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Wednesday, April 07, 2010

Finally, THE Question. Still waiting for the Answer

In a nutshell, Ron Crawford at www.sewerwatch.blogspot.com has asked THE question about the Hideous Sewer project that still remains unanswered. Well, actually ONE of the questions.

The second would be, "Did the citizens of Los Osos know they were voting for a PARK with a more expensive sewer attached and located downtown, because the primary driving force was a PARK? Or did they think (and believe their pre-recall CSD) that this was a sewer project that, by mere coincidence, or mere happy happenstance, just happened to have a park attached, but was a sewer project, first and foremost, that could ONLY be located in the center of town, even if there were no park elements attached, just a plain old sewer plant?

And did they believe their pre-recall CSD when it told them that there were NO other options, that other options (i.e. out of town) would be waaaaayyy more expensive, that the sewer plant HAD to be centrally located because, well, it just had to be centrally located. In short, just what was really driving the location and, as Ron asks, Why on earth did the CCC vote for it?

I'm with Ron in thinking the community really deserves an honest answer to that question (from -- please -- people with no self-serving dogs in this fight, if there even is such a thing?), but knowing the history of this whole project -- one series of linked misleading missteps after another -- I won't hold my breath.

50 comments:

redrhino said...

Ann,

By the time the design was finalized and by the time Lisa got on the board, TriW was the least expensive option remaining ... because ... as we've seen time and time again, every time someone has a "cheaper" option which is "better" in one way or another, it ends up costing more due to the delay. Also, few of the "improvements" have actually survived the permitting process.

In short, I find your question (well, Ron's question) self-serving and deceptive in it's phrasing.

Another, more appropriate question is this ... "Did the citizens of Los Osos really know they were voting for additional pollution and higher costs when they voted for the recall?" If not, weren't we ripped off by those we elected to get a job done?

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron said...

Thanks for the link, Ann.

Something got in my head every since I wrote my recent piece: How close Three Blocks was published after the Coastal Commission gave the Tri-W embarrassment final approval.

They approved that mess (for reasons heretofore unknown) on August 11, 2004, and Three Blocks was published on September 23, 2004... just a little over one month later, and that time frame just never really dawned on me, until my latest post. After I typed those dates in in, I just looked at it, and it just struck me... I was SO right, SO quick.

And, as I've written a gazillion times over the years, the nanosecond that Three Blocks hit the streets, the plug should have been immediately pulled on the Tri-W mess, because my story showed, clearly, that it was a park project disguised as a sewer project, and, everything everyone was told about that mess -- including the California Coastal Commission, themselves -- was a complete lie.

Ann wrote:

"Why on earth did the CCC vote for it? "

Talk about a GINORMOUS mistake!

Ann wrote:

"I'm with Ron in thinking the community really deserves an honest answer to that question..."

And, as I also wrote, as do ALL Californians, but, of course, for my own selfish reasons, my book is going to require an answer -- a 2010 answer -- to that question.

Sewertoons said...

I am on the LOCAC Parks and Rec committee, as is Linde and Alon and others. The conversation has gone to - why are there so few parks in Los Osos? We want more parks! What can we do about it? We want a park at Tri-W. How are we going to get a park -- anywhere? The answer is -- we can't do it alone. We do not have the money. And as we have seen, the County isn't exactly chafing at the bit to get us a park any time soon. In other words, WANTING a park, doesn't get you a park. And ron's ASSERTION that we don't want parks is just plain WRONG.

It was Julie and company (in one of her acronym phases) that put the park element back into Tri-W after the CSD board took it out. Maybe if he is still reading over here, Richard can fill us in on that. And ron can comment on that!

So to tie this together, getting a park for Los Osos is something we:
1. WANT
2. Cannot do ourselves (unless a bundle of money suddenly drops out of the sky - ha-ha)
3. COULD HAVE DONE by tying it to the wastewater project

ron does not live here. He does not attend any committees or groups that meet on this topic, so where does he get off telling the world that Los Osos doesn't want a park? Where does he get the idea that parks come cheap? (Look at how much that Santa Ysabel median planting/traffic calming has cost, and that is just a few islands and the sides of a road!!!)

He needs to visit the Tillman sewer plant/park in Van Nuys if he wants to se how this CAN be done as a great asset to a community.

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alon Perlman said...

Overnight the septic juices stew gasses straining at the lid. The septic tank pushes against the sand, morning comes, the sun warmth penetrates, the fittings hiss, fractures appear at the connect, the weak spot and…Crack like a starter’s Gun.
Way across town, a plastic bag floats emptily (Aint Life so un-bearingly Beautiful,…. Choke). A wind gust picks it up and it runs runs along the Tri-W midtown fence. Eyes strain from sockets.
Running southwest, the ‘Crack’ is not slowed footPerSeconds as it whisks throu the dawn mist, hopfrogs thru the disappearing fog, Whippet ears and eyes connect sight and sound as the gates spring open.
Aaaaaaa-and they’re off
With redrhino in the lead…
\Spectator has disqualified for an early start the previous night but don’t worry this is Lost Osos and the past doesn’t exist here, don’t rule out a late place finish.

Wait what’s down Horse/Dog? Running By the color of "King Big-Lion"
Right there a crumpled heap? No it's Ok. It's Getting up, Get a telephoto of that- What? It's hobbling off a little lamely.
It’s---Le-Faun The deer king. But it’s on the wrong side of the fence. It caught its fetlock in that Honest ground Squirrel burrow, now occupied by a nasty filthy nest of roof rats Rattus Sutherencaliforniesis Var. Parasiticus, Plague of ouches and puss boils, carriers of the nasty ItchoftheCrotch. So unhygienic. What was it doing over there in the first place?. It’s caught its leg in that stinkoftheHole at least three times, that I can remember. Will it never learn?
No Ritchard, This is not an invitation to Parley, Comprende-Voux.
I don’t do that with players of a lesser Class.
Now wash that thing off get all the Rat-droppings off it, Scrub it hard with Phenol, and come back a man.
I mean seriously. That wasted youth and his infantile father simply thrive on the kinds of gifts you gave them.
I mean Really, the Insurance issue re coverage of Indiv lawsuit’s costs was known by anyone who bothered to be at or watch the channel 20 Le-show. Uh like at least a year ago. It’s like you are handing out cheat sheets, with a profile of your face missing the nose, and expecting the JokesoftheleftbehindClass not to fill it in.
Importantly-A lawsuit that distracted a CSD that did not appear to be preparing for a bancruptcy is now not distracting a CSD that is.
Once you have washed of that Skanky Skunk, that Breath wastin hunta –Virus off’n ya I’d appreciate the rest of your presence. \
Respectfully, to a future potential You (RL)
Me
Oh Toons, This is not about parks los ossans could enjoy walking through.
This is About Talking The Talk through "The Parks of Righteousness".
People THE CSD OWNS The FENCE To The Local Snail Factory Outright. Read the Bay News, if Ch. 20 dont work fer ya.

Richard LeGros said...

Alon,

Oui, je comprends.

Alon Perlman said...

Temps d'escrime fini, Absence de fer, Bon

Sewertoons said...

You are right Alon, it isn't. It would be nice of the pseudo greens would take off their masks and just be who they are, "perfect sewer" proponents who will settle for NOTHING less, if you get my drift. That is still what this is all about, no matter how they try to dress it up.

Spectator said...

I just wanted the sewer. We needed the sewer. The park was a plus, good for kids, and a place for the illegal aliens to hang out with their kids after working hard all week. BBQ. Not this old fart.

Then there were the people who did not want to pay for anything, regardless, and the lies that it could be done cheaper and better. The BS by the obstructionist crowd is obvious now. AND we still do not have a sewer, any kind of sewer.

Richard says you are stirring the pot, and in my estimation you always have with Crawford. You both have cost the people of Los Osos a fortune through assumptions and nit picking of the worst degree. You ought to be ashamed.

Alon Perlman said...

Know thyself?
Taint that simple.
Every Individual is an Island,
It's just the siren song that connects them.
Plenty of Honest people who you could be proud to call friend on both sides.
For some it's truly "My Sewer".
For some it's "Look at me, I'm doing something important, LOOK AT ME!!!!"

What's my secret agenda?

Alon Perlman said...

Is the California Coastal Commission Helping or Hurting Los Osos?
At least whatever they are doin they’re doin it to ALL Los OSOS EQUALLY As in "Even the PZ outies get Dawdled".
Within the Broad Generalization Of ":No Sewer" that creates a void of communication and there, a family of rats could easily nestle.

An Wid All Due respeck, (and I say that seciliano back country style non of dose Milaneze pasta fazools wid their clean nails and soft shoes widda tin heels and short easy brakin shoo laysiz if yonowaddameen)
Where are Ann's and Ron's EIR submissions and CCC appeals?
Ok the PZLDF Lawsuit,
After all why were 4455 not hauled in?
IT WAS THE MOST EXPENSIVE SEWER IN MODERN HISTORY, (TILL NOW and Still Kachinging) IT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF TOWN. Ya gotta expect some opposition. Is there anyone here not repeating 2006.1 dogma?
Follow the bouncing ball

Where's Waldo?
Where's Gail McPherson?
Where's Al Barrow?
How many degrees of separation?
Who is collectin monies for those two?
How many degrees of separation?
"Follow the bouncing Ball"©
Word verification; laterc

Churadogs said...

Redrhino sez:"Another, more appropriate question is this ..."

There's a lot of really good questions, one of which is: Was the vote for a $35 a month AWIPS STEP ponding system also a vote for a $205 traditional gravity plan at Tri W? Or was that "morphing," which happened after the original vote, but wwwaaaaaayyyy before Lisa came onto the CSD, such a huge switch that it constituted "bait and switch," like CC Potter noted? Also, why was no vote (or even something like the county survey on preferences & etc.) ever taken before a plan was "finalized?" Like a vote between Plan A at site M for X$ vs Plan B at site L for Y$,in which this park-in-a-sewer was spelled out. Or even simpler, a vote between Do you want to pay X for a sewer with a park or Y for a sewer without a park. (One of Ron's key question concerns that SOC as the only reason keeping the sewer plant at the Tri-W site, which still remains the most interesting question.)

Toonces sez:"And ron's ASSERTION that we don't want parks is just plain WRONG."

Actually, the community voted in a $40 a YEAR assessment for a community pool and a youth program. The following year, when 218 forced a re-vote, the matter was defeated. Community wasn't willing to cough up $40 a YEAR for "recreation." There has, to my knowledge, been no vote on assessing ourselves for a park since then. (Alas) Which returns to Ron's question of where that SOC statement concerning overwhelming community support for parks & etc.being the driver for siting the sewer plant in the middle of town -- the sort of cart pushing the horse. Overwhelming community support was clearly NOT indicated by that 218 vote for anything to do with "recreation" and there's been no chance to vote on taxes for parks since then. But I find your connection between wanting parks and having no money for parks to linking parks with a sewer plant tellinging. But, as Ron has pointed out, SRF funds cannot be used for "amenities," like parks, unless you can figure out some way to manipulate the system, (or lie on an SOC?) thereby hiding parks in a sewer and sticking the people who voted against being taxed for "recreation" with the cost of a park-in-a-sewer hidden in their sewer bill. (Or should I say, the PZ people only.) Presume that kind of manipulation would qualify as "bait and switchy," but I also have to seriously wonder if the good folks of Los Osos had been made aware of that scheme, would they have overwhelmingly supported it or voted for it? The close recall vote seems to indicate there wasn't "overwhelming" support for the sewer-in-a-park: park-in-a-sewer plan. And another question remains: If, before ground was broken, there had been a vote on a clearly stated issue: Do you want an in town park-in-a-sewer for X$ or an out of town sewer, no park, for Y$, what would the outcome have been?

Spectator sez:"You both have cost the people of Los Osos a fortune through assumptions and nit picking of the worst degree. You ought to be ashamed."

Horse pucky. Here's what cost Los Osos a bundle: The failure to ask the above questions, the failure of the CC to ask criticial questions in a timely manner, the failure of a scheme to get a park in a sewer, rather than keeping the issues separate and allowing a clean process to dictate best practices and best siting. That, Spectator, are just some of the key things that pushed this train off the cliff. And guess who was standing by the tracks pointing out where the rails were heading?

Alon, a suggestion: Rococo writing often is not the best method of communicating. While it may be self amusing, It's too often self-defeating. I'm just sayin'

Richard LeGros said...

Stir, stir, stir the pot Ann.
All you'll accomplish is a sore arm.

Mike said...

...careful Richard, Ann put her money on the line... err...ok, she only signed on to a lawsuit and then let the CSD pay for her pot-stirring... yup, she sure has the best interests of the community, alright, ya got me again... she has HER best interests at heart...

Keep in mind, this is Ann's "opinion" blog and looking back, you can plainly see it is nothing more than an attempt to be a Howard Sterns wanta-be show... She never listened to you guys when the you worked thru the laws, regs, restrictions, licenses and water treatment technology... she never listened to Lisa and Tacker screwing the process at every possible turn... no, she only befuddled her way around, playing "reporter" and asking stupid "questions" to which she never wanted an answer, only wanted pot stir....

Alon Perlman said...

I appreciate the feed back Ann, and will take it to heart.
I also let my frustration at the co-mingling of the subjects you posted this last week bleed through.
I did clearly convey to a previous CSD (among others who did) that it was past due time for them to rescind a “Statement of Overriding Considerations”.
Big expensive public works projects in Coastal zones can get complicated.

However, sometimes I communicate directly to the people in front of me and have to disregard what the people behind me think of the language I choose. If I break through in a critical manner, to just one person, change may happen. Many times I have gotten through the hubbub, using this strategy and got the desired effect, to the possible benefit of others. I’m not in this just to be “popular”.
Nes Pas?
(Nes pas-I have no idea what that means, and won’t google it, but I think it fits-Ooh he’s doing it again! Baroquan communication)

Again, Thank you. I received the intervention/reminder, I shall work on it.

redrhino said...

Ann,

If there are lots of good questions out there ... why is it that you and Ron keep asking certain questions, pretending they haven't been answered at all? Just because you don't like what Richard and others have repeatedly told you when answering your question doesn't mean that the question hasn't been addressed.

On the other hand, the question I raised, which in fact has never been answered, is one that neither you nor Ron have ever ever ever asked.

I can only conclude you are somewhat biased. I guess we all are ... but people who pretend answered questions haven't been answered at all, people who mischaracterize and misrepresent the points of view of others and people who oversimplify and appeal to base human instinct instead of logic and rational thought are more demagogues and propagandists than anything else. Well, either that or pretty dense and unquestioning.

I'm not 'zactly puttin' you in that category, Ann, but I wonder about Ron most days. A "crack journalist" would probably be able to see both sides of an issue and be able to fairly summarize both ... and yet he never has done that even while claiming to be a reporter. I think he could fairly represent his pieces as opinion (like you do) and yet he doesn't. Maybe he missed that day in J school ... you know, when the topic is how to be a reporter and not a biased advocate.

Ron said...

Ann wrote:

"But, as Ron has pointed out, SRF funds cannot be used for "amenities," like parks,..."

Yep, I sure did point that out... in the form of an official, signed-and-dated challenge to the State Water Resources Control Board, that I filed in 2005, BEFORE they cut that illegal check that allowed the train wreck to go flying off the tracks and smashing into the orphanage.

And, right now, my 1-page, official challenge is sitting in a filing cabinet in Sacramento, and it's 100-percent relevant today.

You know what you should do, Los Osos? (And I realize this isn't the most novel idea when it comes to Los Osos.) You should have the CSD sue the State, and hold them liable for not only approving the Tri-W disaster, but illegally funding it.

Ya know, the CCC is holding the District responsible for cleaning up the mess at the Tri-W site, and that site work ain't gonna be cheap.

The LOCSD should print out my latest post, and say, "Screw you, State. YOU clean it up. It's your mess."

And then be sure to also include this quote:

"I admit that I probably didn't look at the specific language of the (Local Coastal Plan), the way I should have."
-- California Coastal Commission member, Sara Wan, August 11, 2004, discussing the Coastal Development Permit for the Tri-W project.

So, basically, the reason there's a gigantic hole in the middle of Los Osos, is because Sara Wan is lazy.

She should have to restore the Tri-W site. That'd teach her to START doing her homework.

Spec wrote:

"You both have cost the people of Los Osos a fortune through assumptions and nit picking of the worst degree. You ought to be ashamed."

I've always loved versions of that take -- the LOCSD plays "bait and switchy" with the CCC for four years, I expose that they played "bait and switchy" with the CCC for four years, and all of sudden, "bait and switchy" is MY fault.

Nice logic, Spec.

Mike said...

If ron had any real "PROOF" of any wrong doings... but then ron says he filed a challenge... well, it can only be concluded, that ron provided no (or insufficient) PROOF of any wrong doings by any body or any person...

Perhaps ron (and Ann) should take a lesson from TW to understand the legal process... $1.3 millon being removed from the CSD Bankruptcy is real proof of wrong doings...!!!!

Until ron sobers up and joins the world of today, all he can offer is meaningless meanderings of his own pipe dreams...

Ron said...

Wait a sec... I just thought of something.

I DO have a 2010 answer to my question:

Why did the CCC approve the Tri-W disaster?

Because Sara Wan is lazy.

Until the Coastal Commission tells me otherwise, THAT's the answer that's going in my book.

I also love the version of Mike's take: The SewerWatch haters would rather me NOT be shown right, than save money.

Seriously, Los Osos, you should think about doing my lawsuit idea. It'd save you a pot o' cash, and it'd be using my arguments, so that'd be sweet for me.

Win win.

Sewertoons said...

As with parks, I suppose just like anything else - people say that they want things but they DON'T want to pay for them - like clean water…

Good thing that there are people smarter than us to make us clean it up, after all, we dirtied it didn't we? If we continue down this path, what will we have to drink in a few years? Salty, yellow and brown water?

FOGSWAMP said...

It's understandable that sometimes it's uncomfortable for some folk when the pot is stirred, however, if you don't stir the pot, the stuff at the bottom just sits there.

We are living in a sorta tea-stirring times.

Mike said...

The wise person does not stir tea... only steeps gently with clean water... knowing there is a wonderful taste in the quest...

The unwise continue to stir and splash around in septic tanks with their dirty and too oft used stick of their own making...knowing they will again only find their own crap, but hopeing to find something new to chew on... and not knowing how they became so covered in their own muck, but thinking they want to share their misery...

M said...

Opinions from someone that lives in Arroyo Grande has no relevance in this discussion to me.
Sewertoons say's "after all, we dirtied it didn't we?" Prove it.
Sincerely, M

Mike said...

Good Morning M... If you are again "guessing" who I am, then you are once again mistaken... I do not live in Arroyo or even Santa Margarita...

...but if you enjoy Ann and ron's "stirring", just watch out how close you stand... and you are tasting the wrong pot if you even think that it is up to the homeowners to "prove" that they are or are not polluting or water supply, then you need to research the laws requiring "compliance" and the court rulings about that issue in Los Osos... has nothing to do with "proof" of contamination...

...but do keep guessing... just shows your lack of knowledge of the history of the Los Osos sewer... and there is indeed a sewer coming....!!!!

Churadogs said...

Richard sez:"Stir, stir, stir the pot Ann.
All you'll accomplish is a sore arm."

Here's another puzzling question: Remember when you said you were stick of this site and promised to go away forever and ever? Yet, here you are. Again. And again. And again. Guess it's another one of those Los Osos puzzles.

Red Rhino sez:""Did the citizens of Los Osos really know they were voting for additional pollution and higher costs when they voted for the recall?" If not, weren't we ripped off by those we elected to get a job done?"

I don't think the citizens voted to have fellow citzens behind the scenes urging the RWQCB to "fine the CSD out of existence," but that effort was underway even before the recall votes were counted. Nor did the voters vote to start the project before the recall vote, thereby blowing tons of money; that decision wasn't the citizens, it fell on 3 CSD directors. For years, the citizens had asked for a vote, very similar to what the county would later do during their "process," of a "choice," -- triW vs out of town, etc. That vote was denied, again by 3 CSD directors. I also think the citizens voted to "amend the project, move the sewer plant," which would have happened in the October Compromise. The failure of that raises another question that remains unanswered: This project was salvagable, even after the disasterous decision to start work before the recall, had all the players stopped, took a deep breath, and moved forward. All doable, but a lot of people behind the scenes truly fought like tigers to stop the salvage and push for absolute destruction. Why?

Ron sez:"So, basically, the reason there's a gigantic hole in the middle of Los Osos, is because Sara Wan is lazy."

I suspect you may be right. I would also add that the entire Commission likely did NOT stop to ask what Potter was talking about when he used the words "bait and switchy." Too much effort to persue that red flag. It's also critical to remember that when you paint one group of people as "crazies," then when they tell the truth, they won't be believed. Los Osos has seen that technique at work for years: someone asking a serious question or raising a serious issue is branded as an "anti-sewer obstructionist," instead of someone asking a serious question that needs to be looked at. You saw that at work most recently. The Sustainability Group was repeatedly dismissed (those "anti-sewer obstructionists!) until Planning Commisisoner Christie took a look at what they were actually saying and then required staff to look more closely and, ta-DA!, turns out their points actually would work, and we now have a shot at a better project thanks to the work of those "anti-sewer obstructionist crazies." That kind of deliberate distortion has repeatedly caused problems for this project, from day one.

FOGSWAMP said...

Mike

"The wise person does not stir tea" .

Brush the tea leaves from your false teeth, you just flunked "Tea Making 101".

If one is British, Canadian or European and likes to drink tea, you would most likely use a splash of milk and a half teaspoon, or a cube of sugar. Or with herbal tea use honey and perhaps lemon.

My "wise" parents taught me ( around age 6) to stir the aforementioned ingredients in order to fully acquire the good taste you mention.

My father would add a shot of whisky at bedtime and of course "stir" gently.

So, I guess you could say your "wisecrack" was an "unwise-crack" eh.

Ron said...

Ann, your posts are excellent. So readable.

Ann wrote:

"It's also critical to remember that when you paint one group of people as "crazies," then when they tell the truth, they won't be believed."

That point might just be THE most critical point in this entire mess, and it goes straight to the heart of behavior based marketing.

That point is WHY the train wreck's lasted so long. That's WHY everyone gets so "Jedi mind tricked" when it comes to Los Osos.

Think about it: If the person that is deliberately painting the people that aren't on her side as "crazies," and "obstructionists," and, "hacks," and "conspiracy theorists," and that same person is also a respected community "leader," and a former "Person of the Year," and a long-time public official, and on a first-name-basis with EVERY influential media member, politician, and law enforcement official, how long do you think it's going to take for the train wreck to not only come to a stop, but then for rescue operations to start?

That's going to take a loooooooooong time, and it has... and counting.

Ann:

"Nor did the voters vote to start the project before the recall vote, thereby blowing tons of money; that decision wasn't the citizens, it fell on 3 CSD directors."

Gets worse.

As I reported at this link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2006/09/californias-recall-elections-code.html

... after listening to potential voters tell them, at about a 10 -1 clip, to place the recall election date at one of the earliest possible dates, the CSD3 promptly ignored all of those voters, and placed it at one of the latest dates, and that decision bought them the extra month they need to needlessly begin construction... construction that was funded with that illegal SRF check... that I formally challenged... BEFORE the State cut that illegal check.

In other words, had Darrin Polhemus simply listened to me on the phone that day in 2005 -- when I first discovered how his office was about to illegally fund millions of dollars of park crap for Los Osos with money that is supposed to be used ONLY for water clean-up things -- and NOT cut that $6.5 million check, the Tri-W site would NEVER have been touched, and the last five years of Los Osos train wreck would have never happened. (Good god, is my Pulitzer application going to rock, or what?!)

So, Los Osos, there's how you get off the hook for paying for the Tri-W restoration today -- argue that some smart-ass reporter formally challenged (as per SRF policy) that loan BEFORE it was issued, the smart-ass reporter was/is 100-percent right, that check should have never been cut, the smart-ass reporter made State officials aware (time-stamped) that they were about to illegally fund a multi-million park for Los Osos, yet they ignored him, and funded it anyway, and if they had NOT ignored the smart-ass reporter, the Tri-W site would have never been touched.

So, now, in 2010, the State's liable for the site's restoration.

Los Osos, who's your Daddy?

Alon Perlman said...

Speakin of Tea
LIVE ALERT
In a few short Hours Copa De ORO
Will be closing its doors
This is a Sad Day for BayWood


Please come by.
Santa Maria and Third
They may close sometime past noon till 2
“When The Coffee runs out”
Proprietor, Mat

If they do, order a sandwich (Fantastic)and say goodbye.

You too Ron, Slalom the El-Camino down 41.

(Bay pier “Good Tides” will continue to serve our district)

Mike said...

GOOD TEA is NOT stirred... nor is it neccessary to add other ingredents (they just rot your teeth)... I still have all my god given teeth and a full head of hair...

Good spirits, scotch for instance, does not need to be diluted... you might as well drink Coors beer if you put anything but clear ice in good spirits...

Opps... probably just made ron todder off for another Coors...

Sewertoons said...

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Later - after 3:00 p.m., the CSD will have its very own copy of THE REPORT. The 1,000 page document that has certain community members very upset. THAT report. So if you want to peruse it, or have the CSD make you copies of it - or parts of it - (there is a fee, but can't recall what that is) - go to the CSD office. They are open M-F with an hour off for lunch between 12 and 1. An easier destination than going into SLO.

I heard rumor that the County is going to post this thing online - but I don't know when that will be - I just checked and it isn't there yet.

Sewertoons said...

M, If the fact that we have 8 to 12 homes per acre on septics, (when there should only be 1 to adequately detox waste), cannot convince you that there is pollution, nothing ever will. Please explain WHAT would convince you.

Ann, please explain how changing the location was ever going to go smoothly when half the town was OK with the plant where it was?

The players who did not want to move forward in the October compromise were the Lisa Board. There needed to be a bridge loan to keep the District going and to hold a 218. They didn't do it. Did you ever ask them why?

M said...

Actually, slightly less than half of the town were not OK with the Tri-W site. They were resigned to it. Many people at the first CSD meeting after the recall spoke about how they were not particularly thrilled with Tri-W, if we must we must. If the recalled directors had any sense of the pulse of the community, they should have seen what happened coming. They should have simply taken the necessary steps to get the ship righted again. After all, they were supposed to be representing us were'nt they?
If we indeed have 8-12 houses on an acre, the County permitted them. If 8-12 houses on an acre is too many how could they have been permitted? Did the County not know that we got water from the upper aquafier? Why do several scientific experts believe septic tanks are not the problem, and the other side says, "well, there must be a problem if there's that many."
Mike, I noticed in your denial that you didn'y say that you do live in Los Osos. So i'll take that as a statement that you don't. I do live here, and have lived here for a long time. I do know the sewer history. How long have we been given to comply with the law? 27 years? You tell me one other instance of any non-compliance with a law from the State for 27 years. Must be a pretty weak law.
Just as I can't say "OJ did it, although I know he did, i'm pretty sure I know who you are. Certainly not through any sort of investigative thing or anything, but I pay attention to things. And I stumbled across something and said whoa, whoa, whoa. Here it is. here is your identity. Though I don't have a face to put to you, I do know where your're coming from.
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

M,
Did Julie or Lisa think bankrupting the community was representing the community's best interests? Wouldn't building Tri-W (or going along with the October Compromise) have been a better result for us than years more of aquifer degradation from saltwater intrusion and added pollution PLUS CDO's and NOV's and bankruptcy??

Just because the County allowed it, doesn't mean that they did the right thing for the environment. I know people who lived here then too - and the story was the County delayed the sewer to get enough people to pay for what was going to be an expensive project. What was wrong was the piecemeal planning without charging developers to put in the infrastructure. What was wrong was allowing the community itself to decide whether or not it wanted a sewer. What was wrong was sitting on the sewer idea when we could have gotten that 1980's money (thanks Bud Laurent). Scientific experts disagree all the time. That is a given. It is just how many of each stack up on each side.

Please explain - I recently spoke to a man who has lived here since the early 70's. After the rush of building occurred in the early 80's, the upper aquifer, which had been used to drink from, was now too full of nitrates to be used. What could have done that? Ancient buried forests? Cows? Or the addition of 6,000 to 7,000 more people on crammed-in lots?

Churadogs said...

Ron sez:"In other words, had Darrin Polhemus simply listened to me on the phone that day in 2005 -- when I first discovered how his office was about to illegally fund millions of dollars of park crap for Los Osos with money that is supposed to be used ONLY for water clean-up things -- and NOT cut that $6.5 million check, the Tri-W site would NEVER have been touched, and the last five years of Los Osos train wreck would have never happened. (Good god, is my Pulitzer application going to rock, or what?!)"

that certainly 'splains why both the SWB and the local RWACB were more than hapy to "fine the CSD" -- and Los Osos -- "out of existence." A non-existent CSD and a community under fire will NOT have the resources to persue the answer to that question. That also 'splains why the state AG, Jerry Brown, is NOT asking about that SRF "park" loan or your time-stamped complaint.


toonces sez:"Later - after 3:00 p.m., the CSD will have its very own copy of THE REPORT. The 1,000 page document that has certain community members very upset. THAT report."

glad to hear it. I noticed the Tribune gave Paavo a brickbat for not making that report more available, ESPECIALLY this close to the critical CC hearings. I don't know about anybody else, but I want that report readily accessible so various groups can nit-pick it totally, then show up at the CC hearings with all their nits in a row and (please God) this time let the Commisisoners (including Sarah Wan) NOT fall asleep at the switch, so that this time i's will be correctly dotted and t's crossed, and there will be NO bait and switchy or any other weirdness.

toonces also sez:"What was wrong was sitting on the sewer idea when we could have gotten that 1980's money (thanks Bud Laurent)."

If memory serves, the federal dollars were all gone before Bud ran for office. That was the problem. The RWQCB made a "finding," (which is how you began the process to shake that federal money tree) and when the $ dried up, the "finding" was left there. No way to say, heh-heh, just kidding, and back out. The County, of course, kept issuing permits. This was a trainwreck from day one and the origins of the Us vs THEM paranoid go back to George Gibson & Roger Shields (CAWS) and the way 83-13 & 12 was written and administered, or in the case of 83-12 NOT administered.

M sez:"Mike, I noticed in your denial that you didn'y say that you do live in Los Osos. So i'll take that as a statement that you don't."

Anonymous Mikeeee, who makes stuff up and is, well, Anonymous, doesn't live in Los Osos? Can this possibly be true? How would anyone know since Mikee makes stuff up and is, well, an Anonymice.

Sewertoons said...

We can thank Marshall and Maria for getting the CSD a copy of the report. They did the work to make it so.

Mike said...

Is this now guess who the anonomus are...??? So far I've been named as at least 5 or 6 others... So now we play the guess where they live game... Are you really sure I don't live on 7th St (actually have owned a couple rentals there, including the first house I ever owned), maybe try Cabrillo or Clark Canyon or even Cuesta-by-the Sea... or maybe Cayucos or Morro or Baywood... maybe nex door to Piper or Lisa or Ann..

...and ron, the drunk lives in Los Osos...???

No, you haven't "outed" me, but apparently are concerned... perhaps because I represent more of the community than the "activists"...??? ...just where do they all live...??? hmmmm....???? Does Julie live in Los Osos...??? How about Gail....????

How long have you lived here...??? I was born over 65 years ago in the SLO General Hospital... Graduated from SLO Hi (there was no high school in Morro back then) and have a BS from Poly, grew up with Jack Tonini... even hunted deer up Perfumo Canyon and down into Diablo Canyon before I worked there long ago... I still kayak in Morro Bay, Lopez and Laguna Lake... but enough of that...

I've watched this cirque de sewer never dreaming LO would become the activist center of the world... So continue your games, the bottom line remains chiseled in granite, not the magic sand a few of you remaining aggitator activists worship... There is a real sewer coming to Los Osos... and most of the community embraces that step into the modern world inspite of the few befuddled old pot stirrers, drunk out of town hacks, clowns, trolls, dwarfs and mental cases...

Keep guessing, it just shows how insecure you are in your pot stirring... Keep wringing your hands and attempting to nitpic and throwing down your shovels...the rest of Los Osos is laughing at you and really doesn't care what you think.... The Sewer is coming to Los Osos...!!!!!

M said...

Mikeeee has left his bio all over the place. It wasn't hard to connect the dots. My only surprise is that someone hasn't connected them before.
Sewertoons lists many events that have brought us to this point. Starting way back when. None of them the fault of the property owner. But now we are left to pick up the tab? You site stuff going back to the 80's, but it's always Lisa and Julie. With all of you it's Lisa and Julie. Would you be leaving thanks for the County project report if Lisa and Julie had been instrumental in obtaining it?
Sincerely, M

M said...

Well, while I was typing my latest post, there's Mikeeee posting more of his bio and confirming what I had discovered. I have no intentions of "outing you", but if you leave something of a slanderous nature, I will see that whoever it is that is slandered will receive your name from me. If it is not you then you have nothing to worry about. Right?
Sincerely, M

Mike said...

I'm not worried... but please walk around with your eyes and ears open...there are some pretty outrageous and inflamitory statements still being made by a few of the most vocal activists... and do look up the legal definition of slander...

M said...

I'm not going to go any further with this Mike. I just wanted to stand up on a table and yell, " I figured out who makes all these outragous comments!!!"
Sincerely, M

Mike said...

lol.... and you play the righteous so well... snicker, snicker...

Mike said...

...before I get out to do a few chores, just wanted to remind y'all to thank all the TaxPayers Watch folks... you know, the ones who actually held the CSD5 responsible for misappropriation of our tax dollars...!!!!

How's that PZLDF lawsuit going...???

The Razor said...

M, if you can, please send me what you know about Mr. !!!! here. Thank you!

M said...

Sorry Razor. I gave my word that I had no intention of outing him. Should he do something egregious from here on out, I might change my mind.
Sincerely, M

M said...
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M said...
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Sewertoons said...
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Sewertoons said...

Some of the property owners fought this sewer long and hard which is why we are where we are today.

Those of us who bought recently got our discount by buying here. In 2005 when we bought, it was here or Morro Bay (Morro Bay has a sewer). Here you got the bigger house, the bigger property - but knew someday you would pay for the sewer.

Why does it have to be the "fault" of the property owner? How about "that's life?" Other people owned lots, they got permits to develop them. The town got to be too big to be on septics. The County tried at some point to do something. People didn't want to pay and the County let them get away with it. But the property owner NEVER had no responsibility to clean up the mess. As we have seen, "we delay, we pay."

If you think Julie's whining got us the report - good for you. Please explain that one though, when it was Marshall asking the County nicely and Maria plunking down her $20 and picking it up to bring it to the CSD office. You will notice that's when we got some action. (Lisa? What's she got to do with it?)

Alon Perlman said...

The county staff responded diligently Friday,. Kudos to County Clerk-Recorder for her hard work. coming close to completing the mission at the very end of business day, Friday April,9th,'10
County Staff did work past 5:30 PM on the scanning portion. The Document is in Three parts and can reached via the link below. As predicted elsewhere the Scanned documents are not searchable or “Cut and Paste-able”.
Part 1 Currently was halted at 533 Pages Starting with a blank page and Jan 27 letter to Jonna Engel of CCC and ending in wetland delineation site 7 figure 5 (This link was not provided to the general public as the County may need to make additional changes or additions, or even rescan that portion to Part I, before Official release expected by end of day Monday). There is now also a full copy at The CSD Office on 9th street which will benefit those residents who are not computer savvy, or have difficulty reading from a screen. All three documents will be here eventually (Currently parts 2 and 3)
http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/PW/LOWWP