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Friday, July 09, 2010

Smack! Smack! Smack!

Andrew Christie, in the July/Aug Santa Lucian newsletter of the Sierra Club ( http://www.santalucia.sierraclub.org/ click on "Santa Lucian" on the sidebar to the right)  has a few choice words on the Los Osos Sewer Project, among which was the very apt observation that “. . . instead of “conducting a genuine public process, the County behaved as though it were running the war room of a political campaign and trying every trick in the book to get its guy elected.” Including, Christy notes, a “’community survey’ distributed to determine if residents of Los Osos would rather have a gravity system or a STEP system, [that] was virtually a self-parody of the ‘pick a card, any card, pick the one in the middle’ genre of stacked-deck push-polling, with leading questions designed to elicit only the desired (gravity) response.” (Heh-heh, a deliciously apt description of our infamous “Community Survey.”

Then he runs through a brief history of the transit from what the County originally proposed (sprayfields): “Narrow, status-quo groupthink came up with a project that, by design, would do only one thing: collect, treat and dispose of waste-water. Replacing the groundwater that would be lost, preserving environmentally sensitive habitat, maintaining the aquifer and avoiding its total loss to rapidly advancing seawater intrusion were deemed by the SLO County Department of Public Works to be issues of secondary importance and/or beyond the scope of the project.”

And adds that “it is a sad fact that every member of the County Board of Supervisors accepted this .. . one-trick pony version of the sewer despite the fact that, for several years, we spelled out its deficiencies to them in detail, and the necessity for agricultural reuse of the treated water inside the basin and more aggressive water conservation measures.”

Until intervention by the Planning Commission (headed by his sister, Sarah) that put the project on a more sustainable path, noting that “. . .the Planning Commission listened to and acted on what residents, environmental groups and independent experts were telling them. The Planning Commission tore up the inadequate plan and insisted on a project that comprehensively addresses the Los Osos’ water issues.” And that [Sarah] “Christie used public input to guide a remake of the project, making it possible for it to receive a Coastal Development Permit.”

And at the end of the long recap, in a long overdue sidebar, Christie goes on to thank and acknowledge some major players:

Dana Ripley and the Ripley Report that spelled out the practicality of ag water reuse and the “imperative to seal the sections of the collection system to be laid in areas of known high groundwater.”

Keith Wimer, of the Los Osos Sustainability Group, “and high on the County’s list of Least Favorite Persons,” . . . who “was steadfast in sounding the alarm on seawater intrusion and the necessity that the problem be addressed in and integrated with the wastewater treatment project, not separately and sometime later.”

Sarah Christie and the Planning Commission.

And, finally and delightfully, a big Thank You, Troublemakers, a shout out to all the Board of Supervisor’s “least favorite people.” Of those people, Mr. Christie says: “In the end, the Los Osos sewer saga was not a spectacle or a soap opera, nor endless, wall-to-wall strife and divisiveness for its own sake. Enough of the dust has settled for this much to be clear: The citizens of Los Osos have racked up a record of civic courage

above and beyond the call of duty. And as it turns out, that was a smart move. Had a sewer been built three decades ago, or even ten years ago, that project would not have contemplated groundwater loss and the peril to the aquifer from seawater intrusion, let alone ways to solve those problems. Instead, it would have greatly aggravated them, and disaster would have followed.

“And the potential solutions to those problems would not be part of the project today if the Sierra Club, Surfrider, The Los Osos Sustainability Group, SLO Green Build and concerned residents hadn’t spoken up and insisted on being heard despite constant shouts to shut up and sit down and “just do it.”

“The “secondary issues’ have been forced onto the table, where they can no longer be dealt with later. They must be dealt with now. “

Smack! Smack! Smack.

And there, in the midst of Christie’s recap, is the real tragedy of Los Osos: The ability of a small group of people to frame an issue wrongly, and then brand any input, no matter how scientifically sound or valid that didn’t follow the party line as “anti-sewer obstruction,” an incorrect label that then allowed any and all non-party-line input to be shut out, shut up and shut down. That and the unfortunate willingness of elected officials and appointed ones, to go along with whatever grand lie was easiest.

It’s a government failure. And a human one. It’s far easier to do the simple wrong thing than take the time to slog through the complex stuff needed to do the complicated right thing.

So, Thank You, Los Osos Troublemakers, indeed.

Run Away!

I’m not a runner. My dogs walk me, but run? Nope. But a friend send me a birthday present book that’s a doozie: “Born to Run; A Hidden Tribe, Superatheletes, and the Greatest Race the World Has Never Seen,” by Christopher McDougall.

McDougall was a former war correspondent for the AP, contributes to Men’s Health, has written for Esquire, The New York Times Magazine, and other publications. He’s a wonderful writer, very funny, very engaging, and even if you’ve never run a single step and have absolutely NO interest in Ultra-marathoners or the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico, the world’s greatest long distance runners who actually run down deer for dinner – literally, run the thing down for hours and hours until it drops from exhaustion, while they’re good to go for another 100 mile – you will be totally engaged by this book.

Plus, you get the added bonus of his research into how Nike has absolutely ruined a whole generation of joggers who ran in their high tech shoes and thus destroyed their knees and hips, when all they really needed was to learn something important from a small band of Indians hiding out in the remote Copper Canyon wilderness of Mexico.

It’s a great read!

123 comments:

Richard LeGros said...

Ann,

Regardless of Mr. Christie's opinions about 'process'...or your championing of local 'heroic behavior', you will never-the-less have to accept the reality that has been wrought...and have to live with the results too. If you want to sugar-coat you and yours unproductive past behavior, then be my guest. You have 'paid' for the privilege. At this point in 'the process', the Los Osos WWTP design is set; with construction soon to begin (again). Best prepare for the financial hit to come. Good luck!

M said...

Thanks for your brilliant thoughts on this Richard. Construction soon to begin? We haven't even picked the contractors yet have we? Oh that's right,they have. MWH. And once again Richard, I would like to give you a big thanks for reminding us once again of the poor choice we made in not following your lead. I would like to point out some of your "unproductive past behaviour" though. Better, Cheaper, Faster. Does that ring a bell? Ponds of Avalon, Wave Walls, Tot Lot, Ampitheater, most EXPENSIVE treatment possible. Oh that's right, you disagreed with that group didn't you? So what i'll do is join that group and bring the people the most expensive sewer per capita in the country. Does that about sum it up? Of course your behaviour is not going to be an issue with you, cause you won't have to pay for it.
Of course every time I think about Richard I think of "I have f****** balls". When Ron reminds us of where to send our contributions for "Celebrate Los Osos" and then left the link for it, after looking at it I thought 'she's got em like a lion.'
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

M, etc.,

What are you going to say to yourselves when you get the bill for this out-of-town sewer? Did the people you elected to move it out of town fulfill their promises to you? No, they achieved losing the project altogether and causing a bankruptcy. The County moved it out of town and the bill will reflect the wisdom of that.

I don't get why people are so unsuspicious of salesmen who came in after Pandora. You verbally beat her to a pulp, yet you believe Mr. Piranha, Mr. Wrecklamator and Mr. Ripley (not to mention Orenco's minions). That makes NO sense whatsoever.

Richard LeGros said...
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Richard LeGros said...
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M said...

Ok Richard. I've had it with you. You obviously have no conscience so we will never have a meeting of the minds. The fact that you have all the dates, ramifications, consequences of actions regarding Los Osos is troubling in that you must still be involved to a degree greater than probably 95% of this community. I thought it was clear that the voting public did not want you involved in our politics. As a private citizen you of course have every right to be involved with the LOCSD affairs. I just find it odd that you are still so involved with the sewer since you will not have to pay or hook up to it.
Sewertoons, was/is Pandora not the world's best salesperson? Wasn't Pandora's plan deemed not to be workable right from the git go and yet she was given the go ahead to take it on? Pure salesmanship. Where did that get us? When did the Ripley Plan come out? Wasn't that the plan the LOCSD after the recall brought forth? Were the figures accurate? We'll never know. I do however believe that that Plan would have been acceptable from the start. Alterations of course. This happens in any large project. Again, we'll never know how that would have turned out. Just as right now, how can you say what our cost is going to be? No bids, no blueprints, no securement of funding. What if it all turns out significantly less? Will you then praise those that fought against Tri-W? Some time you ought to take a look from the north side of the Church parking lot looking out on Tri-W. And you want to desecrate this with a sewer plant?
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

What is wrong with being involved with what is happening to the community? If more people WERE really involved, you know, looked at FACTS instead of believing the rhetoric of the Julies and the Als and the Lisas and the Gails -- we would not be in this mess. But since we ARE in this mess - the more information we can have, the better.

How is it that ponds and Step/Steg were at the forefront of Al/Orenco/Ripley blathering, yet you claim, "Pandora's plan deemed not to be workable right from the git go and yet she was given the go ahead to take it on," -- her plan was ponds and Step/Steg? Why was all of that brought back out again?

Richard is not running for office, he is offering up information about what is going on. Richard hooking up to the sewer or not can only be opined on if you include the Goldins - who also will NOT be affected the way we PZers are - but who have been VERY verbal on this topic for years.

BTW - Ripley was here with Al back in 2004 or maybe earlier. His totals were not accurate in that they left out a lot of the costs to finish the project. You will note that he originally said 95% of the tanks needed to be replaced, and that his latest pitch at the the Coastal Commission was to line most of the old tanks to make them water tight to achieve cost savings. Funny, he left out the part about these same tanks being UNDERSIZED for a Step application…

If this project comes out to be significantly less, I will be thrilled. But with all of the costs for the extra conditioning laid onto the project by the heavy campaigning from the Sierra Club and Surfrider and The Sustainability Group -- I will be very surprised, no SHOCKED, if it is.

Richard LeGros said...
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Richard LeGros said...
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Alon Perlman said...

Yes, the Tonini project was on a trajectory to a CCC no fly zone.
So thanks for the honorable mention Andrew, good thing we stopped it, before it got shot down over hostile territory, but...

Post March the project at the CCC was going into an area far from the EIR and far from Los Osos.
And waiting for the CCC to bring it back to a SLO location would had only removed it further than Los Osos. While the finger intrusion was worming it's way through. The project is OVERCONDITIONED. The CCC staff are the experts, not the commissioners.
Most of the late additional mitigation’s cost more and do not help critical dune habitat. The return of waters to the aquifers is reduced by the actions of the last few months.

A commitment to Aquifer recharge was not made. Instead a commissioner was under the impression that 400 AFI would be removed from Willow Creek.
That could had resulted in a real “waste” water situation. The CSD rightly requested a rewording on the “At least 10% ag and 10% environmental mitigation”. There are problems with instituting Graywater, and the current graywater manual will not resolve that.
Pay attention Los Osos, there are no more cheep tweaks from here on out.

Word verification; demils
Move on Cecil B; Is this a movie with a cast of thousands?

Running with deer, conservation style-sometimes you avoid the kill because you can't carry it back.

Sewertoons said...

January 2006 - The Santa Lucian lists some of the projects it was involved in influencing in 2005. It is interesting that the claim in the latest issue which states, "…we fought for the deal brokered between the Los Osos CSD and the State Water Board that (almost) saved the project's State Revolving Fund loan," was given not even a teeny, tiny mention, nor is that "fight" mentioned in the November/December '05 issue either.

The Santa Lucian started archiving its issues online in November of 2002. I am up to October of 2004, where it has political endorsements for Lisa and Julie. However, where are the articles of outrage on the proposed Los Osos sewer? Nary a mention!

Another interesting factoid on the Sierra Club Santa Lucia chapter - June 2004 it hosts a man speaking on the topic of "Water Privatization" and how horrible that is. Below the Los Osos article in the July/August 2010 issue is an article extolling the virtues of PERC water placing themselves in the Morro Bay/Cayucos wastewater picture. Giving them a $75,000 design report - for FREE!

PERC's website lists that they do Design-Build-Operate-Finance. "PERC Water has operated every facility we have designed and built." In this situation - who exactly owns the water? And they build MBR plants - which are called "energy hogs" in Los Osos, but not across the bay apparently.

The February 2004 issue has an interesting article entitled, "Outside Interests Push to Hijack Sierra Club."

May 2004 Andrew Christie becomes "Chapter Coordinator" and editor for the Santa Lucian Chapter of the Sierra Club. And in 2009 and 2010 we have seen his particularly strong endorsement of Step at Planning Commission, BOS and Coastal Commission hearings. And a lovely picture of Ripley is featured on page 10. Why become such a strong advocate for Step on one hand and PERC Water on the other?

Sewertoons said...

Quote the Santa Lucian, "…thanks to three decades of Los Osos not being able to build a sewer," it goes on to state how the Water Board now has better rules for recycling water, and that the old location was so egregiously awful that the agony that this small town has endured, never mind the expense, is somehow justified as, "a smart move!"

Like their lofty goals could not have been achieved ANY OTHER way than DELAY!

Let's see, the sewer now costs $25,000 a property - or more, the upper aquifer is further polluted, the lower aquifer is in Stage III overdraft, we owe on the CSD's bankruptcy, people really will be leaving and the town's morale is in shreds.

I am appalled and insulted by that insensitive and crass assertion. It has no place in what I used to believe the Sierra Club stood for. Shame on you who do not edit before you print.

Churadogs said...

Toonces sez:"I don't get why people are so unsuspicious of salesmen who came in after Pandora. You verbally beat her to a pulp, yet you believe Mr. Piranha, Mr. Wrecklamator and Mr. Ripley (not to mention Orenco's minions). That makes NO sense whatsoever."

Interesting you should lump these three together as if they were equal. The Piranha, the Reclamator were devices that worked to improve the function of a septic tank, hence "improving" the quality of it's output. Those systems didn't reduce nitrates enough to help Los Osos. (and there wasn't any way to verify Mr. Murphy's numbers but in theory anyway, his system should work to improve things a bit) Ripley's plan, interestingly, had components in it that are now being incorporated, i.e. ag re-use & etc. But the STEP system is no sales trick and had it been allowed to continue in The Process, as promised, the community might have seen real cost comparisons and real cost/benefit numbers. More irony, the AWIPS Ponding system worked also and could have been looked at seriously had the RWQCB not made the fatal mistake of NOT considering this area in terms of overall nitrate load on the whole basin. With the AWIPS the community would face an interesting choice: impose a much lower build-out and permanent moritorium past that number, collect and treat the low lying part of the town, mandate newer onsite systems as they came along to improve the quality of the discharge (such systems likely to be very expensive)for a reduced overall nitrate load. Still wouldn't solve the water shortage and there was the problem of the alge, but . . . .

So,there have been multiple choices as to how to skin this cat over the years. The problem always has been a lack of honesty in proceedure,in the science, certainly the claimed costs,and for many years, real ignorance of the problem itself -- water vs nitrates, --what's the real danger. That went missing early on, which lead to a piecemeal approach, even today.

Richard LeGros said...

Come on Folks!

Opining endlessly over history...or speculations about what MIGHT have been if this or that had happened (which did not), is pointless.
The past is unchangeable.
We need to focus on the PRESENT REALITY BEFORE US and move on.

Here is where reality is today....

Ann, etal, want to stop the process dead in it tracks to (yet again) review all the pretty options before Los Osos....all the while giving no care or resolution to the daily sewer spill into our aquifer (11 billion gallons since 1980), continued daily dumping of sewage into the bay (3.5 billion gallons since 1980), or the continued destruction of our water supply by salt water intrusion.

Meanwhile...

I, etal, want to see the daily pollution and destruction of our water supply by building a WWTP IMMEDIATELY. TIME (not the type of technology used) is what is relentlessly forcing costs UP. To spend MORE time to again review our 'options' is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE as during the time spent to conduct a review, inflation costs will overtake and destroy any 'savings' realized. In the end, whatever WWTP realized will be more expensive than previous WWTP.

Need proof of this?....If you graph LOWWTP costs over time, an undeniable fact emerges; that over time there is an upward trend in costs REGARDLESS of the technology or treatment site selected.

FOGSWAMP said...

One of the good things about the delay and the County Plan is that it resulted in a more intelligent location for the treatment plant.

Also, comparing item for item, construction costs will probably be less at this point in time.

Today, the nation is experiencing the longest and steepest recession since WW2 and the outlook for the commercial construction industry remains grim. Even the long term forecast is fuzzy at best.

Richard LeGros said...

M,

As I said, believe what you want.

It is nice you are hopeful that costs will be less due to the current financial situation....but that sentiment is a really, really big IF; and not upheld by historical reference. Maybe such a miracle will happen; but probably not. Do not rely on such a largess occuring.

The County's project (estimated to be $182,000,000) will have to bid out $27,000,000 LESS than expected just to EQUAL the cost of the 2005 Tri-W Project.

Also, do not forget that the County is relying upon selling bonds with a term of 30 years instead of 20 years per the Tri-W Project. While the longer term payments of the bond will result in slightly less monthly interest payments when compared to a 20 year term, the reality is that you will end up paying substantially more as you are paying monthly interest fees for an additional 10 YEARS.
That additional 10 years of interest payments will add approximately $23,000 in interest costs for each rate payer. If the Tri-W project had been built, the additional $23,000 in interest payments would have been avoided entirely.

Ron said...

Ann wrote that 'toons wrote (sorry, 'toons, I had to get your take from Ann quoting you, because when I see the word "Sewertoons" at the top of a post, I usually just scroll through it... no offense ; -)

So... Ann wrote that 'toons wrote:

""I don't get why people are so unsuspicious of salesmen who came in after Pandora. You verbally beat her to a pulp..."

[sniff... ... ... sniff]

Awww, poor Pandora.

Ya know what I'd bet would cheer her up, 'toons? If you sent her a FAT check to "350 Mitchell Drive," like it said in the Bay News the other day.

Yep, I'm 100-percent positive that'd REEEEELY cheer her up.

Richdora wrote:

"If you graph LOWWTP costs over time, an undeniable fact emerges; that over time there is an upward trend in costs REGARDLESS of the technology or treatment site selected."

Then why did you waste seven years and $25 million futilely chasing the wildly unpopular, "infeasible" Tri-W embarrassment/disaster/failure?

My favorite part of the county's project development process, was when I asked Mark Hutchinson, environmental specialist for the county, to, today, put himself in the shoes of the people responsible for wasting all of that time and money developing the Tri-W "project," and he just laughed... out loud.

That's my favorite part of the entire process.

Yep, Richdora, you and yours are the laughing stock of the entire civil engineering community.

They laugh AT you, literally.

Great!

M said...

Interesting that Richard drones on about thinking about what's in front of us, yet never fails to mention as it relates to Tri-W.
Another way to look at it is we've saved $200 a month so far from whenever that would have started.
Sewertoons is an interesting study. Buys a house here during tumultous times thrilled that the town will finally get a real sewer at over $200 a month. When that doesn't happen goes on a pilgrimage to get that real sewer as soon as possible. Countless hours attending meetings. Countless hours studying archives of the sewer. Takes on multiple identities with the word sewer in them on comment sections. Interesting.
Richard, pay attention. I think your last comment was directed at FOGSWAMP. Not me.
Sincerely, M

Ron said...

Ya know... because it's an easy Saturday morning, I just went and read the entire Santa Lucian article, and Ann is dead-on right: "Smack! Smack! Smack!"

That Andrew Christie guy is a tremendous smack runner. (Who's he think he is? Me?)

I mean, look at some of this stuff:

"The staff was wrong, the public was right. Another good lesson for our County Supervisors to learn."

and;

"Sarah Christie showed the County Supervisors what a public process is."

and;

"And today (we hope), no one could propose to build a sewage plant just uphill from an estuary and assert in the Environmental Impact Report that there could be “no impacts” on that estuary from that project. But nine years ago, an EIR said just that about the Tri-W sewer plan for Los Osos."

and;

"... the Ripley Pacific Study, the National Water Research Institute, the Los Osos Wastewater Project Technical Advisory Committee, and the County all confirmed that a gravity sewer in (the Tri-W) location would have been a bad idea. A better project ensued."

Quick point on that last one:

If the Los Osos Wastewater Project Technical Advisory Committee "confirmed" that the Tri-W disaster was "a bad idea," does that mean that Bob Semonsen, unlike everyone else that was responsible for that "bad idea," has had a change of heart?

After all, Semonsen was a LOCSD Director, partly responsible for wasting seven years and $25 million on that "bad idea," AND he was a member of the county's Los Osos Wastewater Project Technical Advisory Committee, that "confirmed" that the project that Semonsen was partly responsible for developing was a "bad idea."

So, what's the deal there? Does Bob, unlike the Richdora's of the world, now admit that his project was an embarrassment? Apparently, the answer to that question is "yes."

I'd be interested in hearing his takes, nowadays, on that "bad idea."

Finally, would it have killed A. Christie to disclose that S. Christie is his sister, while he's raving about her leadership?

(And, speaking of Andrew's sister, I've mentioned this in the past... and I'm going to mention it again... again, she is looking awfully cute in that picture. Stylish! [I mean, c'mon, is it just me?] That's exactly what this story needs -- hotties.)

Sewertoons said...

ron seems to take every word Andrew Christie writes as FACT. Bad idea, as you miss entirely the blatant SPIN.

TheOpenEye said...

Of course Andrew is right about mostly everything and Sewertoons is wrong about just about everything, but she's just doing her crummy job for the County.

However right he is, Andrew's articulateness is exceeded only by his naivete. Andrew & the Sierras backed AB2701 and the blank-check 218 -- as did most of the community. What was he and they thinking ... if they were thinking at all?

Both AB2701 and the 218 were obviously political solutions aimed at imposing the will of the County -- and the most expensive project -- on Los Osos, yet the so-called leadership of the town, in its entirety, lay down and rolled over for both.

When Andrew et al supported AB2701 and the 218, everything that came after was already lost. As intelligent as he appears, as right as he is about the project and the County, he still made the same fatal mistake the rest of the community made -- stupidly, blindly putting their trust in corrupt public officials and allies whose sole aim was to screw Los Osos so badly that thousands would lose their homes ... while their buddies and cronies profit from the misery of their neighbors.

Schooled intelligence and good judgment don't necessarily go hand in hand. Andrew and the community should have had more insight into the obvious and acted on it, rather than supporting a county so corrupt that even the most unquestioning follower and dull thinker should have known the anguish that lie ahead.

Mike said...

My what strong words...and of course YOU have some sort of PROOF that that will stand up in a court of law... " corrupt public officials and allies whose sole aim was to screw Los Osos so badly that thousands would lose their homes ... while their buddies and cronies profit from the misery of their neighbors." I'm sure the public officials of San Luis Obispo are trimbling in fear of your words... You really should take some lessons from TW on how to actually expose corruption...

Yup, just sounds like more of the weak words of an immature, uneducated and inexperienced kid... without proof, you are just wetting your pants...best run off and have mommy warm you a glass of milk... LOL...!!!!!

FOGSWAMP said...

Contrary to Richard's self-serving doom and gloom prophesies, there is a silver lining in that construction costs are in fact down below the levels of 2004, according to the hard-hat commercial industry magazines, commentary and indexes.

One article I read stated that In 2006/2007 and even into 2008, the commercial construction industry was saddled with an ongoing escalation that sent shock waves through the industry, prompting them to pre-buy materials for their projects, even before the design using those materials were completed. All in an effort to get ahead of material cost escalation.

The industry then promoted a build it now, before the next price increase, headline.

That time has passed and as one writer put it the headline should now be "Commercial Projects -- Build it Now while Prices are Low".

Sewertoons said...

Let's see how many lawsuits keep us from doing just that. (That happened with the last project.) Good luck County!

Alon Perlman said...

Well, Fogs ol' chap; Yes and no.

The depressed economy is only marginally reducing project costs.

Along with the relative availability of concrete world wide-China is in trouble too.

The working population of Los Osos is paying more cost-of-living and earning less, and the fixed income folks are getting squeezed ( I could be wrong; Did universal health care go through while I wasn't paying attention?)

Government is bankrupt in general. Banks are in their own pass -along squeeze. Second mortgage?

The only person with true "Job security" in Los Osos is Al Barrow.

So on that basis; No-This is cutting into bone.

As for Los Osos specifics; The Delay is killing the Aquifer.

The Delay is Killing the CSD- The only real democratic representation that Los Osos has.

From a technical standpoint ( and don't yawl have me explain that) ; In order to get a cheaper sewer, the Sewer would had not only had to have been monetarily cheaper, it would have had to have been redesigned and permitted and construction started say, soon after about Sept 07. Why? Only because STEP did promise a shorter installation time.

And now, we come to Mike and Nimrod Jokes Jr.(ThePlausibleLie)

Mike, that "I'm OK, You're not OK" persona originated at least 10 years prior to 1984.

The current version of "The cry for help, that cannot be answered" is not about the SEWER. it is not about "Affordability". "Affordability" is just the excuse for the expression of anti-social behavior.

You, I, and RL are the only positive Father figures for that tangled mess of Self-victimization and self-destructive behavior.

Besides, he can't engage in "Andrew Bashing" on his own blog, under his own name, now, can he?

Word verification exple

TheOpenEye said...

Alon, you assume I'm someone I'm not. Is that because you assume you are someone who you're not? Or are you still a member of LOCAC in your dreams?

Churadogs said...

Richard sez:"Ann, etal, want to stop the process dead in it tracks"

This, of course, is totally incorrect, which is why I have such trouble believing anything Richard says. Like Mike, he makes stuff up and then proceeds as if it were true.

Alon sez:"In order to get a cheaper sewer, the Sewer would had not only had to have been monetarily cheaper, it would have had to have been redesigned and permitted and construction started say, soon after about Sept 07. Why? Only because STEP did promise a shorter installation time." and Richard sez:"I, etal, want to see the daily pollution and destruction of our water supply by building a WWTP IMMEDIATELY. TIME (not the type of technology used) is what is relentlessly forcing costs UP. "

Does this mean Richard was and is a four-square SUPORTER of the Ripley Plan and was out urging the pre-bankruptcy CSD to start building Ripley's STEP system IMMEDIATELY and even now is lobbying the BOS to stop dithering and sign immediate contracts with Ripley to start building his Total Water Reuse STEP Plan IMMEDIATELY??
No? Well, Jeeze. No wonder it's impossible to believe anything Richard sez.

M said...

If the sewer went online today, how long would it take to begin using the upper aquifer again?
Has Alon now aligned himself with Richard and Mike? Well, they certainly are role models.
Sincerely, M

Ron said...

Oh, for the love of Pete, can I get back to the REAL story in all of this... for just one second, please?

Andrew's sister!

You know who you can blame for my (understandable) infatuation with her? New Times reporter, Colin Rigley!

After all, it was Rigley, at this story, that was all, "I’m sitting opposite Sarah Christie in her living room," and "she sways her hips slightly in little dances," and, "She’s not wearing any shoes. She’s got on a pair of jeans," and, "Christie sings along to the music a bit, then starts laughing."

AND she's a country girl!

Then, there were all those "librarian-look" (guys, you know what I'm talkin' about ; -) pictures in New Times. And now, that pic in the Santa Lucian?!

Ya know, up until Rigley's story, all I read was:

Sarah Christie: This

and;

Sarah Christie: That

It took me (of course) to expose the REAL Sarah Christie story:

Sarah Christie: Kinda Hot

And, HAD I known the REAL story, I surely would have protested Supervisor Patterson's (MY Supervisor) decision to boot her off the Planning Commission MUCH more vigorously.

By the way:

"I’m sitting opposite Sarah Christie in her living room"?

Sweet assignment, eh, Colin?

Jeeze... had I landed more assignments like that, I'd stayed in the journalism field, despite the quote/unquote "pay."

Also, I've been meaning to post this: That book about those Mexican runners, Ann, DOES sound like a great read.

I'm curious, do they compete in marathons?

That'd be awesome!

The Tarahumara Indians vs. the Kenyans.

I wonder who'd win?

FOGSWAMP said...

Alon ..... My point is that the delay has brought us a project in a more intelligent location and the bursting financial bubble saved our butts. However, digging 45 miles or so of deep holes thru-out the basin and filling them in again, can and will only make matters worse.

The casual seeds of inflation have already been planted.

Yes, China (the owner of $1 trillion of US Treasury debt) needs "cement" and I think China in general is going down the same insane growth path we followed. The warning signs of a bubble are already there.

One thing almost everyone in Los Osos will probably agree on is that the project is unaffordable. There has to be a way to lighten the load on the hostages in the PZ area, other than sing this sad PZ song;

From this valley they say you are going,
We will miss your bright eyes and sweet smile,
For they say you are taking the sunshine,
That has brightened our pathway a while.

Chorus from "Red River Valley"

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Richard LeGros said...

Gee Ann,

Think whatever you wish about me as your opinion, like your Blog, is meaningless, and powerless to avoid the hard REALITY about to drop on you. Sitting around playing 'what-if' speculation games of what might of been, while completely avoiding WHAT ACTUALLY IS, will leave you unprepared when the reality of your situation finally sets in.

Do not think that you can (again) 'play the process' in an attempt to avoid your responsibility to clean up the tens of thousands of gallons of sewage you have personally contributed to the pollution of the States water. The APPROVAL PROCESS has been played itself through. Now, with a CDP in hand, it is only a matter of time before construction begins in earnest.



This time around the approval process cannot be undone. Why?

This time around in the Los Osos WWTP history, the County has been, for the first time, been issued a CDP by the CCC (which in the past held up County WWTP progress).

This time around ALL the governmental agencies (the CCC in particular) have rallied around the County WWTP Plan. No amount of mau-mauing of these agencies will alter their resolution to get a WWTP built in Los Osos.

This time around, those who fight the WWTP do not have the public's support, political acumen or power to change present policy by removing the elected decision-makers who support the WWTP.

This time the folks of Los Osos have already agreed to pay $125,000,000 in Bond Assessments to fund the project.

Finally, this time around, ALL those who have been fighting the construction of a WWTP cannot stop or undo the dictates of the law; which states that those that pollute the States Water must clean up the pollution they caused, and at their expense. Just to be clear, I include ALL groups that fought ALL past attempts to build a sewer for Los Osos; from the folks who stalled the County's first WWTP back in the 1970's, all the way to today.

The Razor said...

Based on what she posted, Ann hasn't attempted to "avoid the hard reality" of the situation. People, who understand what is currently happening with the wastewater project, understand the consequences. Needless to say, reminding everyone ad nauseum about a formerly recalled director's "reality" that Tri-W is "the most technologically superior project" from 2005 is simply sour grapes.

In Los Osos, many people are always going to speculate on the "what if" scenarios -- and that's well within their right to speculate openly -- but the reality is that the Los Osos wastewater project is going to shatter the record for being the most expensive wastewater treatment system in the history of the state of California at $181 million and counting.

Taxpayers Watch has stated that the majority of the Los Osos community (approx. 77%) are "immaterial," and those who have an opinion are not. What happens if the most predominant opinions in support of the County project and procedures expressed -- on this very blog, for instance -- have an accuracy rating of 15-20%? If the majority of the town without an opinion is "immaterial" and those supporting the project aren't being factual, then what does that say about the social dynamics of this town?

Now is the time for better leadership in Los Osos, regardless of what sewer comes before us.

M said...

Richard said,
review all the pretty options before Los Osos....all the while giving no care or resolution to the daily sewer spill into our aquifer (11 billion gallons since 1980), continued daily dumping of sewage into the bay (3.5 billion gallons since 1980), or the continued destruction of our water supply...
Just to be petty, wouldn't it be effluent spill? Daily dumping of sewage into the bay? Is our effluent being dumped into the bay or is it going into our water supply?
What did the guy that said "don't let the relative health of the bay fool you" mean? I believe he was from some Estuary group.
Funny, all of the governing bodies have allowed this to go on for almost 30 years and yet you think it is Ann and people like myself that are to blame.
FOGSWAMP ponders there must be ways to lighten the load on the PZ. Fortunately the are a multitude of immediate remedies that could be enacted to at least stave off the perceived issues. Unfortunately, that would require those that want a huge scale industrial project to aquiece to those fixes and possibly lose their project all together. Not going to happen apparently.
Sincerely, M

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

M says, "Fortunately the are a multitude of immediate remedies that could be enacted to at least stave off the perceived issues."

What are the immediate remedies and what are the perceived issues for you?

Sewertoons said...

M, there is PLENTY of blame to go around! That has been said many times on this blog as well as others!

M said...

Oh I don't know. A septic management system. Treating the known hot spots, pumping down the upper aquifer, or just go with the most expensive system possible and force people to leave because of the cost. These are things that could have happened 25 years ago. A fee could have begun to cover the cost of these applications with the intent of becoming the final sewer resolution. Remember it was 14 years after 8313 that the County was ready to finalize the project plans. I've never claimed to be an expert, but I do have an idea of common sense. That fee would have been collected for all of these years and remedies would have been instituted. No you can't go back in time. But you can take steps until the final resolution. You seem to be in Richard's camp. Do you agree with him coming on here and constantly berating and heckling us about the consequences of us not allowing him to proceed with Tri-W? Maybe you could influence him to ease off in the name of humanity. After all, his work is done isn't it?
Sincerely, M

Alon Perlman said...

Sincerely "M" I've never needed to align myself with anybody because I operate out of a discipline and a knowledge base that I developed, most unintentionally long before I knew there was a Los Osos.
So when I Challenged the Water Board many times for "Not Using science in their deliberations" I supplied scientifically valid evidence along with those assertions. Why should I not lay wrath to an "environmentalist" if I find that "Environmentalist" is not using science in their deliberations? and by the way I've stated, where it counts, that the scientific evidence for directly polluting the bay is minuscule. I originated much of that. Hardly consistent with RL on this string. RL has heard it.

hy should I repeat it? "M" you don't seem to be ego driven like some of the time bandits here.
You may not agree with my conclusions but the lumping and labeling, well that's kind of a little too easy isn't it? a form of character assassination by association, kinda weak, could mark you as a party line repetetoid. and frankly I don't think you are, but prove me wrong and fine, one less to worry about. so kindly address me directly.



I like your 11:28 post better , but even on this blog I stated " Is it going into the groundwater or into the Estuary, You can't have it both ways"

So maybe it is YOU that is aligning with me, scary huh?

Understand I have a body of work in the real world. Nothing anony-mouse about googling "waterboard" "perlman". Or try "Morro Bay"
Watched, participated, CSD CSD committees, and Agencies FIRSTHAND. read my response to Fogswamp. (not yet posted)

And I've just read your comment of 1 pm , BTW I was promoting "starting a Septic Tank Mgmt" to the post 2005 CSD, Linde did more in terms of promotion back then. but, I sure did my part, when did you land, Pilgrim?

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alon Perlman said...

Hi Fogswamp.

I am glad to have participated in a democratic action that resulted in a sewer location being changed. There were a large number of potentially foreseeable and unforeseen consequences. Had the right steps been taken at the right time and with the proper Attitude, (and with or without some other "characters") we may have had an alternative Sewer functioning right now.

And following that Recall/ temporary "B" event, I directly watched CSD stuff that DIDN'T happen. And that can't be layed solely at the feet of the Pre-recalled or other agencies. It is hard to get approvals. It is hard to find competant staff.

I then participated (Heavily) in moving the County sewer BACK from a location Infinately WORSE THAN TRI-W.

There were not going to be Collection System changes POST-PC. Sorry wishful thinkers, feel free to blame me, if it makes you feel better.

The S.Wan song has now been sung. That Opera is mostly over. Head to the exits.

Finito La Comedia. Enter Le Tragedia. (and since I just read Le Richard- "La vie continue!")

You know, If I had magic powers- benign Dictatorship Etc... I'd still install STEP or vacuum because I'm still concerned with leaks. And while it (STEP) was on the table I promoted it heavily, Vacuum later.


And by the way, as I stood close to Saraaa-ahh Chriiistyyyy (Ron are you paying attention?) and she leaned over sloooooowly and looked at me under those heavy aubern lashes and whispered "I know Alon, the only thing I'm concerned about, is leaky pipes 22 feet down".

Or it could had been 28 feet, my memory was wiped.

She had me at "I know".

And my heart had stopped beating at "pipes".


But back to your point. China's economy has slowed down.
If it picks up again, our costs will skyrocket.

The project as configured, is the only available solution.

Inaction at this point is killing the aquifer.

Thanks for the poem, some of my Tone is meant for "M", I hope you aren't offended, and he? gets it.



When the Sewer comes; I'm probably, eventually, going to have to leave Los Osos.

So if I was operating from pure self -interest. Sure, I'd be blocking the Sewer.
And I can. Make no mistake about the bone-fide article.

Now; for the real Los Osos, where I've spent a lot of my precious time NOT Blogging.

As for paths, who do you think has been clearing the paths of Sweet Springs of surface roots?

It takes an ax, not a keyboard.

And who do you think is going to fix the broken planks on the bridge over Sweet Springs pond, when I'm gone?

You? Perhaps, you come across as a concerned citizen, no specific association intended.

Surely not some Nimrod who still lives in a virtual reality world in his doting parent's new pineapple. No other "Wolf" criers. Not no other pleyah hatin, self obsessed, non participatin Nimrods, neither.

Alon Perlman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Razor said...

It's nice to know I have my own private stalker.

Don't you have anything better to do than to obsess over me?

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

Ann, who was going to finance Ripley's Step system? The CSD was bankrupt.

Churadogs said...

ron sez:"Also, I've been meaning to post this: That book about those Mexican runners, Ann, DOES sound like a great read.

I'm curious, do they compete in marathons?

That'd be awesome!"

The book details a Rocky Mountain ultra-marathon wherein the promoted brought up some Tarahumara runners and they won. but apparently the Tarahumara think Gringos are crazy and dangerous and they don't run for competition, they run for . . . well. . . fun and bragging rights & etc. Then the book ends with the greatest race that was never heard of wherein a handful of the best Gringo ultramarathoners went down tot he Copper Canyon for a race just for the challenge of the race -- no TV, no hype, just the run. You should read the book. It's really a fun read and fascinating.

Toonces sez:"Ann, who was going to finance Ripley's Step system? The CSD was bankrupt."

The point was Richard's ridiculous cry of doing something IMMEDIATELY! Well, he wanted immediate, he couldda demanded the BOS give the contract to Ripley right then and there, not fuss around with divving bids & etc. Cudda also demanded the CSD hold an assessment vote and hire Ripley years ago, and they'd IMMEDIATELY start work!! Ka-boom, IMMEDIATE! Which of course, was just ridiculous rhetoric on his part.

The Razon sez;"Based on what she posted, Ann hasn't attempted to "avoid the hard reality" of the situation."

Correct. One of the problems with Richard (and Mike, peas in a pod) is they don't read very carefully, misunderstand what's been written, then leap on their fake hobby horses and gallop off in the wrong direction hollering.

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron said...

Alon wrote:

"And by the way, as I stood close to Saraaa-ahh Chriiistyyyy (Ron are you paying attention?) and she leaned over sloooooowly and looked at me under those heavy aubern lashes and whispered "I know Alon, the only thing I'm concerned about, is leaky pipes 22 feet down". "

Oh, hell-yeah I'm paying attention!

Lucky you!

By the way, after she cleaned up in about a month, the two years and lotsa $ Sewer-mess that recently re-elected Supervisor Gibson made, he can be very thankful that my girl doesn't live in the 2nd District.

She'd have given him a beat-down at the ballot box.

Ann wrote:

"Then the book ends with the greatest race that was never heard of wherein a handful of the best Gringo ultramarathoners went down tot he Copper Canyon for a race just for the challenge of the race -- no TV, no hype, just the run."

That's great.

Sewertoons said...

Ann, Step wasn't going to work here! Richard knows that and so should you! Did you not read the reports? Did you not see the presentation at the Planning Commission? We'd still be in court over property right issues right now if Step was attempted! And did you ever REALLY think that the County would do eminent domain over this many properties? The County spent a lot of time on the Step issue so that everyone could see the progression toward the conclusion of why it was not going to work.

The Razor said...

Richard LeGros states that he's "indifferent to what [Ann and other bloggers] believe," but for the past month, every time someone has disagreed with him, it's, "Ann, you must accept REALITY," and that "reality" (in hard caps for emphasis) is that Tri-W/MBR is the best solution for Los Osos.

Reality pertains to the present, not the past. To state that we must accept "reality" by revisiting 2005 as a means of accepting the circumstances for the current project is perplexing -- extremely perplexing if not something else.

Richard and Toonatzky's rampant, totalitarian postings is a constant reminder to everyone that we need better leadership in Los Osos. We need to operate with higher standards, and to start, we need to supersede those who appeal to the lowest common denominator by rehashing antiquated, fact-deprived talking points.

Mike said...

...blah, blah, blah... go get an education, a job and some real world experience to go with that thesaurus... This blob has been reduced to meaningless blather anyway...no one of authority is even reading this thing, or ronnies or even the dull edge razor...

Richard is correct... and the sewer is coming...!!! Nothing in this blog has had any affect on the County's Plan... Get ready to pay... at least those of us who actually own real property in the PZ will be paying...

M said...

So I assume you own rental properties in the PZ?
Sincerely, M

Richard LeGros said...

Sorry folks...

I am not going to waste my time discussing LOWWTP history.

Neither am I going to waste my time discussing 'personalities' or 'motivations'; or respond to attacks upon myself or others.

Nor am I going to waste my time discussing the current soon-to-be- realized County WWTP; or the 'process' getting there. That issue has been resolved. Besides, by now you have a good idea of what is coming.

Additionally, I see no need to waste my time going over the LOCSD Bankruptcy, the upcoming arbitration, the September 1 Bankruptcy Plan, or the layout of a possible post-LOCSD political landscape. That issue will resolve itself within the next 12 months regardless of what we opine about it.

Nope, nothing of interest (CSD/LOWWTP-wise) left to discuss.

It has been entertaining blog-hob-knobbing with you fine folks. See ya around from time to time.

PS Mike: When you return from overseas, how about lunch?

Mike said...

...you keep missing the boat M... but keep guessing... it makes for fun reading and really (in the words of another blogger), it's none of your business... my personal life neither adds or subtracts from the decisions regarding the location and design of the Los Osos WWTF... You should have concentrated on the Plan that Schicker was supposedly producing... Sorry M, ya missed again...

Mike said...

...about 2 more weeks Richard... catch up with the fun stuff then....

M said...

Well Mike, someone with your exact same biography has posted a home address in Lincoln, Ca. That persons name is now listed in the phone book with an A.G. address. The same biography and the same ties to the sewer seem a little too coincidental to me.
Sincerely, M

Alon Perlman said...

Now now Ladies and Germs.
Let’s keep it Civil and to the point.
The previous set of blog comment postings had deteriorated into “Who’s the Anon.?”
A worthwhile expenditure only if one does not engage in “Post teasing”
Perhaps if we focus on Le Topics De Jour.
I’ve just ran down my dinner in the “Ralph’s Sea food Isle”, no deer, just fast fried breaded shrimp, so I’d like to bring it back to “SIERRA CLUB”.
Sub-heading “MARKET SHARE”.
And I’ve chosen to go outside the rather narrow topic of Los Osos Sewer.
Because, Sierra Club SLO should not only be about “Los Osos Sewer”.
Couple years ago I had a long conversation with Andrew Christie, as to where Sierra Club was headed. But, more on that later…

A short while ago I chanced upon an interesting Comment string in the Trib-concerning Sierra Club SLO. And since it has nothing to do with LOWWTP! And since people’s brains seem to melt and ooze out their ears the minute LOS OSOS SEWER is mentioned here-
-Take time out to wipe the ooze from your cheeks and continue;
-I’m choosing a NON- sewer example!.
So it also occurred to me;
Why not copy posts from comments section on one Blog and carry them over electronically and dissect them on another Blog?.

(I’ve copyrighted © this Idea of course, but for the remainder of this discussion, I’m suspending the Royalty $ fees)
So to frame the question-
.________________________________________________________________
[ What is the CURRENT Perception in this County regarding SIERRA CLUB? ]
.________________________________________________________________


In short; this unscientific sample answers; not so hot.
This is only one blog string, one narrow topic. But I hope Andrew is listening to that feedback.

The Trib. post will be added later, including the comment string. The Title is;
South coast boat ride criticized

I hope you read it all,
Fortunately; One Comment rises above the rest; 
It ☼ Brilliantly ☼ Synopsizes Every One Else’s Comments.

It doesn’t even BOTHER to relate to the ACTUAL article.
It is the Highest Form of the ART.

* It is a comment about comments *

Why even bother reading anything else.
Here it is- ♫ Ta Laa ♪


theboyfromcali wrote on 06/28/2010 05:00:07 PM:
"To slocal

a non sequitur is a logical fallacy where the conclusion does not follow from the premises.

Your being born here, your caring for the environment and your lack of financial investment do not validate the conclusion that you are able to make an "objective" analysis of the situation any more than Jaystation, the Harbor Commission, the EPA, or even I can.

While I think the changes you have made to your lifestyle are admirable, they do not in themselves justify your position; that it is ethical to discriminate against Wave Jammers for engaging in a legal activity which thousands of private citizens engage in on a daily basis on the coasts.

If you want to say we need to ban recreational boating entirely in order to save the environment, then by all means speak your mind. But this is clearly singling-out Wave Jammers to make an example of them to fulfill your own ideological agenda (and an ideological agenda can destroy a person's objectivity as fast if not significantly faster than a financial agenda)

Unless the higher authorities, who also have science (as well as professional scientists who actually DO have the right to claim authority on the subject matter) to back up what THEY say, decide that Wave Jammers are in violation, all you are doing is engaging in speculation, discrimination and proselytizing.

If you have science to back up your claims, then by all means post links to studies in peer scientific reviewed journals. Science can convince me, rhetoric can't”

Recommend

And The Crowd Went Wild

Alon Perlman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alon Perlman said...

Read more: http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2010/06/26/1194784/south-coast-boat-ride-criticized.html#ixzz0tWkMiR14
Now unfortunately this person has only posted This one post. Perhaps a Buddhist monk awakened from a decade of seclusion, came out, posted, went back in. Perhaps a visiting scholar from Europe passing through. Sure; detractors may say; “A soon to be banned evil genius, planning an alter ego for a quick get-away”. Such they dismissed the coming of the New Messiah.

I could never come up with something that evocative. And as for LOGIC, I took that in Junior College. That was over twenty five years of working in industry and over 250 University credits ago. All I got left is a Heightened sense of PATTERN RECOGNITION.
Heck the best I can remember is PLATO: ALL MEN HAVE BEARDS, CHRISTIE HAS A BEARD, THEREFORE; Δ CHRISTIE IS A MAN.
And
IT FOLLOWS THAT IF CHRISTIE HAS NO BEARD, CHRISTIE IS ARISTOTLE.
Or something close to that.
Anyway, my point is that we should get someone like THECHOLIKIKID to come over to this blog post area and raise the level of discourse.



And the Web is rich with more examples
Tip of the Iceberg to ya.

M Just say it
I'm betting 25 cents mike is richard and 50 cents mike is me
what are the odds? I may want to change my bet

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

I just sat down and read your first post on this thread and you said, "..did out of town fulfill their promises to you? No, they achieved losing the project altogether and causing a bankruptcy..."

Lynette, you twist the facts like Steve (SharkInlet).

The CSD made the decision to file for bankruptcy PROTECTION. What don't you understand about protection?

And the CSD didn't loose the project. The recalled CSD didn't have a Prop 218 vote and the State Water Board was NOT going to give out the 2nd installment of the SRF loan until there was a vote. That's all in writing and I'm SURE you've seen all of the conditions from the State Water Board. So, if they stopped the loan, who was going to pay for the project?

The Tri-W project by the recalled board was stopped due to their actions alone. Thank Richard, Gordon and Stan for the Tri-W project not happening. But it was for the best anyway. The plant is better where the County will put it.

Your spin and ignorance and dedication to the MWH monster project is incredible. You've been writing the same bull for years now (daily) and seek out every single blog site you can find!!... Why?

Does Lou have ties to MWH?

I know Janice Peters from Morro Bay has ties (brother is a sub contractor for MWH) and they'll pick MWH rather than Perc.

Oh, don't we live in a wonderful county?!!!!!

Sewertoons said...

Here is a tidbit about PERC:

http://www.santapaulatimes.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/21053/Council:_Ad_hoc_committee_to_study_disputed_$1.667_million_PERC_claim.html

"City Manager Jaime Fontes told the council last month he was told by PERC that the city owes them the money, although “the city does not have any record of receiving any of these requests.”

"“I’m bothered by this item,” said Councilman Bob Gonzales, who noted, “We had an agreement with PERC for a set amount of money” for plant construction. Such an arrangement of set pricing was often cited by several council members as a selling point during the at times controversial negotiations with PERC."

FOGSWAMP said...

Ann ...... I found the book Born To Run at Nobles, thanks. Darn it, hard copy only available until January 2011.

Taking it fishing for the beautiful, best in the world "Kamloops" rainbow Trout, to read by the campfire (with plenty of mosquito dope).

M said...

Okay. How about if I post (if Mike is acceptable to this) where I got my information from? Let everyone decide for themselves. If i'm wrong then Mike has nothing to worry about.
I have contributed to this community with good citizenship, helping friends and neighbors in need for 39 years now. I have suggested remedies for our water and sewer issue. I can't do much more than that. The fact that several posters on this site will not have to deal with the burden of the sewer yet try to push their own agenda on it is un-acceptable.
Sincerely, M

Churadogs said...

Richard sez:"I am indifferent to what you believe, what you do, or whether you stay or go."

No you're not. You're obsessed with this blog. Like a rat pushing a lever, Boing! Boing! Boing! You woundedly declare FAREWELL I'm never darkening your door again, Sniff-sniff. Then BOING! you're back, like a bad penny. You don't behave like that if you are "indifferent."

Mike sez:"This blob [sic] has been reduced to meaningless blather anyway...no one of authority is even reading this thing, or ronnies or even the dull edge razor..."

Uh, so why, like Richard, are you obsessively showing up to comment??? Like Richard, do you not have a life?

Toonces sez:"The County spent a lot of time on the Step issue so that everyone could see the progression toward the conclusion of why it was not going to work."

Uh, care to speculate what would have happened if the County Survey showed a 63% vote in favor of STEP? Still think the county would have said, Uh, No, we're going to ignore that vote? Also, the County must have viewed STEP as viable; why else would they have "spun" that Survey? You don't "spin" stuff you know has no chance and/or won't work. Plus, the TAC would have dumped STEP early on as being non-viable due to rights-of-way-issues. They didn't which meant they were either doing a good job or were failing miserably in evaluating and moving forward systems that were utterly without merit and/or had total fatal flaws in them. So, which was it, TAC?

Fogswamp sez:"Ann ...... I found the book Born To Run at Nobles, thanks. Darn it, hard copy only available until January 2011"

You will LOVE it! Very funny, well written and sooooo INTERESTING!

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Razor said...

The old Richard LeGros from 4:55 PM, July 12, 2010:

"Neither am I going to waste my time discussing 'personalities' or 'motivations'; or respond to attacks upon myself or others."

The new Richard LeGros from 8:59 AM, July 13, 2010:

"FYI: It is fascinating watching you oblivious fools buzzing around, and dining upon, the LOWWTP poop pile like a bunch of fat flies..."

It's easier to dish out, but harder to take.

Ann, there were many determining factors -- that the County had -- for removing STEP/STEG from the design-build process. According to the PowerPoint slides from April 7, 2009 (starts on pg. 20 of the slides), Public Works went on to state that gravity was the "environmentally superior project." Then they proceeded to list seven reasons, all of which were subsequently rebutted by Orenco Systems' Bill Cagle. After the rebuttal, Bruce Gibson -- hanging his coat on the smallest hook possible -- said repeatedly at office hours that the most compelling reason against pursuing STEP was the community survey, despite the biased questions found by the majority of his board.

Your speculation is valid, Ann, because the County would have found some other reason to not utilize project team resources for STEP. Like a good lawyer, the project team could make the argument to pursue their technologies and companies of under any circumstances and make their arguments appear to be definitive.

Alon Perlman said...

LePetite mal
and so inviting...

"That what we do to ourselves; for that, we cannot blame others"

The Gnat flies in
is first to feast
it's belly small
It's eyes like saucers

A mountain to it,
a pimple on the fallen beast.
it ravages never cease
it will never cease.

It belly full
yet it still hungry
Why ask why?
Look at mama papa fly

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TheOpenEye said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TheOpenEye said...

"When the Sewer comes; I'm probably, eventually, going to have to leave Los Osos."

This alone will help beautify Los Osos.

Mike said...

Isn't it fun to read this blog... same cries of outrage, same old guessing games... just like what used to happen in the old CSD meetings...

It's been a long day again, but I needed a laugh before heading to bed... I see "M" is still guessing... would it help to give you my initials...??? Try RMM... I never liked my given first name, so I have used my middle name since Jr Hi... Oh well, M will still be guessing when the street is dug up in front of his property... my house is already connected to the neighborhood collection system, but you already knew that...

Ok, time to call it a day even if it's only 8:30, I don't change time zones as easily as I used to... 'Nite All...

M said...

So is that an Ok Mike to let everyone know where I got my beliefs from as to your identity? Your house or your parents house is already connected to the neighborhood collection system?
Did you ever speak at the podium at the CSD meetings?
Sincerely, M

M said...

Again, does anyone know when we will be able to draw from the upper aquifer again after completion of the sewer system?
Sincerely, M

Mike Green said...

M, look to Santa Maria, they are allowed to treat at the wellhead.

Sewertoons said...

You don't get to treat at the wellhead if you are still polluting your drinking water by peeing and pooping into it. The RWQCB has put us in a PZ anyway.

M, I am not positive, but I have heard the figure "20 years" to clean out the upper aquifer water.

Sewertoons said...

Ann, Step is physically possible here in LO, the TAC was only evaluating THAT, not the actual feasibility of doing eminent domain on 4500 homes. That would fall to County Counsel to worry about, not the TAC - that was not their purview.

Churadogs said...

Toonces, the TAC was charged with actual feasible. They dumped a variety of plans along the way, all with "fatal flaws." If eminent domain were a fatal flaw it would have been dumped early on.(The reason Paavo never looked into all this is because he knew, in advance, that STEP would NOT be allowed. Why bother looking into feasibility of a system you have eliminated from day one? but forgot to tell folks that you had already eliminated it.) If STEP were not actually feasible it would have been dumped. Both STEP and gravity were feasible (see Dr. T's evaluation) and doable which made it critical that the community be given an honest choice to compare systems (pro and con) without spin. Then, if they wanted one or the other, there'd be a clean choice. As it stands, the folks who voted indicated that they want to pay $50 more a month to get gravity, so that's what they'll get. But, the RAZOR's comments are the "realpolitik" on this issue. Promise a great sounding Process, then "forget" the promise, spin, slant, "forget" to give complete and accurate data, then claim that The People Have Spoken, Ta-DA! then go do what you planned to do in the first place (Pace, Noel King). That's the Chinatown Way.

richard sez:"All I read from Ann, etal, is meaningless Blah, Blah, Blah.......

What a waste of time!"

Uh, so why are you here again? Commenting, again?

Richard LeGros said...

Just to let you know how silly you are.

I find it fasinating that the 'swarm', having been warned repeatedly of the folly of their behavior, now (unsuprisingly) find themselves in a quagmire of their own making. Even more fasinating is watching the 'swarm' continue to cling to their delusions in the false hope that reality will be undone.

Sewertoons said...

Ann, can you imagine the beating that the TAC would have taken if they had eliminated Step due to something that they had no expertise in? You would need to have had a legal opinion on that one, which no one could have given at that point but Jensen. The County, needing no more controversy than it already had on its hands, and knowing the loudness of the opposition to anything they might propose sewer-wise, was not going to announce, "…and oh by the way, if you want Step, we are going to eminent domain your property to do that."

A lot of the answers did unfold as the process went along and the crowning blow to Step, even though it was AFTER the survey, was the problem with the narrow streets down in Cuesta. That didn't really surface clearly until the Planning Commission. Tanks would have gone into the street there. Now imagine the consequences of a pumper truck blocking the way of an ambulance on the way to a 411 call on a heart attack! It would have been as absurd as that scene in "The Day of The Locust" where the girl laments that her dad dies as she was busy picking a zit and not noticing that he needed help! But a lot more tragic, as it would be REAL. The County could not leave itself vulnerable to a wrongful death suit due to poop needing pumping!

This town was horribly planned, if you can even call it that, and Step is more a victim of that than even eminent domain. Feasible yes - just like Tri-W was, but people just didn't WANT it. Believe what you like about Chinatown, we are getting gravity because that is what people want.

If I want an excavation for a sewer, I want it in the street, not in my yard, where with Step, the effective use of my yard is no longer mine. $50 a month more, if it comes to that, is worth it to me to keep my chunk of property. Aesthetically speaking, on these tiny lots, those two big PLASTIC tank covers do not invoke "curb appeal" should we want to sell.

Sewertoons said...

Ann, can you imagine the beating that the TAC would have taken if they had eliminated Step due to something that they had no expertise in? You would need to have had a legal opinion on that one, which no one could have given at that point but Jensen. The County, needing no more controversy than it already had on its hands, and knowing the loudness of the opposition to anything they might propose sewer-wise, was not going to announce, "…and oh by the way, if you want Step, we are going to eminent domain your property to do that."

A lot of the answers did unfold as the process went along and the crowning blow to Step, even though it was AFTER the survey, was the problem with the narrow streets down in Cuesta. That didn't really surface clearly until the Planning Commission. Tanks would have gone into the street there. Now imagine the consequences of a pumper truck blocking the way of an ambulance on the way to a 411 call on a heart attack! It would have been as absurd as that scene in "The Day of The Locust" where the girl laments that her dad dies as she was busy picking a zit and not noticing that he needed help! But a lot more tragic, as it would be REAL. The County could not leave itself vulnerable to a wrongful death suit due to poop needing pumping!

This town was horribly planned, if you can even call it that, and Step is more a victim of that than even eminent domain. Feasible yes - just like Tri-W was, but people just didn't WANT it. Believe what you like about Chinatown, we are getting gravity because that is what people want.

Sewertoons said...

If I want an excavation for that sewer, I want it in the street, not in my yard, where with Step, the effective use of my yard will no longer mine. $50 a month more, if it comes to that, is worth it to me to keep my chunk of property. Aesthetically speaking, on these tiny lots, those two big PLASTIC tank covers do not invoke "curb appeal" should we want to sell.

The Razor said...

It was within TAC's purview to discuss possibilities of eminent domain and inherent technology flaws. It's not a County Counsel issue because the feasibility of project implementation is at the sole discretion of Public Works and TAC. If the issue fell into the Counsel's jurisdiction, Jensen and his team did not do their due diligence in assessing potential legal issues with STEP prior to the 218 assessment.

Ann, let's enlarge the picture even more. Assuming that there were inherent "fatal flaws" with STEP from the very beginning, why would TAC or Public Works spend any of their resources to make that technology an integral part of the discussion and their promise to make that technology part of their CEQA co-equal analysis? Why would the 218 Engineer Assessment Report even include STEP as part of the assessment if there were so many problems with that technology?

The evidence is clear. These "fatal flaws" were desperate afterthoughts. Only when the people started to push is when the County created their gravity blockade. 2007 to early 2009, STEP was a viable solution. Then after April 2009, STEP became the worst solution for Los Osos.

And that's the Chinatown Way.

Sewertoons said...

Ann, your so-called "missing and accurate" data for Step - by NOT going to Design/Build is, in my opinion, making YOU mad because you needed more TIME to try to persuade the community that Step was the way to go. Just as holding the recall so late pushed just enough steam into the trashing of Tri-W. As Mike Green said on another blog, had the recall been held earlier, we would have gone ahead with Tri-W.

Behavior based marketing by the Step crowd just didn't get the amount of steam that you wanted to change public opinion. And all the time in the world may not have worked - just think of that very real possibility!

Sewertoons said...

Razor, you got it wrong. The TAC was not there to discuss legal issues. The Sub-Committees were "Environmental," "Financial" and "Engineering." I can't believe that with your "legal" background you would have for one minute condoned their taking on LEGAL issues! You are arguing the other side now just to blame!

The Orenco-Al-Ripley led, NOISY Step crowd was part of the same crowd that trashed Tri-W. Blocking Step from the beginning by claiming "fatal flaws" would have been PR disaster! No, there had to be a progression to show it WAS feasible - as it IS "feasible" -- there is no problem with the technology itself -- THAT had to be pointed out.

No, the problem is the LOCATION. A town with narrow streets and multiple 25 foot lots. Not enough room for tanks -- and you yourself could easily have been on a side, much like Steve Paige's lawsuit, against a "taking of private property without compensation," from the lots large enough to contain the Step tanks.

Sorry, you can't be so blind to NOT SEE what Ripley's back pedaling written submission at the latest Coastal Commission hearing -- actually MEANT! That most tanks would be kept, the yards would not be dug up (ameliorating the objection to yards being dug up) --- when a few years before he had stated that 95% of the tanks NEEDED replacement! A flip flop of major proportions to try to hang onto a job that was slipping away.

Alon Perlman said...

Arguing Just to argue? Not nice exposing someone's secret agenda toons.

M- There is some uppermost Aquifer use already.
The CSD Has some blending of Upper (above aquitard) groundwater and some Lower in at least one well.
\Similar for Golden state. Supposedly the Membranes that were intended to be used and are still pending, were to treat at well head.

As waters recede in the high groundwater areas the quality will become more complex. That means more variability between locations, and there may be cleaner and dirtier pockets.
It will take several rainy seasons probably before a measurable effect. And the 20 years toons mentions sounds about right or (25?) is the value given

Sewertoons said...

An interesting read:

http://www.laramieboomerang.com/articles/2010/07/14/news/doc4c3d4032d8742500930103.txt

M said...

Good work Toons. Keep after it. Turn over every rock to find something wrong with septic tanks. Keep looking for any little thing you can find about contractors other than MWH and gravity systems. That way we can rest assured knowing that MWH and gravity is absolutely the way for us to go.
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

M, if you want to have a romance with septic tanks, fine. I prefer to dispel the fantasy around their use here and look ahead at what is ACTUALLY going to be happening.

The gravity system is designed for the most part and MWH did that design, true. I however do not want to pay to have another gravity system designed just to take the name, "MWH" off of it.

No one has put in a bid on building anything and no one has been chosen to build anything. Here are the contenders -

Collection System: ARB, MWH, Sundt Construction

Treatment Facility: Auburn Construction, CDM, MWH

Why are you and others SO CERTAIN that MWH will win building these two components? Who is telling you this?

Churadogs said...

Toonces sez:"This town was horribly planned, if you can even call it that, and Step is more a victim of that than even eminent domain. Feasible yes - just like Tri-W was, but people just didn't WANT it. Believe what you like about Chinatown, we are getting gravity because that is what people want."

Like a lot of other commentors, I don't think you read what I actually write. Eminent domain was not a "fatal flaw." And tanks in the streets (according to Ripley) are also not a fatal flaw, which is why STEP made it past the TAC, which is what I said. The Process WAS "spun." Heck, even the BOS couldn't help notice and comment on that Survey. That's the realpolitik, which is (again) what I wrote. And I said, very clearly, that folks were willing to pay up to $50 more to get gravity, which is what they wanted and now they'll get what they wanted? Yet you carry on as if I was saying the exact opposit. Amazing. And on one thing, we certainly agree. This town was padly planned. Actually, not planned at all, just grew all higgedly piggedly, the County's Red Haired Stepchild.

toonces sez:"Ann, your so-called "missing and accurate" data for Step - by NOT going to Design/Build is, in my opinion, making YOU mad because you needed more TIME to try to persuade the community that Step was the way to go."

Ah, finally, proof positive that Toonces hasn't been reading what I've been writing from day one. From day one, what was my single most important mantra? Right, Chinese Menu CHOICE. From the county take over, what was my single mantra? CLEAN -- no thumbs on scale -- PROCESS leading to CHOICE. What do both of those mantras point to? Choice by the community, preferably a CLEAN choice. Personally, I loved the Ripley total water reuse plan and can see many benefits to a STEP system. Wrote a column on it. The folks who bothered to vote in the survey prefered Gravity. Sure, the Survey was "spun" but that's just SLO Chinatown. So, Toonces, let's review: My Mantra: CHOICE. Survey offered: Spun CHOICE, but CHOICE. Folks got to CHOOSE and will get what they wanted. Yet there's Toonces claiming I'm "mad", which means she hasn't been reading anything I've written lo! these many years and is still making stuff up.

richard sez:"I find it fasinating that the 'swarm', having been warned repeatedly of the folly of their behavior, now (unsuprisingly) find themselves in a quagmire of their own making. Even more fasinating is watching the 'swarm' continue to cling to their delusions in the false hope that reality will be undone"

Like much of what Richard makes up, this comment doesn't even make any sense. Yikes. Time to cut back on the martinis, maybe?

Churadogs said...

Toonces sez:"This town was horribly planned, if you can even call it that, and Step is more a victim of that than even eminent domain. Feasible yes - just like Tri-W was, but people just didn't WANT it. Believe what you like about Chinatown, we are getting gravity because that is what people want."

Like a lot of other commentors, I don't think you read what I actually write. Eminent domain was not a "fatal flaw." And tanks in the streets (according to Ripley) are also not a fatal flaw, which is why STEP made it past the TAC, which is what I said. The Process WAS "spun." Heck, even the BOS couldn't help notice and comment on that Survey. That's the realpolitik, which is (again) what I wrote. And I said, very clearly, that folks were willing to pay up to $50 more to get gravity, which is what they wanted and now they'll get what they wanted? Yet you carry on as if I was saying the exact opposit. Amazing. And on one thing, we certainly agree. This town was padly planned. Actually, not planned at all, just grew all higgedly piggedly, the County's Red Haired Stepchild.

toonces sez:"Ann, your so-called "missing and accurate" data for Step - by NOT going to Design/Build is, in my opinion, making YOU mad because you needed more TIME to try to persuade the community that Step was the way to go."

Ah, finally, proof positive that Toonces hasn't been reading what I've been writing from day one. From day one, what was my single most important mantra? Right, Chinese Menu CHOICE. From the county take over, what was my single mantra? CLEAN -- no thumbs on scale -- PROCESS leading to CHOICE. What do both of those mantras point to? Choice by the community, preferably a CLEAN choice. Personally, I loved the Ripley total water reuse plan and can see many benefits to a STEP system. Wrote a column on it. The folks who bothered to vote in the survey prefered Gravity. Sure, the Survey was "spun" but that's just SLO Chinatown. So, Toonces, let's review: My Mantra: CHOICE. Survey offered: Spun CHOICE, but CHOICE. Folks got to CHOOSE and will get what they wanted. Yet there's Toonces claiming I'm "mad", which means she hasn't been reading anything I've written lo! these many years and is still making stuff up.

richard sez:"I find it fasinating that the 'swarm', having been warned repeatedly of the folly of their behavior, now (unsuprisingly) find themselves in a quagmire of their own making. Even more fasinating is watching the 'swarm' continue to cling to their delusions in the false hope that reality will be undone"

Like much of what Richard makes up, this comment doesn't even make any sense. Yikes. Time to cut back on the martinis, maybe?

Alon Perlman said...

Hi CD Iv'e noticed double postings happened to me. It kicks you off , then as you refresh the page and repost the previous posting is there.. Or is it the double Martinis before 8 AM? actualy This has been a constant in posting for about a year, with the Double posting a new "feature" for about a month.

Alon Perlman said...

Sure ; and now it's working just as it should
Darned Gremlin-ghosts in the machine.

Richard LeGros said...

LOL LOL LOL LOL Ann,

Go ahead and hurl silly insults.
They mean nothing.

The Razor said...

Ann was clear the first time around.

When people mention the word "choice," it's not a euphemism for "anti-sewer," "no sewer" or STEP. It's a choice that people can make. When it came to the community survey, 34% of the opinionated choice made a choice for the 66% that didn't know they needed to make one; they didn't know the survey would ultimately be considered as the community's vote of confidence.

One of the reasons STEP made it past TAC because eminent domain was not -- and never was -- an issue with that technology. If it was, it would have been precluded from discussions all together. Also, eminent domain falls under the purview of the Environmental sub-committee (this is verified by Rob Miller). Who was the lawyer in that sub-committee -- who has a significant legal understanding of eminent domain issues -- that never said anything about eminent domain being a problem with STEP? Marshall Ochylski. If there were overarching legal issues involving that system, Ochylski would have been the first to raise the red flag.

One could argue that the community survey's questions were based on completely incorrect data. Remember that cost-savings question about gravity and STEP/STEG ($50 more for gravity)? The cost savings of STEP is misrepresented as demonstrated by Orenco Systems Bill Cagle in his May 28, 2010 letter to Chairman Mecham:

"The cost presented by WM Lyles was a Hybrid gravity/STEP system that utilized a gravity installation in areas where it was cost effective. If the system was all STEP, the capital cost would have been less."

If the capital costs for a STEP system were less, then that system would actually yield much more than $50 in cost savings. Public Works has based their STEP cost analysis on the W.M. Lyles STEP/gravity hybrid, which obviously cost more and provided fewer savings -- but the County's problem is that the Lyles team also proposed a complete STEP system to them. In conclusion, data for a pure STEP system was never accurately represented by Public Works and Opinion Studies.

Sewertoons said...

Razor, you appear to be dissing the community that 1. Didn't turn in a survey. 2. Chose "Neutral" or 3. Chose "Don't know." Maybe their CHOICE was that it didn't matter to them which system was chosen. Pity the survey didn't just say "don't care," as opposed to "neutral" or "don't know."

16% of respondents said "neutral" or "don't know." 15% of respondents preferred Step and 69% preferred gravity. Tough pill to swallow that the Step salesmen didn't make a better case for their product or that casting an opinion was so important for them in getting that Step job!

I disagree Razor. The County was trying to avoid taking Step off the table for as long as possible. They did not want to whip up the Step proponents - who were the same people as the anti-Tri-W proponents, because as we have found out, TRUE BELIEVERS can do an awful lot of persuasion when infuriated.

If you think one lone attorney is going to make an opinion on Eminent Domain in a committee, or make an opinion without enough facts that could put himself in hot water for canceling out a technology that they were supposed to be studying, you don't understand the profession OR where the County wanted to go with Step.

You seem to be arguing against yourself anyway, as you have, in the past, opined that the County was never going to look at anything but gravity anyway.

I guess it all depends on who you want to believe Razor. The words of a salesman desperate for a job, or in my opinion, an impartial group of County employees with no dog in the fight. I chose the County.

No Step proponent ever answers the challenge that Step puts on the homeowner - the costs that he/she alone will have to front out of pocket to pay for the electrical work or the yard restoration. Many trees (habitat) will be lost, never to be replaced, with Step. That one never gets a response either.

Capital costs are one thing - they can be lower payments over time. Homeowner costs rely on money in the bank or an empty credit card, which isn't likely for many right now.

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

Ann, Eminent Domain really wasn't part of the County's discussion. That was a blog discussion. Could the County DO Eminent Domain? Sure! Would they want to pay for the legal and political costs for doing so? NOT LIKELY!

Ripley would not be liable for a lawsuit should someone die because the emergency responder was unable to pass by on the road due to a pumper truck blocking it. He can say what he likes about tanks in the street - as long as for cost purposes he also adds that a concrete tank would be needed around the fiberglass tank, thereby upping the costs considerably. Funny that he mentioned none of that in his last plea before the Coastal Commission. All he talked about was lining the present septic tanks to keep the costs down!

Richard LeGros said...

b

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