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Saturday, February 17, 2007

I’m vilifying you, for God’s sake. Pay attention.”

Henry II to Eleanor in James Goldman’s The Lion In Winter

Got a phone call yesterday morning a little after 8 am from Harvey Packard, Division Chief for the Regional Water Quality Control Board. Harvey’s sort of in charge of running the “Torquemada’s Mad Hatter Tea Party & Auto-d-fe Public Beheading & Traveling CDO Show” until Roger Briggs returns from his extended vacation. Harvey’s one of the people CDO recipient Bill Moylan stood a few feet away from at the Jan 22 "trial" and looked directly at and said “What does matter is that members of the Water Board prosecution team were informed many times last year that people were suffering physically, emotionally, and spiritually from this CDO process, and that the Water Board had an obligation to help the people of Los Osos and not hurt them, and those pleadings were ignored.”

Harvey just sat there and ignored Bill as well, even though he knew firsthand that this process was hurting people, which was weird since I don’t think Harvey is a sociopath, so the question remains: Does he truly not know what he’s doing is scientifically pointless or is he just being a good German and following orders? If he honestly thinks the CDO requirements will have an impact on groundwater in the short time until the County finishes the wastewater system, he should have a little sit down chatty-poo with Tim Cleath of Cleath & Associates, or maybe Dr. Wickham or Dr. George of the so-called Peer Review Group. If he’s just following orders, and he knows those order are injuring people, ah, then a far more interesting moral question presents itself, doesn’t it?

Of course, there’s always the possibility that Harvey knows perfectly well that the only reason for the CDOs is as a coercive Prop 218 electioneering device but, since I’m sure that’s all very illegal, then his only option is to follow orders and keep his mouth shut, which again presents more interesting moral issues for Harvey.

Meantime, he clearly cares enough when he feels he’s been misquoted in the paper, which is why he came to be calling me. Seems Harvey has a secret vice: checking my blog on occasion, especially if he hears I’ve mentioned his name or am vilifying him and the rest of the Mad Hatter Crew. I know, it’s an awful thing to admit to, sort of like confessing that you collect Kewpie Dolls or egg cartons or secretly hoard string and have a ball of it six feet across in your garage.

I had posted a previous blog entry that noted that a February 11 Tribune story quoted Packard as saying that “his agency must move ahead with its process in the event that the current plan falls through. He added, though, that the regional board has no plans now to expand enforcement beyond the 45 targeted.” [italics mine]. I questioned the accuracy of that quote since the Board had not met to decide anything about future CDOs and I thought at the time how unfortunate that quote was because it implied to the Los Osos reader that if they were not one of The Los Osos 45, then they didn’t have to worry since they were off the hook, which was sooooooo not true, but certainly would be a great misapprehension to get out into the community so as to keep them again off balance by keeping them poorly mis-and-mal-informed.

Turns out that I was right and here was Harvey to let me know, Yep, it was an “incorrect quote.” He thought the reporter, Sona Patel, had understood what he meant, but apparently the truth was simply too difficult for poor Sona to comprehend.

And anyway, the statement she did print was accurate even though it was totally misleading, which is actually pretty cool: Say one thing that is technically accurate yet creates a totally different meaning, then if anyone questions it, simply say (accurately) that you were quoted incorrectly. Mission accomplished: The reader is misled but you’re off the hook.

In the case of Harvey and the “no plans now to expand enforcement beyond the 45 targeted,” that is technically true. As of 8 a.m. February 16th, 2007 Harvey has not received nor has the Regional Board issued any instructions to proceed with issuing CDOs on the rest of the community, even though that has been the Board’s stated intention, an intention Harvey has repeated ad infinitum, but since he does not have the actual paperwork on his desk in front of him as he makes that statement, he can “truthfully” say he “has no plans now (8 a.m. February 16th.) to expand enforcement beyond the 45 targeted.” And if he gets a phone call at 8:05 a.m telling him to proceed with 4,955 CDOs, well, that still doesn’t change the accuracy of his original statement and so it’s not Harvey’s problem.

And if the reader misunderstands, well, that’s not Harvey’s problem either, now is it?

More tea anyone?

146 comments:

Ron said...

Ann wrote:

"Seems Harvey has a secret vice: checking my blog on occasion..."

Cool!

I wonder if he checks my blog on occasion?

Anonymous said...

Ann,

If you think the CDO people are hurting now and in the last year, just wait until the county does do their project that we pay for. That will hurt 5,000 homeowners just as bad as the 45 CDO's when they won't be able to pay the bill for the big gravity sewer that the county wants and will get if a 218 does pass.

All the people who haven't been paying attention for whatever reason will pay a bill so high that they might as well hand over all their credit cards, check book, and hand their house over to the county because there's no way the average family can afford what the county wants to put in. The 218 will be a low ball amount and will only commit to a sewer project. Then all the fees and charges and probably imported water to boot. There are so many charges that will be tacked on to their big sewer that only the wealthy will be able to hold on.

Ms. Sullivan who apparently wants the big gravity sewer (she doesn't want step) has done a little electioneering of her own in the recent New Times article. She spoke of a proxy 218 vote in the RWQCB hearings, which is illegal. She's doing her part to scare everyone to vote yes and the CSD is paying her for that now? Good grief.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't it Chuck who said at the last CSD meeting that everyone in the PZ would be notified by the Regional Board that they are illegally discharging? Is that what the Regional Board will do rather than more CDO's? Will that be their fear threat now to pass a vote?

Anonymous said...

Well, welcome to the LOCSD, lil Joe! Your performance at the last closed session public comment was clearly up to par! Too bad I voted for you hoping you would bring some dignity and sanity to the situation. You've been sucked in like the rest and as a result your health will probably suffer. Now you know what it feels like, I guess.

Anonymous said...

Give'm Hell Joe! They have it coming and more! We have been watching a total wreck happening and someone needs to kick them in the ass!

Joe said what a whole lot of us have been saying about the out of control BOD! Let's get on to resolving the bankruptcy, or is it already too late? Only Joe seems to be trying to straighten the mess Lisa and julie have created!

Keep fighting Joe, you do have most of the community behind you!

Anonymous said...

I voted for Joe. I think Joe can take care of business. I hope Joe will fight for the whole community to insure that the county gives a fair, proper and legal Prop. 218 vote and thousands of homeowners won't be forced to leave because of the county's blank check.

Anonymous said...

Bratty "Little Joe" has NO Place on the Board of Directors or anywhere else, if he can't control himself & be civil, but that's to be expected from a "TAXPAYER WATCH candidate. He's clearly NOT UP TO THE TASK OF PUBLIC MEETINGS...Where is the decorum???? He really made an ASS OF HIMSELF...

Anonymous said...

ASS? Can you say LISA!

Anonymous said...

Lisa has really kept her cool quite well until this fiasco with "CROAKIE,CHOKIE SPARKS". His behavior was deplorable, he seems to have been taking lessons from the likes of JOYCE ALBRIGHT. AND SHE IS NOT A GOOD ROLE MODEL FOR ANYONE.

Anonymous said...

That's ok, keep laughing as the CSD is going to call it quits April 1 due to incurable insolvency. They have already made the decision.

Anonymous said...

Anon. at 11:50 A.M. How do YOU know that April 1 is the "DROP DEAD DATE", so to speak??? WHO is "THEY"? How do "YOU" know "THEY" have already made the decision? Give us the "scoop" as they say in the trade...

Anonymous said...

Joe Sparks is a complete a-ho. I feel sorry for him if he watches the reruns of that last meeting. He actually believes the recalled board did better with meetings and input! You've got to be kidding me! No committees, afternoon meetings, one meeting a month, gaveled down...Mr. Sparks is a classic example of someone only seeing what they want to see.

Anonymous said...

So Harvey checks out this blog? Well, welcome to the blog. I guess you can get a good taste of the political sentiment of Los Osos here. You can also get a feeling for the amount of ignorance running rampant. Ain't ANN a gas? Do you ever think we will have a sewer? Why would people vote to assess themselves when they know that they can't pay. Just to save some of the equity in the homes they will have to move out of?

*PG-13 said...

Ann > Seems Harvey has a secret vice: checking my blog on occasion..."

Wow. Hey, give the guy points for extracurricular reading. That's not a bad sign regardless of whatever his purpose is for reading the blog. I truly do wish he would visit us often. If only to lurk. Can't hurt.

Yep, it was an “incorrect quote.” He thought the reporter, Sona Patel, had understood what he meant, ..... and, ... the statement she did print was accurate even though it was totally misleading, which is actually pretty cool: Say one thing that is technically accurate yet creates a totally different meaning, then if anyone questions it, simply say (accurately) that you were quoted incorrectly. Mission accomplished: The reader is misled but you’re off the hook.

I tried that a few times. But my mom didn't appreciate the fine nuances of my statements and spanked me anyway. The very fact that Harvey came forward to rectify a correct quote seems only appropriate for the situation. < sigh > Amazing! Who are these people? And how far out in the universe did we have to go to find them?

Anonymous said...

Well, if Harvey is looking at this blog, I have a question for him ---- how can we be illegally discharging if 83-13 isn't a law????

Wouldn't it have to be a law to be illegal?

Anonymous said...

Well, it's kind of like speeding down the pollution hi-way. It's called a FINE. Let's clarify "illegal" - possesion of pot is "illegal" unless you have "x" amount. You idiots that try to pick the level of "legal" depending on the day and year and whatever....

A-d-m-n-i-s-t-r-a-t-i-v-e- h-e-a-r-i-n-g- if I speak slowly will you understand?

Not unlike showing up in traffic "zoo" court(thought I would pick a new one since kangaroo was already taken) you pay for what you plead for - lesser fee, traffic school, cdo, cao whatever, lose your license to "drive your house". What a JOKE! Making a WAY bigger deal out of it than it is for what? So McPhearson can have her vendatta? So Lisa can say "they(old board) did it first!"

Whatever, whiners. There are people DYING in Iraq, children STARVING in Africa, the Baltic nations are destroyed with generations of dealing with tyrrany and you all are CRYING about a freakin' sewer. No sympathy from many anymore. Get a grip, put it in perspective and say no to the TYRANNY of the CSD!!! Go away and have a pity party on your own damn dime.

There are pleanty of us here in the PZ who are ready to figure this out once and for all without ignoring the environmental atrocities for all to follow.

Take care, have a great night.

REVOLUTION

Anonymous said...

Anon above:

If what the regional board is doing is legal, then why have they never done this to individuals before? Besides, the homes were sold with legal septics, right? These HOMES WERE ALLOWED TO SELL WITH PERMITTED SEPTIC SYSTEMS, RIGHT? If the Regional Water Board had to conduct an enforcement action, it should be aimed at the county. But it's not about the water, now is it?

You have a good night.

*PG-13 said...

Anon > REVOLUTION

Revolution can be a necessary and healthy thing. Searching for Thomas Jefferson's thoughts on that I found this somewhere on the net. It seems appropriate:

As I wrote
in a short paper on "Sartre and the Party" more than 10 years ago,
people can stand only so much disruption of their everyday lives. They
want to live quietly while making incremental gains.
They want to have secure jobs and good health care for themselves and
their family members. They want their children to have a chance at a
good education to prepare them for a slot in the bureaucracy or at least
a good factory job. So they stop backing those who favor "permanent
revolution" or "bombarding the headquarters" and settle for the
bureaucrats who are quiescent almost to the point of lifelessness. Then,
of course, health care gradually worsens and becomes unaffordable; jobs
are much less secure; and educational opportunities are more restricted.
People become dissatisfied with that and the cycle starts again. It
seems to me to be almost impossible to avoid this. Even if you don't
have "victorious minorities" in charge, even if you have democratic
majorities and a participatory system in place, after a while the great
bulk of folks will rather watch tv or send e-mail than participate. And
it's then that the faceless bureaucrats take over. Perhaps that's why
Thomas Jefferson said we needed a revolution every twenty years.

(citation)

Anonymous said...

April 1st. That date was mentioned on the Tribune Blog a couple of days ago, too. What an absolutely appropriate date for the *four* losers to throw in the towel. Snivelling Lisa, Sagging Bosom Julie, Clueless Chuck, ?HUH? Steve.

Hey GANG!! HIRE SOME MORE LAWYERS, why don't you??

And may the Red-billed Loon of Lawsuits fly up your noses!!

Anonymous said...

If you are would stop breaking the law over and over again, there wouldn't be need for lawyers. The county is so corrupt. Friends taking care of their friends. Money to be made by a few by robbing people of their homes and future. When the whole truth comes out we'll see how happy your "heros" are. Good luck!

Anonymous said...

I can't believe that some fools in Lost Bozos still pucker up, and kiss long and deep, at the sound of the name, "Schicker"

"Schicker". It sounds like somebody doing a lock and load on a gun that is at the heads of the community's best interests!

What started out to be a noble mission has turned into a self-serving, payola-paying, gift-of-public-funds fiasco starring a completely befuddled tree-lady, a
cellulite cupcake mom, and two dudes who have taken directions from the two old bags.

Outta here on April 1st??

Not soon enough.

Anonymous said...

Dear anon 8:06 -
The county blinked and eveyone did whatever they wanted and now what do YOU want them to do? So people sold their homes to us unassuming potential CDO recipents, big friggin' deal! We got it, you want to go back and blame "somebody" for "something" and frankly we could give a crap!
New owners, old septics, move it along! Old argument, old nuance, old basin plan, whatever! Have a freakin' picnic and have some freakin' potatoe salad and sue the ass off your neighbor!
Don't you get it? You are doing your neighbors in by acting like you don't need any aquifer treatment!
Shit in, shit out. I don't want your shit in my water,period. High water, low water, upper aquifer, lower aquifer.
Get your septic out of my septic. Move into 2007 and think your sorry ass into 2550 and think about waht they might need dumb ass. It's not about you! It's about all of us and all to come. You simple minded dodo birds don't get the significance that we are responsible for the future. What is your legacy going to be?

Anonymous said...

to 10:42,

You just don't get it. The county is liable for permitting septics and should own up to their share (big share) of the blame. YOU MOVE INTO 2007 WITH A STEP SYSTEM -- A PROJECT THAT WOULD BE SUSTAINABLE AND BETTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT! You will not get your 218 for gravity! So, sign onto step, it's better for your neighbors, your health, and your pocketbook. What is YOUR legacy going to be? $600 a month for everyone in the PZ. You don't live in the PZ. You are paid to ruin Ann's blog.

Anonymous said...

No one is ruining Ann's blog any faster than those who are so one-sided in their STEP/Seg arguments and have no idea what the County will be proposing! Those who only spew hate and blaming Richard and all the other who served this community as our eleced CSD BOD are destroying freedom to openly discuss alternatives! You do indeed act like spoiled children!

Anonymous said...

The only one destroying freedom in Los Osos is the RWQCB. They are once again destroying the process through deception, coercion, intimidation, and backroom deals.

They are not suppose to dictate the project, and their misguided efforts have resulted in repeated failures. If they had been doing their job overseeing the local agencies instead of getting involved with local politics, sucked into the power trip of manipulating outcomes for profit, we would have solved this long ago. Look at the history. You will see a repeated pattern of inappropriate involvement.

Harvey is just a puppet for the State. They need to cover up this mess ASAP. Lets get Brigg's on the stand. Make the RWQCB pay.

Anonymous said...

You prove my point. You are so arrogant that you still think Los Osos could overturn any law or agency merely because you want it to be so. You can't see the corruption you have created and then wonder why know authority listens. The Los Osos CSD lead your crusade and now the whole community will have to pay for your nonsense.

Anonymous said...

"the whole community will have to pay for your nonsense."

You attribute a great deal of power to to individuals who voice their dissent, while granting immunity to those who truly have power.

Who controls the media? Who has the power to limit the information that is easily accessed by the community? Who is in attendance at the backroom deals? It is not the average individuals living in the PZ. It takes years for the truth to filter down to the common knowledge level, usually long after the decisions have been made and we are limited in our ability to stop the train wreck.

The RWQCB has watched this process for years and all their efforts have been to the advantage of the crooks. Who is paying for Brigg's year vacation? His yacht? I wonder if he tapped into his offshore acounts?

Anonymous said...

I love how some blame the new board, blame the citizens, blame everyone but themselves.

There was no 218 vote on the Tri-W project. NONE. Only a vote on the $24 million bond. The 218 is law, the law was avoided, and the project would have to stop and have a 218 anyway. Everyone saw the Blakeslee compromise. The state water board wanted a 218 before it would continue the loan.

The ones who started the project too early, without a 218 vote, have caused the price to rise on any project that is chosen. Now, who started the project without a vote?

Anonymous said...

The State should never have given us the SRF loan in the first place. Who advised them to go forward? Why did it take them over 20 years to discover that that CCRWQCB was incompetent and corrupt. Some oversight. What is going on at the state level?

And this is the system that protects our water. Heaven help us.

Anonymous said...

Did stopping a fully designed, permitted and funded sewer project do anything to protect our water?

If you think doing nothing is the answer, you should consider the costs those of us who live are going to be forced to pay. Not only has the CSD halted a legal project, but they spend all the funds by which they could have created their version.

Those who continue the corrption theory are only continueing the smokescreen. Get off that blame game. Support whatever/wherever project comes from the County. Our CSD never had the where with all to have provided a sewer system. Our CSD has apparently crashed and will not be able to pay even Staff by April 1. We have indeed shot ourselves in both feet!

Fickle Finger of Fate said...

Good thinking folks. With or without a 218 vote, whether or not the project was started too early or not, the progress on the sewer was stopped in a very bad way, and threatoned fines became a reality. Individual CDOs are now in the works.

Of course every judge that rules against your expectations, every political party that does not hand you enough, and everyone who demands you pay your fair share is CORRUPT! Perhaps they are corrupt in your foolish opinion because they are NOT fools.

Shoulda coulda does not count. Just wait until YOU get to pay for the obstructionist foolishness.

Anonymous said...

11:13 "Did stopping a fully designed, permitted and funded sewer project do anything to protect our water?"

A project that did not have and never would have received a 218 vote. A project that was based on lies to the people and the coastal commission. A project that required a delayed recall vote and hurry up spending in the hope of burying us to deep to get out. The former CSD and Roger Briggs knew the truth. I did not. Why am I an obstructionist? I will support a project developed in an open, honest process. The county pamphlet reminded me of Pandora propoganda. Give me truth and facts. And keep the Waterboards out of the equation.

Greta Mills said...

Hi Ann,
This is off topic, but since you know the "goings on", so to speak, at the Bay News, could you please put some clarification in Rosemarie Gaglione's statement about there being a "ROAD IMPROVEMENT PROJECT on 11th St.? If, by "road improvement project", Ms. Gaglione & her County crew are referring to "Patching a few holes", that's HARDLY what I'd consider a "PROJECT". Could you please be so kind as to get Ms. Gaglione's definition of "ROAD IMPROVEMENT PROJECT"? I have a new car, but when I travel on 11th St., I feel like my tires are coming off! Actually, that's true of almost all the streets here, but 11th is especially bad. It needs to be completely RE-SURFACED for it to be considered a "project", wouldn't you agree?
Thank you,
Greta Mills

Anonymous said...

To: 11:27AM,

We will all be paying for the recalled board's early start on a project without a Prop 218 vote. They knew they were supposed to have that vote. The county KNEW they were supposed to have that vote, yet did nothing but give their blessings to the recalled board who chose to break the law. Good Grief. Get a grip. We are going to pay dearly for the recalled board's funny business! This was not OUR foolishness, it was the recalled board's corruption, the county's corruption, and Jon Seitz to help.

And now you want everyone to trust the county? Good Grief!

Anonymous said...

When the agency in change of protecting our water has no checks and balances, corruption is bound to occur. We have been caught in their fecal waste of the RWQCB for soooo many years as their ineptitude seeps through the county and the CSD.

Anonymous said...

The county has a big conflict of interest here. The county stands to benefit greatly financially when people are forced out and the homes are re-sold, the county will get a much higher property tax base. More money for the county, more money for the state.

Besides, didn't Paavo help the Tri-W purchase to begin with?!?
Talk about conflict of interest.

And Montgomery Watson Harza is hired again!

How can the county possibly think we are so stupid as to trust them?

Anonymous said...

Thanks to all you nay-sayers, I'm feeling much better with the County running the project!

Thanks for all your help!

Anonymous said...

To above county lover:

The county won't have a project until the 218 vote is passed. I don't think they can pull it off.

Gravity, Montgomery Watson Harza, imported water, about $500 a month...no, I don't think so!

Anonymous said...

Our best chance at obtaining an acceptable project is to continue fighting the water board. If they are under the microscope with the cameras rolling, they will be more likely to play fair.

Sullivan is a smart one. She seems to really care about this community. It will be nice to have a lawyer that is working for the people.

Anonymous said...

Who made you so wise that you know what the "best chance" is?

Who do you think is going to sign off on the plans to determine the "acceptable" project?

I suspect no one from Los Osos will have a signature in any approval block on any plan.

Anonymous said...

I'm definetely for fighting the waterboard. They have overstepped their bounds here. I recently talked to someone who works for the state water department and that person was very surprised to hear what's been going on. A microscope is needed for sure. I support the county project and all of that but I do not support the actions of Briggs & Co.

Pissing in my drinking water and pissed off about it... said...

None of the "environmentalists" who are in favor of a "sustainable" STEP/pond system (or whatever isn't TriW) have ever explained why their system is soooooo much better than TriW that it is worth an additional 4-6 years of pollution before getting a plant online.

These same folks have never explained how their "systainable" system is actually less expensive than TriW.

Fuckheads!

Anonymous said...

Bev. De Witt-Moylan here:
Yesterday a friend asked me what it meant to CDO defendants that the water board has no plans for further CDO enforcement. Today a neighbor asked me the same question. As much as I appreciate Ann's blog, perhaps it is not the most effective outlet for Mr. Packard's assertion that he was misquoted in the Tribune and that the CDO process will continue.

Anonymous said...

"Who do you think is going to sign off on the plans to determine the "acceptable" project?"

Obviously any project has to meet state standards. Unfortunately the waterboard has been dictating the projects far beyond state standards. Remember the ponds we voted on? RWQCBs tend to morph projects when you are using an SRF loan.

And they want us to us an SRF loan. This allows them to tack on money owed (that they can't get back from their unsecured loan). And to twist the project to make us pay for calling them on their crooked game.

We really need alternative financing and the WB will not allow the County to pursue this avenue unless we are watching. We must challenge every move the RWQCB makes and call them on every dirty deed from the past. The County does not have the guts to stand up to the WB, so we must step up.

Anonymous said...

It is my understanding that the sustainable approach involves more recharge and recycling (avoiding state water) and less energy costs. A step/steg collection system might also lower the cost but I don't think the county will go for it. They want the septic tanks OUT. I think the best compromise is gravity collection with a different location for the treatment facility. Most home owners would probably go for that (I would). The infamous "October Compromise" was this formula and the community center was full of people supporting it.

P.S. Some of the language here has got to go. Or are you intent on keeping up our image as out of control losers?

Anonymous said...

There is NO sustainable approach! That was another of the Lisa and Julie dreams. I did support the Board, but there have been too many lies. There never was a real plan like they told us. I used to believe in the CSD, but they kept hiring lawyers and spent all the tax money as well as the SRF money. Now we're going to be told to repay the SRF loan and the cost of clearing the backruptcy. Then we'll have to still pay for a sewer! I feel we were betrayed by the CSD. They really did lie to us all.

Anonymous said...

does it make sense to you that the county/RWQCB will not accept STEP/STEG? The EPA is promoting energy/sustainablity, but the RWQCB and County are still pushing out dated technology on us. Why?

Anonymous said...

The Step system is half the cost of gravity. The construction would be 100 times faster and less intrusive to our lifestyle and our trees. I have read that some believe gravity is NOT suitable for Los Osos because we are on sand and in earthquake country (bad combination).

How many spills in LA in the last week or so? When the pipes break, how long does it take to know about it when they're 20 feet down in the ground? Gravity is stupid and too costly.

By the time we have to pay for a gravity system and operation and the energy it would consume, it's not the right choice (no matter the location) -- the developers want gravity so they can build -- how many homes? 19,000 to 23,000?

Also, you have to understand that Roger Briggs, Pandora, the county, recalled board, etc. know that the higher the price tag, the more people they can get out of here (riff-raff) -- it's in their best interest to make the bill as high as possible!

Besides, if anyone reads CA WATER NEWS, you can see that the governor promised not to raise taxes, but is instead pushing big public works projects (all unaffordable) all over the state. We are not alone.

You snooze, you lose.

Anonymous said...

Is there a Ca Water News website?

JR Tremonti said...

Hey there Greta!
I'm having the same problem you are with the streets around here. Matter of fact, while I was on my way to work yesterday, my new F-250 was almost swallowed alive in a huge sink hole by the Sheriffs Station.(Los Olivos & 11th) Wonder if I could have collected workers comp., if I had been swalowed alive in that sink hole? Maybe Rosemarie Gaglione might have an answer. Speaking of Ms. Gaglione, the new "street beautification" that's going on, on Santa Ysabel, who designed that assinine street configuration with those ridiculous wide center medians? The street is way too narrow for medians of that size, what will Ms. Gaglione & the County do when the "accidents" start happening?
JR Tremonti

JR Tremonti said...

Correction to above, I meant to say, Los Olivos & 10thSt.

Anonymous said...

GET REAL, PEOPLE!!

FIGHT the WATER BOARD?

Pray tell, with WHAT??

Los Osos is out of Money. Los Osos is out of Luck, Los Osos is shit outta options, when it comes
to things that are possible.

THERE IS NOTHING POSSIBLE, THAT ANY PENNY-ANTE, SECOND-CLASS, LOCAL MORONIC BOD CAN DO, THAT WILL MAKE ANY BIT(!) OF DIFFERENCE IN WHAT IS GONNA HAPPEN!!!!1


JUST SIT AND WAIT, LOS OSOS!!!

WAIT FOR IT!!!!!

Pissing in my drinking water and pissed off about it... said...

If STEP is so darn cheap ... what is the cost of putting in a completely new septic tank? By my (back of the envelope) calculations, if the cost of STEP is only half that of the $70M gravity system associated with Tri-W, that means we would each need to replace our septic tanks and if we couldn't do it for less than $7000 each the cost of STEP would, indeed, be higher than gravity.

Along those lines, I have yet to hear an argument that STEP is in any way more "sustainable" than gravity. My contention is that in this case, "sustainable" is just a word tossed around to justify one side or the other's desired outcome.

To the person who complained about my language earlier ... might I remind you that such language has been allowed (or even encouraged) here months ago ... as long as the nasty language was on the "move the sewer" side ... so it was still allowed.

However, because you were offended, I sign off with a milder version ...

****heads!

Anonymous said...

To Sinfully Selfish above,

Not all septics have to be replaced, only tested to make sure that they are sealed and water tight. The average cost to replace one would be on an average, $4,000 to $5,000. There will be new standards on AB885 though. But anyway you look at it, step is cheaper, faster, and healthier.

Anonymous said...

DREAMER! The overall costs of STEP/Seg will be at least $70M when all is said and done. There are far more septic tanks needing replacement than you can imagine! There was no honesty in the Ripley Proposal, they only produced a report that Lisa wanted to hear. There never was a true comparison.

Anonymous said...

Testing

Churadogs said...

Ron sez:"Cool!

I wonder if he checks my blog on occasion? "

Oh, I do hope so, especially all the documents you've cached and your various History of the World Part I & I and III & etc. so maybe it will dawn on him that it's highly likely he's operating under a partial "story," and there's a whole lot to this that went, uh, "missing."

J Tremonti sez:"Speaking of Ms. Gaglione, the new "street beautification" that's going on, on Santa Ysabel, who designed that assinine street configuration with those ridiculous wide center medians? "

If I'm not mistaken, the configuration on Santa Ysabel is for the purpose of traffic calming, as in SLOW DOWN FER CRYING OUT LOUD. I hope it works.

Anon sez:"I have yet to hear an argument that STEP is in any way more "sustainable" than gravity. My contention is that in this case, "sustainable" is just a word tossed around to justify one side or the other's desired outcome."

Think the words "sustainable" are used in the new State Water Board rules for qualifying for any State Revolving Funds. I suspect they have a definition for the word, so you might want to check with them. obviously the State Water Board thinks the words "sustainable" actually have real-world, on-the-ground, verifiable meaning.

Pissing in his/her drinking water sez:"To the person who complained about my language earlier ... might I remind you that such language has been allowed (or even encouraged) here months ago ... as long as the nasty language was on the "move the sewer" side ... so it was still allowed."

Wrong again. I have been dismayed by some of the childish, sophomoric potty-mouths who post here. Id have never encouraged such embarassing stupidity but the alternative is to turn off all comments so people like yourself wouldn't be able to throw the word "piss" around and offend others but that would also mean that people who actually have thoughtfulthings to post would also be shut out. Or I could spend endless hours deleting everything I found offensive and juvenile and stupid, which would turn me into some kind of Mommy, which is also insulting since I expect readers and posters on this blog to be adults and behave accordingly. The real problem with having a comment section that allows Anonymous Posters is the Anonyminity makes them act in embarassing ways they never would if they had to own and claim their opinion and remarks.

So, what would you prefer, cut you off entirely? Or simply ask that you all mind your Ps and Qs? People can disagree without going all stupid and potty mouthed. I mean, c'mon, we Los Ososians are a smart, clever bunch. We dont' need to resort to being dumbed down to Jr. High level, or worse.

I don't think so! said...

ANN writes:

"I mean, c'mon, we Los Ososians are a smart, clever bunch. We dont' need to resort to being dumbed down to Jr. High level, or worse."

Yup, we are so smart that we listened to "Jr. High level" obstructionists with false promisses and stopped a fully permitted, under construction, financed with a VERY low interest loan sewer system. We now have fines, individual CDOs, and have a 41 million dollar bankruptcy which the property owners get to pay for.

Now we are in the situation that if the county takes the tax money from April receipts to pay the fire department and to insure the bond money is paid, there will be no money for the LOCSD to continue to operate. INSOLVENT! Looks like Bro Bono time for every employee involved. Maybe the LOCSD can issue script.

I just wonder how this will affect the Blakeslee law and county liability when they HAVE to take over EVERYTHING.

"Smart clever bunch"? I think fools by any standards, 50% and small change, especially the obstructionists and people that listened to you nit-pick us to this distruction because of words like "sustainable" and "affordable".

Blame it on the water board, fool!

Anonymous said...

It looks very much like the CSD is going to do what the Taxpayers Watch wasn't able to do, Dissolve the CSD. Well, LAFCo won't really let them, but it is past time for Mrs. Shicker and Tacker to once again throw down their shovels, kick open the back door and run off in a fit of rage at not getting their personal way with the sewer!

April should be a very special month this year! The County could then appoint a meaningful Board who would actually work toward solving the financial disaster created by Lisa and co-criminals!

Anonymous said...

I think we'd be better off without the CSD. We formed it and look at all that's happened. It has never worked, not from day one of false promises. Maybe we should be a town with a mayor and so on.

Anonymous said...

Hell, Los Osos couldn't elect a mayor. We can't even decide if we're Los Osos, Baywood or Cuesta-by-the-Mud Flat. Cabrillo anyone?

Anonymous said...

It's Cuesta-by-the-Groundwater!

Mike Green said...

It's Cuesta by the pee!

Anonymous said...

Cuesta la Phew?

Pissing in my drinking water and pissed off about it... said...

To the Anonymous of 10:36pm on Feb 18 who claimed that not all septics need to be replaced and that the average cost of doing so would be about $5000 ...

Why would the replacement cost be about the exact same as the cost of decommissioning a septic system? It would seem considerably more complex than pumping out the old tank and filling it up with gravel. Pulling out the old tank and putting in a new tank has got to cost considerably more. Perhaps you are thinking of costs of installing a new septic system to a new house in the front of an un-landscaped yard ... a situation that none of us face.

The estimates are that at least 90% of our tanks would need to be replaced if STEP were to be used.

I still have yet to hear a reasonable argument why STEP is healthier or faster, let alone a good argument about why it is cheaper. To tackle the 2nd issue ... if we've already got a fully designed and permitted gravity system, wouldn't just building that system be faster than starting from scratch and designing a STEP system?

Heck, even the board in November 2005 pointed out that switching to STEP might actually raise our costs cost more than continuing with a gravity system.

No matter ... I suspect you were just telling us your belief and not telling us something that was evidence-based.


Sorry about the language, Ann. I was keying off what one of our anonymous friends here wrote a while back, not what you wrote.

Anonymous said...

Are you adding in the costs to operate and maintain the system? Gas and electricity keep going up. All those trucks trucking our sh.. to God knows where.

A balanced septic tank breaks down the solids with microorganisms using the energy from our sh... so less treatment is required at the facility. That is sustainablity.

Anonymous said...

Where do the nitrates come from and where do they go?

Anonymous said...

To 5:11PM,

I have lived in Los Osos for many years and am sick of the sewer fight. Today I read the Dana Ripley interview in THE ROCK and am changing my mind about Dana Ripley's plan, it sounded like it could be right for Los Osos. I read every word and I have to admit that I was impressed. I hope that the county will consider Dana Ripley because I fear that the prior sewer plan isn't the best solution. The cost may be a little more up front to replace septics but a lot cheaper after that, where the gravity system will cost much much more down the line.

Anonymous said...

All those trucks - as opposed to one truck at Tri-W. Somebody care to compare? For current population, low build-out 19,000 and full build-out of 28,000. Oops wait, Tri-W could handle only 19,000-some odd.

Guess which option the County would rather collect taxes from and sell state water to? Outta town sewer to accommodate more population!!!!

Anonymous said...

Dana Ripley was a bit sketchy on some of his project components - components that could bump the price up significantly, anon 9:25. Better dig a little deeper than the ROCK to get your information.

Anonymous said...

The nitrates come from people and animal urine. They are going into out upper aquifer water.

Pissing in my drinking water and pissed off about it... said...

good point on sustainability ... if less energy is used to truck solid waste or less electricity is used to process the waste it would be more sustainable.

however, please don't think that gravity and TriW are wed at the hip. the need to truck more solid waste is tied to the MBR nature of TriW. if we end up with a fancy ponding system, the ponds will take care of the majority of the solids.

perhaps it could be argued that STEP would make more of a impact on energy costs associated with trucking sludge if we were to go with MBR than if we were to go with ponding.


so, you've got an argument about sustainability ... where is your data to back up your point of view?

without data you're no better than some random yahoo on the corner telling us that Chuck and Steve will get us a $154 bill each month.

Anonymous said...

You may want to look into what size the foot print of a ponding system would take. You also need to consider a failure and the size of the retention of that accidental release to keep efflent from reaching the bay. What is the maintenance cycle as even ponds need sludge hauling. What is the design life of a pond. How many additional homes could be built because of the large ponding system.

BTW, Ripley requires regular sludge hauling.

Water worries said...

At this point I could care less about the sewer. We are going to run out of water. Already LOCAC is attempting to deny people's property rights because of a perceived water emergency. Best bring in State Water now. It may take many years to get the sewer problem resolved. We absolutely must have water.

Anonymous said...

LOCAC, as in Keith Swanson?

There won't be a lot of help from that major obstructionist to anything and everything in Los Osos.

better days said...

I agree that to get info look deeper than any press, however the Rock is doing Los osos a service in presenting information. Contacting Ripley is likely possible. He recommeded Trickling bio-filter-not ponds as I recall.

For the writer wondering about what happens to nitrogen, it is naturally occuring in the atmosphere. Plants bring it in and use it either from the air or from the soil/water. You breath air-which is part nitrogen, when itis removed from water or soil it must break down chemically in a biological "denitrification" process. It is released in a gasous form and returns to the atmosphere.Nitrificaton/denitrification is a process that is driven by energy. Chemical fertilizers from petroleum cost a huge sum, and are rising, but nitrogen can be used by farmers and save them money.

All confenernces and leading indusry economists recommend AGAINST MBR expcept for flows over 15 MGD- Los Osos is 1 MGD--and only if the water is being used for high grade reuse. Cooling towers, etc. Many large plants are backing away from MBR because it is unaffordible.

Wastewater ponds are not designed or constructed like an ag pond. They are carefully designed, lined and reinforced-the are constructed with integrity so they do not fail structurally. They have high tech flow controls, and over flows are nearly impossible. Any type of Plant is subject to failure, which is are usually due to power failures, toxic dumping, or operator error. The incomplete processing of the waste results in fines IF the discharge is released to waters of the State. (bay creek or ground water) Mechanical Ponds can be very stable processes and can absorb shock loading, and go without power for periods of time. MBR and other conventional systems cannot. The safety feature of a storage pond for finished water would keep a release of untreated or particially treated water from being released.

Spills & Fines come from leaking collection systems. Gravity has openings (manholes, pump stations) that back up with clogs of grease, debris, and rainwater can enter them and put too much water in the pipes. There are designed to "breath" and require openings. That they do "spill" was accepted pratice for over 100 years. Fines were for gross neglegence and lack of proper maintenance. But no amount of maintenance will get you zero spills. (the maintenance crews and equipment costs must be factored into gravity)

In the last decade laws and fines for spills became mandatory, so the cost of doing business must include these expected compliance costs. It is a minimum $10 per gallon. Spills are often hundreds and thousands of gallons at a time. Gravity can be designed to make the spills easier to detect, spill less sewage, easier to clean up, and pipes can be joined so water can't get in the joints as easily, but the bottom line is gravity should be avoided in our situation if at all possible.

The good news is that an alternative to gravity is aqvailable and at lower cost. I am sure all your questions can be answered by Ripley, Orenco, Paavo,Corollo, etc.

Also, since some one seems to want to use TRI W --keep in mind that Wastewater plants need to be secured, and TRI W is especially dangerous for an open water site.

Treated effluent however can be used for passive recreation, in a park pond, small lake, or created wetland or other use.

Anonymous said...

Liked your answer. Some one asked how large a pond would need to be. Any idea?

You said Tri-W is especially dangerous for an open water site. Why is that?

Anonymous said...

You how said....
"Smart clever bunch"? I think fools by any standards, 50% and small change, especially the obstructionists and people that listened to you nit-pick us to this distruction because of words like "sustainable" and "affordable".

Look---you just have to do more than blog! Do some reading!!!

"sustainable" and "affordable" analysis is required by congress and is NOW IN OUR application for the SRF loan...oh yes, you can read it.
But affordible was always there. AND email from the State to John Fouche confirmed were we at DOUBLE the index in the last project.

Quit fighting with incomplete information and dug in positions and let the alternative analysis process work.

Anonymous said...

Maybe you should do some listening! The CSD is BANKRUPT!!!

The County of San Luis Obispo has the sewer project, NOT the LOCSD!!!

Quit blaming everyone except the the CSD for this financial disaster! Forget the sewer! Start working on resolving the mess created by this CSD!!!

Anonymous said...

Hilderbrand ponds footprint for the plant, including the ponds was 11 acres. Bio-lac ponds 8-10 acres, trickling filter 3-5 acres.

Original ponds (faculatative/wetlands) 60 acres.

Main danger is drowning-kids are attracted to water-love to play in it. Any contact with raw sewage is a health hazard, and there is power panels, controls stations, chemicals, and other hazards that kids might think is fun to mess with. Skate parks and sewers don't mix well unless expensively secured and guarded.

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't any pond require security?

Anonymous said...

9:02 AM, February 20, 2007
listening?? It is bankruptcy protection.... Those suing the CSD need to stop. (TW) But they want the CSD to go bankrupt, and then complain about it. They wanted to dissolve the CSD...! The CSD did the right thing to save local government by releasing the sewer to the county. NOW LET them do their job.

I listen and hear a frightened person, Yes the town fought a war.. we all lost something. Now lets get on with it. Lets get the best project possible and the lowest overall cost. Can you focus on something positive?

Please read or get good information. If you can't research, then send questions to the Co for answers. Be open to getting a good project--one you may not have thought of before. Get out of the dug in position. Because compliance means a project and that stops CDO's, and can even stop this war.

Obstructionists formed the CSD and rejected the first Co project. Los Osoens are all obstructionists!
Obstructionsists can't build anything, they can only stop things. Stop obstruction...ha

Anonymous said...

The word out of the County is Tri-W is THE less expensive site by far!

What did Julie say about Tri-W and her filing a suit? Can you say OBSTRUCTIONIST.

Anonymous said...

I thought the TW has only one lawsuit on the table and that is not against the CSD, but is against the foolish 5 who paid THEIR personal lawyers for sueing and losing to the pre-recall CSD?

Measure B was illegal and struck down, what 3 times?

Ron said...

Ann wrote:

" I have been dismayed by some of the childish, sophomoric potty-mouths who post here. Id have never encouraged such embarassing stupidity but the alternative is to turn off all comments so people like yourself wouldn't be able to throw the word "piss" around and offend others but that would also mean that people who actually have thoughtfulthings to post would also be shut out. Or I could spend endless hours deleting everything I found offensive and juvenile and stupid, which would turn me into some kind of Mommy, which is also insulting since I expect readers and posters on this blog to be adults and behave accordingly. The real problem with having a comment section that allows Anonymous Posters is the Anonyminity makes them act in embarassing ways they never would if they had to own and claim their opinion and remarks."

Dismayed? That makes two of us.

On the administration section of my blog, I have the option to allow only registered users to comment (I don't use it, but at least I have that option). That might be a fair compromise to the current situation here, because, this anonymous, high school-bathroom, dumbing-down BS that's hijacked the comments section of this blog ever since the Shark Inlet Inc. budget ran out a few months back, is highly unfair to Ann, and to her readers... including me.

You might want to e-mail Newsstand Greg about that, Ann.

Look, there's a great reason I've only spent about 5 minutes reading the Trib's blog on this subject, and that reason is on full display in this comments section.

I have an idea, if you handful of anonymous commentors want to go about your business like you do, then why don't you just start your own blog? They're free. That way the five ot six of you that essentially make these comments sections unusable for the rest of can just go back-and-forth all you want, and you won't clutter up Ann's great blog with all that juvenile noise. And the ones of people that find any substance at all in your postings can just stop by your blog to read whatever it is you guys write about. Please consider that idea. It might work out for ya.

(Did you ever think you'd miss the days of Shark Inlet Inc., Ann? Me neither.)

*PG-13 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
*PG-13 said...

(ooops, had to fix a link.)

Many Anon's say (in so many words) > The County of San Luis Obispo has the sewer project, NOT the LOCSD!!!

Following up on my somewhat verbose (part 1 and part 2) but perhaps too late comments posted in response to Ann's blog of Feb 14 at 3:58 PM: On AnnonyMice & The Blogs-O-Fear
I'm curious about what might happen if the CSD does declare bankruptcy. No, I don't know anything about whether or when they will go out of business. I'm dumber than many of the other commentors here. And I do appreciate that the sewer is now in the hands of the county - hallelujah! But I'm curious about what the larger ramifications might be for all the citizens of Los Osos - both inside and outside of the PZ. So you'll know where I am coming from here is an excerpt from my previous comment noted above:

*pg-13 > Simply put, the sewer in all its many lives has consumed too much of the village commons. It is easy to get sucked into a game and spend more than you have. Been there, done that. But we've all been so focused on which CSD did what and how each sewer compares to the next we've kinda lost sight that the sewer is not the primary purpose of the CSD. Truth is, it is at best a secondary issue for the CSD at-large. Hey, I truly believe we need clean water and an effective waste treatment solution. And I'm on record for calling the RWQCB a bunch of megalomaniac incompetents and I still totally believe that beyond a shadow of doubt. They certainly haven't helped themselves, us or the environment. But I question whether the PZ sewer and dancing with the RWQCB is the primary CSD function it has become. If we were dealing with a total solution - one that encompasses and protects the whole basin and the water we all drink - then an argument might be made for the CSD to be involved. Otherwise, no. They've blown their (and our) wad. They're bankrupt. We're all bankrupt. We need to step away from the table.

So, if the CSD does blow away in the wind what then happens to other - non-sewer related - responsibilities of the CSD? That includes things such as water, drainage, parks, recreation, street lighting, solid waste, fire, emergency and rescue response. Would the county take over those too? Presuming the county doesn't want to own those responsibilities and would probably do almost anything not to have to assume those obligations, might there be a way for the CSD to continue - properly chastised and effectively bankrupt with not word about sewers - but still be the manager of these other functions? I could care less whether the CSD continues to exist or not - good riddance I say - but is there precedent for how these other services would be handled?

better days said > < .... Lot's of good stuff ..... >

Clearly you're from another planet. Please come back & post anytime.

Mike Green said...

PG, As far as I understand the mechanisms for dissolving a CSD ( I asked Sam about this same thing) the CSD board dose not have the ability to dissolve itself. It will require the blessings of LAFCO.
In the case of insovency, I think (and I may be wrong here, if anyone will chip in, great.) The County will assume responsibilty for required services in the interim, untill a decision by LAFCO either dissolves the board or the board resigns to be replaced by appointment untill either the next election or never if dissolution is effected.

Anonymous said...

I believe the County has already said they would consider appointments for vacant seats, but there are rules to be followed before that happens.

LAFCo has already stated that they would not allow a voluntary dissolution for a year after the previous attempt to force a dissolution from the outside.

It seems a declaration by the CSD of insolvency is in the offing as the County no longer trusts this CSD to manage some of the major bills and related tax collections.

The CSD has effectively shot itself in both kneecaps through poor financial management.

Anonymous said...

PG-13 said "But I question whether the PZ sewer and dancing with the RWQCB is the primary CSD function it has become. If we were dealing with a total solution - one that encompasses and protects the whole basin and the water we all drink - then an argument might be made for the CSD to be involved."

We should be dealing with the whole basin plan. THe basin plan has major flaws that got us into this mess. The solution must include all water quality issues of the basin, all people living on basin, and all the users of the basin water.

Anonymous said...

The CSD is a neutered, lame duck board with very little responsibility left.

The LOCSD buried itself in gallons of red ink and has filed for protection in Bankruptcy Court. The CSD's mission now is to clean up it's own fouled nest and develope a plan to begin paying off the huge debt they created!

The LOCSD has absolutely no business even thinking about a sewer, locally or regionally.

That said, if "WE" as individuals, or even as groups, (BUT NOT as the LOCSD) want to get involved with some project, have at it. You'll need to start with SLO County Planning.

Anonymous said...

Thank you 8:40AM for intelligent thoughts and information. It's a welcome relief.

Anonymous said...

The 50.01% voted in financial midgets. Unfortunately, the 49.9% have to also pay for their ignorance, arrogance and stupidity.

April 1st can't come soon enough.

Anonymous said...

What exactly is going to happen on April 1st, or is this an April Fool's Day prank?

*PG-13 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mike Green said...

April first a sewer will be delivered by airplane!
We have beeseeched the gods with sacrafice of cardboard and hot air!
We will be redeemed by the water Gods!
We will live bathed in clean water and sustainable purity.

Cargo Cult meeting to be held at the TriW site -April Fools Day!!! All Welcome!

*PG-13 said...

< bow & chant > What a great sewer! < /bow & chant >
< bow & chant > And so cheap too! < /bow & chant >
< bow & chant > Verily our God is great! < /bow & chant >

See ya there! Bring your drums!

Mike Green said...

Cant wait! Scotch?

*PG-13 said...

.
ooops, sorry Mike. I inadvertantly posted my previous comment to the wrong blog-thread. So I deleted it here and move it there. For the rest of you the comment Mike is responding to is here. But I think it plays almost as well here too.

Sorry about the confusion.

Anonymous said...

Oh My God, it must be a full moon!

Did I accidently log in to a Twilight Zone episode?

I heard you where having a mature discussion of the April 1st Declaration of Insolvancy. Is this the right place?

Pass the Glenfiddich!

*PG-13 said...

uh, yeah. Obviously I started my party a little early. No sense putting off a good celebration. That's what my granddady taught me.

Mike Green said...

It's a new moon with the highest and lowest tides!
As far as a mature discussion about insolvancy, well, almost nobody realy knows what will happen. It's extreamly rare for a CSD to file for bankruptcy and become insolvent, especialy for the size of our CSD.
Orange County comes to mind, but they had the ability to grow their tax base and survive.
That's why I support the Cargo Cult!
Magic! Thats the ticket.
Glenfiddich?
O.K.
Personaly I'm more of a Beer and Wine person, but you and PG should get on like a house on fire!

Mike Green said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Word is, by April 1st, the CSD will voluntarily dissolve.

This cannot be soon enough. They have taken a viable municipality, a viable (and funded) sewer project, and pissed it all down the drain, all for the sake of ego, arrogance, and pure shittiness.

So, whoever you are, go and talk to those who did this, (Lisa, John, Chuck, Steve, Julie.)

Go and tell them what you think about their part in the destruction of Los Osos.

If these morons had left well enough alone, we would have a sewer
mostly built, by now.

But, OH NO, you "Move the Sewer" people just had to be spoiled brats.

Too bad we can't saddle you with all the costs!

Anonymous said...

I cannot believe that Ron would use this blog (as if it didn't alread promote HIS)
to once again *promote his blog* AND on the very first POST.

Ron, are you getting desperate? It sure looks like it!

Or are you and Ann the "Andersen's Split Pea Soup Non-Identical Twins"?

Sure as hell looks like it!

Anonymous said...

Mike Green:

We will sacrifice your cardboard misconceptions, at Midnight, at Sweet Springs Saloon. March 31st. Get a jump on April 1st.

Cardboard, and lots of water.

Anonymous said...

to Anon 8:53

I will remind you that if it weren't for the people you support, who created the CSD in the first place and promised us all cheaper, better, faster and then after 8 years presented our community with a sludge factory next to the library and upwind from the church for $250/month...NOT BETTER, NOT CHEAPER, NOT FASTER.....if it weren't for these lying assholes that you support, we all would of been hooked up to an out-of-town county sewer years ago and be paying $50-$70/month.........why don't you just eat my shit asshole.
QED

Churadogs said...

Ron Sez:"On the administration section of my blog, I have the option to allow only registered users to comment (I don't use it, but at least I have that option). That might be a fair compromise to the current situation here, because, this anonymous, high school-bathroom, dumbing-down BS that's hijacked the comments section of this blog ever since the Shark Inlet Inc. budget ran out a few months back, is highly unfair to Ann, and to her readers... including me."

Greg switched blog accounts and so the set up of this is now a bit different than it was. I'll ask to see if that feature's possible.
I suppose the devolution of the discussion is a normal process -- you can discuss and/or argue facts or information, but if you don't have any of that, then you're stuck with gossip about people and potty-mouth neener-neener stuff.

Anonymous said...

To our anonymous posters of 8:53 and 10:46 (both of you)

I agree with one of you wholeheartedly and disagree with the other. However, neither of your comments are much more than frustrated attempts to figure out who to blame.

The questions of the day that the CSD board and county are dealing with and that the CDO recipients and RWQCB need to deal with are more helpful to our discussion.

While it might be interesting to figure out who to blame it doesn't help our community very much. I would far rather figure out what to do next.

Anonymous said...

I agree with 8:16 AM. However, the opinion scribe of this blog is one of the cheerleaders of blame with daily blasts at all parties except those who created the blame game!

The continuation of misconceptions, distorted facts and blatant lies seems to be the modus operandi of Ms.Ann-in-wonderland as she trips along encouraging the mad hatter and maggot while rebuking water gods and every agency of authority. Off with their heads as she sails along making excuses for the queen and handmaiden.

Look back at both Ann's "opinions" and toss in a few of that good old boy Ron's self-sustaining toilets and you have a view into why the sewer war escaladed into a grade B movie with a few x rated scenes.

Blogs like this are nothing meaningful in the real world, merely an escape from reality. The real world consists of laws and Water Boards and County Planning Departments. CSD's exist throughout the real world, but in the case of Los Osos, it failed, partly because of egotistical activists who wanted their moment in the spotlight without any solid direction for their cause. It also failed in part because cheerleaders agitated the fringe groups with cutesy opinion columns. All the while facts became so distorted as to be meaningless.

Outside the caccoon of Los Osos, in the real world, CSD's work WITH the Water Boards, they actually receive CDO's and instead of crying foul, they work to correct the problems. What a concept, actually working together! But back in fantacyland, we would rather wage a crusade to fight the Water Boards and really, anyone who disagrees with our personal agenda. Look around, there are now several individual agenda's being pursued. Los Osos is so far out of the real world, that legitiment government had to step up and take over the sewer problem. The sewer is no longer a concern of the CSD! Yet, here we are with a cheerleader now crying foul, trying to case the Water Boards as bad guys, the County as incompetent, my God, it's amazing no one has been hung in the "center" of this none-town!

You can shut down this outlet of misconception because you are tired of hearing real people voicing their disgust for the extremist obstructionism or you can realize others too have the right to freedom of speech as you do and have strongly beat on your drum.

Churadogs said...

Anonymous sez:"Blogs like this are nothing meaningful in the real world, merely an escape from reality"

How strange, then, that you would spend so much time venting your and fury here. Might as well go holler down a well.

Anonymous also sez::"Look back at both Ann's "opinions" and toss in a few of that good old boy Ron's self-sustaining toilets and you have a view into why the sewer war escaladed into a grade B movie with a few x rated scenes."

It's unlikely you've read my columns because if you had you'd know that IF a whole lot of my questions had been answered long ago, a whole lot of this mess would never have happened.

No, you're angry and frightened (or vice versa) and just want to blame anyone you can think of instead of asking some serious questions about the entire PROCESS that went awry from day one and KEPT GOING awry because not enough people asked enough questions.(And if this community doesn't keep paying attention the process can still run amok -- Hello! Hello!) And instead of mocking Ron and his composting toilets comments, you really should go on his blogsite and read all that cached info he's got there. It's from REAL government agencies, not Los Ososian wing nuts.

As for whining that I'm threatening your free speech. Oh, pluueeeze, I'm just trying to figure out ways to stop some people from getting too childishly potty mouthed. Such neener-neener silliness is totally unnecessary.

Anonymous said...

Ann,

Now you're playing the blame game again. Who the hell cares whether Pandora or Julie caused the problem ... the question we need answered is what we ought to do next!

If the County comes up with a process that we view as somewhat flawed or "biased" towards or against Tri-W, should we bitch and moan and whine and fuss and try to torpedo their process? Or would it consider the possible consequences of such actions before taking them?

About the viability of the CSD and the culpability of the CSD in the CDOs ... should the CSD pay for PZLDF costs or not?

These are reasonable questions but blaming others isn't productive.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 10:46 PM:

My my, Kieth. Your potty mouth is unmistakable. Also, your memorized bullsh*t song and dance. Why don't you do something constructive?

Blogging and bullying are really not your forte'.

Anonymous said...

From an outsider looking in;

"...I'm just trying to figure out ways to stop some people from getting too childishly potty mouthed"

You seem to be focusing on the delivery and not the content of postings on your blog. The potty-mouth trash talk is somewhat reminiscent of the back of the room folks at CSD meetings. You don't seem to be open minded to the concerns of those who have had to put up with the potty mouths for the last 3 years. You also don't recognize the folks who also have done a lot of research in putting together a permitted and funded waste water project only to have the extreme element wage a continueing battle over their personal agenda to move the sewer at all cost or to not not even have a sewer.

Now the sewer is in the hands of the County, yet you continue to rail against even their preliminary planning. You still think the CSD is in some kind of control? Well Anne dear, just what part of fiscal failure don't you understand? The CSD has failed and is bankrupt. We are going to be paying those bills for a long, long time.

Ann, if you don't like the answers you are getting, then you haven't been listening all along!

Anonymous said...

4:55
I don't understand. You want to accept whatever project the county sends our way without question regardless of cost or effectiveness. You fear that questions will bring down the wrath of the RWQCB. Yet you do not want PZ citizens to question to legality of the actions of the RWQCB in a courtroom.

We live in a democracy. Citizens are allowed to speak up and question actions of government agencies. Citizens are allowed due process. Do you feel the the RWQCB is too powerful and above the law? If they have too much power over individuals, shouldn't we be challenging them all the way to a courtroom?

What is happening to this country?

Anonymous said...

Is that you, Richard LeGros, above @ 5:19PM?

The county does have the project, but they won't if the 218 fails.

The figures on step are more accurate now for the county to look at. The county can't dismiss the Peer Review.

Let me remind you it's bankruptcy PROTECTION. The SRF loan of 6.4 million is in there too. PROTECTION. That can be a good thing.

Everyone knows the the previous project did not have a secure funding source and that the CSD and/or county HAS to give a 218 vote. The recalled board did not, so stop blaming the new board for these incredible debts.

Face the facts, YOU did your part in the financial diaster that L.O. is in.

How do you suppose that the county can force just the PZ people to pay for that?

Anonymous said...

We had a project, not wistful fantacy. We have proved that Los Osos is incapable of local government through the direct actions of that CSD to bankrupt the District. You wanted that CSD and some pie-in-the-sky holistic non-sewer, well, you got it and you threw 8 years of dedicated work right down the drain. You screwed this community financially and now want to fight against the County's plan, whatever that may be? You still curse the RWQCB and wonder why I might be angry at your approach? You are about to find out that there are alot more of me's out here who are very much against fighting every government agency just because some crazy loon cries that they are corrupt. Have you really looked at the lies and corruption brought in by this CSD? If we were to follow your, or is it your puppet mistress, McPherson, we would end up having the State build a sewer at the highest cost per property in the nation. And damit, it's folks like you who have created this turmoil, NOT the RWQCB! NOT the past BOD!

Anonymous said...

To above,

You are SO wrong. There always were many different options and kinds of systems that could have worked, but your recalled board with Pandora's help, forced an unaffordable project that the wealthy wouldn't have to pay for. She's a clever woman, Pandora!

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:50 - do you want to know one of the reasons why Step/Steg didn't become the best of the best in the EIR? It required to much land for treatment and it would be too expensive.
Do you recall awhile back at a CSD meeting when Pres.Cessena actually stated that he wasn't concerned about the cost but that out of town was the most important thing.....
Can you say:hood-winked?

Anonymous said...

to: anon 9:03pm, 5:12(i'm not kieth dipshit and learn how to spell keith dumb ass), 5:19, & 6:40........


Question: "Why would the folks in the "back of the room" be so "potty mouthed" and upset?"

Answer: Because if it weren't for dealing with asshole obstructionist like you from 1998-2005 anon 9:03pm, 5:12, 5:19, & 6:40.. (Pandora Nash Karner & Solutions Group/Taxpayers Watch et al.) that fought aginst the origional County Plan in 1998, ......if it weren't for asshole obstructionists like you, everybody in Los Osos right now at this very minute, would be hooked up to an out-of-town County project and be paying no more than $70/month........What on God's great earth makes you(Solutions Group/Taxpayer Watch) think the County would listen to anything you have to say now? For it was the obstructionist of SOLUTIONS GROUP/SAVE THE DREAM/TAXPAYERS WASTE that stole, ripped off and deprived the Community of Los Osos an affordable COUNTY WASTEWATER PLAN. Don't forget County of San Luis Obispo, if it wasn't for the Solutions Group/TaxpayerWatch who lied to you and us in 1998, we wouldn't be in this mess, would we?.....

I say woe to the County if it decides to go back to a project that this Community has already rejected. If the County does not take TRI-W off the table via the viable project alternatives study before the 218, the County will see a Campaign against the 218 the likes of which no Community in America has ever seen before. If the County even thinks about taking our 2005 vote against TRI-W away from us, I will promise the County of San Luis Obiispo right now, that 2 million dollars of SLO County Taxpayers moneys will be flushed down the toilet and whose fault will it be for making the same mistake twice? Please don't tell me the fine minds of County would be so stupid as to listen to the recommendations of the very entity that destroyed their 1998 wastewater project.

Anonymous said...

You are in need of a good therapist. You are very sick!

This community has NOT rejected the Tri-W site inspite of your nasty mouth!

I do hope your coming stroke will be mercifully complete and you not suffer long.

Anonymous said...

I would love to hear an answer to a question of mine from folks such as 8:44pm who write that Tri-W was horribly expensive.

What makes you think that the County plan will actually save us money? What makes you think that another location will make things cheaper?

Please note that I've already read Ron's stuff and the Ripley project report (and lots of other stuff as well) and to me it seems quite clear that the delay involved in other locations will more than swamp any lowering of the costs one might be able to claim from STEP or other treatment methods.

With that being said, could you please tell me why making one mistake (voting for a CSD to begin with) should be compounded by another mistake, insisting that the likely cheapest option be off the table?

Anonymous said...

To blogger at 10:35 above:

See, you do want to kill people, riff-raff out, strokes, anything so you can build out to over 25,000 homes. You can get rich off of driving thousands out! Apparently killing people one way or another is easy for you.

All the while, only have 5,000 homes pay to clean the bay. While people in Cabrillo pay nothing! Nothing! Paavo originally said everyone would pay. Now he's changed his mind. The 218 law says everyone who benefits has to pay, but the county is letting some important people up in the hills (LeGros for one) off the hook completey.

I think most of us now have googled Prop 218 and know what a fast one the county is pulling!

For that matter, try googling "how to avoid Prop 218 in CA" to see what the recalled board studied and the county is reading.

Do you all remember when Paavo said they'd have to have a project selected before a 218? He's changed his mind on this too, the county is starting to act like the RWQCB when everything changes all the time to fit their agenda (for who Pandora? Roger Briggs? Jerry Gregory? )

Trust the county? I THINK NOT!

P.S.
I own a few rental properties and will not vote yes on a 218 until the county has a specific project and price (even though they've admitted they will add fees and charges later on top of the 218 assessment.) My VOTE IS NO UNTIL THEY PICK A PROJECT TO VOTE TO BE ASSESSED ON. I'm not stupid!

Anonymous said...

TRI-W IS NOT CHEAPER. THE COUNTY HAS NEW FIGURES NOW. TRY TO GET EDUCATED SO YOU CAN FINALLY SEE THAT THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL TRI-W WITH GRAVITY COLLECTION IS CHEAPER. GET REAL.

Anonymous said...

to the poster at 11:11 -- I've been reading blogs for hours tonight trying to catch up.

I agree with you on one thing, and one thing only. It was a mistake to form a CSD, and to be tricked and lied to by Pandora and bunch. We were tricked by her marketing. The county should have put in a sewer many years ago. I believe Pandora knew exactly what she was doing and helped the county all along and probably still is.

Anonymous said...

Good discussion on the costs: I say that Tri-W is more expensive and I know I am right so I don't even have to give you any evidence that will convince you.

If the County knows the various costs but we've not been told those costs by the County ... how do you know them? What are the estimated costs? How did they arrive at those estimates? What assumptions did they make? Are those assumptions reasonable?

Curious minds want to know ... but people who have already made up their minds try to make all the evidence match their preconceived beliefs.

Churadogs said...

Anonymous sez:" Now the sewer is in the hands of the County, yet you continue to rail against even their preliminary planning"

You completely misquote and misrepresent what I've said about the county. Let me repeat, since you obviously missed it: Wake up Los Osos. PAY ATTENTION to make sure the county stays on target with the PROCESS, that it's is transparent, accurate, fair, can withstand a peer review scrutiny, and dots the I's and crosses the T's, otherwise we may well be set up for another train wreck. In no way is that "railing" against anything, merely asking citizens to stay awake this time to avoid another mess.

Anonymous said...

Ann,

Perhaps you don't understand the conventions of quotation marks.

The individual you criticized for misquoting you had indeed quoted your words exactly.

Whether he or she misrepresented your opinions about the county, I don't know what your opinions actually are, but based on what you wrote in earlier blog entries that are reasonable person would think that you are railing against even (the county's) preliminary planning.

While you claim that your comments are only versions of watch out or process matters, the context in which you set those warnings would make many think you have complaints about the way the county has handled things thus far.

The only way to avoid yet another misstep in this long and winding journey is to focus on the truly important issues ... costs and benefits instead of the small potatoes. Insisting on perfection at every step and forcing us to go back to square zero every time one doesn't like the outcome is the Los Osos problem. The Solutions Group and the Recall board have both done it and we've suffered because of the poor decisions of both sides.

Ron said...

Ann wrote in response to an Anon:

"And instead of mocking Ron and his composting toilets comments..."

The comments I bring up about composting toilets are not mine, they are the comments of the staff of the RWQCB from a REAL government document, like I always cite.

An Anon:

"Who the hell cares whether Pandora or Julie caused the problem ... the question we need answered is what we ought to do next!"

Ken Lay would have loved that argument.

(Boy, I'll tell ya, that's actually kind of fun brain candy -- if that was the case in court: Who's most at fault? Julie or Pandora? And if all the evidence -- dating back to the Laurent/Coy supervisor race in 1992 (1992!), where Nash-Karner campaigned hard for Laurent -- was presented in a trial on who was most at fault for the problem, well, maybe it's just me, but I think it's pretty clear who would walk out of the courthouse after the verdict, and who wouldn't.)

Anon:

".. only to have the extreme element wage a continueing battle over their personal agenda to move the sewer at all cost..."

Extreme element: AKA -- The majority of Los Osos voters over the last three elections.

Anon:

"... you threw 8 years of dedicated work right down the drain."

Don't forget, the first two of those years were "dedicated" to the CSD's first failed plan -- the ponds. Then the other six were pretty much dedicated to covering up that failure, it sure would appear... and that group was very, very dedicated to that.

Anon:

"This community has NOT rejected the Tri-W site inspite of your nasty mouth!"

Tell that to the last three elections.

An Anon so succinctly wrote:

"I've been reading blogs for hours tonight trying to catch up.

I agree with you on one thing, and one thing only. It was a mistake to form a CSD, and to be tricked and lied to by Pandora and bunch. We were tricked by her marketing. The county should have put in a sewer many years ago. I believe Pandora knew exactly what she was doing and helped the county all along and probably still is."


Sounds like one of those blogs you were reading was mine. Well done... you caught up fast. And, by the recent looks of things, it appears that the county, at least county staff, hasn't forgotten what she did to their project in 1998. County staff keeps bringing up that year, and what happened in 1998 is taboo in Solution Group/Initial CSDville. That tells me that county staff is not down with her act, nor should they be.

I'm noticing some tension between county staff and the supervisors on the Nash-Karner issue. Two supervisors went out of their way at a recent meeting to praise her work, and then unanimously re-appointed her to the county parks commission. Yet, county staff keeps bringing up 1998. That's excellent stuff, and something to keep an eye on. I smell tension.

Before I go, I think I speak on behalf of ALL county residents, Taxpayers Watch -- we want the $28,000 you owe us!

As J.T. would say, "Bring it on."

Whadaya say, Ann? Let's see if we can crack the "200 comments" barrier, huh?

Anonymous said...

Anon said:
".. only to have the extreme element wage a continueing battle over their personal agenda to move the sewer at all cost..."

Ron replied:
"Extreme element: AKA -- The majority of Los Osos voters over the last three elections."

If you mean the LAST election as one of the three, please note these facts:

1. The person with the MOST votes was Joe Sparks. He is not tied to any sewer technology or location.

2. Incumbents rarely lose elections.

3. Incumbents illegally used Sam Blakeslee's photo on their mailer just prior to the election, implying his support (which they did not have).

4. Incumbents spent more money on their campaign than any of the other candidates, probably more than all 8 other candidates combined.

5. Other than Joe Sparks, the other candidates fell into the "unknown" category or the "kinda out there" category.

I would think to be fair, you might include the above information when assessing how people voted, Ron.

Anonymous said...

If Ron lived in Los Osos more weight could be assigned to his viewpoints, but he doesn't live here!

Anonymous said...

Ron,

You are right with your Ken Lay comment.

I should have been more clear ... aside from those who really care about whether criminal wrongdoing has transpired ... it doesn't matter whether Julie or Pandora is to blame because our real issue is what to do next.

Those like you who get off on attributing blame can go and knock yourselves out ... just remember that your discussions really should have little bearing on what Los Osos ought to do next. We can't turn back the clocks to 1998 and vote against the CSD or turn back the clocks to 2005 and vote against a recall. We've made our horribly rumpled bed ...

Even so, the real questions we do have before us are how we're going to interact with the County now that they're in charge and whether we want the LOCSD to continue to exist and how we deal with the RWQCB about CDOs.

So, go ahead and blame Pandora or Julie or whomever you want to ... please remember that your questions are about as relevant to our day-to-day lives as blaming Bush II for getting us into the Iraq war ... the real problem is figuring out the best way to get out.

Anonymous said...

The problem with our community is the continued infighting rather than focusing on the past. If we ignore the past, we will only keep repeating our mistakes.

A lesson that we need to internalize is that the RWQCB is never going work with us. They are going to continue to obstruct the process, now using CDOs as their tool. As we try to move forward on the project, we must protect our citizen’s right to make decisions without their fear tactics.

The appeal of CDOs is providing this defense, protecting our citizens as we move forward. If the waterboard knows that their actions will be scrutinized in a real courtroom, they are forced to play a bit closer to the rules. This defense requires that some people keep focused on transgressions of the past and present.

Hopefully this defensive effort will allow Los Osos and the county to work through the process of planning designing, and implementing a waste water system without undue influence from this incompetent and corrupt government agency.

Anonymous said...

To above:

I guess you want to trust the county (to work through the process)....

Do you really believe that the RWQCB, Blakeslee and the county aren't all working together (for the same project) -- I guess you haven't gone into public records request to look at how the county plotted and planned with Blakeslee to screw us all.

The CDO's are nothing more than a tool to scare everyone to vote yes on the 218.

The county is having a 218 before a project is picked.

You think that they county wants step! Don't be stupid. The county loves Pandora and will work with her to rid the town of all but the wealthy!

P.S.
the corrupt agency is the county -- get real!

Anonymous said...

The Gran Conspiracy against the Monarchy of Los Osos!

Unfortunately, it appears our own corruption will rise above those of the County or even the State.

Anonymous said...

To above:

We'll see about that in the near future!

Anonymous said...

anon 5:15, you said:
"…the county plotted and planned with Blakeslee to screw us all."

Getting a sewer built is screwing us? How do you think one WOULD get built in Los Osos? Or are you a believer in "magic sand?"

Anonymous said...

From what I've observed the county plotted and planned with Blakeslee to take over the project (LAFCO helped) shorty after the recall to insure the Tri-W project was going in. The current board couldn't do it, are weak. Maybe the county is the only one who can do it, but the "back room deals" make them look bad

The RWQCB over stated the pollution problem, and the county knows a mega-sewer won't correct it. Why does everyone want the megasewer then?

Just asking.

Anonymous said...

anon of 8:54 PM, February 24, 2007

By "megasewer" are you refering to Tri-W?

The County is putting together 4 proposals for WWTF - Tri-W is one of the four. How does this insure that Tri-W is going in? What if Tri-W turns out to be cheaper?

Anonymous said...

What's the definition of a "megasewer" as it applies to Los Osos on any site?

Anonymous said...

"Megasewer" is an undefined term that has been coined by Tri-W and sewer opponents ... it sounds bad and conveys that message well. However, without substance it is a term which serves little purpose other than to identify those who can't think clearly about the issues (or worse yet, choose not to think clearly).

Simply put ... anyone using the phrase is immediately to be doubted and unless they can immediately provide a sound definition when asked, they will have proven themselves part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

[Note: the same could be said about a guy named Drake (is that it?) who was promoting Tri-W but didn't seem to have a handle on the basics of Los Osos history and politics let alone the science of the problem.]

Anonymous said...

I would think that megasewer would refer to Paavo's idea to build a giant plant and import all the county's waste to Los Osos. By importing shit, we could reduce individuals costs making the sewer more affordable.

Let's do it. We could build it at Tri W. Pumper trucks, all day long, delivering the county's shit to our beautiful downtown sewer park. We could pump it into a big holding pond (called Pandora's Pond), and build a new rec center with paddle boat rentals and a pier for fishing for floaters. We could hold swimming competitions for those who prefer extreme sports. Jeff Edwards could build a hotel next to it, Make it a fine tourist attraction.

Anonymous said...

Hell, we might even move the middle of town around our sure to become tourist attraction. Lisa can sell baked goods in the shop next to Julie's Phychic and Tarot Room. Al of course would be the docent.

Send your tax deductible contributions to Chucky!

Churadogs said...

Ron sez:"Whadaya say, Ann? Let's see if we can crack the "200 comments" barrier, huh?"

Is 200 now the target? Was that set by some other blog? It amazes me that we not nearly 143 on this posting alone. Wow.

Anonymous said...

Wow. Ann's blog is happening.

One comment, the higher the price tag on the sewer, the more people that have to go. Get it? All seniors and working families, are outta here. That's the plan.

Talking about grant money - isn't going to happen, it's only a PR move to make people think they'll get some help. All we will get is $1 in grant money.

Churadogs said...

Anonymous sez:"Anonymous said...
Wow. Ann's blog is happening. "

Actually, this blog has turned into All Sewer All The Time. It's interesting that the folks who log on apparently have no interest in anything EXCEPT the sewer and/or calling each other names and ranting and venting or making stuff up and floating rumors. Makes you wonder what will happen to them when this project finally gets done and they'll have to actually get a life? Or go into sewer rehab?

Honest, there are other things going on worth commenting on and discussing besides the sewer.

amazing.