Thursday, April 10, 2014

Dissed! Dissed! Can I Have Fries With That?

Ah, well, I guess the days of Board of Sups comity are over.  Years ago, you used to hear things like Supervisor A saying, "Well, I disagree with Supervisor B, but it IS his district and he knows his district's needs best, so I'll defer to his opinion and vote to support his motion." 

Not any more. At least not when it comes to Big Macs. (Or 2-1 vs 1-1 water trade-offs in Paso Robles, hmmmm?) 

I had to work Tuesday so missed the BOS hearing on whether or not Los Osos would get a McDonald's drive-thru, open 24 hours a day!  From talking with friends who were there, it seems it was a lively hearing, with over 100 people showing up, many of whom were adamantly opposed to a drive-thru of any kind and/or to a McDonald's of any shape or size. Also there, as the Tribune reports, were McDonald's employees from other sites who think the place is just swell, so Los Osos should have one, too.

And, from the Tribune story by Nick Wilson, I'm sure Supervisor Gibson argued vigorously against the eatery, claiming that a drive-thru violated the town's efforts to create a more pedestrian-friendly downtown and was a "step back" from doing "innovative things." 

That "discussion" would have been something to hear.  You know Gibson.  Once he cranks up into his stem-winder, Let-Me-Explain-It-All-To-You-So-You'll-Know-How-To-Vote mode, out pours a torrent of words, an endless overwhelming stream of relentless argle-bargle verbiage that floods out in such ever-increasingly vast quantities that it sucks all the air out of the room and  causes heads to explode until everyone's writhing on the floor with their hands over their ears, screaming,  "Stop! Stop! I'll vote any way you want me to, just please stop talking! Gaaaggghhhhh!" 

But this time, I guess the other Sups were wearing earplugs because they were unmoved and they were not into deference on this matter.  After all, if their districts had a McDonalds, then Los Osos, by God, would get one too because, as Supervisor Hill put it, being able to eat there or not was all "part of a freedom of choice."  Supervisor Ray, who doesn't live in the district either, said she didn't have a "problem with the project." 

So much for comity and deference.  Moribund. (Likely from eating too many big Macs.)   

And so it came to be, 4-1, that Los Osos will get a retro drive-thru fast-food eatery because of "seniors who can't easily get in and out of cars."  The only change is that the place won't be open round-the-clock, which will be a huge disappointment to the thousands of Los Ososians who wander the streets, bellies rumbling, at three o'clock in the morning crying, "Freedom Fries!  We want Freedom Fries!" 

Well, clearly, the community will have to do something to remedy that alarming situation.  


TCG said...

In the old days, the Bd. of Supes often used an approach in which the local supervisor was given the unspoken (or spoken in back rooms) leeway to argue and vote against the other Board members if that is how his constituents felt, knowing that he would lose the vote on the issue.

In other words, he privately supported the issue, but publically denounced it.

Not sure that happened here, but it is possible.

Anonymous said...

BTW, nowhere is it said that one HAS to eat at McD's.

I happen to be one who likes an occasional Big Mac and judging by the girth of some of the extremely vocal protesters, they must like more than an occasional one too, as they appear to eat a whole lot of less than healthy foods.

Are those self proclaimed protestors ever going to be happy with anything in Los Osos? They certainly don't represent me or any of my neighbors and friends. I've lived in SLO County 70 years and specifically in LO for the last 35 of those years.

I do wish those constant complainers would move to Santa Margarita where they could really dream up many more problems over there to protest.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like you enjoy more than an occasional martini with your Big Mac, old timer. Oh well. It's a free country I guess. Some folks happen to crave chopped frozen cow. Much better than the kind grazing peacefully on the green hill.

People who have lived here a while and want McDonald's should be ground up and served to the cows and see how well that goes down with them. It won't be long before their taste for human burgers grows on them. Then the question becomes: Are there enough of us in Los Osos to satisfy their appetite?

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Cows are vegetarians, and are not likely to eat a human burger or any burger, well, maybe a veggie burger. People however....Donner Party, cannibals in various locals.....hey, remember the movie "Soylent Green?"

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 3:19 needs to loosen the tin foil hat a bit before embarrassing herself any further.

Probably should back off the prescription pipe too and immediately enroll in Jenny Craig.

Churadogs said...

Well, there we go, with Anonnymice heading off into the weeds again. Jeesh.
Bottom line, Los Osos is getting a McDonalds. Now, let's hope there aren't traffic problems with lots of cars trying to turn left out of the Von's parking lot during come-home-from-work-pick-up-burgers "rush hour." As for the rest, eat there or not. FREEDOM FRIES! FREEEEEDOM FRIES!

Jill'sjots said...

My main concern is traffic. Between South Bay Blvd and Bayview Heights Rd on L.O.V.R. there is an unholy mess of 21 exits and entrances, 3 crosswalks, 4 traffic lights and merging lanes. This is all in a 25mph zone, which in itself is a joke. Just watch the chaotic drive along those 3 short blocks. Ever try to cross LOVR on foot, scary?

Anonymous said...

Jill, would your concerns would be the same if that building had remained a bank? The traffic is not going to lessen in the future unless streets are blocked off and that just isn't going to happen! You'll have a steep up-hill battle changing all of Los Osos to meet your NIMBY expectations. You really should consider moving to Santa Margarita so you wouldn't have to worry so much

Anonymous said...

I'm an old bag, and I support McDonald's in Los Osos because I can finally push my fat son in a wheelbarrow there. He loves his Big Macs. Did you know that if you press his stomach, it jiggles to any song by Miley Cyrus.

I love my fat bastard grandson!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this e wonderful words Julie!

Churadogs said...

Jill sure knows our mid-town LOVR. (Anybody remember the fabulous cartoon in the "Bay News," depicting a car waiting to turn left out of the post office entrance and the driver was a skeleton with cobwebs hanging off of him and the steering wheel. That said it perfectly)

I remember the dust-up when they widened that strip of road to the unholy proportions it is today; completely went against the whole notion of a pedestrian friendly central core. And here we are again. (There sure does seem to be a disconnect between LOCAC, various Los Osos "vision surveys" & etc, and what actually ends up happening, doesn't there? )

On the McDonald's situation, Kathryn Rossi and a great letter in the Trib. yesterday. She reminded the reader that Carl's Jr. put in an eatery in SLO and everyone went nuts and started a campaign of "don't patronize the place." Sure enough, not enough people ate at Carl's and the place closed and is now occupied by the Natural Cafe. So, now Los Osos has the same option: Hate McD's? Don't eat there. Ever. Love McD's? Eat there lots and lots. Then the businesses' bottom line will determine whether it stays.

Argument solved.

Anonymous said...

LOCAC has long been the problem for LO!

You do know that LO is the 4th largest populated community within SLO County. Don't you think we should have thinking leadership instead of the selfish activists? Is it time for LO to become a town or should it just be a bedroom neighborhood within City of SLO???

Whichever way LO goes, it is time to dump LOCAC!

Anonymous said...

The biggest joke and waste is Lafco!!!

Anonymous said...

How many duplicate layers of "local government" do we have...???

Mike Green said...

Well it looks like the crap is going to be available over the water level as much as under.
Folks that have an ounce of intelligence don't eat that crap. Idiots go to the emergency room with heart attacks

Churadogs said...

Mike, ultimately, that's it: If everyone eats there it'll stay in town. If they don't, like Carl's Jr. in SLOTown, they'll leave.

Anon 12:11, I don't think Los Osos has the business tax base to become a town. And oddly so many businesses that do open here fold so I'm not sure they get a lot of support from the community. The monthly sewer fees will take a large chunk of money out of the communities' discretionary income, so that's going to have an impact on business as well.

Anonymous said...

Ann, you continuously view the community through distorted glasses. The extreme level of activism that has become the trademark of Los Osos is the one main reason business do not move into or stay long in Los Osos.

You, Ann, have long been part of that faction of actively discouraging anything new in our community! You have encouraged and even participated in loudly proclaiming (even suing) that the rest of the County can go to hell, that no one can tell the small group of activists that they don't and never needed a sewer.

Los Osos now has a very expensive sewer and those of us who have lived here most of our lives are fed up with the bitching and moaning about how unnecessary and expensive this sewer is! Why would any business locate here while the activists continue. Run their more than ample butts off to some other unsuspecting community. Let them divide some other community. Let them create an environment that protests every new business that might consider moving there. Then let them complain that there is no business tax base even though they drive away any business.

Yes Ann, YOU are a part of the problem of what's wrong in Los Osos!!!

Anonymous said...

Ann was for McDonalds before she was against it.

I've known Ann for a little over a decade now. I didn't even read her blog. All I knew is that she had one and Ron Crawford had one. That's about it. I had no idea that Ann was a notorious liar.

She went after me. She went after the people I care about. She's allowed others to post vile comments about other people.

A little while ago I went to her workplace at Seven Sisters and told one of the ladies there about Ann. I asked her if she read her blog. She said she read it occasionally. Then I recited some of her accusations and assertions. You know what they told me? "That's awful. How could she say that?"

Pretty trashy person if you ask me.

Anonymous said...

Ain't that the truth!

Churadogs said...

Why, Aaron! Is that you? My favorite Fanboy? Gosh, I thought you swore on stacks of Bibles you NEVER post here Anonymously. EVER! Yet, here you are (again), pretending to be Anon 10:04! I'll share your posting with the "ladies" at work. I'm sure they'll be either astonished or amused.

Anon 7:56, Sorry, Anon 7:56, but businesses don't pay much attention to a tiny handful of citizens, whether they're community cheerleaders or community complainers. A business is based on bottom lines. McDonald's penciled out their minimum business needs and made a decision. The planning commission made their decisions, based on a variety of issues and the BOS made their decision, also based on land use and other practical matters. Only Gibson paid much attention to people opposed to the project, this being an election year for him. The other Sups did not. As stated, this was simply a land use issue. People objecting carried no weight. It was just "business."

McDonald's now has to make the final decision, to accept the water numbers and hours change, or not. Again, it's just "business." And then people will vote with their dollars.

Anonymous said...

Excuse me, Ann? I was the Anon from 10:04 and I'm not Aaron.

So who else do you think I am?

Anonymous said...

Yet another demonstration of what a jerk and phony Ann Calhoun really is. Everyone take good notice.

Ron said...

An anonaloser writes:

"So who else do you think I am?

Well, if you're memorizing portions of Ann's blog, then showing up at her workplace (and how in the world you know where Ann works, I find super-creepy), and then "reciting" what you think you remember from Ann's blog to a bunch a complete strangers, just to... well, I'm not sure what your twisted motivation is for going through all of that effort, just to pull-off that scary, scary exercise -- then, I know exactly WHAT you are: A friggin' nut-job.

If I was one of Ann's co-workers, and you showed up just to do that, I would have called the cops.

Then, of course, the super-creepy anonaloser writes:

"Pretty trashy person if you ask me."

Oh, the irony. HIGHlarious.

Of course, now, Einsteinaloser, IF you really did that crazy stuff (and, I mean, good god, do you have NO life?), then all Ann has to do, is ask her friends at work something like, "Uh, did some stalking nut job really show up here, and then start 'reciting' my blog to you? And, if so, did you get a name?"

... then, anonaloser, your worst fear comes true: You're no longer anonymous.

Ann writes:

"(There sure does seem to be a disconnect between LOCAC, various Los Osos "vision surveys" & etc, and what actually ends up happening, doesn't there? )"

Of course. And the answer to that question is fascinating.

If anyone wants to see a VERY interesting Google search (especially if you have any interest at all in land use planning, anywhere)...

Google: SewerWatch "vision statement"

... and read up.

THE most disastrous way to go about land use decisions? Base them on completely unscientific "visioning" surveys, that were whipped up by a tiny handful of agenda-driven people, out to make money.

Why that is official policy -- and it is -- I have no idea, but it REALLY needs to change.

Anonymous said...

I am the Anon 7:56 and I can assure you that I am NOT the Och kid or family! I am however, an ordinary community member who would like to see all of the activists move to another area. You Ann, have been providing so much negativity for far too long.

Doesn't it bother your conscious mind that you have deliberately misjudged and maligned a number of good folks around here? Don't you even realize how one sided and disingenuous you are? You are probably too bitter and old to change before you die, but you should really wonder whether you really are helping or hindering this community, have you been part of the problem or part of the solution???

Anonymous said...

I'm the 10:04 anon from yesterday again.

You know what, Ann? I find it offensive that you feel the need to personally harass Mr. Ochs and his family or assume he's the only person criticizing you. I don't like using this language typically, but from one woman to another: you're one nasty bitch.

Honestly, the way I found out about your misbehavior is from his website. I asked him, "Is what you've said true?" and he gave me links to comments that you made and comments that other people made. I've seen some really disgusting comments coming from you, Lynette, some guy named Mike and so many others.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Ann, allow me to butt in for a moment:

Anon 9:44 AM, April 14, 2014 and 8:59 AM, April 14, 2014, let me venture a guess if your claim not to be the fanboy is true. You are Peggy (a huge fan of Ann's and mine's fanboy Aaron) or Dianne! Of course you will deny this!

Anon 10:15 AM, April 14, 2014, let it go. Ann has moved on. Be practical. Stick to exposing the trouble makers that harass the BOS weekly with their angry punishments around the sewer project that they hate. That is where the negativity resides.

As to the "vision statement" for Los Osos, and I assume we are talking about the rules around what we want in this community (drive-thrus or not, etc.) that stopped being written at the recall when the Tri-W project was stopped. The Vision Statement or rather "Community Plan" is currently being re-written and those interested can read about it off this link and take a survey off that page (you have missed all the meetings that LOCAC held on the topic that I know of to date where you could have contributed in person):

I have to agree with Ron (for once) on the creepiness of the anon invading Ann's place of business. Sick. That same person attacked my husband when he was working at Cal Poly, writing some baseless blather to some school administrator against him. They just passed it off as ramblings from a nut job but then it wasn't someone actually in their office where campus security would have been called. Aaron wrote to the CSD against me and tried to have me kicked off the committees I was on. The GM at the time called the sheriff's office the letter was so creepy. You can read the asinine stuff Aaron writes about Lou and I on his blog. In this invasion of the workplace—if true and not just wishful posturing as this person likes mostly to write not show up—those at the front desk (or whatever is there) at Ann's work should get the name so Ann can post it here.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Anon 12:35 PM, April 14, 2014 said,

"I've seen some really disgusting comments coming from you, Lynette" and "he gave me links to comments that you made and comments that other people made."

Please provide us with those links!

Anonymous said...

Anyone reading Ann's blog has to realize this is nothing less than a forum to divide the community, it always has been and always will be.

Ann can not change, she likes fomenting dissent and facts be damned! She has never acknowledged that the community at large is disgusted with the activists and Ann as a cheerleader!

It is not surprising to hear of extreme crazies from both sides to continue and even escalate the hate being fanned by this blog. Ann does not seem to want to halt the division and even encourages the extreme behaviors. Ann has never addressed the division she helped create. She has never tried to rein in the activists and I'm not sure she wants to, just agitate and write as much poison as she thinks will continue against those she disagrees with. There is never any attempt to heal the community divisions.

Anonymous said...

You can clearly see the hate and character assassination practiced here by Ann and Lynette.

They are simply unable to control themselves because this is who they are.

They can't be judged harshly enough by the community.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Anon 3:59, you are also part of the problem! Character assassination seems to be your personal trademark. Time to relax and save your money to pay your sewer bill. The sewer war is over, hopefully Ann will finally take up an olive branch and stop her assassinations. None of us got what we would have wanted thanks to the vocal extremists. Maybe Ann will encourage them to sit down, shut up and accept that LO and the CSD has no control of the construction or any perceived problems. It's over! Now get ready to flush and forget, and hopefully we'll begin to see improvements in our drinking water supply.

Anonymous said...

Apparently, anon 4:47, you don't have a clue what you're talking about and it's obvious you can't control yourself either. This is what it's come to for Calhoun, Tornatsky and the cult of hate.

Anonymous said...

6:00 Put down the martini, go have a Big Mac and relax before you have a stroke. You're a total loser!!!

Anonymous said...

I am NOT OCHS but I loved his new column.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Thanks for the tip to the new column Anon 7:34 PM. It proves the little guy has tripped himself up this time, big time. I wonder how long it will take for him to figure out how?

Anonymous said...

About as long as it takes you to figure out how demented you are and seek help?

Churadogs said...

Some of you obsessed Fanboys & Girls, are absolutely amazing! Ron has it right. Creepy. Stalking, pathologic projection, obsessive, self-feeding malice and mis-directed rage and pointless ankle-chewing. Creepy, absolutely creepy.

Here's what you FB's & FG's have apparently missed in your obsessive ranting and ankle-chomping: The majority of the "Community" you speak of, doesn't pay attention to or care about the Sewer Wars or this blog, or Ron's blog, or the Los Osos 45, or the folks who show up before the BOS on Tuesday to exercise their constitutional rights to annoy the BOS, or much of anything else, for that matter. For the vast majority of the "community," The Sewer Train left the station a few years ago when the County held its "Survey" and the "Community" "voted," then moved on. Game over.

The rest is history. Interesting history, often eye-opening history, but history.

Anonymous said...

...and of course, Ann, is the perfect angel with this innocent blog that has not cheered on the malice and rage!

Anonymous said...

Then why do you go to such lengths to libel people who don't even blog here? Is this your idea of community sport?

FOGSWAMP said...

Will the FOG (related & created) by our local fast food service industries get into our new sewage system?

According to the EPA 75% of sewer blockages are FOG driven. The fat, oil & grease enters the sewage pipes through restaurant, residential and commercial sink drains.

Some communities have FOG Prevention training programs to educate the public.

An interesting & informative article headed "Bugs Eat Their Way Through A Fatty Problems" describes how UK McDonald's handle the problem by adopting different biological treatment systems and also minimizing water consumption.

Anonymous said...

I'm not going to post on this blog anymore. You people are very mental.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Ah, Anon 1:49 PM, you have said that before. See you next time the unmentionable one gets a mention over here. Funny how he feel it necessary to post a big rant against people on his blog when he is mentioned even as the nameless one.

Anonymous said...

Just curious: Does a cuckoo clock spring out of your forehead at noon and midnight or just midnight????

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:43 I agree, they act and sound like children!

Anonymous said...

I disagree anon 8:18. Children behave far better than sociopathic adults with nothing to do all day except randomly, unapologetically attack people here for sport. Disgusting.

Bob from San Luis said...

I used to comment quite a bit when Dave Congalton had his blog and could not quite understand why so many who comment on blogs are so "in" to flinging their poo in the form of outrageous comments, personal attacks and plain old rudeness.

I don't know Ms. Calhoun at all, I just know what I have read of her writing; those who claim she is fomenting hate seem to me to be engaging in "projection" where they get upset at her, accusing her of the behavior that they themselves engage in. It is sad really, that there cannot be an adult conversation on blogs like this where opposing ideas can be discussed, facts presented if one has links to back up their assertions and a true dialog could happen.

And to go into a business to gossip about the writings of one of the employees with the other employees; why would someone do that? What a shame. Oh well.

Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...

Serious shark-jumping going on.

Anyone who randomly and falsely names someone for criticizing you has no grounds to accuse others of "projection."

The attacks I've seen here are downright shameful. Going into someone's workplace for the sole purpose of complaining about their blog activity? Dumb.

Viciously attacking Lynette and Ann while using my site as a battering ram? Leave me out of it, please.

If you don't like me writing about your obsession with me, then stop talking about me every time some anonymous pinhead criticizes you. Problem solved.

Bob from San Luis said...

Aaron: I am somewhat confused; are you accusing me of projecting, like I am accusing those who criticize Ann for her writings? In reading the rest of your comments, it seems like we are pretty much in agreement, except I really don't bother with commenting about, on or to your site. I know you and I had a little back and forth some time ago, perhaps on the Tribune site, but I really don't have much of an opinion of who you are, what you do or who you write about.

I do respect your similar opinion about the poo flingers here though; like the famous philosopher asked: "Can't we all just get along?" Well, he wasn't really a philosopher, but his question does have a valid point ....

Anonymous said...

Just being in this poo blog Bob makes you suspect to "projecting". You admit you don't know Ann personally, yet you can make judgments based on a sample of her writing? You probably aren't aware of her lawsuit and that she has never repaid the CSD for that fiasco?

Sorry Bob, but you should stick to commenting in the Tribune...

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Bob from San Luis, I think a testament to "Can't we all just get along?" is the amicability between Ann and I. You know that I have disagreed with her over the years on the sewer topic, just look back on my blog posts! But we have laid down olive branches and get along nicely these days. I am now able to see her side of it and she mine. I disagree with the poster who is ragging on Ann about the PZLDF case. It's OVER and we all have moved on!

Anonymous said...

"It's OVER and we all have moved on!"

Do you really think anyone believes you and your lying husband for one second, Mrs. Pinocchio?

No way.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Aaron Ochs, you write many, many paragraphs about me, sometimes whole columns dissing me—sometimes with no provocation against you at all, or maybe just the sentence or two you see above.

This says a LOT MORE about you than all your hundreds of words you write about me does, or haven't you realized that?

Thanks for exposing yourself on your blog as the former anonymous person who supposedly contacted Jean DeCosta about attempting to get Lou in trouble at Cal Poly. I took a guess it was you on that one and you came out of the woodwork to claim the title! I really didn't know if it was you or not but now I do! Oopsie!

Anonymous said...

Have you tried a banana?

Anonymous said...

Gosh, Lynette. You go to these CSD meetings, act very nice, very friendly and pretend that you're a little angel. I come on here, a blog I read maybe once or twice every six months, and I see all this hatred spewing out of you.

I already knew you were trouble when you were telling people on The Trib that my husband cost the district millions of dollars and you were attacking him every time he sent a letter to the editor. Provocation? You provoked every one I know. You went up to their faces and wrote on the Trib that you were going to "stop" us because some of us exercise the right to speak at the Board of Supervisors on Tuesdays.

I take that as a threat. Come to think of it, Lynette, it was Lou who bumped chests with my husband a few years ago, and told him to "move or else" at a LOCSD meeting. It was Lou who spit in Lisa Schicker's general direction one night as she was making her way to the dais. It was Lou who threatened Lisa while yukking it up with George Milanes. And you? You just do his bidding. You're the Stepford wife.

Let's not forget that you were seen parked outside of Linde Owen's house, the Taylors. Heck, you even followed Ben home after Gibson's office hours. What's with all the intimidation, Lynette? Don't like it when you get caught? Because that's what happens.

And you know what? I went to that Celebrate Los Osos event at the Red Barn. You tried to approach me and I backed away. You keep trying to harass me, but I want nothing to do with you. I told you that, but you keep trying to confront me. Do I have to get a restraining order now?

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Anon, 6:24 are you Aaron posing as someone else again? Hard to tell, since that anonymous stuff is his MO and so much of it sounds alike!

" were telling people on The Trib that my husband cost the district millions of dollars."

"You...wrote on the Trib that you were going to 'stop' us because some of us exercise the right to speak at the Board of Supervisors on Tuesdays."

OK, a guessing game! Let's see, who speaks on Tuesdays at the BOS AND has a husband....Mr. Margetson (nope, no husband). Ms. Owen, (nope, no husband), Mr. DiFatta (no husband, he IS the husband), Ms.Tacker (nope, no husband) and Dr. Hite (no husband).

So you clearly don't speak Tuesdays in person at the BOS but you must just be imagining that you do. That would fit with all your other imaginings posted above.

Also, you have used the line, "I come on here, a blog I read maybe once or twice every six months" a few times too many. Maybe you can get some new material?

Anonymous said...

I'm not Aaron, and you are waaaay, waaaaay off about who I am. I used to speak at the BOS but I do not anymore.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

As long as you are an anon 7:32, spouting the same stuff as the nameless one, you speak with the same voice, you are the same, you have not distinguished yourself at all, and all that you say, as you prove nothing, is just blather.

Churadogs said...

Dear Anonymice: I have a suggestion. Instead of englessly (and futilely) arguing on this blog comment post, can Anon 6:24 and Toonces (and anyone else) figure out some way to meet in person and discuss who did or did not do what to whom and when. Right now there's too many "you's" with nobody knowing who the "you's" are. And if you add in "me too-ers" or spoofers pretending to be "you's," well, all of "you" can see the problem?
Also what really, really needs to be discussed, while you figure out who did what to whom, is the constant use of the overblown apocalyptic think-speak. If a person is hyper-paranoid (or in a raging fury) and somebody says something critical about them, and they then declare that the criticism is a THREAT!!!! THREAT!!! then you're clearly out of the normal rules of discussion, debate, argument, etc. With that kind of paranoid world view, furious/aggrieved frame of mind and hyperventilated extremist use of words/meaning, even a healthy, vigorous disagreement will veer off into the crazy-weeds.

As San Luis Bob notes, surely everyone here is capable of sane discussion and debate without veering off into the crazy-weeds?

Churadogs said...

P.S. And when did political disagreement turn into an ATTACK! Someone sends a letter to the editor espousing X point of view. Another person sends in a counter-letter disagreeing with you and espousing Y point of view. When did that "disagreement," even a strongly worded "disagreement" become an ATTACK! instead of what it really is, a "disagreement, even a "strongly worded disagreement," or a strongly worded "criticism?" That's not an ATTACK! That's a Letter to the Editor or an Op/Ed or an Opinion Piece.

In public discourse (any discourse, especially on a hot topic,) there's a certain level of rough and tumble So anyone engaging in same needs to lighten up. Words create our reality and the wrong word can head a person off into the crazy weeds right off the bat which means no sane discussion can take place.