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Friday, July 11, 2008

Smile! You’re On Arial Camera (Oooo, nooo, a typo! It's Aerial, Duh, thanks, alert reader)

Didja get your nifty letter and photo of your property, taken from a Look! Look! Up In The Sky! camera, complete with (if known) a yellow dot where your septic is located and a little sticky marker you can peel off and place in your front yard as where you’d like your nice new septic tank, if the County decides to go ahead with a STEP system.

Plus a little Circle One survey that ranges from, Yes I like Step to EEEUUUU We’re All Gonna Die!

The letter notes “Initial cost estimates indicate that a STEP system may be a cost effective option for the community. . . . Specifically, estimators need to know where individual property owners would want their STEP tanks installed if this collection system option is selected. . . . The County’s project analysis has established that the STEP alternative is cost competitive and is potentially viable for Los Osos.”

Very interesting. The County states that, when the EIR is released, it “will be closely followed by a community advisory survey. The advisory survey will ask all community members their opinions on project options for technologies, enhancements, and locations. The advisotry survey will be sent to residents, property owners, and business owners, both inside and outside the Prohibiton Zone.”

But THIS document asks, Do the homeowners in the PZ support a STEP system right off the bat BEFORE they have any cost analysis comparisons to go along with it?

Does that then skew any subsequent survey results? Or skew any further work done on the various projects? For example, suppose a majority of forms are returned saying, Yes, I support STEP. Clearly, since STEP is “cost competitive and is potentially viable for Los Osos,” that system will move to the head of the line. (Why not? Cheaper and with community acceptance? Win-Win.)

BUT, suppose the majority of forms are returned saying, NO I don’t support STEP, will that move a STEP system to the back of the line? And then, when the final reports come out with the price tags for the various systems, will the community look at STEP and say, Woa, wait a minute, it costs how much less?? Wait, let me rethink this. Uh, Yes, think I’ll change my vote for STEP, since I didn’t know the price the first time, and now that you show me the price savings, I’ll vote, Yes I support STEP.

And so forth.

In the meantime, since there were no cost comparisons (STEP vs. gravity vs cluster systems, etc.) along with these photos, sticky notes and forms, homeowners returning the forms and “voting” are doing so blind. Which will make the results both interesting and questionable. But in addition, the forms will give the engineers valuable information as to what percentage of homes do or don’t have enough space for a tank in the front yard. (If memory serves, weren’t the majority of septic tanks in the PZ located in the front yard, which would make replacing tanks and the laterals easy since they’d be so near the street trunk lines.) That in itself will likely influence how the County proceeds.

In short, this survey raises a whole lotta questions about whether it’s giving a fair shot to STEP. After all, I’m sure a whole lot of people will base their ultimate choice on overall cost and with no overall cost guestimates given in this mailing, they lack that information. And if this survey result becomes “real,” will it influence the later surveys and/or even alter the selection process?

Well, stay tuned.

I had no trouble placing my little sticky note and adding written notes on possible other sites or sites that wouldn’t work due to ginormous invasive tree roots from the eucalyptus in the easements by the street and so forth. I also circled Yes! I support STEP and did so for a variety of reasons, among which is: I’m not afraid of my septic tank. My septic tank is my friend since STEP utilizes my septic tank to digest sludge thereby reducing the work needed to be done at the treatment plant ($$$$) and reducing the amount of sludge needed to be taken somewhere (mo’ $$$$); removing liquid septage only uses smaller bore pipes which reduces the cost of laying pipe (no need to dig ginormous holes in the streets ($$$$); if there’s any breakage, the operators are alerted immediately, since the liquid is under pressure, so it can be repaired immediately, versus hidden leaks from gravity pipes that may leak for ages before being discovered and the community is Fined! Fined! Fined! By Roger Briggs ($$$$$), and so forth.

Well, my particular die is cast. I hope yours is too. And now we’ll wait to see what the rest of the plans show and will “vote” accordingly. Chugga Chugga Chugga.

25 comments:

Billy Dunne said...

My die is cast as well, and it will take a show of force to enter my property to replace my septic tank with another.........septic tank. Not goiong to happen. Ever.

Ask the people of Olympia why they are working towards eliminating their STEP systems. You'll get a list like this:

What are some of the problems the City has experienced with STEP systems? Examples include the following:


Frequently installed in areas that could be served by conventional gravity sewer systems.
More costly to operate and maintain than conventional gravity systems. City sewer utility rate payers carry the burden of the additional costs. STEP users do not pay more than users of conventional sewer systems.
Create high number of homeowner calls to the City for service and troubleshooting. Approximately 90 percent of sewer utility service calls are STEP-related.
Can lead to effluent leaks and groundwater contamination.
Prone to failure as a result of power outages.
Can create off-site odor problems that are difficult and expensive to solve.
Not upgraded to gravity systems and unsupportive of efforts to bring regional gravity systems to future adjacent and outlying developments. STEP systems do not support regional infrastructure designs.

And on it goes. I'll take the inconvenience of ripped up streets. I will not tolerate my home being trounced and torn apart, and the very real potential of subsequent disaster of a backed up septic into my house. "Alerted immediately"" "Repaired immediately."

Bwwwaaaa hahahahahahaha.

Absolutely No to STEP.

Ron said...

Ann wrote:

"Very interesting."

I'll say. Great article, Ann.

B.D. wrote:

"Ask the people of Olympia why they are working towards eliminating their STEP systems."

and the county wrote:

"The County’s project analysis has established that the STEP alternative is cost competitive and is potentially viable for Los Osos.”

So, are SLO County officials dumber than Olympia Washington officials, or has Los Osos' infamous electioneering started again? (And this time, it's just to influence a "survey," for the love of Pete. Time to crank up the ol' behavior-based marketing machine... Chugga Chugga Chugga.)

And where's Guppy Inlet? After years and years of posting on this blog, and on mine (over and over and over again), that Tri-W is the cheapest way to go, don't they have a take on the fact that county officials are now saying this:

"Initial cost estimates indicate that a STEP system may be a cost effective option for the community..."

... Chugga Chugga Chugga.

Maria M. Kelly said...

STEP may be a lower cost alternative to install for the construction to whoever is doing the construction - identifying location will help whomever develop an accurate cost analysis for the design/build aspect of the project. Any guesstimate at this point would be a misdirect.

STEP may not be cheaper for each homeowner when broken down by home. There are homeowners who will have to bear the front end cost of a new and separate electrical drop, the restoration of the area where the tank is installed, a road worthy tank and restoration of the area.

This feasibility/acceptance survey does is identify the homes that will need to have road worthy tanks installed under driveways which will also assist the design/build team develop accurate estimate costs.

Naturally I liked this opportunity for the community to participate because it's all helpful as this project progresses.

I amuse myself when I'm amazed at my naivety of thinking that this would be great information for the county and what a positive opportunity for the community. Then I come to this site and see the comments that create suspicion and ask why questions that can't be answered yet aren't answered.

Catch 22 is probably one of my favorite all time novels - you can't see the flies in your eyes because there are flies in your eyes.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Ann says:
"removing liquid septage only uses smaller bore pipes which reduces the cost of laying pipe (no need to dig ginormous holes in the streets"

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!! Meanwhile, laying the street pipes aside, I see my entire front yard as one huge excavation!!! I really don't give a rat's ass about the pipe, it is the tank that will destroy my landscaping. All my nurtured babies ripped out by their roots to put in a new tank to replace the one that gives me headaches with all of the rules that I must follow!!

Yeah, to do "step" is to step into a big fat cowpie. No thanks.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Is it even legal to rip out a pygmy oak?

Mike Green said...

Toons, Are we to assume that your tank is in the backyard and the front yard is heavily landscaped? Pygmy oaks? awesome!

My situation is that my tank is in the back, but with easy back-hoe access for abandoning, now that said, the "Picture" on the survey was WAY inaccurate, either that or I've been trespassing something awful on my front porch for the last 18 years or so.
Oh, and the sticker tore off a bunch of paper, so I had to tape it on (luckily, I'm in the process of moving, so there was packing tape right there)
I imagine most folks will try to comply with the survey without attaching too much sewer jihadist spin.
For me, I supported it with the caveat that it's gotta be WAAAAY cheaper, otherwise conventional is OK.
But hey, maybe the reclamator will deliver us all into blackwater enlightenment!!!
Still bowing and chanting and boinking.

Shark Inlet said...

Ron proves himself to be a lying sack of weasel dung when he writes "And where's Guppy Inlet? After years and years of posting on this blog, and on mine (over and over and over again), that Tri-W is the cheapest way to go".

Presumably the costs of stopping TriW as well as inflation should be included before one can determine whether it was wise to stop TriW or not.

So then ... are you a gonna add in some $40M associated with the cost of stopping TriW and then five years of 8% inflation (another $65M or so) and still claim that the recall saved us money?

Seriously ... if it ends up that the monthly cost is less than $200/month it will show you were right. On the other hand, it if ends up costing more than $220/month (in total, including all costs associated with stopping TriW ... even the increased fire costs because the reserve fund has been raided), it will appear that I was right.

Before the final numbers are in, it is sloppy and foolish to act as if a misrepresented TAC report proves your point.

So ... are you a journalist or a hack or just some guy trying to salvage his reputation after taking the wrong side on an issue of great import?



...



and to answer your question ... I've been in Colorado.

FBLeG said...

Ann,

You should know better:

It's AERIAL not arial!

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Ann, when you said:
"Plus a little Circle One survey that ranges from, Yes I like Step to EEEUUUU We’re All Gonna Die!

You would have been fair if you had put it, "Oh, I am so TOTALLY IN LOVE with step, to EEEUUUU We’re All Gonna Die!"

The proof will come out as to individual costs later. How many homes will need an electrician to hook that thing up? How many homes have an extra circuit in the electrical box? How many homes have things that the owners hope no electrical inspector sees? Mine (built in 1986, but added to by amateurs) came with some pretty strange electrical hook-ups that had to be removed before I felt safe moving in. How many home fires are attributed to faulty wiring? We might clear up THAT problem if we get some electrical inspectors out and about in town!

Churadogs said...

Bill Dunne sez:"My die is cast as well, and it will take a show of force to enter my property to replace my septic tank with another.........septic tank. Not goiong to happen. Ever."

Gosh, I hope the folks who come on to your property from the County to inspect your shut down old septic tank won't get a bullet in the head from Billy.

Maria sez:"STEP may be a lower cost alternative to install for the construction to whoever is doing the construction - identifying location will help whomever develop an accurate cost analysis for the design/build aspect of the project. Any guesstimate at this point would be a misdirect."

Yes, I think the survey is excellent for just those reasons. As Mike Green notes, further down, the survey may have information wrong (or Mike's porch is in the middle of the street?) or something. Quicker that gets figrued out for the community, the better.

"STEP may not be cheaper for each homeowner when broken down by home. There are homeowners who will have to bear the front end cost of a new and separate electrical drop, the restoration of the area where the tank is installed, a road worthy tank and restoration of the area."

That's a point everyone needs to keep in mind. It's clear to me that no matter what system is ultimately selected SOME home owners will pay more than OTHER homeowners, depending, whether grinder pumps, different landscaping, where the laterals are located, etc. There will be NO one-size-fits-all for everyone.

"This feasibility/acceptance survey does is identify the homes that will need to have road worthy tanks installed under driveways which will also assist the design/build team develop accurate estimate costs. "

Wonder if they'll do a similar survey for gravity, since running the laterals could present a big problem for a lot of people and add to the cost?

"Naturally I liked this opportunity for the community to participate because it's all helpful as this project progresses."

Yep, think it's very helpful.

"I amuse myself when I'm amazed at my naivety of thinking that this would be great information for the county and what a positive opportunity for the community. Then I come to this site and see the comments that create suspicion and ask why questions that can't be answered yet aren't answered."

Naw, not our commentors -- we've got people ready to pick up guns to blow county inspectors away, and the usual neener-neering. Business as usual. You expected . . . what?

"Catch 22 is probably one of my favorite all time novels - you can't see the flies in your eyes because there are flies in your eyes."

Sewertoons sez:"Mine (built in 1986, but added to by amateurs) came with some pretty strange electrical hook-ups that had to be removed before I felt safe moving in. How many home fires are attributed to faulty wiring? We might clear up THAT problem if we get some electrical inspectors out and about in town!"

Woa, if STEP is the final system, think how many homes will be "saved" from faulty wiring or illegal wiring and other hidden messes. Likely sewer/plumbing problems caught too. Woa.


11:36 AM, July 11, 2008

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Yes, you are right Ann - "saved" - but the homeowner will pick up the costs. "COSTS" might be why they did it the quick and dirty way to begin with, rather than hiring a licensed electrician, which of course "costs" more than DIY.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

So then Ann, are you saying that with gravity, only plumbing problems will be caught, but with step both electrical and plumbing problems will be caught (and fixed and PAID FOR) by the homeowner?

Mike Green said...

Ann opined:
Woa, if STEP is the final system, think how many homes will be "saved" from faulty wiring or illegal wiring and other hidden messes. Likely sewer/plumbing problems caught too. Woa.
Toons projected:
"which of course "costs" more than DIY."
Crap, so you both are telling me my house needs saving and it's gonna cost me more cause I did a lot of my own wiring?
Well so much for reading building and wiring manuals at the library! Dang.
There is a lot of truth in what Toons says about DIYers, after all I used to be a master car mechanic (I guess I still am)
We always used to say the most expensive fix on a car was to tighten the loose nut behind the steering wheel.
There are exception to the rule of course, all the correct information is out there it just takes a commitment to do the job right.
If I'm back here before the building starts (2 years???) You can be sure I'm going to be looking closely at back-ho rentals and such.
I am of course fearless or maybe foolish, take your pick.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

"...no need to dig ginormous holes in the streets ($$$$)"

Wow, I'm sure relieved to know that the streets will be saved... well, thats not quite a correct statement either now is it?

Won't there still be trenching for the pressurized collection pipes...??? Any idea how wide and deep those trenches along side every street will be..??? Any thought to size of the cross street bore pits...???

..and now that we're all flush with the saving of our streets, could someone provide a realistic size for placing the STEP Septic Tank...how wide, long and deep will the excavation have to be...???

I picture these wonderful excavations slightly off the street on BOTH sides of the street...then I picture what a gravity pipe trench down the middle of the street would look like...

No matter how you look at the problem, the streets are going to be torn up... but with gravity, only the street and minimal trenching to connect the houses to the collection pipe...with STEP, both sides of the street will need to have ginormous holes next to the street...!!!! Over 5000GINORMOUS EXCAVATIONS...!!!!!!

Mike Green said...

OK everybody, I'll pose the famous Shark Inlet question:
If plan A (STEP in this case) costs X
And the county says it's cheaper, (TAC report)
How much more are you willing to pay for gravity?

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Someone needs to make clear the difference in costs of directional boring vs. trenching for step. It can be done either way - boring just costs more, that's all.

The County survey letter says the typical 1500 gallon tank is 6 feet wide by 14 feet long. The hole would be several feet larger than the tank… and it will be placed 8 to 10 feet deep. Now that is one ginormous hole and a ginormous mound of dirt - right in your own front yard - (or it will remove most of your driveway -- and that mountain of dirt and asphalt will go - where? -- if you are on a 25 foot lot).

My question is what is more expensive for the homeowner - you can't tell me the County project will replace my entire front yard's landscape - that cost will come out of my pocket.

Out of fairness to reality - the gravity design is already engineered with plans - I don't think the cost of that was supposed to be factored into the TAC report - to level the playing field, so to speak. Engineered plans have yet been done for step. We'd have to pay for that, right?

Churadogs said...

Here's a question sent from a friend. If you recall, the Ripley report noted that tanks can be placed in median rights of way, placed in the street, under driveways & etc. Why wasn't that option presented? Why tanks only on your property?

As for the large mound of dirt left after digging a hole for the new tank. When I had my leach fild replaced, they dug a ginormous hole, put in all the rocks and piping & etc. then covered it all up again. Took less than a day. Then I put the plants back in and re-fixed the drip lines. Done.It's now all grown back, would never know they had done anything. On this deal, presume you'd dig the huge hole, put the dirt temporarily to the side of the 10/ x 14/ hole, put the tank in, hook it up, put the dirt back. Stick the petunias back on. Done in a day?

As for Mike's Question, how much more are you willing to pay for whichever system is presented. Ah, yes. Now, there we are. That's the $25,000 questions for each of us, isn't it?

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Tanks that you can drive on cost more than the other kind. I'm sure the County is trying to find the least expensive use of tanks overall. That would make one think that they are doing what they can to make the step option viable.

I might also add, that one usually does not allow larger plantings such as trees on top of leach lines. As most of us have not had tank replacements, the landscaping around the tank area has become a bit more involved than petunias.

Shark Inlet said...

Good question Mike!

I don't rightly care about step versus gravity ... but if the long-run costs of STEP (including the power to run the STEP system and the cost of replacing septic tanks instead of decomissionining them) are lower than gravity it would suggest that STEP is the way to go.

On the other hand ... I've gotta ask ... are we going to have to pay more per month because of the recall?

As to Ripley's suggestion that tanks can be put underneath driveways ... don't you think this will increase the cost of maintenance and repair ... at least a bit?

Unknown said...

It still sounds like someone is waaayyy underestimating the size of the excavation and I would dare say each STEP installation will disrupt the house for 3 to 5 days...this is NOT a simple leachfield re-do...this is a MAJOR excavation of some 10 to 20 ft by 10 ft deep... there will be County Building Inspections and if the installation is to be anything like the reclamator fiasco, there will be OSHA inspections... Do you have homeowners insurance to protect you from any damage, injury or death that could happen on your property...???

Churadogs said...

Mike sez:"Do you have homeowners insurance to protect you from any damage, injury or death that could happen on your property...???"

Shouldn't a prudent person have homeowners insurance on one's home, as a matter of course? I do and I hope the rest of you do. Plus the project, whichever it turns out to be, will also carry insurance up the wazoo.

Sewertoons sez:" I might also add, that one usually does not allow larger plantings such as trees on top of leach lines. As most of us have not had tank replacements, the landscaping around the tank area has become a bit more involved than petunias."

Isn't it also not real smart to have trees on top of sewer lines of any sort? Even street trees, which have caused no end of costly trouble for sewer mains on a certain street in Morro Bay I know of.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

I'd like to see a comparison of tree root problems between old clay sewer pipes and the type of pipes used now.

Unknown said...

Ann, Let's look at the Ripley approach of putting the tanks in the street or "median right of way"... As I recall, there is some insignificant electrical requirement to run some minor air pump or instrumentation, but be it as it may, just WHO would be responsible for 1) the installation and 2) the monthly electical bill...???

Actually, if these tanks are put in the middle of the street, as Rip suggested, wouldn't there be ginormous holes in the street...???

I just ask as there might be some slight objection to tearing up our immaculate streets...

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Excellent point Mike!! I mean if a big selling point with step is to not tear up the streets… :-(

Also, tanks that are driving-rated cost a whole lot more!

Hey - the UPSIDE is that the stink of pump-out is out on the street, not next to your front window!!