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Thursday, June 07, 2007

Calhoun’s Cannons, The Bay News, Morro Bay CA for June 6, 07


Mother’s Day

What experience and history teach is that people and governments have never learned anything from history. G.W.F. Hegel

“Good-bye America . . . you are not the country that I love and I finally realize no matter how much I sacrifice, I can’t make you be that country unless you want it. It’s up to you now.”

Thus spoke Cindy Sheehan as she “retired” from the anti-war movement she helped start when she showed up on President Bush’s Crawford, Texas, front doorstep, media in tow, to ask the one question the American Public didn’t want answered: Exactly why did my [soldier] son die in Iraq?

Her son died in Baghdad three years ago. There are now over 3,400 Moms, many of whom are asking the same question, with more added each day. And still the question goes unanswered, which is exactly the way most Americans want it.

Lord knows, they had ample opportunity to demand an answer and make major changes in their government’s bungled and failing mess of a PNAC war policy during the last few elections. But instead of a veto-proof check-and-balance in Congress, Americans voted to make only a modest change, a change that would ensure a grid-locked, do-little Congress that would soon shift the focus from a fatally flawed policy with daily deaths in a real war with little or no real solution in a far-away country, to an even more urgent problem: How do I delay any real change so as to cover my behind, while setting up the enemy so I can inflict maximum damage on him and his political party in order to win in November?

While it’s a superb new war policy designed to capture and pacify Washington, it won’t help any of our soldiers who will go on dying in Baghdad. But, that’s o.k., since that’s also what the American people apparently had in mind as well.

Which is what Cindy Sheehan apparently didn’t understand. America hadn’t changed. What her son died for is exactly what all Mothers’ soldier-sons and daughters die for: Money, power, resources, land, more money, and looney political notions all tricked up with the constant drum-beat of fear-mongering lies and falsely conflated “facts” cut to fit a preset policy -- Domino Theory, Gulf of Tonkin, WMD, 9-11/Iraq --it’s so easy – all covered over with slam-dunk jingo about Democracy & Freedom. Give it an exciting new TV theme song, toss in plenty of really cool high-tech weapons, lots television-ready visual Shock & Awe for a ratings-obsessed, cheerleading media, and Americans will buy it every time.

And God help anyone who starts asking tough questions. Americans hate party poopers and like Cindy, they’ll be slimed as Liberal Commie-Pinko America Haters, then dismissed.

And why not? This is all unlearned history repeating itself: Young men love war and old men love the money that comes from making war. It is the perfect crime: siphon off the profits, stick the taxpayer with the debt and human debris, then scamper off the political field for a well-paid job as head of some multi-national corporation and/or get a huge advance for your tell-nothing book blaming The Other Guy. It’s a bad summer rerun we never tire of.

Best of all, pre-emptive wars-for-profit are especially easy so long as you follow certain rules: First, make sure that the war you want to start takes place in somebody else’s yard, preferably far away in an obscure country filled with poor, easily demonized “foreigners.” Second, make sure your war is small enough to only involve our full time professional, all volunteer Army. These men and women are not Mothers’ sons and daughters like draftees are, full of dangerous questions. Instead, they are expendable Government Issue weapons of the Corporate/ Military/Industrial/Political Complex. As long as their deaths are kept to a reasonable daily minimum and don’t interrupt our favorite TV shows, most Americans won’t care all that much. After all, killing and dying is what professional warriors are getting paid to do.

It’s a great game that Americans continue play for fun and profit every generation. That’s what Cindy Sheehan apparently didn’t understand when she started her journey. Her son died for a piece of ginned-up fiction that once again killed one group of people while making another group of people very rich indeed. And it was all so easy because Americans and their government refused to learn anything from experience or history.

28 comments:

4crapkiller said...

Unmitigated "code pink" speculation throughout the piece.
There is not a mom that does not grieve the loss of her child, but you do not have the statistics, nor do I, of how many consider their loss heroic and the death of their son or daughter worthwhile for humanity. Freedom has a price, and to give freedom to others, is a noble sacrifice.

The poor grief-stricken, and terribly confused Cindy was used terribly by the move-on.org crowd. After many pronouncements and "Hate Bush" rants, it was clear that she had lost a good part of her mental facilities, and she was totally abandoned by the "code pink" and move-on crowd.

Most clear thinkers on the outside sympathized with her from the beginning, realizing her plight, and understood who was fueling her fire.

The worst part was they fueled her for political gain, and after they had used her, they cast her to the garbage heap.

I guess you would welcome everyone to the "Hotel California". You can't get out because of your "beliefs" and would wish everyone to join you. Not this old gal!

Your whole article is rubbish! Let Cindy be!

*pg-13 said...

4crapkiller > There is not a mom that does not grieve the loss of her child, but you do not have the statistics, nor do I, of how many consider their loss heroic and the death of their son or daughter worthwhile for humanity.

Please forgive me but this isn't a statistic kind of thing. One mom, one dead kid. Simple equation. Simple question. Why? Why do you need lots of 'em before you consider the question statistically valid?

Anonymous said...

Crap says Cindy Sheehan was used by the code-pink and moveon organizations. I say the American soldier was used by the sinister Rove/Bush/Cheney "Project for the New American Century" organization.

3400 and counting. I can only hope there's a special place in hell for the Bush crime family.

4crapkiller said...

Pg-13:

Ann stated:

"Her son died in Baghdad three years ago. There are now over 3,400 Moms, many of whom are asking the same question, with more added each day. And still the question goes unanswered, which is exactly the way most Americans want it."

4crapkiller stated:

"There is not a mom that does not grieve the loss of her child, but you do not have the statistics, nor do I, of how many consider their loss heroic and the death of their son or daughter worthwhile for humanity. Freedom has a price, and to give freedom to others, is a noble sacrifice."

Pg-13 then stated in response to 4crapkiller:

"Please forgive me but this isn't a statistic kind of thing. One mom, one dead kid. Simple equation. Simple question. Why? Why do you need lots of 'em before you consider the question statistically valid?"

You are forgiven in that perhaps you should have been replying to Ann as I was. I was kinder, and you are absolutely correct! When it comes to losing a child, it is you and the child that counts. Ann used speculative vague statistics, and I took her to task for just THAT.

Otherwise, there is no such thing as statistics based upon a single event, you and I both know that.

As for anon 1:18: I only mentioned that Cindy was used and discarded. You are intitled to your statistics which appear correct. However as a "Bush" hater, you might consider that he did not do this on his own or strictly with his unelected appointees. You might look to the vote by both sides of the aisle authorizing him to take action. Votes by intelligent people, our represntatatives.

Please consider that during the second world war, 21 million lost their lives. 400,000 Americans to achieve freedom for an enslaved Europe. It was a result of trying to pacify Hitler. During the Vietmanese war, the tragedy was that the congress cut off the spending, and as a direct result 2.5 million Cambodians were slaughtered thereafter along with uncounted Vietnamese.

Please rejoice in your unfounded speculation of "hell". Nobody has ever come back to tell us about it.
There is no proof it exists. I haven't heard of anyone coming back from "heaven" either.

If you think the American soldiers are being used, why do they continue to re-enlist? Do they think they are not contributing to a noble cause? They are not stupid you know, but I really wonder about you.

Churadogs said...

Crap sez:"Ann used speculative vague statistics, and I took her to task for just THAT."

I had written:" Her son died in Baghdad three years ago. There are now over 3,400 Moms, many of whom are asking the same question, with more added each day."

Uh, do you see a "statistic" in "many?" I don't. If I had said, "79% of whom . . ." you'd be correct. But many is a statistic?

As for "The worst part was they fueled her for political gain, and after they had used her, they cast her to the garbage heap"

I would claim the same for the photo-ops of "moms" of dead souldiers used by the administration. I find it also extremely interesting that Bush & Cheny so rarely address audiences of "real" people. Almost always, they're publically speaking lnly at military bases & etc. It's a sort of preaching to the choir, so to speak. Plus it has the built in safety of knowing everyone there is under orders to keep quiet when their Commander in Chief is talking. Unlike addressing a "normal" crowd of citizens.

Crap sez:"During the Vietmanese war, the tragedy was that the congress cut off the spending, and as a direct result 2.5 million Cambodians were slaughtered thereafter along with uncounted Vietnamese."

I wish you would read the first two hundred or so pages of "A Bright Shinning Lie: John Paul Vance and the American Experience in Vietnam," the section on the long --lethal -- history of Vietnam. There in plainest English, is the disaster that awaited countries who did NOT bother to read the history of Vietnam. As for Cambodia, that was purest blowback, yet another casuality caused by yet another country that did NOT bother to read the history of Vietnam. It won't take long to read that part. I would urge you to do so. The conclusion from any rational person is stark. (And terribly deja vu-ish, since the exact same thing happened vis a vis Iraq: refusal to understand its history -- arrogance combined with ignornace. A lethal combination)

Crap also says:"If you think the American soldiers are being used, why do they continue to re-enlist? Do they think they are not contributing to a noble cause? They are not stupid you know, but I really wonder about you."

As I wrote, young men love war. It's a guy thing. Been joining up for a gazillion years. Plus, professional soldiers know full well what their job is -- We who are about to die, Salute You -- As for "nobel causes," some feel that way, others have their loyalty strictly to their unit, while others finally figure out they've been conned and get the hell out. Meantime, as Professionals, they do their duty.

What angers and saddens me is that this country is not worthy of the soldiers who were so cavelierly sent to Iraq to be maimed, injured and killed in a ginned up, incompetently-run war, voted on by a cowardly Congress not doing their oversight job properly, supported by an apathetic public. Those soldiers deserved better.

4crapkiller said...

Ann: Why do you hate this country? Why do you think we are not worthy?

Maybe you bitch and moan because the vast majority in this country does not support the anti-war movement and your views. Maybe the intelligent understand that being in Iraq is the right thing, worth our blood, treasure, and grown children. Maybe they are concerned with future generations, understanding consequences of no action. Maybe they understand that terrorism is best defeated overseas and from an offensive position. I guess the American people are apethetic because they do not agree with you. I feel that the American people, in this internet age and talk radio, are involved, dispite control of content by the major media. They vote, at least those that care, for their representatives who they expect to make proper decisions. And you call these reprsentatives cowardly because they do not agree with you? Most of the time I do not agree with what they do, many times I disagree with the POTUS.
However, I do not call him names and insult him. I am an American, and he is my elected leader. To disrespect him is to disrespect myself and my country.
Young men love war? Tell that to the mess who moved to Canada to avoid the draft. Lame. Guy thing? You insult the women in the armed forces.

You think our guys are over in that rotten Irag land because they love war and enjoy seeing their buddies die? Could it be because they actually believe that the war is worthwhile? It is a volunteer military. I am afraid most would take extreme difference with your views. It is the smartest, most technically advanced military in the world. Also the most regulated.

Previously, on two occasions, we saved Europe with our industrial might, labor, blood, and treasure supplied by regular Americans, men and women. We saved South Korea. Vietnam was Cardinal Spelman's war. Catholics were getting chopped up in great numbers. We all knew about how the French were tossed out with great casualties years before we entered the frey. I guess we are too humanitarian, trying to save the down trodden catholics at the behest of Spelman. But we have always helped the down trodden. It is part of our Christian ethic.

Every book that impresses you because it supports your opinion is opposed by other books that do not. I guess you pays your money and takes you choice as to what YOU read.

Our nation is the leader of the world, and the strongest nation in the world. We are forced to step up with military action mostly because other nations and the useless corrupt UN doesn't want to put ACTION behind their words.
We take action because it is in our national interest.

It is amazing to me that the congress people who voted to authorize the war, and took joy in the capture and death of Sadam
are now nitpicking because things are difficult. Now they are against the war. But like the LOCSD who stopped the sewer, they wish to pull our troops and do not consider the consequences. And Iran wishes nuc capabilities to destroy Israel. If we leave, who is to buffer Israel, and Isaral is the FIFTH largest nuc power in the world.

Of course you are angry and sad! I do not blame you. Things are not going well: you state "incompetently run war". I ask what war has ever been run competently? The terrorists do not want to stop their activities. Go talk to them. I know what they want, have you listened to them? Do you think we created them like that slick lawyer Edwards said the other day? You wish change, I wish change, and maybe it will come without the destruction of millions of lives. I hereby dubb you "the lady of La Manchia". Continue to tilt at windmills.

The American people are not stupid. Impatient perhaps, easily duped maybe, but we all recognise lies and political agenda sooner or later. FYI Bush and Cheney talk to he troops to boost their morale. They actually support the troops, as do I. The anti-war crowd does not. I remember when the troops came home from Vietnam. I remember when Kerry testified in front of congress. I am glad it cost him the election, 20 + years later. He was a traitor then, and tried to morph into a hero later on.

Thank you for the time taken to reply.

Anonymous said...

I was getting ready to reply to the above post by crap but realized there is so much unmitigated bullshit written in it I wouildn't know where to start. If you don't support the war you don't support the troops; if you don't support the war you don't like America; if you don't support the war you support terorists; 911 actually had something to do with Iraq; etc etc etc. Yikes!!!!!! If ignorance was bliss, crap and her neocon brethren are the happist people on earth. Stick to the sewer war crap, I actually think you make some sense there. Your other views are just, well...let's just say "distorted" to be nice.

Anonymous said...

"He was a traitor then, and tried to morph into a hero later on."

Please inform us how your neo-con hero's Bush and Cheney distinguished themselves in the service of their county in Vietnam.

Much thanks.

*pg-13 said...

Anon > I was getting ready to reply to the above post by crap but realized there is so much unmitigated bullshit written in it I wouildn't know where to start.

Ditto, ditto, ditto and ditto. Anon 12:35 literally took the words right off my keyboard. There was sooooooooo much begging for a response but ....... to what end? When you're hollering at a brick wall the only reason for continuing to holler is if you get something out of it. The brick wall is pretty much inert. It is beyond words, any reason, logic or sentience. It's a brick wall for dog's sake! I speak from experience. I've chatted with, holler'd at and beat my head against a few brick walls in my past. (I'm a slow learner.) But 4crap is one of the denser (in every sense of the word) stack of bricks I've ever run across. And this latest post proves that beyond any doubt. My dog, can 4crap really and truly not even begin to see herself. Does she really believe this crap? I usually try to give everybody the benefit of an alternative perspective cuz that's the reality we live in. But at some point perspectives hafta be labelled what they really are: weird, warped delusion. Human minds posses truly huge capacity for delusion.

Happy weekend all.

4crapkiller said...

To anon 12:35 and PG-13:

Anti war activists have never supported the military (troops). They are pacifists, and military force is anathma. Soldiers are looked at as "tools" of the military industrial complex by anti-war activists. If you support the troops, support them and the generals who lead them along with the supreme commander. They are directed by the will of the American people through their representatives. If you are a true pacifist, become one for religious reasons, not political for political gain.

PG-13: I never suspected that you were a brick wall. I never called you a brick wall. Of course, you come across many brick walls. I am sure you have difficulty with people who do not believe in your "dog" and view of reality. When you cannot reply with logic, you call names. The fact that you do this just makes you look like a fool like Franc4. Seems to me that you are one that when things get tough, you go shopping.

We have a very bad situation in the middle east with the potential of costing tens of millions of lives, disruption of 25% of the words oil supply that would put the world into severe depression and starvation. The stakes are high. So far you have offered no solution to the problem. My solution is to stick it out.

If you want to deal with a stack of bricks, deal with the Islamic Jihadists. I am afraid that we live in a conflict of civilizations. It will be settled eventually by those with the most guts, willing to spill the most of their own blood.

Apparently the jihadists do not care how much of their own blood is spilled, they just want to be sure that others spill far more.

Is there anything you feel is worth fighting for?

To anon 1:16: Bush and Cheney never participated in the Vietnam war. Their lack of experience has not helped their decisions. They were stuck with listening to generals, and tried to win a war on the cheap with a minimum loss of our soldiers, and with a military at it's lowest levels in the past 30 years.

And we have lost 3500 heros in the past three years? 4500 teenagers get into a car every year in the United States and never return alive.

So who do we save and help, and who do we NOT. Or just let things be and handle the consequences when they occur.

Anonymous said...

Fair enough Crap, so please define 'stick it out'. Don't make it an anti-troop debate. Define 'stick it out'. What is the goal? Is Iraq becoming more stable? If not, do you want to add more troops, and why do you think that would help? If it is, at what point do we leave? Do we leave? They have had elections, the Shiites are in control. Do we just withdraw, except for Kurdistan? The problem is that the President is not defining the war. The Public does not understand the war. If it's a war, the President should be talking about the war ALL the time, every minute until the goals, whatever they are, are achieved. Why are we not on rations if we are in a war? Why are we not putting in a draft if we are in a war? A war IS a national crises, so if we are in one, as the President says, why is he dawdling. The war will define him, he has two years left to leave a legacy other than worn-down troops and equipment in Iraq and leave the US weakened, but he dawdles. He is supported but I want him to act like a President should in a war. What do we do about Iran's influence in Iraq? He is not clear, and it is evidence by the high turnover in Generals that our military does not have stable leadership. It starts at the top. The turnover in Generals with Clinton and Bush is appalling. I don't have the answers but this is not leadership by either the President or Congress.

4crapkiller said...

To anon 5:40PM:

"Stick it out" means let this new idea with increased force gain momentum and listen to the general's report in September. Most of Iraq is stable. Our news comes from the Sunni triangle from mostly a biased press. There is good news, but our population seldom hears of it. Hopefully the level of training of Iraqi forces will improve and they will pick up increased civilian support. It is hard to find civilian support with limited electricity, water, and sewerage in Baghdad. Civilians need creature comforts to protect. They need security. Very few creature comforts now, little security in the Sunni triangle. The Iraqi government needs to step up to the plate and stop posturing. They need to seal their borders with Iran and Syria. The Syrians are fueling the Sunnis and the Iranians the Shiites. Al Queda or wannabes are wacking both, hoping for a full stage religious war.

The president has been weak and ineffective against the criticism of the democrats, who wish complete power. This poor guy has hoped to produce political consensis with his devout enemies, who despise him for taking a way their power twice.
This guy cannot fight. He should have labeled his enemies as such, and individually, and beat the hell out of them. He is no Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, or Regan. He is almost a Jimmy Carter clone.

He has been told by many advisors about this, and has failed to fight . I consider him a chicken shit. Good ideas, on the right side of hummanity, but absolutely no balls. Appearing presidential seems more important than fighting. I voted for him as a lesser of two evils. He is my president and I support him, as opposed to democrats wearing t shirts saying "George Bush, NOT my president!" There has been a high turnover of generals. Probably because they have asked to do things and he has vacillated.

Any rational person in Iraq would understand that, because of the vocal anti war movement in the US fueled by democratic leaders, that the US lacks resolve for the long haul. There is a lot more "against" rather than "for" on the news. They control content. Good stuff does not make news, blood and gore does.

Let him issue an ultimatum to Iran to cease and desist. Same thing with Syria. Give them a date that if they do not to evacuate their cities if they do not cease and desist. Threaten neutron bombs.
Put hit squads into both countries to assasinate their Jihadist Imans.
Or put a price on their ears. Plenty of mercinaries available.

We need a strong decisive leader who is not afraid to call a spade a spade and lay out consequences.

Otherwise, let's just leave and let them blow themselves up. Let Israel take care of Iran and incinerate Damascus.

There is a good chance it will come to this regardless within three years.

Anonymous said...

So Crap, does this mean your solution would be to use nuclear bombs on any country that does not comply with a CDO???

Anonymous said...

Just a few select homes in LO, goes by the Code Name: Taking the CSD Garbage out

Anonymous said...

To anon 9:26PM;

Hey, we are the strongest nation. It is about time to start acting like it.

In world politics, might makes right. Always has been, always will be. It is the nature of humans.

I am glad you perhaps understand this concept. I am sure
because you live in Los Osos and are facing CDOs. The water board understands the concept.

Churadogs said...

Crap sez:"Ann: Why do you hate this country? Why do you think we are not worthy?"

Hate this country? Didn't you read what I had written about anyone asking questions being "slimed?" Such a typical comment -- slime the messanger so as to dismiss the message. This country is not worthy of the sacrifices of the soldiers dead in Iraq(and Vietnam) because both administrations DID NOT LEARN FROM HISTORY and so CARELESSLY and STUPIDLY and POINTLESSLY threw those lives away unnecessarily. (There was a reason I suggested you read "A Bright Shinning Lie." I would also suggest you start reading some of the excellent books now coming out as to just how insanely and incompetently the Iraq invasion was run. There was a reason I had previously written in an earlier column that Bush & Co should have called up the old MI-5 types in England -- who were present at the creation of Iraq -- and ask them what our army would face if they invaded and I know those old guys would have said, "Don't do it, Sonny, don't do it."

We have the best military in the world. Why did and do we contine to waste it like these men and women were expendable pieces of old junk. Instead, why not learn from history and so so make far smarter decisions and far better use of our resources.

But, in your eyes, I guess objecting to a badly planned, badly run, badly supplied, totally unnecessary, thoroughly bungled war that got so many of our troops killed is Hating America and Hating the Troops. Right, sure.

crap alzo sez:"Every book that impresses you because it supports your opinion is opposed by other books that do not. I guess you pays your money and takes you choice as to what YOU read"

Once again, you didn't read what I wrote. I strongly urged you to read the first couple of hundred papers of A bright Shinning Lie. it was the HISTORY of Vietnam. FACTS, not opinion. And it held a profoundly critical lesson that, in our arrogance, we decided to ignore. Clearly you have no interest in understanding what those FACTS pointed to. That's your hcoice, but please don't claim that Vietnam's history -- and it's a long one -- is merely Opinion. It isn't.

Crap alzo sez:"If you support the troops, support them and the generals who lead them along with the supreme commander."

Pluuueeeze, pllueeeze read Barbara Tuchman's "The March of Folly." Please. More history. Also toss in "The Guns of August." Please.

Crap also sez:"incinerate Damascus."

Incinerate Damascus. Is there anything anyone can say after such a wish? Amazing.

Anonymous said...

Use Neutron Bombs over the entire Muddle East! Only removes all living objects and leaves our oil safe!

Anonymous said...

Crapkiller, given our Pres. seems unwilling to do any of those things you suggested, wouldn't you agree it is time to get out and, as you say, let them blow themselves up?

Anonymous said...

Crapkiller, another alternative would be to read more books, as Ann suggests. Perhaps the Pres. should order the Generals, who he doesn't listen to in the first place, to read more books. They probably didn't get a decent education at West Point or Annapolis.

Anonymous said...

Nothing has changed since '98, Paavo is still working for Pandora.

Paavo was her GM, she was the CSD, now she's the county and he's the county...ain't it sweet?

All of this is just one big off broadway show.

Anonymous said...

What the hell does the above commnet have to do with Ann's piece "Mother's Day?"

Anonymous said...

Just typical of the obstructionist way of life. Everything revolves around their sewer or not sewer world.

4crapkiller said...

Ann: Why don't you tell us what is really good about this country. Tell us what you would do to stop the march of terror. Tell us what will happen to the women with blue fingers when we leave Iraq.

Today I attended a flag day celebration by Republicans in Sta. Margarita.

Code Pink was there in their "Code Pink Police" outfits. They carried signs: "investigate 911", "peace", "no war", "stop the war", and "democracy". Rudy Gulliani spoke about freedom and what is good about America despite our mistakes. The ten "code pink police" were of excellent demeanor. (500 republicans were there). Only "code pink" thinks our own administration caused 911 along with the leftists.

I guess you will suggest a book for me to read to support this stupidity. I certainly have heard enough about it from Rosie O'Donnell. (another clear thinker).

Then it occurred to me: CODE PINK DID NOT HAVE A SIGN TO SUPPORT FREEDOM.

Rudy was speaking about the importance of freedom on flag day and the "code pink police" were protesting by their presence. I do not think the "code pink police" are willing to protect us from the jihadists. I do not think they have any idea of what is going on. They are allowing themselves to be used for political purposes. Airheads with no understanding of the benefits of freedom.

And there it is. Did you go to a flag day celebration? Do you know of a democratic party flag day celebration here on the coast? Did "code pink" have a flag day celebration?

By the way, what is your solution to stop the Israelis from defending themselves with a nuclear preemptive strike against Iran and then Syria who have been very vocal about the destruction of Israel.

The Israelis are very nervous! I do not support the incineration of Damascus. I wish to prevent it. I worry about the women there. You took a cheap shot. I hope one of your dogs craps in your bed in response.

I feel that you are seditious in time of war. You, along with Harry Reed, Nancy Pellosi, and your moveon.org fellow travelers are aiding and abetting terrorists. You sure as hell are hurting our troops, certainly not supporting them. Stop it. Otherwise expect to be "slimed", you do it to yourself, so a little more won't hurt.

This next election will be about sedition and immigration.

By the way, when I was there, I heard that Dave Duggan is starting to talk about recalling Bruce Gibson. I did not hear about another candidate to replace Gibson. So far I see nothing that Gibson has done wrong about anything.

Churadogs said...

Crap sez:"Rudy Gulliani spoke about freedom and what is good about America despite our mistakes. The ten "code pink police" were of excellent demeanor. (500 republicans were there). Only "code pink" thinks our own administration caused 911 along with the leftists.

I guess you will suggest a book for me to read to support this stupidity. I certainly have heard enough about it from Rosie O'Donnell. (another clear thinker)."

Actually, yes. Try Googling in Greg Palast Vultures Guiliani Congo (or read Greg's latest book) to get a gander at the latest political money scheme involving poor countrie's debt and how it can be picked up for a song, the Prez refuses to blow his pals getting the note certified in the U.S. courts, the poor people in the bankrupt country have to pay, the politico's pals get rich, and the money is funneled into the political parties. Nifty scheme. One of Rudy's top supporters is just such a conduit. Makes for interesting reading. Apparently in the European news (but not here, it would be too embarassing) this latest "vulture" scheme was making some European countries raise their eyebrows at Bush & Co. Not Albania, of course. They think he's swell.

Crap sez:"I feel that you are seditious in time of war. You, along with Harry Reed, Nancy Pellosi, and your moveon.org fellow travelers are aiding and abetting terrorists. You sure as hell are hurting our troops, certainly not supporting them. Stop it. Otherwise expect to be "slimed", you do it to yourself, so a little more won't hurt."

Fascists, in a time of war, fall into lock step and question no one and allow nobody to question anything their leaders are doing. In a democracy (republic) free people must question their elected officials even more in a time of war. Not doing so results in incompetently run wars, insufficient troops, not enough kelvar vests, poorly armoured trucks, sloppy battle plans that get the troops killed (the list is endless) That's the kind of "criticism" also know as OVERSIGHT that a free people MUST engage in, ESPECIALLY in a time of war. That's when a reality check is most needed. That's also what fascists fear the most.

4crapkiller said...

Ann:

You reply:

"Fascists, in a time of war, fall into lock step and question no one and allow nobody to question anything their leaders are doing. In a democracy (republic) free people must question their elected officials even more in a time of war. Not doing so results in incompetently run wars, insufficient troops, not enough kelvar vests, poorly armoured trucks, sloppy battle plans that get the troops killed (the list is endless) That's the kind of "criticism" also know as OVERSIGHT that a free people MUST engage in, ESPECIALLY in a time of war. That's when a reality check is most needed. That's also what fascists fear the most."


I bring up sedition, you bring up fascists. What does fascism have to do with sedition?

Go to your dictionary. You do not know the meaning of the word "fascist" but like all leftists, use it to imply that people who disagree with the secular/progressive/socialistic line and love freedom and America are fascists. We do not stand for autocratic central government control by the military.

Traditionalists stand for freedom.
Your fellow travelers would take freedom away and substitute big government and socialism.

If you look at the dictionary definition of "sedition", you and your fellow travelers promote unrest against the government.

There is a big difference between constructive criticism to help a situation and "The war is lost" by Harry Reid, ESPECIALLY with troops in the field and much to be done.

This statement alone gives aid and comfort to the enemy terrorists and emboldens them.

This is not "oversight" which is to help and not hinder national objectives. And our national objective has ALWAYS been to promote freedom and democracy in the world. This is not "loyal opposition".

A double load of dog crap on your bed. Cheap shot! I have visions of Fidel in his military uniform in my mind. Hey, there is universal medical care in Cuba.

Anonymous said...

"A double load of dog crap on your bed."

A rallying cry for neo-conservatives all throughout the land! Their ignorance only surpassed by their lack of a good comeback!!! God that's priceless.

'Ol crap, the war-loving lemming who believes anyone who opposses the war is a terrorist, a socialist, a traitor, a chicken, a secular-progressive, and probably gay, hurls this invective and asks people to take her opinion seriously.

What a dolt.

4crapkiller said...

To anon 8:00 AM:

I am surprised that you did not call me a "fascist". I am also surprised that you never considered Quakers who oppose war for religious and honorable purposes. You just lumped them in with "anyone".

We were discussing sedition. Ann threw the "fascist" card. Somehow you completely missed the point. You have trouble reading, or comprehending, or both.

4crapkiller said...

To Ann:

Good reporting by Greg Palast, with additional pile on against "Vulture" Funds by Amy Goodman, millionare communist commentator, despising all things capitalist, except her own capital invested in "Link TV".

So we have countries defrauding lenders by borrowing money that they never considered paying back, or unable to pay back, or simply "hoped" to pay back. No mention of how the debt was secured, but probably by a public works project within the country. The borower expected that if they could not repay the loan, the lender would forgive the debt.

The lender sold the debt, payments not being made, feeling that something was better than nothing, and seeing the futility in trying to collect it, to a "Vulture" Fund which bought the debt at a severe discount, and now wishes to collect the debt. No instance of any debt being collected was offered by Palast. He was concerned with the scheme.

Well shame on the lender, who simply should have written the uncollectable debt off as a loss. Their stockholders were defrauded by poor lending practices. But something is better than nothing.

Well shame on the "Vulture" fund, who paid good money for a debt because they thought they could collect it and turn a profit for their investors who were also defrauded in that they "hoped" for a return on their investment. Surely they were not fully told of the highly speculative nature of their investment, or maybe it was just "mad" money, sort of like rolling dice. Greed prevailed.

And now the country who borrowed the money, should have never had the loan approved, and defaulted on the payments, will not get another loan. AND THEY KNOW IT.

There is absolutely no incentive to pay the "Vulture" fund.

However the country has it's public works project and it's leaders have their piece of the action.

Amy Goodman is "all a twitter" at the hair brained scheme because of the profit motive. However debts are bought and sold constantly. Individual, corporate, and government debt.

You walk into a car dealer to buy a car, select your car, and then go to finance your car. The finance officer looks up your credit rating and history, punches the info into a computer and then starts talking about monthly payments and interest rates. He tells you what the computer will accept, giving you some options. If your credit stinks, you can only lease. But your credit is fine, you sign a car note and drive away. The interest rate was 12%. It had nothing to do with reality, it was a number punched into a computer. The lender pays the dealership a fee for producing the loan. It is happy with it's going rate of 8% and the dealership makes out with part of the difference, say 3% on a $30,000 car. That comes to $900 real quick for the dealership, but is small potatoes compared to compounded interest over the life of the loan. The lender may sell the loan at a profit in the future to another lender, but continues to get paid for servicing the loan.

The car buyer never knows who actually holds the loan. If the car buyer's credit deteriates, the loan may be sold at a cash discount to even another lender willing to assume the risk.

This selling of loans at discount goes on constantly. However if payments are not made the car can be reposessed. Hard to do it with a dam or watertreatment plant in another country.

The socialist viewpoint is that the country should simply have been given the money. Actuality is there is not enough money to go around. And the money to be given by whom?