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Wednesday, January 24, 2007

More from the RWQCB’s Presentation of “Torquemada’s Mad Hatter Tea Party & Auto-de-fe Public Beheading & Traveling CDO Show”

The following texts were read into the record by Los Osos CDO recipient Bill Moylan at the January 22 continuation of the CDO hearings. Naturally, everything he had to say to the RWQCB was ignored utterly.

Which was a real shame since Part II placed a real choice and a challenge directly before them.

One of the definitions of Evil is to deliberately do harm to someone when you KNOW the pain you’re inflicting is pointless and that you have other less harmful choices available that would accomplish the same task, yet refuse to take that path. Come to think of it, that’s also a pretty good definition of what makes a sadist a sadist.

Part I



The Specious Logic of the Water Board
The burden of proof lies with the Water Board as stated in the California Evidence Code, section 520, which states, “The party claiming that a person is guilty of crime or wrongdoing has the burden of proof on that issue.”
Everyone in Los Osos and everyone in this room knows that not every septic tank in the Prohibition Zone contributes to the degradation of the state’s water. And yet the Water Board uses specious logic to prove its point. Here is the Water Board’s specious logic: A) Septic systems in the Los Osos Prohibition Zone pollute the state’s water. B) William and Beverley live in the Prohibition Zone and they have a septic system. C) Therefore, William and Beverley’s septic system pollutes the state’s water. Any logician will tell you that you cannot conclude that William and Beverley’s septic is polluting because the premise that septic systems in Los Osos pollute is erroneous: not all septic systems in the Prohibition Zone pollute. And I believe that my septic system does not pollute the state’s water.

Any governing body can create an arbitrary zone. The mere creation of a zone does not make it legitimate. For argument’s sake, I will create a zone where degradation is occurring. This zone is the table that the members of the Water Board are sitting at and I will call it the “board zone.” This zone is being degraded because there are coffee stains on the table and there are indentations on the edge of the table. Not only that, I declare that anyone sitting at this table is responsible for the degradation of the table. Since the members of the water board are seated in the “board zone”, they are all in violation. Now, if you do not want to be in violation, you must provide me with evidence that you are not in violation. But how can you do that, since you are sitting there. Therefore, you must stop sitting at that table if you do not want to be in violation.

You see, members, you can provide me with evidence that sitting at that table is harmless, or that you are very careful with your coffee, or that you have never dented the ends of the table, or that you have no other table to sit at, or that other people sit at the table longer than you do. It does not matter what you say. If you are at sitting at the table you are guilty. It does not matter that I have no direct evidence that you, as an individual, are damaging the table. I do not have to prove anything because you are in violation of sitting there.



What does matter is that you are in the board zone, ergo you are in violation. I don’t have to prove anything because I have created a zone. Science does not matter, logic does not matter, reason does not matter. And proof does not matter. What a beautiful concept, but specious.

If the premise for creating a “zone” is erroneous, then whatever conclusion follows the premise is also erroneous. The premise that the Water Board is using is that all septic systems in the Prohibition Zone are polluting, and that premise is erroneous.



Part II




CLOSING STATEMENT


I could talk about how our due process has been deliberately restricted so we could not mount a complete defense. I could talk about how the Water Board has spurned the California evidence code or how the Water Board has no site specific evidence for our home. I could talk about the infringement of the 8th and 14th amendments of the U.S. Constitution that this Board exhibits. I could mention the subtle and not so subtle arrogance displayed by the Water Board and how unbecoming that behavior is. I could talk about the repeated gender discrimination in this proceeding.

I could talk about those matters but I would be wasting my time, for the water board staff and certain board members have freely exhibited their disdain for the defendants, no matter how eloquent or truthful or compelling the defendant’s testimony. I could talk about how science does not matter with the Water Board, for Dr. Wickham’s expert scientific testimony was dismissed by Mr. Brigg’s, who said, “we don’t agree with Dr. Wickham’s opinions.” Mr. Cleath’s expert testimony, which said that pumping every septic tank in Los Osos would not lower the nitrates in the aquifer, was also dismissed. The Board has decided that every homeowner in the Prohibition Zone will pump, regardless of the need. Logic does not matter, for we have seen how logic for the boundaries of the Prohibition Zone is non-existent and arbitrary. Reason also gets short shrift from the Water Board, because the reason for having the Prohibition Zone in the first place was based on nitrate test results from illegal wells as stated in evidence submitted by Bruce and Antoinette Payne and posted on November 17, 2006.

So, what does matter? What does matter is that the health of the original 45 proposed CDO recipients has failed over the past year. What does matter is that Bruce Payne was blinded in his right eye from the stress of this CDO process, as verified by his eye doctor. What does matter is that John Mortara was rushed to the hospital three times in January and February last year from the stress of this CDO process and has since had a pacemaker implanted in his chest. What does matter is that Alan Martyn had to have his blood pressure and diabetes constantly monitored in the year 2006 from the stress of this process. And what does matter is that my wife has had to have infusions every eight weeks to tame her auto immune disease that resurged from the stress of this process; an auto-immune disease that was in remission nearly a full year before the first Water Board notice arrived. These infusions, which cost $7600 each, are needed so she can lead a mostly normal life.

What does matter is that the Water Board has been asked to stop this process many times by others and me over this last year and has ignored our pleadings. What does matter is that members of the Water Board prosecution team were informed many times last year that people were suffering physically, emotionally, and spiritually from this CDO process, and that the Water Board had an obligation to help the people of Los Osos and not hurt them, and those pleadings were ignored. What does matter is that suggestions on how to inform the entire Los Osos community without hurting the community were offered by me and others and that these suggestions were disregarded.

What matters now is that these CDO’s are rescinded now, that no more are issued, and that a community outreach program is initiated by the Water Board now. What matters now is that no more people have to suffer from high blood pressure, or surgical procedures directly related to stress, or that auto-immune diseases of possible future CDO recipients are not activated by the threat of $1000 or $5000 a day fines. What matters now is that this Water Board realizes that the health and safety of innocent citizens are not just related to clean water but to how well governing bodies relate to the people they represent. What matters now is that clean water and good relations can both be achieved if the Water Board wills it. What matters now is that the Water Board stops issuing these CDO’s and exhibits the courage to work with the people of Los Osos. What matters now, is that the Water Board thinks about how their future actions could benefit the people of Los Osos, and then act in a beneficial way.

117 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ann, you still pait your pictures with the broad strokes of a Rush Linbaugh. Lot's of drama, not all together based on facts!

I also have high blood pressure, but not from the CDO proceedings. I lay my condition directly on the steps of the damn CSD who stopped the very legal sewer project, financially ham-strung the District and still have the gall to blame everyone but themselves.

It's not the Water Boards, it's our own leaders who have caused every bit of the stress related problems in the community. I've bought 2 homes over the years from Alan Martyn and have absolutely no sympathy for him. He has created his own problems.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:30 -c We need to have sympathy for all who are treated this way regardless of how we got here. I will sympathize with you if and when you get a CDO.

Attorney said...

I want the LOCSD board of directors to go to JAIL. They have cost the community a fortune. Let them ake Calhoun with them.

Anonymous said...

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

attorney said...

To anon (locsd lover) 10:38 1/24/07.

Tell your "eye for an eye, blinding the world" to someone who rapes you, your wife, or your child. There is a lot to say for justice.

Clear Thinking said...

The Moylans make good points for criminal poluters. These people will do anything to avoid consequences of their actions. "If you do the crime, do the time." Criminals always blame everyone else for THEIR actions. ALWAYS when the sentence is pronounced!

Anonymous said...

The Moylans, with or without the hyphen, are good, well meaning people. They would appear more sincere if it were not for the delivery drama. Hell, I OBJECT too, but I'm not going to call the Water Board a bunch of corrupt crooks. The real crooks are the CSD BOD who stopped the sewer project and lied to us all about some mystical plan. We were taken for a dream filled ride by Lisa and Julie. They threw the District's funds away and are still blaming everyone else for the mess created since the recall.

Hell yes I OBJECT! I don't like my family being put in front of the RWQCB any more than the Moylans, but damnit, the RWQCB is not the crooks, it's our own fault for electing a group of incompetent egotists with not one real plan on how to build a sewer or even where to put it within the jurisdiction they had to operate in. They flat out lied and stole our tax dollars!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 3:51PM, YOU ARE SOOOOOOOO RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

Moylens-Schmoylens. The Water Board has had it with all the assorted and sundry bullshit shoveled out by Lisa, Julie and cohorts. That includes Gail.

The Water Board has put up with Los Osos for 30 years! ENOUGH!!!!!!!

The real crooks here are the horse's asses who thought they could change the laws and regulations. GUESS WHAT, Los Osos? WE have to ABIDE by the RULES just like EVERYBODY ELSE!

We have been hoodwinked by all the crappola about: We won't lose the SRF! We won't be fined! They don't have the manpower to enforce.(Julie's stance) We have a plan! We will move the sewer and it will only cost $100 per month!

What a crock of crap!

Ann, why the hell don't you ask Lisa, Julie, Gail, about all of the above?

Or has YOUR brain been befuddled by all the nitrates, too?

Snowy Plover said...

Boy there are some sick sad suckas posting here these days...

FBLeG said...

Since there seems to be overwhelming support from the various "Anonymouses" above for the actions of the RWQCB would you all save me and the other taxpayers of the state some money and contact the RWQCB with a request for an expedited CDO hearing for your PZ property? After you relinquish your property rights and right to appeal by quickly signing onto the CAO settlement agreement in the interest of expediency, the board can begin to focus on those miscreants who believe in due process, effective government, property rights and minimal intrusion of government into their private lives.

And, when you get your CDO, please post a copy of it, so we can congratulate and thank you for the taxpayer money saved and your positive role in helping the community get through this trying time.

Lastly, I'm glad to have Bev and Bill as Los Osos neighbors of such high integrity.

Anonymous said...

fbleg 10:30 PM

You bring up a very good point. Since the CSD, led by Ms.Schicker, is so adament about fighting the RWQCB, then she should offer to have her property be assigned the next CDO. Then she could fight for us and we could see what a wonderful community leader she is and has been.

Churadogs said...

Anonymous sez:"It's not the Water Boards, it's our own leaders who have caused every bit of the stress related problems in the community."

The CSD did not issue CDO's, the CSD did not testify before the RWQCB that the "reason" for the CDO's of pump, inspect, repair would have NO effect on the groundwater, even though that was the given reason for issuing the CDO in the first place. The CSD did not keep changing the CDO rules, language, move the goal posts, morph everything until the recipients had no clue what they were suppose to be doing. (I gather that you not only are not a CDO recipient but you never bothered to attend any of the CDO recipient meetings or track each and every change the RWQCB has put these people through. Were you at the hearing when evidence was submitted that showed that the staff sent out time sensitive material using a postal meter that was a year out of date? ??? That's the kind of stuff that has so battered your neighbors, you know, the people who were the "colatteral damage" end result of emails to Briggs to "fine the CSD out of existence?" And so forth and so on.

Someone calling him/herself "Attorney said...
I want the LOCSD board of directors to go to JAIL. They have cost the community a fortune. Let them ake Calhoun with them.

9:44 AM, January 24, 2007 "

If you are, indeed, an attorney, I look forward to your case being filed. It will, indeed, be an interesting case. When you file it, do send me and Ron Crawford a copy of the brief and we'll post it so the whole community can see what laws you'll be basing the case on. And since you mention "jail," then wouldn't you be dealing with, what? felonies? Crimes? (not civil matters?)

another Anonymous sez:"They threw the District's funds away and are still blaming everyone else for the mess created since the recall."

Gosh, you forgot to mention the millions the previous Board pounded into the ground before the recall election, money they DID NOT HAVE TO POUND INTO THE GROUND.

"FBLeG said...
Since there seems to be overwhelming support from the various "Anonymouses" above for the actions of the RWQCB would you all save me and the other taxpayers of the state some money and contact the RWQCB with a request for an expedited CDO hearing for your PZ property? After you relinquish your property rights and right to appeal by quickly signing onto the CAO settlement agreement in the interest of expediency, the board can begin to focus on those miscreants who believe in due process, effective government, property rights and minimal intrusion of government into their private lives.

And, when you get your CDO, please post a copy of it, so we can congratulate and thank you for the taxpayer money saved and your positive role in helping the community get through this trying time.

Lastly, I'm glad to have Bev and Bill as Los Osos neighbors of such high integrity.

Indeed. Of the furious people posting here, I urge you to contact the RWQCB and have them send you a copy of the CAO (aka the "settlement agreement." Ask to get your name and property on the next batch of CDOs, offer to sign the CAO settlement agreement. (It's not clear whether Reed Sato can offer that particular document to people BEFORE they are issued CDO's first. You need to find out) DO NOT request or require that any of your rights be considered, under the laws under which the RWQCB is operating. If necessary, you can sign an additional agreement stating that you agree to waive all your rights, including the right of any appeals. You can also gibve the Board your 218 proxy vote, so THEY can vote for you. I would urge you to get your friends and neighbors to do the same. That is your right under the laws. nobody's stopping you.

In the meantime, I will support the Moylans and the other Los Osos 45 in their process and appeals because I believe in good old Sir Thomas Moore's observation in Robert Bolt's play, "A Man For all Seasons." Replying to his son-in-law who would cut down all laws to "get after the Devil?"
Says More: "Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you -- where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast --man's laws, not God's -- and if you cut them down -- and yor'rejust the man to do it -- d'you really thin you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own saftey's sake."

I would also add this proceedure of appeal and going into a "real court" is something that is vital for the sake of the RWQCB as well, since if they are abusing the law and abusing the rules, abusing citizens for political purposes, for purposes of electioneering, it is they who will pay dearly in Zero Credibility, all of which will weaken their vital role in the System.

What they are doing here is sooooo bad, so unnecessary, so pointless, that it will not serve them well in the long run.

They have some very real choices to make here and I can only wish they had the courage to understand what the long-term ramifications of what they are doing and have done here here will be to their future.

The CDO's are a tip of the iceberg here, that's what so many of you apparetnly fail to understand. The record of the RWQCB with Riger Briggs at the helm has a dismal record in this county. The present CDO mess just compounds that dismal history. Further at risk is the whole Basin Plan, state-wide AB885, a whole raft of water issues all of which depend on a "clean," COMPETENT, HONEST regulatory agency.

Anonymous said...

And once again not a shred of responsibility taken or given to the Schicker/Tacker CSD that put this community in harms way, or the people who voted (by way of the recall) for these CDO's; lost SRF loan; bankruptcy; county takeover of the project and potential financial ruin for every property owner in the PZ.

Anonymous said...

Ann,

What to base a case upon when prosecuting Lisa, Julie, Chuck, Steve and John?

How about the fact that they violated Government and Penal codes by illegally spending over $1,400,000 in property taxes and assessment bond money on attorneys and crappy consultants? They spent the money not on what it was collected for (the Fire Fee and the Bond), but purposely diverted the money to pay their cronies.

AND YET YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND THE INDEFENSIBLE! SHAME!!!!!!!

Nope, the CSD 5's moronic decisions have resulted in the RWQCB having to enforce the law by issuing CDO's and CAO's. No other way to paint this picture Ann. Stop Blogging your crap as it STINKS !

Anonymous said...

Anon "It Stinks" perhaps you would enlighten us on exactly which penal codes were broken?
Previous posting here have explored this issue in depth, I do believe that the concensus was that at worst there may have been a violation of the Brown Act.
I am sure the Brown Act police are all over it.
As far as the water board enforcing the clean water act surly there could be other ways.

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty sure gifting public funds to your political cronies (legal "settlements" anyone?) is against the law.

I doubt anyone here is qualified to quote the state or federal penal codes covering illegal payoffs, but if laws have been broken, someone's going to jail.

I'm sure we'll hear the "fat lady singing" for some of these idiots once the forensic audits are completed and the State AG is finished investigating.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:21

Codes violated?

Read California Government Codes 6503.1.(a).

Read Californai Penal Code sections 424, 425

The actions of the CSD-5 in spending dedicated tax revenues and bond payment revenues on costs other than what it was collected for (fire services & paying the bond) is a FELONY.

I have attached a fact sheet from a earlier blog (written by past director Legro)

"historical FACT described by the CSD's own DOCUMENTATION. The County filed a lawsuit on this very issue.

FACT: the CSD collected about $1,600,000 in property taxes and bond assessment payments in April of 2006.

FACT: of the $1.6 million collected, $1,470,000 was restricted to be exclusively used to pay for the CDF fire fee ($759,000) and the 2001 bond assessment payment ($715,000).

FACT: the collected revenues were entirely deposited account 1012, Operations. No revenues were deposited in any other account.

FACT: By June 4, 2006, the CSD had less than $500,000 in account 1012. The CSD had spent the lion-share of the April tax proceeds on attorneys and unbudgeted consultant fees.

FACT: On June 5, 2006, the board secretly directed Dan Blesky to withdrawal $760,000 out of the LAIF account 1011, to be used to pay the CDF fire fee. This transfer is documented by a receipt from the LAIF Bank, which references the directive of the CSD board and the purpose of the withdrawal. Note: the LAIF account 1011 exclusively contained the CSD’s entire water department and fire Department RESERVES (totaling $816,000).

FACT: the CSD contacted the Bank of New York in early August of 2006 to inform them that the CSD did not have the bond payment revenue need to make the September 6, 2006 bond payment of $715,000.

FACT: in order to make the payment and avoid a default, the Bank allowed the CSD to use $716,000 of the $1,167,000 in the Bank of New York Wastewater Project Trust Fund, account #1017, with the understanding that the money was loaned for a period of not more than 1 year.

FACT: in both cases where the board decided to borrow money, the CSD board did not inform the public by agenizing (either in open or closed sessions) their intent to borrow money, as required by law. The public was not aware of or allowed to participate in the board’s decision to borrow money.

FACT: the board has committed the taxpayer (you) to repay $1,475,000 in loans even though they HAD the money in hand on April 16 to pay the CDF fire Fee and the bond payment. In essence, the board has forced the taxpayer (you) to pay the CDF fire fee and the bond payment TWICE."

Still confused? Then read the CSD's own documentation. I have. What Mr. Legro states as facts is true.

Anonymous said...

The "gifts" are being addressed through the TaxPayers Watch suits against each of the five individuals for payments to the fives personal lawyers prior to the recall. The payments were made from District Funds after the five were then in office. That's called misuse of public funds. Look for those law suits coming in March.

Anonymous said...

Dear Ann,

Some Pandora bloggers don't like what you have to say and want you to stop. They've flooded YOUR blog site to try to stop the truth from getting out.

Yes, the RWQCB is evil, but please add Pandora and Richard LeGros and Jerry Gregory and Sam Blakesleee among many others.

Where was Bruce Gibson, Sam Blakeslee, or any county officials at the CDO hearings? If they cared about the voters and homeowners, they would be there to tell the RWQCB to back off. But, they weren't there, which shows that they are behind the RWQCB and their CDO's to insure to get their 218 vote. The RWQCB's actions clearly show that they want to force the Tri-W/gravity sewer on Los Osos. Of course, just some homeowners in L.O. will have to pay.

Anonymous said...

I don't even know Pandora, but I sure know the RWQCB is not "EVIL".

Try looking at what got us to this point, it was the deliberate actions of that CSD BOD!

You are correct, we homeowners will be paying. Renters will also through dramatically increased rents to cover the property owners additional costs. The free ride is about over, we all will get to pay soon! Thanks to the criminals who stopped the sewer!

Anonymous said...

To Anon above:

The criminals are the ones who started the sewer right before the election! The criminals are Pandora, Richard LeGros, Stan, Gordon, and Bruce Buel for starting the sewer without our Proposition 218 vote. They hid our right to vote. They are the criminals.

The RWQCB are indeed evil because the CDO's don't do a thing to clean water. The CDO's are a guarantee to a yes vote on 218 and nothing more. They are in on Pandora's plot to take homes away from families in Los Osos.

Anonymous said...

Right on anon 6:28. Much of this could have been avoided if the old board had listened to MANY in the community who begged them NOT to start the project. No wonder the new board was somewhat reckless..that's the Los Osos CSD tradition! Both boards are lame in my opinion. The first one tried to deliver by making a whole lot of people MAD and the new board is doing the same freaking thing! I'm no psychologist but that's how it looks to me. You get bees with honey folks not with vinegar! As far as any "plot" goes I think that's pushing it a bit. No plots, just DUMB CSD boards. Dumb and dumber!

Anonymous said...

To All:

The simple fact is that the county permitted septic tanks after 83-13. They should be taken to court. They are the guilty ones -- not the homeowners -- most homeowners were not informed that they were illegally discharging. The people were NEVER informed of this by the county, realtors or the RWQCB. The county is still permitting septics!!

The county should be paying for the sewer. We need to take legal action against the county A.S.A.P.

Anonymous said...

Yes, there is a plot. Pandora, Roger Briggs and the county are all part of it.

If Pandora had waited until a sewer was built by the county BEFORE forming a "local government" we wouldn't be in this spot. Pandora and company knew they were taking the project off the county's hands and placing the entire cost onto the people in the PZ rather than county wide taxpayers (as it should have been for a large public works project.)

Why did she do that? Why did Pandora want Los Osos residents to pay for a project rather than the county? Is this why the county kisses her butt? Do they owe her a big "thank you"?

Can someone answer this?

Anonymous said...

Yes, please. Someone please answer the above question. I have been wondering for a long time what's in it for Pandora. I also should mention that one time, several years ago, I was at an open house (house for sale) in Los Osos. Roger Briggs was there for some reason and I heard him say to prospective buyers that "he would never buy a house in Los Osos." I also heard the hosting realtor say "Would you please leave" to him and he said to her "I'm going to shut you down." This is a true story. At the time I thought it was very weird but in retrospect it is kind of interesting.

Anonymous said...

Anon Above:

That's a mind-blowing little story you tell above about R. Briggs. It just proves the point that (a) Briggs is criminally insane AND liable AND a coward on the lam, AND (b) he's been out to get us for a long, long time!

If he is not evil, then neither is Hannibal Lector.

Churadogs said...

Anonymous sez:"As far as any "plot" goes I think that's pushing it a bit. No plots, just DUMB CSD boards. Dumb and dumber!"

You need to ask yourself some questions: Was SRF Loan legally written, i.e. using due dilligence, "i's" dotted, "t's" crossed, to send an unsecured loan to a community on the brink of a recall? IF -- and I use capital letters -- If it was not, then who has a vested interest in seeing that NOBODY asks any questions about how that loan (or all the SRF loans) have being administered?

Exactly when was the SRF contract breached? And who did the breaching?

The PZ has never been scientifically defensible. Politcally expedient, yes, scientifically? No, and especially not as more and better info came in over the years. Who prevented a re-opening of the Basin Plan to take another look at the issue? WHo refused to force the county and then the CSD to turnkey Resolution 83=12, the Septic Management District? Who permitted over 1,000 to be built in the PZ AFTER resolution 83=13? Who has a vested interest in making sure NOBODY gets this issue to court to ask questions under oath?

Regarding the CDOs? Who has a vested interest in seeing that NO evidence will be admitted that might possibly contradict the assertions being made by Briggs & the RWQCB? Who has a vested interest in seeing that nobody takes the process of the CDOs to court to ask whether they are a proper use of regulatory power or are an abuse of that power?

You want "plots," there's just a few questions that you might want to mull over. Those questions go way beyond pro-Tri W or anti-TriW. THey go to the heart of a PROCESS that has broken down through incompetence, laziness, indifference, fear of exposure, CYA scrambling. You name it.

As always, follow the money, follow the vested interests.

Anonymous said...

anon 7:17pm said
"If Pandora had waited until a sewer was built by the county BEFORE forming a "local government" we wouldn't be in this spot."

WOW!! Who knew Pandora had so much power!! I thought the CITIZENS of Los Osos were taking the project AWAY from the County because the County WWTF was going to be placed right next to the middle school and they were going to use (therefore store) dangerous chlorine gas at the plant!

Sewertoons said...

Ann says:
"Was SRF Loan legally written, i.e. using due dilligence, "i's" dotted, "t's" crossed, to send an unsecured loan to a community on the brink of a recall? IF -- and I use capital letters -- If it was not, then who has a vested interest in seeing that NOBODY asks any questions about how that loan (or all the SRF loans) have being administered?"

Why did the present board (excluding Joe) then spend as much of that money as they could on lawyers before those funds were frozen? That would be a good question to ask!

Anonymous said...

Pandora does have all the power for some strange reason.

How can Pandora get away with asking the RWQCB to fine Los Osos yet work for the county at the same time?? Quite unethical to say the least. See today's Tribune.

Pandora has to live, shop and eat in a place where people know what she's done to them. She'll never feel comfortable. She's done wrong. She has to live with what she's done and continues to do. Yes, she pulls all the strings.

Stop blaming the CSD board for the mistakes of the recalled board. The recalled board started a project before the election. The recalled board didn't have our legal right to vote on a 218. The recalled board knew the loan was in question yet started work early anyway.

Anonymous said...

What's really funny about all this Pandora talk is that she hasn't been involved in ANY sewer business since shortly after the recall. Everyone here is assigning way too much power to someone who is literally no longer involved with the project on any level.

Believe it, don't believe it, but you have no idea how stupid it makes everyone sound to continue demonizing her for current developments.

Anonymous said...

Pandora is a mean, wicked, viscious BITCH. She only APPEARS to be a sweet person when it's good for her PR BULLSHIT. She personally e-mailed & called the CCRWQCB, Roger Briggs specifically, to fine LOS OSOS OUT OF EXISTANCE. Are those the TRAITS of a good civic minded member of a Community? She is EVIL PERSONIFIED & SHOULD BE TARRED & FEATHERED.

Anonymous said...

What is in today's Tribune about Pandora?

Anonymous said...

anon 9:44,

"Viscious" is correctly spelled vicious.

"EXISTANCE" is correctly spelled existence.

Your comments will appear more professional!

Anonymous said...

Bashing Pandora does not deflect any of the town's ire at Julie and Lisa. Pandora has not been involved politically for a long time.

Seems to me most of you are stuck in some sort of time warp, hailing Ron Crawford like any of his stuff is current(NOT); and acting like Pandora has untold power. (NOT)

The real villians are Julie, Lisa and Gail.

Anonymous said...

Didn't see anything about or by Pandora in the Tribune today, Friday 1/26/2007.

Why is anyone still thinking Pandora has anything to do with the CSD and especially why the CSD failed so miserably? Not her fault, it is the fault of Lisa, Julie and Gail!

Anonymous said...

There was blurb in the local section that Bruce Gibson re-appointed several people to various County committees.

Pandora has been the District 2 appointee to the County Parks and Rec Committee for several years. It is a volunteer (unpaid) position.

The level of Pandora's "power" within County or local politics continues to be greatly exaggerated. She's been (happily) out of the game for quite some time, despite what certain people would have everyone think.

Anonymous said...

To add on, the potential of fines has been in place for a long time. Pandora has nothing to do with why we are being fined and CDO'ed. Shift the focus people - trying to create revisionist history is futile and is losing steam, that's why Gail and Lisa are on their "New and Improved Mission" to change/amend the basin plan. They don't want to be tied anymore to the past failures of the CSD and the decisions. They are running and jumping onto a different train to try to separate themselves from the current direction because they recognize how much damage has been done in the past year and they need to dis-associate themselves from it. Just watch and listen to what they are saying and doing and you can recognize the flight onto something even more distracting.

The board was told back after their negotiations, what they would need to do to continue a project - Rob Miller did a long lengthy report as to what would be required for this town to go step/steg - why didn't they pursue it? Why did they let Blesky dump all the contractors? Why didn't they utilize what they could of what was left?

Start asking yourselves the questions that are real and just sit back and watch the show - it's going to get terrifying if our CSD continues the imaginary, unreal, fraudulent and misinformed "fight" they seem to believe they are fighting. What they don't realize, is they have stolen issues that are important and valuable to me and have tossed them around as "causes" to stand behind ie the environment and community and a "sustainable" lifestyle and have twisted them to the point of being unrecognizable and "they" know it.

Many, many people know they were taken on a ride and want to get off and no one else is driving but our mis-informed selves.

Mike Green said...

The word.
"Many, many people know they were taken on a ride and want to get off and no one else is driving but our mis-informed selves."

Exactitude!

Anonymous said...

Yeah, misinformed is right. The first CSD board didn't make it clear and INFORM US that the direction they were heading (not the one we voted for) was going to be an expensive sludge factory. By the time we found out they wouldn't even listen to us about out of town. No..........gotta have "it" in town, regardless of whether or not it is very environmentally sustainable, low-impact, earthen ponds. That's what I voted for. By the way those ponds attract a wide variety of nice wildlife, including birds, that would have complimented the National Estuary very nicely. What a crock. When their plan went south they should have changed directions but no...............for some reason we had to keep it in town. What is that reason? Please tell me what makes sense as I am completely baffled why they insisted and pushed forward a treatment plant that was inappropriate when it was environmentally preferred out of town. Please someone tell me why!

Anonymous said...

Gosh, to build the most expensive treatment plant in the country per capita and it still doesn't help any problem we may have. They will still have to haul sludge away. There is not one good reason for Tri-W and gravity. No good reason to place this shit factory on viewshed property, next to our community center, library, and church. I believe whoever came up with this is nuts. Really, truly nuts!

Well, let's ask our town's leaders who decided to put a treatment plant there. Richard? Pandora? Gordon? CAN ANYONE OF YOU GIVE US AN ANSWER??

Anonymous said...

Idiot! There will be sludge no matter which system is finally built. There is no perfect complete digester of human shit! Just complete asses who keep pouring it out!

Thr Tri-W Waste Water Treatment Facility was and will be, one of the most state of the art systems and would generate less sludge than a ponding system.

Churadogs said...

Sewertoons sez:"Why did the present board (excluding Joe) then spend as much of that money as they could on lawyers before those funds were frozen? That would be a good question to ask!"

It's not clear to me what lawyers you're talking about. Before the new board members were even sworn in, they faced legal fees to defend Measure B, a case which the previous board had started and now under law they were obliged to 'defend", they settled (again) the measure B case the old board had brought to block the vote on measure B (that cost a bundle in order to save an even worse court-mandated bundle) and if memory serves, there was also immediate breach of contract problems when that second payment of the SRF was suddenly witheld while everyone was in "contractually legal90 day stand-down mode" (still curious as to just who gave the order for that), in short, there were a whole bunch of legal problems that appeared almost immediately and certainly after the SRF plug was pulled.

some anonymouses say:

"What's really funny about all this Pandora talk is that she hasn't been involved in ANY sewer business since shortly after the recall. Everyone here is assigning way too much power to someone who is literally no longer involved with the project on any level.

Believe it, don't believe it, but you have no idea how stupid it makes everyone sound to continue demonizing her for current developments."

and

"Pandora is a mean, wicked . . ."

and

"The real villians are Julie, Lisa and Gail."

And so forth. The hunt for demons is on and is totally distracting. What everyone needs to be focused on is the SYSTEM, the PROCESS, and what went awry and why. Nobody woke up one day and said, "Gosh, let me think of some way to totally ruin Los Osos because I'm an evil person, heh-heh." Instead, you're looking at a step by step process that got off track early and was never put right. Incompetence, undue pressure, irrational, unreasonable TSOs, bad science, no science, hidden agendas, laziness, anger, revenge, fear, all the demon human failures, bad advice, fraud, money, mo' money, CYA motivation, careers at risk, the list goes on and on.

Some posters wish to demonize Ron Crawford, but forget that he has cached the offical documents on his blogsite. If you question his "opinion," go read the Official Document for yourself. Some posters wish to demonize me, the old shoot the messenger. Fine, but do yourself a favor and at least go back to read what I've written about this PROCESS over the years. That's where the real problems lies. That and community apathy. Too many people who decided to just sit on the fence and watch the train head off the cliff. All the players are here, Regulators who failed to regulate, elected officials who took some key fatal steps, a system that failed, apathetic citizens who didn't care enough to go find out what was happening and make sure the Process stayed on track.

All these key junctions are still in place and history will repeat itself unless everyone pays attention, and that includes taking a look at process, not personalities.

Anonymous sez:"The board was told back after their negotiations, what they would need to do to continue a project - Rob Miller did a long lengthy report as to what would be required for this town to go step/steg - why didn't they pursue it? Why did they let Blesky dump all the contractors? Why didn't they utilize what they could of what was left?"

Do you remember the "negotiations" that were being done during the great October compromise? How everything was moving towards putting the contractors back to work laying collection pipe while work went ahead on finding a site out of town and the STATE -- not the CSD -- put the final "poison pill" regarding bonding, kinowing full well that at that point the CSD couldn't find such bonding and so would have to say No. The contractors were standing by, ready to roll, the CSD was ready to compromise and end up with a gravity system with some sort of treatment outside of town, they would have two years to make it work, a concept originally given Darrin Polhemus qualified o.k. as "doable," and if it failed, Tri W would simply be back on the tble. But the STATE insisted on that poison pill. Why?

The tragedy here is that all of this was avoidable if everyone had not lost their marbles. Roger Briggs didn't have to order CDOs. His Mad Pumping Scheme had all the earmarks of something hastily and sloppily thrown together -- not in the least thought out or justified except as "punishment" and threat & etc. Dead giveaway that the RWQCB wasn't acting rationally. Still isn't. No, none of this had to happen. A series of bad judgement calls by a whole bunch of "officials" caused this train wreck. Once again, you're looking at a System that failed, piece by piece, because there were no checks or balances or safety net. One small example: The State Water Board had a complete no-brainer on their hands: Town facing a recall, withould SRF funds until the community decides the elction. Simple. They didn't do that. Why not? What compelled them to not only issue those funds but issued funds that were increased by millions on the say-so of board members who were facing recall? That simply defies "due dilligence." Again, WHY? What was driving that desperate engine?

And how were these linkages forged. Becasue, make no mistake, like a train, each of these players is linked to the other players and each decision they make impacts the "car" hooked to them.

Take a look at the videotape of the late Rose Bowker stating that the CSD didn't have enough scientific/geologic information to make a good/sound decision about a disposal site and Bruce Buel said, yes, I know but we have to decide tonight because of the TSO deadlines, and ask yourself, WHO INVENTED THIS COCKAMAMIE 'DECISION FIRST -- SCIENCE LATER' WAY OF BUILDING A WASTEWATER SYSTEM? In that small exchange is write the whole insane process gone awry.

Anonymous said...

Very good Ann. Your comments are very educational. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Rubbish as usual Ann

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 6:54AM:

There were always options for Los Osos. What about clusters? It works in other places in L.O., also Step is preferred, and a lot more cost effective. You are the idiot for standing by Tri-W no matter what. You are the idiot if you think L.O. will be fooled again and will vote for this on a 218. It's not going to happen!

Anonymous said...

Ann,

Tell us EXACTLY what the process is.

Not what you THINK the process is, but EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO REALIZE A WASTE WATER PROJECT.

Until you answer this question, your comments about "process" not being followed are full of crap.

Anonymous said...

Well, for starters, isn't a 218 vote part of the process? AB2701 and the county are requiring it. Should have been done a long time ago.

Anonymous said...

"You are the idiot if you think L.O. will be fooled again and will vote for this on a 218. It's not going to happen!"

Well, if it doesn't happen, you might as well start making plans to live elsewhere. Then who will be the idiot?

Anonymous said...

I think the 218 will go through without any problem especially since it's a property owners vote. We've had it! Vote yes on the 218!

Anonymous said...

We have to support the county and the 218 at this point. Anon above is right about packing our bags if we don't assess ourselves. I don't know about anyone else but this is my home and I've nowhere else to go. Yes, they have frightened me into submission in a way but the stakes are too high now. I don't want to play anymore!

Anonymous said...

My wife and I are also scared. All the fighting has only accomplished making the monthly bill beyond what elders will be able to pay.

Anonymous said...

"I don't want to play anymore."

I couldn't agree more. There is a very small minority in the community, the 15 or so you see attend CSD meetings anymore, who are hell-bent on obstructing any sewer here. They have bragged that they can delay a sewer another 30 years. And they are mostly renters or out-of-towners (see: Richard Margetson). Don't you believe it. The state is through playing games as you say with this community. These people can demonize the powers that be all they want. The jig is up. The county is doing everything they can to include this community, even though they need not. If the state ever gets this project, see ya later to the Los Osos we all know. (Of course the obstructionists will laugh at this and say "bring it on." But look where all their bravado has gotten them. Their beloved $100.00 per month, no lost SRF loan; no personal CDO's squashed like bugs on a windshield by the powers that be).

Ron said...

An Anon wrote:

"Pandora has nothing to do with why we are being fined and CDO'ed."

Other than the fact that she sold a plan to the community in 1998 that she knew never going to work, then chased it for two years (and Briggs, who also knew it was never going to work, allowed her to chase it. You CDOers should bring that up about fifty times every CDO meeting... you should start every sentence at those meetings with something like, "Well, when Briggs wasted those two years...," or, "After Briggs wasted those two years...," or, "Before Briggs wasted those two years... ." Just keep saying that over, and over, and over again. They have no response at all to that statement. None. You have them, big time, there), then, after her plan flamed out in late 2000, just like a bunch a water quality professionals, including the RWQCB, predicted before the election that formed the CSD on the back of her deeply flawed "Community Plan" (aka, "The Ponds of Avalon," or, as radio show host, Dave Congalton, called it back in the day, "Pandoraland"), she then told the Coastal Commission, as a CSD Director AND as a County Parks Commissioner (a very important detail in this ENTIRE story), that there was a "strongly held community value" in Los Osos that any sewer plant must also contain centrally located community amenities like a "picnic area" and an "amphitheater," and Tri-W -- the same site as her failed plan -- was the only site that would meet that "project objective." Of course, that "community value" never existed, she just made it up to retain Tri-W -- as well as officially overriding the entire environmental review process to keep the centrally located park element in the project. The interesting thing to note here is that no one would have been in a better position than Nash-Karner to know that that so-called "community value" never existed in Los Osos, because she spearheaded Measures E-97 and D-97 in 1997, both dealt with public recreation stuff in Los Osos, and they both failed. Obviously, she was aware of their failure. Obviously. Yet, two years later she's telling the Coastal Commission, as a CSD Director, that there's a "strongly held community value" in Los Osos for a centrally located, multi-multi million dollar "sewer-park."

Shockingly, the Coastal Commission doesn't take the time to substantiate that outrageous claim, due directly to the time constraints because of the two years that were wasted chasing the Community Plan, and her "community value" scam works. Then, she leaves the board after one term, and behind the scenes, through her marketing business over the next five years, she ensures that Tri-W continues to roll down the track with an absolute saturation of Los Osos with her noxious brand of "behavior-based marketing."

The Coastal Commission, in 2004, FINALLY catches on to her "bait and switchy" ways, and instead of dumping the entire mess right then and there, as they should have -- the LOCSD Board, made up entirely of Nash-Karner's cohorts, unanimously votes to "reincorporate" "Pandoraland" back into the project. Uhhhhhg! (Why do you think you ended up with a $690,000 dog park in your sewer plant, for God's sake? That should ring a little ridiculous to everyone! By the way, the proposed Arroyo Grande dog park is estimated at $11,500. Los Osos, it sure sounds like you missed out on one $weeeeeeeeeeeeeet California-taxpayer-funded dog park in your sewer plant.) Then when the electorate FINALLY gets fed up with her "compelling language" in 2005, they vote her team out of office. But she still won't go away. Nope, not Nash-Karner. Instead, immediately after the recall vote, before the vote is even certified, she devises a "strategy" to keep Tri-W by lobbying Briggs to fine anything that moves in Los Osos, so it'll cripple the community and at least give her another chance, however slim, at retaining Tri-W, for whatever reason. I have no idea what that reason is, but I'd sure love to find out.

What an amazing, amazing story... blows me away. (And now I'm supposed to believe that she's out of the game entirely? Nice try.)

But other than that, Anon, you're right, she has "nothing to do" with the CDOs and fines... other than that. (And, I also feel like I have to add this these days: Please keep in mind, I have nothing against her at all, she seems like a very nice person, other than the stuff I mentioned above... other than that. You have to admit, she does make for one hell of a story.)

Anonymous said...

yada yada yada freakin' yada Crawford. As you sit in your hut in Santa Margarita, we have real issues to deal with. In the present and the future. Your tired, obsessive ego trips down memory lane do nothing to serve this community. Never did and never will.

Anonymous said...

Say what you want about Ron. And yes, the RWQCB has the power over us, as is clearly evidenced by everything that's going on. But man oh man has he ever got Pandora freakin' nailed! The Pandora story won't save us from ourselves but Ron has definetely got her number.

Anonymous said...

The jig is up.

That's the truth.

Anonymous said...

It is too bad Ron still wants to crucify Pandora, but then Ron doesn't live in Los Osos! Ron has done NOTHING to help us design and build a sewer system.

All Ron Crawford has ever done is complain and bitch.

Well Ron, go take on the IRS as a new crusade, we know you have no say in the Los Osos/SLO County WWTF at Tri-W!

Anonymous said...

Why shouldn't she be crucified? She got us into this mess!

Ron said...

It's kind of rainy so...

I forgot to add an important detail:

If the LOCSD had not voted to "reincorporate" Pandoraland back into the project in June, 2004 -- remember, they ripped out the park element of the project almost entirely immediately after they got initial Costal Commission approval for Tri-W in 2001, because they didn't have any money to pay for it -- the Coastal Commission would not have allowed them to move forward with Tri-W, because Pandoraland was the only reason it was chosen in the first place, and the fines from the Water Board would have started right then and there, in June, 2004, and bankruptcy would have soon followed.

I want to repeat that: If the LOCSD had not voted Pandoraland back into the project in June, 2004, fines and bankruptcy would have started then. That was their choice in 2004: Fess up to their highly embarrassing "bait and switchy" tactics and get fined, or reincorporate Pandoraland and spin hard. Guess which route they chose?

Ugly, huh?

If you want to see an interesting financial breakdown of Pandoraland, I have a great graphic on my blog here.

I mean, look at this stuff:

A $970,000 playfield in a sewer plant? A $38,000 picnic area in a sewer plant? And then have all that stuff dictate a mid-town location? What were they thinking? That's embarrassing.

Anonymous said...

What have Lisa and Julie done?

Anonymous said...

Ron, you are a real piece of work. Maybe you'll actually buy a nice little house in the PZ and then get yourself elected or appointed to the CSD Board. Then maybe you'll learn why nothing was as simple or cut and dried as you would like to think it was.

You really don't have a clue why decisions were made and why changes were also made. The old CSD climbed through every hoop in the book and still had to put up with the bullshit thrown at them by our outstanding citizens like AL and Kieth and Juile and folks like you and Margetson who don't even live in our community. You are right there with the biggest ass's who only wanted to halt any and all sewer plans. You still have your head up your ass trying to say there is no ground water pollution from septic tanks.

Anonymous said...

Ron, Ann,

From anon 19:22:
"Tell us EXACTLY what the process is.

Not what you THINK the process is, but EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO REALIZE A WASTE WATER PROJECT.

Until you answer this question, your comments about "process" not being followed are full of crap."

I couldn't agree more. Give us the PROCESS to move forward then, OK? Enough history, I think we all "get" the history. And forget composing toilets, ain't gonna fly Ron.

Anonymous said...

To All Pandora Evil Dreamers:

The county has lied and tried to trick the community already. Bruce Gibson, county officials and Sam Blakeslee are endorsing the CDO's by not sticking up for them (and for all voters in L.O.)

The CDO's are only a scare tactic and people are smart enough (now) to see through the bull. The CDO's will not stand up in a real court of law.

If the 218 fails the state can not put anything in until they follow the 218. The state isn't above the law. You all are trying to scare the people, trick the people into a project that's worse than any CDO. We're glad that you all are so rich and/or will make money off the Tri-W deal, but the average home owner (not people who show up at CSD meetings) will vote with their pocket book.

You all are making the county look bad by implying that it will be Tri-W/gravity when the county has promised to look at alternatives. You are showing their corrupt process. Nice job.

You only want this bad expensive project to force people who own their homes free and clear out of them and lose everything. You are bad people. Ugly people to do this to your neighbors. Glad you're rich and are going to make a lot more money off the people forced out. Just great. Real nice.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone on here considered the fact that we had a perfectly good legal firm (Seitz & Seitz), and that they had defended the CSD on 12 separate pieces of litigation? AND that they won each and EVERY one??

So, why the hell did the Lisa Board take on the high priced bozos who have LOST every one, and charged an arm and a leg??

Is it because dear Gail suggested the BOD get the expensive law firm? Is it because the expensive law firm suggested the total moron, Dan Bleskey for IGM??

Seems to me Gail has had her hand in every ruination event of this Board of morons.

Anonymous said...

NO RON, you should be an embarrassment to yourself! You silly SOB, do you NOT understand the concept of a facility being mostly UNDERGROUND? Obviously not. If the damned thing is buried, why the hell NOT use the above ground area for a park, restroom, playground, etc.?

WHY, oh WHY cannot you even THINK of a WWP without thinking of above-ground nasty facilities, stink and mid-20th Century technology? What in the hell is wrong with you? You are just some rabble-rouser, who wants to keep the pot stirred. You are just some one-shot amateur, who had one silly article in some yellow, free throw-away rag, and NOW you think we are supposed to listen to you like you are some sort of expert??

Your expertise is worth absolutely $.00, and your opinion, as well.

You don't even live here. Why the hell are you posting, all the time? Don't you have a life??

You sorry example of rabble rouser. You are absolutely pathetic.

Anonymous said...

To Anon above:

Gail had her hand in EVERY bad piece of decision and advice with the Lisa board. This board was warned about Wildan and Biggs. They would only listen to Gail. Brainwashed, I guess. Fouche did lose his memory and was hospitalized. Lisa can't think for herself, and Chuck & Steve were Gail's guys all along because she picked them to run and they couldn't do anything without Gail.

Hey, I'd be a "dreamer" if I could afford it!

Anonymous said...

To anon @ 8:52,

Tri-W underground?? How will they be able to haul sludge away? How can trucks back up to the treatment plant? Besides, the thing is going to stink and won't be fun to hang around. Well, maybe for you.

Anonymous said...

"If the 218 fails the state can not put anything in until they follow the 218."

Get a grip, Bozo.

All the State has to do is declare a health emergency, and the 218 vote is nothing but dust in the wind.

Anonymous said...

8:52pm: Right on.

Ron is the supreme crackpot of all crackpots. He doesn't even live in Los Osos. (Like we need to import crackpots) We have enough home-grown crackpots to last through to the next milleneum. We don't need Ron. Ron should concern himself with Santa Margarita. He wrote one article years ago, in a freeby paper.

So what??

No one gives a damn.

No one is interested.

No one listens to some dude who wrote a second class article in a freeby that is the perfect size to put in the bottom of a BIRDCAGE. Yeah, Ron, your words just fit my Polly's cage! And, he shit right on your by-line!

Anonymous said...

They would have to prove that first. The 218 is California Constitution. What arm of the state could do this? It wouldn't be the State Water Board. Who then? Please tell us more!

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:33:
Your insistenace that everyone who actually wants a sewer in Los Osos is a Pandora Evil Dreamer proves just how embarassingly ignorant you obstrucitonists are.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to see the Health Department come in and prove there is pollution. Maybe then we could finally expose the illegal test wells. Maybe we could expose the county about permitting septic tanks, they are liable. They can not be allowed to get away with what they've done. It's not over!

Anonymous said...

You saw Ann's definition of evil. That fits all of you who are hurting people. That includes Pandora. Sure, she'd like people to believe she's done nothing. She can hide, but she did what she did. She wrote to Roger Briggs asking him to fine the hell out of Los Osos. Remember? She'll have to live with that. I hope she can.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:07 --

You spin. People may want a sewer but not the mega sewer that we don't need. Your project was and is over priced (and not the best for the needs of Los Osos.) Besides, the peer review liked out of town. Weren't there 4-5 top experts in wastewater on the peer review?

Why can't you see that we want a sustainable project? What is wrong with you people?

This is 2007 and we should look at something besides the old gravity break down project. What you want is an energy monster. Our bills will be over the top.

We will vote no and see you in court.

Anonymous said...

You won't be seeing me in court my friend. That would be the State's Attorney General. I recommend you start saving your pennies now.

Anonymous said...

anon 10:03,

Unless we find some aid or grants, the bill will be over the top even if it's a row of outhouses on the edge of town. We've waited way too long, it ain't gonna be cheap.

Anonymous said...

Orenco is less expensive by far. The bill would be under $150 and would work better than gravity. Why do some still insist on the most expensive? Will they cash in on that plan? Just why won't you look at any other projects? Stuck on stupid?

Anonymous said...

Dear Friend 11:52PM,

Won't see you in court? Are you saying the county can't be sued? Are you saying the RWQCB can't be sued? Are you saying the recalled 3 can't be sued?

Health Emergency? The legislation was a lie to begin with (stating that 5,000 septics were polluting) THANKS SAM BLAKESLEE FOR THE BIG LIE TO HELP YOU ALL GET TRI-W.

Proof of pollution? Where is the proof?

Anonymous said...

Ann, Ron

Tell us EXACTLY what the process is.

Not what you THINK the process is, but EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO REALIZE A WASTE WATER PROJECT.

Until you answer this question, your comments about "process" not being followed are full of crap.

Anonymous said...

Ann, Ron

Tell us EXACTLY what the process is.

Not what you THINK the process is, but EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO REALIZE A WASTE WATER PROJECT.

Until you answer this question, your comments about "process" not being followed are full of crap.

Anonymous said...

Ann, Ron

Tell us EXACTLY what the process is.

Not what you THINK the process is, but EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO REALIZE A WASTE WATER PROJECT.

Until you answer this question, your comments about "process" not being followed are full of crap.

Anonymous said...

Ann, Ron

Tell us EXACTLY what the process is.

Not what you THINK the process is, but EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO REALIZE A WASTE WATER PROJECT.

Until you answer this question, your comments about "process" not being followed are full of crap.

Anonymous said...

Ann, Ron

Tell us EXACTLY what the process is.

Not what you THINK the process is, but EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO REALIZE A WASTE WATER PROJECT.

Until you answer this question, your comments about "process" not being followed are full of crap.

Anonymous said...

To the blogger who wants an answer from Ann and Ron, so much so that they have posted the same question 5-6 times. YOU don't answer any questions YOURSELF!

Why is the county allowed to get away with the permitting of septics?

Why won't you look at projects more sustainable for Los Osos?

How could Sam Blakeslee lie to get legislation through? How could Sam Blakeslee only tell Tri-W supporters about the wording in the legislation, but keep it a secret from half the community? How could Sam Blakeslee try to have a 218 in the middle of a project rather than before a project during his compromise before his legislation?

How can you argue with the peer review results and still insist Tri-W is better?

Why don't you "full of crap" blogger answer any questions, but just blog the same over and over?

It's obvious that you don't like what Ann and Ron say. You don't want to truth out (you try to ruin the blog) to stop the truth!

Anonymous said...

To Anon Above,

Gee...all I want to know it if Ann and Ron know the PROCESS.

Obvioulsly they don't, as they refuse to answer the question

Same as Ann and Ron refuse to answer the questions about.......

1. The FACT that the currrent CSD draining CSD reserves by $2,000,000 because they illegally mispent the property tax revenues and assessment bond revenues.

2. The FACT that the current board was elected on the LIE that they had a "plan" that would not result in the loss of the SRF loan, result in fines, CSD bankruptcy etc.

3.. The FACT that the New board has FAILED in that they wre not politically strong or savy enough to prevent all the terrible things that have happened to Los Osos.

4. The FACT that the cost of a new project will not be cheaper than if we had just built Tri-W.

THAT TRUTH IS THAT RON AND ANN DO NOT SAY ANYTHING OF VALUE.

Anonymous said...

Then why do you come back over and over and over?

Anonymous said...

So I can catch up on be aware of all of Ann's and Ron's lies.

Anonymous said...

That's interesting because you seem to be so fixated on the "truth."

Anonymous said...

I like Ann's columns. I like the entertainment they generate. Who cares that they don't have any truth, they are funny.

Ann has no political power in Lost Egos. She is simply a geriatric diversion from the reality the CSD dumped on us.

Those of us who will be paying for the sewer need a few laughs to keep from getting ulsers thinking about how screwed up our community really is!

Anonymous said...

I like Ann's columns too. They're opinion pieces. Agree or disagree but don't get too hung up on them. Divert your energy where it's needed. It's a waste of time to think that you can get anything done by taking potshots at Ann.

Anonymous said...

To know the truth you must be able to see the lies.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Ann. Keep up the good work. At least you do know what the truth is.

The Tribune has been a MAJOR player to make us look bad. They never printed anything on the peer review, so it never made it to California Water News!

The Trib reaches the entire county and only prints what the county wants them to print and they've made us look bad over and over again. I just wonder how anyone in any other community would feel if THEY had to pay $500 for a sewer bill!

We could have a project for under $150 a month, but the county doesn't want that!

Anonymous said...

Ha! The "peer review" was a joke and you know it!

Anonymous said...

Anon above,

Who are you to say the peer review was a joke? Our own engineer didn't think so. The RWQCB quoted one of them for their case at the hearing recently. So, you know more than the RWQCB and Rob Miller?

You fool!

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 8:47,

Are you being paid by Montgomery/Watson/Harza too? ...just wondering...

Anonymous said...

"The Trib reaches the entire county and only prints what the county wants them to print and they've made us look bad over and over again."

So the county also has control of what the local newspaper says. Wow. I understand the county also had a hand in the Kennedy assassination.

Do you realize how stupid you sound? Believe me, Los Osos doesn't need the Tribune to make them look bad.
People like you do fine on your own.

Anonymous said...

Los Osos is the real Dogpatch from the comics, except there is nothing funny about the insanity over a sewer. There is no longer an objective person within this small community. Each side is now so black and white that the CSD was rendered ineffective.

The County is providing the only way out of this quagmire!

Churadogs said...

Anonymous sez:"Ann,

Tell us EXACTLY what the process is.

Not what you THINK the process is, but EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO REALIZE A WASTE WATER PROJECT.

Until you answer this question, your comments about "process" not being followed are full of crap."

Take a look at what the County has outlined (should be on their LO website) Then imagine there are NO behind the scenes "deals" or pressure concerning the SRF Loan, or the RWQCB CDO electioneering, that the engineers and the TACs will evaluated the variousplans fairly and accurately(no preconcieved notions about type or place) and allow the science, the einvornment, the long term costs &etc. all allow the various sytems to "percolate" to the top, so to speak. There may well be several top contenders that are at least within hailing distance of each other in terms of cost, water reuse, energy efficience, long term costs, environmentally prefered, blah, blah, blah. PROVIDING THERE ARE NO HIDDEN PRESSURES TO SECRETLY SELECT A PARTICULAR SYSTEM, FOR A PARTICULAR REASON: i.e. One that will allow a centrally located park in the middle of it, or one that locks in the SRF loan payback, or one that uses a particular type of system because it allows higher profits by favored companies, etc. All kinds of little thumbs that can secretly be put on the scales to ensure a certain Hobson's Choice outcome -- (Re the SRF 6 mil, Paavo noted that he viewed the $6 mil SRF loan to be like "points" on a loan. if the final project slected turns out to cost $200 million and utlizes State Revolving Funds, then those "points" would make sense. iI a project is available for $20 million and privately funded and doesn't need SRF monies,, then it would be financially impossible to justify going with the $200 mil project just to make sure that $6 mil can be folden in, & etc. That's part of what I mean when I say, everyone has to get their fingers off the scale.) Then, suppose the top two (?) three(?),should survive the process of fair evaluation, those two (one?) will then be presented with a best guestimate as to the ball park costs for all of them. A 218 vote is taken (minus the scare headlines channeled from the RWQCB via their conduit at the Tribune ). The county then is suppposed to commit to further work, i.e. value engineering, EIRs, all the work needed to hone the options down, at which the coummunity will vote on which two (?) they want, providing at that point that value engineering even ends up with two. it's possible that value engineering will further winnow down the possibilities and there will be only one system standing. That remains to be seen. That Process failed with the original CSD, both when the Ponds of Avalon came a cropper (CSD needed to go back to the community for an advisotry vote; that process failed as Ron keeps pointing out, the prefered EIR indicated 'out of town" but the presaon given was to keep the plant in town becasue a "strongly held community value" decreed the need for parks in the center of town (Ron's still looking for any documentation of tht "strongly held community value."), also gone missing was the CC's request to do a side by side comparison of in-town/out of town, which, according to the CC's staff report put a guestimate at $1 mill less or $5-6 mil more, which on a 30 year loan of the then project cost would have been chump change and was certainly a close enough call that that should have gone (and COULD) have gone to the voters. And had it gone to the voters at that time, via a 218 vote, (heck, even had the recalled CSD held a 218 before adding on the gazillions increase on the SRF loan), (and held off on starting work,)(and Briggs hadn't lost his marbles and rushed into his Mad Pumping Scheme) we wouldn't be in this train wreck.

THAT's what I mean by process. And in the case of the Los Osos sewer, that Process broke down at several critical points, starting from the formation of the CSD and the Ponds of Avalon that, it turns out, would not be permitted by the RWQCB also from day one. Right there, the train was off in the wrong direction.

I can only hope ithis Process doesn't break down again for the same reasons.

Anonymous sez:"Who are you to say the peer review was a joke? Our own engineer didn't think so. The RWQCB quoted one of them for their case at the hearing recently. So, you know more than the RWQCB and Rob Miller?"

Now, there's a question for Paavo and the County Engineers and the RWQCB staff: Do you feel that the so-called Peer Review Workshop was a "joke" or a waste of time or useless or any some such? Do you think the engineers at that workshop were fools or incompetents or idiots?

Anonymous said...

To anon @ 7:50AM,

The county does direct the Tribune on what to cover and what not to cover!

The Tribune's advertisers are the very dreamers who want Tri-W (realtors, etc.) so if you think Sandra Durr and Shirley B. didn't work together, you're nuts.

The Tribune didn't cover the CDO story until NINE DAYS LATER. No peer review story, yet they print little stories for the dreamers.

The Tribune has done much damage printing incorrect information, using kids out of college to write what they're told to.

Yes, many are working together for the Tri-W to rid the town and make a lot of money for themselves. When there's millions of dollars involved, you better believe there's a big conspiracy going on.

Too many win with the Tri-W. The county wins when they can take homes away, the realtors win when they buy up the houses cheap, etc. It's the whole "food chain" of people who will "cash in." YOU BETTER BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A CONSPIRANCY!

Ron said...

An Anon wrote:

"If the damned thing is buried, why the hell NOT use the above ground area for a park, restroom, playground, etc.?"

That is someone that will never be able to wrap their mind around what happened with Tri-W, no matter how much I type, and there are a lot of those in Los Osos. They will never realize that the only reason it had to be buried (read: $$$) was BECAUSE of the park.

No park, no Tri-W, no burying, no extensive and expensive odor scrubbing, etc.

It's like a chicken and egg thing. The ones that believe Nash-Karner, or Buel for that matter, think that since the treatment facility "had" to be downtown, there might as well be a park in it as well. That's inaccurate, but it's exactly what Nash-Karner wants you to believe, and the Coastal Commission hates it, understandably, every time she says that, or publishes it in her marketing material, as they have told me. They should be infuriated every time she does that, and they are.

As the Coastal Commission will tell you, if you call them, the sewer plant was going downtown BECAUSE of the park. That's 100-percent accurate, and if you can't grasp that notion, that's not on me, that's on you. You drank Nash-Karner's "behavior-based marketing" Kool-Aid, not me.

Anonymous said...

What a moron!

The Tri-W plan called for 20' for the structure to be below ground level. That left 20' above ground and that was shielded with a wave-wall and landscape. The park was never going to be on top of the treatment plant.

Your type of mis-leading comment is typical of the lies created by the move the sewer people to scare the voters.

Ron, if you had been paying any attention to the planning process you would have known the truth, but you seem to want to continue spreading lies and misconception. It seems you are trying to blame everyone not seeing life through your composting toilet sales pitch as being corrupt. Ron, you are a phoney!

Anonymous said...

Ann said:

"And in the case of the Los Osos sewer, that Process broke down at several critical points, starting from the formation of the CSD and the Ponds of Avalon that, it turns out, would not be permitted by the RWQCB also from day one."

So Ann, does that mean that you are pro-dissolution? And that you were good with the County's sewer project by the middle school with chlorine disinfection? Is that what you are saying? And that ponds won't work and that would be a mistake now too, as without proof, and there still is NO proof of denitrification to the level required, that ponds out of town are also a bad idea? Next you will be telling us that you are pro-gravity!

Ron said:

"No park, no Tri-W, no burying, no extensive and expensive odor scrubbing, etc."

What? You think the people outside of town aren't going to raise a fit about odor? What makes you think anyone wants the stink? Do you think that there won't be homes out there someday? Get real!

Anonymous said...

Hello....I'm an outsider to the PZ.

We've looked into the ponding systems and there are odor from ponds!!!

We're very concerned and don't want a sewer pond in our backyard!!!

Anonymous said...

To Anon 1:56 ---

At least you admit that the sewer will stink. It's okay with you to have it here with a park that stinks, but you don't want the sewer out of town? I guess we know where YOU live.

Thanks again for the admission. We really want a stinky park and sewer.

Besides, there is plenty of room out of town for ponds -- you don't have to live on top of it!

Anonymous said...

Sorry, the Tri-W design is not a pond and it doesn't emit odors if you had bothered to read and ask questions. You have been lead to believe a line of lies spread by the move the sewer people. They have lied about every aspect of any sewer and have no alternative other than a compost toilet.

It is really suggested that you go out and buy 2 or 3 immediately before the price goes up. Oh, they also emit odors, but they are good for the environment!

Anonymous said...

The folks that live out of town have really benefitted from all of this. After all, what community would vote for a sewer in town? Well of course we did when PandoraLand said it would be $38 a month with a "drop dead" park. well that was a lie. We fought it and now we have a "drop dead" date. Ron are you listening the irony is exquisite here!

Anonymous said...

There is "NO TOWN"!

Los Osos/Baywood Park is a large kitty-litter box of polluted drinking water being screwed by over by the anti-anything folks who think it is a beach side village. BARF! You're all screwed! You did it to yourselves! Keep your septic in your own cat box!

Anonymous said...

Anon above:

Morro Bay pollutes the bay, not us.

Morro Bay has more polluted groundwater too. 4X as much.

Morro Bay dumps crap directly into the ocean.

And you say, BARF to Los Osos? Not too smart!

Do you know how many septics exist in the country? They do fine.

Step will do fine too.

Anonymous said...

Los Osos is not polluting the bay?

Wow! Now that's a revelation you must rush to the RWQCB and pound into their heads!!!

Incredible thinking in Dog Patch these days!

Anonymous said...

I though Kitts stated one tenth of one percent was polluting the bay. Look at sources of pollution, the Energy Plant, boats, Morro Bay Plant, etc. Just take a look at the bay up there and you can see that it's not us polluting the bay. That's all part of the big lie. If any homes were polluting the bay, it would be Pandora's homes and Waterworth's home.

Anonymous said...

Yes, another brillient scientific mind of a Los Osos sewer lawyer at werk. Thank you for your input, you may go back to sleep now.

Anonymous said...

Morro Bay is polluting?? I say its Ok for us to do it too, if they can do it!!!!

Signed,
JT, age 5

Anonymous said...

Nitrates = markers - 1/10%- fine that can be that part of the breakdown, now lets look at what else is likely lurking.
Unmarked pollutants: blood born pathogens that thrive in water, meth lab by products, live vaccine by product in children's and adults bowel movements(polluting our landfills too), e-coli, growth hormones, estrogen, pharmaceuticals, carcinogenics from paint that people throw down their drains and streets, paint thinner, illegally dumped dry cleaner by product(found in one well), washing paint brushes, runoff after heavy rains polluted with degreaser, oil, anti-freeze, pesticides, herbicides.

When is too much too much? Do people really think we are supposed to wait until it is completely toxic? Prevention is more cost effective. The arguement regarding nitrates isn't sitting with anyone who has compassion for the preservation of our resources. Water quality is the issue - groundwater and bay, present and future. Do we wait until there is a major health issue? That's what would cause the red tagging of our houses. There is no conspiracy when it comes to actual health concerns. Treating to a level of quality to discharge is better than what we are doing now.
Whose fault is it if we don't try to fix this? Discharge is discharge is discharge, leech fields are leech fields are leech fields - it comes from septic tanks.
Is this Pandora's fault or Ron's?

Anonymous said...

I meant to say LEACH field - not a blood sucking animal like a LEECH, or like how some people are sucking the life out of the rest of us and think it is their right because.....? They know more because.....? They represent.....? It is o.k. for them to be MORE right because....?

Anonymous said...

Whatever small percentage we MAY be polluting the bay, is asolutely NOTHING compared to other sources. Get real!

If there would have been a Septic Survey , we would have known a long, long, time ago what areas needed to be cleaned up and could have corrected this long ago, but no, you wanted your mega sewer, so you all did nothing!!!!

Anonymous said...

No discharge means no discharge - so what would the septic survey do? What is your data concerning other sources. I suggest you contact the group that moniters and analyzes the first flush during our first heavy rain - urban runoff, nonpoint source pollution. Guess which community has the "ickyest" run off between Los Osos and Morro Bay. Traditionally, ours is more icky - we should really address this as we address our other water quality issues. I guess if we need a mega sewer to protect us and the future "us", I'm in! Don't waste your time debating who did nothing, no results there.
Take care.