Pages

Monday, January 15, 2007

Ding! Ding! Ding! Incoming Message! Anybody Home? Helloooooo?

The following press release was received from the Prohibition Zone Legal Defense Fund. Some of the Los Osos 45 will be filing an appeal, both to the State Water Board and then go into a “real” court. The outcome of their efforts may well impact the rest of the citizens of Los Osos. The Chair of the RWQCB has indicated that negotiations for improving the “alternate” settlement agreements are still open for discussion before they proceed against the rest of the community – Yes, that means YOU..

Considering what an appalling mess they’ve made of this Mad Pumping Scheme, CDO Kangaroo Court, Torquemada’s Mat Hatter Auto-de-fe & Traveling Public Beheading Show, I’m sure the Chairman and Board would like to figure out a better way to approach all of this. So would PZLDF.

Your support now may save you a ginormous headache (and big bucks) further down the line. So, Los Osos, wake up, get informed. The Regional Board wishes you to believe that the difference between a CDO and their 9present) Alternate Settlement (a CAO in form if not in name) are but minor matters, sort of like the sleazy insurance salesman who tells you, “Don’t worry, all homeowners’ policies are alike. The language in the policy? It’s just standard, one policy’s like the other. The wording’s there for some one-in-a-million just-in-case, so don’t bother with the fine print. Sign here. Nothing’s going to happen.”

Until it does.

THAT’s why what PZLDF is doing actually does matter . . . to you.



A message from the Prohibition Zone Legal Defense Fund

The PZLDF is heading up the organization of the appeal for about half of the enforcement defendants. 12-14 defendants are filing their appeal through Sullivan and Associates. The appeal (petition for review) is first considered for a hearing before the state board (SWRCB) and then (if necessary) in superior court.

Not only is an appeal about challenging the RWQCB enforcement method, but to propose better solutions. PZLDF has been proactive in alternatives to CDO's, and proposed interim workplans that improve water quality, and interim compliance measures within better settlement agreements, (Not a CAO that has severe unintended consequences).

The efforts by those appealing the CDO's have the potential of protecting nearly 5000 properties from getting CDO's, and providing cooperative efforts toward regulatory relief.

Even those who served as the first "test case" within the first 45 ---but who settled because of personal reasons --stand to gain a better settlement from the efforts of this first group of CDO holders who are petitioning for review (appeal) .

The cost for review is high and your help is needed. Because of the direct benefits to you and your property, I ask that you donate NOW to help fund the appeal process. The Water Board IS going to send you an enforcement order.
WHAT CAN BE CHANGED IS THE ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS AND METHODS YOU WILL FACE.

You can make a donation directly at Coast Bank to PZLDF, or send a check in any amount to P.O Box 6095, Los Osos Ca 93412

Help your neighbors and help yourself....Give generously....the next wave of enforcement depends upon the few that are holding the line for you now.

Thank you for your consideration!

87 comments:

Anonymous said...

You polluters will ot get one dime from me. Stop begging and clean up your mess!

Anonymous said...

Unless & until McPherson "allows" everyone "admitance" to "HER meetings", why should other PZ residents donate ANYTHING? She is making BAD decisions for ALL of us & she has absolutely NO NEGOTIATING SKILLS. PZ residents can do BETTER on THEIR OWN with the water board, all SHE does is piss everyone off.

Anonymous said...

Is is truly unfortunate that some of the good people of Los Osos can't get past politics and help each other out. Most of us have opinions about a variety of individuals in our community. We shouldn't let that keep us from from doing what's best for those who need our help.

Anonymous said...

The PZLDF is NOT the way to solve our problems and certainly NOT with the help of McPherson.

The PZLDF has NOT proposed ANYTHING to help anyone.

DO NOT WASTE MONEY, DO NOT HELP FUND A SMALL GROUP OF DISSENTS WHO HAVE FOUGHT AGAINST ANY AND ALL SEWER PROPOSALS IN OUR DISTRICT.

WE ARE WHERE WE ARE NOW BECAUSE OF THOSE OBSTRUCTIONISTS, IT'S TIME TO MOVE FORWARD AND LET THE STATE AND COUNTY HELP US BUILD A MODERN SEWER.

Anonymous said...

In response to 9:35, I am not an obstructionist. I was not involved in the politics of Los Osos prior to receiving a proposed CDO. My first response was to explore alternatives that I could implement and do my part to protect the water. I was blocked by the RWQCB at every turn. The RWQCB is not so much interested in protecting the environment, as it is in punishing us for not voting for a specific project.

I am fighting because the RWQCB does not play fair. They have been granted leniency in enforcement of water quality issues to expedite action when dealing with large corporations and municipalities with legal staff. They are now using these powers to come after individuals. Individuals do not have the resources, expertise, or power to fight this abuse without the protection of the courts. But we have to try. If they are allowed to prevail, it will set precedence for the rest of California.

Was it disclosed when you purchased your home that you were discharging illegally from your septic tank? According to my CDO I have been discharging in violation since the day that I moved in. Why did the RWQCB never pass this information to the individuals buying homes in the Prohibition Zone? Why did they allow the county to declare only that new discharges were illegal? How can they now use information that was never disclosed to issue individual CDOs? What was the real reason for creating a prohibition zone and why was the PZ never allowed legal challenge? We will need to dig to the root of this issue to solve our controvery here in Los Osos, and as long as the RWQCB covers up and denies the past, the controvery will go on.

Anonymous said...

Start looking into sueing your Real Estate Agent. It's been disclosed since 1976 that I'm personally aware.

If you didn't see or hear the battle cry of the "Move the Sewer" folks, then you are blind and or deaf and probably just another unconcerned citizen. We had a sewer under construction. It is not the RWQCB's fault that the CSD halted construction. It is the fault of everyone who voted for the recall. You created this financial nightmare, not the old board, not the RWQCB, but you who voted for the recall. What did you think would happen by voteing in those extremist's?

Now you have another choise, either support the State and the County or sell and move. Either way, Los Osos will have a sewer.

Anonymous said...

A Building moritorium was disclosed. This prohibited new bedrooms and bathrooms (new discharges). It did not prohibit existing discharges. Real estate agents were only following the directives given to them by the county, established through a memorandum of understanding with the RWQCB.

We are not fighting for no sewer. We are fighting for due process, for our constitutional rights. There are some people in this community who are afraid of the truth coming out. They want to shut us up and bury the truth. Too many skeletons in the closet. 1:38, are you one of them?

Anonymous said...

To anon @ l:53PM:

If it did not prohibit existing discharges, then how can there be CDO's now?

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:38, Your argument is weak...

You assume every CDO recipient voted for the recall.

Is it fair to treat CDO recipients that did not vote for the recall as if they did?

What if you say that doesn't matter... and you think that all residents are tagged with supoprting the recall because the majority did...

Is it fair to treat all voters in Los Osos as if they are recall supporters??

For every argument you make that justifies treating the CDO recipients as if they are at fault for where Los Osos is now... an argument can be made for why they are not responsible.

What if I am a homeowner and have done everything I can do to support the construction of a sewer... and was willing at every step of the way to install a zero discharge system on my property, but was told it was not necessary because I could wait for the sewer to be built... and continued to support that.

In the mean time, I maintained my septic tank, had it inspected, pumped it when needed, didn't use harsh chemicals at home that would disturb its operation, didnt use my garbage disposal or a water softener. What if I installed low flow toilets and shower heads and installed drought tolerant native plants and as a result conserved more water than most... and as a result much less waste water goes through my septic tanks.

What if I live alone and work outside of Los Osos so my toilets are rarely used in the first place...

I have basically done everything I could do to solve this problem...

What power do I have to prevent receiving a CDO??

What power do I have to change the outcome of the last few years?

Without ANY power to make a difference, how can I be held responsible for the actions of an entire town?

I understand being responsible for my personal actions and the above description is exactly the type of actions a responsible person would take...

So what if NOW, unable to alter the actions of an entire town... I again want to take personal responsibility for my personal actions... what can I do within the law to comply with the discharge prohibition PERSONALLY... ON AND ONLY ON MY OWN PROPERTY?

Is there anything I alone can do to avoid liability with the RWQCB?

If there is then let me know... because the RWQCB has given no indication that there is a personal solution, that ONE homeowner can implement to stave off the wrath of the RWQCB.

And I have concluded that if there is no possible way for me, ALONE, to solve this delima, then I alone cannot be held personally responsible.

Personally responsible for the actions of an entire town?

This is America still, right?

Anonymous said...

This is America still, right?

Listening to the Lisa, Julie and the great legal minds hired by the CSD makes me wonder. Is Los Osos still part of America? We've all heard from our CSD how corrupt every agency in America is supposed to be. Is the Los Osos CSD the only correct government? I'm surprised there aren't guarded gates on the borders of the independant nation of Los Osos.

The blood for over many years and in many countries has provided Los Osos citizens the Rights and Freedoms to voice differences, but not the right to continue to obstruct! Los Osos is NOT a sovereign country, no matter how loud any obstructionist shouts.

There are laws governing our society, it's about time Los Osos woke up and tossed out the few individuals who only want to delay the process while hiding behind their interpretation of Rights and Freedom.

If you don't live in Los Osos or don't pay property taxes in Los Osos, then keep out of the discussions. If you are one of the 4500 of us who live in the PZ, then support the State by signing and agreeing to support the County in planning and building a sewer to help clean up our drinking water.

Anonymous said...

In response to 2:58;

I do not know of any CDO recipient that does not support the County in planning and building a sewer. Don't confuse the issues. Appealing the WB is not stopping the County process. The settlement offer presented by the RWQCB forces the County step to the waterboards drum pace rather than act with due diligence. We have been down this road before and failed miserably. I will continue to fight the WB until they back off as Blakeslee intended, or I get Briggs on the witness stand.

You are right when you state that there are laws governing our society. And the WB is not above these laws.

Anonymous said...

Gee Gail, do you have that much clout?

Anonymous said...

No, not Gail. Just an idividual who was sitting on the fence watching the battles, hoping that somebody would solve this mess. Until the WB threw me onto the front line with a lottery. All things happen for a reason so I will step up and do my part. I do my own research, draw my own conclusions, and follow my own heart. If Gail is on the same path that I choose, she must be cool.

Anonymous said...

So, now that the County is trying to get a fair and diligent analysis of alternatives done so that a Prop 218 election can be held, how do you all feel about the current CSD Board and their hangers on doing everything that they can to control and influence the County process (since they did such a fine job when they were in charge of developing a sewer project)?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 4:34 PM

The RWQCB did not throw you or any of us under the bus. They are charged with the resposibility and authority to enforce compliance of Clean Water Acts.

It may seem as if you were singled out, but that is not true. There are 4500 of us and we must take the lead in showing some positive progress toward completing a sewer to end the septic discharges. We have to end the backwards steps taken by ths CSD. We can do that by supporting the County. We are all in this together, at least those of us who actually own property within the PZ.

Reality said...

Good discussion. However a sewer is mandated by law. We are polluters. Better build some sort of sewer that the regulating authorities will accept.
If we do not, the consequences are horrible. If you do not accept the consequences, fight to change the law. You speed and get caught, you pay a fine. If you do not pay, you go to jail, and car gets towed. In this case your home becomes not usable or you pay for a discharge permit in 2011 if they will give you one.

There may be no affordable solution for those who cannot afford to pay. What has the LOCSD done for you except put the district into bankruptcy? How about your loss in real estate value? It is not over yet!

McPherson crafted the defense to the water board CDOs.......effective?

Seeker of Truth said...

McPherson and the LOCSD board has lied to the community so many times, it would be difficult to ascertain if she or the board was telling the truth. And yet ANN continues to defend them.

Anonymous said...

Seeker of Truth, you are correct.

Ann Calhoun, why don't you try looking at the CDO FROM the Water Board's point of view for a month?

Publish the other side and keep an open mind.

Sewertoons said...

Maybe a better alternative to CDO's and CAO's can be crafted, but if it doesn't include dire consequences if the 218 does not pass, and following that, if any group tries to stop the project that the County starts, it will not fly. What would force us to build a sewer otherwise?

The RWQCB is sick of us. Gee, I wonder why?

Anonymous said...

Scare, fear, threats -- it worked before and will probably work again....afterall, this is Los Osos where the land is gold and you don't deserve to live here.

Anyone who thinks that Blakeslee isn't working with the county and RWQCB is very stupid, I'm sorry.

If Blakeslee did care about any of you, he would defend the CDO's. Same with the county... if they cared at all, they would get involved too. But, NO, THEY'RE ABSENT!!!!!! Their only part is to tell you if the 218 doesn't pass -- oh, it will be horrible. Don't ask the price and pass the 218 even if it's $500 a month. Just do it or it will be horrible, yep, fear, fear, fear...it works.

Yes, dear Mr. Blakeslee and the county are absent. They just watch the RWQCB fry the CDO's.

And you say it's about clean water?! HA. HA.

Wake up Los Osos!

Fools dare to tread said...

It is all about clean water and observance of the law. For 30 years fools have been fighting the law that their duely elected legislature crafted. If you violate the law you are punished. A CDO with a fine is a punishment. $500 a month? How about a discharge permit for $1000 a month?

Thank the fools for stopping the sewer! Thank you LOCSD board of directors who stopped the sewer.

Wishful Thinking said...

And so an anon would expect the County and Blakeslee to defend violators of the law and thus allow continance of polution and delay of a sewer.

Now that makes a lot of sense: Elected officials sworn to uphold the law defending law breakers. This just shows the warped thinking of one person in Los Osos. Guess this person expects a sewer at $40 a month for each property owner's formerly $400,000 home. "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride."

Sewertoons said...

anon 10:51pm, you said:

"Their only part is to tell you if the 218 doesn't pass -- oh, it will be horrible."

What do you think will happen if the 218 does not pass?

Churadogs said...

anonymous sez:"Seeker of Truth, you are correct.

Ann Calhoun, why don't you try looking at the CDO FROM the Water Board's point of view for a month?

Publish the other side and keep an open mind."

On one of the CDO's (they keep morphing and changing, so it's hard to know just what the Board is using as a justification month to month) it states that they are requiring pumping, inspecting and repairing as a justification as part of mitigation and partial ameloriation of groundwater pollution. Tim Cleath (whose "expert testimony and studies on water issues and studies here in Los Osos are used by the RWQCB) testified that pumping, inspecting, repairing would have no measurable effect on the groundwater. Only building a sewer would. Then the document requires that people hook up to a sewer when it's built. No, somebody please tell me again why a CDO is justified? Won't do diddly to the groundwater. Then somebody, Please give me any evidence whatsoever that the majority of people in Los osos do NOT support a wastewater system. The RWQCB's own documents note that the citizens have supported such a system all along. Then, please indicate to me how putting a CDO on any property is causing the county to move any faster than they are moving? Then explain to me how spending gazillions in tax money by the State to hold these show trials does anything but waste tax money and distract a good portion of the community that should be focused on keeping the county on target.

Somebody? Anybody? What I keep reading in these comments are Hidden Agendas, personal quarrels and vendettas, wrong conflations, deliberately false info, trumped up slanders and faux outrage, etc. . The anonymous CDO recipient who said that he/she is focusing on the legal rights that are being trampled has the most important point of all. If what the RWQCB is doing is scientifically pointless and, as one anonymous poster pointed out, sets up a total Hobsons' Choice that makes option impossible then forces citizens to do the IMPOSSIBLE, all of which may well be illegal, then for that reason alone they need to be stopped. The 45's rights are being trampled. You're next. Now, for those who don't care, fine. Why atttack those who actually do care about making sure their legal rights aren't being trampled? What's the point of that, except more disinformation.

Or maybe we can all pray that the RWQCB will come to their senses, since what they're doing simply makes no sense -- except as a tactic to electioneer or coerce a community into voting a certain way, all of which may backfire (I've noted before, why would anyone in their right mind give anyone in this community the "hook" of electioneering to even think about a lawsuit. That's totally counterproductive.)

Sewertoons sez:"Maybe a better alternative to CDO's and CAO's can be crafted, but if it doesn't include dire consequences if the 218 does not pass, and following that, if any group tries to stop the project that the County starts, it will not fly. What would force us to build a sewer otherwise?"

The justification of pump, inspect, repair, while looking good and making one feel good (hey, we're doing something here) is scientifically pointless. promising to vote a certain way falls into Electioneering and I doubt that's legal. The RWQCB implies that 'alternatives" to discharging exist, but when pinned down admit (under oath) that there ARE NO ALTERNATIVE within the PZ, and there are no alternatives because THEY have decreed it so. (Hobson's Choice) So, what the Board is attempting with the CDOs is to get people to do the IMPOSSIBLE. So, what's the point of the CDO's?

In the waterboards own documents over the years, they note that the majority of Los Ososians support a wastewater system and ahve alwlays supported a wastewater system. The waterboard knows that. This town doesn't need to be "forced" to build a system.

Where things went wrong was the Process failed (was ignored, short-circuted, call it what you will) and this train headed off down the wrong track. The tragedy was that too many people remained asleep at the switch or believed the lies they were told (there IS no other option! We HAVE TO start construction right now, etc.)until it was too late. IF the Process had been followed, the Coastal Commissioners would have insisted their question be asked and answered, the community would have had two plans before them, IF the CSD had then followed up with a 218 choice vote (what I called at the time a Chinese Menu vote) the project would have been chosen, the assessment (hence the SRF loan) would have been secured, the community would have voted, the project would have moved ahead and everyone could then shut up and go whine about something else. BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN and because it didn't happen this project headed off a cliff. The RWQCB, the Coastal Commission, even county planning KNEW there were problems here, that the process had been screwed with (remember the old "bait and switchy" comment -- uh-oh, that gave the game away right there.) You're looking at the consequences of that.

Right now we have a chance to get that PROCESS back on track. When we do -- providing everyone keeps their thumbs off that scale -- I have no doubt that this community will vote on that 218 assessment and we'll move ahead. There is no need to "force" anything, which is why I agree with the RWQCB's OWN conclusions that CDOs on a whole town are inappropriate and counterproductive.

Ron said...

Reality said:

"However a sewer is mandated by law."

That's inaccurate, and it's a common misconception. Ceasing illegal discharges is what is mandated by law. A sewer is just one of the "few alternatives" (the RWQCB's words) that can skin that cat.

"...yet ANN continues to defend them."

She does? Where?

After working and corresponding with Ann, off and on, over the last 15 years, trust me, she's not doing that. You're misreading.

Anonymous said...

Churadogs--Why do you think that "the community needs to keep the County on target?"

I think that the County is very capable of providing a professional alternatives analysis for us to choose a project from. The only group that has not been able to get, and stay, on target is our community, headed by the CSD Board.

Anonymous said...

Gee Ron... do you live in the PZ?

Anonymous said...

Annon 9:35pm

You said: "The RWQCB is fed up with Lo
so, I wonder why?"

You know good and well why. If you don't, I'll tell you why. It's because they have been exposed for everyone to see incompetence and corrupt, that's why!!!sheesh! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that!!!!

Anonymous said...

I read in the TRIBUNE two and one half years ago of the U.S. funding for the building and fixing of 24 waste water plants in Iraq by Bechtel, a huge corrupt corp. in the U.S. Well, all the wastewater plants supposedly built ,were apparently failing within 3 months after completion ;the reason being that Iraq employees were not maintaining the plants. So now all Americans are paying the taxes on these plants. But here is the rub, there was no accountability that Bechtel really did build those plants...As an American taxpayer wanting to get an affordable, sustainable , out of town wastewater system that we PZ zone citizens are solely responsible for the cost. Why OH why are we being so abused? Well, the politics are changing and the sustainability laws are changing right now . The old project was meant to be a total wipe out of us and our homes, now there is hope. So please Los Osos be positive. The old regime has been fired and the water board is trying to do as much dirty work as they can before they are obsolete. And Joe Sparks what in the hell was he thinking by suggesting our public meeting be removed? That says alot about what he is about.. The CSD was too considerate by offering him VP position he is the old regime! Visualise the positive Los Osos and have NO FEAR

*PG-13 said...

Anonymous > Gee Ron... do you live in the PZ?

Oh, get over it. Everybody knows Ron doesn't live in the PZ. That's public knowledge. He's made that known from the beginning of time. He's been very clear about that. That can't be said about 95% of the commentors on this blog. The people who comment on this blog and who we know live in the PZ can be counted on one hand with a digit or two remaining. If being a resident in the PZ is criteria for commenting on this blog then until you add your name to your comment (note: anybody choosing this option can claim to be anybody else so that's not much of an ID) the assumption should be that nobody actually lives in the PZ. Do you live in the PZ? I guess not. As I write this there have been 29 comments posted to this blog of which 25 are anonymous, two are posted as registered commentors (sewertoons) and only two are posted as known individuals (Ann and Ron). Of the 29 (now 30) posts only one, Ann's, come from somebody known to live in the PZ. Did I say get over it already?

I can appreciate why Ron gets under some people's skin. Some people kinda aggravate me too. See my comment on Ann's previous blog: Woof, Woof. And that list doesn't include an even longer list of politicians (beginning with our esteemed president). < sigh > But that doesn't mean their commentary shouldn't be listened to. Listen and if it makes sense use it. If it doesn't make sense ignore it. Or work against it. But location has no relevance to good ideas or clear thinking. Get over it.

Sewertoons said...

Ann says:

"In the waterboards own documents over the years, they note that the majority of Los Ososians support a wastewater system and ahve alwlays supported a wastewater system."

But Ann, what you are not taking into account is that if this is a true representation of Los Osos, it should have included the sentence, "…but as to what that wastewater system should be is the problem. Nobody can agree on what type, so after thirty years, there still is no project."

So clearly, "This town doesn't need to be "forced" to build a system, " is not quite true, or there would be one here right now and this discussion would be moot.

Anonymous said...

Ann,

You question why the RWQCB is giving CDO's, when it's very clear they are doing this to scare the people enough to get the 218 vote passed. There is NO OTHER REASON! There's no reason for people in the PZ to be terrorized for what the county never did, the past CSD's never did (since their formation) to build a sewer. The Pro-TRI-W people blame the CDO homeowners, which makes NO sense at all. No, it's all a scare tactic.

By the way, the county, PAAVO, is ignoring Orenco. So PAAVO is NOT being truthful at looking at alternatives at all. He's looking at TRI-W AND THAT'S IT!!

Ann, talk to Dana Ripley or Orenco and see if the county is taking any of them seriously!

A 218 isn't a choice vote, Ann. A 218 should be on a particular project. Or how else could the county come up with a figure for homeowners on what they are voting to be taxed for???

And talk about keeping your eyes on the ball. The county's advisory vote AFTER THE 218 could very well be our (hidden) Measure B vote. Remember, the State Water Board wants Measure B gone. They are afraid of it. Measure B is still there.

Why would the county have the votes backwards if it wasn't a trick????

There better be a class action suit filed against the RWQCB for civil rights violations and the FBI should be called in on "Abuse of Power" and the RWQCB should be reported. Has anyone checked into this?

Sewertoons said...

anon 5:20 said:

"There's no reason for people in the PZ to be terrorized for what the county never did, the past CSD's never did (since their formation) to build a sewer."

anon, you must have forgotten that the CSD was formed to STOP the County from building its sewer. No CSD has managed to build a sewer. (Altho the "Old Board" got pretty close.)

What do you think that the Water Board SHOULD do to get LO to build a sewer and clean up the ground water which is what they are all about? Just curious.

Anonymous said...

I want Orenco ! sustainable! Turn Key Privately financed. Our roads will not be torn up. Less expensive. Out of town !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sewertoons said...

anon 7:31, thank you for your answer.

So what is the mechanism for this to happen? Pass the 218 and find that option for the advisory vote to vote on?

If a property owner, vote no on the 218 and hope the project goes back to the CSD?

Are you making your preference heard to the County by a letter or at the Supes meetings?

Anonymous said...

To: Sewertoons,

The RWQCB doesn't have to do anything to get the sewer built. But the county has to be honest and pick a project that most of the community can afford and that is sustainable. Period.

That's what it's going to take to get the 218 passed. It's a "no-brainer" so the county has the project and there's no need for CDO's. Just do it right!

For all the money the county has spent already on consultants and so on, they should be able to come up with the right project for Los Osos so the place can become normal again.

Anonymous said...

Sewertoons:

Who are you trying to fool here? The advisory vote has to come first. Don't you agree that this "advisory vote" will probably be our Measure B? A trick???

We have to have a project first to get a cost to vote on!

You can see that the county is trying to fool L.O. once again and now have us vote on a black check, an assessment vote (trying to call it that when it's a 218) and you also know that we will only get ONE 218 VOTE!!! NOT TWO!!

Sewertoons said...

anon 8:34, you are correct. The RWQCB has nothing to do with getting the sewer built. It is US that must get it built so that we can hook up to something so we don't continue to foul our groundwater and get fined for doing so.

If the 218 doesn't pass, should the RWQCB THEN come in with CDO's?

Anonymous said...

MY VOTE IS NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unless we get treated fairly SUSTAINABLE..0UT OF THE CENTER OF TOWN... AFFORDABLE!!!!!!!! AND I WANT TO KNOW THIS IS LAW BEFORE I will vote..SO NO! before it is a done deal. We Wont be fooled again!

Anonymous said...

To Sewertoons:

You're not too bright are you?

I said if the county does what it said IT WOULD DO then we will have a wastewater treatment plant that everyone can agree on and vote for.

WE DON'T WANT TRICKS AND LIES (AGAIN.)

You wouldn't have to worry about the 218 passing if the county would only "play it straight" but they haven't so far (neither has Blakeslee or the RWQCB for that matter.)

Get real, and stick with the facts and stop acting like a cartoon.

When will you get it? And BTW, the Tri-W wouldn't clean ground water for HOW MANY YEARS???

Sewertoons said...

anon11:18, -

What the County said it would do was put out a 218. Then it would give us an advisory vote with two or three options.
What about this do you not get? Were you not at the Town Hall meeting? Those are the facts. What facts are you talking about? Have you told the County what you want?

Question: Do you think that everyone will vote for the same option?

Who says I am worried about the 218 passing? Sounds like you are though. Why?

Churadogs said...

Sewertoons sez:"But Ann, what you are not taking into account is that if this is a true representation of Los Osos, it should have included the sentence, "…but as to what that wastewater system should be is the problem. Nobody can agree on what type, so after thirty years, there still is no project."

No, what I said is, IF the Coastal commissioners had insisted that they get an answer to their question (they're the ones that smelled a rat in the old bait & switchy deal), the CSD would have had to do a side by side comparison (ballpark since end-stage value engineering wouldn't be possible at that point), and then IF the CSD held even an advisotry election, better a "securing" 218 vote on picking which of those two the community wanted, the community would have then CHOSEN their project and it would now be either built or well on its way to being built. No train wrecks. But that didn't happen and why it didn'thappen is one of the reasons Ron Crawfod made the droll observation that regulatory agencies exist to PREVENT things like Los Osos from happening. (i.e. this train wreck)

Anonymous sez:"Churadogs--Why do you think that "the community needs to keep the County on target?"

I think that the County is very capable of providing a professional alternatives analysis for us to choose a project from. The only group that has not been able to get, and stay, on target is our community, headed by the CSD Board"

There are some powerful forces at work here, State officials in charge of the SRF who don't want that loan looked at too carefully, powerful contractors and sewer firms who may not want their work looked at too carefully, lot of money to be made on a public works project of this sort, so the more costly the project, the more money to be made. Do any of those realities invite "thumbs on the scale?" of neutrally evaluating a variety of options? You betcha. That's why this community needs to be paying attention to the county's Process. To make sure systems get a fair evaluation, and are discared on their own merits, not because of some whispered back room deal, "Pssst, get me that $6 mil back, no Federal investigation into how those SRF loans were written, etc.)Enormous pressure. Add to that human nature to take the easy path and the possibility for another train wreck is always there. Always.

anonymous sez:"It may seem as if you were singled out, but that is not true. There are 4500 of us and we must take the lead in showing some positive progress toward completing a sewer to end the septic discharges. We have to end the backwards steps taken by ths CSD. We can do that by supporting the County. We are all in this together, at least those of us who actually own property within the PZ."

What "backward steps" are you talking about. The VOTERS voted to move the sewer plant out of town. They had to recall the previous board to make that happen, the newly elected board moved forward to do just that. They worked on the 'October" compromise/negotiation, when that fell through due to the State's poison pill addition, they then completed the project update report, completed ongoing water studies that would help with whatever system was built & etc. They supported the Blakeslee bill, they have repeatedly, from day one, asked to work with the RWQCB, asked the RWQCB to help them get a septic managemnt system up and running & etc. etc. So, I don't know what "backward steps" you're talking about. Everything I've seen them do is involved with "moving the project FORWARD."

As for the RWQCB's CDO as an electioneering tactic, consider this: The Basin Plan is up for its Triennial review. The RWQCB's budget is stretched and they're wasting so much money on these "show trials." Consider if they put their staff time and effort into working on that BAsin plan update to inclue a wider scope than the scientifically indefensible PZ, update the report to include septics in the growing outlying areas, get the plan ready to segue with AB885 when it comes on line and do that all BEFORE the county locks into a wastewater treatment plan that could be designed to segue into that updated basin plan. Now THAT would be a far better, more productive use of RWQCB resources.

Anonymous said...

I think that the process which the County is following of developing a set of preferred alternatives and publicizing them to the community, holding a Prop 218 election to establish a project funding mechanism, then (if that passes) holding an advisory election for the community's (not the CSD's) preferred project is the approach that makes the most sense at this point. If there were three projects being considered, the vote could easily be 45%, 35%, 20%.

If that was part of a Prop 218 process, nothing would pass and there would be no project. If the people in this example who preferred the 35% or 20% option don't get their choice for a project, will they support what the greatest number of residents want for the overall good of the community? We don't always get exactly what we all want. That doesn't mean that something shouldn't be done, but that appears to be the mentality of several out here.

Sewertoons said...

Ann said:
"The VOTERS voted to move the sewer plant out of town."

Didn't the voters move it out of town because it was supposed to cost less out there - $100??

Anonymous said...

Ann says: "scientifically indefensible PZ". Could you elaborate why this has not been acknowledged by the county and the water boards?

Since this is a proven fact, the way forward seems clear, the entire CSD boundary area needs to pay for sewer costs.

Why are they not consulting you Ann?

Anonymous said...

You hit the nail right on the head sewertoons. All these folks keep saying the sewer has to be affordable. So I ask them. What is affordable? Give me a number. And what if out of town proves to be more expensive? Then what? These CSD clones throw around "affordable" and "sustaniable" without ever giving any concrete numbers.

Ron said...

An Anon wrote:

"The advisory vote has to come first."

Just because I'm blown away by this fact, I want to reiterate it: According to county officials, the date for that silly advisory election is scheduled for the first half of 2008... a year and a half more of this. A year and a half! To study what? I have no idea.

Choose one:

A: This out of town location.

B. This out of town location.

C. This middle of town sewer-park that we already know your town hates based on the results of the last three elections.

A year and a half, and two million dollars for that?

Yep... that's meets the definition of "silly election."

Ann wrote:

"State officials in charge of the SRF who don't want that loan looked at too carefully..."

I bet they wake up and prey every day that that doesn't happen. It sure did cost California taxpayers a lot of money.... and all along, Mariposa County still can't get the $2 million they need for their badly needed wastewater treatment facility.

PG-13 said:

"I can appreciate why Ron gets under some people's skin."

Me too.

Anonymous said...

(the RWQCB's words)

Anonymous said...

http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/rwqcb3/Board/Agendas/070904/ItemReports/Item19/documents/Item19staffrpt.pdf

Ron said...

Of course, I meant:

"I bet they wake up and pray every day..."

and;

"Yep... that meets the definition of "silly election."

(Damn, I hate it when that happens.)

And, while I'm at it, I should have wrote:

"C. This nonsensical, middle of town, sewer-park that we already know your town hates based on the results of the last three elections.

[And I just read the post above this one, and I highly recommend everyone download that very interesting document and read the part on "Requiring Alternative Disposal Methods." You want to start cleaning up your water today? Then take the RWQCB's advice. Gordon -- "San Luis Obispo Coastkeeper?" Have you ordered your composting toilet yet, or are you still unnecessarily polluting the water just because you don't want to shell out the $1,700 for the alternative that the RWQCB said "will" clean the water? Just wondering.]

Anonymous said...

To Sewertoons:

The county can't have a proper 218 until they pick a project. They have to have a price tag on the 218, so tell me how can the county can put out a 218 with a price tag without first determining which project they've picked. Different projects have different price tags. Da!

Their advisory vote has to come first. The 218 second.

It's nice that you believe in the county's bull. But you don't have a clue what you're talking about!

Anonymous said...

Ann,

Who the hell is giving you the information you are putting out there??

A 218 vote isn't a choice on projects. A 218 is the amount of taxes you are going to be assessed for, along with an engineer's report, 45 day notice, etc.
NOT A SELECTION OF PROJECTS.

WHY DON'T YOU GOOGLE PROP 218 FOR YOURSELF?

Anonymous said...

2004 staff report

Anonymous said...

...that we already know your town hates based on the results of the last three elections..."

The only thing more appalling than hearing "your town hates" when in reality only half the town hates, (if you base it on the last 3 elections), is hearing it from a freakin' person who doesn't even live there. Sorry PG-13, but it DOES matter that Crawford doesn't live in Los Osos. Especially when I live in the PZ and the childish kicks he gets from "fighting the man" is costing me a bundle each and every day. ME a bundle. Not Crawford. Surely Crawford can find some authority figure in Santa Margarita to get off on fighting.

Anonymous said...

Dear Sewertoons,

Are you telling us that the county wants to break the law now too regarding the 218?

Orenco can do a project for less than $100 a month and can do it in a year. What's your problem with that?

What's the county's problem with Orenco? WHY WON'T THE COUNTY RETURN COMMUNICATION WITH ORENCO?

FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL!

Ron said...

An Anon wrote:

"I live in the PZ and the childish kicks he gets from "fighting the man" is costing me a bundle each and every day. ME a bundle. Not Crawford."

Let's see... the LOCSD decides to play "bait and switchy" with the California Coastal Commission over a span of four years. I write about it, and now I'M costing you a bundle... ohhhhhhh kaaaaaaaay.

Besides, these days, it REALLY doesn't matter if I live in the PZ or not, because, on my blog, I ask for donations and I get them. Now, I owe all of those beautiful, handsome, generous, kind, intelligent, well-rounded people, that all posses an excellent sense of humor, my brand of journalism.

See y'all tomorrow... I'm curious to see how/if Gordon answers my question.

(By the way Anon, go the composting toilet route that the RWQCB staff considered requiring, and you'll save a bundle.)

Peace, out.

Anonymous said...

Orenco will not use SRF funding. With out SRF funding, the WB has no power to collect funds wrongly distributed to Los Osos. Is the RWQCB forcing the county to only consider SRF funding?

Anonymous said...

To Anon @ ll:36,

Yes, the RWQCB is listening to their boss and pushing the big project. The county will only look at SRF funding and add points to the loan if the project is moved out of town.

So yes, the RWQCB is forcing the county. But the county doesn't need much forcing because they will do what the state wants to do. Get it?

Sewertoons said...

anon 10:24 AM said:

"Their advisory vote has to come first. The 218 second.

It's nice that you believe in the county's bull. But you don't have a clue what you're talking about!

Sorry anon. That is the way it will happen 218, then project choice. The 218 will require some information as to what the cost could be, but not the project.

anon 10:55:

"Orenco can do a project for less than $100 a month and can do it in a year. What's your problem with that?"

I have no problem with that, its just that Orenco hasn't factored in all of the costs, so $100 is not the real figure.

Anonymous said...

Is there any way to get the RWQCB to back off and allow a fair process?

Anonymous said...

The cost of any project option will be segregated by the project engineer (Wallace)into two categories, special benefits and general benefits. Special benefits must be paid by only those directly receiving those benefits, and this is what the 218 vote will guarantee the payment of. An example of this would be the basic sewer collection and minimal treatment and disposal systems.

The general benefits would probably be paid for by other means (revenue bonds repaid by sewer service charges) and, possibly, a wider range of people. An example of this would be a park built as part of the facility. This would generally benefit a wider group of people than just us in the PZ. Another example of a project upgrade that would be a general benefit would be a groundwater recharge system that adds cost to the basic project. This would benefit everyone in the community, and rightfully should be paid (through water rates) by all who use water.

The Prop 218 vote will only cover the cost of the special benefits. This was all outlined at the County's town hall meeting before Christmas.

They said that prior to the Prop 218 election, we will be told what their total cost estimate is for each option, and how much would be funded by the 218 share of the funding.

Lastly, the net assessments on any project alternative will not be know until grants are determined. Grants won't be considered until a project is chosen and underway with design and CEQA. Total final costs will not be known until those things are completed, either.

To me, there will have to be a large element of faith in the County process, and the estimates coming out of it. This would be no different if the CSD was developing a project. If I have this wrong, I would like to be corrected. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Sewertoons,

I guess the 218 vote will fail then. The county will make sure of that because the people will not vote unless the amount of money that they will be assessed for is on the 218. Otherwise, it's a blank check and the homeowners will know it.

The county is pulling a fast one over Los Osos and this will be exposed! Big time!

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:56:
You need to go to meetings, or at least watch the town hall meeting, and stay informed at the county web sight dedicated to Los Osos. The county is most assuredly not pulling a fast one, since they have explained the process more than once in very public meetings. Stay informed for God's sake!!

Anonymous said...

I am not concerned with the county pulling a fast one, but I am very concerned that the RWQCB will try and manipulate the process. I want STEP/STEG to get a fair evaluation. I also want any new or innovative approaches to receive consideration. The RWQCB is having difficulty moving into the new century. And they play dirty. How do we keep them from undermining the process? Just attending the meetings does not stop backroom Shenanigans. We can still be blindsided.

Anonymous said...

To anon @ 5:23 PM,

I have inside information from the county and I have watched the meetings.

Let me ask you:

If the county was truly looking at alternatives then the amount of dollars on the 218 would be very different from each other. The Orenco would be $100 or less, The Ripley would probably be around $200. And the TRI-W would be probably $400 (when all is said and done).

The TRI-W will be an energy hog, have to have full-time employees 24 hours a day, we would have many, many, hidden costs.

The county has been "pulling a fast one" since the Recall. You know that!

Anonymous said...

Dear anon 5:23,
Let's break down the Orenco plan: Directional drilling is not necessarily cheaper: 1. If you are only putting in really deep pipe, it could be cheaper. 2. If you are putting it under sidewalks, curbs and roads-it could be less expensive-but we won't be, the county will be repairing and placing the above. 3. The sewer lines need to be below any water lines and lines will be crossing each other because they will all be in the street.
I was at the Orenco and it was definitely, "$150 for the collection system....", it was not $100 for the entire project ie collection and treatment.
Ripley was not a plan. There were no actual cost analysis completed. A contractor could not bid off the Ripley Report - an alternative report with no new information that hasn't already been provided in the past 8 years. Oh yeah, didn't Ripley design the frequently failing system down by the SeaPines area? How many times has that poor neighborhood been fined? Great idea, let's use them again!

Find a copy of the EIR and read the CEQA review and site selections and project reviews and all the other requirements for the Land Use Elements that were followed and then think about re-creating all these documents and another Water Master Plan and all the other permitting fees and documentations and Coastal Commission reveiws and permits and then put the price to run the plant, any plant on top of that and then also include in the cost of land and then continue to calculate fees. Factor in all costs, including the 4 years of delay that CCLO and CASE proudly speak of- CASE, 2 year delay on the bond sale, CCLO, delay of Coastal Commission permits and 15 cases against the CSD and few of our neighbors -and may continue if things are not to "their liking" or are a "failure of the process" because things are not sunshine and roses in their world and they continue to obstruct and delay and then blame everyone else for the high costs and the poor, poor plight of their neighbors but don't really offer any tangible solutions other than NIMBY!

Let's talk about the fact that Lisa, Chuck and Steve all live within "spittin'" distance of Tri-W and maybe, just maybe they don't like the location because they are afraid of the sewer dragon! Julie doesn't Tri-W because, hmmmm....because she can't help Jeff make more money if there is a plant there. Oh yeah, Chuck will like Tri-W because the second septic tank and leach field he put in when he added bathrooms will come in handy. Hmmm, I don't think his lot is actually big enough for 2 septic tanks. Hmmmm, how will that work with a septic management plan. Will we all have to put in 2 tanks?

The conspiracy theory regarding the county and the old board and whoever doesn't agree with this board and their supporters is tiresome, childish, immature, boring, life sucking, irresponsible, not environmentally preferred, and is just... well they must be really "high".

Oh, by the way! Did anybody notice that the county is considering allowing pot dispenseries in unincorporated areas! I couldn't be happier. Get these people off their crack and meth and lets dope up with a little maryjane and mellow out. Time to move the car, the signals getting weak.
Love ya Los Osos - happy days to be had at the Sweet Springs Saloon....or new dispensery

Anonymous said...

To anon @ 9:26PM,

Your statement about Ripley with Sea Pines is bull. It wasn't Ripley who messed up there. It was the company who was hired to manage it. It had nothing to do with Ripley's plan.

Therefore, everything else you say is bias! You are not being truthful about Ripley, when you know the truth. How can anyone believe anything you say?

You said Orenco isn't necessarily cheaper, BUT IT COULD BE, COULDN'T IT?

Objectivity is obviously at a premium around here.

Anonymous said...

To Anon 10:47 regarding Ripley and Sea Pines. Ripley's own promotional material presented to Los Osos claimed that the Monarch Grove system was Step. In reality, it is gravity.

Quoting you:

"You are not being truthful about Ripley, when you know the truth. How can anyone believe anything you say?"

However you are correct in that the ponding system requires a lot of monitoring of chemical balances between different tanks much like a spa; The maintenance company skipped steps and reports were spotty. The real giveaway though was the powerfull odors being emitted by improper treatment.

So much for maintenace free ponding systems!

Anonymous said...

I like to think of Orenco as the Walmart of collection and treatment systems - one size fits all and cheap, cheap, cheap. Now on the other hand a nice tailored collection and treatment system that fits would be nice and a well really well tailored system that meets many criteria would have a lifetime double that of a "nice" collection and treatment. You get what you pay for and if we want Walmart, we'll be replacing it in a matter of years. This capitalistic throw away society doesn't want quality, we want cheap and disposable. Personally, what a waste of time and energy. You get what you pay for - a good investment saves this community money in the long run. I beleive that the county can provide us a plan that is solid and functional.

Anonymous said...

To anon @ 9:15AM,

You want quality? Then you better start looking at a different project than your TRI-W.

When the pipes break and raw sewerage flows in our streets, then I'd like to hear you talk about quality.

To sell TRI-W to the community, you all have to lie and lie about the facts. That says a lot.

TRI-W is a stupid and dangerous plan and the county better look at all options since it is us who has to pay for the project, not them, if fact, the county will make plenty of money (from us) to do the project. The more money the county spends, the more money they make.

Anonymous said...

Dude, have you never lived in a city, anywhere in the United States, that had a sewer? Pipes breaking and raw sewage flowing in the streets?!!! You have got to be kidding me. Watch out in your car, because a meteor might come crashing down through your roof and kill you. Could happen. And when you're relaxing at home, be cautious, because your TV might blow up, impedding little shards of glass all over you. Could happen.
Why don't you just fess up and admit you just don't want to pay for a sewer. You'd have a lot more credibility.

Anonymous said...

There has been one reported incident of a cell phone catching fire. Does this mean we should all give up our cell phones?

Anonymous said...

Dear Idiot Dude @11:11AM,

This gravity system in (unique) sand IS dangerous! We have earthquakes that will make it a bad situation. A few months back there was an earthquake centered just a couple of miles away. That's right, a couple miles away!

There aren't many places with the kind of sand Los Osos sits on -- get real!

The experts weighed in on this with the county (Paavo)-- so it's ridiculous for you to make light of a bad situation and a very bad project. Besides, just ask Paavo, he knows! You dumb shit!

This is 2007, and should never have to work with old outdated technology that's an energy hog and will be the most expensive plant in the U.S. Why do you insist on a "super-sized" plant for just 15,000 people? Ridiculous.

Don't you remember the pipes flooding the first couple of streets when the project first started? I don't think that the families that got flooded out would make light of this like you are.

The project has to be sustainable. Can you spell s-u-s-t-a-i-n-a-b-l-e?

Don't worry about me not wanting to pay for a sewer. I don't have to anyway.

Don't you realize that people from all over the world are watching Los Osos? In the wastewater field anyway. Most in the industry laugh at some wanting to put in this mega-monster-super-sized treatment plant for such a small town. Incredible stupidity...at the expense of so many!

Anonymous said...

Don't you realize that people from all over the world are watching Los Osos?

I believe you really believe this statement. People in Los Osos aren't even watching Los Osos.

And you call ME a dumb shit. Wow.

Churadogs said...

anonymous sez:"Anonymous said...
Don't you realize that people from all over the world are watching Los Osos?

I believe you really believe this statement. People in Los Osos aren't even watching Los Osos."

Actually, you're right about the latter, (I suspect Los ososians aren't watching) but wrong about the former. People in the "sewer world" out there ARE watching this dumbshow very carefully, with mouths agape.

Anonymous said...

Dear Dumbshit @ 7:45 AM,

Yes, the industry is watching from all over. If you don't think they're watching you are as dumb as you sound.

Anonymous said...

Why is it many of you obstructionists have foul mouths? Never learned how to debate a point without getting personal and using foul language? Might want to work on that a little.

Anonymous said...

"Don't you remember the pipes flooding the first couple of streets when the project first started?"

That was from a water pipe that was unmarked on any map and was hit accidently.

What has this to do with laying pipe for a sewer?

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:18:
I think it's outrageous you would call Ann a dumbshit! She was the writer at 7:45 (churadogs), and although you might not agree with her, calling her that is completely out of line!!

Anonymous said...

To Ann,

I didn't mean to call you a dumbshit. I didn't realize it was you. My mistake, sorry.

To: Anon @ 4:49,

I was trying to say that big gravity pipes in the sand when they break and we have flooding, it's serious. Flooding is serious and the residents found out. You were making light of gravity pipes in Los Osos sand and the experts that warn against this type of collection system in Los Osos. That' all. You missed the point completely and on purpose I'm sure because you don't want to address any facts or truth. How predictable.

It's you who I was calling a dumbshit.

Anonymous said...

Which experts are they please?

Signed,
Dumbshit

Anonymous said...

Dear Dumbshit,

Ask Paavo, he met with them. He's knows!

Anonymous said...

anon 9:33pm,

I guess that you don't know their names or the companys/organizations that they represent. Wish you could have answered the question.

Signed,
Dumbshit

Anonymous said...

Dear Dumbshit,

I do know the names, but will not share. You can ask Paavo if you want. We know that he knows.

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Dear anon 1:04,

If you were secure that these people were experts, wouldn't you want to mention who they are? Your reticence makes no sense.

Dumbshit

Anonymous said...

I am secure about the experts being the top experts. Many experts. You're kidding yourself about your silly, poorly planned Tri-W project. You just want to force people out of their homes so your friends and you can get rich.