would pay == but that clever little Pandora -- doing and selling Measure K to make the PZ homeowners alone pay for the sewer.

Lynette, quit the crap.

Just thank Pandora.

GetRealOsos said...

Rein,

You simply amaze me.

You blog year after year, defending the recalled board, the Tri-W project, Pandora, etc. every single day, morning till night.

I still say that you live in Monarch Grove and are NOT bound to the same costs that the PZ will have -- that would include the lateral hook-up, streets torn up for years, fines, repairs, etc.

If you care so much that you have to blog 24/7 for years, then let me ask you WHY YOU'VE NEVER SHOWN UP AT ANY CSD MEETING OR ANY OTHER MEETING? NOBODY KNOWS WHO YOU ARE OR WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE -- yet you feel you must voice your opinion every day????

It was Pandora who started Measure K to have only the PZ homeowners pay for a big city sewer.

Get real Shark!

P.S. Shark, we've all seen the movie "Wizard of Oz" and we all know not that you're nothing more than the little guy behind the curtain.

GetRealOsos said...

Mark,

Follow the money!

Hint -- the developers and MWH!!!!!

That's why the County is doing what it's doing.

I'm still curious how the County (in the 80's) allowed 1,140 homes to be built and never collected one dime from the developers for the infrastructure, this is unheard of. Are the supervisors who were in charge then now retired in Santa Barbara? Hmmmm....

Also, Malibu (Trib story yesterday) is going through the same thing -- blaming septics for the pollution there and ignoring wastewater plant out of the city, runoff, pet droppings, etc. and they KNOW that a big sewer fits ONE purpose -- DEVELOPMENT!!!

The water boards are working to help the developers.

P.S. Don't waste your time with Lynette and Steve -- they are paid lobbyists.

Yep, follow the money....

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

getrealsays,
"If they are selling you piss water, they're in big trouble."

No, they are not, that is in the upper aquifer. Most pumping is done from the lower aquifer. The upper is what we need to turn around so we can use it without an enormous cost to the customers to clean up and then use. A little is used now for BLENDING, but that is not enough to solve the problem. If we continue to over pump the lower aquifer, as we are currently doing, we will be drinking nothing, as the puryeryors can't sell us salt water to drink.

The so-called "horribleness" of the old project was the COST and you know it. It wasn't going to be ugly and it would have been a park - like so many "move-the-sewer/no-sewerites" have been screaming about the lack thereof recently due to the changes for Montaña de Oro. If ever that statement ron keeps harping about that people didn't want a park, he should see the many complaining going on right now as to the LACK of parks in Los Osos.

The COST has been the reason for every turndown - including the one Pandora stopped. BUT that one was ALSO disliked because it was next to the middle school and parents did not like the idea of chlorine gas being stored adjacent to the school. This is what parents of kids that were in that school have said to me, not the cost.

I don't know why you accuse me of not caring. I have on one occasion anyway posted the URL to the County site with the financial assistance information and County contacts for people with financial needs. Not having a sewer because of cost is not an option by the EPA either. Instead of moaning about it, why don't you educate yourself as to the aid available and pass the word?

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

getreal is so out of touch, it thinks that, "streets (will be) torn up for years, fines, repairs, etc."

Construction companies do not have "years" to spend on any one project - what fines are you making up for us to pay -- and repairs - what repairs? Unless you are talking about installing step - then if our yard was torn up, our driveway removed, a new electrical panel needed…yeah - we would have some pretty serious repairs.

Do you really think MWH is going to BID on this job? Can they? They are in a lawsuit with the CSD - granted the COUNTY is in charge, but there just might be some ISSUES.

Where do you get this stuff?

You are right about one thing though. With a plant out of town - on large acreage - I think that the chance for future development is very possible with additional water from somewhere. That is why I like Tri-W - in town, not expandable - oh, and cheaper.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, if you want to see the Water Board's requirements for water quality, look at Chapter 7 in the EIR. Are you SURE that your technology is a fit?

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

Nobody IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD PUT A PARK NEXT TO THE TOWN'S SEWER PLANT.

And you are wrong (again) -- this was NOT just about cost at Tri-W. Some people know better (I'm one of them). The sewer never belonged on viewshed or over the back bay. But you got to destroy ESHA -- and that's a good thing for Jeff Edwards. He couldn't have done it without ya!! Now he can build his 90 some homes and shopping, movie and pool. HMMMMM.

WHY DO YOU, PANDORA, AND DREAMERS WANT TO RUIN LOS OSOS?


Rein,

I don't think you answered my previous post:

Blogger GetRealOsos said...

Sewertoons,

If Golden State Water has the technology to remove nitrates (and have already increased rates to do so) they (in a recession/depression) WHY would you want to put in the most expensive sewer in the world AND HAVE JUST 4,500 homeowners to pay for the whole thing (when the entire district benefits)?????

It's the most stupid thing I've ever heard!!!

A huge unnecessary public works project that will tax hundreds out of their homes????


SHARK,

Wanna take a crack at my question? I'm very curious!!!!

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

Sewer experts know that it takes 5-10 years to put in the system.

You are no expert by any stretch.

MWH gets all the work in this County. They will do this job. Corrollo already spilled the beans on that one.

And, you don't think there will be repairs, upgrades, etc. -- come on Lynette. Look at Pimso and Men's Colony -- hey, look at Morro Bay!

You don't care Lynette and you are a paid lobbyist!

P.S. You supported AB2701 and that was nothing more than to get a 'EXPANDABLE' PLANT (REGIONAL PLANT) FOR SAM BLAKESLEE AND HIS DEVELOPER BUDDIES!!

Watershed Mark said...

GRO,

Real questions are never answered by those in support of something they cannot defend with logic.

Recently several posters have clearly demonstrated they cannot actually grasp factual information presented by the agencies in support of a particular solution to the exclusion of better more cost effective solutions.

There are really none so blind as those who will not see.

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Sewertoons said...
mark, if you want to see the Water Board's requirements for water quality, look at Chapter 7 in the EIR. Are you SURE that your technology is a fit?


OK, I'll play.

Which WB "requirements for water quality" are you referring to?

Steve, Did you see the $55M MBR Estimated cost mentioned in chapter 7?
I calculate $41.66/gal compared with $7.4/gal for ECOfluid's USBF MBR.
The is an apple to apple comparison(for those of you at Cal Poly).
BTW we will use Ultra Violet Light Disinfection because of our process emits such a low turbidity we don't require the toxic and expensive chlorine method that is being sought in the current RFQ.

Nice huh?

Watershed Mark said...

Many other(who I will leave nameless for this audience) MBR systems use chlorine contact designs to insure disinfection when their systmes foul or fail.

The USBF is a natural and seal healing "planktonic" membrane that is followed by a pysical membrane that operates utilizing gravity.

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Sorry Steve,

I want to apologize to you for miscalculating the numbers above.
Let me try it again:

Steve, Did you see the $55M MBR Estimated cost mentioned in chapter 7?
I calculate $45.83/gal compared with $7.4/gal for ECOfluid's USBF MBR. A $38.43/gallon or an 83% savings
The is an apple to apple comparison(for those of you at Cal Poly).
BTW we will use Ultra Violet Light Disinfection because of our process emits such a low turbidity we don't require the toxic and expensive chlorine method that is being sought in the current RFQ.

REAL Nice huh?

I would love to see an energy comparison between the two technologies.
It shouldn't take the county more than a week or two to “flush” that out..

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, chlorine is on hand for back-up, it is a safety issue.

Shark Inlet said...

OsosChange,

I'm calling you out on your statement: "President Warren J. Baker of Cal Poly agrees with me. He had said to me a while back, 'Our faculty have freedom of speech, but I think it's disheartening to have someone distribute innuendo during a time when their job is to educate, not to discriminate.'"

I do not believe he said this. Furthermore, to suggest he said this about me is a double lie. Even if he did say something along those lines (and I don't believe for a minute that he did ... perhaps you misunderstood and misquoted him), he was not referring to me or my actions. Even so, such a statement by him would only be the case if you presented him with an incorrect version of the truth.

That all being said, you appear to have few goals other than to smear my reputation. Seriously, look at the last few times you've commented here. Little substance other than to whine about me and to tell people that I am evil.

I consider this comment about Baker little more. If it is, please offer us proof that what you write is more than a made up story.

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

Here's a question. Did you or advocates for the technology you are suggesting actually present the County information which would allow them to fairly compare this technology with others during the screening process?

If you didn't do so during the relevant timeframe, it hardly seems appropriate to now fuss that they didn't review your favorite treatment method.

I would also suggest that not every "solution" that is offered up as "best" will actually solve every problem. In this case, there may be limitations on allowable treatment methods which would limit our options. For example, if the RWQCB says that onsite is not allowable, the County won't promote onsite because they know full well that they'll hit a brick wall down the road.

So, then, what in the EIR do you say that you know to be wrong? Do you have proof? Did you talk with the County early on?

Watershed Mark said...

Sewertoons said...
mark, chlorine is on hand for back-up, it is a safety issue.

One of us does not understand "process"...

Please explain how chlorine is used as a back up.
What is being backed up and how?

Shark Inlet said...

GetReal,

About the time you start calling me a paid flak for the County is about the time you give up the right to demand me respond to your questions.


Even so, as a way of addressing some of the issues you raise, lemmie tell you a story about how and why I got involved here.

I've been reading up on the sewer problem since the late 1990s. I don't know how I stumbled onto this blog, but in 2005 I started reading here. Ann was mostly telling us stuff quite similar to the opinions of Julie and Lisa.

Some of it made little sense to me. I figure that reasonable people can defend their positions when asked, so I figured that I should ask why we should support the recall when the adovcates of the recall were so wishy-washy on the costs and benefits of such an action. While they could clearly say "out of town" was a goal, they did not ever ever ever indicate the source of their claim that out of town would cost no more that $100/month. I immediately became suspicious and some key questions I've had have never been answered.

On the other hand, those who were "dreamers" made a whole lot of sense. They talked about delay costing us additional money.

Furthermore, it is fair to say that some of those "dreamers" were opposed to the formation of the LOCSD because they viewed it is a mistake.

I blame both the Solutions Group and the Recall advocastes for the mess we're in. Anyone who paints a picture where only one of these groups wears white hats and the other black is oversimplifying the situation.

That being said, when people start tossing out BS, I ask them to justify their claims. If they don't, it doesn't mean that I need to attend a CSD meeting ... but that I should call them on their crap in the forum they spread it. If you're gonna say that there should be a limit on the amount of comments a person should be allowed to make, why haven't you said "boo" about Mark's frequency?


Lastly, if you say that I should have no say because I live in Monarch, I hope that you are also telling people in Bayridge and Vista de Oro that they should also shut up because they also have costs lower than the bulk of the PZ. However, I haven't heard you say this. Why not?

GetRealOsos said...

Rein,

If you were so concerned about the move the sewer, recall, $100 a month, etc. -- Why did you not speak to McPherson right away? Why did you not go to one single meeting? Why couldn't you speak out in public? (rather than just blogging reaching just a few people..)

As far as Bayridge and Vista, they have a gravity system and probably are being over charged for their benefit (one big pipe to the gravity system) - they were assessed half the amount. They will have all the hazards that the PZ has, but YOU will not.

I love the way you avoid my questions. I'll ask you again:

If Golden State Water has the technology to remove nitrates (and have already increased rates to do so) they (in a recession/depression) WHY would you want to put in the most expensive sewer in the world AND HAVE JUST 4,500 homeowners to pay for the whole thing (when the entire district benefits)?????

It's the most stupid thing I've ever heard!!!

A huge unnecessary public works project for a few to profit greatly while thousands suffer. Sounds like George Bush tactics to me. Nice, real nice!

Also, you say, "That being said, when people start tossing out BS, I ask them to justify their claims..."

Well, STEVE, why don't you provide proof of pollution (besides Kitt's one tenth of one percent) where's the proof of a million gallons a day. Don't give some bull answer. You know as well as I do that Gordon had to claim pollution to get monies a long time ago. He lied. Where's the recent testing of wells (in and out of the PZ) for the last couple years. Why wouldn't the County test the wells before putting in the most expensive sewer money can buy when quite possibly it may not be needed. The US EPA prefers clusters and decentralized. Why do you go against the US EPA (just like the county)?

Big gravity sewer equals development - here just like Malibu. THE DEVELOPERS ARE HAVING THE PZ PAY FOR THEM TO DEVELOP. Nice Steve and Lynette...real nice!

It's all a scam and you and Lynette are hired guns to patrol the blogs and promote the lie and scandal. Nice, real nice. Is this how you teach your kids? That's sick!

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

getreal, there is just no point in trying to answer anything back to you, your mind is made up with your conspiracy theories. What is the point? If you are fine with drug residues and personal care products in water, buy a house with a well and drink up! Just don't come crying back here to us when you sprout 3 breasts and have PMS 24/7. We don't want to hear about it.

Osos Change said...

Steve,

I should have mentioned this earlier. That statement Baker made wasn't about you. It was about another professor on campus who was politically charged but used his lecturing time as a means of of uttering racist tirades. Perhaps you have a guilty conscience.

In this case, you have been using office hours on campus to smear others who you happen to disagree vehimently with. This has been something that has been going on for a few years now and that's not even factoring in what you did at VCU in 1997 when you hosted a mailing list (dubbed "Red Rhino") to distribute criticism of Gary Ezzo's philosophy and teachings.

You're obviously panicking about my comments because I quoted Baker and because you assumed that I was talking specifically about you -- and rightfully so -- because I think, by now, you realized, "Oh crap!" You're a smart fellow. You realize that you've slipped. You realize that you're not going to last for long and no, that is not a threat. By continuing to sew the seeds of hatred on here, you become your own worst enemy and it's quite feasible that I don't even have to lift a finger to make your complete undoing possible. I don't have to (or want to) play the role of the Internet troll to advance your descent into oblivion.

I do think it would be beneficial for the Cal Poly administration to hear about your actions and your conduct. I find your comments to be very detrimental to college ethics.

Say a Los Osos resident -- who you disagree with -- has a son or a daughter that attends your Statistics 252 course. Any reasonable person, upon reading your comments here and on SanLuisObispo.com would be concerned that you would be unfair to them. The sheer intensity of your combative comments can reasonably create suspicion.

I like how you say I'm smearing your reputation when your reputation, as sharkinlet, has been all about smearing the "Move the Sewer" people and when confronted, you demand to see "proof" of people's statements in hopes that people will go on that tangent and temporarily absolve you from accountability until someone calls you out again. Rinse and repeat. Sin, repent and sin again.

Your activity as sharkinlet has been performed at the same frequency of a drug addict who constantly needs his fix or perhaps a rapist who often blames the rape victim for instigating the rape. Or maybe you're just too eager to please the people that have been more than willing to divide the community of Los Osos so if someone assumes you're on the County payroll or a Montgomery-Watson Harza lobbyist or a Taxpayers Watch wingman, you shouldn't be surprised by those assumptions...

... especially when you've never been to a BOS meeting or a CSD meeting or any public event that is relevant to the "real issues" that you like to discuss often. Ironically, You were nothing but forthcoming when you presented your criticism of Ezzo but not once have you made the attempt to put your John Hancock on the propoganda that you spew. Why? Maybe you simply did not want to get caught just like you were caught back in 1997 in Richmond, Virginia.

What kind of message are you sending to your kids when you commit to this negativity? What kind of message do you send to the world as an instructor of Cal Poly? Of course, you're probably not going to answer any of my questions. You never have, never will because you don't have answers. You've never had answers. You've never wanted answers.
It's always, "Let's call this person a liar for being mean to me," and then your friend, Lynette, writes, "OsosChange, you're creepy," like she's your press secretary when the sad truth is that she spends more time stroking you than she does to her husband. I had no idea infidelity was compatable with the Internet.

The next comment comes from some guy named "Mike," also known as Spectator -- also known as Jon Arcuni, or as he likes to call himself, "The little old lady from Atascadero" (4CrapKiller). Obviously, the best thing that an alcoholic, wife-beating, Zionist slumlord can do is post under multiple identities as a means of making it seem like there's more than one Taxpayers Watch member on the Internet. Voila! Those are your fans.

So there's your substance, Stevie.

Your time is up.

Richard LeGros said...

GR

You Wrote:
"If Golden State Water has the technology to remove nitrates (and have already increased rates to do so) they (in a recession/depression) WHY would you want to put in the most expensive sewer in the world AND HAVE JUST 4,500 homeowners to pay for the whole thing (when the entire district benefits)?????
"

Response:
The answer to your question is in the State laws that govern the purity and use of the State's water. In California law, the removal of water polution (in this case nitrates) may not be achieved soley at the well head. By law, the SOURCE OF THE POLLUTION must be removed (and paid for by the polluter)PRIOR to a water purveyor being allowed to use pollution-removal techiniques at the well head.

The logic behind this law is that if a purveyor treated the pollution at the well head ONLY then the SOURCE of the pollution would never be removed.

In short, relying only on treating water at the well head fails to remove the pollution source that resulted in the use of well head treatment to begin with. Remove the pollution source(s) will result in no need for well-head treatment; and reduce treatment costs in the long haul too.

As to the cost issue, the best way to resolve that is by spreading a project's capital costs over the affected population over a much longer period of time. That way those paying up front will not be saddled with the majority of the financial hit while future populations pay little for the needed cleanup's capital costs.

-R

Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote:
Mark,

Here's a question. Did you or advocates for the technology you are suggesting actually present the County information which would allow them to fairly compare this technology with others during the screening process?

If you didn't do so during the relevant timeframe, it hardly seems appropriate to now fuss that they didn't review your favorite treatment method. Another moot point…

I would also suggest that not every "solution" that is offered up as "best" will actually solve every problem. In this case, there may be limitations on allowable treatment methods which would limit our options. For example, if the RWQCB says that onsite is not allowable, the County won't promote onsite because they know full well that they'll hit a brick wall down the road.

Steve, Your statements above indicate you are seriously behind in your study and are at risk of “failing”. It seems you missed my 6:28 AM, November 20, 2008 post:
“Actually ECOfluid was introduced by me in the fall of 2006 to Paavo Ogren, Carollo on May 5th, 2007 and I submitted information to Mark Hutchinson when he requested technology for the December 18, 2007: Environmental Impact Report Scoping Meeting presentation and Notice of Preparation.”

Steve,
Please cut and paste my words that you used in support of your statements:
So, then, what in the EIR do you say that you know to be wrong? Do you have proof?

Did you talk with the County early on? …………..See above.

As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

On another note…
Steve,
I do not want to get between you and OC, because OC does not need my help and you may beyond my ability to help you, but I must say it amused me when you wrote:
“That all being said, you appear to have few goals other than to smear my reputation.”

..Your statement would be much more reasonable and would make more sense if you actually had your “identity” on the line instead of hiding behind an anonymous identity.

Also here are a two more of your comments which you have yet to substantiate:

"Thanks Mark, we now know where you got that number, the $50 which you incorrectly labeled as the cost per gallon for treatment." 1:23 PM, November 21, 2008

“I am reminded of your writing last Spring when you told us that there was proof that the Reclamator would work for Los Osos and that the laws said that if someone were to use one, they could not be fined by the RWQCB. If I recall correctly, the evidence you presented then didn't resolve the situation and your claims weren't accepted as proven. 10:45 AM, November 17, 2008

Steve,
Please cut and paste my words you used in support of your statement(s) above.
It seems you may be your own worst enemy when it comes to your …“reputation”.

Shark Inlet said...

GetReal,

Think logically about what you write. You are suggesting that if I don't speak with McPherson right away or go to a CSD meeting that somehow I don't have the right to make a comment. Who died and made you king?

If writing in a public comment section isn't voicing one's opinion, why are you also criticizing me as being dangerous and divisive? You can't have it both ways ... if making comments here isn't as good as making comments at a meeting, you shouldn't fuss at me at all and if you're fussing at me, making comments here should count as voicing my opinion.

Your comment that says that a sewer will profit only a few while thousands suffer reveals your bias. One key reason that thousands will suffer is because of the recall. We could have paid less than we will have to. Another reason is because we formed a CSD. We could have paid less than we will have to. Every time someone comes along and says that we could save money, we end up with something more costly.

As for developers and who benefits ... please remember that one characteristic of TriW would have been to limit the size of development in Los Osos. The County will likely choose a site which could easily handle expanded capacity and additional growth and additional stress on our water source.

Nope, we just see things differently. The problem is when people start to take things personally and make threats and when they view the others as promoting evil. I trust that everyone participating in the discussion here cares about the fate of our town and that we all want the best for our neighbors.

Shark Inlet said...

OsosChange,

I am glad that you've come clean.

When you wrote "I don't think that you should be banned for speaking the truth, but I believe that using your time on campus at Cal Poly to make slanderous statements is morally reprehensible that has justified grounds for your termination. ...
President Warren J. Baker of Cal Poly agrees with me."
, either you meant to suggest that Baker commented about me when you then added that he said "Our faculty have freedom of speech, but I think it's disheartening to have someone distribute innuendo during a time when their job is to educate, not to discriminate" or you are woefully ignorant of the implication of of your words.

Are you seriously asking us to believe that you didn't intend people to think that you were just a chattin' with Baker about me? That pushes the envelope of credibility pretty hard. It is far easier to believe that you intended to mislead than you are that bad of a writer.

The other issues you raise are not worth commenting on other than to say it is sad that you're so willing to focus on smearing me. Pathetic, really.

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

So, you submitted materials for the treatment method you are now promoting as best. Fair enough. Did one of those documents include evidence of 10 years of acceptable performance at denitirification, something the RWQCB has insisted on?

Presumably you are fussing because you think that the treatment methods having been favored in the EIR were somehow wrong and that the method you prefer is better. We get that.

However, you are telling us that your favored method will be sufficient to meet our wastewater needs. I tend to trust the County process here. If you are telling us not to trust the County ... who didn't pick your favored method ... please explain why we should trust you instead of them. If your favored method beats the others, please explain how the County got things so wrong.

Osos Change said...

Steve,

Obviously you refuse to acknowledge or accept any of the issues that I deem as real because you know you've been exposed. If I didn't know you better, I'd say you're mentally at a diminished capacity to respond, but I've seen you respond to similar inquiries from Mark Low and GetReal. I bet that if Cal Poly were to investigate in the matter, you would have to come clean and cooperate for the sake of preserving your occupation. May I suggest that if you want to keep your job, you ought to start coming clean now if you're going to continue posting on this blog.

I don't think it looks very good, for you, to not respond to any of this given that I'm now providing substance and you're not doing a thing about it -- dismissing it as "pathetic." You should be careful what you wish for. You never know who is reading this information.

The information is now public and searchable on Google when you type in "Steve Rein" as a keyword. It doesn't look very pretty if someone were to do a background check on you and find out about you on a blog that you post anonymously on. Adding insult to injury, Google caches old content so even if you called Ann Calhoun and begged her to remove my posts, you can't get rid of something that has already been archieved on one of the most used search engines. I doubt that Calhoun would delete my posts because nothing is more enjoyable than having a sociopath, who has been posting slanderous comments for years, unmasked. But one thing is clear: if you ever find a job outside of Cal Poly, you're not going to get that job now that everything is on the record.

Maybe you should listen to Kateri and leave the blogs alone for the sake of your mental health. Obviously, you have an addiction and you're in denial. You know that it's an addiction, but you don't want to acknowledge that because it's a sign of weakness and a concession that you've neglected your family. Now, I'm not one to judge your parenting-attentiveness skills because I don't know you personally, but when I look at these timestamps of your posts and then your time on campus, one can assume that you spend too much time on here. Why?

If you really thought I was smearing you, you would have taken preemptive measures such as asking Ann Calhoun to remove my comments and restricting my access, requesting a court order to subpoena Blogger.com to disclose account information and sue me for defamation, but obviously you can't risk doing that because that also exposes you and everything you've said in the past that the courts can determine as defamation. The sad thing is that the information I've obtained is not a product of my imagination and I have not disclosed any intention of merely smearing you. I've used a cocktail of web sites as the end result of conducting several searches using Google and I would think that if you really thought you were being defamed, you would hire a lawyer to seek takedown notices of the sites that post what you believe to be false information. All the sites that I've researched have received no notices or any written rebuttal from you personally.

You're only saying that I'm smearing you because the only choice you have left is to play the victim and you secretly hope that your anonymous e-buddies will bail you out by insulting me and taking me off-tangent, which obviously has no effect. Your decision to play the victim so late in the game shows an obvious sign of desparation. You've probably deliberated on playing that card for a while. After all, because I've given you a verbal tongue-lashing in the past, it would be reasonable to label me as the "bully," right? But in all of my correspondance to you, you have not once tried to refute me. A simple search on Calhoun's blog shows that all you've really done is rhetorically deflect the accusations and not once have you made any attempt to link back to statements -- that you've made -- that vindicate you from those accusations.

After reading the previous paragraph, you're probably thinking of writing back to me, "OsosChange, show me proof that I really did something. If you can't, that means I did nothing wrong," and then you hope that I fizzle out, decline to show proof so that it makes you look like the better man when in reality, that makes you look like a snot-nosed brat that doesn't have the slightest clue -- until now -- that the Cal Poly administration has been reviewing this blog since late September as part of an internal affairs investigation. You're probably thinking about calling me a "liar" for making this announcement, but I think you know as well as I do that you can't afford to show your anonymous-style childish antics anymore. You can't risk it. You're now Steve Rein, not SharkInlet. Your criminal activity has been exposed, your conduct has been exposed, your credibility has been stripped and your humility has been shattered.

Your time is up.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve writes:
Did one of those documents include evidence of 10 years of acceptable performance at denitirification, something the RWQCB has insisted on?

Please cut and paste or provide the link to support your statement above.

Your MO of making comments unsupported by words or facts reveals the very shear nature of the arguments you have made.

If you cannot back up your statements, why make them, statistically speaking of course.

ECOfluid's USBF denitrifies as good or better for as long or longer than AHYTHING brought forward thus far. The county and their consulting engineer knows it.

I see know why everyone has beat you at every arguement you have made which I have read.

It really isn't a challenge at all.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark you are so silly - Shark was "outed" some time back and has spoken as himself - just because he didn't change his blogging name to his real one from Shark Inlet (a.k.a. Stiv Neener), he isn't less of who he is! Is Watershed Mark on your driver's license? You know me by me real name too, but I still go by sewertoons here on this blog.

ws mark said:
"“Actually ECOfluid was introduced by me in the fall of 2006 to Paavo Ogren, Carollo on May 5th, 2007 and I submitted information to Mark Hutchinson when he requested technology for the December 18, 2007: Environmental Impact Report Scoping Meeting presentation and Notice of Preparation.”

OH! Did Mr. Wrecklamator know you were also pushing another product?

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, please check out the EIR Executive summary page 2-7 (11 of 54 if you are reading the PDF numbering). I can't paste it in here properly, but you have asked me the same question as you asked Shark above, so since I have the EIR open now, I will answer. The BOD and nitrate level requirements are there. As to the 10 years of data, that is part of what the Water Board used to stop the project proposed by the original CSD, as they did NOT have the 10 years the WB requested.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

osos change snarls:
"One of the issues is that there are people who are using the Internet to create fiction and sew the seeds of hatred behind the red curtains and that has divided Los Osos for far too long."

Red curtains?

oc, are YOU not spewing hatred? Do you think YOU help the community. If so, HOW in 200 words or less.

Are you related to Budd Sanford? ARE you Budd Sanford?

Do you realize how crazy you appear here?

Osos Change said...

Do you realize how crazy you appear here?

How am I crazy? Please write your response in 200 words or less.

Shark Inlet said...

OsosChange,

Like when one argues with a bigot and they take anything you say and attempt to use it as a point in their favor, discussing things with you isn't all that fruitful.

You're clearly focusing on my person and not on issues which are related to the future of Los Osos and a potential sewer for our town.

Go ahead, but don't be surprised if I don't respond to off topic baiting from you. It was probably a mistake to respond to your earlier baiting of me because it only seems to have emboldened you to make additional comments which most reasonable people would read as threats and off topic comments which needn't be mentioned at all.

Unknown said...

To Osos Change:

"Do you realize how crazy you appear here?

How am I crazy? Please write your response in 200 words or less."

Ok...YOU ASKED FOR A RESPONSE.... Quick & Final, Quick & Final....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

To osos change:

I asked first.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote: If your favored method beats the others, please explain how the County got things so wrong.

I have written: Why would the SLCO BOS choose a lower quality technology that costs more when better technology which costs less is available?

This question cuts to “the heart of the matter”. That is why it is so very difficult to answer rationally and on the record.

“Instructive for all”, isn’t it.(?)

Perhaps we will find out why the county process ignored certain money saving efficient and long standing technologies in favor of gravity/ox ditch.
It is going to be a very interesting how the “process” proceeds during the comment period.

I will reserve comment about “how the County got things so wrong…”
There is still plenty of time and money, to get things right.

Watershed Mark said...

Sewertoons said...
To osos change:

I asked first.


Lynette,
This statement is so childish.
You are making a record. You should start writing like it.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,

I am free to do as I please, so I do not require anyone's permission to "do work".

The ECOfluid USBF process is a variation of extended aeration. so yes there is 10 years data.

Achieving secondary treatment levels as the county seeks to do is a piece of cake.

When tertiary is available at a fraction of the cost something is very wrong if it isn't even looked at.

Watershed Mark leads you to a blogsite and you can contact me because I have posted my mailig address and telephone numbers several time going back many months ago.

As you say "Steve" was outed, he didn't act like a responsible individual like Ann or RL or me.

I challenge you and Steve to put your name on this blog as it apprears on your DL as I have.

Why wouldn't you? What are you afraid of?

Unknown said...

Go play somewhere else mark... you're acting like some stupid kid... You lost...go find a city in Florida that "needs" your "help"... We don't...!!!!

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE,

“Actually ECOfluid was introduced by me in the fall of 2006 to Paavo Ogren, Carollo on May 5th, 2007 and I submitted information to Mark Hutchinson when he requested technology for the December 18, 2007: Environmental Impact Report Scoping Meeting presentation and Notice of Preparation.”

As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

It isn't over till it's over.

Keeping you informed is more of a hobby and it is fun.

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE,
You seem to be a sturdy and rugged individual, calling Ron "The Man" Crawford "out" when he pulls the wings off your and others' arguements.

Why don't you show us all how stirong you really are and post your real name?

What are you afraid of? Hmmmmm?

Osos Change said...

Steve,

Your reply to me is not surprising. I guess you had to say something.

Like when one argues with a bigot and they take anything you say and attempt to use it as a point in their favor...

Do you have any mirrors in your house? If so, look at one.

You're clearly focusing on my person and not on issues which are related to the future of Los Osos and a potential sewer for our town.

Focusing on you is the issue that is related to the future of Los Osos and a potential sewer for our town. Here's my reasoning.

The "Save The Dream" and Taxpayers Watch folk have been spreading misinformation that has gotten out of control and people have been using that misinformation as a means of pushing an agenda through at the cost of dividing the community. You and folks like Jon Arcuni and Lynette Tornatzky have deliberately been spreading misinformation through hateful gossip and hate-mongering.

I think a good question is, "Well OsosChange, aren't you doing it?" The truth of the matter is that I'm really not. I don't go around spreading misinformation even though it's often tempting to be manipulative just so it shows people's true colors. It's not worth it. However, I've spent years monitoring these blogs and message boards without saying a word and to be criticized for "smearing" when you guys have been doing it for a long time is rather hilarious. The amount of time slandering people is overwhelming, but I guess that if I do that, all of a sudden all that slandering that you people have done disappears. Sometimes I wonder if you really think people are that stupid to fall for your tricks.

I'd like to thank Ann for leaving all of these comments up on the site. It really paints a picture that perfectly illustrates my points.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

osos change says:
"The "Save The Dream" and Taxpayers Watch folk have been spreading misinformation that has gotten out of control and people have been using that misinformation as a means of pushing an agenda through at the cost of dividing the community."

Um, wasn't the community ALREADY divided at the $100/out-of-town point in 2005? Wasn't THAT misinformation? (TW hadn't even been born yet.)

I wasn't around for "Save the Dream," I arrived late April and knew nothing sewerish until September 2005.

What hasn't COME true from the TW information - CDO's - true, Lost the Loan - true, Bankruptcy - true, Measure B, illegal - true, We Delay, We Pay, true. I'm sure there is more. Please point out the "out of control" misinformation!

BTW, Shark Inlet is NOT TW! I am. I've never seen him at any meeting, ever.

Please point out a hate mongering statement that I have made.

oc said about Shark:
"…when in reality, that makes you look like a snot-nosed brat that doesn't have the slightest clue" AND, "Your activity as sharkinlet has been performed at the same frequency of a drug addict who constantly needs his fix or perhaps a rapist who often blames the rape victim for instigating the rape"

Lastly, oc said about me:
"…the sad truth is that she spends more time stroking you than she does to her husband. I had no idea infidelity was compatable with the Internet."

And then you said about yourself NOT smearing:
"The truth of the matter is that I'm really not. I don't go around spreading misinformation even though it's often tempting to be manipulative just so it shows people's true colors"

Well, we have once again seen YOUR true colors and they are not very pretty.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote,
Shark Inlet is NOT TW! I am.

Lynette,
If you are not concerned how the county is currently spending taxpayer money in support of an agenda which will cost tax and rate payers much more than is necessary for inferior technolgy, you must be blind.

TW-is a joke that would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Your agenda is clear.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,

BTW, is Lou blogging as MIKE?

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE are you Lynette's husband?

Why don't you tell us wh you are?
You talk so tough, what are you so afraid of?

Unknown said...

Mark... I've lived in SLO/LO for 65years... I am not Lynette's husband and I don't know CrapKiller personally... I do pay property taxes in Los Osos... I've never run for a CSD seat... I never was an activist on either side of any of the many issues until folks like Osos Change and Getrealosos, Gail, Al, Lisa, Julie and Rocano began personal smear campaigns... I've watched as Al Barrow brought in one snake oil sales team after another... I've heard every sales pitch for every better, cheaper sewer/non-sewer... Yes mark, I'm just one of the many making up this community...

I've listened to your boorish BS both as the pitchman for the Reclamator and now for the ECOflush...

Thanks to you and all the sales folks, I totally back the County to clear away the smoke and bring in a sewer... I watched the community install a Community Service District and watched a small group of activists lie their way into office and destroy what was a pretty decient place to live and raise families...

..and now mark, you are nothing but an outsider only seeking to make a buck off this community... I'm certainly not afraid of you...but as you have no say in what this community is or is going to be, I have no reason to answer any of your assine questions... If you want to make a commission, go right ahead, but you'll have to earn it, and mark, based on your track record with the Reclamator, you've already lost...

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Thank you Mike.

Mike is a gentleman whom I have never met in-person. I do know Crapkiller and his wife and they are not Mike. And my husband has never once blogged.

Hope this clears it up for you mark.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Oh, I just got to my mail box and I thought I'd share what mark sent to me on an email as to his "investigation" of me:

"Mark Low to me
show details 6:09 AM (7 hours ago)

Reply

http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_zaba.php?sname=LYNETTE%20TORNATZKY&state=CA
&ref=zaba&se=O&doby=&city=&name_style=1&tm=&tmr=

Is Lou blogging as MIKE?"


Thanks for the other stuff on the other E's mark -that is pretty cool.

Guess I am curious as to why you want to know so much about me and about Mike. WHY? How does this matter?

Unknown said...

Hi Lynette... there are many e-services out there purporting, for a fee of course, to provide background indo on anyone... Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation and misinterpretations floating around... like, how would you like to find out that osos change made up a story and published it...and then later you find that entirely false story in some on-line dossier about you...

That is part of why I don't give personal facts or even my name on this blog... I also am of the opinion that violent individuals, such as osos change, would cause harm to my family if they knew who I am... For now, I'll keep my identity within our small circle... After living through the re-call campaign and hearing the viciousness from the move-the-sewer/no-sewer trolls, we should all be concerned that these extremists are willing to destroy the lives of those they disagree with...the most recent case being the crap Osos Change has been dumping on Shark... We've all heard Racano and believe me, that is one mentally unbalanced individual who could be capable of deliberatly harming someone... and how about Al Barrow...??? I could mention an old realtor and a couple others who are dangerous...

...but for now, I'll let the law speak for me... I don't need to give those extremists anymore targets... They have lost the sewer war, the County will bring a sewer to Los Osos and the extremists will grow even more bitter and hopefully, they will remove themselves from the community Quickly and Finally...!!!!

Osos Change said...

Lynette,

You're a basket case.

Not much is really known about you except that you're the wife of Lou Tornatzky and that was always your greatest fear: that all you really are is merely Lou Tornatzky's wife. You were nobody before you became Lou Tornatzky's wife. Here's a man who is the area chair and professor of IT for the Orfalea College of Business at Cal Poly and still, all you were was his wife. In Los Osos, you became depressed and had a nervous breakdown as you were started to find yourself getting sicker and sicker -- and then you realized things needed to change. You were going to run for the LOCSD in 2006 because you imagined yourself to be a contender.

You mingled with the likes of Maria Kelly, Gordon Hensley, Richard LeGros and suddenly, you were a figure as far as water conservation goes and you sincerely thought you could become a viable LOCSD board director. You would even go as far as emulating Maria Kelly because nobody liked the way you naturally were: a very downtrodden, spiteful, self-loathing parasite who could not even rival her husband's success. You hoped that people would associate you as Lynette Tornatzky, the aspiring philanthropist, not the Lynette Tornatzky who goes under the names sewercrazed and sewertoons, but as fate would have it, you lost the election.

You grew bitter. You stopped going to most of the CSD meetings. You didn't care what happened so Joyce Albright and Maria Kelly urged you to keep pushing forward. Then you became a hermit, trapped in the cave of 1341 16th Street, and you started doing research for Taxpayers Watch. The only time you've spent a considerable amount of time outside the house was when you checked out LOCSD DVDs at the South Bay Library in hopes that you'll find something that Lisa Schicker or Julie Tacker said that would be detrimental to them and beneficial to Taxpayers Watch for the lawsuit. While you did that, you became addicted to your husband's PC and you started blogging. Before it was a hobby, but it grew into an occupation. Maria Kelly had told you once that you should do it just for giggles and for entertainment, but even she knew that it consumed you just as it consumed Steve Rein, a man that your husband knew from Cal Poly.

Meanwhile, you decided to take a few courses at Cuesta College and take Web Design because you had another nervous breakdown. It became obvious that you were concerned about the idea that you served no other purpose but to be used by others. You wanted to take control. You wanted to be the one that said, "I'm going to volunteer because I know how to actually do something!" and you did. You worked on Maria Kelly's web site but once again, you were tossed aside like maggot-infested dog corpse in the alleways of Venice, California. You had nothing left but to post on Calhoun's Cannon because you had no other voice left, and what's even more saddening is that your own choices led you to be the miserable being that everyone now knows.

So now your days consist of sleeping through mornings and posting nastygrams to people you disagree with in the afternoons; evening comes and you constantly wonder why your life is such a mess.

You know as well as I do that your time is up.

Unknown said...

Osos Change... Why don't you come out and tell us your name...??

You are the ass making all the threats... I'd love to have you come after me, bring on your "investigation" and let's meet in court...!!!!!!! I'd really like to hang your sorry ass out for the whole county to see....!!!!!!!!

Unknown said...

....and OC, don't have that stroke too soon... I really would like you exposed for the slime you are...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

You are wise Mike. Lots of strange information out there, who knows what is true and what is not until it is too late.

I feel really bad for Shark - someone sounds really jealous and angry about what he is able to do with words.

I hadn't intended to be "public" on this blog, but thanks to a "friend" I was outed. I don't think one's identity is important, but the message is.

I was not involved in the recall mess and I was out of town for a good part after, (due to 2 sick parents who are fine now - well, as fine as you can be at their age).

I have heard a lot of verbal abuse and more. And been yelled at, but I trust that despite being outed, I will not be physically attacked - as really - what choice do I have now anyway as I am not going away! Besides I have lived in some rough parts of towns - if your number is up, it is up, and so far, mine isn't!

I am thankful for each person on the County staff for their work on this project. They have been intelligent, hard-working, modest, thoughtful, balanced and kind to everyone on all sides. I am grateful that they will get us a WWTF, as without that as a (physical) reality, we will never be truly at peace in LO. The County is following a very careful and well thought out process, and making this project outcome bulletproof. I may not get my favorite place and technology, but I am fine with that - getting it done is my goal, and I will be SO happy when it is done! I only hope that if the other residents - or for that matter non-residents, don't get their "preferred" way, they do not go crazy and try to muck this up.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

osos change, I am trying hard to type but I am laughing so hard that I keep hitting wrong keys. Yikes, what did you have for breakfast? Or lunch!

Thanks for the laugh, you really have a talent - for well, I am not sure what, but I'm STILL laughing!

PS, I am mostly on a Mac, altho I also have a PC, and my husband doesn't know Shark and I have been at the South Bay library exactly twice in my life!

Jeez, I am STILL laughing!!! Why don't you write a novel, facts don't matter in a novel!? I hear Sue McGinty's "Murder in Los Lobos" is selling like hotcakes! It is not too late for you to get a life too!

Osos Change said...

Lynette,

You should stop lying about everything. You're in denial.

And Mr. Arcuni,

There's no reason to threaten harm to someone who is already dead on the inside.

Unknown said...

The liar on this blog is YOU osos change....!!!!

You don't have a clue who I am, but I'll be watching you closely.... Q & F, Q & F....

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE,

If the county ignores available technology, you lose.
I hope you can get a second job, you might need it to help pay your sewer bill.

I'm actually in LO/BP to conserve eergy, water and money.
If I make a commision for accomplishing that, what's it to you?

Unknown said...

quit trying to twist words.. I said "...If you want to make a commission, go right ahead, but you'll have to earn it, and mark, based on your track record with the Reclamator, you've already lost..."

So mark, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing when you say..."I'm actually in LO/BP to conserve eergy, water and money.
If I make a commision for accomplishing that, what's it to you?"

So you can see mark, I could care less what you do... You have already lost and will have no commission coming from the County's sewer plan for Los Osos... You have been reduced to noise and little else... You aren't in this to help Los Osos, only to make a few bucks...

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE,
It is a shame that the process has left you bitter and senseless.

I still carewhat is happening in and to LO/BP, even if you don't.

You seem so very tired and burned out. Try to give it a rest for a while.

As you wrote " I could care less what you do... "

Try acting your age and live up to your word.

It isn't over till it is over.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

And when its over, will you go away mark?

Watershed Mark said...

As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

It isn't over till it's over.

Keeping you informed is more of a hobby and it is fun.

Watershed Mark said...

As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

It isn't over till it's over.

Keeping you informed is more of a hobby and it is fun.

Watershed Mark said...

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
Art is the lie that enables us to realize the truth.
Pablo Picasso