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Wednesday, June 20, 2007

An Interesting Wrinkle or Two

Went to the June 20, Town Hall Meeting at the Los Osos Middle School last night to hear the update on The Hideous Sewer Sardoodledom. Let’s see, there’s about 5,000 homes in the PZ that will be directly affected by this project and about, oh, maybe 100 residents showed up for the meeting. My, my, such interest! Especially, when people had a one-on-one chance to talk directly with the various project personnel and TAC members and the assessment engineer & etc. so as to ask questions and get answers.

The Process plods forward. There were a couple of interesting wrinkles for me. First of all, I’ve heard some folks complain that they’d never vote for a STEP system because they didn’t want their back yard all torn up to put a new tank in. Turns out that most of the tanks in town are now located in front yards, which, for some reason, surprised me as I just assumed they’d be in back. That makes replacement and monitoring easy since a new tank can be dropped in where the old one was and/or simply put the new tank under the driveway, for example, with riser and maintenance access near the street. (Even with gravity, the old tanks would have to be filled and new pipes dug out to the street to hook up to the sewer lines. Same thing would happen for STEP. Old tanks in the back yards (i.e. inaccessble) would be shut down and new lines run to the new tank under the driveway or in part of the front yard. (The Ripley report mentioned the possibility of using rights of way ajacent to the front of lots & etc. Additionally, the engineers have added in the cost of hook up which wasn't included in the original cost of Tri-W, so now STEP and gravity instalation costs are on a level field.)

That would eliminate the fear of whole back yards being torn up and/or maintenance people having to gain access to the yard to service the unit.

The next interesting thing is that the State Revolving Fund demands all sorts of expensive, redundant electrical stuff for STEP units that isn’t in the state engineering codes and not even recommended by STEP builders. The County is now preparing data to have ready to challenge that SRF requirement. If successful, (and if an SRF Loan is in play) that would also save additional money.

Another interesting chart that was shown had the cost breakdowns as follows:

65% collection systems
17 % disposal, water reuse
15% treatment plant
2% land size, cost and siting
1% biosolids/sludge disposal

This prompted Paavo Ogren to note that it could be possible to nail down the last four items, then look into setting up a competitive industry bidding opportunity between gravity and step systems, since the collection system is the biggest cost. That is, a treatment plant and site and a disposal plan is flexible enough to accommodate either gravity or STEP, so, in a way, it doesn’t really matter which type is picked. But it does matter which collections system is picked since that’s where the real cost savings can appear.

Right now, the state laws aren’t really clear on allowing the county to go straight to design build, but, according to Paavo, there may be ways to break up the process so as to invite seriously committed competitive bids that would give the community a more realistic idea of cost on both collections systems, a better idea than just vague “guestimates.”

As for "affordability," all that was mentioned is the continuing search for federal grants. The political climate in Washington is shifting now, so perhaps there will be a greater interest in domestic spending for infrastructure (long neglected, much to the woe of most of the country). That might result in grant monies that would pay for the treatment plant, for example. The County's also looking into some funding mechanism for low-income folks, a sort of "revolving" loan that could be available that would be paid back when the home is sold to help another low income family & etc.

Clearly, "affordability" is the 800 pound gorilla in the room and the simplest answer right now is, Cost is no barrier. It's gonna cost. Period. Nothing we can do about it except to try to get the cost down as low as possible, but there are no promises. Practically speaking, it will be interesting to see if the cost can be held to near what Tri W was (really) going to cost, only this time the treatment plant will be out of town, and will result in the water basin being balanced (i.e. no imported water) . If that happens and the price is still in the Tri-W's "real, actual" cost, then will that make the majority of the community happy? I suppose the assessment vote will give an answer.

The remaining tricky part is the part about water. And getting this project to both allow build out AND balance the basin will require participation by the water purveyors and that means payment for their fair share of the clean water for folks living outside the PZ. Breaking out just what that “fair share” will be will be tricky, but vital.

One thing is clear, water for Los Ososians, will cost more. Just like water rates are going up in SLOTown and everywhere else. And since everyone in the West knows, Whiskey’s fer drinking, Water’s fer fighting, maybe it’s past time to get down to the nursery to lay in a goodly supply of drought-tolerant native plants for the yard. Then, let the games begin.

52 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ann,

Yah wrote: "It's gonna cost. Period. Nothing we can do about it except to try to get the cost down as low as possible, but there are no promises. Practically speaking, it will be interesting to see if the cost can be held to near what Tri W was (really) going to cost......."

Golly gee whiz....didn't you blog in the past that the Ripley Plan and Step/Stag would be waaaaaay cheaper than Tri-W? Didn't you blog that Tri-W was not affordable....and now you write that a new project will be more expensive than Tri-W.....and the lowest cost that we can expect from a new project might be "near" what Tri-W would have been.

So Ann, you hasve encouraged all this mayhem over Tri-W just so we can spend more money?

Sorry, I now will support restarting Tri-W as soon as possible. Obviously you and others that fought Tri-W did not know what you were doing.

VOTE YES ON THE 218 VOTE.

Ron said...

Great report, Ann. Thanks. Much better than the Trib's, because they didn't have one.

Ann wrote:

"That might result in grant monies that would pay for the treatment plant..."

As long as that treatment plant includes things like $3,000 eucalyptus benches, $690,000 dog parks, and one million dollar playfields -- you know, the only reason why Tri-W was selected in the first place for the early LOCSD's second project (the ponding system was their first)... for a "centrally located" sewer-park -- I'll make sure that Los Osos doesn't get a penny of federal grant money. That will be very easy to do, and I'll be right, as usual. (Call it a hunch, but I can't imagine Capps' office pursuing federal money for things like a $38,000 picnic area in a sewer plant just so that sewer plant can be built in mid-town Los Osos. Think about it... would you if you were in her position? I sure wouldn't. It would be too embarrassing.)

Sorry, Los Osos, you're not going to get U.S. taxpayers to fund your park-project-that-includes-a-sewer-plant. If you step back and look at it for a second, it's only fair. You don't want to end up on a NBC Nightly News "Fleecing of America" segment, do you?

Typical Los Osos: "U.S. taxpayers, you WILL pay for the multi-million dollar park in our mid-town sewer plant."

Ummmmm... no we won't.

The TAC may not have any intentions of scrutinizing the park amenities found in the Tri-W project, unfortunately for California and U.S. taxpayers, but I sure do.

Anonymous said...

The opposition of the Tri W site were many. The site is nestled in the center of town by homes, community center, library, the wind moves mostly to our downtown area. The location is in a ravine that runs directly down to our national estuary, which will not flush out so easily, and Gravity systems have proven to overflow( imagine that stench and threat to the estuary). It is a eyesore to have a sludge factory at the gateway to Montana de Oro. The gravity system will create sludge required to haul out of town whic will be a health issue. Where will that sludge go? Did I mention an Eyesore in the center of town? ECT> ECT> ECT>

Anonymous said...

To Anon at 9:12,

Tri-W has huge health risks, and for you to IGNORE that is not good at all. Apparently the county has not looked at this yet - wonderful...

The county has only given us super expensive and super, super expensive - wonderful...

There are affordable ways to go, Orenco or clusters - it would only take some thinking out of the box, but the county doesn't want to think because apparently they have their agenda and agendas are hard to bust.

This is what Mr. Blakeslee did to us, taxing us out of our homes because the developers want in. He's protected his friends in Cabrillo - wonderful...

The county is happy for force us out so they can collect higher tax revenue and besides the land here is just too valuable.

I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES AND VOTE NO THANK YOU.

Anonymous said...

There will be NO GRANT MONEY until the SRF loan is repaid. Bruce Gibson has said this too.

When the county talks about grant money, it's just another PR move to trick everyone into thinking that even if we have the super-dupper, most expensive plant ever, we'll get money from grants to help!

... Sure -- there they go again - misleading the public knowing it's false.

Anonymous said...

There are no grants unless the SRF id repaid. Take it from someone who has inquired extensively.

Anonymous said...

My good Lord...now you try desperately to avoid the realization or responsibility for all the environmental and financial damage you have caused Los Osos.

The community continues to polute, have fines imposed, CDO's pending, deal with a major municpal bankruptcy all whhile the projec costs are going through the roof. The County's project project will be far more expensive than if Tri-W was just built to begin with.

It is laughable that now you try resurrecting all your fears over Tri-W. All your issues of leaks, spills, smell and health have been reviewed AD NAUSEUM, and have been resolved in the design of Tri-W. You are beating a dead horse on those issues. What next...are you going to tell use that Tri-W is the plan of the devil designed to steal our souls?

The credibility of the CSD board (less Joe Sparks), their policies and their supporters have lost all credibility. No one now listens or cares what the CSD does as they are impotent against the events which will soon befall them politically or in the courts.

VOTE YES ON THE 218 VOTE!

Anonymous said...

Orenco/Conspiracy Boy says:

"There are affordable ways to go, Orenco or clusters - it would only take some thinking out of the box, but the county doesn't want to think because apparently they have their agenda and agendas are hard to bust."

We ask him time and again for documentation on Orenco. He provides none. We ask him for proof the county has an agenda. He offers none.

Orenco/Conspiracy Boy says:

"Everybody get ready for the first big snowjob of summer... lengthy yarns about how Tri-W "slipped" through the Not-Fine Screening and how STEP/STEG numbers swelled up like a balloon to make gravity look tasty. Hmmmmm, yummy big, juicy, leaking gravity pipes snaking 20 feet under every street in town. Hmmmm. Special!"

So we ask him: (actually Shark asks him):

"Perhaps you could show us "how STEP/STEG numbers swelled up like a balloon". If so, this needs to be explored fully. So ... show us the numbers that demonstrate the error."

Orenco/Conspriacy Boy answers:

"You know they're inflated for STEP. Don't tell me you don't. The numbers will be brought forward. You'll see."

Read that again. "Don't tell me you don't know." That's his answer? You bet. That's his answer to everything. The guy is hystercially funny. I've seen a lot of misguided people on this blog, but this clown takes the cake.

Ignorant obstructionist. Nothing more. Nothing less. (By the way, when you disagree with him, or God forbid ask for proof, he'll tell you you are paid by the county to blog. Give it a try!!!

Anonymous said...

Hey Orenco/Conspiracy Boy....

Provide the proof of what you claim.
And your answer is.....?

signed,
Waiting for Hell to Freeze Over (retired)

Shark Inlet said...

Ron,

I love your method of saving money by making arguing over minutiae until the total cost goes up by 50-100%. You certainly are a wise man.

Nope, it seems that you aren't trying to save the residents of Los Osos, the County or the state any money but instead trying to get TriW quashed at any cost.

Shark Inlet said...

I'll agree with the 1st poster in this comment section ... in a limited way.

Ann's comments are essentially an admission that the costs will go up ... however, to back up Ann and Chuck's point of view ... it might be worth paying more to get the WWTF out of town.

I won't say that it is a good idea or not ... just that the attempt to "move the sewer" has cost a lot and that it would have been really nice had the "move the sewer" folks been wise and honest up front and admitted that their efforts were going to raise our bills.

Now that we are where we are in this process, it seems to me that TriW will come out on top and we'll only have to pay $275-325 per month (instead of $205 like we would have earlier) ... but if another, out of town option isn't much more it might be a good choice. I just doubt that any out of town option will be so much cheaper that the inflation associated with the delay won't actually make it far more expensive than TriW.

Anonymous said...

Taxpayers Watch gang wants "documentation" and "numbers" to prove that Orenco/Conspiracy Boy isn't full of it.

And if the "documentation" and "numbers" are not produced herewith, then Tri-W and Gravity wins the day!

Hey, Orenco/Conspiracy Boy, where are their numbers? They've never produced any, but are demanding yours. Sounds like they'te laying the Big Lie on you hot and heavy.

Those insane Dreamers! Jumpin' like fleas over the Tribune blog. Bloodsuckers need their fix. There is sure no action over at the Trib. I mean, they get tired of spinning to the choir.

Did I mention, Orenco/Conspiracy Boy that Taxpayers Watch is a pox upon the community as virulent as the pathogens their fatally flawed plan of death and destruction for Los Osos. Vote "Yes" on 218 and they promise to build a cancer factory in the middle of town to shorten our children's lives? Thank you, Taxpayers Watch, for watching out for us, our families, and how our CSD money is spent.

"Sowing Death and Destruction Wherever We Go" sounds like a catchy campaign slogan for Taxpayers Watch. How about a '08 ticket of scorched earthers Joyce and Lou?

Sharkey, Crapkiller, Taxpayers Watch, et al have NEVER produced any numbers or documentation that hasn't been thouroughly trashed and exposed. Just the same discredited numbers in the same yellowed Tri-W folder. Nothing new since 2001. Nothing independent of the county, MWH, and paid partners.

Oh, if you're relying on the county's numbers and swear by them, and do no thinking, no investigating of your own, then that's the same as HAVING NO NUMBERS AT ALL, because the county's numbers have been rigged to push a gravity dinosaur on Los Osos that is as dangerous to our health as a WWII bomb buried in the backyard. You obviously have no children (understandably, I mean who...would...ever...you...or call you Mother?), which explains why you couldn't care less. Cold and stupid, hellbent on destruction.

Not only have you no credible, independent numbers or documentation in support of the county's crafted casino numbers for high rollers and suckers only, but you can't offer one single INDEPENDENT EXPERT who will stand up for gravity in any forum in the county. Hasn't happened, ain't going to happen. In other words, you've gotten nothin' of your own. Nothin.' Not one outside independent tech expert who will come in and say gravity is good for Los Osos. Not one.

If you've got any independent confirmation of the county's numbers for STEP, post them here today. Or you're just a paid blogger for the county out to pick up a few 218 votes and some spare change for a fifth of your favorite short-term memory eraser.

In conclusion, the county's numbers are screwed -- and so are we if we buy them lock, stock and barrel. Just say NO to the lie inside the twisted 218.

4crapkiller said...

We have land, permits, and design already and we spent 26 mil on it. Who is going to pay the property owners back if we use an entirely different system at a different site. It will have to be included with the costs of the new site.

Or does every one want to continue to pay the taxes for the TRI-W system plus the new asessment for where ever out of town?

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:36, I never was a member of Taxpayers Watch, wouldn't even know a member if they walked in right now with a sign around their neck saying they were a member. It further shows your incredible ignorance that you think everyone who supports the county's efforts is a member of TW. You just HAVE to know what kind of dope you are to think that. Do I think everyone who doesn't want the sewer at Tri-W is a no-sewer obstrucionist? Of course not. I'm smarter than that. What I do think, however, is that anyone who claims Orenco is the answer, or who says that STEP out of town is going to be cheaper, or that the county process is corrupt, etc etc etc needs to provide PROOF and evidence of their claims. That's all. You understand that, right? Or are you just, unfortunately, too stupid?

Shark Inlet said...

To our somewhat obnoxious friend of 2:36pm who wrote:

"Sharkey, ... , et al have NEVER produced any numbers or documentation that hasn't been thouroughly trashed and exposed."

Ummm ... what have I put forward that has been "thoroughly trashed"?

Also when our friend wrote:
"Oh, if you're relying on the county's numbers and swear by them, and do no thinking, no investigating of your own, then that's the same as HAVING NO NUMBERS AT ALL, because the county's numbers have been rigged to push a gravity dinosaur on Los Osos that is as dangerous to our health"

Um ... I'm certainly thinking ... but in this case I'm thinking that you've not demonstrated your claim that the County has rigged the numbers to favor gravity over STEP ... Again, if you would be so kind as to point out the places in the fine screening draft report (perhaps giving the page number would help us out) where there is a bias against STEP we could do our own investigation...

Don't just criticize people for not thinking ... give us the information that would allow us to verify whether you're right!


On a more general note, perhaps the scientific method should be explained because it seems that some might not understand it ...

The key to the scientific method is this ... those making a new claim must produce evidence that the old belief was wrong and that the new belief should be preferred. For example, if the prevailing belief was that the world was flat, Magellan could demonstrate both that the old belief was wrong but also that the Earth was round by sailing around the world. While he didn't finish the voyage to prove his point, Elcano did.

Similarly, because you're asking those with a predisposition to trust the County to change their beliefs and to doubt the Cleath report ... it would seem that if you really want others to adopt your point of view, the burden of proof is on your shoulders.

Otherwise you're just some anonymous guy posting comments on a blog asking us to trust him and to doubt those who are held up as experts. Until you give us a solid reason to doubt these experts, you're not going to convince anyone.

Perhaps you are the individual who earlier said your goal isn't to convince us of anything ... if that is the case, why bother posting here at all?

That being said ... because you're the person offering up alternative theories as better than those accepted by the County ... convince us you're right. If the "County's number are screwed" it would be quite helpful if you could show where they are in error.

Anonymous said...

I do belong to TaxPayers Watch and I do have an open mind as to type(s) and location(s) of components of a sewage collection/waste water treatment system and salt water intrusion reversal process. I am even open to a side-by-side cost and risk/benefit comparison.

It is my understanding that just such a comparison is currently being prepared by the County. Reading the past couple weeks of postings leads to the conclusion that few are actually aware that the County has the responsibility to produce the project.

Apparently this, Ron's and the Trib blogs are only producing minimal digit exercise and a maximum of emotion, but no reliable cost/engineering data.

It might save someone a stroke if everyone would back off and wait patiently for the County, there really is nothing we can do at this point unless we want to continue to blast away with emotion.

By the way, I don't work for San Luis Obispo County or the State. But I am a voteing taxpaying property owner.

Anonymous said...

Sharkinlet,

Aren't you married to Pandora? Don't you have to pimp for her project?

Anonymous said...

A typically ignorant response from a typically ignorant no-sewer obstructionist. Don't you guys ever have any facts, evidence, or proof to back up your wild accusations? Or is it always word games, insults and mis-direction to hide the fact you're, well, ignorant?

Anonymous said...

To Anon at 5:17 above:

You can call us ignorant. You can call the experts ignorant, and you have. But in reality, only the most ignorant people would ever want to place a sewer factory (and try to convince us it will smell like, uh, roses?) in the heart of Los Osos that is a diaster in the making.

Hasn't the county/Blakeslee made it so that they are not liable for any accidents or problems...yep...we pay for any mistakes. Kinda reminds me of how Sam Blakeslee tried to write the legislation making only the PZ homeowners pay for the CSD's $40 some million debt...who is he protecting in Cabrillo?

What facts do you want? What are these "wild" accusations you speak of?

You can't even tell the truth in your first sentence. No-sewer? Obstructionist?

Tell me now, wasn't it the county who didn't put in a sewer for 20 years? Again, who is the obstructionist?

You are obstructing -- by not allowing us put in a good, environmentally sound, energy efficient, affordable system geared for 2007. You are the obstructionist!

Why don't you try to be honest at least for a day -- it could be good for your soul.

Anonymous said...

"You are obstructing -- by not allowing us put in a good, environmentally sound, energy efficient, affordable system geared for 2007."

What is the system? Where will it be located? Will it pass muster with the RWQCB? Where will the financing come from? What is the cost?

As far as wild accusations, you throw so many out each night i don't know where to start, but let's start with this: "But in reality, only the most ignorant people would ever want to place a sewer factory (and try to convince us it will smell like, uh, roses?) in the heart of Los Osos that is a diaster in the making."

Tell us about the odors, and most importantly, about the disaster in the making. Be specific please.

4crapkiller said...

A 219 vote is simply a vote by property owners to asess themselves for a sewer. The county will decide where and what kind of system suits us best. It will be based upon reason and intelligence.

With a no vote the CDOs will come into play, and the cost of individual discharge permits. Regardless there will be a sewer. If the county can't do it, the state will. However until the state comes in, after 2011, property owners will be paying for discharge permits. The CCRWQCB is on record as to $30 a day. This is $900 a month. This will be far more than any cost for a sewer.

Of course the renters don't care, they can move if their rents are pushed up. But where? Lots of places: Arkansas comes to mind. How about the property owners? Can they walk away?

Anonymous said...

OK, Sharky and 4Crapkiller...

I can't show you the way to a divided past, and you persist with this red herring you call "burden of proof" -- basically "prove it or lose it," which has nothing to do with the truth -- which is all I'm interested in.

So let's skip to the present. If you're sooooo tuned into the county, and the county's numbers and documentation are to be considered "the bible" ... and if you believe Tri-W to be a viable option, if not THE most viable option, all things considered, then certainly you must be aware that Tri-W will NOT be the site of the Los Osos Wastewater Project?

You do know this, don't you?

If you do know this, and you surely MUST, being such a chocolate face for the county, then why the hell do you keep talking about it as if it's not???

Do tell.

Anonymous said...

that, is, not known by you.

Anonymous said...

Crapkiller,

Still waiting to hear back from you on this:


I've been out of town and just catching up on the blogs. You said a couple things that I don't understand at all and would love an explanation.

Crapkiller says:
"Tri-W was funded by a low interest loan to be paid back by user fees..."

User fees for what? If there's not a sewer in place and no pipes or a working wastewater system -- what's to use?? Besides that, how can you have $50,000. or $60,000. or higher in user fees?

Then Crapkiller says:
"There is an exception in the 218 law that makes this possible..."

You are right about that Crapkiller. There is an exemption for sewer. But I believe the exception for a sewer is just that, not a sewer that doesn't exist yet!

BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POINTING OUT THE FACT THAT ONCE THIS COUNTY'S 218 WERE TO BE PASSED THAT ANY ADDED COSTS AND CHARGES NEED NO 218 VOTE, JUST ADD THEM TO OUR BILL.
THE COUNTY'S 218 IS A BLANK CHECK, AN OPEN-ENDED MONEY PIT.

Then Crapkillers says:
"These potential fines and Cdos made the loan secure, but not secured by property."

Fines secured the loan? CDO's secured the loan? Well, that's a good one...haven't heard that before. Are you telling me that the State Water Board is supposed to do business this way? I THINK NOT!

Lastly Crapkillers says:
"Other communities can get a low interest loan for a sewer system or upgrades based upon user fees."

I don't know who you are talking to about this, but I've spoken to the State Water Board about this and they definitely need more than user fees. Where do YOU get your info, Crapkiller?

Anonymous said...

No one asked anyone to pay a user fee prior to hooking up did they?

Anonymous said...

To 8:34,

You can not secure an SRF loan with user fees. I've spoken to the state water board about this and it's on record. Besides, user fees can't add up to $200-$300 a month, and there would have had to be then user fees, on top of user fees. What is that?

Anonymous said...

I just viewed the Town Hall Meeting and could not believe how Bruce Gibson sorted through the cards with questions from the public. It was very controlled. Paavo also seemed nervous with that part of the show since it wasn't scripted like the rest of the presentation. The full questions were not answered -- just bits and pieces and mixed together at that (rather than let the person ask the questions themselves, Bruce picked out pieces and combined questions from other cards.)

It's a sham.

Also, Paavo did point out that there will be other costs. This 218 is just the beginning.

He also stated that a "yes" on the 218 was for the county to do the project. Wow, doesn't he know the 218 is about asking the taxpayer if they want to be assessed for a specific amount of money and the benefit?

Definitely a sham!

People in Los Osos don't have a clue what they're in for!

Anonymous said...

People in Los Osos don't have a clue what they're in for!

Sure we do. After 30 years of delay, lies, deceit, false starts, litigation, recall, and money wasted, we'll be finally on our way to a project we can all live with. Except you dumbshit. You'll be gone hopefully to rent in another town (where maybe they'll let you crap in your backyard or maybe even your living room) and Los Osos will be rid of another ignorant dumbshit obstructionist.

Anonymous said...

Right on the nose!

The obstructionists seem to be overlooking the rights of property owners. There is a major political backlash starting that the vocal activists will not like! They ran over the property owners rights once, but not this time!!!

Anonymous said...

People in Los Osos don't have a clue what they're in for!

AND THEY DON'T -- THE LIEN ON OUR HOMES IS LOOKING MORE AND MORE LIKE IT COULD GO TO $100,000. WHEN THE COUNTY IS DONE WITH US.

CAN'T THE COUNTY TAKE YOUR HOME WITH DELINQUENT LIENS AFTER FIVE YEARS?

Anyone know?

Shark Inlet said...

Okay, two things ....

First, I'm not named Gary. Heck, I wouldn't recognize him if I saw him at Miners.

Second, you presume both that I prefer TriW and that the County will pick another spot and you are wrong on at least one count ... maybe two. I want the County to pick the option that is best and most reasonably priced and if another site is best, I'll support that 100%.

It seems that because of the history of the LOCSD we tend to fall into TriW, good or bad rather quickly.

What I have a big argument with is those who tell us without evidence (or worse, in the fact of evidence to the contrary) that somewhere else will be less expensive. Just show it!

Churadogs said...

Anonymous sez:"Golly gee whiz....didn't you blog in the past that the Ripley Plan and Step/Stag would be waaaaaay cheaper than Tri-W?"

Nope. The Ripley Report pegged costs about about $154 a month. Tri-W was pegged at $205 before construction. What I said repeatedly is the old CSD repeatedly told this community that any site out of town would be WAAAAYYYYY more expensive so it wasn't worth even looking into it. When I inquired further, both Buel and the staff report of the CC stated One Million CHEAPER or 5-6 million MORE -- a number that I repeatedly have said was so close in the ball park (on a $150 million project) that that choice should have gone to the voters since the difference over a 20 year loan would have been chump change.

The second point I have repeatedly made is apparently folks wanted a say in where their sewer was located. They didn't want a sewer plant in the middle of town. Now, they'll be offered a choice. Oddly enough, we're at the place where I repeatedly said we should be: A Chinese Menu with a vote.

Anonymous sez:"Also, Paavo did point out that there will be other costs. This 218 is just the beginning."

Actually, Paavo's repeatedly said that there will be service fees, like your water bill, on top of the basic assessment fees, which will be probably on your tax bill, as they are now. In other words, the 218 vote will be a vote for a maximum amount (the top cost of the top project on the list) If the costs are less, if the BOS picks a cheaper system, etc. the monthly/yearly amount will be lower. However, that's only to build the plant. The costs of running it -- energy, hauling, salaries, improvements,e tc. -- will all show up on a monthly bill, like your water bill. That will continue to go up as the years go by. The assessment guy is putting together various numbers showing payment possibilities from years 1-5, 6=10 etc. as the loan pays down. User fees are anybody's guess. Also, water fees for everyone will also likely go up because the only way to get the basin into balance for buildout will be for all the water purveyors to help with the costs of "clean water." (BTW, the $205 for Tri-W was a starter number. Tri-W user fees & etc would also escalate. The $205 has been used as some sort of holy grail. It isn't. It's a guestimate and a starting point, same as the numbers that will be coming from the county.)

Inlet sez:"What I have a big argument with is those who tell us without evidence (or worse, in the fact of evidence to the contrary) that somewhere else will be less expensive. Just show it!"

The fine screening report has some rough numbers given for the various alternatives. The County has now promised to give the TAC the Tri-W numbers so they can plug them into their calculations. Right now, roughly, are any of the alternative systems mentioned "cheaper" than what we're pretending Tri-W will cost? Are all of them more expensive than the "pretend" Tri-W number?

Anonymous said...

crapkiller sez:
We have land, permits, and design already and we spent 26 mil on it. Who is going to pay the property owners back if we use an entirely different system at a different site."

Maybe you should ask Stan & Co. They are the ones who pissed it away on their friends.

4crapkiller said...

Anon, 7:09 states:

"Maybe you should ask Stan & Co. They are the ones who pissed it away on their friends."

Well I am absolutely shocked that you would want to pay double taxes.
This was a serious question involving money to be payed by property owners. We are paying taxes on this assessment now!

You must be some sort of renter who could care less about property taxes.

Are you ready to move? You will not be missed.

So we have the former assesment for the sewer. Now we will have another one on top of it. And then we will have a third to bail out the insolvent Locsd. If the system put into effect by the county does not take care of our water needs, we will have a fourth for state water pipeline and water treatment facility to treat the raw water.

Lastly, you make a totally unfounded accusation with no proof. You might take a hard look at the spending of the recall board that put us into insolvency.

Anonymous said...

There are a couple of "Dreamer" bloggers here that call anyone who doesn't support Tri-W/gravity, "Orenco Boy" or "obstructionist" or wishes strokes on people (who only want a sustainable affordable project, and try to throw out some facts and truth.) BTW, many times it's said here first on this blog before the same words actually come out of Paavo's mouth!

They also say "Conspiracy Boy" accuses them of all working for the county.

There is a blogger who has now admitted she does work for the county (probably in the Assessor's office) and the county probably is paying at least one person to monitor discussion boards.

My concern is this: The county had instructed all employess (well over a year ago) NOT to discuss the Los Osos sewer issue at all. So, why then is at least this one county employee promoting the big sewer at Tri-W all the time?

Again, it is against the law for the county to endorse and sell us a yes on the 218.

Anonymous said...

Ann,

You keep using the word "vote" (A Chinese Menu with a vote") when it's a survey and it will come long after the 218 vote for funding "the big portion of the sewer project."

This project can easily run $30 million over (Paavo mentioned that months ago.)

This is a blank check Ann, and this 218 vote is only gives permission for the county to do what they damn well please and we won't be able to do anything about ANY decision they make after that point. We know the BOS wants developers happy. They'll import water too, and that's a given. How much is that again? $1100, $1200. per home a year? Probably more!

I really don't understand how you can believe the bull from the county, especially after the Town Hall meeting.

Anonymous said...

"So, why then is at least this one county employee promoting the big sewer at Tri-W all the time/"

Well Conspiracy Boy, that should be obvious. Because she works for the large network of government employees who blog here each and every day to make sure Los Osos is buried as a community so it can be taken over and turned into the Atlantic City of the West. You haven't heard about this? Big, big BIG conspiracy involving people from the lowest forms of local government to the White House and even the Haugue. And you Exposed it!!!!!! Thank you Conspiracy Boy. You are AMAZING!!!!

And before you get all sanctimonious about someone wishing you a stroke, remember these words you wrote:

"Take every single Dreamer and Taxpayers Watch member on a bus ride to Mexico, dig some shallow graves, and tell them to get on their knees and pray that God will forgive them in the end."

And lastly, have you answered any of the questions asked of you here yet? And did you attend the meeting Tuesday to voice your concerns to Paavo and the county?

Didn't think so. Dumbshit obstructionist.

Anonymous said...

:-)

Anonymous said...

anon 10:06 said:
"This is a blank check Ann, and this 218 vote is only gives permission for the county to do what they damn well please and we won't be able to do anything about ANY decision they make after that point. We know the BOS wants developers happy"

Let's plug Orenco into this! Now the quote would read,
"This is a blank check Ann, and this no on the 218 vote is only gives permission for the Orenco to do what they damn well please and we won't be able to do anything about ANY decision they make after that point. We know that Orenco wants their investors happy."

Now do you get it obstructionist?

Me? I much prefer the County.

Anonymous said...

I hate this town. It is built on lies from all levels of government, starting with the lie of the PZ and memorandum of understanding that allowed me to think that I was buying a home with a "BUILDING MORITORIUM". The RWQCB, the county, all those CSDs. and even individual citizens are so busy covering their butts and spinning their lies..... I am collateral damage. I guess I chalk it up to experience and move on. My home is now worthless. I started with nothing and now I leave with nothing. The Los Osos I thought I knew and loved is gone. But the people who caused this mess don't care....I am just collateral damage

Anonymous said...

To Anon above,

Everything was built on lies. You are right.

However, I don't think that the county or RWQCB should get away with what they've done to us. I've heard there may be a class action lawsuit coming. Stay tuned...

Why should we lose our life savings because nothing was disclosed other than a "Building Moritorium" -- The realtors should pay, the county should pay, and the RWQCB should pay. Afterall, the county could take our homes from us with unpaid liens in less than five years. It's a win-win for the county and a lose-lose for PZ homeowners.

The people outside the phoney PZ don't have any stress (now including Julie Tacker, Jeff Edwards, Richard LeGros.) They've been protected -- how nice of the county and RWQCB to take care of them! How many RWQCB employees live in Cabrillo Estates. Anyone know?

I will take my chances with the fines and will vote no on the 218 because the RWQCB has to prove MY house is polluting before they can fine me. They have been trying to force Tri-W and I'm sure will continue to do so. And who will the county BOS side with? Us or the RWQCB/Blakeslee/Dreamers? It won't be us.

No matter what system would be picked -- any that they've offered are too expensive -- just look at the numbers on the fine screening -- and that's ONLY THE BEGINNING!

Anonymous said...

Just move. Thank the wonderful folks that brought this on our communty, Lisa, Julie, Chuck, Steve, John, Al, Keith, Gail, Joey, and the cast of dwarfs and trolls and then pack up and quit bitchin'

Anonymous said...

To: 4:52, 6:54, etc. etc. (we know it's all crapkiller's rants)

YOU LOVE TO SPIN YOUR LIES CRAPKILLER. YOU ARE ONE SICK PUPPY.

HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF? GO BACK AND WATCH SOME FOX NEWS! BUSH AND HIS CRONIES HAVE TAUGHT YOU WELL! ...HOW TO SPEND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF TAXPAYERS' MONEY FOR A DIASTER!

Anonymous said...

Bush had nothing to do with how this CSD bankrupted the District!

How do you live with yourself for being so angry all the time?

Anonymous said...

D. Review of Piranha System at Fire Station 15

ACTION REQUESTED: Authorize Staff to Contact Vendor To Remove Unit


Could some one explain what data was obtained? Was any data obtained?

Anonymous said...

Now this is the truth:

"This is a blank check Ann, and this 218 vote is only gives permission for the county to do what they damn well please and we won't be able to do anything about ANY decision they make after that point. We know the BOS wants developers happy"

...if it wasn't a fix, then why not have the advisory survey now? since now it's only a survey! Why is the county doing it after the 218? Hmmmm.

There is only one reason. The county doesn't want to voters to decide, they want to decide what's best and what we will have to pay (even if it's $500 a month and imported water!)

Anyone who trusts the county after what they've done (and haven't done) to Los Osos needs brain surgery!

WE ALL HAVE TO VOTE NO ON THE 218.

Anonymous said...

To 7:05 who said, " Bush had nothing to do with how this CSD bankrupted the District!

I say: too bad you can't read. That wasn't the point, but you have to distort because that's ALL YOU HAVE. YOU HAVE NO TRUTH. ALL YOU CAN DO IS CALL NAMES, LABEL, CURSE AND RANT.

How do you live with yourself for being so angry all the time?

I say: it's good vs evil -- and you ain't the good one!

John P.

Anonymous said...

You like to ruin Ann's site, just like you like to ruin Los Osos (putting an ugly smelly sewer in the heart of town and forcing working families and seniors out.)

You like to ruin. Ruin is your favorite new word. It's very clear by what you just did. That's what Taxpayers Watch does.

THIS SAYS WHO YOU ARE AND WHY WE SHOULD VOTE NO -- AGAINST YOU AND TAXPAYERS WATCH!

Why don't you go back to your lame friends back at the Trib site?!

Anonymous said...

Well John, sorry you are so sick, but you have proven yourself an angry person with no rational answers to any questions presented.

One day you will wake up and find a very well operating WWTF on the Bakersfield site with $10/month sewer bills. Water will be free.

Property values will have returned and increased to where a 1200 sq ft house will command $1,000,000 and only be on the market less than 5 days.

That is what you want to hear isn't it?

Anonymous said...

It's a little sad to see a Dreamer resurrect John Perkins from the grave just so they can defile his likeness with political motives. Then again, the Dreamers are known necrophiliacs. For example, there's Tri-W.

Anonymous said...

Clearly crapkiller is nuts.

Anonymous said...

So what really happened at last night's CSD love fest?