Uh, Oh, Ron Crawford's Connecting The Dots, Again
"The Sequence," begins over at http://www.sewerwatch.blogspot.com/ Chugga-chugga, toot-toot. Place is looking like Grand Central Station.
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Calhoun's Can(n)ons was originally published in 1990 in the (now defunct) Morro Bay, CA, Sun Bulletin, and since 1992 has continued in the various resurrections of the Los Osos, CA. Bay News, Bay Breeze, Bay News, Bay News-Tolosa Press. A few years ago, the Can(n)on was added to the Central Coast NewsMission blogsite. Ann Calhoun lives in Los Osos. You can email her at Churadogs at gmail dot com
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80 comments:
The reality today Doing more with less, in this economy.
Ann,
Considering how quick Ron is to delete comments in his blog, he seems like he doesn't want a discussion or engagement but instead to have the right to tell people what he wants. This (along with the infrequency of actual new content) is why his blog is dying (within a blog there is a strong correlation between comments and interest ... and if the number of comments are dropping off to zero as in his case, we can conclude people aren't really reading him or that he deletes them all).
I don't mind you linking to him, because he spins a good yarn ... but I do want to encourage all those who would want to comment on Ron's ramblings to make those comments here instead because, after all, he is not a gracious host as is Ann.
That being said ... we have yet again another example of Ron focusing on one of his favorite two targets, Pandora. Let me reiterate, even if he is 100% right about all sorts of evil-deeds by Pandora and Gordon and how the two of them have a mind-control ability over everyone in the state except him and a few in Los Osos ... it still doesn't mean that the sewer is now gonna cost us less than it would with TriW.
He has written several times about how he's saved us money ... and yet the cost estimates seem to keep going up. I've asked him (or you, anyone really) to explain how we can be "saving" money by paying more. (And in this case, paying more for less ... we don't get to keep the water in our aquifer ... it really sounds like a raw deal to me. Perhaps there is a reasonable explanation, but none has been offered.
From a know-it-all like Ron, such silence is telling.
I would think like those who supported the Solutions Group and then came to understand such support has raised our costs, I would think that many who supported the recall will eventually need to come clean as Ann has suggested ... to apologize for the role they've played in the cost increases.
Without such an apology it will seem that these folks still stand behind their original actions as having been the best choice.
Now some would be willing to pay more to have a wastewater plant out of town, but that is not the platform the recall candidates ran on. I wonder if they would have won had they promised us $250/month and out of town instead of $200/month in town.
I wonder when Lynette will locate Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name".
Steve,
When Paavo "If there is a significantly less expensive technology, then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away" Ogren uses the Design/Build Law as intended, the septic tank discharge solution will cost much less than $128 million that is currently assessed.
If only, when...
No fair helping Ron.
The question is for him. He's claimed that he saved us money. If the ultimate result of the recall is to cause our bills to be higher, he didn't save us a dime.
You would also be right to say that we would save money if the RWQCB decided that a nitrate level of 40 is acceptable and they abolish the PZ ... but how about we stick with a discussion of a set of plausible outcomes.
Steve,
Your “40mg/l nitrate water scenario” does not hold up in to the facts.
How about we stick with reality?
Vacuum collection………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….$50,000,000.00+/-(Probably closer to $40,000,000.00)
1.2MGD ECOfluid USBF(tm) Tertiary Title 22 WRF…………………………………………………………………..$8,800,000.00
Repayment of County study costs and LOCSD fines, misc……………………………………………………$20,000,000.00+/-
Contingency 30%.............................................................................................................$23,400,000.00
Total…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….$101,400,000.00
Total Monthly Payment for 30 year zero interest………………………………………….…………………..$281,000.67
Total Monthly Payment for each one 4,769 connections (evenly divided)…………………………………….$58.93
The scenario above actually halts the pollution through the use of “sealed collection pipes” as it costs much less and uses much less energy than the system you are talking about.
Looks to me like Ron knows what he is talking about and you do not. But what else is new?
OMG Mark you seem to have missed the key point ... expecting the RWQCB to accept a 40 nitrate limit is completely unrealistic ... just like your proposal that we all use Reclamators.
As far as Ron knowing what he is talking about ... that doesn't match up with his repeated telling us that the CCC will never allow a WWTF at TriW and the CCC letter to the County indicating that they view an approved treatment plant at TriW as the starting point for discussions with the County.
If you want to look up to Ron as if he were God, go ahead ... but the rest of us would view this as unwise.
Mark,
See below and you'll see why I believe the County is corrupt:
Proposition 218 as well as various state and federal regulatory rules that competing technologies are available which could achieve the same result – lower or eliminated waste water discharge - for vastly less money. To that extent, the amount of the assessment may be out of proportion to the expected benefit – if it can be done for less, with the same result, then the amount of the assessments is too high. This, of course, assumes that the lessening of wastewater discharge can be demonstrated to be a “special benefit” to these properties in the first place.
Obama Nominates California Engineer to Lead EPA Office of Water
Steve,
Looks to me like Ron knows what he is talking about and (You missed my point:) you do not. But what else is new?
Mark ... you old doof ... I didn't miss your (irrelevant) point ... I was mocking you.
By the way, your puckering up to Ron's butt doesn't actually help your argument ... or his.
Steve wrote: “If you want to look up to Ron as if he were God, go ahead ... but the rest of us would view this as unwise.”
So Steve, now you believe that you speak for everyone?
Is that like your belief that “Phoenix” is in overdraft?
Does "the rest of us" include Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name"?
Hi Shark! Hilarious!!
Did everyone see the article in the New Times? Tom Murphy's libel lawsuit against the State was thrown out of court by Judge LaBarbera. He tentatively ruled that Murphy would have to pay $5,000 in attorneys fees to the defendants. See, there IS justice in this world!
Lynette,
You seem so easily amused.
Now, if you could just find your Mr. Dean “I forgot his last name” …
Inlet sez:"to come clean as Ann has suggested ... to apologize for the role they've played in the cost increases."
What I suggested was a Truth & Reconciliation process. That doesn't require an "apology." Just truth so that all of can connect the dots and understand what happened here. Los Osos was the Perfect Storm of screwups, some deliberate, some unintended, some a result of incompetence, or indifference, or hidden agendas, or greed or ego -- in short, a Perfect Storm that includes citizens, press, regulators, legislators, lawyers, politicians -- a cast of thousands!
Inlet sez:"Without such an apology it will seem that these folks still stand behind their original actions as having been the best choice."
No apology needed in the process of Truth and Reconciliation, unless someone wishes to do that. What your sentence above misses is that many choices were deemed to be correct at the time because WITHOUT CORRECT INFORMATION it would have been the correct choice. For example, if you were a member of the Coastal Commission and you were TOLD by government representatives and in official documents that there was an overwhelming community requirement that the sewer plant be located in the middle of town so a park could be built next to it, and that there were no alternatives, then you'd have no need to "apologize" since your decision -- based on the information you were given -- was a logical, reasonable decision. The fact that your logical, reasonable decision was based on false, unsurrported information isn't you fault. And, for example, consider the members of the RWQCB who singled out and put 45 citizens through the useless, pointless hell of a CDO kangaroo court. Their decision to do that would be reasonable IF they were informed that the people of Los Osos were all "anti-sewer obstructionists" who didn't care about clean water, opposed any kind of sewer, were obdurant, obstructionists and truly needed to be "punished." Given that kind of absolutely false information, the decision to "punish" The Los Osos 45 in order to set an example to a truly evil community would be a sensible thing to do UNLESS it turns out the information you were acting on was FALSE. And so forth. That's why "truth" comes before reconciliation and apologies aren't really necessary to understanding what happened here.
Inlet also sez:"Now some would be willing to pay more to have a wastewater plant out of town, but that is not the platform the recall candidates ran on. I wonder if they would have won had they promised us $250/month and out of town instead of $200/month in town."
Ah, but we'll never know what the cost would have been if the October Compromise had been allowed (encouraged) to go forward. supported by the SWB & RWQCB instead of having Roger Briggs encouraged to "fine the CSD (the community) out of existence." Or what the cost difference would have been if the recalled Board had allowed a serious chinese menu vote before digging up Tri-W & etc.
Mark sez;"When Paavo "If there is a significantly less expensive technology, then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away" Ogren uses the Design/Build Law as intended, the septic tank discharge solution will cost much less than $128 million that is currently assessed."
Is what the county is doing now really "design build?" Or some kind of pre-determined, pre-set, pre-designed/bid/build masquerading as "design build?"
Truth is in short supply so far for Lynette.
How is that search for Mr. Dean “I forgot his last name” going Lynette?
Are you going to give us a progress report or will you just come clean?
As you can see ignoring it isn't making that self made situation better with age...
But then you don't seem to careabout truth, do you?
Ann wrote:
"For example, if you were a member of the Coastal Commission and you were TOLD by government representatives and in official documents that there was an overwhelming community requirement that the sewer plant be located in the middle of town so a park could be built next to it, and that there were no alternatives, then you'd have no need to "apologize" since your decision -- based on the information you were given -- was a logical, reasonable decision."That's exactly right. And to put even a finer point on that, the Coastal Commission was told about the "overwhelming community requirement that the sewer plant be located in the middle of town so a park could be built next to it" by the #1 vote-getter from that government agency.
Who better to know about strongly held community values?
So, if the #1 vote-getter is telling you, as a Coastal Commissioner, that there's an overwhelming community requirement that the sewer plant be located in the middle of town so a park could be built next to it," you're going to listen.
Problem was, that overwhelming community requirement was a complete, bold-face lie, clearly.
That dynamic -- that the bad guys were/are respected in the community -- was/is a HUGE problem for Los Osos. The bad guys were/are parks commissioners, and citizens of the year, and Coastkeepers, and #1 vote-getters, and campaign materials managers, and first-name basis with every single local influential media member, etc.
So, when some little-known, smart-ass, foul-mouthed reporter shows up, and starts writing the truth about what those respected community members were/are ACTUALLY up to, you can understand the amount of traction it takes for the story to turn from the parks commissioners, and citizens of the year, and Coastkeepers, and #1 vote-getters, and campaign materials managers, and first-name basis with every single local influential media member, to the little-known, smart-ass, foul-mouthed reporter.
That transition will never happen quickly.
However, fortunately, according to the recent survey, WOW did it eventually happen.
Thank god for blog technology, and the traction it provides.
Gosh Ron, please keep your crap on your own web page. LOL
-R
LOL Richard proves Ron's points perfectly.
Must be all that clear fresh air and lack of fog...
Fortunately there has never been a real "reporter" from Santa Margarita...
MIKE:
It is a shame you can't keep up with the issues...
How is that research in Florida going?
Friends and relatives ever figure out what city they live in?
If they do live in Phoenix, they have a water supply that is NOT in overdraft.
Get it?
Got it?
GOOD! No joke...
Have you had a chance to help Lynette find Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name" yet?
Arizona Department of Water Resources
The Phoenix AMA has a statutory goal of achieving safe yield by 2025 (or earlier). All indications are that this goal will not be achieved at our current rate and under our current programs. We registered an overdraft of 251,000 acre feet in 1998. All credible projections for the year 2025 indicate that we will still be in an overdraft situation with some improvement from the 1998 level.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa!
Sorry MIKE, but that ADWR website isn't talking about "Phoenix".
Phoenix’s sustainability motto, “Living Like it Matters!” reaffirms the sustainability creed that guides its current programs and future plans.I know it’s hard for you to grasp that concept as you are in love with the idea of the county spraying away Los Osos' water, which just isn’t sustainable.
Apparently another State is post erroneous statements which can only be explained away by an uneducated sales person...
From the Arizona Department of Water Resources
"The Phoenix AMA has... registered an overdraft of 251,000 acre feet in 1998. All credible projections for the year 2025 indicate that... will still be in an overdraft situation..."
Maybe there is "another" Phoenix... Maybe there is another definition of "overdraft"... Maybe the "sales person" isn't nearly as credible as he/she/it would like Los Osos, the County of San Luis Obispo and the State of California to believe...
The question remains... why would a sales man continue to try to influence the Los Osos sewer situation...???? There are many more, more truly qualified Waste Water Treatment Engineering firms out there that it is simply a waste of time trying to communicate with a flip-flopping sales person who has been tossed out of the Los Osos sewer design..
Mike,
wsm will never, ever back down from anything he says. If he says "the sky is green" and you disagree, he will claim that you are colorblind! It's pathetic, I agree, but apparently he took some sort of salesman course that teaches "never admit you were mistaken." We should be rid of him soon, just like Tom "Wrecklamator" Murphy. These people always sink to their appropriate level...
I think the key here is that Mark really believes that when I originally wrote "Phoenix" I meant just the city and not the greater area including Mesa and the rest of the nearby communities.
While I've told him that he is incorrect in his assumption on this matter, he persists in thinking that he gets to redefine what I meant.
I suspect that he would go apesh*t, however, if I tried to redefine what he meant when he used words incorrectly. (Oh yeah ... he did over the word "census".)
Wasn't there an old rule for salesmen? "The customer is always right?"
MIKE,
Please read more carefully. The Phoenix Active Management Area is not Phoenix.
ABS,
Phoenix, Arizona is not in overdraft no matter how much you, MIKE, Steve, Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name" Lynette wish it to be.
Steve,
A survey is not a census, it is a survey. Ms. Lessons’ survey was bias and poorly responded to and use of the word “census” was evidence of her bias.
Lynette,
If Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name" is a real person, have you located him yet?
His existence was important to you once, why not now? You might want to begin thinking about a “real” answer to this important question that weighs so heavily upon your personal integrity.
You might start thinking about your future water supply, Phoenix is already covered.
So sorry folks but there is nothing incorrect or necessary to apologize for here.
I don't give a darn what that particular salesman says... He didn't make the "sale" in Los Osos... and SLO County has quit giving him the time of day... He's out, gone, his sales pitch failed...!!! The product may be good, but the assinine manner of the salesman killed off any chance of a sale...if the product is selected, you can bet there would be a much different individual talking with SLO County Engineering...
He never figured out that he wasn't the one setting the rules of the game or providing his definitions of good and evil... of overdraft and adequate... of septic tank and wreckedlamator... never did we see him drink the "output" of his then touted motified septic tank...
Inspite of his multitude of meaningless words he never understood the basics of marketing or of sales...and he probably didn't understand the distinction of either.... RIP
MIKE wrote: "if the product is selected"
WOW!
Karl Imhoff was a German engineer who developed sewage treatment systems in the early 1900’s. His biggest contribution was the Imhoff Tank, which allows sewage to settle.
The Imhoff Law relates to bosses everywhere. The law goes as follows: The largest chunks always rise to the top.
Mark,
Please read more carefully. the Phoenix Active Management Area is the greater Phoenix metro area.
Mark,
While you claim Phoenix, Arizona is not in overdraft, your unwillingness to offer proof of your claim makes me doubt it. After all, Phoenix is the largest city in the Phoenix AMA which is in a sorry state. I will go on record here and now as saying I don't believe you. I think you're making stuff up. I believe you're lying about the even the health of the aquifers of the City of Phoenix.
You made this into an issue back in January when you were trying to make me look bad ... but you are only able to do that by pretending that I meant only the City of Phoenix when I said that Phoenix was in overdraft ... something that I've clarified. No one but you thought I meant the City of Phoenix and not Mesa nor Glendale nor any of the other places in the metro area.
No matter, I simply doubt you can even prove that the aquifers in the City of Phoenix are healthy ... that the water table is at their historic levels, perhaps where they were back in the 1940s before the severe overdraft became big news.
If you have anything more bluster backed up by nothing, trot out your proof. If you can't (and you've been asked before and you've declined before) we will know, yet again, that you're "facts" are ex-rectum.
The Imhoff law also allows that wsm's statement can be one of those gaseous chunks that floats to the top!
Could someone please clear this up for me? I read in an article the other day pertaining to the Los Osos sewer and the article deffered to our "suspected leaking septic tanks". Through all of these years when any newspaper writes about the sewer saga, they mention the "suspected leaking septic tanks". It seems to me I have been led to believe it is the over-saturation of septic tanks that have contributed to our alleged polluting.
Wouldn't fixing the leak in the septic tank fix the problem?
Would asking who over saturated the town with septic tanks open some doors that some would rather not have opened?
Sincerely, M
M,
The problem isn't so much leaking tanks as it is that even if all tanks were functioning correctly, there are too many tanks per acre. (Admittedly, leaky tanks might be an issue, but it is never one which strikes me as huge because, after all, leaky tanks could be fixed.)
The problem with too many tanks per acre is that the bacteria in the soil has a limited ability to process nitrates.
Indeed, why do all the newspaper articles always mention "leaking septic tanks", but never over-saturated use of septic tanks?
Sincerely, M
Good question M ...
M,
If you notice in yesterday's Tribune front page story, the story on the study mentioned wrote that pollution was from surface run-off and farms reaching the creeks and ocean.
Hmmmmm.....
They discover this now?
Please note that the Trib has ALWAYS used the word "suspected".
That's because all the studies show septics aren't polluting.
By law, the RWQCB is supposed to correct problems when discovered, but since 1983 they've NEVER done any kind of septic survey or septic management plan to fix any problems.
Wow.
What a scam -- a $200 million dollar scam pulled on 4,500 homeowners.
Wow.
These people here have no clue what they've stepped into giving the project to the County.
Hasn't anyone noticed how easy it is for the County to ask for $100,000. more for Corollo or $1 million for a lobbyist and get it -- of course we in the PZ pay...it's just so easy for them to spend our money for us with no questions asked. The County claims they care about affordability, yet spends money with sole sourcing and have no intention of trying to save us any money at all. The more they spend, the more people have to go. Good for Starlings and Van Burden, bad for the PZ.
People better wake up and see that they'll be spending $100,000. grand each.
All part of the scam to get the poor and middle class out so the realtors and MWH can cash in big time.
What did people expect the County to do when AB2701 was achieved? Did they really think the County would do anything but the most expensive MWH sewer on the planet?
P.S. The $200 million dollar plus sewer WILL DO NOTHING FOR NITRATES. Note the last LOCAC where Mark H. was ask about this. It's a $200 million dollar hoax!
Giving more weight to the possibility of obtaining “stimulus” funding over the probability of real “savings” of a competing technology that is also eligible for stimulus, bet never ran is gaslighting.
From the film Gaslight, "gaslighting” acquired the meaning of ruthlessly manipulating an individual, for nefarious reasons, into believing something other than the truth.
Spending $1,000,000.00 for a DC Lobbyist didn’t do anything for affordability. Too bad the County can’t hire a disinterested third party advocate for the people…
Steve,
You continue to be wrong about Phoenix, Arizona.
I provided contact information and linkage on previous posts and suggested that you (or anyone) follow up with the City of Phoenix which is not the Phoenix AMA you and MIKE think it is.
Your opinion has nothing to do with the reality of Phoenix's water supply on the ground or under it.
The fact, as those responsible in Phoenix and I know, remains:
Phoenix is NOT in overdraft.
*********************************
Mr. Dean “I forgot his last name” Lynette wrote: “The Imhoff law also allows that wsm's statement can be one of those gaseous chunks that floats to the top!”
…………………………………… “Mr. Dean “I forgot his last name” is a “chunk” Lynette. Come clean and admit it so you may be forgiven.
Giving more weight to the possibility of obtaining “stimulus” funding over the probability of real “savings” from a competing technology that is also eligible for stimulus, but never run is gaslighting.
From the film Gaslight, "gaslighting” acquired the meaning of ruthlessly manipulating an individual, for nefarious reasons, into believing something other than the truth.
Spending $1,000,000.00 for a DC Lobbyist didn’t do anything for affordability. Too bad the County can’t hire a disinterested third party advocate for the people…
GetRealOsos states:
"By law, the RWQCB is supposed to correct problems when discovered,..."
OK GRO, please state the "Law" you are making reference to...
That should be very easy since YOU state it and that must make it LAW... I don't think you can find any Law that says the RWQCB is supposed (required?) to CORRECT any problem(s) they discover...
Really, aren't they in the ENFORCEMENT business...and Los Osos has been found to be in violation of Clean Water Laws and Acts...??? RWQCB is NOT in the business of correcting Los Osos "problem"... Los Osos has been determined to NOT in COMPLIANCE...
Los Osos was on the way to installing a WWTF which would have brought the community into compliance... but thanks to the CSD5 and their supporters, no correction of any problem has happened... Don't blame the RWQCB...blame those who stopped that legally permitted WWTF... There was nothing wrong with Tri-W, just a few extremists who didn't want any sewer, any where and at the highest cost possible...
This is a typical confused tactic GRO likes to make sound as being true... You are really just a bag of wind and don't know squat about what you write.... You simply make up your "Laws" with absolutely no truth behind your enuendo.... Like Ron Crawford, you never let facts get in your way...
Mike,
Come on, you know what I mean, the RWQCB is to address the problem when discovered.
It's a $200 million dollar scam and you know it.
I think Paavo was right when he stated from the beginning of the County takeover that the sewer costs could double. It will.
After all, it was the RWQCB's own resolution that a septic management plan be put into place twenty some years ago.
No GRO, I don't know what you mean... You tried to make it sound as if the RWQCB were responsible for "fixing" the Los Osos problem... You really don't seem to understand that is not the function of the RWQCB... They are the cops... What is that "Law" you stated they are supposed to be fixing Los Osos's problem....??? Los Osos has been judged to be polluting it's drinking water...
We actually had a system permitted and begun which would have begun the long term cleanup and in doing so, would have kept the RWQCB in the background doing inspections and enforcing the Laws we all helped place on the books...
Paavo is correct ONLY because the voters of this community allowed Gail and Lisa and Julie to stop that legal WWTF we had begun... You should be mad as hell that the small band of extremists have caused all the additional cost and delays....!!!!! Please don't be so stupid as to think that the high density of leach from all the septic tanks is not causing the greatest amout of pollution... You know and besides, there is a judgement that says we are... So end the delays and build a sewer... and not some bandaid, septic tank with a fan...
ARTICLE 6. GENERAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO ENFORCEMENT AND REVIEW
§ 13360. Manner of compliance(a) No waste discharge requirement or other order of a regional board or the state board or decree of a court issued under this division shall specify the design, location, type of construction, or particular manner in which compliance may be had with that requirement, order, or decree, and the person so ordered shall be permitted to comply with the order in any lawful manner. However, the restrictions of this section shall not apply to waste discharge requirements or orders or decrees with respect to any of the following:
There is no law that specifies that a leaky, energy intensive, environmentally disruptive gravity sewer be used to remedy CDO’s and NOV’s and Paavo "If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive, then that technology becomes the new standardand all others fall away" Ogren knows it.
The words "septic tank" appear 3 times in the California Water Law.
Technology makes it possib;e to point and click to prove it.
Septic Tanks and leach fields (or pits) are no longer allowed in high density (less than 1 acre parcels) residential areas of California.
...and Phoenix is still in an overdraft condition...
Mark,
You refused yet again to provide any evidence to back up your claim (funny ... Mark, the internet whiz cannot find a simple link which shows the level of the water table in Phoenix when called out as a liar). Second, your continued insistence on redefining the question to make yourself look less wrong ...
No matter ... you can always look up to Ron, a man who is so full-o-integrity that he deletes my comments and calls me "human garbage". No matter ... he still can't explain why "cheaper" costs us $50 more per month (for 20 years that's $12,000 less expensive for me ... thanks for taking credit, Ron, for making my life $12,000 cheaper).
There are other issues Ron has, but maturity and logic aren't two aren't two of them.
MIKE incorrectly wrote:...and Phoenix is still in an overdraft condition...
Prove it.
(You can't, the Phoenix AMA is not Phoenix.)
Don't get stuck on stupid.
Septic tanks are about to be "rounded up" and re-regulated everywhere in California.
Even on one acre parcels and larger.
Did your friends and relatives ever find out what city they live in???
You don't actually answer the questions that can help you understand what you think you are talking about.
Have you contacted Mr.Dean "I forgot his last name" Lynette to help her find that local ECOfluid represenative yet?
Steve,
I guess you, MIKE and everyone else who, for whatever reason, will not understand the fact that the Phoenix AMA is not Phoenix will continue to be stuck on stupid.
Steve,
Have you contacted Mr.Dean "I forgot his last name" Lynette to see if you can help her locate Mr.Dean "I forgot his last name", yet?
Mark,
You seem to have a problem understanding. It is only you who feel that the word "Phoenix" means the city only and not the greater metro area. However, even if you wanna use your narrow restrictive definition, the context of the water problems in the region would make evident the need for you to back up your claim ... which you haven't. Just because Phoenix has an active recharge project doesn't mean that they're not in overdraft.
This is getting boring.
You've already admitted that the greater Phoenix area is in overdraft and you've presented no evidence that the City alone (which in your mind only was the region we have been discussing) is not in overdraft.
How about we call it a day ... you can just apologize for misreading what I wrote and for not asking for a clarification before saying I was mistaken.
To not clarify what another person means before calling them wrong is truly being "stuck on stupid."
As for your pissing contest with 'Toons about some guy named Dean ... if the issue you are trying to raise by bringing it up again and again ad nauseum is one of credibility, you should clean up your own act before trying to make an issue of another.
Mark is acting like a child who lost a game and can't accept his defeat... Pout all you want Mark, but you only prove that SLO Engineering was correct in not allowing you to try changing the rules to submitting proposals...
He continues to play his silly blogging games of blame everone but himself for his failures... No where have I ever run into a sales person who tried so hard to fail and once dumped outside, continued to insult those who tried to show him where and why he failed... but Mark has some mental block to reality... His "product-of-the-month", whichever one he is flip-flopping to this month, was rejected, but he doesn't seem to get it... Mark is never going to see a commission check from SLO...!!!!
...and he is really overly defensive of his inability to comprehend that the Arizona Department of Water Resources has said the Phoenix AMA , which includes the City of Phoenix, is in an overdraft situation... Now instead of working with his own State, Mark choses to continue to butt his head against a rock wall in SLO County and Los Osos... For Mark to have continued for so long, indicates how big a commission he expected to make from Los Osos... There is something very wrong with Mark's continueing attempts to get back in the game here in Los Osos...
Here ends the lesson.
Phoenix is not in overdraft.
MIKE: Are you saying that the Design-build law will not followed?
SLO County is using California State Statute 20133 as their vehicle to do this design build project. The following excerpt is taken directly from
20133:
(d) Design-build projects shall progress in a four-step process,
as follows:
(1) (A) The county shall prepare a set of documents setting forth
the scope of the project. The documents may include, but are not
limited to, the size, type, and desired design character of the
public improvement, performance specifications covering the quality
of materials, equipment, and workmanship, preliminary plans or
building layouts, or any other information deemed necessary to
describe adequately the county's needs. The performance
specifications and any plans shall be prepared by a design
professional who is duly licensed and registered in California.
(B) Any architect or engineer retained by the county to assist in
the development of the project specific documents shall not be
eligible to participate in the preparation of a bid with any
design-build entity for that project.
(2) (A) Based on the documents prepared in paragraph (1), the
county shall prepare a request for proposals that invites interested
parties to submit competitive sealed proposals in the manner
prescribed by the county. The request for proposals shall include,
but is not limited to, the following elements:...
Mark writes:
"Here ends the lesson.
Black is white and white is black."Just because you say something doesn't make it so.
Why you expect us to simply believe you without any evidence makes me curious. I really wonder why anyone would expect to be treated as an authority without giving others a reason to do so.
Maybe if the information you communicated to the County was like this ... full of unproven claims and full of attitude ... it would explain why your ideas were rejected so quickly.
Word verification: sands
Steve,
Phoenix is NOT in over draft.
You, MIKE and ABS never answeredthe question regarding Mr. DEan "I forgot his lat name" Lynette.
The record stands.
"Now instead of working with his own State, Mark choses…"
Mike! Suppose wsm CAN'T work in his own state - for whatever reason - gee, I can't imagine! - but that would sure explain how he has so much time to waste on pushing things on us here!
Shark... Mark is in complete denial of his failures... He is only playing on this blog as his way of trying to salvage some respect...at this point he has NONE...!!!! Apparently the County only had to put up with him until they could say they had explored his comments... Legally now, he is out of any County works...
Hi 'toons... I've given him all the time I had, but no matter how much he continues to pout and stomp his feet, I'm not going to be drawn back into his game... There is something seriously wrong with his attitude...
Hi Mike, I agree! We've tried, but I don't think we are going to change his attitude.
So…I found this great site - maybe we can send him on his way somewhere else -
http://www.mcilvainecompany.com/brochures/Alerts_for_Internet/s27%20watwast/908%20New%20Wastewater%20Projects%20for%20September%2008.htm
Lynette,
Have you found Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name yet"?
Hey 'toons... about time to shake, not stir, a few... Been too long...
Mark,
I suspect that you haven't read the links you offered us earlier that "show" that the City of Phoenix isn't in a state of overdraft because no where in those links is there any discussion of the water table.
I'm calling you out as a lying sack of weasel dung.
Put up or shut up, my friend.
MIKE:
When you meet Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name" Lynette and after "a few" whouldyou ask her about Mr. "I forgot his last name's" whereabouts?
Steve, You are a little too creepy for me to consider you "a friend"...
Phoenix is NOT in over draft.
Phoenix’s excess water supplies are being stored or “recharged” underground in aquifers for future use.Phoenix is NOT in over draft.
Why not give the Phoenix Water Services Department a call at 602-262-6627 and try to get them to admit they are in overdraft.
Perhaps they can put you on to the infrmation that will prove your point.
While your checking that out can you see about Lynette's Mr. Dean"I forgot his last name"?
Mark,
Not only does the source you provide not say that Phoenix is not in a state of overdraft ... your very words would suggest that it is. In particular, there is no need to recharge an aquifer with excess water supply if you are not in overdraft. (Maybe you misunderstand what the word "overdraft" means and should look it up.)
Why spend money pumping water into the ground unless the ground has capacity to store that water?
Simply put, you brought only your own confusion about the evidence to the table. When you have some facts, come back. Until then, you may eat at the kid's table ... but if you are too obnoxious that it distracts the adults from our adult conversations you will be in a time out.
As for calling someone and trying to get them to admit they're in overdraft ... um ... that is your job. Try to see if the good people at that phone number have a document that shows the level of the water table in each aquifer used by the City of Phoenix and show that the water table in each (or on average) is at the same level as it was in 1940.
Until you can do this we'll know you're full-o-shit and saying things which are not backed up by evidence.
This is very much unlike me. The very state of Arizona DWR backs me up when I say that Phoenix (the metro area as a whole) is in a state of overdraft.
No wonder you wanna pucker up at Ron's butt so much ... you seem to have the same personality that he does ... that you can't stand people questioning your authority even if you are dead wrong on the issue.
Ron even argued that Maria supported dissolution of the LOCSD even when she said herself that she did not and even when the videotape of her statement said that she did not. Ron's basis for that claim was a mistaken set of meeting minutes where some clerk who wasn't paying attention mis-summarized her point of view.
Are you really relying on an argument of "Phoenix itself is fine even though the metro area as a whole isn't"? When I wrote of the health of the Phoenix aquifers I meant the whole area, not just those tapped by the city ... and you didn't even bother to clarify with me what I meant when I used the standard practice of referring to a greater metro area by the name of one of the cities of that area. Even though you were mistaken it was you who accused me of being mistaken. Now that the facts are well known here and it is clear that you were 100% wrong, you are not trying to save face.
In short, you're acting like a jackass and you know it.
If you had anything to demonstrate your (false) claims, you would have brought it out.
So ... considering this discussion is done and you've been shown to be in error ... are you gonna do the right thing and apologize for your errors?
If not, you should do the right thing and simply disappear.
Excellent Shark... simply excellent...!!!!!
"... lying sack of weasel dung." is an even better description than the Arizona Ass... although both (and more) are appropriate and correct....!!!!
Your logic was right on the... well nose is not quite the right end... and since he is "...pucker(ed) up at Ron's butt, one can readily see where the weasel dung comes from...
While the County can't officially condone your words, we all know they are all in agreement...!!!!
Have a great evening Shark....!!!!
Bravo Shark!! You so outclass that pompous windbag!! He is such a loser, he doesn't even know when he has lost. I think he doesn't have the chutzpah to make an apology, in fact, I'd bet on it. Another one of those fragile egos like ron's that would shatter to admit to a mistake.
It is bizarre that he continues to hang around here - game's over as far as he is concerned.
'Toons-
Equally bizarre is why Tom Murphy is still hanging around here. There is a bunch of new craziness on his website (lefthand side.) Apparently he is trying to do an end run around the County, and go straight to the Coastal Commission! This guy has lost what was left of his mind. The parts about signing up realtors to process paperwork, for pay, is just kind of loony. Some snakeoil salesmen never know when to quit...
Two Blind Mice and Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name" Lynette...
…Pitiful.
Traffic has really picked up over at Sewerwatch ... mostly it's Ron tooting his own horn (duh!) and threatening to ban other people besides me.
What is funniest here is that he cannot seem to put together a reasonable explanation of why he banned me ... only comments like "human piece of excrement".
I suspect that he's an illogical narcissist ... someone who is so full of himself that he cannot stand it when others question his mistaken conclusions.
Presumably if he were right about saving us money by having the sewer out of town, he would explain how our estimated $250/month solution is actually cheaper than the $200/month TriW.
I would also be interested in Ron's explanation of why he told us years ago that the CCC was pissed off about the TriW location when the most recent letter from the CCC to SLO County would indicate otherwise.
He also told us that Maria supported dissolution of the LOCSD when videotaped evidence showed him to be wrong. When questioned on the matter (and here is the absolutely amazing thing) he stood by his incorrect assertion rather than simply correct his mistake.
In short, Ron's claims seem chock-full-o-shit and he's unable to admit it when he's wrong.
Of course, that is not the reason I was originally banned. I actually forget why, but he does seem really ... um ... touchy when questioned.
Of course he's touchy -all he can talk about is the past. Ron doesn't live here any more but he still has a big hard-on for Pandora. Reliving past mistakes seems like an exercize in futility. Why Ann buys into this idiocy is beyond me, but may be linked to either Alzheimers or denial (AKA fingers in ears yelling 'la-la-la-la')Enough already. Just build it! If you bought your house during the Real Estate Bubble, you have my sympathy. Not empathy,sympathy.
Yeah...Ron is really fit to be tied as he is deleteing all posts that disagree with his fantasy.
On that note, and before he deletes my latest post on his blog, I am posting it here for all to read sans Ron's childish behavior.:
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Ron,
Ok...do as you please.
But before you do ban all those that question you, why not comment on the County's 'Statement of Overriding Concerns' as presented in the Staff report for the upcoming SLO County Planning Commission meeting?
Yeah Ron...as part of their process they are formulating their own 'SOC' as part of their project. You see Ron, the agency running the project is legally allowed to determine by whatever means they see fit to establish an SOC to shape their project. Nothing sinister here Ron...just the way project parameters are formed. The lead agency may use whatever method they wish to accept or reject project alternatives based upon whatever data they chose to use...regardless of what you think Ron.
Just as the County wishes to adopt an SOC rejecting in-town WWTF placement due to 'political concerns', the CSD had just as legitimate an argument in their SOC to place the WWTF within the community to offer park space.; which despite what you think is still in short supply in Los Osos (why do you think there has been a long-going effort to by the recall CSD to use the Tri-W site for Parkland?...simple answer in because it is needed!).
Earlier you pasted: "It is essential that any proposed wastewater project within the community of Los Osos reflect these strongly held community values (of) creating a wastewater treatment facility that is a visual and recreational asset to the community."
-- Tri-W Facilities Report, 2001"
AND you pasted "... we find that a statement of overriding considerations must be supported by substantial evidence contained in the final EIR and/or other information in the record."
-- Court of Appeal, First District, Division 4, California, Nov. 4, 1992"
Response: Reread the CSD's SOC Ron...need for parkland was only one of many project parameters used. It is a valid consideration when you consider the LOCAC Vision Statement formulated back in the mid-1990's; which is a substantial document formed over many years by community leaders; and that was used as the basis of the SOC. Any court would find the LOCAC Vision Statement as a valid basis for the SOC.
You pasted :"... other alternatives (to the Tri-W site) were rejected (by the Los Osos CSD) on the basis that they did not accomplish project objectives for centrally located community amenities."
-- California Coastal Commission, Tri-W Development Permit, 2004 (now expired)"
Response: The CSD had the right to determine for itself, based upon the LOCAC Vision Statement, an SOC that shaped a project; and those considerations were acknowledged as valid by the CCC.
++++++++++++++++++
At this time you need to CAREFULLY read the CCC letter to the County regarding their project on Turri Road (a different site than the one rejected by the CSD by the way). The CCC, the mother of all the permitting agencies, has told the County that their project is DOA.
The reasons their project is dead are:
1. Only Tertiary-treatment will be acceptable.
2. When you use Tertiary treatment, the land area requirement of a project will change such that using large land parcels is not needed; hence project direct and indirect impacts are drastically reduced by using much smaller land parcels. The conversion of Ag land for a WWTF is no longer justified in the view of the CCC.
3. The CCC has made it clear that they consider the loss of Ag land by converting it to WWTP use as far more egregious and non-complying with the Local Coastal Plan (LCP) than the loss of ESH (especially when the ESH is marginal like at Tri-W). Why are they so concerned about loss of Ag land...simply because Ag land cannot be replaced or mitigated (other than by converting urban land to Ag land). ESH on the other hand can be mitigated by establishing of an HCP (which was and is required by any lead agency developing a WWTP.)
4. The CCC considers ANY use of Ag land for a WWTF outside the established URL of the CSD as GROWTH-INDUCING...which is a cardinal sin that will quash any attempt by the County to get a CDP for ANY project located on ANY Ag parcel from the CCC.
5. Because the conversion of Ag lands for a WWTF is not permitted by the current LCP as there are other non-ag land alternatives that are located within the URL of the CSD to be served, the County stand that there are no other site alternatives is not supported by fact; nor will that policy stand up to CCC scrutiny.
6. The CCC has made it clear that they consider the CDP Conditions as reviewed and developed by the prior project as the 'gold-standard' which the County must use as a basis for their project. I suggest you read the CSD Conditions for the old project....there is far more there than just park land.
7. The final nail in the coffin of any attempt by the County to pursue an 'outside of town' project (hence forcing it back into the CSD district) is the CCC insistence that ANY site out of town will require:
a. The expansion of the CSD boundaries east of Los Osos Creek to encompass an out of town site. In essence, the County will have to ask out of town property owners to come into the CSD boundaries; which is a political project-killer for what property owner would want to be dragged into a CSD that will obligate their property to pay for CSD financial issues...like the BANKRUPTCY?.
b. The County will be required by the CCC to put together an AG LAND PRESERVATION PROGRAM in order to GUARANTEE to the CCC that an out of town location will not cause development growth. In essence, another project-killer for the County does not have the legal means (nor the years need to put together a program) to force large parcel property owners to agree to limit FOREVER the future use of their land.
In conclusion Ron, despite what you think, the CCC has forced the County to reconsider their project. As the County goes through the process and tries to develop other Ag sites, the above CCC issues will make those projects problematic and unviable too. Eventually you will see the County rejecting all out of town site altogether; and the return to an in-town solution....maybe even Tri-W.
Now THAT would be a story!
-R
10:35 PM, April 20, 2009 (on the Sewer Watch blog site)
Alabamasue - maybe drinking wrecklamated water has destroyed his few remaining brain cells?
The first "sewer exempt" community? I'll bet the Water Board is not amused!
"Emergency" Plan of Action? Does he even know what the Coastal Commission does?
Scary. Just plain scary.
Ron seems to have the hardest time talking about and relating to current events -- maybe because he's in Santa Margarita and away from the frontlines, I don't know. In the long run, his words don't fly off the page and become something that is truly tangible.
At one point, I'm thinking, "I want to believe what he says," but as far as citing third-party sources to verify his claims, he says, "As I mentioned on my blog..." Seriously, Ron? Did you manage to break your spinal cord into pieces after patting yourself on the back too many times?
Aaron, ron should be in a cast…
Over at sewerwatch I wrote:
Shark Inlet said...
Richard,
What you seem to forget is that for Ron, all of life is game of Six Degrees of Pandora.
Anything or anyone with a count of less than 2 is considered proof of duplicity.
Ron seems to think of the world as black and white ... under the influence of Pandora or in full agreement with Ron. I don't fall into the "close to Pandora" category in any way. Maybe that's why Ron bans me from making comments ... because he can't simply write me off they way he writes you off.
The funny thing here is this ... back in 2004 when I first started paying attention to these issues I read Ron and Ann and much of what they wrote made sense. I asked questions of people from all opinions and what it kept coming down to was this ... folks who supported TriW had more solid reasons for doing so. In particular, the cost of adopting an alternative location (or collection system or treatment technology, etc.) was most likely higher than TriW by the time we hit 2004. When asked about these issues directly, Ron either ignored the issue completely or typed out a feeble and nonsensical response.
One of the things I've learned in life is that when experts or others who claim to have knowledge repeatedly duck reasonable questions, either they're hiding something or they're pretending to be experts in something they are not like the Wizard of Oz.
At least Ann is far more reasonable and unlike Ron, isn't bitchy at all.
3:01 PM, April 21, 2009
We'll see how long it lasts. My bet is on less than 15 minutes.
Word verification (for Ron, I guess): dodouche
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