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Saturday, August 26, 2006

“ . . . A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes . . .”

This morning’s Tribune carried the news: “Osos CSD files for bankruptcy,” and goes on to state that the District filed on Friday in federal court, thereby becoming “the largest special district in the state to seek such protection from creditors since 1990.”

It was also noted that “Los Osos Board President Lisa Schicker said the board had no choice because of the sheer number of claims pending against the district. In all, fines, claims and debts to contractors add up to an estimated $40 million.” . . . “The board was particularly critical of the group Taxpayers Watch and state and regional water boards, which have fined the district for not building the sewer”

“Given the repeated assaults by Taxpayers Watch and the unwillingness of the water boards to work cooperatively with the district . . . the district simply had no choice,” Schicker said.”

It was noted that both Board members, Tacker & Schicker, stated that the district “needs the breathing room that bankruptcy protection will provide”

Well, not unexpected , but what blew coffee out of my nose was this: Halfway down the story was a quote from Pandora Nash-Karner, who said of the present CSD Board: “They’re like the teenager who got caught stealing the car. It’s not their fault. ‘Gee, officer, the stop sign jumped out in front of the car.’”

Not their fault?

For anyone unfamiliar with Pandora’s role in both the CSD and the CSD/Sewer Link, I suggest you visit Ron Crawford’s blogsite (http://www.sewerwatch.blogspot.com/) for an excellent History of Sewerville, so to speak – just click on the various links and caches and documentation, especially the piece Ron wrote for the Bay News documenting the timing of the CSD’s original formation election and the RWQCB’s decision concerning the Solutions Group’s Sewer Proposal, the $35-a-month Ponding System that the RWQCB had already disapproved of shortly before the election, a fact unknown by the majority of the community, but certainly known to the Solutions Group, a group of which Pandora was a key member and one of the first Board members on the newly created CSD.

For those who love beginnings, [It’s not my fault] it is there that the pebble was pushed off the hill by Pandora, the Solutions Group, the very first CSD, a pebble which became a boulder tumble, which became a landslide, which ultimately became the train wreck we’re dealing with today. Hip bone connected to the thigh bone. . . thigh bone connected to the . . .

And Pandora. as you will remember, was one who sent an email to Regional Water Quality Control Board Executive Officer, Roger Briggs, before last year’s recall was even certified, demanding that he “fine the CSD out of existence,” which he moved rapidly to do, first with an ACL and almost immediately afterwards with CDOs against The Los Osos 45. [It’s not my fault!]

For Pandora to now speak about the present CSD Board as if they were teenagers saying “It’s not my fault,” is genuinely, snort-coffee-through-your-nose, funny.

Next up in the Delight Department is the comment from Paul Hood, EO of LAFCo, the agency that will be considering whether or not to dissolve the CSD next month:” I’m sure everything will become crystal clear in the next five to 10 years. . . . Hopefully sooner.”

Gosh, ya think?

Well, would that it were so. The History of Sewerville, from the formation of the CSD to its possible dissolution, bifurcation, bankruptcy, whatever, would really be something to read. It would have to be written as a Tragic Comedy, or a Comedy of Errors with Tragic Consequences. It certainly would have a wild cast of characters including People Trying To Do The Right Thing, People Being Misled by Incompetent People While Trying To Do The Right Thing, People Pretending To Do The Right Thing So They Can Get Away With Doing The Wrong Thing, People Doing the Wrong Thing.

Toss in Hidden Agendas, Sly Thumbs-On-The-Scale Monkey-Wrenchers, Scientific Illiterates, Apathetic Voters, Media Asleep At The Switch, Absolute Failure of So Many Government Agencies and Regulators To Actually Do Their Jobs, Plain Old Greed, Egos Rampant On A Field of Political Expediency, Arrogance Run Amok, Unenlightened Self Interest, Lawsuits For The Right Reasons, Lawsuits For The Wrong Reasons, The Blind Medean Furies, A Bunch of Cut Down Dead Trees, The Law Of Unintended Consequences, and you have the making of an Epic! Cast of thousands! Call Cecile B. DeMille!

At this point, the list of unknowns is longer than the knowns: What happens to the Blakeslee Proposal? What happens to the Sewer Project? What happens at the LAFCo meeting? What happens to the CSD elections in Nov? What happens, What happens, What happens?

Well, as in all things here in Sewerville, Stay Tuned.

112 comments:

Anonymous said...

What took them so long! Good grief, even the Tribune predicted it.

Anonymous said...

This whiney Board makes me sick.

Lisa sounds like some little kid who, after breaking her mother's vase, then points to a sibling and says, "He made me do it!"

Anonymous said...

And the alternative?
A sewer in the middle of town? Is that what you (anyone) really wanted? Is that how you want your money being spent,hiding it? Decorating it? Tweaking and perfecting it, so it can be a forever force-fit? All of this mess just to later be fined by the RWQCB because it breaks down, spills, pollutes the groundwater or Bay or the fined by the APDC because it stinks? I think not. I don't even think the dogs wanted their lousy 1/2 acre Dog Park on top of a sewer plant. And the Tot-Lot? I'll take a dirty diaper for a few minutes over weaks of a sewer plant effecting business and home values any day!
Go LOCSD, the old Board set the course for BK, you had to execute the dasterdly deed -- its really just more consequenses related to their sick scorched earth pre-election construction clean-up, that's all this is. Do what you gotta do, sue Taxpayers Watch next if you can!

Anonymous said...

survey: Who is whinier - Lisa or Pandora!

Sewertoons said...

OK - who out there has actually VISITED a sewer in the middle of a town. Speak up - I'd like to hear your impressions!!

Anonymous said...

Hi All,

“Finger-pointing” and playing the "blame game" may make you feel better. However, bankruptcy is now a reality. I hope we can all focus on the issue of bankruptcy; how /if we can overcome it; and get on with our lives.

Remember that bankruptcy is a PROCESS the LOCSD will go through in order to correct a cash imbalance. We are now dealing with how the LOCSD shall provide services in light of its limited revenues against its very large liabilities.
Calmness, clarity, and understanding of this issue are necessary if the LOCSD is to survive.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Snowy Plover said...

If the LOCSD is like a bunch of teenagers joyriding in a stolen car, then Pandora runs the chop shop.
Anybody catch Paul Hood's comments on Taxpayer's Watch trying to get taxpayer's to pay for their LAFCO related expenses?
Hemsley is such a turd. Shameless.

Anonymous said...

sewertoons, if we would of gone with the County's $50-$70/month out-of-town plan in 1998 instead of listing to your better, cheaper, faster, liar friends at taxpayers watch, a middle of town sewer for over $200/month would be a non-issue. go fuck yourself.

have a nice day:)

Anonymous said...

Sewertoons:
I just wanted to apologize for my last post to you. And to everyone for all of my vulgar posts, identity stealing, and all around immature, vulgar and pathecically immature writing. It's just that I'm so doggone mad that this CSD has sucked, lied, bankrupted the community, and everything taxpayers watch said would happen has happened. And I'm mad about it. And since I dropped out of school in the 3rd grade, the only way I know how to respond is with second grade words. And to tell you the truth, I don't even own a house here. Or have a job for that matter. Heck, I don't even rent. I push a shopping cart around and try to catch some sleep at the Von's dumpster. I guess that's why I'm mad too. Anyway, apologies to all. All I wanted to do was give you all a little comedic releif. I hope I have.

Sincerely, Anon 2:39 (and all the other anon postings that look like they're written by second graders)

Anonymous said...

The reason that this all came down this way is one person. Pandora, who is piece of crap. Pandora sucks! Always has and always will! Surely she and her cronies will someday be held accountable for all the pain they have inflicted on this town and its good people. I believe in Divine Justice. May she and her cronies rot in Hell.

Anonymous said...

The very sad, week and incompetent attempt at sarcasm via "identity stealing" by anon5:03 is obviously a member of Taxpayers Watch who thinks that anybody who can't afford $300/month for a sewer is "riff raff".(are you taxpayers waste posters getting so desperate that you have to assume the identity of anonymous people?) This 5:03 post really says it all about the people of Taxpayers Watch. The distain they illustrate for the anonymous poor, unemployed, and homeless really just might reserve for them a very special place in Hell.
I'm sorry anon5:03. I don't think Jesus shares your distain and hatred for the poor, unemployed, and homeless.....

And, I must correct you once again anon5:03pm,

Taxpayers Watch anon5:03 says: "everything taxpayers watch said would happen has happened."

Sorry anon5:03, in 1998 when the County was set to build us an out-of-town sewer for $50-$70/month, Taxpayers Waste a.k.a the Solutions Group said they could do it CHEAPER, BETTER, FASTER. DID THIS HAPPEN? FUUUUUUUUUCK NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Eight years later, all they had to offer our community was a sludge factory next to the library for $250-$300/month. NOT BETTER. NOT CHEAPER. NOT FASTER. Taxpayers Waste has cost the community of Los Osos millions. By the way, it was your former asshole friends on the former CSD that bankrupted our community. On the eve of the election, knowing the people of Los Osos were about to run them out of town, they did everything they could to run the CSD into the ground. They engaged in a scorched earth policy and handed the new CSD an empty wallet. Did anybody find MWH's computers? lmao. What little money they had left was spent defending the community of Los Osos against law suits(something like 7or9 lawsuits) that were filed against our community by TAXPAYERS WASTE(watch). What little money they had after that was used to defend our community against fines and CDO's that were lobbied for by the Queen Demon Bitch herself Miss "fine the csd out of existence" Pandora Nash-Karner. This same person that promised us all cheaper, better, faster. What a lying sack of shit.

On a final note anon5:03, I may have dropped out of school in the 3rd grade. I may not even own a house. I may not even have a job. I might not even be, in your opinion, a lowly renter. Does this make me less of a human being than you? Well, I guess in your eyes it might. But, I still believe in God's eyes, every human being that walks the face of the earth is equal. Heck, i might even push a shopping cart around and try to catch some sleep behind the dumpster at Vons. I might be all the things you say. But, there is one thing I can do that you can't. I can spell PATHETICALLY. I guess, if I dropped out of the 2nd grade, then you must of dropped out of the 1st grade. But don't worry. Jesus loves you anyway.

have a nice day:)

Sewertoons said...

Anon 2:39 said:

"sewertoons, if we would of gone with the County's $50-$70/month out-of-town plan in 1998 instead of listing to your better, cheaper, faster, liar friends at taxpayers watch, a middle of town sewer for over $200/month would be a non-issue. go fuck yourself."

So are you blaming the Solutions Group because YOU believed them? Try blaming yourself for being stupid. However, you must blame, how about blaming the present liar CSD bunch for claiming they could build a plant for $100/mo. Where is it? (Oh yes, we would't lose the loan, we wouldn't be fined…) And what is the difference between the two groups then?

I'd say have a nice day, but I see with the huge burden of hate that you carry around, you couldn't. Pity.

Anonymous said...

I cannot believe the degree of childish behavior and name calling that is happening on this blog.

Everyone, listen up!

The original BOD thought they COULD deliver it cheaper, better faster. Only after they exhausted all remedies, did they realize that perhaps the County way would have been the best, as it would have gone in years earlier, at much less cost.

Now this new Board refuses to learn by history, so are doomed to repeat it. But, this time, with the egos and attitudes of two, true, died in the wool narcissists.

These two think they can call all the shots. This pisses off the really big guys in the game who make the rules.

Oh, and don't let me forget, these two have absolutely no concept of municipal finance, accounting, economics or anything, for that matter. Oh well, **they** think they're great.

So now, after they have hired some nincompoop who hired a gaggle of overpriced out-of-town attorneys, they now have the District in Bankruptcy.

Have you heard the old phrase, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

The original BOD tried it. They found they couldn't deliver it cheaper, but deliver it, they did.

The NEW board stubbornly refused to learn from the previous BOD's efforts, and thought they had all the time in the world, and decided to go to square one, and defy logic, and every state mandate regulating their choices. They thought themselves the "darlings" of California, with state officials smiling indulgently, going, "tsk, tsk" and letting them slowly learn, as they went along.

It doesn't work that way.

Now they are out of money, and they didn't even know this fact, until a previous Board member gave them spreadsheets and cash flow analyses that SHOWED them what was happening.

No, the blame, this time goes to the ego twins, and their moronic supporters.

A hasty resignation from all BOD members is mandated.

Anonymous said...

sewertoons says:"So are you blaming the Solutions Group because YOU believed them? Try blaming yourself for being stupid."

anon8:52 says"The original BOD thought they COULD deliver it cheaper, better faster. Only after they exhausted all remedies, did they realize that perhaps the County way would have been the best, as it would have gone in years earlier, at much less cost."

let me first thank you both for your admonition that the Solutions Group aka Taxpayers Watch completely screwed our town when they promised us all cheaper, better, faster. let me thank you both for agreeing with me that we would all be hooked up and paying $50-$70/month if we hadn't listened to these assholes who completely fucked this town over and cost us all millions and millions and millions.

let me say this to you sewertoons.....
you never cease to amaze me. just when i thought you've made the most ignorant and retarded most completely stupid statement that i've ever heard in my entire life, you out do yourself. you truly are the biggest idiot that i've ever seen post in a blog.........
sewertoon said:"So are you blaming the Solutions Group because YOU believed them? Try blaming yourself for being stupid."

i agree. i was very stupid for ever listening to anything your asshole Taxpayers Waste friends ever said.....listening to anything these people say is stupid. But, what is so comically stupid about your statement is this.......ok. let me relax and take a deep breath........
once again you said;"So are you blaming the Solutions Group because YOU believed them? Try blaming yourself for being stupid."

so, what you're saying here is..........
that if a dishonest person tells a lie to an honest person, it's the honest person's fault for believing the lie? is this what you are saying? are you saying that if you, sewertoons, tells someone a lie, it's ok because if they believe you it's their fault? what a truly sick and twisted upsidedown world it is that you must live in. this is the sick and twisted world of Taxpayers Watch....a world that despises the poor and unemployeed homeless, a world where it's ok to lie because if people believe you it's their fault. what a very sad and sick and twisted and pathetic world it is you live in sewertoons.

anon8:52 said this:"Have you heard the old phrase, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

yes anon8:52, i have heard this one. you're exactly right. the Solutions Group aka Taxpayers Watch fooled me in 1998 when they lied to all of us about better, cheaper, faster. what a crock of shit lie that was. they fooled me in 1998 and i will never let these assholes that completely fucked this town over and cost us all millions fool me again. i will never listen to anything anyone of these selfish cock sucking mutha fuckers says again.........

anon8:52 also says this:"I cannot believe the degree of childish behavior and name calling that is happening on this blog."
then gos onto call the supporters of the CSD morons by saying this;"No, the blame, this time goes to the ego twins, and their moronic supporters."
i guess my questionis this anon8:52.....
if you admonish people for childish name calling in one breath then call someone a moron in the next breath, does this make YOU a childish moron?
i apologise for my foul language. it's the only way i can convey my true feeling for the assholes that screwed our town over. But, at least i'm not a fucking hypocrite like you.

at first i just thought that Taxpayers Watch was an arrogant group of aristocrats that didn't give a shit about anybody but their own self-interests. Then, i just thought they were stupid. then, i just thought they were mean. now, i think they are all of the above. the really sad thing is that i now believe these people are beyond help. this statement by sewertoons proves it. i use to be mad at taxpayers watch for all the division and dammage they caused to the good people of los osos but now all i feel for them is pity. may God have mercy on your souls. the people of los osos will not be so quick to forgive.

Anonymous said...

"Surely she [Pandora] and her cronies will someday be held accountable for all the pain they have inflicted on this town and its good people. I believe in Divine Justice. May she and her cronies rot in Hell."

Rose Bowker was the first to fall... may the rest soon follow.

Churadogs said...

One Anonymous sez of some more anonymooses: "that you have to assume the identity of anonymous people?)"

That's funny. How can you assume the identity of anonymous persons? Anonymous is anonymous and there's none to say that the original anonymoooses aren't one in the same. For all any of us know, all the anonymooses are just one person. Or twenty.

Anonymous sez:"the former CSD that bankrupted our community. On the eve of the election, knowing the people of Los Osos were about to run them out of town, they did everything they could to run the CSD into the ground. They engaged in a scorched earth policy and handed the new CSD an empty wallet. Did anybody find MWH's computers? lmao. What little money they had left was spent defending the community of Los Osos against law suits(something like 7or9 lawsuits) that were filed against our community by TAXPAYERS WASTE(watch). What little money they had after that was used to defend our community against fines and CDO's . . ."

Not to beat a dead horse, but in all the sound and fury now swirling around, I hope the community will remember that the road to bankruptcy was lined with connections. Connections aren't necessarily "blame" but they're critical. And each player who had a hand in forging those links is responsible for the next step. And because it's the way our system works, each decision leads to another one, with certain players blocking the way back, the way out, forcing the community ultimately off the cliff. That's simply the way the whole system is set up. Toss in hidden agendas and monkey wrenchers and it really gets difficult.

I was semi-joking, when I used the old song, Hip bone connected to . . . But only semi-joking. At several key points in this saga, other paths presented themselves and were not taken. Those key points and key choices are vital to understand, lest we repeat them all over again.

But the community cannot correct or watch out for what it is unaware of. That's why it's so important for people to pay attention. Each step, each small step, is linked to the next step. Miss ONE of those steps and we'll find ourselves heading off a cliff again, with another group of people locking open the throttle and madly hurling coal into the firebox.

This community needs to make sure up front that the DIRECTION is right, before laying so much as one foot of track. This community needs to make sure that there are built-in COURSE CORRECTION mechanisms to take advantage of future events that may appear (i.e. huge fissures in the earth that open up in front of the train line suddenly; if you have no mechanism to correct course for the unexpected, your train will fall in . . . again)/ This community needs to be awake enough to see that any course correction events are actually paid attention to (unlike the asleep at the switch "bait & switchy" Coastal Commission de novo hearing, a perfect 'course correction" opportunity that was missed).

Let's not just repeat bad history, please.

Anonymous said...

a few words for some of the posters:

Anonymous 11:53 PM, you have missed my point completely. (My post of 8:52 PM.)

The first Board worked in good faith.

This Board is working by spite, ignorance and bullheadedness.

Your opinion and your method of expressing it show the fanaticism of the very few who still support this BOD. You are in the minority.


And as for YOU, Anonymous 4:00 AM,
to malign a deceased person who worked as hard for this community as Rose Bowker did, is horrible.

"All that you send into the lives of others comes back into your own."

Or, to put it into words that someone of your lack of intellect can understand, "What goes around comes around."

You may find yourself on the receiving end someday.

Anonymous said...

Hi many Anons above,

Just a few observations.

I supported the County plan in 1997. I knew then that the Solution Group, while well intended, was naive to believe that their plan would be accepted by the regulators or cost less. But by working through the process they came to understand their error, and proceeded with a plan that would bring us into compliance with the law, feasible, and funded. I understand the anger of some Anons who feel betrayed; however, what sense does it make to throw out the Tri-W project when any project that replaces it will be even more expensive. There comes a time when we have to put aside anger and go with what we have in order to come into compliance with the law. Either that or face massive fines and expensive CDO's AND a more expensive project.

Regarding Taxpayer Watch. That group has filed TWO lawsuits NOT SEVEN. The CSD has filed FIVE lawsuits, and the contractors and State have cross-sued on those 5 lawsuits. Since the Recall the CSD has expended about $1,800,000 in attorneys fees. Of this amount, less than $80,000 has been used against the Taxpayer Watch lawsuits. In fact, the CSD has spent far more settling past CCLO lawsuits with their own attorneys ($450,000) than they have ever spent fighting TW. So for the CSD to blame TW for the bankruptcy is not based in reality and obviously a political red-herring.

I hope we can all calmly resolve our common issues. Now that the wastewater project is out of our hands, we should assist the County.


Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

I have a question for Mr. LeGros (expert on bankruptsy, having been there himself)
When you and your pals saw that you were not doing too well, why didn't you just run with the countys $50-$70/mo plan? You could have saved all this mess. Of course you would have had to eat a little crow, but look how well you could have served LoSo. You would have been friggin' heros......almost.
To annon 8:49 or :52.....may God have mercy on you lost soul.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 3:28 PM said"

"To annon 8:49 or :52.....may God have mercy on you lost soul. "

With grammar like this, my answer HAS to be, "Yo Mamma".

Anonymous said...

Anon said... "What goes around comes around."

You may find yourself on the receiving end someday.


Those were my thought exactly when I wrote my comment about Rose Bowker.

Many people have said in the past she would get hers for whay she inflicted on this town... I was just making the connection.

"What goes around comes around"

I guess it came.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anons 3:28 and 7:13

Speculating over what could have happened IF 'this or that' happened is interesting. However, dealing with the reality of today is far mor interesting.

The solution to our common problems does not lay in blaming others nor thinking bloody thoughts about those you blame. It may make you feel better; but reality (CSD bankruptcy, risingg sewer costs, violation of the water laws, impending CDO's, etc.)is still there.

Let us deal with it.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Mike Green said...

Richard wrote:
"Let us deal with it."
Richard, I respect you to no end, but sometimes you make the, in my opinion, worst possible statements.
Poor political skills may have got you recalled, How many votes needed to be changed recall time to prevent (some of) the sewer mess?
I don't doubt for a minuet that your offer of help was genuine.
As a Los Osos resident, I thank you.
and I regret my vote against you.
But lets let "them" solve it now, the less baggage the better.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous 7:13 PM:

You are indeed a rotton SOB to be saying something about someone deceased. What a complete bastard you are.

People like you and like Al Barrow, who used to dance around in front of the audience before the Board, and point to his eyes and then point to Rose Bowker, should have indeed been put on the street like any common disruptor of the peace, or any distruptor of a public meeting.

THIS is what disgusts me personally:

People who think they can just call out, or shout out, or cat-call or malign ANYONE in a public meeting: A meeting designed for anyone,- ANYONE- within the public, to make a comment, without fear of reprecussions from bullying bunch of rowdy cowards who can only pick on those who are older, or smaller or weaker or physically disabled. ALL OF YOU dissenters have gone beyond the pall, and I am surprised that someone has not called you to task for your behavior.

You have behaved abominably, threateningly, intimidatingly, and have violated the very tenets of Democracy. YOU morons are the reasons that reasonable people do not come to meetings. There are plenty of people whose intellengence far outweigh yours; who could, in any equal verbal contest could render you totally impotent. You, the bullies, have nothing to offer except your cretin brute force. YOU should have to stand and be accountable to everyone in the community, for your malignment of those gone, and your disservice and dishonor of those who have given their service to this community.

I'm sorry but God will NOT have mercy on any soul that is as corrupt as yours.

YOU, Anon 7:13 will fry in hell.

May the devil fly away with you!

AND, by God, good riddance!

Anonymous said...

And, may I add an Irish curse from long ago, that I will not share with you now, but should complete the message from Anonymous 10:54.

Guess what?

I am sending it to you now, and at the full moon.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mike,

My intent has always been to help; why not give back to the town that has given me so much?

While I am not one to opine about what “ifs", I will concur that my political skills in a crowd are lacking; but get me in an small group and I will perform. My personal failure was not being able to heard above the clamor (of those bent on stopping the Tri-W project) in order to clearly inform the public what would happen to Los Osos and its CSD if the Tri-W project was stopped. Overcoming the fears of others is an almost impossible task.

I am unclear as to your last sentence about "them". Since the recall I have given "them" all the space they needed to make policy without my interference. I have stayed away from the new board, public meetings and he public eye for one reason....... so that they could take full credit for their own policies, behavior, methods of relating to other agencies and the public, the handling of CSD administrative matters, and CSD financial issues. What today’s board has done is now history.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

"YOU, Anon 7:13 will fry in hell."

I will say hello to Rose for you when I get there.

Anonymous said...

WOW..........barely 24 hours and we have a few more posts from the solutions group aka taxpayers watch aka idiots on display........

anon10:18 says:"The first Board worked in good faith."

Richard Le Gross said:
"I supported the County plan in 1997.(ahemm, ahheeem,...........BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!) I knew then that the Solution Group, while well intended......"

let me see...........

"The first Board worked in good faith."
"I knew then that the Solution Group, while well intended?..."

Nice try.

We, the people of Los Osos, might of bought this sort of spin and LIES back in 1998.
Sorry. We're not as stupid as you hope we might be.
We are sick and tired of your BULLSHIT SPIN AND LIES.
And, we are not buying it anymore.........

It is very well documented that your asshole pals, that we all know now as the Solutions Group aka Taxpayers Watch, We all know now, that these FUCK WADS, who have completely screwed over our community, FULLY KNEW THAT THE CHEAPER, BETTER, FASTER PONDING SYSTEM IN THE CENTER OF OUR TOWN had already disapproved by the RWQCB. Let me make this as simple as I can possibly make it.....

In the real world(not the world of Taxpayers Waste)
If you're selling something, with the full and complete knowledge that what your selling doesn't exist, this is what we out here in the real world call LYING.
It's not called "working in good faith." it's not called "well intentions", IT'S CALLED LYING!!!!!!
Do you taxpayers watch DIPSHITS know what a bait and switch is?..........i'm sure you do.....your bait and switch cost this community MILLIONS.
I really do hate to use foul language but ......FUCK YOU, YOU MUTHA FUCKING ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anon10:18 goes on to say:"Your opinion and your method of expressing it show the fanaticism of the very few who still support this BOD. You are in the minority."

I really, really do love this one.

This was tha mantra of "Save the Dream" before the Recall Election...........
Dreamers are on record at at CSD meetings before the recall election and still today(most recently Lou Tornatzky stated at a recent parking lot CSD meeting that the community doesn't support the CSD and that it should be dissolved.....GUESS WHOSE WIFE IS RUNNING FOR A SEAT ON A GOVERNMENT BODY THAT HER HUSBAND HAS SIGNED ON TO DISSOLVE? LAUGHING MY ASS OFF.....LOU TORNATZKY SIGNED IN BLOOD, A STATEMENT OF RESOLVE TO DISSOLVE THE CSD(I HAVE IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME) I guess we know who wears the pants in this family.
From your wife and all of us.....UP YOURS LOU, YOU BIG FUCKING PUSSY!!!!!!

Now, where was I?
Oh yes, Anon10:18 goes on to say:
"Your opinion and your method of expressing it show the fanaticism of the very few who still support this BOD. You are in the minority."
Yes, I love it.
Dreamers are on record at at CSD meetings before the recall election and are still today foolishly claiming today that "the people who are agaist the TRI-W PROJECT and that support the CSD are just a handful of "obstructionists" who show up to CSD meetings........

well, there you go again, this is what you ARISTOCRATS claimed throughout the recall campaign and still claim............

Let's examine this...............

You had five times as much money as us............
You out spent us 5-1 on advertising............
You had FUCKING CAMPAIGN COMERCIALS ON THE "TODAY SHOW"!!!!!!!!!!!
and guess what?
you still lost.
in this day and age, where the "money" will win 99 out of 100 elections...........you still lost.

This truly shows how morally bankrupt the position of Taxpayers Watch is.

Richard Le Gross, you are bankrupt. You are bankrupt in every possible way known to mankind. You have bankrupted yourself. You have bankrupted our Community. And, you are morally bankrupt(How big, in your words, are your FUCKING BALLS?) You are completely BANKRUPT. I appreciate your offer of help. Thanks. But, NO THANKS!!!

Richard Le Gross goes onto say:"Regarding Taxpayer Watch. That group has filed TWO lawsuits NOT SEVEN. The CSD has filed FIVE lawsuits, and the contractors and State have cross-sued on those 5 lawsuits. Since the Recall the CSD has expended about $1,800,000 in attorneys fees. Of this amount, less than $80,000 has been used against the Taxpayer Watch lawsuits. In fact, the CSD has spent far more settling past CCLO lawsuits with their own attorneys ($450,000) than they have ever spent fighting TW. So for the CSD to blame TW for the bankruptcy is not based in reality and obviously a political red-herring."

I guess my question is this DICK.....my I call you DICK? As in DICK HEAD. Gee DICK, If you hadn't of started a project that this Community voted against, in the face of all your money and advertising, how many contractor lawsuits would there be? If you hadn't of approved a sole 50% overbid, how many contractor lawsuits would there be DICK? No, I think I'm going to stop calling you DICK. I think I shoud call you by your real name.......HOW MANY CONTRACTOR LAWSUITS WOULD THEIR BE IF YOU HAD REPRESENTED YOU COMMUNITY INSTEAD OF ACTING AGAINST THE WILL OF YOUR COMMUNITY DICK? Oh sorry, I was going to call you by your real name. It's not DICK. It's Montogomery, Watson, Harza and Barnard Construction's COCK SUCKING BUTT BOY BITCH..........
How many lawsuits would there be if you hadn't sold-out your community you COCK SUCKING BUTT BOY BITCH, DICK LE GROSS?
Call all the problems that Taxpayers Watch has caused this Community a red-herring if you want COCK SUCKING BUTT BOY BITCH, DICK LE GROSS, whatever it is, Taxpayers Watch does reek of dead fish. It's time to wrap you up with Abraham Hyatt and the Tribune and and all the flys that are attracted to you and toss you out into the garbage. I would flush you down the toilet but I don't want to pollute my ground water. Sorry.

On a last and final note........
anon10:18 said: "you have missed my point completely. (My post of 8:52 PM.).......

No. I'm sorry anon10:18, you and DICK LE GROSS have missed my point completely(anon 7:27 PM August 26, 2006 & 11:53 PM, August 26, 2006)

I will use YOUR CLICHE anon10:18am ..........
Fuck me once, shame on Taxpayers Watch. Fuck me twice, shame on me.
My point is, that it was the VERY BAD decisions of the Solutions Group aka Taxpayers Watch, in good faith or bad, that led to the mess we are in right now. Which is it? Were they LYING TO US or DID THEY JUST FUCK-UP REALLY, REALLY BAD? It's one or the other. EITHER TAXPAYERS WATCH ARE A BUNCH OF FUCKING LIARS OR THEY ARE INCOMPETENT and screwed us out of the 1998 County plan. If it weren't for their BAD DECISIONS we would all be hooked up to the 1998 out-of-town County plan and be paying $50-$70/ month.
Even Dick Head Le Gross and anon10:18 agree with me on this....good faith or bad these folks fucked-up big time......

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:28 above,

Please see a phychiatrist. You have serious mental problems.

Richard LeGros

Churadogs said...

A Richard Le Gros sez:"Regarding Taxpayer Watch. That group has filed TWO lawsuits NOT SEVEN. The CSD has filed FIVE lawsuits, and the contractors and State have cross-sued on those 5 lawsuits. Since the Recall the CSD has expended about $1,800,000 in attorneys fees. Of this amount, less than $80,000 has been used against the Taxpayer Watch lawsuits. In fact, the CSD has spent far more settling past CCLO lawsuits with their own attorneys ($450,000) than they have ever spent fighting TW. So for the CSD to blame TW for the bankruptcy is not based in reality and obviously a political red-herring."

Are you forgetting that the recalled CSD majority voted to go into court to block Measure B.BEOFRE THE ELECTION? I have no idea if Jon Seitz advised against that move in closed session -- if he didn't, he should have -- since that pre-emptive move cost the taxpayers big time since the settlement, as expensive as it was, was still way cheaper than the fixed "formula) that the court very likely would have imposed. Big financial hit for the community, caused by a really bad decision of the "old" board.

The next really bad decision that probably was the coffin nail in this CSD was the recalled board's decision to pound millions of the communities' tax dollars into the ground before the recall vote. Richard has claimed he had to do that to obey the law. With the 90 day stand-down clause in the contractor's contracts (written in there by Seitz) the recalled board had an option. Which they didn't use. Which was probably the final blow that guaranteed the bankruptcy -- some have called it a "scorched earth" policy. It certainly recklessly and needlessly gambled and lost millions in tax payers' money, that's for sure.

As for the breach of contract suits: somebody want to explain why the contractors are suing for "lost profits" when I believe their contracts clearly state that they're not entitled to "lost profits" (deliberately written into the contracts by Seitz), only reasonable start up costs, & etc?

It seems to me that the bankruptcy was just the inevitable outcome from several key mistakes set in motion by the recalled board.

Also, folks really need to keep in mind choices made by Roger Briggs, choices that were always available from 1998, but never taken. He is perhaps THE key player in this train wreck. If you doubt that, go back to watch the video presentation presented at the ACL hearing and watch the stricken look on Rose Bowker's face when she notes, at a CSD meeting, that the Board doesn't have enough technical, scientific, geological information to make a sound decision about the Broderson/TriW sites & etc., and Bruce Buel agrees but notes that the Board MUST vote anyway to meet the [later described 4 times as "unreasonable" by Buel] deadline set by . . . Roger Briggs and the RWQCB. Bad science leading to bad decisions leading to a train wreck, driven by a "unreasonable" timetable set by a man holding a gun to the head of the Board and the community.

Before anyone curses Rose, they had better go review that tape and think about the implications of what happened that evening. Think very carefully because you're seeing the deadly fault-line in what's happened out here from day one.

I would also ask that the foul-mouthed "anonymoooses" stop to ask where their real fury is coming from. If you can calm down enough to step back and look at the SYSTEM, you'll see the cogs and connections and links, critical points where decision A locked both the CSD and the community into Direction B, and ask yourself Why and how it's possible to have a System that allows for no course correction and/or a System that's being run by a person with a gun who allows no course correction?

In the case of Los Osos, The SYSTEM failure is complete, from County Planning, up through the Coastal Commission to the State Water Board. It's amazing and should engender fury, but everyone should be sure they're furious at the right targets for the right reasons.

More important, unless this community understands the system failure, it may end up being repeated.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ann,

First, Measure B is not legal on many levels. Never was, never will be. For the Distrust not to point out the Measures' illegalities prior to the recall would have been irresponsible. In fact, the passage and enactment of Measure B guaranteed the loss of the SRF loan.

Second, Los Osos has been out of compliance with water quality laws for over thirty years. The state had waited long enough for a solution to be implemented; and would fine and prosecute homeowners if the project stalled. The project was completely designed and permitted. Contracts were signed with contractors and the State in JUNE of 2005. To stop the project anytime past June would have resulted in the financial meltdown that has occurred. All money spent prior to the recall was well spent for it was spent to BRING LOS OSOS INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW AND TO PROTECT HOMEOWNERS FROM THE STATE. A ninety day stand own would not be approved, let alone allowed, by the State; as the new board found out very quickly.

The blow that caused bankruptcy was the decision by the new board on OCTOBER 3, 2005 to suspend the project; a decision that was made without any concurrence from the State. STOPPING THE PROJECT / PROCESS caused the damage.

You complain about the "process". Well, you'll be happy to know that the "process" now is in the hands of the County as far as the waste water project is concerned. Go sell your opinions to them.

Meanwhile, today’s reality is that the LOCSD is in bankruptcy; which as you know my cash flow analysis predicted. You failed to understand the analysis; and wasted your time trying to discredit them. Again, stop wasting your time playing the "shame and blame game" and FOCUS ON REALITY.

IF and/or HOW to overcome the CSD bankruptcy is the only issue on the plate now. FOCUS !

Regards, Richard LeGros

Shark Inlet said...

Richard has a good point. If the newly elected board wanted to move the site of the WWTF they could have at least talked to the state about it first.

Had Measure B been written differently (read "legally") and had the new board gone to the state saying "we need to pause construction while the legality of Measure B is determined by the counts" they could have had a better chance of getting the WWTF moved. Admittely the chance would still be less than 1% in my humble opinion, but some other problems could have been avoid.

Ron said...

Yikes... step away for a long weekend, and all of sudden everyone wants everyone else to fry in hell.

Ann said:

"At several key points in this saga, other paths presented themselves and were not taken."

and an Anon said:

"I have a question for Mr. LeGros (expert on bankruptsy, having been there himself)
When you and your pals saw that you were not doing too well, why didn't you just run with the countys $50-$70/mo plan? You could have saved all this mess. Of course you would have had to eat a little crow, but look how well you could have served LoSo."


That is so well put, and that certainly was one of those "other paths" moments, huh? They could've, should've, and didn't (not that we should play the "blame game," or anything like that. Right, Rich?)

Want to see something interesting? Consider Anon's post above, and then the following from Three Blocks. I wrote it in September, 2004:

If the "drop dead gorgeous" element of the project wasn't dictating the location and type of the sewer, there's a fairly good chance that the final resolution would have been - some quick jargon here - an SBR sewer type at the so-called Pismo location.

Why is that important? It is the exact project the county was proposing for over a decade, when the estimated cost of the project was some $30 million less. The county's plan was shelved after the CSD was formed under less-than-clear circumstances, and county taxpayers picked up the roughly $5 million bill that came from the preliminary planning and, by all reasonable accounts, frivolous and expensive extra testing that was demanded by Los Osos residents of the original county project.


They didn't choose that path, and that path would have meant eating a lot of crow, not a "little."

Foul-mouthed Anon (hey, that person may, indeed, have a very foul mouth, but he/she also makes some very good points) said:

"It's not called "working in good faith." it's not called "well intentions", IT'S CALLED LYING!!!!!!"

That is exactly right.

I'm so sick of the, "We were just doing what we thought was right for the community," take.

There was a mountain of credible evidence that clearly showed that what the Solution Group/initial CSD Board considered "right" for the community, was the absolute wrong thing for the community -- and the the Solution Group/initial CSD Board was fully aware of all of it.

And that mountain of credible evidence also shows, that the Solution Group/initial CSD Board lied... about a lot of very important things.

Foul-mouthed Anon also said about Taxpayer Watch's world:

"... a world where it's ok to lie because if people believe you it's their fault."

That is a brilliant observation. And, yep, that's their "behavior based marketing" world, and Los Osos has been living in it for the past 10 years. Ugly stuff.

Ann said:

"In the case of Los Osos, The SYSTEM failure is complete, from County Planning, up through the Coastal Commission to the State Water Board."

Don't forget the Trib.

"It's amazing and should engender fury..."

Yep, and yep.

Richard said:

"All money spent prior to the recall was well spent..."

Richard, that is just simply a horrible take. All you had to do was side with Julie and Lisa, and vote to move the recall election up one month -- one f-ing month -- and that initial, multi-million dollar SRF check never gets pounded into the ground. That was reckless, and a complete waste, and you're calling it "well spent."

I think I speak for all California taxpayers outside of Los Osos that, to date, have picked up that tab for that ditch in the middle of your town and your ripped up streets, when I say: We do not agree with your definition of "well spent," Richard.

I've said this before: If a government board is up for recall, that board shouldn't be setting the date for the recall election. That is just asking for problems, and that part of the election code needs to be changed.

Shark Inlet said...

Ron,

As always you reveal your bias.

You are quite quick to call the Solutions Group liars instead of well intentioned but overly optimistic about their ability to bargain with the RWQCB and SWRCB yet you are very reluctant to say that the new board is exactly the same even though the evidence against them is considerably clearer. They said that SRF loan wouldn't be lost even though two of them were there in person when they were told by the SWRCB (the board itself, not the staff) that the loan was specific to the site. They told us that we wouldn't be fined, yet it appears that we have been. The funny thing about this is that we were told in advance by the RWQCB that stopping the project for any reason would result in disciplinary action and in particular, that Measure B and the election of new board members didn't change the RWQCB time schedule order.

So, Ron, how do you justify giving a pass to the new boardmembers when they've clearly screwed up our community far more than the previous board did.

Oh yeah ... I forgot ... you only blame people who were elected prior to 2004 and that you only care about the location and you don't think that cost or legal obligations matter in any way at all.

My bad for thinking you care about us.

Anonymous said...

Shark, I've been trying for some time now to get the Ron/Ann twins to commnet on the following statements, with no luck at all:
1. We'll get a sewer for under $100.00. We're ready to go.
2. We won't lose the SRF loan.
3. We won't get fined. The water boards are paper tigers.
If what the old board did is called lying by Ron/Ann, what do the above statements constitute? I mean Jeez, if they lied, say they lied Ron/Ann. If you think they are completely innocent and received bad legal advice, or bad McPherson advice, say that. If you think they were just naive, well, by golly, just say that. But how about saying anything Ron/Ann? Anything?

Shark Inlet said...

To our most recent anonymous friend ...

I have a theory about Ann and a theory about Ron that would explain their silence.

Ron first. I believe that he is involved in our mess for sport. He found some interesting stuff a few years ago that made for a good article or two and since then he's been trying to link everything to his earlier theories. He refuses to comment on new stuff unless he can spin it into an advertisement for why his take is right and why we should view Pandora as the devil. He has consisently refused to discuss issues which we in Los Osos care about (the cost) in favor of arcane documents (which I believe he misinterprets to say that the CCC didn't really mean it when they approved of the TriW project).

Ann next. I believe that unlike Ron, Ann cares deeply about Los Osos and the impacts of the sewer on our community and especially on those in greatest financial need. However, years ago when she saw the price tag growing for the project, she decided that we couldn't afford what was being proposed. Since then she's focused on getting the project changed to something that is better and more affordable (in the long run). The problem is that she doesn't have the background to understand that by 2005 (or even 2001) that any change in the TriW project that wasn't mandated by various agencies "above" the LOCSD (like the CCC or RWQCB) would raise our costs.

Essentially I believe Ann to be simply unwilling to admit that (to quote our friend Ron) she "f*cked up" when she trusted Gail and Lisa and Julie to be wise enough to accomplish the goal of moving the plant and lowering the cost.

Now that the writing on the wall isn't just faint but is in thick permanent marker for all to read, it is, indeed, sad that neither Ann nor Ron can admit what pretty much everyone but the current board, Linde Owen and the Coopers know ... the project is going to the County, the County will build the cheapest project (read "TriW") and those in Los Osos will be paying waaaaaaaaay more for our sewer than had we simply not voted in the bozos in September.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ron,

Nothing in your very silly blog is worth responding to. Take your rant elsewhere.

Hi Ann,

Nice to see you at the CSD office this afternoon; but you flew by so fast that howdy-do's could not be exchanged. Maybe next time, hmmm?

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

And Shark, that vote last year is every bit as significant in the history of this sewer mess as anything that Ron and Ann are obsessed about in the past. Every bit. The ramifications of that vote are seen in record proportions with the LOCSD: the loss of the SRF; the size of the fines; and the size of the bankruptcy. And that vote was very, very much predicated on people's belief that "One hundred dollars. We're ready to go. We won't get fined. We won't lose the SRF loan." Ron/Ann's silence on this CSD's culpability in this mess is unconsionable. (Well, Ann's more than Ron's, since Ron, as you said, has blinders on and is just always reliving his glory days.)

Anonymous said...

To Anon 1:57:

I sympathize with you on this point!

In Ann's defense, a careful reading of all of her comments/blogs/opinion pieces, etc. shows she is very very careful to focus the criticism on an action leaving the rest to implication.

For example, phrases like "pound millions into the ground" or "bait-n-switch", etc. It is as if the more times a catchy slogan is repeated, the more valid it is suppose to be. Enough times and one might conclude that there was an official finding of this somewhere.

Plus, she, actually makes some income from her writing and avoids biting the hand that will feed her!

Ron, on the other hand is a reclusive hack that has some writing talent but lets some past perceived slight or grievence get in the way of moving forward with his life. He seems to be fixated on 1998 or so.

And he has no problem calling others liars and worse and deliberating distorting facts for agenda purposes: e.g. turning a phrase into a sentence thereby changing the context completely, (Ron, you remember the Sorrel Marks quote you manipulated from a water board hearing?)


So, don't expect either Ann or Ron to admit any mistakes by the current BOD as they are not investigative journalists.

If they were, they might feel compelled to report both sides, and what fun would that be?

Shark Inlet said...

To our anonymous friend ...

You are right. Muckrakers (both Ann and Ron seem to want to fill this role) tend to be even-handed and motivated out of a sense of right and wrong.

The very fact that they are silent on the issus of this new board even though you (and I and others) have asked them for quite some time to comment makes me wonder whether they are embarassed because they would have to admit they were horribly wrong, blinded by their partisan beliefs that Pandora=evil and Julie=good or whether they are modern day versions of Dr. Pangloss.

I am less concerned now about the current board (Sam having effectively stripped them of their only power) than in the make-up of the next board. Will the new, post-November board take action to sue BWS, McClendon and WillDan for malpractice. I would think that good cases could be made that McClendon, Blesky and Biggs offered this board advice that they should have known was faulty and that in some cases did know was faulty. Furthermore I hope that someone will soon circulate a petition to recall Lisa and Julie at the next possible election (June?).

Anonymous said...

Wait a minute, Mr. Sparks. You want to get into MORE LITIGATION? Geez, you're making it hard for those of us who are considering voting for you! And you want to start MORE PETITIONS? Maybe you should stick to engineering which you seem to be pretty good at.

Anonymous said...

What I see happening here if I paid attention to Shark Inlet,is this sewer will be built at Triw at whatever cost just because it will be the quickest way to comply. How about twenty years down the road and the, then, Los Osos residents are stuck with an energy guzzling sewer plant in the middle of their town? A sludge factory.
And your talking about a good case could and maybe should be made of bringing up charges on Julie and Lisa and the rest of the board by the new ones elected? Do you want to pick up the legal cost?
You know, what really irratates me is if this whole dilemma is so important, why do we sit here for months at a time for any hearing dates to be set? Can't any of these agencies maybe up our priority just a bit so we can finally resolve this thing.
What about the contractors suits. How many years is that going to take to resolve? There is no way theyr'e going to receive the full 40 million or so that theyr'e sueing for. Wy can't we step that up a little bit and get this thing done?
If the County was ready to go with a project at Pismo st, why can't that be ressurected? They already have plans and everything. Unless the old CSD board convinced them to burn them.
That twenty year timeline I used at the beginning of my post, is about how much longer I figure iv'e got left. I've lived here for 35 years now so that means I will have spent virtually my entire adult life riddled with this sewer.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anon above,

Nope, the County does not have plans "ready to go" for Pismos. No permits, no land, no righ-of-ways, NOTHING. It would take years to gather together all the permits. Time is money folks. The quicker they resolve this, the less expensive it will be.

Also, it you study my life-cycle cost comparisions analysis between the Tri-W and Ripley plans, you will see that I have included 3.5x's higher operating costs for Tri-W over the life of the project as comparted to Ripley. Despite the difference in operating costs, Tri-W was less expensive overall per month to the property owners.

If you wish for a copy of the cost comparision analysis, email me at archrbl@aol.com

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

Richard Le Gross said:
"I supported the County plan in 1997.(ahemm, ahheeem,...........BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!) I knew then that the Solution Group, while well intended......"

let me see...........

"The first Board worked in good faith."
"I knew then that the Solution Group, while well intended?..."

Nice try.

We, the people of Los Osos, might of bought this sort of spin and LIES back in 1998.
Sorry. We're not as stupid as you hope we might be.
We are sick and tired of your BULLSHIT SPIN AND LIES.
And, we are not buying it anymore.........

It is very well documented that your asshole pals, that we all know now as the Solutions Group aka Taxpayers Watch, We all know now, that these FUCK WADS, who have completely screwed over our community, FULLY KNEW THAT THE CHEAPER, BETTER, FASTER PONDING SYSTEM IN THE CENTER OF OUR TOWN had already disapproved by the RWQCB. Let me make this as simple as I can possibly make it.....

In the real world(not the world of Taxpayers Waste)
If you're selling something, with the full and complete knowledge that what your selling doesn't exist, this is what we out here in the real world call LYING.
It's not called "working in good faith." it's not called "well intentions", IT'S CALLED LYING!!!!!!
Do you taxpayers watch DIPSHITS know what a bait and switch is?..........i'm sure you do.....your bait and switch cost this community MILLIONS.
I really do hate to use foul language but ......FUCK YOU, YOU MUTHA FUCKING ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anon10:18 goes on to say:"Your opinion and your method of expressing it show the fanaticism of the very few who still support this BOD. You are in the minority."

I really, really do love this one.

This was tha mantra of "Save the Dream" before the Recall Election...........
Dreamers are on record at at CSD meetings before the recall election and still today(most recently Lou Tornatzky stated at a recent parking lot CSD meeting that the community doesn't support the CSD and that it should be dissolved.....GUESS WHOSE WIFE IS RUNNING FOR A SEAT ON A GOVERNMENT BODY THAT HER HUSBAND HAS SIGNED ON TO DISSOLVE? LAUGHING MY ASS OFF.....LOU TORNATZKY SIGNED IN BLOOD, A STATEMENT OF RESOLVE TO DISSOLVE THE CSD(I HAVE IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME) I guess we know who wears the pants in this family.
From your wife and all of us.....UP YOURS LOU, YOU BIG FUCKING PUSSY!!!!!!

Now, where was I?
Oh yes, Anon10:18 goes on to say:
"Your opinion and your method of expressing it show the fanaticism of the very few who still support this BOD. You are in the minority."
Yes, I love it.
Dreamers are on record at at CSD meetings before the recall election and are still today foolishly claiming today that "the people who are agaist the TRI-W PROJECT and that support the CSD are just a handful of "obstructionists" who show up to CSD meetings........

well, there you go again, this is what you ARISTOCRATS claimed throughout the recall campaign and still claim............

Let's examine this...............

You had five times as much money as us............
You out spent us 5-1 on advertising............
You had FUCKING CAMPAIGN COMERCIALS ON THE "TODAY SHOW"!!!!!!!!!!!
and guess what?
you still lost.
in this day and age, where the "money" will win 99 out of 100 elections...........you still lost.

This truly shows how morally bankrupt the position of Taxpayers Watch is.

Richard Le Gross, you are bankrupt. You are bankrupt in every possible way known to mankind. You have bankrupted yourself. You have bankrupted our Community. And, you are morally bankrupt(How big, in your words, are your FUCKING BALLS?) You are completely BANKRUPT. I appreciate your offer of help. Thanks. But, NO THANKS!!!

Richard Le Gross goes onto say:"Regarding Taxpayer Watch. That group has filed TWO lawsuits NOT SEVEN. The CSD has filed FIVE lawsuits, and the contractors and State have cross-sued on those 5 lawsuits. Since the Recall the CSD has expended about $1,800,000 in attorneys fees. Of this amount, less than $80,000 has been used against the Taxpayer Watch lawsuits. In fact, the CSD has spent far more settling past CCLO lawsuits with their own attorneys ($450,000) than they have ever spent fighting TW. So for the CSD to blame TW for the bankruptcy is not based in reality and obviously a political red-herring."

I guess my question is this DICK.....my I call you DICK? As in DICK HEAD. Gee DICK, If you hadn't of started a project that this Community voted against, in the face of all your money and advertising, how many contractor lawsuits would there be? If you hadn't of approved a sole 50% overbid, how many contractor lawsuits would there be DICK? No, I think I'm going to stop calling you DICK. I think I shoud call you by your real name.......HOW MANY CONTRACTOR LAWSUITS WOULD THEIR BE IF YOU HAD REPRESENTED YOU COMMUNITY INSTEAD OF ACTING AGAINST THE WILL OF YOUR COMMUNITY DICK? Oh sorry, I was going to call you by your real name. It's not DICK. It's Montogomery, Watson, Harza and Barnard Construction's COCK SUCKING BUTT BOY BITCH..........
How many lawsuits would there be if you hadn't sold-out your community you COCK SUCKING BUTT BOY BITCH, DICK LE GROSS?
Call all the problems that Taxpayers Watch has caused this Community a red-herring if you want COCK SUCKING BUTT BOY BITCH, DICK LE GROSS, whatever it is, Taxpayers Watch does reek of dead fish. It's time to wrap you up with Abraham Hyatt and the Tribune and and all the flys that are attracted to you and toss you out into the garbage. I would flush you down the toilet but I don't want to pollute my ground water. Sorry.

On a last and final note........
anon10:18 said: "you have missed my point completely. (My post of 8:52 PM.).......

No. I'm sorry anon10:18, you and DICK LE GROSS have missed my point completely(anon 7:27 PM August 26, 2006 & 11:53 PM, August 26, 2006)

I will use YOUR CLICHE anon10:18am ..........
Fuck me once, shame on Taxpayers Watch. Fuck me twice, shame on me.
My point is, that it was the VERY BAD decisions of the Solutions Group aka Taxpayers Watch, in good faith or bad, that led to the mess we are in right now. Which is it? Were they LYING TO US or DID THEY JUST FUCK-UP REALLY, REALLY BAD? It's one or the other. EITHER TAXPAYERS WATCH ARE A BUNCH OF FUCKING LIARS OR THEY ARE INCOMPETENT and screwed us out of the 1998 County plan. If it weren't for their BAD DECISIONS we would all be hooked up to the 1998 out-of-town County plan and be paying $50-$70/ month.
Even Dick Head Le Gross and anon10:18 agree with me on this....good faith or bad these folks fucked-up big time......



Dick Le Gross said:"Please see a phychiatrist. You have serious mental problems."

notice Dick Le Gross doesn't dispute the facts. Dick doesn't dispute the facts because he can't. everything stated in this post is true. All Montogomery, Watson, Harza and Barnard Construction's COCK SUCKING BUTT BOY BITCH Dick Le Gross can do is take a cheap shot. how sad.
why would ann want to stop and talk to you? why would anybody what to stop and talk to someone who is hell bent on destroying our community? i use to see you and gordon about town all the time before the recall election and now i never see you. are you guys afraid that we will impale, tar and feather and disembowel and burn your screaming flesh until you rot in hell? then, ride you out of town on a rail? don't worry, we're not that mean. all we ask is that you butt the fuck out. you and your self-admitted policy of not supporting the 1998 County plan or turning back to it when you still had the chance has cost this community MILLIONS. Havn't you done enough damage?

Shark Inlet said...

Jeez, I wish the anonymouses would just pick a name... it would be easier to see who is who.

Just so that you know, I (shark inlet) am not Joe Sparks. While I intend to vote for him because he seems the best choice we have now, I want you to know that anything I might say should not be though of as coming from him.

As to whether litigation is wise ... if we're bankrupt and we owe $40M to various contractors and the like and if it is partially because of faulty advice given to us by organizations and individuals who have malpractice insurance, it might be a good idea to sue to recover some funds. Let's rephrase this a bit. Due to the actions of our current board, we're each on the hook for another $8k. Wouldn't you rather be on the hook for only $5k? Would you be willing to gamble (essentially any lawsuit is a gamble) lawyer fees to recover these funds. The next board will have to consider this option. If they don't, they're not representing us very well.


"energy guzzling" ... perhaps you've not noticed my calculations that that suggest that the energy costs would have to skyrocket before TriW would be more expensive than the Ripley option.

"sludge factory" ... perhaps you would rather not have a MBR plant ... but be prepared to pay more for it ... the Ripley plan as currently designed is more expensive than TriW ... it is okay to prefer a different system but it will cost a considerable chunk of change. I would guesstimate that after the RWQCB makes modifications and after the various lawsuits by neighbors of Giacomazzi property are resolved the Ripley plan would run us $400+ per month. Do you really think that it is worth an extra $150/month just to avoid a "sludge factory"?

If Julie and Lisa and Dan and the rest have done anything illegal, the cost of prosecution would not fall on the residents of Los Osos but instead the County, State or Feds (depending).

As to the Pismo site, the County had some tentative plans (imagine just a step past where the Ripley plan is now) but those can't likely be resurrected any cheaper than we could go forward with Ripley. The County has those plans and, I'm sure that they will consider the option carefully.

As to how long this mess will last ... I guess it depends on a lot. Essentially you can put the blame on the solutions group for delays and cost increases associated with their plans (please read Richard's comments on that one) and I'll put the blame on CCLO and LOTTF and the like. Maybe it is fair to say that both are at least in large part to blame.

What to do next to solve our problems? Well, the County will take over and we only have to deal with the debt issues.

Shark Inlet said...

Maybe Ann ought to consider restricting posts to at least those with formal screen names. It least then we could give a name to our foul-mouthed friend.

Anonymous said...

Richard Le Gros sez:"If you wish for a copy of my cost comparision analysis, email me"

Considering, Mister Le Gros, that you have not only bankrupted yourself but our community, what makes you think we want any advise from you regarding cost?

Anonymous said...

i see shark doesn't dispute the facts either.......ty shark

Anonymous said...

Ripley over-estimated the cost of his project at $100 million.
The TRI-W project last year was estimated at $170 million which means by the time it gets built(it never will) it will cost over $200 million. Let me see......
Who should i believe? Richard Le Gross who acted in collusion and is in the pocket of Montgomery, Watson Harza and the only 50% overbidder Barnard Construction, the Richard Le Gros that is supported by Taxpayers Watch who lied to us all about cheaper, better, faster, and cost this community millions and millions and millions? No, I think not. Like a former anon said; "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I think I'll go with Ripley's numbers. Sorry Richard, you and Taxpayers Watch have lost all creditability.
p.s. Were the vindictive lawsuits really necessary? I guess if your goal was to bankrupt the CSD they were.

Mike Green said...

Sharkey bubbled:
" Jeez, I wish the anonymouses would just pick a name... it would be easier to see who is who."
I came up an idea a long tome ago, just use the last two words they write. Works great, and sometimes it's a little amusing.
I think it's getting rather easy lately, most anons have a distinctive style, although I do admit the "smart pills" episode had me going for a while untill the author revealed themselves.
Namespoofing is old hat, and easy to catch.
I kind of wonder about you though, when will you reveal your identity?
The sewer wars are ending, it's become a proxy war for Los Osos, we'll get to comment, but we wont have any meaningful input about it from here on. (ouch, I just bit my tounge)
Maybe Jon was right, time to let it rest.
The Bankruptcy thing on the other hand is interesting, and the CDO crap is still hanging.
Is there any logical defense to spending one more dime of the taxpayer's money on the "Mad Pumping Scheme"?
Individual homeowners have NO say at all anymore about when and where a sewer will be.
They will get a prop 218 vote (ultimatum) It'll pass.
To me this is a no brainer, kind of like the idea itself.
Banckruptcy seems to be a prudent decision to me, at least it will get the finances into the hands of a court appointed actuary, heck, that should make both you and Richard happy.
I think for future use a timeline graph might be usefull in completly understanding the terrific failure of government in Los Osos. I'm sure we are the poster child of how to "do do it wrong" (joke for the old timers).

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:12:

Wow....honest to god you are one sick, sick person. Almost Al Barrowesque in your delivery. But I am so happy you are a supporter of the current regime. Really, reading you is all anybody needs to know about the sewer saga. And without diving too deep down to your level, really, did your parents ever once teach you anything about civility? Or maturity? Did you have parents? If so, are they proud? Anyway, this blog you have hijacked has lost its credibility with your presence. Which I'm sure makes you very proud. Now go ahead, get your dictionary, and curse me out. You must be so proud.

Mike Green said...

I just had a Brilliant Idea!!!
When the Wave Wall at TriW gets built, lets put up a Los Osos Sewer War Memorial.
A nice brass timeline graph of every link in the road.
What a hoot.

Mike Green said...

We could charge admission, help us get out of debtors prison.

Anonymous said...

Dick Le Gross, shark inlet and anon7:01 refuse to address the facts of my posts. they can't address the facts of my post cause everything i said is true.
they know everything I said is true. the facts speak for themselves. the fact that your only response is to call me "sick" shows how philosophically and morally bankrupt you are. how sad for you. the truth hurts, doesn't it Taxpayers Waste. i'm sure that facts of my post may you feel sick. if someone was out their showing the whole community how the Solutions Group aka Taxpayers Watch completey and in everyway possible divided and destroyed and ran this Community into the ground....if someone was out there showing the whole community that if it weren't for Taxpayers Waste, we'd all be hooked up and be paying about $60/ month. I guess the only response i would have left would be to try and discredit the person by calling them "sick". nice try. sorry. you've been exposed. you fucked us all big-time and we're not going to buy your bullshit lies anymore.

have a nice day:)

Mike Green said...

And here we stand at the end of that graph.
Coulda woulda shoulda.
meaningless now.
There is still a little hope, small, insignificant.
That the Government that we ultimately trust to see to the overall well being of ALL the citizens of our state will help in a way that is envisionary, learn from the mistakes, adapt to new technology, take a chance on success.
Empower communitys to succeed, not look to them as cash cows, but as partners!
Why Cant We All Just Get Along!


Damn, spent to much time at the entertainment center on top of my septic tank!

civil rights, not incivil wrongs said...

Ann:
Please take down the postings with the awful cursing, swearing, foul-mouthed personal attacks. Your blog deserves better. It shouldn't read like the near-illiterate scrawlings of rest-stop bathrooms.

The same points could be made without resorting to such dreadful language. It does not reflect well on the Los Osos community.

Mike Green said...

Dear Anon above, Ann dose not have the ability to edit the comments.
She can allow them all or turn them all off.
I know, I'm a registered commentor.
It is what it is.
(and I'm damn happy for it)

Mike Green said...

Oops I ment DARN happy!
(your point is well taken on my part)

Anonymous said...

Why should anyone read this crap?

Fools commenting on the blog of a fool! And a load of scum bags thrown in!

Give it up!

Shark Inlet said...

Mike,

I do like your idea of using last phrase of an anonymous poster ... but if that same poster uses another phrase at the end of the next posting it still gets a bit messy.

When will I reveal who I am? Dunno. It still feels a bit "unsafe" to me among some friends (perhaps including a current board member) so I would rather not be known by name.

Maybe in a few years.

I like your wave-wall-timeline-of-shame idea but doubt that the price of admission would actually lower any of our bills very much.

As to Ann's control over the blog comment section she (or greg) can choose to allow comments from only those with a "Blogger display name" like me and you. Someone desiring to make crude comments would then be known by a name (and easily ignored if that was your choice). Essentially it would be far too painful to re-register with a new "Blogger display name" every time you want to make a new post, so new folks would develop identities and make it easier to keep track of who is who (even if we don't know real names).


To our anonymous friend who says that I didn't address any of the facts he raised ... I didn't know that you had asked me to. When reading thru postings here I tend to skip to the next post if I see profanity or a real lack of clarity of thought ... rambling, if you will. So, if you would be so kind as to re-state your questions or issues I would be happy to address them ... as long as I can find them. Just to address one of the issues you raise, it takes two to tango. If you're going to view TW as taking a destructive path you should realize that folks in TW view CCLO as taking an unwise destructive path. Along those lines, one can argue that in every way that the solutions group and original board was evil/bad/shortsighted/naive, the new board is just as evil/bad/shortsighted/naive. If you get to pick your poison ... why would you choose to drink both? Once we had chosen in 1998-2001 to go with the solutions group plan of WWTF in the center of town, it is horribly unwise and very expensive to change the location of the WWTF. This is all to say, once the first damage had been done, should we compound it with even worse carnage? I think not!

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:12,

My advice still stands. Please get medical help.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Anonymous said...

Shark,
I have a question for you.
Since you often tell us about inflation and rising costs, will the TRI-W site still be the cheapest way to go or will it be built at the original 50% over bid?

To: Anon 4:57 (yo' mamma)
You are an ass hole!(sorry Shark)

To Mr. LeGros:
You mentioned that you try to "stay away from the CSD,etc.
If this is true, why are you spending so much time at their offices? I understand you seem to live there lately. Would that you showed this much interest when you were in office. You had your chance to serve your community, and muffed it, so why don't you take your charts and cost estimates and just fade off into infinity, thereby doing us all a favor.

Churadogs said...

Richard LeGros sez:"First, Measure B is not legal on many levels. Never was, never will be. For the Distrust not to point out the Measures' illegalities prior to the recall would have been irresponsible. In fact, the passage and enactment of Measure B guaranteed the loss of the SRF loan."

I have no idea what you were told by Seitz in closed session, but the "illegality" or "legality" of Measure B wasn't the issue. The issue is the track record of this state in punishing anyone who tries to block a vote. The track record with the courts statewide for years is, go vote no matter how cockamamie the initiative is, THEN toss the thing thing out. The failure of the recalled board (you) to understand that legal prescedence put the CSD in deep financial doo-doo even before the recall. The new Board had to either gamble that they would, indeed lose the case and be slammed with a "formula" set in stone, for up to three times what they actually settled for, or settle what they settled for. Either way, it (you) cost the taxpayers a bundle. That's not "blame." that's just what happened.

Inlet sez:"Had Measure B been written differently (read "legally") and had the new board gone to the state saying "we need to pause construction while the legality of Measure B is determined by the counts" they could have had a better chance of getting the WWTF moved. Admittely the chance would still be less than 1% in my humble opinion, but some other problems could have been avoid.

9:27 AM, August 28, 2006 "

Had the NEW board??? Seems to me that's what the OLD board should have done BEFORE signing the 40% over bid contracts. The OLD board knew a recall election and measure B vote was coming down the pike, the OLD Board also could have told the SWB to delay sending the first chunk of SRF $$, told the contractros and the SWB that they were going to exercise their 90 contract stand down, not to panic and do antying stupid like yanking the loan, etc. The OLD board could have not started work, rushing to pound $$$$ into the ground only weeks before a recall and Measure B election. The OLD board had many options but did not take them, thus precipitating the train wreck that ensued.

Inlet sez:"Now that the writing on the wall isn't just faint but is in thick permanent marker for all to read, it is, indeed, sad that neither Ann nor Ron can admit what pretty much everyone but the current board, Linde Owen and the Coopers know ... the project is going to the County, the County will build the cheapest project (read "TriW") and those in Los Osos will be paying waaaaaaaaay more for our sewer than had we simply not voted in the bozos in September."

Again, you're not reading what I've repeatedly written: Stay Tuned. Nobody knows, yet, what the costs will turn out to be. You can add up any numbers you want, but until the "real" numbers come in, you're still dancing on the head of pins. Plus, as I've pointed out repeatedly, the Tri W numbers you're using didn't include a lot of "deferred costs."

Inlet sez:"Maybe Ann ought to consider restricting posts to at least those with formal screen names. It least then we could give a name to our foul-mouthed friend.

6:18 PM, August 28, 2006 "

I'll email Greg (whose blogsite this is,) to see if the blog site is set up to allow for that. So far as I know, I can either turn off the comment section entirely (which I doubt would make any of you happy -- Ron did that once and got no end of grief over it ) or if there's some way of requiring registering a name other than "anonymous." (It's hard to permanently block potty-mouths if they long on as anonymouses, unless there's a way that the blog can track them back to their email accounts and block that particular email, in which case they can still hack in using someone else computer? Anyway, I'll check.

"Anonymous sez:"Why should anyone read this crap?

Fools commenting on the blog of a fool! And a load of scum bags thrown in!

Give it up!

11:10 PM, August 28, 2006"

Let's hope this was posed with tongue firmly in cheek?

Shark Inlet said...

About the question of whether the County will go with the bids that were 40% over estimated ...

I dunno.

If the bids the LOCSD got last year were, indeed, far higher than they should have been (because of any threatening letters or supply and demand issues associated with the risks and time schedule order or whatever) one would presume the County could do far better on the bids. If, on the other hand, the overbids were justified, we'll have to pay that ... plus inflation once the job goes out for re-bid. (Unfortunately Dan cancelled the contracts so the County cannot just pick them up.)

No matter ... the key here really is time and getting a system the RWQCB will approve. If you like the Ripley idea and location or the Pismo idea and location and if they really are good choices, the County will go with those sites instead of TriW. However, as Ripley and Richard have shown (between them), the cost of the Ripley plan is far higher than TriW. No one has contested Richard's analysis. One would think that Julie (who reads here from time to time) would have had some specific issues to point out if there had been any real error in analysis.

So ... we are likely left with the same options ... TriW at a high cost and out-of-town at an even higher cost. The problem is that now both options are saddled with an additional $40M in debts. Even if those debts can be bargained down to $20M that is still an extra $4000/household ... no matter what the County chooses.


To Ann ...

You are right that Richard's explanation for why they voted to sue to stop Measure B sounds pretty weak. However, when you recall that Measure B was ruled illegal in every way and that it has caused no end of trouble for our community, I have to say that that whatever the LOCSD board's reasons were for suing to block Measure B, the decision was the right one. Are you seriously asking us to believe that the board shouldn't have opposed Measure B? Are you seriously asking us to believe that the LOCSD should have taken no action to prevent a travesty?

On the point that the new board could have played their cards differently once elected, your only response is to say that the previous board did something stupid. Fair 'nuff. But, once in office, shouldn't the new board have done something different? Is there anything you can point to (such as their decisions to put Bruce and Jon on a permanent "ignore" list and then to stop construction) that may, in retrospect, have been a mistake? Many of us feel that this decision was a huge mistake. Do you?

About the deferred costs? What are they? Freshwater dams to prevent saltwater intrusion? State water? Doesn't the Ripley plan have those same problems? Unless you can identify particulars that I've overlooked, your words are sounding ... um ... empty to me. I believe that I came up with a fair way of comparing the two plans and if I've missed something, please let me know. (Hell, if I were fully honest, I would say that the TriW plan deals more clearly with more of our water (ground, waste, salt) issues than does the Ripley plan, so if anything it would appear to me that I've been cutting the Ripley group a whole lot of slack.)

About the ability to restrict entries, blogger gives three standard options ... allow all postings, allow no postings and allow postings from only those registered (who have agreed to the Blogger terms of service and have a "blogger display name"). As I suggested, if someone wanted to have a foul mouth (as it were) but we all knew the name it would make it easer to label as "well, that's just Fred" or some such. Not really an ironclad way of avoiding problems, but certainly a good way of allowing us to have our communication with "Fred" facilitated ... or perhaps a way of allowing us to ignore "Fred".

Ron said...

An Anon said:

"(Ron, you remember the Sorrel Marks quote you manipulated from a water board hearing?)"

No... but I'm curious. What was the quote, do you remember? I've always liked Sorrel. She's a great source (or, I guess it would be more accurate to say, "Was a great source." She doesn't like me much these days. She would talk to me all the time when my stories were breaking her bosses' way, and the moment they stopped breaking her bosses' way, she stopped talking to me. That has always bugged me.)

The only thing I remember her saying at the Water Board meetings last year is when an attorney from the district (I don't remember his name) asked her if the CSD had submitted a Project Report to the Board in 1999-2000. And she reluctantly said, "Yes." (It was the "Pandoraland" project, and it included partial sewering on the Prohibition Zone... what a mess.)

The attorney then asked her if her staff was critical of that report. And, again, she had to say, "Yes." (That was the project they knew was never going to work. But they still allowed Pandora to chase it for two years... a very curious decision, to say the least.)

That was great exchange.

Another Anon said:

"Ron/Ann's silence on this CSD's culpability in this mess is unconsionable."

I just don't see it. What have they done wrong?

I wrote about that here (second comment).

Fines? $6 mill less than what Save the Dream said they would be, which has really got to bum the "Dreamers" out -- since they aggressively lobbied for much bigger fines on their neighbors. Oh well, guess you can't win them all.

Loss of SRF? They don't call it "revolving" for nothing. Have you contacted the SWRCB to support the Board's new application for an SRF loan? That would help get it back, of course, then you would no longer have your, "They lost the SRF loan" argument. Sounds like you have a decison to make -- support the application for a new SRF loan, or retain your, "They lost the SRF loan" argument.

Bankruptcy? That was set into motion on a faithful Tuesday in November, 1998. Blaming the current board for the financial mess is like blaming the Ford administration for the war in Viet Nam. If you remember, two previous attempts to form a CSD in Los Osos had failed prior to "better, cheaper, faster." Bottom line? LO should have never formed a CSD to begin with... it doesn't make any financial sense. The tax base is just too thin.

Stopped the Tri-Dub project? That's what they were elected to do. Sticking to campaign promises is a good thing. They would have been wide open to massive criticism, including from me, if they didn't stop the project following their campaign. But, as it were, they said, "If we get elected, we'll stop the project." They got elected and they stopped the project. I don't know how much you know about journalism, but, trust me, hammering away at politicians for sticking to their campaign promises makes for a very boring non-story.

Now, if they started making up "community values" in an attempt to unnecessarily lock in Ripley's plan, well then I'd be all over that. Oh, that'd be sweet.

Another Anon said:

"Ron, on the other hand is a reclusive hack that has some writing talent..."

'ppreciate it.

Anonymous said...

Ron:
You are hysterical. I swear you should be in the White House, another Tony Snow or whatever. You actually believe what you write, I'm convinced. You honestly believe the actions of this CSD have had NOTHING to do with their current situation. You are amazing, simply amazing. And I'm sure you 'ppreciate it.

Shark Inlet said...

So Ron is saying is that he doesn't see any problem with what the board has done since the recall election ...

What is funny is that I guess he believes that $40M in debt, bankruptcy and the project being taken from the LOCSD and given to the County and the likely project cost increases and time delay (read "additional pollution and saltwater intrusion in our aquifers") is a good thing by comparison to the TriW plan.

I guess that Ron just plain hates parks so much that he would rather we pay extra in many ways just so that he can avoid having another one.

Anonymous said...

Ron said:
Loss of SRF? They don't call it "revolving" for nothing. Have you contacted the SWRCB to support the Board's new application for an SRF loan? That would help get it back, of course, then you would no longer have your, "They lost the SRF loan" argument. Sounds like you have a decison to make -- support the application for a new SRF loan, or retain your, "They lost the SRF loan" argument.

Ron, I must be dense here. The CSD PROMISED voters they would not lose the SRF loan. They PROMISED voters they would not get fined. They got elected on these promises. And you are corrent, keeping campaign promises is a good thing. But in this case, they weren't kept. The proof is in the pudding. So could you please again explain how this current CSD had nothing to do with losing the SRF loan? (which they adamently promised voters they would not). I just don't get your reasoning.

Shark Inlet said...

Ron somehow believes that the word "revolving" means that they'll get another loan with no problem.

However the word revolving in this context means that as the money comes back to the SWRCB (as other communities pay back their loans) they'll loan it out again. I just wonder whether the SWRCB would be willing to commit an even larger fraction of their limited resources (which don't even necessarily exist at the present) to Los Osos. In short, it is pretty likely that even if the County can get a SRF (certainly the LOCSD would have no chance due to their default and lawsuit), it won't be for the full amount needed for construction.

I.e. Ron is full of fluff ... a good writer but sorely lacking on some details.

Shark Inlet said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I guess I understand what he thinks Shark, but the reality is, if I promise to do something and fail to do it, I guess somebody can always say "Oh, well, you can always do it again." Which is true. But it doesn't change the fact I PROMISED TO DO SOMETHING AND DIDN'T DO IT. It just irks me Ron and Ann can constantly harp on the community value thing but not recognize a basic, but extremely important issue in the history of the sewer debacle: This CSD lied to get elected, which has now caused a plethora of costly and embarrassing results. Did other things contribute to where we are? Of course! But just as importanly as all those things is THE ACTIONS OF THIS CSD. Simple. Too bad Ann and Ron aren't adult enough to admit it.
Anyway, it all matters not. Mike Green and Spectator are right. The sewer wars are winding down. The LOCSD is impotent in this matter hitherto. And that is a very good thing.

Shark Inlet said...

Okay ... but I am wondering whether one can fairly say that the current board lied to get elected without saying that the Solutions Group lied to get elected and to get a CSD formed. I would rather think that both groups were pretty naive. Unfortunately, while the first group learned from their mistakes the second group didn't have the time or flexibility to make mistakes without causing very serious problems for all of us.

Anonymous said...

Shark - Considering that I think I know what "side" you are on, I congratulate you on your observation that both groups could be accused of lying to the community. But I must ask you to explain how the Solutions Group "learned" from their mistakes. Pushing forward a project that was so despised by about 50% of the community, a community that was so frustrated that it had a recall election that replaced the majority of the board, a coomunity that voted in a CSD to deliver (they promised!) a low-cost ponding system...this is learning? Please explain. Seems to me like the first group reaped as much havoc on our community as the second group.

Anonymous said...

anon said... " This CSD lied to get elected, which has now caused a plethora of costly and embarrassing results."

I'm sorry, which CSD are you referring to again??

Anonymous said...

Snarky said..."...while the first group learned from their mistakes the second group didn't have the time or flexibility to make mistakes without causing very serious problems for all of us."

You can't be serious...

I wish the first group didnt have the 7 years they did to "learn" from their mistakes. It sure cost us... BIG TIME!!!

In that time they ran the sewer bill up from their initial "promise" (read "lie") of $35 million to areound $200 million.

How can you say the original CSD didn't "make mistakes without causing very serious problems for all of us." I can't believe you are even trying to pass that off here.

Shark Inlet said...

Um ... considering that a low cost solution, ponding and STEP were pretty much nixed by the RWQCB it is learning to move forward with solutions that are acceptable to the RWQCB, something the current board didn't choose to do.

You do have a point that low cost and ponding were promised and not delivered. The question I have is why just over half of the voters were angry enough to recall the former board. I suspect it is because they were promised something cheaper, something that could not be delivered.

Shark Inlet said...

Just for clarity, I do believe the Solutions Group and original CSD made some mistakes that have cost us. They just pale in comparison to the mistakes in the last year.

Anonymous said...

I remember very distinctly that the pre-recall campaign covered the SRF loan issue differently than is being portrayed here.

You would like everyone to believe that the issue was as simple as "we promise not to lose the SRF loan"... but we all know the issue is way more complicated than that.

For those that had more then a 2 second attention span... and for those that chose to ignore the details for political purposes... here is a history lesson:

The original CSD "lost" the SRF loan once before and had to reapply... and was approved a second time.

The important thing to remember is that just because "they" lost the original loan doesnt meant that they didnt get to finance their project with the SRF program.

The recall campaign made it clear that they intended to use SRF funds to finance their project... whether it be with the current loan at the time, or a new loan that they would reapply for. The ultimate goal was to use SRF funds.

If you want to characterize that as "we promise not to lose the SRF loan" then you are oversipmlifying to the point of losing the details.

The new CSD has reapplied for the SRF loan and they have not yet been denied...

So as I see, that isnt a promise not kept; it is a promise not yet realized.

The day the sewer gets funded through the SRF program... no matter what agency is in charge... will be the day that promise is delivered.

Anonymous said...

Anon said... "they ran the sewer bill up from their initial "promise" (read "lie") of $35 million to areound $200 million."

Snarky said... "I do believe the Solutions Group and original CSD made some mistakes that have cost us. They just pale in comparison to the mistakes in the last year."

Did you say "pale in comparison"??

$165 million mistake...

"pale in comparison"???

WOW!!!

Anonymous said...

Right on Anons! Yeah, the recall supporters are holding their own here!

Anonymous said...

The day the sewer gets funded through the SRF program... no matter what agency is in charge... will be the day that promise is delivered.

Well put Annon 5:33. But I'm sitting here with a stack of recall literature put out by Lisa Schicker et. al. and trying to find a way to post it here. Are you really saying that the pro-recall folks did not say we would not lose the SRF loan? Or that we would not get fined? Or that the "Dreamers" were just saying all this as scare tactics?

Shark Inlet said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Shark Inlet said...

The original SRF request that was approved then lost was re-approved as a matter of course because the project was in accordance with RWQCB requirments. For the Ripley project to get approval would require similar RWQCB sign-off. As I understand, the Ripley project would need to be considerably changed (read "much more expensive") to meet RWQCB standards.

If the County can get a SRF for the full amount for whatever project they develop would be great ... but I wouldn't be surprised if they only cover a portion of the total bill.


On the $200M project, where do you get that amount?

In any case, a large portion of why the project was so darn expensive is the actions of Julie and Al. Had the project not been delayed by about two years because of these two (and their friends) the total bill would likely have been just about $100M.


If you're going to hold the Solutions Group to their $35M promise (and that seems fair) you need to hold the recall candidates to their promise of $100/month. In both cases the actions of others (the RWQCB, Al, Julie, TW, etc.) raised the price tag in a way that the board cannot be completely blamed for.


But, if you're into blame, take a page from Richard's script. He opposed the Solutions Group plan and their desire to form the CSD in the first place (as did Joe Sparks, by the way) because he believed the Solutions Group didn't have a full appreciation of how sticky the RWQCB would be. Richard was right and the Solutions Group was wrong. Even so, Richard didn't focus on blaming them but instead chose to focus on what was the best thing to do next. While you may not agree with him that TriW was a good plan, it is very fair to say that it is far cheaper than the Ripley plan and waaaaaaaay cheaper than the Ripley plan once the RWQCB requires considerable changes before we can get another SRF.

Anonymous said...

Sharkinlet,

Despite being warned that project costs would go up if the Tri-W project was stopped, I find it amazing that those that stopped the project say that they were justified doing so because they believce that they were "lied to" about costs by past CSD boards, the State, the Contractors (pick your devil)....so let's stop the project....and let's build an even more expensive project cuz were mad about the past. Talk about cutting one's nose off despite their face.

Well, let them build the more expensive project then. It appears that's what they want. It appears they do not care that the out of town project costs will be $300-$400 / month. They must be very rich to entertain the luxury of rejecting a viable project to pursue a grossly more expenvie project that will also result in CDO's and fines against property owners for years. They obviously feel justified that venting their indigation is worth the cost, even though many of them will have to move once a project is built. So be it.

Sharkinlet, it appears to me that you are a rational man (as well as Mr Legrow), who is trying to rightly explain this situation to a group that is just plain angry. A group that just does not want to be rational. My hats off to you. I know that your rational thoughts have much more validity than hogwash spouted by this blog's numerous anons, Ron and Ann.

Mike Green said...

Sharkey, check this one out,

Anon, "Ron and Ann" said
"Sharkinlet, it appears to me that you are a rational man"
snicker

splutter. Anyway you just might be a female.

Anonymous said...

Richard Le Gross said, on the "letter to chariman young board", in response to very uncomfortable facts;
"You need immediate medical help.The 24 hour telephone number for County Mental Health is 1-800-838-1381. Please call them.

Richard LeGros"


Sorry Dick, this isn't a CSD meeting and you're not incharge. When people expose you for all the lies you have told and all the damage that you have done to our Community, you can't ask the sheriff to make them go away and you can't file a restraining order against them when they expose all your lies and corruption......

Like I said, Richard Le Gross can't dispute the facts.
When the truth stares him in the face, all Dick can say is "you're crazy". Weak Dick.
Another confirmation that everything I said(12:28 AM, August 28, 2006) IS true. Thanks for the confirmation, Dick.

p.s. How interesting that you have the number to County Mental Health so handy. I bet you carry it around in your wallet just in case..........Right?
Probably for those times in plublic places and forums when you feel the need to scream out into a microphone, no less at public meetings, and let everyone at the meeting and watching at home on T.V. (including women and children) know that you have FUCKING BALLS!!!!!.
And you say I need medical help?
Well, I guess, I am just glad you have that number.
Next time you're at the grocery store, or in the park, or sitting in church and you feel the need to scream out "I HAVE FUCKING BALLS!!!". Just make sure you call that number to County Mental Health that you carry around in your wallet. One last question Richard, I mean DICK. Ever wonder why YOU were the biggest winner, I mean LOSER, in last years recall election. If you're not sure, just call those people at County Mental Health. I'm sure they can explain it to you. Regarding you cost analysis for tri-w......did you crunch those numbers when you were recovering in the nut house?

have a nice day:)

Anonymous said...

Ah once again an intelligent dialogue ruined by the poster child for the dangers of inbreeding. Good night y'all

Anonymous said...

Nice comeback.
Is that all you've got?
Like Dick Le Gross, you can't dispute the facts so all you can do is take cheap shots?

Well, im sure your mother has had sex with everyone in town including you. Sorry, unlike your momma, that's not the way I roll.

Shark Inlet said...

To our anonymous friend...

I am not sure that you want to be so snotty toward Richard when your only comeback to him on the TriW versus Riply cost analyses is an insult.

If you're going to try to lock horns with Richard you shouldn't get all fussy about his decorum when your own manners are even worse. Double standards show sloppy thinking.

Note: I don't actually care too much if you're going to use foul language, but please realize that some people (I am one of those) tend to ignore the postings of those who are "overly flowery" in the way they write.

Anonymous said...

To any and all who have displayed such foul language as to make a longshoreman blush:

Anyone who has to resort to school ground insults shows just how juvenile they are.

If you cannot disagree with another person and express your words in terms other than vile epithets, then perhaps you need to purchase a dictionary, so you can learn all the wonderful nuances of the English language.

Your gutter talk is making any thinking person skip over your blog and onto one that displays a little forethought, not just a grade school display of everything nasty you have ever heard.

I for one, would not give your comment a second glance, the first minute I saw your gutter utterances.

Anonymous said...

Ron says (1:49 PM, January 08, 2006):

'It appears that moving the site out of town may indeed be cheaper.'
-- State Water Board Chief of Financial Assistance, Barbara Evoy, October 24, 2005."

Another poster quotes the entire sentence:

>>> Barabara Evoy 10/24/05 5:52 PM
"They ran through different scenarios and penciled them out. Tomorrow they will add detail. It appears that moving the site out of town may indeed be cheaper, but that is without the addition of RB fines, and many of the external costs associated with a move - and without a discussion of what alternative financing may cost."

Ron says (11:12 AM, August 29,2006):

"An Anon said:

(Ron, you remember the Sorrel Marks quote you manipulated from a water board hearing?)"

No... but I'm curious. What was the quote, do you remember?"

My bad! It was Barbara Envoy's comment, not Sorrel Marks that you distorted. I apologize profusely!

Anonymous said...

you guys are really, really cracking me up and you illustrate the hypocrisy of all the liars at Taxpayers Waste.......

shark says;"If you're going to try to lock horns with Richard you shouldn't get all fussy about his decorum when your own manners are even worse. Double standards show sloppy thinking."


Well Shark.......
First, there is a difference between using "colorful" language in a blog and dropping the "F" bomb as an elected Representative of your Community at a public meeting in a public forum that is telecast into family homes where it could be heard within the earshot of children..........
I would say........a very, very BIG difference.

Second, I've already locked horns with Richard LeGros. I locked horns with him last fall and we tossed his foul mouth ASS(I'm sorry, that just slipped out) we tossed his hind parts out of the corral.
Are you guys sure it's not the facts of my post that expose all your bullshit lies and spin and the history of all the mass distruction that has been caused in our Community by the Solutions Group aka Taxpayers Waste?

to anon8:54......
I assume your post refers to your Taxpayers Waste buddy anon7:35...
But, since you'd rather talk about vile epithets and gutter talk, your buddy Richard is the potty mouth King of Los Osos. Like I said, it's no secret why Dick LeGross was the biggest LOSER in the recall election. His broadcast declaration to the whole Community that he has, in Richards words(not mine).....FUCKING BALLS this pretty much locked up the crown title for him has BIGGEST LOSER IN LOS OSOS. I agree with you Shark and Anon 8:54.....why would anybody listen to anything this idiot has to say?

I was honestly very glad to hear Richard say "I HAVE FUCKING BALLS"(Richards words, not mine). Based on his mean spirited nastiness and anger that he always displayed at the meetings, I always pegged him to be a neuter.

But, since you're obviously Taxpayers Waste anon8:54, I'm sure you have Richard's email address. Could you give it to me? I'd love to forward him your post.
I'm sure he could use the advise.

Have a nice day:)

Shark Inlet said...

You are right about the use of the "'F' bomb". On the other hand, the tone of at least one poster here so far (you, I believe, I have little patience trying to figure out which anonymous is which) surpasses a mild "'F' bomb" it would be sort of funny to have the foul language user here complain about Richard's one slip in public. Frankly, this is a public forum in the same fashion. There is no restriction that would prevent children from reading your comments (something that could easily happen in a friend of mine's home ... he reads this blog and he's been known to leave the comment section open in the past ... before he noticed your postings).

In any case, the issue here isn't who has the foulest mouth or who has the most flowerly language. The question is what is best for our community.

To that end I believe that you insulted Richard when addressing his cost estimates for each of the possible WWTF sites rather than addressing any problems with his cost estimates. If you would like to help our community you could get with the program and point out why Richard's conclusions about whether Ripley or TriW are accurate or not. You could point toward the best choice for our CSD board or you could explain why dissolution is good or bad for us at this point in time. You could discuss why AB2701 is good or bad. You could actually address the issues we face next rather than simply vent.

Shark Inlet said...

Also, I believe a bit of clarification is in order. It was suggested that I have some association with Taxpayers Watch.

This would not be true in any way.

While I tend to think they make more sense than the current board or Keith or Gail, I am also mistrustful of anyone who jumps too quickly to "we have to dissolve the CSD". TW did a good thing when the challenged Measure B in the courts, but I am not yet convinced that dissolution is best.

Anonymous said...

You've got to be kidding me, right Shark?

Shark says:"You are right about the use of the "'F' bomb". On the other hand, the tone of at least one poster here so far (you, I believe, I have little patience trying to figure out which anonymous is which) surpasses a mild "'F' bomb" it would be sort of funny to have the foul language user here complain about Richard's one slip in public. Frankly, this is a public forum in the same fashion."

Did you really think I'd let this one go? Do you really think the people of Los Osos are this stupid?
Are you actually compairing a public blog where anybody can say anything to a Municipal Government Meeting? Are you actually saying that there is no difference between someone who posts in a blog using foul language and an Elected Representative of the Community using foul language at a Municipal Government Meeting? Are you on the crack pipe again?
I'll say it again incase you missed it the first time......
"there is a difference between using "colorful" language in a blog and dropping the "F" bomb as an elected Representative of your Community at a Municipal Government Meeting. A very, very BIG difference.


Shark goes onto say: "There is no restriction that would prevent children from reading your comments (something that could easily happen in a friend of mine's home ... he reads this blog and he's been known to leave the comment section open in the past ... before he noticed your postings)."

You and your Taxpayers Waste buddies have really lost it. Let me get this straight.......let me relax and take a deep breath......
If your Taxpayers Waste "friend" visits a public blog that might have some foul language and your "friend" leaves it on the screen for his kids to see this is somehow my fault? What you're saying is that your friend's negligence as a parent is my fault? This would be like dad downloading a bunch of porno then walking away from his computer for his kids to see and then blaming it on the porno website cause his kids saw it. This is exactly like sewertoons saying "if someone tells you a lie it's your fault for believing the lie. I'm sorry Shark. If your friend wants to leave a bunch of foul language on his computer screen for his kids to see, it's his fault not mine. If you want to give me his name and number, I'd be glad to report him to social services.
I guess it has to do with expectations. If I'm surfing the net where you can find all kinds of sick and twisted and foul stuff and I'm just talking about the regular news sites and blogs. (look at the news stories just from the last few weeks)...if I'm surfing the net even if it's just the everyday news sites, I'm not going to do it with a kid on my lap or even in the same room . If I'm at a site that has adult content, pg-13 or "R" or "X" rated and there are kids around. It's MY responsibility to close the site before I get up from the computer. This is something that "I" have control over.
But, If I am a parent at home watching a Municipal Government Meeting(something that I have no control over) I, as a parent, should NOT have to worry about my kids hearing one of my elected Representative say;"I HAVE FUCKING BALLS"

Finally Sharks Sparks says" It was suggested that I have some association with Taxpayers Watch.
This would not be true in any way."

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT. Ok. We believe you. Wink, wink.

Haven't we gone over this? I think we have.........

oh yes......remember this.......
this is the problem shark. i've been following this blog for about a year. i know and ann knows and everybody that knows, knows.............you out-of-context miss quote people and flat out make stuff up ad nauseum, ad infinitum. hell, i remember when you use to start off your posts by saying you were unbiased, impartial, and undecided and then would write three paragraphs about how tri-w was the only answer and how the new CSD sucked. i mean, don't get me wrong shark, you seem like a pretty smart guy but when you spin out of control like this it kills your creditability. i guess you must have dropped out of the karl rove "get anybody to believe anything(better, cheaper, faster) let me bend you over so i can fuck you up the ass" school of spin. anybody that knows what's going on really does know how full of shit you are. sorry. i guess your hope is that people who don't totally know what is going on will drop in and believe what you write is true. i guess i can't knock you for trying as long as you can sleep with the full knowledge that you're a mutha fucking liar. oops sorry, that just slipped out. what i meant to say was.....i guess i can't knock you for trying as long as you can sleep with the full knowledge that you're a mammy ramming, mongrel, sphincter....

have a nice day:)

p.s. it's your fault if your kids see this. not mine. neener, neener, neener

Churadogs said...

Inlet sez:"You are right that Richard's explanation for why they voted to sue to stop Measure B sounds pretty weak. However, when you recall that Measure B was ruled illegal in every way and that it has caused no end of trouble for our community, I have to say that that whatever the LOCSD board's reasons were for suing to block Measure B, the decision was the right one. Are you seriously asking us to believe that the board shouldn't have opposed Measure B? Are you seriously asking us to believe that the LOCSD should have taken no action to prevent a travesty?"

Travesty or not, Measure B ended up on the ballot, as I knew it would, given the history of initiatives getting on the ballot in this State, no matter how cockamamie, and so ran its course anyway. My point was that suing to STOP it from getting on the ballot was the very, very costly mistake that helped trigger the rockfall that triggered other rockfalls, etc, that finally ended in bankruptcy down the hill. In short, suing to stop Measure B didn't work AND cost the community dearly -- so far as I can see it was a complete lose/lose decision.Worse, it sent an awful message to the community that helped the recall, not hindered it. So, that's three to zero. Ummmm, not good.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ann,

The measure ITSELF and its' IMPLIMENTATION has caused the danmage to Los Osos, not fighting it.

Again, you blog only speculation and opinion about the affects of opposing Measure B. No facts, just spin.

Regards, Richard LeGros

Shark Inlet said...

Our foul mouthed anonymous friend wrote that it is okay to swear here but not at a LOCSD meeting. (Hmmmm ... is the swearing ban only on boardmembers or does it apply to members of the audience as well, I wonder what he has in mind.) His arguement is that kids could see the show on TV or have been in the audience and their parents should have the expectation that the meeting has a PG rating at worst but on the internet, on the other hand, parents should expect their kids would see foul language in a sewer discussion website.

Come on ... it would seem that your reaction is over the top. Both situations would tend to only have sewer wonks involved. Kids would be unlikely in both situations. I was just trying to take your (silly) argument that Richard's words were horribly wrong but your regular foul language was okay and point out the logical problem.

However what I see as an even greater problem is your lack of willingness to discuss any issues.

Again I would suggest you actually discuss the issues. That would be helpful. Other discussions, while perhaps interesting for a while, are mostly a waste of time.

Oh yeah ... you may have missed this, but I am not a TW person. I was pretty open minded toward the whole "move the sewer" group back when this whole thing started up bigtime ... mostly because a good friend of mine was very much in their camp and he is pretty smart ... but I found that while the previous board had made some mistakes, the "solutions" proposed by CCLO and LOTTF and Julie and Al would seem to make the situation even worse.

It sounds like you, along with Ron, believe that the TriW site is so bad for a WWTF that it is worth paying any price to fix it. That is essentially where Ron and I disagree. I don't think it is as bad as he does and even if it wasn't the best choice in 2001, the costs associated with moving the WWTF make the TriW site a clear winner.

Let me ask you a (only somewhat hypothetical) question, just so that we have a good sense of where you stand. Would you rather pay $200/month for sewer services but the WWTF is at TriW or would you rather pay $300/month for sewer services but the WWTF is "out of town"? Phrased another way, how much more would you be willing to pay each and every month to have the plant out of town?

Just curious...

Sewertoons said...

So Ann, how do you feel about continuing to sue to uphold Measure B. Was (and IS, as it has been appealed once again) that a wise choice?

Anonymous said...

Actually, i'm enjoying the hell out of the "anonymous" post garnering all the attention. I think whoever it is, is just verbalizing what many of us feel. I pretty much agree 100% with what is said. In todays world, foul language is the norm being fed to us in every walk of our life. Tv, movies, radio ads. Even business's use play on words tactics like an ad I heard recently on radio about an energy drink called "Wake The F Up". Now what do you suppose they were implying?
Some of the response's to those posts crack me up. Do you really think people log on to this site to become more informed? When Ann posts other than her opinion stuff is where I get my information. All the comments are nothing more than everyones opinion of what it means.
For all of you that say you pass over this blogger because of the foul language, you sure seem to be commenting on it alot.

Anonymous said...

I keep having recurring dreams of goons with baseball bats.

Since people can't settle their views with reason, violence may be the only answer. If it is ok for unions, maybe property owners can march. There is a lot of money at stake here.

Is there some sort of a religious war going on in Los Osos? Who is the first to die for it?

Anonymous said...

OH shit! Beat the assholes senseless? Maybe for public safety disolution is the ONLY solution!

Mike Green said...

Wow! Ann is 102 comments a record?

Churadogs said...

Mike sez"Wow! Ann is 102 comments a record?"

Jeeze, I think so. Pretty amazing. See what an anonymous potty mouth can accomplish? Yikes.

Anonymous said...

Shark said: "Phrased another way, how much more would you be willing to pay each and every month to have the plant out of town?

Just curious..."

To answer your question Shark, I would be willing to and will pay about half as much for an out-of-town project as I would for Tri-W.

Unless, of course, you're willing to believe Dick's(R. LeGross) numbers that he crunched while he was in the nut house. I'm not willing to base my decision on the numbers of a disgruntled, corrupt, tossed-out-on-his-ass, X-government official. Sorry. I'll go with the Ripley system that uses about half as much energy and doesn't require sludge trucks hauling your(our) shit out of town everyday......
by the way, if you haven't heard, the plant in Santa Maria has stated to members of the public that it can not handle and will not accept our sludge. So, I guess these trucks will be on a road to nowhere. But, I'm sure this will all come out before the County decides on the Ripley plan.

Have a nice day:)

Shark Inlet said...

So ... you are willing to pay about $100-$125 for an out-of-town plant.

So, if that $125/month cannot be achieved but out-of-town costs closer to $300/month (and you've given us no reason to doubt $300/month or more) what are you going to do?

A reasoned look at the Ripley numbers and financing costs shows that it will be more than TriW, even if energy costs suffer horrible inflation. Show us where Richard's cost analyses are in error. Show us that the RWQCB will sign off on no denitrification. Show us that the RWQCB will sign off on a plan which assumes that we'll cut our water use by more than 50%. Show us how Ripley's numbers account for inflation during the time until contstruction starts (hint: they don't). Once you show us these things (assumptions behind the Ripley claim of $150/month) we can talk more because reasonable people agree that out-of-town will cost more.

Anonymous said...

After reading all the "interesting" blogs here, I wonder how many of you who consistantly call the present board "liars", took to note the post by Annon 5:33pm 8/29?...or is it one of those opinions you choose to ignore since it explains the motives of the current BOD kinda clear, like?

Ron said...

To Anon 10:00 PM, 8/29:

Good pull! Nice job finding that, and, yes, I do remember that.

And my point there was: here's Evoy, saying an out of town site is cheaper. That's important, because we were always officially told that Tri-Dub was selected because it was the cheapest.

Well, if that was the case, then why is another official now saying out-of-town sites may indeed be cheaper?

As for this:

"but that is without the addition of RB fines, and many of the external costs associated with a move - and without a discussion of what alternative financing may cost."

Well, first of all, if you're on the side of Taxpayers Watch, you guys might want to stop bringing up the fines. After all, it was Taxpayers Watch that lobbied -- hard -- for those fines.

And, keep in mind, those fines ended up being $6 million. Doesn't that sound a little drop-in-the-buckety to you? Also, according to RWQCB regulations, when they collect fines, those fines can, and should, go right back into the community to help clean the water. Yet I see the, "The got us fined!" argument everywhere.

Do you realize that as I type it is very possible that it is illegal to build a sewer plant at Tri-Dub because the only document that allowed it there -- the Statement of Overriding Considerations -- was recently rescinded. That document overrode the entire environmental review process for the sewer plant location, and it's completely invalid.

However, no one talks about that, including the Trib.

Which one do you think has had more of an impact on your wallet? $6 million in fines, that has yet to be collected, and when it is, it will likely go right back into your community, or fabricating a document to override the EIR, and needlessly lock in a more expensive, according to Evoy, sewer plant location that the community doesn't want?

An Anon said:

"Actually, i'm enjoying the hell out of the "anonymous" post garnering all the attention."

As I said early, buried in all that profanity are some very good takes. Plus I love the "Have a nice day:)" sign-off... funny.

Sewertoons said...

The fines are ongoing at $10,000 per day, BTW, and the contractor's are still in court, so let's add something more into the money mix.

Shark Inlet said...

Yes Ron, many of us do pay attention. Rescinding the Statement of Overriding Considerations and cancelling the contracts were moves made by the current board to make the TriW site less attractive to the County.

This is exactly the same sort of "scorched earth" policy that Ann complained about when the previous board chose to start construction just prior to the recall election. If it was wrong for the previous board to take actions to make moving the sewer less attractive it should be wrong for the current board to do the same thing. However, I've yet to hear a complaint about these recent actions from Ann and other supporters of the current board. It would seem that back a year ago their outrage was founded in the impact of the action on the project location more than on whether the action was right or wrong.

About Evoy's comment, it was like Polhemus' comment. Both essentially said that out-of-town was more expensive ... mostly because of the time delay. I don't think that a solid argument could have been made in 2000 was for sure cheaper than out of town ... but comparable plants would be about the same cost in both places with a nod toward TriW because it would take less pipe.

About the thing that only you and I remember, Ron ... Dan Blesky's statment (last fall) that the state had told him that they would restart the funding and the contractors would be back to work within a week ... have you learned anything else about that matter? (To me it seemed like he was just trying to distract people from the Trib argument that out-of-town was more expensive than TriW.)

Sewertoons ... I would expect that if AB2701 is signed into law, no fines (other than those imposed during the first ACL hearing) would be imposed.

Sewertoons said...

Thanx shark for the hope about the fines. No matter what side you are on, the fines are unwelcome and a horrible burden to add to the bankruptcy.

Mike Green said...

The Fines should be removed! What possible good could the fines do? what way will the fines help speed a project now?
The fines are completly a punishment now.
Who will be compensated for wrongdoing? If as Ron says it all goes back to us whats the point?
what fines are for?, to PUNISH the perpatrators!
WHAT perpitrators?
Can anyone PROVE that someone in the doomed 45 is directly responsible for the sewer situation?
No hell No!
Then why must they be singled out to pay punishment BEFORE anyone else!
The CDO's MUST BE FOUGHT!
The fines must be waived!
(probably happen anyway in he chapter 9 hearings).