Monday, August 09, 2010

And Now, A Comment From One In The Know

This email came in response to my previous posting of Ron Crawford’s latest “letter to the RWQCB.” It is posted with permission, but sans name, to avoid possible blowback, but I can vouch for its authorship and vouch that it’s someone very involved with the Hideous Sewer Wars. And the author is correct: The WMH breach of contract lawsuit really should have been persued – really. It is an absolute tragedy for the residents of Los Osos that what really happened will be buried and the cost for that “breach” will eaten by the residents. And had Roger Briggs and the RWQCB and SWB, with lots of help from Pandora & The Etcs, “Fine Them Out Of Existence!,” not lost their marbles, all of this misery for the Los Osos 45 and all the rest could have been avoided utterly and we could have been well on our way with the October Compromise & etc, to having the exact same sewer system that we’ll be getting now – without the wasted years  and wasted millions of dollars. Thus, Ron Crawford correct in understanding how government agencies can act without accurate information while the citizens pay the price for their screw ups.

“The recent posts forget one thing and it is a big thing. The project was not stopped by the Post Recall Board. The State did this by refusing to engage the new Board and withholding funds. All of this was in the claim against MWH and the State. It is very disturbing that the new Board dropped those claims as MWH dodged a big one. I do understand the cost to continue that fight would have been a huge continual drain on the CSD. This is exactly one of the huge faults of the structure of the appeals processes of both the regional and state boards. Appeals should go directly to the courts.

That said the one glaring issue that the TW [Tri-W] supporters forget is that the current project is EXACTLY what we agreed to under Blakeslee in October 2005. This is what is so disturbing. Also the experts that finally looked at TW, including the most recent county consultants, absolutely confirm that the post recall board was spot on with that October 2005 compromise. this is the glaring indictment of both the TW folks fraud and the malfeasance done by both MWH and the State. The county's current project exonerates the post recall board, ENTIRELY. Those that don't get that are deniers. They are incapable of admitting that the post recall board got it right all those years ago and that the project would have been completed now, yes now, had the Briggs (the [redacted]), the state and MWH lived up to their duties. As for Young he is simply an arrogant [redacted].


凱許倫 said...

Everyone fastens where there is gain.............................................................

Ron said...

The letter writer... wrote:

"The county's current project exonerates the post recall board, ENTIRELY."

Too damn funny.

Ol' Gordo and Pandora didn't quite think that whole "Let's get the Tri-W project to the County, and they'll build our embarrassment" thing all the way through, did they?

When Gordon was using his two, one-man "organizations" to trick officials into killing the "October Compromise" and push AB 2710 through, it never occurred to him that the county would end up showing his Tri-W project to be the complete, laughable disaster it always was... just like I've been reporting for the past six years (by the way, that's another thing that the County's process did -- proved my 2004 New Times cover story, Three Blocks Upwind of Downtown, 100-percent accurate, just like I knew it was when I first reported it... six years ago. [At times like this, I think of Steve Moss. I wish he was around to see this. I'd bet he'd love it as much as I do. We were SO right!])

Same with Pandora. When she was whining immediately after the recall, and trying desperately to get the project into the hands of the county, she didn't think it through that the county would end up spending $7 million showing her "project" to be the disaster it always was.

["... could the LOCSD transfer the sewer project to the county BEFORE the current CSD-3 leave office?"
-- Pandora Nash-Karner, September, 2005

Ahahahaha! Absolutely hilarious how that all worked out.]

By the way, I have a question for Sam Blakeslee: Why in the hell did Gordon Hensley have a say in the "October Compromise" at all?

Boy, that was horrible for everything... including the environment.

Way to go "CoastKeeper." Way to "Keep" the "Coast," Gordo.

I have another question: How does Gordon Hensley have a job as an "environmentalist?"

After he wasted six years and some $25 million on the Tri-W disaster, that makes no sense whatsoever.

Rick said...

Forget it, Ron. It's Chinatown.

With a few more years of hindsight, everyone will see this whole thing for what it was: a very typical sign of the times. In the 2000s, one of the only ways people made money other than hawking real estate was to capture the government and milk them for sweet contracts.

Sewertoons said...

Do you REALLY think that the SRF folks were going to continue to dole out money to a group with NO PLAN? ron claims this was what was agreed to - out of town. If so, then why did LISA say that there was no plan at the Water Board hearings?

I guess when you are trying to protect your friends you resort to squishing the truth off to one side. Yeah, I too would have liked to see this thing go to trial, but there was just no money to do so. This CSD is BROKE.

Why was there no bridge loan? Why didn't they hold a 218? ron, why don't YOU ask the tough questions?

Sewertoons said...

ron, let me help you - why don't you start your research with the resolution the Lisa board passed in early December to NOT ACCEPT the State's offer? That offer was to RESTART the collection system and PASS a 218? The State WAS engaged with the new board, and to claim otherwise is false.

BTW, the only people present in the oh-so-important hearings were the CSD, the State and Blakeslee - so my question to you would be -- was Blakeslee CHANNELING Gordon or Taxpayers' Watch maybe?

If this plan that the author suggests above was actually a PLAN and not some vague wish, why is it that Lisa said at the Water Board hearings that THERE WAS NO PLAN? Remember, she was under OATH to tell the TRUTH.

All of the ramblings above smack of Gail and her vendetta against MWH put forth by her poor, sad, USED, puppet Lisa.

The County's project is THE COUNTY's project, with the accompanying price tag of CDO's and CSD bankruptcy.

Nice attempt at SPIN, letter writer above, but it just doesn't line up with the facts.

M said...

Ron, please tell me thst's a sick joke that Gordon was involved in the compromise situation. Just as it was sick that Richard was part of the bankruptcy proceedings. Was Stan the only standup guy that chose to leave town?
Sincerely, M

M said...

To 凱許倫, thanks for leaving the translated version.
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

ron won't tell you M, because once he makes a mistake, or in this case, a sick joke, no matter how obviously he is wrong, and he is, he will not recant.

Mike Green said...

M, you do know that clicking on the blue dots of the asian characters sends you to a soft porn site.
Just sayin.
Google has interpreter sites, not to hard to copy and paste .

M said...

Thanks for the heads up Mike. I did not know that. Luckily I only copied and pasted to my post.
Sincerely, M

Alon Perlman said...

凱許倫 said...
"Everyone fastens where there is gain"
Once again 凱許倫 succinctly hit the nail on the head.
The 45 were used twice; Once by the State, (some of the younger staff were horrified, Briggs and Young carried on).
With the collapsed strategy of the Post recall CSD they inadvertantly became the victims of the shadow government.
And they are being used today.
Fastend on, that is.
In the know indeed.

Word verification; patinted
As in; The patinted methods of diversion, finger pointing and distraction.

Churadogs said...

Alon sez:"The 45 were used twice; Once by the State, (some of the younger staff were horrified, Briggs and Young carried on)."

Briggs and Young carried on, while the other Board members turned away because they didn't care, didn't know and, most important, DIDN'T CARE TO KNOW OR BOTHER TO FIND OUT, thereby abrogating their duties and responsibilities as a regulatory board member. Complicit in this travesty, they are all disgrace and have harmed citizens and tainted the whole RWQCB system, which their actions have illustrated exactly why it truly needs a complete overhaul.

Alon Perlman said...

True, I fully expected heads to roll, on both sides-staff and appointees.
The "Younger staff" is from personal communications a couple years ago. It is also clear to me that though acting on behalf of the state, Reed Sato (Sacramento Waterboard lead lawyer)wasn't thrilled at the predicament he was put in. Still, he did his job like a good little soldier.
I vas chest following orders

Bev. De Witt-Moylan said...

Alon says, "Reed Sato (Sacramento Waterboard lead lawyer)wasn't thrilled at the predicament he was put in. Still, he did his job like a good little soldier.
I vas chest following orders"

Anyone who believes Mr. Sato had a problem with his position can watch the video of his sadistic grilling of Mr. Wilkerson at the CDO hearing of January 28, 2007, as well as his demeanor throughout the proceeding. They can then reference Mr. Sato's assertion at the May 10, 2007, meeting that a $30/day fine would be insufficient to motivate us to cease discharging while he argued the case for much higher fines.

"Younger staff" were as eager to participate and observe as any others. The video recording of that same hearing shows Matt Thompson's failure to interrupt Mr. Sato to say that indeed, water board staff HAD told Mr. Wilkerson that he would "have to vacate the premises." Mr. Thompson and everyone else on that staff who knew the truth remained silent and allowed Mr. Sato to break down Mr. Wilkerson's experience into a mere misperception. It took Bill Moylan, a defendant, to force Mr. Thompson to admit the truth under cross examination that he himself had made the statement.

The demeanor of even the youngest staff in the audience gave no indication that they noticed anything disturbing.

In over four and a half years I have had no experience with "horrified" water board members or staff of any ilk, younger or older.

Sewertoons said...

Bev, I am sorry for the pain that you and Bill - and all the others - went through over this. I think that we all should have gotten CDOs, not just the 45. That sort of discrimination was just plain wrong.

Alon Perlman said...

Well Bev. I will definitely downgrade “Horrified” to “Uncomfortable”. But I was not talking about stuff on videotape. As for the visual record on and off the record, Matt T seemed to be a “Briggs in the making” When he was not visibly angry he seemed to relish the control, and was clearly full of himself. I had a little run in with him when he was testifying in favor of continuing the Morro Bay Cayucos Waiver-Using Bull-poop science with Colored Powerpoints.
Sato may have transferred his anger to Mr. Wilkerson, I had a brief encounter with him on break which I interpreted as him not wanting to be there.

Anonymous said...

Learning makes life sweet.......................................................................

Sewertoons said...

No wonder we are having such a rough time in Los Osos…

Churadogs said...

What you had in Los Osos is a corrupt regulatory system that had decided that facts didn't matter, had pre-determined whatever outcome they wished, a corrupt Board and staff that worsened an already corrupted process, rewarded lying, perverted anything like "justice," or "fairness," made a travesty of their office, and harmed citizens -- it was a perfect example of a corrupted government -- Chinatown. And it went all the way to the top -- the Governator, the Attorney General. Everyone turned away from the killing, Not Our Concern. Shrug. And Toonces now says that everyone should have gotten CDO's? Did she stand with the Los Osos 45 at the time? No. Who, in this community, did? Damned few. Gee, Wonder why. That's the way Chinatown operates: Apathy in a neck and neck race with fear and corruption and self-serving self-interest followed by bland statements of regret and now it's now time to move on. Feh.

Ron said...


'toons wrote here:

"Bev, I am sorry for the pain that you and Bill - and all the others - went through over this."


And 'toons wrote on my blog:

"As long as the County makes progress, the CDOers are fine."

So, which one is it, 'toons?

Are the CDOers in "pain," or are they "fine?"

('toons, do you want people to hate you? If so, great job!)

Ann wrote:

"What you had in Los Osos is a corrupt regulatory system that had decided that facts didn't matter, had pre-determined whatever outcome they wished, a corrupt Board and staff that worsened an already corrupted process, rewarded lying, perverted anything like "justice," or "fairness," made a travesty of their office, and harmed citizens -- it was a perfect example of a corrupted government -- Chinatown"

ALL of that stemmed from Pandora's "behavior based marketing."

Once the State agencies figured out that they'd been lied to by the LOCSD for six years (thank you very much), they were stuck.

They COULDN'T, after years and million$ wasted, all of a sudden say, "Whooops! Wow, we really should have verified that Tri-W project BS ourselves."

So, now, they CAN'T admit they screwed up. The exact same scenario exists with the local media. The BIG difference is, if the State were to admit they screwed up, they'd get sued... so they CAN'T.

Ann also wrote:

"Everyone turned away from the killing, Not Our Concern. Shrug."

If only the CDOers were "Annie the Dog," THEN people, and elected officials, would care.

(Although, Annie is an Aussie, so, I can understand the outcry.)

Watershed Mark said...

USDA funding announcement. Unless there's a follow up of funding, Los Osos is NOT in the list of 34 recipients for this year. Good job John Diodatti, Paavo, & Bruce.

United States Department of Agriculture
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You are here: Home / Newsroom / Latest Releases / Release No. 0393.10
News Release
Release No. 0393.10
Dane Henshall (202) 260-0996

Printable version
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USDA Announces Recovery Act Funding To Improve Water System Infrastructure, Health and Sanitation in Rural Communities

HALIFAX, Va. – Aug. 5, 2010 — Agriculture Deputy Secretary Kathleen Merrigan today announced funding for 34 projects to protect public health and the environment by improving water quality and public sanitation services in 24 states. Merrigan made the announcement this morning at the Halifax County Courthouse where she highlighted the environmental, health and economic benefits the Recovery Act funding will provide to the Maple Avenue Wastewater Treatment Plant and the local community.

"The Obama Administration is committed to investing in infrastructure to improve the efficiency and availability of water in rural America. Rural areas suffer from multiple problems associated with their water infrastructure," Merrigan said, "Economic assistance to rural communities for investments in water availability is especially valuable, given the borrowing constraints that small or poor communities may face. These Recovery Act investments in water and wastewater infrastructure will create construction jobs, help deliver safe drinking water and protect the environment throughout rural America."

The Halifax County Service Authority in Halifax County, Va., has been selected to receive a $5 million Recovery Act loan and a $10.4 million grant utilizing water and environmental program funding. The funding will be used to expand the capacity of the wastewater treatment plant to meet the regionalization effort being undertaken by the Authority. In addition, the project will correct inadequacies and health hazards to meet standards of the Department of Environmental Quality and increase treatment capacity. The sewer system serves 3,000 residential homes and 664 businesses.

The projects announced today will improve infrastructure across rural America. For instance, the Village of Crawford, Nebraska has been selected to receive a $3.6 million loan and $1 million grant to improve a 74 year old wastewater disposal system. This funding will allow the Village to meet the established timeline for state environmental compliance

USDA Rural Development today is providing $157.3 million for 34 water and wastewater infrastructure projects in local communities through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) and $45.6 million through other USDA Rural Development Water and Environmental Program funding. To date, USDA has announced $2.9 billion in Recovery Act funds for 788 water and environmental projects. The Recovery Act was signed into law by President Obama one year ago.

The Water and Environmental Program provides loans and grants to ensure that the necessary investments are made in water and wastewater infrastructure to deliver safe drinking water and protect the environment in rural areas.

Funding of individual recipients is contingent upon their meeting the terms of the loan or grant agreement. Below is a complete list of award recipients by state:

Watershed Mark said...

Looks like that money that went to the lobbist didn't prove Los Osos Rural enough. I wonder if Diodatti gets a raise for his work and direction to keep trying at all costs.

Watershed Mark said...

I posted the full text of the announcement over on SewerWatch.

Time is telling us that Ron and Ann are correct, whether you aknowledge it or not. Doesn't reality bite and hard sometimes Sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette?

Ron said...

Upon further review...

I wrote:

"If only the CDOers were "Annie the Dog," THEN people, and elected officials, would care."

Now that I think about it, after reading this:

"Hamm said Anderson and the county Board of Supervisors have received a tremendous amount of heat since Hogue’s plight was described in a column in The Tribune on Sunday and picked up this week by local radio talk show host Dave Congalton."

... in that "Annie the Dog" story, I shoulda said:

If only the CDOers were "Annie the Dog," then Pandora's "tools," Dave Congalton, and the Trib, would care, THEN people, and elected officials, would care.

So true.

When I wrote, above:

"The exact same scenario exists with the local media. "

That's exactly what I was talking about.

Is the Trib, today, after writing three editorials in 2005, just before the recall election, all in support of the Tri-W disaster, NOW going to say, ""Whooops! Wow, we really should have verified that Tri-W project BS ourselves."

Of course not.


As I showed in "She Is Los Osos," he's been in Pandora's "tool" box, well, forever.

There's your "perfect storm" -- These days, neither the State (and SLO County government, for that matter) OR the local media can admit they screwed up by trusting Nash-Karner for six years.

She wins.

That's why she can now run the same SWA Group scam at the SLO Botanical Garden, that she (and her husband) ran in Los Osos, starting in 1998.

Who's going to say anything? Her "tools" in the local media?

I don't think so.

Yep... a "perfect storm."

(Oh, that reminds me: Barbara Wolcott? "Tool.")

[Interesting stuff, Mark]

Sewertoons said...

Ann, I think that to protest CDOs was foolish. I mean, duh, what did everyone think would happen? The Water Board says that there will be severe consequences to stopping the project, the project stops and voilà - severe consequences ensue. We all are at fault for Measure B and stopping the project. So we should ALL have been issued CDOs. CDOs to only 45 homes was discriminatory.

I just see a bigger issue of Measure B being on the ballot at all. It has been ruled invalid by two judges - or was it invalid in 3 separate rulings? - yet here we are, ruined by an 11th hour citizens' initiative, an invalid one, which stops a project resulting in disaster raining down on Los Osos.

ron talks about "behavior based marketing" - well, that is exactly what we got - an hysteria chef (you know who) whipping up a dish (Measure B), served by chunky waitresses (you can guess) on a poisoned platter.

Behavior based marketing, what --Measure B, you say? The wastewater project was YEARS in the making. The majority supported whatever it was at the time -- for years. Then, to stop a project that SOME didn't like, a campaign was mounted to stop Tri-W - just like had been done with the County's old project. The difference between the two stoppages and spin - which is glaring - was that there WAS a plan for a different wastewater project than the County's with the Solutions Group - whereas the Lisa board - even though TTF, CCLO and CASE, were filing lawsuits for years AGAINST Tri-W - they had no PLAN as to what was going to replace it. Remember 2006 where the Lisa board started interviewing Pio Lombardo and Ripley and some other, forgotten firm? Even the technology wasn't picked out!

Funny how ron isn't interested in the whole story.

Watershed Mark said...

It's funny when "folk's can't see the forrest because they keep staring at the same old tree..

Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne

Watershed Mark said...

Then there is this:

The total population of the Hualapai Tribe is 1,532 and the median age is 23.6 (1990 U.S. Census). Tribal, public school, state and federal governmental services provide the bulk of current full-time employment.


* Hualapai West Pipeline Project: $2,000,000 loan (ARRA) $2,000,000 grant (ARRA); and $9,307,209 grant. The funding will be used for water system improvements.

The Administration authorized nothing for California and Los Fogos. Doncha think the light which is being shown upon the machinations being done to your little rural community has something to do with it being excluded from the list of project which floated to the top for grants and loans? Things are getting tougher all over it seems, even in “lobby land” and the people just keep getting soaked.

$11,307,209 grant spread over 1,532 people is $7,380.64 for every man, woman and child. Compare that with your Congresswoman’s 35M for 15,000 men, women and children @ 2,333. Wait you Congresswoman and all of the County’s men and lobbyists delivered NOTHING.

As noted in nearly every update I have watched those Diodatti USDA Funds were always included as part of the project equation. Mis-promising by an unelected government employee or misrepresentation, with elected officials complicity?… I think interrogatories may in order should the county actually decide to “take” the project.

I must say that Los Osos Wastewater is the gift that just keeps on giving in a very strange way.

Notice not one penny for wastewater in AZ or California?

Watershed Mark said...

I think it may be "Los Fogosos"

Sewertoons said...

ron, don't act like such a dope. That you can't get the difference in meanings in each context is just silly, you are smarter than that. Don't sacrifice your smarts to be a smart a$$ instead.

Legally, as long as the County is chugging along, the Water Board says fine - get it done when you can, no problems for the CDOers.

Of course some - but not all - of the CDOers are in pain - they were incited by the PZLDF group into a panic over this.

Watershed Mark said...


Richard LeGros said...


The County's USDA loan application is still being processed.

The County's request is currently being reviewed by the U.S. House of Representatives Grant Committee.

TheOpenEye said...


Your comment from "One in the Know" is riddled with opinion and inaccuracies intended to pass as fact.

For example: “The recent posts forget one thing and it is a big thing. The project was not stopped by the Post Recall Board. The State did this by refusing to engage the new Board and withholding funds."

Fact: The State did not withhold funds out of any refusal to engage the Board. Realizing the error of its ways and seeing a chance for a do-over, the State called for a Prop 218 vote before it would lend any more SRF funds, as it should have.


"... one glaring issue that the TW [Tri-W] supporters forget is that the current project is EXACTLY what we agreed to under Blakeslee in October 2005. This is what is so disturbing."

What is more disturbing -- to those in the know -- is that the loan was site-specific and could not be transferred to another site. That's a new loan app. So if the post recall board wanted to continue the loan and then move the project (without a 218 mind you), the site-specific loan would only allow them to continue the Tri-W project! What were they thinking? More to the point, who was doing their thinking for them?

Most disturbing, though, is that the post recall board voted in closed session NOT to support a 218 vote -- even though some ran for office on a platform that included the "I Want My 218 Vote!"

You were wise not to include the name of the author of "One in the Know" because they were obviously integral and complicit in exercising bad judgment, spreading false information through the community, and willingly betraying their constituents.

Sadly, revising history is a thriving cottage history in LO practiced fervently by both sides without any regard whatsoever for the truth. It continues unabated to this day, while the community suffers in silence.

M said...

Richard, i'm just curious, where do you get your information from? Why do you still receive or search out information pertaining to the sewer? One would think that since you were recalled from office and not living in the prohibition zone so have nothing to do with the sewer that you would just move on with your life. Are you still involved in the sewer in some capacity?
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

M, on that same note, you might ask ron, the Razor and Watershed Mark why they post. They do not live here OR own property here as far as I can tell.

As for Richard, he lives in Los Osos. The water supply, inextricably connected to the sewer, IS his business, as it is EVERY person who lives in Los Osos.

I for one, do not want to see Richard go away.

Sewertoons said...

TheOpenEye, the State may have wanted to give the community one more chance to consider the error of its ways in stopping the project. Too bad that the Lisa board did not give the community the chance to do so.

You bring up a very good point about some of the 3 newly elected to the board. Their positive position on voting a 218. And then, no 218. I'd like an explanation.

Alon Perlman said...

M. Speculating as to the identity of Anonymous Bloggers is a no net sum gain activity.
O. E. is O. E. not L. R.
InTheKnow on the other hand, should had self identified as OnceInTheMix.
And though Open Eye has attacked me personally here and elsewhere, Truth be known, I find nothing incorrect in his statements, of 3:34 PM, August 12, 2010. With the caveat that the last paragraph is a truth dripping with irony.
Unless I misunderstood and you are referring to the “anonymous poster” who posted as Richard LeGros 2:45 PM, August 12, 2010
And unless you have information that the loan is NOT still being processed
Or that The County's request is NOT currently being reviewed by the U.S. House of Representatives Grant Committee.
I personally do not know, and won’t bother to check, but it sounds correct.
The outcome of the sewer is of interest to all Los Ossans.
There may be something wrong with someone not living in the P.Z., trying to influence the outcome surreptitiously.
The outcome of the sewer is of interest to all Los Ossans.
There may be something wrong with someone not living in the P.Z., trying to influence the outcome surreptitiously.

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette asks silly questions like, "...Do you REALLY think that the SRF folks were going to continue to dole out money to a group with NO PLAN?"

Twisting history. That's Lynette's motto.

The SFR folks stopped paying the recalled board therefore the Tri-W had to stop and the RWQCB can not fine and/or punish the Lisa/Julie board for stopping anything when the STATE STOPPED THE PROJECT.

Why don't you acknowledge that Lynette?

...and M asks about Richard...well M, I do think Richard calls Sam at home. And after all, the County's Gail Wilcox told Sam Blakeslee what to write in the bill anyway. Gail and the County's attorneys.

And, I have to say that according to Rob Miller there were many different systems that would have worked (both the recalled board and the County DID NOT have to select the most expensive) Why not use current, green technology? Cars run on waste for goodness sakes.

Sewertoons said...

GetRealOsos, the Lisa board made the contractors stop working. You seem to forget about the part where the State was to be ASKED FOR PERMISSION if there was to be work stoppage. That did not happen.

The Lisa board did not do anything the State asked to get the project going again. They would need to have done a 218 to get money to design a new plant and to buy new property, etc. Instead, they instigated lawsuits spending money that they did not have.

The result is a further impaired water supply, bankruptcy and more stress.

TheOpenEye said...

I live in LO, but I don't care who lives in LO and who doesn't. I don't know who all of you are, the size of your house or which side of the street you live on. It's not an issue when it comes to helping the community. Anyone who frames it as an issue is just trying to marginalize those with different views. Who cares why.

Who lives where is a hollow, self-serving political question compared to the real and urgent question of who will be able to afford to live anywhere in LO during and after -- and how can we prevent mass exodus. That's the real question, in case anyone actually cares.

If you live in the Alps and have a suggestion, we're open.

"Someone not living in the P.Z., trying to influence the outcome surreptitiously" sounds like wishful thinking to me, in that no one inside the P.Z. can seem to influence the outcome of the project and it may be that the only chance for moderation will come from outside the P.Z. -- or nowhere at all.

P.S. Don't attack and you won't be attacked. Duh!

Sewertoons said...

I'd agree with you TOE, if those out-of-town names that I mentioned had anything helpful, practical or not self serving to say.

I agree. If there are helpful suggestions, let them comes from anywhere. As long as the suggestion's author realizes that the project has been defined, the County is in charge of it and many citizens are just plain sick of fighting.

Watershed Mark said...

Here's a thought: WE have a government that we cannot afford.

M said...

I assume that someone posting as Richard Legros is Richard Legros or else the real Richard Legros would straighten that out. Sewertoons sure thinks it is Richard Legros. My point of not living in the PZ i'll admit is irrelevant. My point was that he was recalled because we didn't want him making decisions about our sewer any longer. Or at least that is what I thought. With the information he delivers it has the appearance of coming from sources behind the scenes and to me that has the appearance of him being involved more than just an average citizen concerned about water quality. I may just be paranoid, but who wouldn't be if one like me has lived here through this whole debacle. The Open Eye made a salient point though in that nobody actually residing in the PZ will ever have influence in the outcome.
Alon, I have figured out the identity of one of the posters here. We haven't heard from him in awhile. I could care less about an identity someone uses here, but when an anonymous issues threats and obscene insults and I figure out who they are, I feel smart. Silly, but there it is. Maybe that poster will think twice about abusing this forum in that manner in the future. You can say all you want that it is just a guess, but I know i'm right and that's all that matters.
Sincerely, M

Watershed Mark said...

If a so called newspaper man who lives in the PZ "Sherroded", under or misreported what took place during the sewer saga, he would have had an effect on the outcome, just as Ron has had an effect on the outcome.

The county is waaaay behind schedule as they under reviewed during the "Review of Alternatives" sham.

That is another part of the "story" that just won't go away...

Sewertoons said...

Yeah, it WOULD go away if "reporters" and "salesmen" thinking that they had a chance at changing the outcome (for their own benefit I might add), would just leave us alone.

Watershed Mark said...

The county is waaaay behind schedule as they over spent and under reviewed during the "Review of Alternatives" sham.

There, that's better donchya think?

Alon Perlman said...

M. I don’t Know who you are and don’t care, but haven’t found anything you’ve said to be outside of a possibly frustrated but decent person’s conduct. In other words, You haven’t abused your anonymity. RL may or may not be Mike, again I don’t care. As RL he has provided salient information many times. Mike was rude at times but even though obscene (though not to me, in recent memory), he kept it on the Blog.

I know who Open eye is, and don’t feel smart due to that knowledge, and it is not Legros (and apparently Watershed Mark knows also.)
Your comment came right after Open Eye’s, so I assumed that you thought OE is RL, hence I wrote what I wrote. And not being sure, I added the “Anonymous poster” part. We all know Richard is posting as Richard given the same logic you specified.
I’ll admit to being frustrated by the implication that if OE WAS Perceived as RL. His Salient points about the original subject matter would be diverted. While I was typing, Toon’s responded regarding the relevance of non PZ Los Ossans. The latter part of my post happens to duplicate that reasoning. Had I checked before posting, I would had removed that part as redundant.

The outcome of the processes of the Agriculture department‘s loan is ongoing but uncertain. There is an indirect but real impact, outside the PZ.

As for CDO’s, they can not affect non-PZ Home owners.
As I note earlier; the Waterboard is not the only entity that USED the CDO’s.
And they are being used now.

So let’s cut to the chase; Is there anyone here who doesn’t think InTheKnow is similar in writing to Gail M., or a close associate?

Sewertoons said...

No! Who else could have such a spin as this?

M said...

Wow. This went a lot further than I intended. I just asked Richard a few simple questions. I would be frustrated if he was still involved somehow in the sewer.
Of course I wonder who anonymous posters are. Doesn't everybody? Not to the point of trying to find out who they are though. I just stumbled across Mike's identity. Everyone knows when you put something on the internet it stays there.
I'm going to make an effort to avoid posting here unless I can add something positive. Or until Toons or Richard pi**es me off again.
Sincerely, M

Churadogs said...

Toonces said,"the Lisa board made the contractors stop working."

You forgot the part in the contract wherein there was a 90-day stand-down clause. So, with the recall, work didn't "stop" in the usual "breach of contract-type 'stopping." It was initially on legal stand down.

Mike said...

Sorry M... but you remain in the dark... I do know Gordon Hensley's family, but I'm not one of them... Obviously you have become so obsessed with being right that you have blinded yourself...about this and many other subjects... How about YOU announceing just who you are if you are so pure and innocent...!!!!

Sewertoons said...

Ann, can you explain why there was no bridge loan and no 218? If the Lisa Board was OK with continuing to put pipes in the street - they were merely "standing down" for the moment -- they had agreed to THAT part of the Blakeslee Compromise -- why didn't they do the rest?

Watershed Mark said...

Keith McCullough: US Economy Near Point of No Return
Kotlikoff: US is Broke, Let's Face It

…And you think the Congress, the same folks who are trying to break “us” will be continuing to issue grants?

franc4 said...

I can't believe it!!!!!!
I've been gone for quite a while, and nothing has changed,ie Mike sez:
" Obviously you have become so obsessed with being right that you have blinded yourself...about this and many other subjects".
...he's still accusing other of EXACTLY what he is guilty of!!!!
...and oh yes, 'Toons still hates Lisa and that's what she is all about....just hating Lisa. How shallow everything else she writes is since that's all that keeps her going.....HATERED, since she failed in her attempt for a seat on the CSD....thank God!!!!!Grow up lady!!!!!Richard and you are from the same mold. Neither of you REALLY care about anything but your damaged pride....admit it, already, even!

Churadogs said...

Toonces sez:"Ann, can you explain why there was no bridge loan and no 218?"

This is EXACTLY why I want(ed) the breach of conttract lawsuit to continue. It's really important for this community to know, under oath, under penalty of perjury, with discovery, subpoena power, etc exactly what went down and when and by whom. Which is EXACTLY why the RWQCB and the SWB and others don't want that lawsuit to go forward and why it's important to kill and bury this town. Dead towns don't tell tales. Ron Crawford might, but by then it'll be too late for anything resembling "justice."

Sewertoons said...

franc4, perhaps you do not know the difference between hating the person and hating their actions. I thought that you had professed Christian principles at one point and understood that difference. Or perhaps you do and are only interested in character assassination.

I do not hate Lisa. I hate the grief and pain that she and Julie, as elected officials, have brought down on this community. I find the hubris of "they won't fine us and we won't lose the loan" as egocentric fantasies built on no understanding of how government and regulatory agencies work. I find acting only on the hope of getting their way - stopping the project and causing CDOs, lawsuits and bankruptcy for the District - as leadership based on delusions and extremely poor judgement. It was slickly sold to the community and only prevailed because of timing and hype.

I also believe that Lisa was conned and used. I feel sorry for her.

Maybe you don't live here franc4, so you will not be paying the price of further damage to the groundwater, further pollution, unnecessary cost -- all cause by ego coupled with lack of education and understanding.

Sewertoons said...

Surely Ann, with your close relationship with the principle players, you must have some idea as to why there was no bridge loan or no 218. I'm asking only for YOUR OPINION. Or do you feel that the old board and its players will give honest answers only under oath?

Maybe you can answer me this. If the old board was OK with the gravity sewer in the Blakeslee Compromise (despite their subsequent statements that Step was the only way to bring down costs), how were they going to stick to their stated mandate of lower costs, knowing that moving it out of town - with the buying of additional property, additional costs for design of a different treatment plant, possible lawsuits (every project has had lawsuits), additional regulatory hurdles and permitting, etc., could only cost MORE - the bidding climate would have been the same one as for the bidding on Tri-W? Maybe they really were NOT OK with the gravity part?

The Razor said...

I have to agree with Ann. There are many, many unanswered questions -- but if the breach of contract lawsuits fizzle out, there should be a truth and reconciliation hearing. That's something Ann has brought up previously, but it should be seriously considered. The discussion shouldn't be left solely to the discretion of people -- outside of the LOCSD -- who have a penchant for revising history and perjuring themselves if they were ever taken to court over their false, defamatory statements.

What's saddening is that we really don't know everything about what happened behind closed doors and closed session meetings -- so it's best to not pretend that we do.

Getting back to the article, I don't know who wrote that e-mail, but the statements made preclude a lot of the finer details that tell a different story (e.g. the State attempting to remedy legal anomalies by pushing for a 218, a mandated requirement since July 1, 1997) -- and for the recalled board to not pursue a 218 was ludicrous. That's just inexcusable, and so is e-mail from [redacted].

Alon Perlman said...

Wha, 3 posts since I wrote this?
To post or not to post, That is the question
Whether to suff- Oh Screw it

Oh Frankie you crack me up.
Lisa like the 45, continues to be USED to this day.
Everyone fastens where there is gain

Used in the same political science techniques, And by the same two sets of “friends” who are mutual enemies.

Yes, Chura; It is a pity that no one of personal integrity rose up and presented a credible legal representation of the 45-(46).
And in principle-Lisa was correct in stating that the 45 ARE representational of all the PZ, since if this was a real prosecution of the PeeZee town, additional sets would had followed. Again, some CSD directors chose to follow outside advice, to throw good money after bad.

The Water Board in a legal slight of hand, later lowered the burden.
Didn't erase the personal history and shock.
Including affects on decisions to sell or not to sell in the interim. (prior to the Waterboard-Central opinion release)
It remains that even though the pollution magically goes away with sale.
The requirement to disclose the CDO remains a disproportionate burden on the seller.
Disproportionate to an Identical house in the PZ that was not Waterboarded up.
Not to mention the Three (or two) year cost of increased pumping which is a continuing monetary and nuisance taking.

Like the old saying goes “A friend in neediness is a friend in talkieness”
But I have scribed my position about a year ago on that cardboard cutout of the second to last granite sister.

I will miss the contributions of directors Steve Senate and of Joe Sparks.
At least this time looks like Los Osos will get to choose by a non-KarlRovianized slate.
Or in Cockney-Unstrutted.
Hope it's not too late.

Sewertoons said...

Alon, as you say, "representational." I, as a PZ homeowner, have never wanted to be represented in that fight. That 45 were singled out was wrong, but then so was stopping the project for the "no plan" alternative. We were warned and the warning was ignored. The fight for a different sewer should have been fought on CSD turf, not Water Board turf. Actually, it was fought and lost. Then the magic of ballot initiatives came into play and the game was lost for good, despite the razor thin Measure B "win."

Since this consequence was badly thought out by the Water Board, what would a "good" punishment have been?

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Sorry I forgot his last name Lynette,

The Bruce Gibson/Paavo "If there is a technology which is significantly less expensive, then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away" Ogren orchestrated “Review of Alternatives sham” began in an entirely different economy. So the consequences of their activity or lack thereof will certainly provide a “good” punishment. Should the county “take” the project, I suspect they will receive their share even as they continue to ignore the financial pain their continuing poor performance provides.

No nitrogen pollution from septic tanks has ever been proven in a court of law, taken together with the fact that the County/WB approved 1,100 more points of potential pollution after 83-13 was in force is so very suspect as to really give the entire process a very large hole. It is so much fun watching your hate driven drivel in support of such an evil and unfair process. Everyone does get what they deserve and you are no exception. You will get what you give, along with B & P one way or another, sooner or later. Ever heard of it?

Mike Green said...

Alon wrote:
"The requirement to disclose the CDO remains a disproportionate burden on the seller."
Well here's the weird thing, you are wrong.
It would seem that a property that has a order on it decreed by the Water Gods to be so vile that living in said property harms the state of Californicate so bad that the state demands the removal of humans from that property (CDO) would be a big deterrent to anyone buying said property (in effect making it worthless).
It aint so. when the property sell, the CDO goes away.
Which of course would cause any SANE person's head to explode with a terminal case of WTF?????
But in Chinatown (TM, Calhoun) That's the way it's done.
Which also leads to an interesting problem.
Are the new owner's receiving NOVs?
Cause if they are not, then they are not legally required to hook up, and if the Water Gods don't fix that omission then all chaos will reign in just a few years when some people will find that their before hand unconforming septic tank is AOK now because it has sufficient area from other tanks to exist.
Welcome to the monkey house.

Alon Perlman said...

Sorry Mike Green... Not wrong, Simply omitted the Going away part as it is Old hat to me.
I discussed the going away part of the CDO's and additional on this blog multiple times.
I've even discussed it with real breathing CDO's who were not aware of the change in their status, until I told them about it. WELL over a year ago, in Baywood.

The fact that CDO disclosure is part of the sale of a house is a remaining relative disadvantage.

All PZ sales have to disclose an NOV to the best of my current memory.
45 CDO's have to ALSO explain that the House currently has a CDO. Then the CDO will go away on sale. But an NOV may be issued. And the Seller also must notify the WaterBoard.

At which point the potential buyer says "Wow, My head just exploded. so, the house across the street is selling for the same price and They didn't tell me a long story except for the NOV part, and now the waterboard may contact me, How about you drop the price 10 K?"

I may be slightly incorrect on this now, but I went through the permutations with great exactness about a year or more ago.

Kindly reread my post with the understanding that it was written knowing that the CDO goes away. This Grandma sucked that egg and wrote the primer.
The primary source of the information is Bill and Bev de witt Moylan, and their contacts with a CDO recipient who sold. they followed through with the waterboard Ending with an opinion by the sacramento waterboard lawyer that will make your exploded head reappear inside out on the body of a purple unicorn in another dimension. and Ann's reporting on it here.
my apologies for assuming that my own posts were read.

Understand that TO ME this is a stale subject.
I stated that the 45 CDO's are not forgotten and they are still under a different set of rules then other NOV recipients.

And the verification is; bearid

Sewertoons said...

Alon, ron started this up over on his blog.

He is still thrashing Tri-W, which he, unbeknownst to himself, oddly supports in a way by recounting the horror visited on Los Osians due to its stoppage. Really, what did he think would happen when the Water Board said to stop it would have serious consequences? (So far no one has come up with a "good" punishment that the Water Board should have meted out instead.)

Watershed Mark said...

The Waterboard via the County approved 1,100 more point sources of pollution after they imposed a prohibition zone. With that track record who can say what they mean when they speak.
That is a serious issue which will still needs to be addressed.

franc4 said...

'toons sez:
" I thought that you had professed Christian principles at one point and understood that difference. Or perhaps you do and are only interested in character assassination."
....yes I do have and yes I do understand and YOU (and Mike) are the "character assassins" that have never laid off picking at them for saving Los Osos from a BIG mistake. Why can't you just say "the POST Gordo, Stosh & Richy CSD"? No....You MUST mention Lisa, always, even though there were 4 others involved.
" I feel sorry for her.".....REALLY?...give me a break.

You are just too blind or whatever (dumb, would make me sound judgemental however true it may be),to see your, yes, Hatred...perhaps JEALOUSY may be a better word, idicitive of your "wanna be someone" mode.

Watershed Mark said...,tx14_paul,blog,999,All,Item%20not%20found,ID=100816_3732,TEMPLATE=postingdetail.shtml

The best answer, of course, would be to repeal the entire health care law, along with all other unconstitutional spending. But Congress is more likely to continue the shell game to cover the fact that we are broke and can afford none of this.

This whole idea of “paying for” new programs is a political euphemism that suggests that raising taxes is just as good as cutting spending since neither one increases the national debt. Raising taxes and overwhelming small businesses with paperwork and regulations still increases governmental burden on our fragile economy. But this is our government’s idea of “fiscal restraint” in action. Washington needs to stop creating new programs and spending so much money. That would be true fiscal restraint.

Churadogs said...

The Razor sez: "(e.g. the State attempting to remedy legal anomalies by pushing for a 218, a mandated requirement since July 1, 1997)"

remedy legal anomalies. ah, dem old legal anomalies.

Sewertoons said...

Hatred? Jealousy? Hardly. How about anger that the project was stopped, the water supply is further impaired, the CSD faces a hugely expensive bankruptcy (guess who will pay to fix that?) and I have a lien against my house?

Big mistake? How about an ENORMOUS PRICE for having no awareness on how to actually accomplish their goals? That would include an inability to listen, or comprehend or evaluate. Look who they hired as GM. Why they didn't sue him is beyond me. But I can guess.

Lisa Board? She was elected president by the board, therefore represents the voice of the board. But yes, all 5 are to blame. Sorry, didn't mean to leave them out.