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Saturday, June 02, 2007

Los Osos Wastewater Draft Report Available

The public review draft of the "Viable Project Alternatives Fine ScreeningAnalysis" has been posted on the Los Osos Wastewater Project website atwww.slocounty.ca.gov/PW/LOWWP.htm.

Use the link below to open the report. http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/Assets/PW/LOWWP/document+library/Draft+Fine+Screening+Report.pdf

Printed copies of the report will also be available for review, after June4th, at the County Public Works Department office, the Los Osos CSD office,and the Los Osos Library.

Printed copies can also be purchased bycontacting the Public Works Department at (805) 781-5252. A fee ofapproximately $35 will be charged to cover the printing costs of thedocument.

Public comments on the draft report may be submitted to the County PublicWorks Department through June 30, 2007. Comments may be submitted inwriting to the Public Works Department office at the County GovernmentCenter, Room 207, San Luis Obispo, CA 93408 or emailed to LOWWP@co.slo.ca.us

151 comments:

Anonymous said...

A CORRUPT PUBLIC SERVANT NAMED PAAVO
SAILED TO SLO FROM HIS HOMELAND IN SLAAVO
HE BUILT A GOLD-PLATED SEWER
OUT OF CSD MANURE
SO DRUNKEN DREAMERS CAN SHOUT "THANK YOU, BRAVO!"


Vote "Hell, No, Never!" on Prop 218 and put $100 million back in the community's pocket.

Anonymous said...

Dumb shit obstructionist, please move away. You're the biggest ass on this blog, and that's saying something.

Anonymous said...

Above: Dumb shit obstructionist, please move away. You're the biggest ass on this blog, and that's saying something.

Thank you. Coming from you that's a real compliment. I'm encouraged by your grief.

Anonymous said...

Dumb shit obstructionist = Al

Anonymous said...

Yeah, we're 10,000 Al's -- your worst nightmare, foul-mouth Dreamer dog.

Anonymous said...

1,2,3,.....16,17.... long way to go to reach 10,000......

Al, Joey, Kieth, Gail, Julie, Lisa, Bev.... still got a long, long way to go....

It's a good thing most of you obstructionists live outside the PZ and are renters... No Votes there...!!!!! Isn't it fun to have to put up with those of us who have been insulted, sworn at and threatened. It's your turn now, so just remember the crap you dished out, pretty soon you'll have to crawl off to screw up some other community!

Anonymous said...

"put $100 million back in the community's pocket"

Shoot, I'd settle for the pay offs to the attorneys and the money that was spent so we defaulted on our bond payment, the money that we would have earned if we could have managed our fire contract, the SRF funds that we owe to the state....

Shark Inlet said...

Like the poem ... I would suggest the meter is off.

Maybe

A CORRUPT ENGINEER NAMED PAAVO
MOVED TO SLO FROM HIS HOME IN SLAAVO
BUILT A GOLD-PLATED SEWER
WITH CSD MANURE
SO DREAMERS CAN SHOUT "THANK YOU, BRAVO!"

Would conform too the standard limerick style.

Of course, I disagree entirely, but such efforts should be applauded.

Anonymous said...

Shark,

You said: "Like the poem ... I would suggest the meter is off.

You're right. Thank you, a gentleman and a scholar, to be sure. But Paavo is not an engineer, he's an administrator, bean counter and spin doctor. He obviously spun you. Or are you pals from way back?

Of course, I disagree with your disagreeing, but I heartily support your right to be wrong, and applaud you for building a bridge with me to Tomorrowland.

The Mad Poet

Shark Inlet said...

Don't know Paavo at all. Never even met him.

Perhaps you could replace "engineer" with "spin doctor" because the number of syllables would remain the same.

As to the question of whether the County has already decided what they're going to be doing ... the draft fine screening report makes it clear that they're still open to a variety of possibilities. I suspect that for TriW to be selected, the estimated cost would have to be lots cheaper than out of town. There is too much bad blood in town to go with TriW unless it is shown to be considerably cheaper.

On the other hand, if it isn't much more to have an out of town project, I am sure that those who would otherwise have supported TriW would vote yes on a 218. Many of the property owners will vote the "I don't freakin' care where the damn thing is ... I just want it done ASAP" party line.



All the best ...

Anonymous said...

ASAP Brother! ASAP!

Anonymous said...

Shark,

Yes, spin doctor works. You're an excellent (I don't want to say) collaborator -- I don't want you getting egged for "collaborating" with the likes of me.

You see, obstructionists like to refer to me as an obstructionist... I prefer to call myself an instructionist. In the same spirit, thanks for your instruction.

People want to vote for tbe 218. They want the Sewers Wars to end. Only a relatively few don't, for whatever reasons, who cares. Therefore, it is paramount that the County answer those common desires by giving the middle class on down an affordable project they can vote for.

Whether gravity or STEP, in town or out, by the County's numbers that project is not apparent in the Fine Screening and therefore will not be on the 218 ballot.

Anonymous said...

"by giving the middle class on down an affordable project they can vote for."

Much like I ask Republicans to define "victory" in Iraq, I ask what "affordable" means. I think most people who qualify for the 218 vote (homeowners in the PZ) are smart enough to know "affordable" doesn't mean the $100.00 a month the CSD promised to promote the recall. Or the $154.00 a month grafitti artist Michael Jones wrote on his sign on the corner of LOVR and South Bay he carried to promote the Senet/Cessina re-election. Hell, the $200.00 a month pricetag of Tri-W is not even realistic due to inflation and incredibly high construction cost now-a-days. So what is affordable? You will never find a consensus. Never.
And of course things ain't gettin' any cheaper.
So....as far as I'm concerned, for all those screaming to vote no on the 218, "affordability" just becomes another one of those buzzwords for "I don't want no stinkin' sewer in Los Osos."

Anonymous said...

I don't really think there has been too many people here who have said they'd vote against the 218. I think Al Barrow has shown up here throwing his fits, and he has even been answering his own stuff, so it gives the impression a lot of people are dead against the county, when in reality, it's just Barrow. I've been thinking that for some time now. Ever since Ann did her piece on Barrow's censure, he's shown up here doing his schtick. Check it out.

Anonymous said...

Even the CSD hangers-on must realize the property owners are a whole different enchilada to propose yet another invisible plan. Who knows though we are sure to be in for six more months of tantrums.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:31 PM, June 02, 2007 was acting like he was getting it until he said: "as far as I'm concerned, for all those screaming to vote no on the 218, "affordability" just becomes another one of those buzzwords for "I don't want no stinkin' sewer in Los Osos."

What gross ignorance! I repeat for the deaf of mind: There's hardly a handful in LO who don't want a sewer. Affordability is not a buzz word for "no sewer." Affordability is a buzz word for "can't afford a $200 million sewer." If you can afford $350 a month, good for you. If you want those who can't afford it to leave, go ahead, try and force us out. I'm fair game for your cleansing. But then you are fair game for me. You hunt me, I hunt you. This is the jungle you have created. What did you expect? Me to roll over for you?

Your fat wallet and your fat wife and fat kids mean nothing to me, as long as affordability means nothing to you.

All you care about is sticking any sewer, any place, anywhere -- so stick your big county sewer up your stupid, rich behind because it makes you feel good.

Anonymous said...

I am not Al Barrow. I will not vote for a 218 because it is a blank check, it is an open-ended money pit. I don't know what project I'd be voting for on the 218 and that makes a big difference. I can NOT vote yes.

The county has shown over and over what it's intentions are and I think they are picking a very bad project that will price me out of my home. A whopping bill like that every month is too much for me. If the county would have really wanted a descent project they would have searched one out (and many are available) but the STATE wants the big project, the county works for the state, the state has relationships with the MWHs, Carollos, and the big pipe companies. It's not about clean water, it's about real estate and relationships and payola. Some may not realize this, but it's clear to any thinking, aware person.

We've been steam-rolled and blackmailed (RWQCB) into a project they're determined to ram through.

Why should we have to pay $100 million more than we have to? Why should only the PZ homeowners pay for clean drinking water and clean bay? There have been a couple of senators that say the district should pay as a whole.

There are many crooks involved and many liars, all with too much power. Los Osos gets tricked over and over again. Let's see if it works this time.

Anonymous said...

Just curious conspiracy boy. What will you do when/if the 218 passes? Gonna fight it? Gonna obstruct some more? Gonna march in the streets? Gonna sue? Gonna leave town?

Anonymous said...

I'll leave town. I won't live with the construction mess either. I'll leave the nightmare of the big sewer pipes to you (oops, I almost forgot, you're in Atascadero and you won't have to deal with the construction, right?) I'll wish you luck with it. I'll love to leave this corrupt county full of crooks that are paid off by the developers. They don't try to hide it either. You can have your Jeff Edwards/Julie Tacker, Bob Crizer, MWH, Sam Blakeslee, Richard LeGros, and all the other nice people that lead you.

Lawsuits will come against the realtors for non-disclosure. Watch for that class action lawsuit in the near future, and another lawsuit against the county for permitting illegal septic tanks.

4crapkiller said...

I guess the conspiracy boy is a renter. Hard for a property owner living in their home with limited income to leave town. You will not be missed.

A lawsuit against the county to asess liability for the permitting of the septic tanks is in order!

Anonymous said...

FYI 4crapkiller,

I am not a renter, quite the opposite. I own several properties. I will vote no for all properties.

Anonymous said...

No, I'm not from Atascadero. I'm a homeowner right in the middle of the PZ. But thanks for your candor about moving if/when the 218 passes. It must be nice to have that flexibility. Do you rent, or are you willing to sell at deflated property value? For me, I'll stick out the inconvenience, and bask in the feeling that finally my home will increase it's property value, we'll be doing the right thing, and this whacked-out little community might regain some semblance of sanity after all these long, embarrassing years.

Anonymous said...

To 9:50,

I rent out properties, and I'll move before the construction starts. Anyone who lived through the construction on 17th & 18th streets know. Look who moved out of the construction zone: Julie Tacker, Richard LeGros, there's more but I won't name them.

I too hope the property values will go up after a system is in, but I doubt it will climb much higher than it was at it's peak a couple of years ago. I also doubt if this whacked-out community will ever change. I know there are doctors and entertainment people moving here in the better view homes (all retired) but there will be quite a bit of inventory when the sewer bills arrive in the mail and will take many years for this market to level out...many years.

Sanity in Los Osos? Never. This is one weird place...must be something in the water!

Anonymous said...

"Sanity in Los Osos? Never. This is one weird place...must be something in the water!"

Something we both can undeniably, without a doubt agree on!!!! Have a great Sunday.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

I haven't seen too much written here on the Fine Screening. It shows that the step will be more expensive, or a "wash" at best. That's very hard to believe. The county doesn't have Orenco's figures in the report and it's a shame they didn't (want to) meet with Orenco until after the fine screening. Why is the county only looking towards the state SRF funding? Why don't they want to save the homeowners of L.O. $100 million?

There is a problem I have with the Tri-W/gravity system that the county doesn't want to acknowledge and that is this: Many experts including Dr. T and the others in the peer review thought it best be out of town. Dr. Alexander, Dr. Ruehr, and Dr.T and other top experts all have questioned putting big pipes in our sand with earthquakes and other problems associated with gravity in Los Osos in particular. Where are the county "experts" saying that it's fine to put in gravity?

Anonymous said...

Cargo Cult warning. We believe Orenco can deliever Cargo.... they operate in a different universe ...Let Dr. R examine the effects of spraying on fields, he's a soils expert, not a gravity expert.

Anonymous said...

Dr.R's reputation has also been tainted by association with the mentally soiled Mr.Barrow.

Anonymous said...

To 4:38,

I wish you could really try to address my questions/concerns. Where are your experts? I've mentioned at least six that question the problems of a gravity system here.

Orenco can deliver, that's their business. They put in systems, how can you dismiss that? There are others who could too. Only half of California uses the SRF monies. The EPA perfers clusters and on site systems.

Please show me your experts that say gravity is okay in this place. Give me at least one!

P.S. Yes, Dr. Ruehr is a soil expert and knows exactly what can happen in our soils here (sand) with the deep trenching. Who would know better?

Anonymous said...

To 5:03,

Do you know how stupid you actually sound?

Mr. Barrow may have a temper, but he's not stupid and has nothing to do with Dr. Ruehr's reputation. There is nothing wrong with Dr. Ruehr's reputation. He's very well respected.

Mr. Barrow has brought many top professionals to Los Osos, what's wrong with that? What do you have against professionals?

Why don't you admit (again) that you don't care what system or how much it costs or what damage will be done or who pays for any of the damage and/or mistakes? The county is off the hook for any accidents.

Do you live in the PZ?

Anonymous said...

here is a list of experts who say gravity is ok:

Wallace
MWH
Carollo
Metcalf & Eddy
Professional engineers for the State
Fouche, a PE, said it was ok.

You lose!!

BTW, Orenco has never said gravity is not OK here

Ruehr knows soil science, but he is not a PE, ok? soil science has nothing to do with the engineering of putting pipes in soil but you obviously are incapable to determine when someone is qualified to vouch for something

facts are facts and belief is belief - Cargo please!

The EPA prefers we do something about our pollution,

Cargo Cult, need a drop!!

Anonymous said...

Show us Orneco's contract to Los Osos that says they will design, finance and guarantee the operation for 40 years. Let them put their money on the table to show they are serious. Dr.R will have a difficult time getting anyone to listen to him after his consulting with you! He is simply another charlatan in your sewer world! You really are crazy!

Anonymous said...

Anyone know how the gravity systems and the pipes have held up in SF and LA?

Anonymous said...

...or Carlsbad recently? Not too well...when the big pipes break, they may not (and aren't) discovered for a very long time, meanwhile a whole lot of pollution occurs.

Anonymous said...

Cargo Cult! Pray for Cargo from Orenco!! Dance around the bay and pray for Cargo!! We believe, lordy we believe. We believe Carollo would intentially damage their reputation and inflate STEP costs because they are evil people , unlike the compassionate Dr. Ruehr who knows more about pipes than all the engineering firms in the Western hemisphere combined. Believe, yes believe in the Cargo. It will drop, it has to. Pray for the Cargo! Deliver us not into sewers, but rescue us from the conspiracy of Pandora, the Governer, Blakeslee, Paavo, and the usual cast of characters. We must believe. We have to believe!!! The sewer sect of Los Osos prays for Cargo!! When will it come? We are good, they are bad, we are righteous, the big pipes are evil. Chant for the Cargo!!

Anonymous said...

To 5:18:

Wallace, MWH, and Carollo...they only do gravity!!! That's how they make a living. John Fouche and Rob Miller have support for step.

What professional experts for the state?

ALL THESE COMPANIES YOU MENTION ARE FOR-PROFIT COMPANIES IN THE BUSINESS OF BUILDING BIG SYSTEMS. THAT DOESN'T MAKE THEM EXPERTS EXCEPT IN BUILDING ONLY ONE KIND OF CENTRALIZED SEWER SYSTEM FOR CITIES OF 200,000 TO 2 MILLION PEOPLE.

YOU CAN'T GIVE ME THE NAME OF ONE INDEPENDENT EXPERT WHO IS NOT PAID BY CAL TRANS, THE COUNTY OR THE STATE WHO CAN SPEAK ON BEHALF OF GRAVITY IN LOS OSOS.

YOU LOSE!

Anonymous said...

Magic Sand, Sealed Coffins in our front yards and tiny flexible Orenco Pipes connecting Neighborhood Pods of specialized bacteria. Maybe those nasty stiff water pipes to homes and fire hydrants should be replaced with the tiny flexible Orenco Pipes. If we work at this design a few more years, maybe we'll find a better compost toilet/bath tub and drinking fountain. Yup, let's all dance around the Barrow Honey Hut and sing Kumbaya.

Anonymous said...

Orenco, a medium size for profit company, please provide the Orenco cost estimates, where are they?? Are they held in the sacred scripts within a bowel movement?? Blessed with chantings of Dr. R?? when will the Cargo drop them from the sky?? wait you say, after the election the Cargo will drop?? Good plan, don't reveal them to soon to the non-believers, lest the non-believers of the Cargo speak in evil tongues!!! vote No on 218 because the Cargo will drop after the election. Then the grand plan will finally be revealed in all it's mastery, the master plan of the CalTrans combine, the grand design. Cargo, we salute you!!!! We await you!! But not to soon. First, vote NO on 218, and await the plan for it's unveiling!!

Anonymous said...

What? Orenco isn't a non-profit corporation? After all we've been told, they must be non-profit to want save Los Osos from the money-grubbers who get paid by the diameter-inch of pipe they rip into our scared sand! Cargo ahoy, please save us!

Anonymous said...

Don't you know, Orenco gives away all it's profit to subsidize Los Osos. They exist to fulfill the needs of Los Osos. They await to load the Cargo. The cost estimates are in a bottle which will wash ashore. But only after the election. The plan cannot be seen before a No vote. The Cargo Gods would be insulted to reveal Orenco cost estimates ahead of time. Await the Cargo!! Cargo yes, 218 No, there is a plan, really really there is, but the heretics cannot be trusted to see it, for they are non-believers. Believe, you must believe that there is a plan!!! The scrolls are safely tucked away with the rest of the documents in a safe place, away from the evil Big Pipe followers. Cargo we shiver in anticipation!! We will be delivered from our misery by Cargo!! Vote No on 218, Yes on Cargo, Cargo we kneel down and bow before you!!! Magic Sand, Magic Ponds, Magic regulations, Magic law, Magic costs, Magic Plans, voodoo for poopoo, yes Cargo is great!!!!

Anonymous said...

Isn't Reuhr the lowlife who wrote the editorial in the Bay News a few weeks ago telling all to vote against the 218? At least 4 or 5 months before the vote, without even a fine screening released at that time?

What a great neighbor!!! What a guy!!!

Anonymous said...

Orenco gives away all it's profit to subsidize Los Osos. They exist to fulfill the needs of Los Osos!

Now I understand how the CSD has been able to continue without a stream of income.

Are all the CSD lawyers members of the Cargo inner circle?

Anonymous said...

I really wasn't much interested in Al's Orenco until I read the arguments posted against them here on this site. The nay sayers sound like a bunch of teenage girls vying for the supreme bitch award.

I hope we can cut out the crap and make decisions based on the facts. Is Orenco a solid company with a good track record? How do previous customers rate their product and service? What is their bid, and what does it include? I would like answers from unbiased, neutral sources.

Anonymous said...

THEY DON"T HAVE A BID!!! DON'T YOU GET IT. THERE IS NO BID. JUST A BUNCH OF LOS OSOS SEWER WANNA-BEs THAT PARROT NUMBERS OUT OF THIN AIR WHO KNOW NOTHING BUT THE NAME OF A COMPANY. OF COURSE ORENCO IS REPUTABLE, NOW UNTIL ORENCO REFUTEs THE COSTS IN THE FINE SCREENING REPORT THE PARROTS SHOULD STOP CONFUSING EVERYONE. BUT AS WE KNOW, PARROTS CAN ONLY REPEAT WHAT THEY HEAR AND HAVE NO REAL KNOWLEDGE, BUT PARROTS DON'T LISTEN THEY JUST REPEAT THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER

Anonymous said...

To 5:19,

I'm crazy? I read Dr. Ruehr's interview in The Rock. I've never met or consulted with him.

Are you nuts? I know the answer to that!...YES!

Anonymous said...

Whoah. The people on this sight are losing it. I haven't looked in awhile and now I'm sorry I did. I will follow the process and the county, stay informed, and vote accordingly. The discussion on this sight is worthless. Too much testosterone for me. I am a property owner, BTW. Not a renter wanna be.

Anonymous said...

to 5:28,

Yes, you are nuts. Did anyone say that Dr. Ruehr was a gravity expert? No, he knows the history here, he knows soil science. He knows what will or won't work in Los Osos.

There is a big conspiracy here and has been since 83-13. PZ zone. Over-stating pollution. All that good stuff.

It's about real estate. You want the poor out. It's about development. It's about big money to spread around (paid exclusively by PZ homeowners.) Do you get your cut? I bet you do!

Anonymous said...

There is a tiny conspiracy, created and it is kept alive, by a few extremists.

The majority of the property owners are tired of distortions of the vocal few.

The CSD is now bankrupt and soon will be unable to make the payment to the Bank of New York for the "loan" used to pay last September's assessment payment. June 18 should be a very interesting day with the Bankruptcy Judge.

The CSD's world of spin is getting smaller and more dangerous every day. We will hear the vocal few voice the conspiracy war cry and blame all but themselves for the final collapse of the experiment in local government.

Anonymous said...

To 6:11,

Who said Orenco was for profit?

I didn't say that they were any of the experts who questioned putting gravity in Los Osos.

I SAID DR. T, DR. ALEXANDER, AND DR. RUEHR? Can you read?

I asked you for one expert. You can't give a name so you distract with crazy shit.

You lose!

Anonymous said...

Let us examine Dr. Ruehr's statements in the Rock in detail and ascertain his credibility. Since I have a copy of the Rock, let's go:

Dr Ruehr states, according to the Rock:

Now examine what Dr. Ruehr states in the article as fact in response to a question about re-charge from the Rock:


"Q. Why is the County still looking at Broderson as a recharge site, even as a secondary recharge site? Where is the “fatal flaw” in this? Since County engineering approved the excessive water application rates, how can we trust the County to look after our best interests in other areas requiring objective professional expertise?

according to Dr. Ruehr

"A. The allowed loading rates based upon the Tri-W site with the Broderson recharge location is over 1000 times more than can possibly be absorbed in this location. The County seems to have the head-in-the-sand mentality. They believe because the Coastal Commission and the RWQCB approved this site previously, it must be OK to use it. This is probably the greatest fatal flaw in the entire sewer design. "

All you Dr. Ruehr fans, read the above response from the Rock interview carefully and think about what he is saying, he said Broderson re-charge loading rates are OVER 1000 TIMES more than can be handled. Not 100 times, not 10 times, He said 1000 TIMES.

Cleath has stated that 400,000 gpd can be handled at Broderson. THIS MEANS Dr. Ruehr believes it can only handle 400 gpd. For the arithmetically challenged, 400 x 1000 = 400,000. Broderson has 8 acres of leach fields.

Do you realize that most homes in the PZ discharge about 80 gpd minimum. So, ACCORDING TO THE GREAT DR. RUEHR, Broderson could only discharge for 5 homes (5 x 80 = 400). This is what he stated!!! HOW ASININE OF AN EVALUATION IS THAT BY DR. RUEHR. 5 homes in 8 acres is too much according to the great Dr.???

Ron Crawford, Ann Calhoun, you esteemed 'investigative journalists' why don't you ask Dr. Ruehr to submit his detailed evaluation where he came up with the contention that Broderson could not handle ONE THOUSAND times the current re-charge rates that Cleath says it can handle.


So I ask you, does Dr. Ruehr, he have any credibility professesionally on this issue whatsoever until he submits professional work to support his contention????

All you Dr. Ruehr lovers, ask him for his analysis, or cocktail napkin, or whatever he made the analysis on. Go ahead, I dare you.

The facts have just been presented to you with COLD HARD DATA. Let him support his statment or refute it. You demand answers all the time, go demand an answer from Dr. Ruehr.

Dr. Ruehr, where is your analysis to support your PUBLIC statement about Broderson. Where the hell is it?????

Ann, if someone says a little 'myth', can they be trusted for other statements??????

Aren't you interested to have Dr. Ruehr to post his detailed analysis that contradicts the body of work of Cleath????

4crapkiller said...

The county will decide. If the asessment is not accepted (218) vote, there will be no chance for Orenco. It would be a very foolish board of supervisors not to listen to Orenco. It would be terrible negligence.

Anonymous said...

to 6:22, 6:11,

Dr. Ruehr is a very bright guy and he knows too that the 218 has been rigged. Otherwise, there would be one project with one price tag. That's how the 218 works, but the county and it's many attorneys figured out a way to get around the law and list three projects and not to have the district pay as a whole as it's supposed to be. I don't know how Rob Miller can even swing the benefit on all three. But the process is rigged and any intelligent person can see that.
The guilt is on the many faces of the county employees. They know it's all a big lie, but they work for who pays their check, and that's to be expected.

You must have a stake in the over-priced system that we don't need for a community of 4,500 homes (much less than that actually with Bayridge Estates and Sunset Terrace since they already have community sewers and no pipes to install.)

The fix is in and has been since the recall election. Blakeslee did not work so hard to get the project into the county's hands to let us have a sustainable system. He did it for the recalled board. He did it for the RWQCB and of course, Paavo who worked with the Tri-W project from the very beginning with Pandora.

Anonymous said...

To 8:16 PM

You seem pretty upset. Try calming down some.

Dana Ripley said Broderson can't handle all the liquid. Remember what happened to that little town south of Santa Barbara where the people were buried alive? ... from rain storms... Do you really think that couldn't happen here? Do you really want to take that chance? Many people feel dumping so much liquid could/would be a diaster. Look up at the mountains and see how they've caved from the weather. It's a bad idea to use Broderson. You don't have a brain in that little head of yours. Go have another drink!

Anonymous said...

To 8:16,

Or you can visit www.rockofthecoast.com and see more of Dr. Ruehr's interview...there's more there (on-line) so you can get youself more upset. We see how the truth really upsets you (you can stop posting crap.)

Are you ready to slam Dr. T now?

I'm waiting...

Anonymous said...

Why do all you naysayers not know THAT THE COUNTY WILL DECIDE?

Anonymous said...

If not Broderson as a recharge site, what would it take to provide a curtain of fresh water between the Aquifiers and the estuary? Or is the answer to halt all pumping from the aquifiers and allow natural fresh water flows to push back the salt intrusion?

Anonymous said...

We homeowners are upset at the C-R-A-P that you put out as 'fact'. What does Dana Ripley know that Cleath doesn't?? Have him publish it. He won't because he has no basis to refute it. And it is dispicable you would even invoke his name, that is how sick your are to misuse his name to create a misconception.

I guess your conspiracy includes Cleath as well.

You base your decisions on 'feeling' or 'belief'. Saying the same thing over and over doesn't make it true. You never ever provide a shred of data in support of your beliefs, you just recant your beliefs to brainwash people that don't know any better, trying to create impressions of 'conspiracy' and 'disaster', preying on the fearful.

Anonymous said...

Los Osos:

What the hell does it matter, anyway?

YOU do not get to select! The selection process is within the purview of the County of San Luis Obispo! So Dr. Ruehr, the ever omnipotent Al, and all the self-appointed potentates can just take all their lofty and "learned" (not) opinions, and fold them FIVE ways, and GUESS what they should do with them???????????????

Anonymous said...

The discussion goes on and on.

The opinions range from one end of the spectrum to the other.

In the final analysis, 50 years from now, we will never know the difference.

Does that make any sense to all of you?

Anonymous said...

Post the truth here. Ask your Dr. Ruehr to back up his claims in writing with DATA. You can't answer one simple question. Where's the beef??? He either has the back-up or he doesn't. I challenged him to post it. We'll see.

You are so sad that you poison people. They want to believe that nothing needs to be done so you prey on them, create impressions with unsubstantiated C-R-A-P. Your sad act is almost over, you have no facts, no data, nothing to support anything you say, except you say it over and over and over to confuse people.

Your conspiracy includes:

Wallace
Cleath
Carollo
County
Paavo
Blakeslee
............

I doubt if Orenco or Dana would even give you the time of day, lest they damage their reputation by association with you when you someday add them to your list of co-conspirators.

Anonymous said...

Orenco boy is really getting a lot of face time, isn't he. I wonder who he can be.....

You know, I think I've heard Orenco before. It's a timing thing. Orenco was heard before in the form of better, cheaper, faster. Orenco was heard before in $100.00 a month. We have a plan. We're ready to go. We won't get fined. We won't get CDO's. We won't lose the SRF loan.

Yep, Los Osos has heard the Orenco thing for 30 years now.

I wonder who Orenco boy is.......

Anonymous said...

To 10:35AM, June 2:

I do not give a flying fuck what you think you can vote for.

You are probably a Section 8 renter, and your only interest is in keeping the sewer, and the costs, which will trickle down to you, as far away from your sorry ass as you can.

Be advised: The 218 is GOING to pass, because those who OWN the property within Los Osos WILL vote FOR IT. It matters not, what sort of diatribe you have concocted, along with your fellow misanthropes; What matters, is that ONLY property owners can VOTE!!!!!

So gather up your meager belongings, and be prepared to get the hell down the road.

The property owners do NOT want the likes of Al and his motley crew of renters, squatters, etc., to direct things that will affect those of us who have invested in property in Los Osos.

I, personally, have a solid, median 6 figure investment in several properties in Los Osos and I am here to tell you that I WILL NOT have Al, Kieth, Julie, Lisa, Chuck, Steve, Gail, or any self appointed person, direct what will happen to the property that I own.

This is the time for Al, and all the other assholes to shut the hell up, and listen to those of us who have actually invested in this community, with real dollars, not just a bunch of bullshit opinions.

I would love to hear the real opinion of property owners within this community on this subject.

Anonymous said...

I am a property owner and I say right on!!! The problem is, as you know, that none of the knaves you mentioned will do anything close to shutting up. Lie lie and lie again to make sure they do not have to pay for a sewer. It's only just begun my friend. These scum are getting ready to take to the streets in a way that will make the recall circus seem like, well, a normal community. This is gonna get ugly. Real ugly.

Anonymous said...

To 9:07 PM,

I've been pointing my finger at you and the people with similar viewpoints as you for a long time and I've said--and will say it again--that you, you violent, foul-mouthed Dreamers, you vile fascists are solely responsible for why we are in this very position today. Your cowardly scowls of hatred have really warped a democracy that so many people have spent decades fighting for.

It doesn't matter if someone is a Section 8 renter or not. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and I mean everyone and yes folks, that includes Al Barrow. As much as we are repelled by some people's behavior like a certain person who wishes to remain anonymous (probably because they can't possibly back up their words under their real name), everyone's voice needs to be heard even if they are criminals, tyrants or Republicans.

You don't speak for property owners and most likely, you never will. Like many others who sympathize with your cause, you will never truly understand what representation means. You don't represent the community by having a median 6 figure investment in several properties. You don't represent the community by posting bigoted messages on a blog.

You just listen.

Anonymous said...

Scum that does not own property should not have a say in the 218 vote!! Circus, whatever. The only people who can vote is PROPERTY OWNERS. They can get as ugly as they want. When the 218 comes down, EVERYBODY needs to VOTE. ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY. Some staff of LOCSD KNOW how to make this happen.

These miscreant renters have no business in making decisions for those who have invested their life savings in property in Los Osos.

Renters can move, on a 30 day basis. Property owners are left holding the bag, liable for anything and everything that was left behind by those itinerent squatters.

I say, squatters, shut up! PROPERTY OWNERS, SPEAK UP!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Psycho Guy said: "I do not give a flying fuck what you think you can vote for."

Another good reason to vote against the 218. If violent animals like 9:07 PM, June 03, 2007 are voting for it, it's got be bad.

Taxpissers Watch maniacs are the best inspiration for voting no. I for one will enjoy watching them choke slowly on the failed 218.

With TW promoting the 218 with vile, bile and violence, it's destined to fail. It's a matter of good vs. evil, and the evils of TW will bring them down...yet again.

With fiends like TW, Paavo doesn't have to look far for enemies. He's sleeping with them.

Anonymous said...

Damned straight, 9:32PM!!!

To 9:26PM, I say:

Al, you do not have one single dime invested in this community. You are a die-hard miscreant, who has never accumulated anything, despite your so-called college degree, or your so-called veteran benefits. I understand that this is because of your "road-rage" behavior to every living being that crosses your path. Right??

So, that being said, you need to know that those of us who have actually invested green dollars in this community, have a BIG say, when it comes to a 218 VOTE.

You can sit in the background, and mutter obscenities or bible verse or whatever the hell pleases you. BUT THE FACT IS: YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE SAY, IN A 218 VOTE.

Have your opinion. And, welcome to it.

This WILL NOT affect those property owners, who will decide the final VOTE!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

There they go again, 9:32 & 9:39. They attempt to place the violence label on someone else to further some anti-property agenda. There is nothing wrong with property rights. Renters don't have the same impact from this on their livelihoods in this town. More than a few have gained 'stardom' with their 'cause celeb'. It has nothing to do with fascism but has to do with protecting your investment (and your community's future) while the 'celebrities' can and will say anything with impunity under a ruse of some self-proclaimed compassion.

Anonymous said...

I am a property owner and will vote no unless the 218 has a specific project & price.

When the homeowners (especially Bayridge Estates & Sunset) see how much they have to pay they'll vote "NO" especially when it's made aware that it can be done for $100 million less and can be done by the 2011 deadline.

I have been reading this blog for a couple of weeks, but after reading it tonight, I have to speak out against the 218 and will tell my neighbors to think twice about voting for an unknown project and price that the Board of Sups will have to final say on.

SmartVoter

Anonymous said...

good SmartVoter,

I guess that means you want the Tri-W project since that is the only project you can get with a known price.

Anonymous said...

COMING UP NEXT:

"DREAMERS GONE NUTS"

Anonymous said...

How about "SCHICKER GONE WILD!"

Anonymous said...

To: 10:37

At least if the 218 had the Tri-W project with it's price that would be an honest 218. I personally don't like the location or technology but it would be on one project and one price, the way the 218 should be held.

SmartVoter

Anonymous said...

Whoever posted at 9:26,

What is it with you people? Do you seriously feel that labeling someone as Al automatically make your argument more logical? Please. It's like every time a conservative calls someone "French," it's just lame. It's a shame that you wasted twenty minutes of your time posting to someone who didn't even post that. With that twenty minutes, you could've done other things like knitting, riding around in your turbo-powered wheelchair with a toy poodle, getting recalled or selling reverse mortgages.

Anonymous said...

WOW! The People of Lost Osos have spoken....and you are all nuts!!!!

If the above postings from the weekend are typical of the insane discussion within your mudflat town, there is no doubt why the State of California took your sewer project away and gave the County of San Luis Obispo orders to build it!

The people outside your town can not believe how insane your sewer war as gone. We don't want any of our property taxes to bail Los Osos out of the problem you alone have created. We are having discussions with our Supervisors to keep out of your local fighting.

Churadogs said...

Anonymous at 6:09, 6/04 sez:"WOW! The People of Lost Osos have spoken....and you are all nuts!!!!

If the above postings from the weekend are typical of the insane discussion within your mudflat town, there is no doubt why the State of California took your sewer project away and gave the County of San Luis Obispo orders to build it!

The people outside your town can not believe how insane your sewer war as gone. We don't want any of our property taxes to bail Los Osos out of the problem you alone have created. We are having discussions with our Supervisors to keep out of your local fighting.

6:09 AM, June 04, 2007"

Uh, Anonymous, I trust you are aware that only a handful of the same people post comments on this site. The majority of people I talk with are not "insane" as you wish to believe. Clearly, many of the folks posting here hold very strong opinions and there's certainly a lot of bad blood and grudges in play here. Also clearly, this issue is generating a lot of fear and fear generates anger and anger brings up all sorts of "sewerish" emotions that normally stay hidden because they're so ugly they're embarassing when spoken un-anynomously. Really ugly stuff. So, we have a small bunch of people dealing with their own very ugly issues, then we have a whole community sitting mute at this point. If history is any guide, 40% of the assessment ballots may never even be returned (happened in the original assessment vote) or 40% won't even bother to show up to vote in the advisory vote (happened for the recall) In short, a whole lot of Los Osos is simply Out To Lunch. That leaves a small vocal minority on either end of the sewer problem and a large lump in the middle. The large lump in the middle will vote and what they decide will determine what happens here eventually.

What's interesting is that a sufficient number of "lumps" decided with the Measure B and Recall election that they wanted two things: A sewer plant out of the center of their town and a chance to vote on what and where and how much. It appears that the voting lump will probably end up with two out of the three things they wanted. "Affordability" disappeared centuries ago, and in it's place is only. . . "relative affordability."

Ironically, if the Process the County is going through now had been in place and been done by the original CSD, we wouldn't be here with frightened, angry people spewing ugly things on a blog site. (To be fair, Paavo noted -- and he was present at the creation of the CSD -- he felt the CSD simply didn't have the resources to do what the county's doing now) Which means that something went very wrong from day one and I maintain that if that "lump" in the middle had gotten engaged and involved from the start, we wouldn't be in this mess. I recall hearing from so many people during the CDO process who said, "I stayed out of the issue," or "I didn't want to get involved," & etc. What this community is going through now is the price we're paying for NOT getting and staying involved in a Process that needed eyes on the table from all parties, including (and perhaps especially) the regulators who had a great responsibility to ensure that the information they were given was, in fact, correct and truthful. (Something Ron Crawford's been on about for years.)

The draft screening report is out, there'll be a presentation by Mr. Harris of Cleath & Assoc at the CSD Meeting on Tursday, @ 6:30 pm, on Chapter 2 (water dispersal & etc) I urge everyone to attend,get the information, ask questions NOW.

Mike Green said...

Anon said:
"The people outside your town can not believe how insane your sewer war as gone. We don't want any of our property taxes to bail Los Osos out of the problem you alone have created. We are having discussions with our Supervisors to keep out of your local fighting."

Good! Talk to your supervisor on ways to send Los Osos to the moon because thats the only way this mess is going to have no effect on the rest of the county.
Just where do you think the 150-200 million is going to come from? the Los Osos Mint?
Do you have any idea what is going to happen when 4500 households suddenly have 300/mo of discretionary spending taken away for infrastructure? where do you think that money goes now? into mattresses?
Who fixes your car, takes care of you in the hospital, works in your supermarket, fixes your plumbing? likely someone like that lives in Los Osos. and the price of their living is going to go up dramatically. So is the cost of their services.
You who sit back and think that the governmental disaster that is Los Osos wont have an effect on your little part of this county, that all you have to do is look away and the problem disappears, are in for a little wake up call.
Go ask your supervisor! Where are all the folks that can't afford the sewer are going to move to?
Can you spell higher rents?
Nobody gets away from the economy, we are all interconnected.

Anonymous said...

"The people outside your town can not believe how insane your sewer war as gone. We don't want any of our property taxes to bail Los Osos out of the problem you alone have created. We are having discussions with our Supervisors to keep out of your local fighting."

But you have no problem sucking up the taxes that Los Osos forks over every day in the County. Tell you what, fork over 6% of every sale made to someone in Los Osos and send the check over here, we can use it. We're just as tired of subsidizing business in the County as you are about hearing our sewer problem.

Anonymous said...

The people outside of Los Osos should have been cheering this mess on!
They have benefitted by the low cost of living afforded there.
Everything is going to go up because of the cost of the Los Osos sewer.
Housing prices will rise again due to the built in costs on Los Osos property. Why do you think there IS a median home price? (now aprx 600K for SLOcounty)

Anonymous said...

Yes, $300 per month is a heck of a lot to pay for a sewer. But it's not something, in my opinion, that will kill our community.

How many people out here, in the past 8-10 years, have purchased an extra family car for a tenager who got their licence and added a hefty car payment to their budget? How many people refinanced or upgraded their housing where the payment went up $300? How many people started to care for an elderly relative and had to deal with added family expense because of it? How many had one or more of their kids head off to college saw that expense added to their budgets?

Financial stuff happens, and unlike many of the types of things that I mentioned above, we have known that this is coming for a long time, and have had a lot of years to make our families' plans to deal with it.

This will never get any cheaper and the expense needs to be fixed now so that, over time, we can catch up to it. Until a project is built, we never will.

Anonymous said...

The problem, here, is that the Dreamers and neo-Dreamers (Taxpayers Watch) start their sentences as "I" while those who want an affordable, more efficient wastewater treatment facility use the word "we."

"I don't care how much the sewer will cost nor do I care about the location. I can afford it." I heard those words from time to time and never once did they consider their neighbors and other community members who can't afford that $300/month.

It's a shame that so many people are selfish.

Shark Inlet said...

Three comments ...

First, it is not true that Los Osos alone has created the sewer problem. It needs to be stated very clearly that the County made the choice to continue approving the building of homes even though they knew that the septic systems they were approving would damage the aquifer. The County is culpable. Yes, they did try to come up with a solution (or two or three), but essentially had the County not approved far too many septics per acre, Los Osos would not have a problem at all.

Second, the vote on the recall and measure B is confusing and to say that the majority wanted a new location is in error. Many individuals were voting on hope ... they were hoping that if the recall candidates weren't fibbing the cost could be cut in half. If the recall candidates said "we can get a sustainable plant out of town but it'll cost even more than TriW ... oh yeah ... we're going to have to have another 218 vote to borrow another $20M to design a whole new collection system and plant" (in other words, had they actually had a well-thought-out plan) they would have lost.

Third, as others have pointed out, Los Osos property taxes and building permit funds have gone to the County for some time now and we seem quite underserved when compared to other county areas. Perhaps that trend should be reversed. Maybe when properties in Los Osos are sold, the change in property taxes should be split evenly between paying down the sewer debt and between the County general fund (since prop 13, a change in ownership has a huge impact on the property tax revenue). With 7% of the homes Los Osos selling in any given year (and assuming a $200k difference in assessed value) this could net $500k every year toward the project.

No on else in the County would be hurt ... but Los Osos would finally be receiving back some of what we've put into the County coffers.

4crapkiller said...

It is clear that if the asessment vote had a choice of three or four sites or systems and the choice would be selected by the property owners as part of that vote, there would be no clear choice. The property owners in the Los Osos PZ lack expertise in proper selection. There has been so much BS submitted, and so much nit picking, that it would be very difficult for any property owner to look on the selection clearly.

The county plan is a good one. Let the experts decide and influence the BOS as to the proper course of action. You can be sure that cost and timing will be very important.

Those property owners who are "anti sewer" and vote "no" on the asessment will be sticking their head into the guillotine and pulling the blade release. Please be aware that this vote is by APN, the property owners are known, and their vote is known. This should be public information. This is not a blind confidential ballot. To vote "No" is an acceptance of CDOs and the problems thereof, which will surely cost more than any sewer (the water board is on record for this).

Hopefully, those who vote "No", and the asessment fails, will be the first to start paying CDOs. Those who vote "yes" can use their known vote as a defense against CDOs.

In this case, the identity of those property owners who wish to obstrut the law will be very clear.

Be careful of consequences.

Anonymous said...

"The problem, here, is that the Dreamers and neo-Dreamers (Taxpayers Watch) start their sentences as "I" while those who want an affordable, more efficient wastewater treatment facility use the word "we."

To which I reply as follows: I want an efficient WWTF. I want it to be affordable. I don't care about location I care about cost and having no end in sight and not sticking to any decision and not addressing our infrastructure needs. I don't pretend to speak for everybody, like so many who do by using 'we' to coronate themselves. The sooner you build it, the more it will be affordable for me and my neighbors. Just because you say you 'care' for your neighbors doesn't translate that you have actually done one single productive thing to protect them. The 'neo-Dreamers' or whatever label you feel compelled to attach on someone to make you feel righteous is misplaced and those you refer to by and large are not the ones who have been fueling forever-increasing costs to this project. To trash homeowners because they are prepared to pay to fix a problem is demagoguery and says more about how righteous you feel than anything else. Get over yourself.

4crapkiller said...

Hey Ann: How do you like the above for a little fear?

Anonymous said...

To anon at 11:48 AM,

Why are you in Taxpayers Watch then, Lynette?

Ron said...

An Anon (8:16 PM, June 03) wrote:

"All you Dr. Ruehr lovers, ask him for his analysis, or cocktail napkin, or whatever he made the analysis on. Go ahead, I dare you."

That's good, funny smack... I don't necessarily agree with it because I tend to think that Dr. R. knows his way around this vast story, but the "cocktail napkin, or whatever" crack made me laugh, unlike the rest of the crap in this comments section.

But to your point, Anon, that whole "1,000 times" discharge thing seems kind of moot to me (good post, though). I can't answer for Dr. Ruher, but I know what I base ONE of my MANY Tri-W "fatal flaw(s)" on, and it's in the Fine Screening Report (which by the way, I agree with another commentor here... where's the discussion on that document? That's what I, and I'm sure many other folks, would like to see. Not that back-and-forth, high school... you know... that stuff.)

The report reads:

"The Tri-W project included leachfields at the Broderson site and additional sites on the east side of town as the only reuse/disposal alternative. The sum of the capacity for disposal by the sites in the Tri-W project did not meet the required capacity for buildout flow. The shortfall in capacity was deferred to a future project to solve." [bolding mine]

Here's my letter to Paavo this morning:

Hello Paavo,

Quick question please...

In the Fine Screening Report, it reads:

"The Tri-W project included leachfields at the Broderson site and additional sites on the east side of town as the only reuse/disposal alternative. The sum of the capacity for disposal by the sites in the Tri-W project did not meet the required capacity for buildout flow. The shortfall in capacity was deferred to a future project to solve."

Here's my question:

If it was discovered that one of the "Viable Project Alternatives" scrutinized in the Fine Screening Report for the Los Osos wastewater project required a second, "future project" to "meet the required capacity for buildout flow," would that be considered a "fatal flaw" for that alternative, or will the TAC allow another project (other than Tri-W) through the fine screening process that will also require a "future project" to meet the planning needs of Los Osos?

---

*pg-13 said...

Shark is so totally correct.

Shark Inlet > First, it is not true that Los Osos alone has created the sewer problem. It needs to be stated very clearly that the County made the choice to continue approving the building of homes even though they knew that the septic systems they were approving would damage the aquifer. The County is culpable. .... essentially had the County not approved far too many septics per acre, Los Osos would not have a problem at all.

Perhaps a bit over-simplified but still very true. For better and/or for worse we are all in this mess together. Morro Bay, the proximal parks and the surrounding eco-systems belong to all of us and not just to those who happen to live on its shores. It is a county resource. It is a state resource. It is a national resource. And it is a world resource. Some things just gotta be shared. And that includes taking care of things for the common good. You live in SLO county? You've got shared responsibility for the entire county. Why is this such a challenging concept? (See: Pres Bush on Global Warming.) Granted, Los Osos hasn't helped itself or the rest of the county with its internecine fighting and habitual blundering. But its had a lot of help getting into this mess. And will - no doubt - need equal amounts of help getting out of it. We're way past due paying for any kind of waste management system(s) so there's some catching up to do. But the mess we find ourselves in is a shared mess and much of the solution needs to be a shared solution. Get over it.

Shark again > Second, the vote on the recall and measure B is confusing and to say that the majority wanted a new location is in error. Many individuals were voting on hope ...

Not particularly wanting to stir up this murkiness again. I agree with Shark (at least I think we are in agreement ;-) that most of the population in the PZ - and I would extend that to include the rest of Los Osos - want to do the right thing. As Ann has so often said we are not anti-sewer. We are pro A Good Sewer. Which many of us believe to be a product of good process.

Shark > Third, as others have pointed out, Los Osos property taxes and building permit funds have gone to the County for some time now and we seem quite underserved when compared to other county areas. Perhaps that trend should be reversed.

This is something the rest of the county doesn't quite get. Because Los Osos is not incorporated we don't have a government presence to lobby for our share of the tax base. We get the county hand-me-downs. If you believe in Trickle Down then drive the streets of Los Osos. Least I propagate an urban myth I would love to see official county data mapping where and how county expenditures are allocated by neighborhood or community. I'll bet a bucket of donuts LO sits near the bottom of many a department's allocations. Does anybody know where this data might be published?

And I appreciate Shark's proposal to trap local property tax increases - some, if not much, of which will be a direct function of increased sewer fees - to pay down the sewer loan directly. Brilliant! OK, any new taxing schema needs proper vetting (See: Los Osos Sewer History) but ya gotta appreciate new good ideas when they are proposed. This isn't perfectly fair perhaps but few tax schemas are.

Anonymous said...

http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/AC/Financial_Reports/Current_Financial_Reports.htm

and

CALIFORNIA CODES
GOVERNMENT CODE
SECTION 27421-27423

Are some beginning points for all those who like to continue to debate whether or not the County has given their fair share back. There are laws under the Codes of California and are not arbitrary or again "magical". Do you really think we made it this far without some semblance of order from a higher level.

Los Osos citizens continue to share a disbelief of how the world operates outside our boundaries of the bay and the creek. We are not a nation unto ourselves -
read "The Mouse That Roared".

Anonymous said...

Looks like the State has had enough of the Los Osos Fun'n Games Silly Sewer Follies!

The June 18 Bankruptcy Meeting ought to be a real blast of reality!

*pg-13 said...

Anon > Are some beginning points for all those who like to continue to debate whether or not the County has given their fair share back.

Gee, thanks. I think. But, uh, ya know, I perused every page of that 196 page document (isn't the internet wonderful?) and nowhere does it give any insight into how the county allocates its funds to specific communities or neighborhoods. Indeed, it wasn't until page 181 that any kind of geograhic break-out was even alluded to. And then they only alluded to the 'major' incorporated cities. Specifically: Arroyo Grande, Atascadero, Grover Beach, Morro Bay, Paso Robles, Pismo Beach and San Luis Obispo. And this chart listed ONLY Direct and Overlapping Peroperty Tax Rates and had nothing to do with re-allocation. Kinda exactly my point. So, uh, what about my initial statement and/or my request for county allocation info did you miss? Its simple data. What is the reallocation of funds (on a per-capita basis) of income versus expenditure. As you pointed out, somebody has this data. Where can the rest of us get it?

Look, I appreciate there are checks and balances in the collection, management and re-allocation of county funds. This is Amerika. We can/should expect this. Off with their heads if such doesn't exist. Still, nothing you provided shed any more light on how county funds are allocated to specific communities. You say it exists but you wasted time referencing a worthless 196 page report which only Richard LeGros would appreciate. Don't get me wrong. Its a nice report. A solid 'A' in accounting .... for as far as it goes. One thing I'm kinda surprised about. Given how many times they used the County Seal in this report there should be a line item somewhere in this report for 'County Seal Printing & Reproduction'. I mean, somebody's gotta be making a nice piece of change every time they use the county seal in a report. Isn't that how government works? (Example: see page 8. or any of other dozens of pages throughout the document.)

Per my prior comment, I should also note that our county seal says: "Not For Ouselves Alone". And its not even in Latin! So I ask again. What is so challenging about accepting responsibility for the common good?

Anonymous said...

I'll take a stab PG-13 and opine that over time Los Osos has made itself so reprehensible, so anti- authority, so mean-spirited and litigious, so blaming while refusing to take personal responsibility, and so incapable themselves of working "for the common good" that those in authority, (supervisors; water boards; etc)and those who reside outside the community of Los Osos, have become extremely reticent to help them. And I would opine who can blame them. I know this is a simple answer to a complex question, but I give a lot of weight to human nature and the fact that Los Osos is just not considered a very "nice" place and a place many people want to "help."

Shark Inlet said...

Just a quick thought ... if one were to castigate the entirety of Los Osos as mean spirited one should probably call Atascadero mean sprited as well. Certainly their recall is over even sillier matters.

As to whether Los Osos is a "nice" place or not ... presumably you've never been here. As long as you don't tell people your opinion on the sewer issue, everyone is quite friendly.

That being said ... if you are a County resident ... are you willing to step up and help pay for the mess that the County supervisors created years ago when they allowed the continued development of Los Osos even though the County Public Health department told them that too many septics per acre was a huge heath mistake?

Anonymous said...

Are you willing to step up..? I would not be if I lived elsewhere, given the facts that (a) the County had a decent sewer project ready to build in 1997 that we prevented by voting for a CSD so we could go cheap (fast, better); and then we did it again when we voted on the measure that lead the CSD Board to stop the project that had finally gotten started.

Anonymous said...

Au contraire Shark, I'm a homeowner right in the middle of the PZ. And of course I know some great people in Los Osos. But regardless what you might think, Los Osos' reputation in the county is that of being mean-spirited and lacking personal responsibility. I spend a lot of time around this county, and I know the reaction I get when I say I live in Los Osos.

As to Atascadero, I wouldn't know, but I wasn't talking about Atascadero.

As to county residents stepping up to help, see my initial post about how Los Osos is perceived. Maybe if Los Osos behaved as a united community in need of help, just maybe, county resident's reaction would be different. Of course, I can't say for sure, though.

Shark Inlet said...

To our most recent two posters ...

About the friendliness ... I suspect that the impression those in the County as a whole have about Los Osos is based on the news media's portrayal of the sewer issue and not based on actually visiting town. Everyone I've met raves about the friendliness of folks in our town ... unless they witness a sewer discussion.

About whether the County has done enough to pay for their sins of causing the problem to begin with ... I would suggest that spending millions of dollars to help get a sewer designed is a good thing but .... first, Los Osos has been shortchanged by more than the millions the County has already spent and ... second, the County's plan seemed to need a bit more support in the form of information if a few random people named the "Solutions Group" could convince the rest of the town that there was something "better, faster, cheaper". Essentially the County should have spent some money advertising to protect their investment in the Pisomo project ... that they willingly gave up on it and gave it over to a group of folks (that the County surely recognized were not fully ready for the job) ... shows they were trying to dump their responsibility. This itself is inappropriate. Surely they should have known that the proposed LOCSD would screw it up and surely they should have known in advance that they might be on the hook again.

*pg-13 said...

Anon > .... over time Los Osos has made itself so reprehensible, so anti- authority, so mean-spirited and litigious, so blaming while refusing to take personal responsibility, and so incapable themselves of working "for the common good" that those in authority, (supervisors; water boards; etc)and those who reside outside the community of Los Osos, have become extremely reticent to help them. And I would opine who can blame them. I know this is a simple answer to a complex question, but I give a lot of weight to human nature and the fact that Los Osos is just not considered a very "nice" place and a place many people want to "help."

Thank you Anon. Fair enough. I can appreciate that perspective. I too believe that human nature is a powerful force in man's actions & responses. Which is why we have government. And laws, rules and regulations. If its on the books it can be enforced. Otherwise, go fish. The earlier Anon implied as much while s/he posted nothing related information. I myself am saddened by the Los Osos sewer saga. But, truth-be-told, it isn't because we are anti-authority, mean-spirited, overly litigious and refuse to take responsibility. Well, OK, some of that maybe ;-) But no more so than proper citizenship requires. That's my take anyway. Yes, the process has been exceptionally ugly. And inefficient. And bad governing has not added to the beauty or efficiency. Across the board: local, CSD('s), RWQCB, Coastal Commission, SLO county, ..... damn near anybody and every agency who has made a play is tainted. Enough already. Regardless, this shouldn't reduce itself to a popularity contest. Yes, you offer up a simple answer to a complex question. And human nature can never be completely removed from any human process. But we demand better of government. Or at least we should. The local level is where the forging of expectations is created. This is an ever-ongoing process. Democracy is not a static ideal. It is a dynamic, often painful, birthing process. Ever re-birthing itself anew. We just happen to be caught in still-birth labor. (Sorry for the inelegant simile.) Our governing processes have failed big time in this scenario. But that doesn't mean we don't work to fix it. Nor should government ever be based on perceptions of 'nice'. With respect to what we are discussing the government taxes and takes and should return proportionally. Even more so when the problem is in danger of polluting the commons. Too many cows grazing (and dumping on) the commons is not a good thing. We run the risk of destroying the commons. Forever. Or at least effectively so. And then what? Who's fault is that? And what good is blaming at that point?

Another (?) Anon > As to county residents stepping up to help, see my initial post about how Los Osos is perceived. Maybe if Los Osos behaved as a united community in need of help, just maybe, county resident's reaction would be different.

Maybe so. But it will be the county's loss when Morro Bay is no longer. That isn't to suggest that the citizens of Los Osos don't have a primary responsibility to do the right thing. But if they prove incapable how does the county gain by stigmatizing them with fault and living for the rest of time on a dead coast? I suppose we could draw some eco dollars as the perfect bad example of how NOT to handle ecological problems. Note, I'm speaking now not just of the Los Osos sewer. It is what it is.

Mike Green said...

Sharkey!!!!

I'm lovin it!

I've always felt that the county (and by that, yes the county taxpayers) should shoulder some burden.
Preach some more to the choir, please!

Anonymous said...

Dear PG13 -
If you had looked beyond the first very long report and taken that as background, you would have found the Property Tax information:

http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/AC/Property_Tax_Information.htm

Hope you find this a bit more helpful.

Anonymous said...

I thought that the formation of the CSD got such huge support by the voters because the County project had the chlorine (that was to be used in disinfection of the treated water) housed so close to the middle school. That seemed dangerous by many. But this is just what I have heard, I didn't live here then. Can anyone else expand on this?

Anonymous said...

Could someone help me remember what we were told by our CSD?

Something about the RWQCB would not or could not fine the community?

Anonymous said...

To 6:09AM,

You said (very early) this morning, "The people outside your town can not believe how insane your sewer war as gone. We don't want any of our property taxes to bail Los Osos out of the problem you alone have created. We are having discussions with our Supervisors to keep out of your local fighting."

I have a few comments on this:

#1 - At the latest RWQCB hearing, one of the board members said, "I don't know what I'd do if someone wanted to fine me $5,000. a day.."
People only understand when it happens to them! I don't think ANYONE in this county wouldn't complain if THEY were forced into a sewer bill of $300 to $400 a month (deferred costs...you know...)when the county could have had a project in the ground many years ago, BUT NO! They permitted the septics (when it was illegal to discharge) and built 25% more homes without a sewer....creating the VERY PROBLEM WE HAVE AND ARE BEING BLAMED INDIVIDUALLY FOR.

#2 - The Tribune has played a MAJOR role in making the people of Los Osos look bad. Their bias over the years is unbelievable to say the least. Notice how the story got buried about us NOT getting Capps' grant money, yet when the Congressman toured L.O. it was front page picture and story -- with the subhead stating they were walking in the SLUDGE in the bay. AND how the final screening story hasn't been in the paper yet after all the weeks of waiting -- unbelievable!!!!
Give me a freakin' break!

So, how would anyone outside L.O. feel about getting CDO (lottery style, certainly NOT FAIR, FIRM OR CONSISTANT! which is supposed to be their enforcement policy) or about threats and blackmail from a state agency that said you'd have to vacate your home or if you don't vote a certain way you'll face fines and NOW we've got 4crapkiller saying if you vote no on the 218 they'll look at your ballot and give a cdo to you.

This is America? Seems to me more like voting in Iraq under Saddam Hussein - vote his way or be killed the next day at noon!

Anonymous said...

Day 2 of the Dr. Ruehr Watch;

Where is all his documentation for his public statements???

A cocktail napkin, anything, would suffice.

I mean, he's a Ph.D., how hard can it be???

400,000 gpd / 1000 = 400 gpd (less actually, Ruehr actually answered it was OVER 1000 TIMES oversized at Broderson). Jeez, even Ron could hit a home run with one that easy!! But then again, Ron stated he thinks Ruehr knows his stuff.

Waiting.......

Anonymous said...

"Could someone help me remember what we were told by our CSD?

Something about the RWQCB would not or could not fine the community?"

The RWQCB seems to have gone to the hardball to deal with the CSD, McPherson, Barrow, Swanson, Tacker, Schicker, Tacker, Martin, and the rest of the extreme obstructionists. Can anyone say they couldn't see this coming? Honestly, the State has a difficult responsibility to enforce laws, laws for the whole State. Lisa Schicker and Julie Tacker have gone way, way out of their way to insult and threaten the RWQCB. They encouraged others to be as outrageous as possible toward the Water Boards, the County, Mr.Blakeslee and the past Board Members. Julie went so far as to say the RWQCB couldn't fine Los Osos because they didn't have the manpower. Guess they must have hired some more workers. In the meantime, the CSD went out and bankrupted the District. It's time for Lisa Schicker and Julie Tacker to resign in the disgrace they worked so hard to earn!

Take notice that the State Attorney General is now involved. The State ordered audit is about to begin! There could and should be some prison time for the willful disregard of prudent governmental management and extreme fiscal mismanagement!

Anonymous said...

Read Anon 8:10 and count how many external things he/she blames for Los Osos' sewer problems. The #1 problem with Los Osos is some people's inability to take responsibility. Let me ask you something Anon 8:10, did you vote for the recall? If so, then add a #3 to your list.

Anonymous said...

Something not mentioned on this site or anywhere else is the fact that as the time has gone on, federal and state environmental standards have changed dramatically. What was acceptable in 1980, or 1985, or 1990, or 1995, is absolutely taboo now.

You can blame whomever you want: Local, County, State, Federal- just remember to temper your rage with the rational truth that as times changed, so did the regulations.

Still, I do not see why someone who lives in Arroyo Grande should be stuck with the sewer bill for Los Osos.

Los Osos folk should realize that their own recalcitrant attitudes and behavior have brought them to this point of critical mass.

Those Type-A, wild-eyed troublemakers have been romanticized so much by the media, that the too-laid-back segment of Los Osos (unfortunately the majority of the people) that they do not even bother to vote, or take a stand, or assess reality, or let their opinions be heard, because so many of them are dulling their senses with (fill in the blank). They see a guy on a street-corner with a sign, and they vote that way.

THAT is the essence of the majority of the citizens of Los Osos.

I was hoping that with the addition of the Starbuck's in Los Osos, that some of the citizens would frequent the establishment, get out of the self-induced "fog" they are in, and see what is happening in the community.

I guess all the caffeine in the world cannot budge the inertia, probably induced by the high nitrate content of the water that they drink, shower with, and brush their teeth with.

Los Osos, you have gotten yourself into quite a mess.

Straighten it out yourself. Those of us who have followed this ugly scenario have had it up to here with your whining, complaining, histronics, drama, potential violence, etc.

Your town needs to GET A GRIP.

And, it needs to be done NOW.

Other small towns are dealing with their problems and delimmas, and not making themselves the complete laughingstocks of the world, as you are.

Boot the ignorant and the uneducated bozos off your "board", and get some real, professional folks onboard, and get on with life.

WE in the County will NOT pay for your damned sewer.

Anonymous said...

"AND how the final screening story hasn't been in the paper yet after all the weeks of waiting -- unbelievable!!!!"

Maybe there really isn't a very interesting story in that report to the bulk of the readership. It's just a report that is fairly comprehensive and will be split up on side and down the other by the Litigation Denomination of this community.

I'm sure there are already clandestine meetings being held by the "pods" to calculate the best way to undermine Los Osos from ever developing a sustainable water supply.

How sustainable is it to have a water supply that is unusable?
If it became infected with Polio or Cholera, whose fault would that be then? The RWQCB? The County? Were they out here using our bathrooms!
Oh yeah, we are the county and yes, we were using our bathrooms! Dang....

Snowy Plover said...

Great post anon 8:10. The haters are getting shrill again. Anybody else enjoy the Water board's latest mass mailing about how we'd better vote?
Too many capos, cronies, and crazies around here.
Is it just possible that Dr. Ruhr was misquoted? Or there was a typo?
Those trashing him should judge their resume of expertise up against his. All these anoymice experts. The Tri Dubya True Believers. Gotta Save The Dream.
Lost 3 elections. Three in 2 years.
Spend all this time telling the Internets that Ann Is Wrong. Everyday. For a long long time.
But don't pay attention to such a minor little blog. Flame it everyday all the time , but don't pay attention folks, nothing to see here. How many time have some of these assholes posted, telling us how unimportant Ann is, pr what a bad thing she is doing with this blog. I'll bet money anoymussharkcrap have spent many many hours telling us not to pay attention to Ann or Ron or whoever else thinks that this problem has more to do with politics and power than with polution or good public policy.
Osos has been painted with an ugly face for a long time. These guys spend too much time tagging it.

If Maria Kelly wants to reach out to the Whole Community , Maybe she could ask the Water Board a few direct questions:
"If the voters of Los Osos do not pass a 218 vote, will you then directly begin enforcement aginst all the homeowners in the PZ? Or maybe a few more random ones? Or will you weigh this decision against other criterea before executing enforcement against the violators?
Can you explain the dfference between what you are saying in your mass mailings to PZ homeowners and electioneering, so they we, your humble accused, can understand the difference?
How is the tested difference in quality of Los Osos groundwater
a multi hundred milllion dollar problem when it is compared to aquifers across the state of California. How many 200 million dollar projects are being pursued across this State based the same exacting criterea as we are blessed with in our case??
Do the edicts of appointed State board members trump the power of the electorate?

Anonymous said...

9:33, right on! Let's do away with all boards. Let the electorate at the local level decide everything. Hell, we don't even need no stink'n governor.

Water Board, out of here!! Let every farmer, company, and septic tank owner fend for them self.

State Board of Equalization! Out of here, although I have no idea what that Board does.

Licensing Boards!! Out of here, let the local electorate pass anything it wants and license any quack it wants to!!

UC Regents!! Out of here! Hmmm, not a bad idea, what do they do?

Franchicse Tax Board!! Hoo-Rah, out of here! The electorate can just vote their own tax rates!

Power of Electorate?!? Are you kidding, the State Board is the result of the electorate - the State Electorate. Guess you just don't want to be regulated, period, you want to make your own regulations.

Anonymous said...

"Do the edicts of appointed State board members trump the power of the electorate?"

We can only hope yes, if the voting public in Los Osos is any barometer as to the voters' understanding what they are voting on!

Somebody who knows something had better step up and save poor, piss-stricken Los Osos.

Anonymous said...

When are we going to do something about our pollution? No amount of deflecting the blame to the County or the Water Boards is going to protect our water. To vote No on a 218 out of spite would be to cut any remaining shred of respectability with those very agencies that want us to succeed despite the efforts of a few to convince us we have no need for a relationship with our larger umbrella of government. This problem is all about government. You can stick out your tongue at any effort to cooperatively solve a government problem. Or we can vote to do something to improve our community and at the same time remove any doubt to anyone and to any agency that we can control our future and not let the future control us.

Anonymous said...

Just watched the Planning Commission on channel 21 starring Bruce Buel and Jon Seitz. .... can anyone spell corruption? You'll soon see the Nipomo residents screaming too.

Los Osos isn't the only place getting ripped off big time.

Anonymous said...

I would never vote for a $200 million dollar project when we can have one for $100 million less.

It's not a $10. difference -- it's a $100 million dollar difference.

What is the matter with you people? A project that does a better job of wastewater treatment for $100 million less. Who in their right mind wouldn't want that?

Shark Inlet said...

To our out of town friend of 9:25pm ...

Presumably you missed the explanation of why the County has played a role in the past and is morally culpable. Admittedly, the "wild-eyed troublemakers" as you call them haven't helped us straighten up the mess, but please realize that the mess has been essentially one created by the County.

It's sort of like this ... if a friend leaves a box of take-out food in your trunk when you drove him home a week and a half ago ... and because you didn't need to use the trunk yourself ... you didn't notice it until a few days ago ... the smell is really noticeable and unpleasant. When you finally open the trunk because you were asked to do so by your good friend the water guy you notice that not only was your friend's old food in the trunk, it had spilled and a lot of the chow-mein has dripped into the wheel well and the kung-pao chicken ... you don't want to know.

Who has the responsibility to clean the mess up? You because it is your car? Your friend because he is the one who made the mess? The water guy who alerted you to the issue?

I would think that the primary responsibility is yours ... hell, it's your car and you lack of dealing with the problem in the week since the smell appeared is pretty much your fault. On the other hand, the friend who left the mess in the first place should at least help out, give you a card or a gift or something.


What do I want from you and the folks in AG and Paso and SLO? An admission that it is the County supervisors and staff who made a few huge mistakes years ago when they approved development at densities far higher than they knew at the time were appropriate for septic systems (the argument at the time was something like eventually a sewer will go in so this density is okay) and especially after 1983 when there was already a discharge prohibition when the County continued the approval of development (again with the same argument). Their approval of the building of homes when there was not the infrastructure to adequately support those homes is negligence.

While it was decades ago that the County made this mistake, they (and you because you are a County resident) are still in the wrong. Is big tobacco off the hook for smoking deaths just because the lung cancer risks weren't fully known in the 1940s when cigarettes were given to US soldiers? Would Detroit be liable for traffic deaths if they had made a choice to knowingly install brakes that were not up to design specification ... even if it takes years to notice that the brakes don't work as well in that model? Would gender discrimination in salary be appropriate if it isn't noticed until well after the fact? [Umm ... scratch that last example.]

So now that you are comfortable in your guilt ... what do you owe us?

You certainly don't owe us the entire cost of our sewer. You certainly do owe us something. Whether past County efforts suffice or not is arguable, but I've suggested that the County has put less into parks and roads and streetlights and the like in Los Osos (on a per-capita basis) than most of the rest of the County and certainly when compared to the other "big" areas like Cambria, Nipomo and the like...

I've suggested that essentially some Los Osos tax dollars could remain "at home" (as it were) to help pay for our sewer. Does this bother you because then the County couldn't continue their taking our property money and using it on parks and libraries for other communities?

Thoughts?

Would you be willing to give even $1.50 per month to the cause? If not, please give back your library and park now because if we can't help each other out, we ought not to take handouts either.

ps - I really have to agree with both you (that our town needs to get a grip) and the poster who noted that the nature of the news industry has in part created some ill-will toward Los Osos in our County. Certainly the bizarre characters and events in our town have led to "fun" headlines like "Los Osos totally f*cked-up now" but the lack of detail in the news section of the newspaper has not helped those really wanting more information. I don't view the Trib as horribly biased, but their reports seem to do little more than scratch the surface and give opportunities to various "names" to give quotes.

*pg-13 said...

Anon 5:13 > If you had looked beyond the first very long report and taken that as background, you would have found the Property Tax information:

Cool. And thank you. Yeah, you're right. After perusing the 196 page report and finding nothing relevant I didn't dig any deeper. I'm sure the data which will prove once and for all, one way or the other, that taxes collected against revenues allocated on a community/neighborhood per capita basis is somewhere to be had. Sadly I looked in the next link you posted and it isn't there either. I scanned the 43 pages of that report and found more relevant data regarding the basis of collections and how fundds are distributed but I didn't see anything that would contradict the previous contention that unincorporated areas of the county might well be short-changed on the distribution end. Rather I do see evidence that Los Osos only received allocations thru the school district and the CSD. While there were numerous distinct allocations to the familiary-named cities and redevelopment projects (which were in every instance related to these very same cities). The pie chart on page 13 graphically represents the property tax dollar distribution by government agency. The pieces of the pie are: Schools 61.8%, County General Fund 24.6%, Cities 7.2%, Special Districts 3.9% and Redevelopment Agencies 2.5%. Let's see. I'm sure we do get our fair bite from the Schools slice. And we, by definition, get our money back from our CSD assessments. But its not clear whether we get to nibble from the Cities slice or the Redev Agencies slice. Those two represent ~10% of the pie. Maybe those are assessment based allocations and we don't deserve a bite. That's not clear in the report. And how the county allocates from its General Fund isn't specified. Not in this report anyway. I'm sure that's documented somewhere. But I've now scanned almost 250 pages of reports which you claim prove Los Osos gets its fair share and I've not seen documentation to support your claim. I have seen reason to question it. I'm not an accountant nor a tax lawyer (thank dog!) and I only vaguely recall high school civics (that's what they called it back in the day ;-). So I'm not claiming a lot of expertise here. But why is this proof not more readily evident? We see our roads (or lack thereof). We see our parks and other community resources (or comparative lack thereof). And we hafta wonder ..... where's the beef?

Let's not get lost in a distraction. Tax revenue allocation imbalance isn't the major topic here. It was raised by Shark (and others) as just one part of an economic imbalance which may aggravate the debt service of our sewer. And that maybe the county could pony up a bit more or get a little more creative to help finance a critical piece of county infrastructure. The county played a key role in creating this mess. They shouldn't shirk from playing a key role in fixing it.

Shark Inlet said...

To the bozo of 10:28pm who tells us that a project could be $100M less than what the County proposes.

You or others have suggested this several times. Al and Orenco have told us that the total bill would be considerably lower.

However, no numbers have come forward that have justified this claim. Unless you put your data on the table you are no more than a bozo with an opinion.

Just to put my data on the table ... if a $100M project were to take 4 years before construction starts and (with inflation of 8% per year) we would have to finance that privately at 6.5% over 30 years, the total principal+interest over the 30 years would be about $62k per home.

A $200M project that could start construction next year that is financed with a low interest SRF loan of 2.5% over 20 years would be about $55k per home.

So ... if you would just care to justify the $100M less claim. By the way, if you're going to trot out the Orenco pamphlet from last fall, you should please explain why the Orenco system is designed to handle less flow (in gallons per person) than in other communities where they've put in projects.

Anonymous said...

Sue the County. If the case is so strong, find an attorney who would take the case pro bono.

Anonymous said...

Thank you SharkInlet & pg 13 for intelligent and thoughtful posts.

Anonymous said...

I don't believe that Orenco can give out figures until the RFP process. But the systems they've put in cost less that what's proposed here.

Why wouldn't the county consider projects such as Arcata and Petaluma?

Just wondering.

Snowy Plover said...

9:48: Points for cherry picking and conflating to the extreme.
10:22a: Points for elitist disdain. Certainly, your expertise must be exceptional.
Minus points for follow up cherry picking.
10:22b: Why do you assume a no vote on 218 to be based in spite?
Explain how if a 218 without a project already chosen is good way to do this. Why wouldn't a voter view this as giving the county a blank check?
I am glad you agree that it is a problem all about government.
I submit that the majority of the problem is the needs of power vs, the execution of good public policy. Fueled by hyperbole and functionaries.
10:24: funny how the same names keep appearing. I wonder how long before the residents of Nipomo will become the targets sadistic humor and pahtetic journalism from around our county.
Corruption? That is what a terrorist or crazy person would say. Corruption in California pollitics? In SLO??? I'd better check myself in, my meds need changing.
Okay there I'm better.
The TAC is unbiased and expert. The Water Board are Unimpeachable procters of the State good. The County Board of Supervisors always make the best decisions.
I'm a Los Osos land owner situated in the fairly and expertly executed Prohibition Zone and all of this is my fault. So if I dont vote the way the appointed Water board wish me to do, then I should be punished with criminal violation. Even if it meant voting for "a blank check".
Okey Dokey...

Anonymous said...

10:28:

A project for $100 million less? Well why didn't you just say so. How could we be so stupid. Of course you have a project for $100 million less. That's all I need to vote No on a 218, a bunch of ding-bats spouting numbers out of their rear. Why didn't you just say $150 million less, it sounds even better. How about $200 million less? I bet you have a plan that provides a chicken in every pot as well.

Anonymous said...

It's always such a pleasure to read yesterday's blogging while having the first cup of coffee.

Los Osos can't be a real place, it must be one of the insane "reality" shows with hand-picked characters to act out dramatic roles. Sewerville USA, kinda Dog Patch of California.

Anyway folks, thanks for all the laughs watching your show. Can't wait to the last show where the State has bought all the houses back for a buck a piece and is removing all the houses and streets and letting it return to an ESHA with no people allowed.

What a bunch of morons! Just build the sewer and toss the CSD in jail!

Mike Green said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mike Green said...

Ron wrote:

"If it was discovered that one of the "Viable Project Alternatives" scrutinized in the Fine Screening Report for the Los Osos wastewater project required a second, "future project" to "meet the required capacity for buildout flow," would that be considered a "fatal flaw" for that alternative, or will the TAC allow another project (other than Tri-W) through the fine screening process that will also require a "future project" to meet the planning needs of Los Osos?"

The TAC report reads:
"Table 7.2 provides construction costs and operation and maintenance costs of the Tri-W
project for comparison to viable project alternatives. The construction costs are primarily
based on bid tabs from treatment facility and conveyance system bids on the project. For
equivalent comparison, on-lot lateral costs developed in Chapter 3 of this report are
included here since they are included in the other viable project alternatives.
The Tri-W project did not include adequate disposal capacity to meet the buildout flow. To
make the comparison of the Tri-W project equivalent to the other viable project alternatives
developed in this report, additional costs for routing flow to a spray field site is included.

I don't know if this helps Ron, but it seems that the "future project" IS included.

4crapkiller said...

I notice that many are taking the Trib to task for making county property owners look at those in Los Osos as being unintelligent, etc.

The view of Los Osos is formulated by the same old Los Osos nut cases that speak at BOS meetings and those who spoke for years at LOCSD meetings.

For years the general county population has been able to view these meetings on TV or over the web. They have looked for sanity and found it absent.

And strangely, it continues.

Mike Green said...

Been reading the fine report.
One question I'm curios about is has anyone explored the possibility of a property swap with the owners of the preferred out of town property? Seems like that could be a win-win. We get enough acreage to build what we need and they get a very desirable bay view property ready for development.
How would that effect the cost comparisons?
I don't see anywhere in the report any comparisons of the value of the different sites, just a statement about approximate costs per acre.

Mike Green said...

Anon blithered from afar:
"WE in the County will NOT pay for your damned sewer."

Oh yes you will.
Nobody escapes the economy stupid.

Anonymous said...

Mike Green: You may have hit on the full blown concept (Plan?) by our CSD and Legal Staff (just how many lawyers are on the payroll these days?), but if the concept that "Nobody escapes the economy..." is taken to the upper limit (within the United States), then everyone in the USA should be paying a portion of the Los Osos sewer bill.

Could it be that if we just stall long enough, the FED EPA will have to come in and build the sewer? Gold plated and all, but we might only have to pay $10/month, or maybe $1,000/month? But then no CSD in the US has every tried to fight the system the way our boys and girls of the CSD have!

Mike Green said...

Bwaa ha ha ha! YES the EVIL PLAN!!!

No, what I'm alluding to of course is that we are all interconnected economically, that even if it comes down to just the PZ paying the whole bill it will have negative effects on nearly everyone in the county. True, the PZrs will feel the immediate pain, but just like tourist dollars generate multiples of themselves and benefit more than just the hotels, infrastructure costs do the same thing in reverse.
Last time I looked there was no mint in Los Osos
Just where do you think the money is going to come from?

Anonymous said...

Gee, I wonder whatever happened to those water samples that Capps and company took from the bay?

Could that be connected to the denial of federal grants?

No poo, no pay!

*pg-13 said...

Anon >> You may have hit on the full blown concept (Plan?) by our CSD and Legal Staff

Mike Green> Bwaa ha ha ha! YES the EVIL PLAN!!!

The cat's out of the bag. I guess it does no good to deny what is now obvious. The True Plan spawned by someone who's identity is still unknown - let's call her/him Deep Sewer - is even more devious and machiavellian than anything Pandora could contrive. And the scope of the plan is awesome. I mean, each and every player in this long sordid affair - including but not limited to multiple CSD's, the RWQCB, the Coastal Commission, SLO County, Save the Dreamer's AND Move the Sewer's, a mixed bag of lawyers, Ann, even Ron Crawford, as well as a fully stuffed deck of amazingly odd citizens that would make Charles Dickens envious - have all played into the plan perfectly one and all. This has all been just a ploy to get a gold plated sewer built and paid for by anybody except the residents of the PZ. Brilliant! In both design and execution! A true marvel. Dang, I wish I had thought of it. Kudos to Deep Sewer - the ultimate player!

4crapkiller said...

To pg-13 concerning the evil plan and "deep sewer".

Everyone looks for a conspiracy theory after a five martini lunch!

Pretty funny post. Good sarcasm! Ha!

Just put the criminally negligent recall board in Jail!

Anonymous said...

Wonder if Lisa and Julie will get to meet Paris Hilton?

Anonymous said...

Or maybe even Lindsey Lohan!!!! Britney Spears, perhaps?

Tom said...

To Mike Green, what do YOU MEAN, "even if the PZ pays for the entire project, the entire county will feel the pain"? How so, if ONLY THE PZ IS PAYING FOR THE MONSTER SEWER, where is the "PAIN" to the REST OF THE COUNTY? Please clarify...

Tom

Mike Green said...

Tom,

"Pain (economically) is a relative term will the rich have as much pain at 300/mo as the poor?

Plus, I think I wrote "negative effects"

Anyway, I'll try to clarify.

The post was in response to an out of town poster ranting that they wouldn't pay ANYTHING for the LO sewer, mainly because they blamed the populace of Los Osos completely for the mess that is Los Osos (sewer wise).
Not an unwarranted view in my opinion, but a moot point.

I simply pointed out to said anon that you can not escape the economy, every dollar that is spent by the residents in the PZ for the sewer is for infrastructure that is, quite frankly, free now.
Thats a lot of buckos not going into the local economy that dose now.
That is a negative effect that has the ability to magnify the results in much the same, but opposite, ways tourist dollars do.

Plus, you have to wonder, what would it cost the entire state, per capita, to pay for the sewer. then compare that economic "pain" with the people in the PZ.

Anonymous said...

Please, let's not forget that the county and the rwqcb agreed that the people of los osos did not need to know that they were discharging illegally, most likely because data used to create the PZ was not valid. We bought our homes with a building moritorium, not a discharge violation. To now place the blame on us when the controversy and the lies started with them, is wrong. Neither the county nor the rwqcb want us to look too closely into the past. Where is Roger Briggs?

Anonymous said...

You really should take your medication! You are so out of control of the waste water treatment that all you have left is emotional hand wringing and lying to yourself and anyone who you think will listen. Well, we aren't listening to you or any of the extremists any longer. You brought on the Bankruptcy and the CDO's. Now go beat up some other elder person in a wheelchair you loser!

Anonymous said...

To Mike Green and his regurgutation of 9:52, 6/5/07:

Don't think so, moron.

You people decided on a Board of Directors who, essentially screwed over the entire town.

The price shall be extracted from the assets of those individuals responsible for the irresponsible actions, long before any of us County residents will be. AND, there are one whole hell of a lot of us, with one hell of a lot more
$ behind a sincere fight than you Los Osos piss-ants, with all your local bullshit that drives your "so-called" community.

Your Board is stale garbage, by County standards.

Anonymous said...

Sustainability is the use of resources to meet the needs of today's generation without inhibiting the ability of future generations to meet their needs.

Thank Dog! said...

> You really should take your medication! ....

Come to Los Osos. Partake of the waters. Relax with the natives. Take pics. Enjoy life. I mean, what does Cozumel have on us? Other than a sewer. Minor detail.

Anonymous said...

http://www.percwater.com/small_footprint.html

Anonymous said...

http://www.percwater.com/index.html

This company appears to have far more credibility than the Ripley. In fact it would have been Orenco and Ripley tied into one. Ironically, they recommend burying your facility so you can use the ground above for additional community amenities. WOW,innovative and creative and award winning.
Too bad Los Osos isn't creative enough to come up with this kind of idea and combine efforts.

Anonymous said...

Well get the percwater folks over here for god sakes. I looked at the link and it seems like it should be in the mix. These are the kind of solutions we need big time! Propose solutions and stop just yelling at the county. Whoever you are I appreciate the percwater link very much.

Anonymous said...

You guys just don't give up. Anyone who states an honest fact like the county shouldn't have built 1,100 homes after 83-13 and created the pollution they're blaming and punishing us for (same goes for the Regional Board) and the fact that wasn't disclosed by any realtors is always Al Barrow.

Many people feel the same way and we all can't be Al Barrow no matter what YOU WRITE OR HOW YOU TRY TO PAINT THE PICTURE.

And to 9:06,
Well, the county will come and take it's piece out of you too in time, afterall this is SLO county!

Anonymous said...

oh brother, yet another pie'n'the'sky company to the rescue

Anonymous said...

Don't worry 9:28. I put that in there because they basically propose to do what Tri-W did. There is no way they would ever work with a bankrupt CSD and a community that doesn't really know what they think they want.

Mike Green said...

To the idiot anon that posted drivel at 9:06,
You virtually agree with everything I say, then you cal ME moron?

Lets take a look:
You:
"You people decided on a Board of Directors who, essentially screwed over the entire town."
Me:
"The post was in response to an out of town poster ranting that they wouldn't pay ANYTHING for the LO sewer, mainly because they blamed the populace of Los Osos completely for the mess that is Los Osos (sewer wise).
Not an unwarranted view in my opinion, but a moot point."
I, in no way disagree with your point, I simply believe for the sake of this discussion that it has no bearing!
You:
"The price shall be extracted from the assets of those individuals responsible for the irresponsible actions, long before any of us County residents will be"
Me:
"I simply pointed out to said anon that you can not escape the economy, every dollar that is spent by the residents in the PZ for the sewer is for infrastructure that is, quite frankly, free now. "
Even you admit some price will be paid by everybody else in the county.
Look at the statements, we agree!
Moron!

4crapkiller said...

Mike Green:

AHH! The angel Moroni has decended upon you, fizzed the SLO Gin Fizz, and you now see the light! And why do you take offence in being called a Moron by a Moron? Surely you have been called worse, perhaps even by yourself. In the meantime you are absolutely correct. The cost of the sewer will lower the spendable income of property owners in the PZ and renters if their rents can be raised. The whole county loses.

Keep twisting the dials, beat the drums, and call for cargo! It ain't over yet.

Thank Dog! said s/he ... said...

Oh yes! Of course.

Come to Los Osos. Partake of the waters. Relax with the natives. Take pics. Enjoy life.

Twist some dials. Beat some drums. Dance with the locals. Pray for cargo. Eat your heart out Cozumel!

Anonymous said...

Cargo is the Plan! Cargo will provide! Cargo and cloud seeding!

Churadogs said...

Crapkiller sez:4crapkiller said...
Hey Ann: How do you like the above for a little fear?

11:48 AM, June 04, 2007 "

Actually, for fear-mongering, I think your previous posting is the one to beat -- THE BALLOT IS NOT SECRET! WE KNOW YOUR NAMES! IF YOU VOTE NO WE'LL FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE AND COME AFTER YOU, etc. Woa, crap, you need to pay attention to what you're writing before you start pointing fingers at other. Fear mongering? Your posting is tops! Congrats.

PG-13 sez:"What is the reallocation of funds (on a per-capita basis) of income versus expenditure. As you pointed out, somebody has this data. Where can the rest of us get it?"

I recall years ago Supervisor Bud Laurent tried to get that informtion and found out it was impossible. There wasn't any mechanism in place to access that information except in the vaguest way. And he was a supervisor. I was amazed. Clearly, nothing has been done to rectify the situation since. (Seems logical that Supervisors would need that information at their fingertips when they have to vote on fund allocation, to ensure their districts are being treated fairly. But if there's no way to track that money . . .? Very odd, if you ask me.

Inlet sez:"About the friendliness ... I suspect that the impression those in the County as a whole have about Los Osos is based on the news media's portrayal of the sewer issue and not based on actually visiting town."

Amen. Get The Story Wrong, and see how quickly Perception Becomes Reality.

Inlet also sez:"Essentially the County should have spent some money advertising to protect their investment in the Pisomo project ... that they willingly gave up on it and gave it over to a group of folks (that the County surely recognized were not fully ready for the job) ... shows they were trying to dump their responsibility. This itself is inappropriate. Surely they should have known that the proposed LOCSD would screw it up and surely they should have known in advance that they might be on the hook again."

According to Ron and his posted documents, the County knew BEFORE the CSD formation via the RWQCB's reports & etc. that the Ponds of Avalon would not be permitted. And, a few months agao, Paavo noted that one of the reasons the CSD's project failed ultimately is that the CSD didn't have the resources to do what the county's now doing -- i.e. a serious screening process of various alternatives. Paavo should know. He was the CSD's original General Manager and was present at the creation. In short, the County and the RWQCB all knew they were looking at a train wreck. (Also keep in mind thatse 1,100 homes permitted by the RWQCB & the County AFTER 83-13. And wer're supposed to think it's about clean water?


Anonynmous sez:"The State ordered audit is about to begin! There could and should be some prison time for the willful disregard of prudent governmental management and extreme fiscal mismanagement!"

Uh, be careful what you wish for. Audits -- especially forensic audits -- have an interesting way of often heading in, uh, unexpected directions.

Anonymous sez;""AND how the final screening story hasn't been in the paper yet after all the weeks of waiting -- unbelievable!!!!"

I found that most interesting. Big, ginormous important report on an issue that actually will involve the whole county in many ways, an issue that certainly has county-wide readership and curiosity and NOT ONE PEEP. Maybe they were witholding info on it until a reporter could read and digest it and wirte out a (probably incorrect) precis for some Saturday edition? but, jeeze, at least they could have put a little blurb in and a website for it's access. . . for the curious?