MISC Notices & Press Releases
Fundraiser Supports community targeted for water board enforcement
“Support your Neighbors” BBQ on Aug. 19
A drive-through chicken barbecue on Sunday, Aug. 19 is a community fundraiser for all property owners sent notices of Violation in May, and those randomly selected by the water board for enforcement.
All proceeds from the “Support Your Neighbors” event will benefit the Prohibition Zone Legal Defense Fund (PZLDF) enforcement appeal filed May 25th.
Chicken dinners are $10. Tickets are on sale now for the “Take Out” barbecue, which will be held between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m. at the South Bay Community Center, 2180 Palisades Ave. Call 534-1913
Individual’s homes and businesses still face a significant threat of enforcement based on the water board issuance of individual Cease and Desist Orders as recently as May 10, 200, and threats of further enforcement action against the rest of the community pending the outcome of the 218 vote. “The enforcement threat looms for the rest of the community as large as ever, according to Chris Allebe, and like those of us with the misfortune of being arbitrarily selected; it’s a real and ever-present part of our lives and does not go away.”
The event is organized through Citizens for Clean Water. The group, which spearheads the legal defense fund, is dedicated to clean water, regulatory compliance, and protection of property rights.
For those unable to attend the event, donations to the legal defense fund may be dropped off at Coast National Bank or mailed to PO Box 6095, Los Osos CA 93412. Checks may be made payable to PZLDF. Or donate online at www.pzldf.org.
For more information, call 534-1913.
# # #
ALSO
There'll be the regular TAC meeting, Monday July 30, 7 – 9:30 pm. in Los Osos Community Center.
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Calhoun's Can(n)ons was originally published in 1990 in the (now defunct) Morro Bay, CA, Sun Bulletin, and since 1992 has continued in the various resurrections of the Los Osos, CA. Bay News, Bay Breeze, Bay News, Bay News-Tolosa Press. A few years ago, the Can(n)on was added to the Central Coast NewsMission blogsite. Ann Calhoun lives in Los Osos. You can email her at Churadogs at gmail dot com
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122 comments:
No offense to anyone is intended by the following comment but ....
"Support your neighbors" may be quite different than "support your neighbors when they follow Gail and Shaunna's leading as they fight the RWQCB."
If a neighbor has had massive damage in their home ... say from a drunk teenager having driven their beater pickup into the home near the kitchen and garage ... there a variety of strategies to deal with the problem. Some are wiser than others. Does one tackle the structural stability issue first or the re-grouting of the buckled tiles first?
I am not a lawyer so can't really comment on the wisdom of Sullivan's legal strategy, but when you consider that Gail has supported the recall, the stopping of TriW and has acted as an adviser of sorts to LOCSD boardmembers I would have to question the wisdom of following any strategy devised even in part by her.
That being said, some would argue that delivering a casserole to a CDO recipient would be more beneficial.
My question really is this ... where does Rob Shipe stand? Does he have any current association with PZLDF? He seems pretty open to listening to various ideas and pretty thoughtful overall. Does he support the PZLDF approach?
If people would like to support this cause, I see nothing wrong with it. It is their money, and they have the right to spend it as they wish.
It is the same as "The Rock". If the Ochs wish to spend their money let them.
Whether the McPherson cause or The Rock information is worthwhile to contribute to depends on the viewpoint and perception of the reader/supporter. Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.
However, I would urge everyone to vote for the 218 assesment. If the 218 vote passes, the CDO challange will become moot.
The chances of a legal attack on CDOs succeeding will depend upon a tremendous amount of money in absence of a pro bono attorney, and strong legal precedent.
If the 218 vote fails and you are looking at a $900 a month discharge permit, this may be the only course of action. You may have to spend 10 percent of the value of your property to get a resolution to the legal questions. You may not prevail.
It would seem to me that the wisest course of action would be to assess oneself, build the sewer, ANY SEWER, and get the discharge permit off our backs, and then sue for any reason deemed suitable.
With 20/20 hindsight, I support Sharky's statement "but when you consider that Gail has supported the recall, the stopping of TriW and has acted as an adviser of sorts to LOCSD boardmembers I would have to question the wisdom of following any strategy devised even in part by her."
It is clear that if enough property owners support her and feel that CDOs can be defeated and a YES 218 vote is not necessary, we will be STUCK with her course of action.
"What is in your wallet?"
I only know of ONE person in Los Osos that has actually succeedded in getting a sewer project approved, financed, permitted, built, and operating...
And her name is Gail McPherson.
It's easy to sit behind your anonomous names and throw insults and accusations... but I choose to give creedance to someone that has actually built a project before... what have you done?
Steve:
You said, "I only know of ONE person in Los Osos that has actually succeedded in getting a sewer project approved, financed, permitted, built, and operating...
And her name is Gail McPherson.
Can you tell us what sewer project that she's done? I haven't heard that one before. And can you tell me why she isn't doing it anymore?
Richard,
You built a sewer? Where is it? I haven't seen it. Don't be shy, let us know where we can find it.
TownKiller,
"What is in your wallet?"
What most poor people don't understand is just how stupid you rich people really are.
If the 218 vote fails and you are looking at a $900 a month discharge permit...
Reality check: There is NO $900 discharge permit and there will NEVER be one. If this phoney fear fantasy of yours is your main argument for voting "yes" on the 218, then pull up your jockstrap for the big "No" the community is going to lay on you and your county cronies for screwing the town, TownKiller.
"It would seem to me that the wisest course of action would be to assess oneself, build the sewer, ANY SEWER, and get the discharge permit off our backs, and then sue..."
Wise for WHO to assess oneself, you selfish, bloated fool? Here you go again, the personification of the stupid rich person. We poor people can't afford stupid rich jerks like you. We have no margin for error and you are just too plain dangerous for the community at large. I'm amazed how fast you morons run to sign up to pay $500 to $600 a month after assessments and total costs. That's why no one who doesn't live on "Gilligan's Island" should EVER listen to you about ANYTHING except, of course, porno and wearing women's clothes, like Richard.
Legros' answer to CB's "Did you build a sewer?":
Yep, I did! If you haven't seen it it is because the planless ones killed it...GFY & Regards, Richard."
Keep this one fact firmly in mind as you stumble into the future, Richard: You did it to yourself.
LMA & Regards,
KMH
P.S. Your sewer WAS built ... IN YOUR DREAMS!!!
To conspiricy boy:
Yep, there are actually pipes in the ground. Not many. If we get a step/steg system, it will be easy to slide the little pipes through the big pipes. Too bad there is some sort of stupid regulation requiring separation between "purple pipes", "water pipes", and "small sewerage pipes". How about "gas pipes"?
Nice to get all electrical and cable underground also! Please correct me if I am wrong! Just thinking of possible consequences.
Would it make sense to "big pipe" the whole area and use the "big pipes" as conduit? Who knows?
To Steve: Please document your claim that McPherson has actually been in the process of building a sewer rather than just managing one.
Sorry CK, It doesn't work that way (using sewer or any handy pipe as a conduit) . But you are correct as to the clearance requirements for the various infrastructure components underground. It seems domestic drinking water and domestic and storm waste water, gas and electric don't seem to mix very well. It doesn't much matter whether it's called big pipe or little pipe and/or purple pipe, they all go to the bottom of the trench. That's what's been found to be the safest and most effective by all the utility companies in the US and Canada for many years, but then maybe Los Osos has some better method? or are underground construction laws another conspiracy?
I'd like to know why Gail & Co - PZLDF - if you ask me - doesn't throw all that time and energy into pushing to pass the 218?
Pass the 218 - problem gone!
it's gotta be easier and cheaper than spending perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars and years fighting the Water Board.
If she really wanted clean water she'd want to stem the million gallons DAILY of nasty stuff going into the ground - and do it as quickly as possible. Seems to me, passing the 218 is the fastest was to get there.
BUT maybe she has some other plan behind the scenes with Pio - so until she can get that going, (with "trash the 218 tactics" at the 11th hour, perhaps?), she needs the protection of a lawsuit against the WB?
She was pretty critical of the TAC tonight at public comment. Not exactly supportive of the huge amount of work they do for the community's benefit.
shark, (where does Rob Shipe stand? Does he have any current association with PZLDF? He seems pretty open to listening to various ideas and pretty thoughtful overall. Does he support the PZLDF approach?)
The gossip mills say he broke off with Gail and signed the Water Board agreement. Maybe he will come back to the blogs and clarify this.
Richard, your snotty and snide comments on here are seriously jeopardizing your ability to run for public office again in the future... once again you are your own worst enemy!
Okay,
This is mostly for Mike Green who's been asking ... probably because I raised the issue.
I talked with someone in Monarch Grove yesterday who had talked with someone from the County. The County doesn't intend to include Monarch Grove (or the Martin Tract or Bayview Heights) in the 218 vote. Because these three regions are part of a "PZ exception" area they would get no "special benefit" from the sewer so essentially don't get a vote. However, for Monarch Grove anyways, they'll have the option to tie into the County system ... assuming the 218 vote passes and that they want to tie in and pay their fair share (because they already have sewer lines to every home, they would pay about what Vista de Oro and Bayridge would be paying to tie their community septic systems into the sewer).
Sounds like good news to me...
To Steve:
I am still waiting for the documentation about the sewer that McPherson built.
Richard, KMH has never held political office, been thrown out of office, and doesnt have aspirations to again run for political office or seek appointment to a government position...
The fact that all those thinks are true about you is laughable to me... in fact everytime I hear your name, or see your face I cant help but laugh a little.
To All:
Seems like the Tribune web site servers are down and have been so for a couple of days. Perhaps they will be going to a subscription system. Is this a possible death rattle?
Steve wrote:
"Richard, your snotty and snide comments on here are seriously jeopardizing your ability to run for public office again in the future."
I'm not so sure about that.
If you ask me, the fact that he voted with Stan and Gordon to put the recall election at one of the latest possible dates and then used the extra month that decision afforded them to begin pounding millions of state taxpayers' money into a $170 million park-project-that-included-a-sewer-plant-in-the-middle-of-town -- a project that required an overridden EIR and "bait and switchy" to get approved -- pretty much jeopardized his ability to run for public office again in the future... if you ask me.
Richard wrote:
"... irresponsible behavior..."
Perfectly put.
1 mo' thing...
Richard wrote:
"... your selfish refusal to accept your responsibility as a citizen of Los Osos to end your contribution to the pollution of the State's water..."
That reminds me, have you ordered YOUR "advanced" composting toilet system yet, Richard? The staff of the RWQCB sure would appreciate it, because they said such a system "will" clean the "State's water" that YOU are polluting... or don't you live in the PZ? Maybe you don't. I know Gordon (aka: San Luis Obispo Coastkeeper) and Pandora do. Have they ordered their's? I sure hope so, because that Gord-O-Meter on my blog is beginning to get on my nerves.
Good night, and good luck.
Sharkey, thanks! the Monarch Grove question had me a little concerned, I sure hope you are right.
Crappy, don't know (or much care) if the Triv is circling the drain, but I couldn't log on either, thought it was a browser issue, but who knows?
Richard, I take full responsibility for my part in the sewer mess, and apologize to all of Los Osos for it.
It has made me, I think, much more careful in the way I vote.
Sure wish I had paid more attention before the recall. and sure wish the recall had happened sooner, especially before the start of construction.
Hey Ron:
Where can I get an advanced composting shower, washing machine, dishwasher, and sinks. I know where I can get a composting toilet.
To Richard Legros:
I heard about the 23 retrofits required by the BOS. I need four for my rental units. That's a total of eight toilets. Do not need shower heads. Who do we talk to?
How did you get so lucky so fast?
Mike Green:
"Crappy, don't know (or much care) if the Triv is circling the drain, but I couldn't log on either, thought it was a browser issue, but who knows?"
I haven't had any problem getting on the Trib site today.
Hi Mike Green,
An apology is not required (to me or anybody else) for you voted as you felt inclined.
As for the date of the recall, whether it was held August 15 or September 28, 2005, it would have not have made a difference in terms of the dollar cost/affect of stopping the project. Why?...well the LOCSD had at that point many project contractural arrangements (some going back to 2001)that had to be honored. Of course, history has shown what happened(is happening) when said contracts are not honored.
Hi Crapkiller,
Call Jeff Edwards at 528-1567 or 459-1396 for his toilet retrofit services (at no cost to you)
Regards, Richard LeGros
Richard, The timing made a huge difference,
I believe that you would have won that election if you hadn't given the opposition the extra ammo and time.
The results of those first two elections, which I wish I could take my votes back, failed Los Osos miserably.
I made the wrong decisions, and for that I apologize to Los Osos.
I am trying to make amends.
(sheesh, I might want to get elected someday!)
fed up, can you get to the discussion boards?
Richard, I dont need to look close at my words, I do not have political aspirations like you do...
And maybe you should look at your words closely to see who's playing the victim.
Mike Green:
Yes - I've been able to read, though haven't tried to post.
The activity level has been low, but I've been able to access the boards.
fed up, thanks, what browser? I'm using Safari, maybe there's a bug.
Mike Green... Safari..??? is that on a Real Computer...or an Apple? :-)
Mike Green:
I use Explorer.
Sewertoons:
Give us a break!
You say, "She (Gail) was pretty critical of the TAC tonight at public comment. Not exactly supportive of the huge amount of work they do for the community's benefit."
The county's TAC is working to make sure the MWH gravity plan will be picked. That's the huge amount of work they've done! They'll benefit from all the hard (biased) work they've done. They aren't doing it for the good of the community. If they were on the up 'n up they'd look at alternatives and fairly evaluate. But no, each TAC meeting shows more and more the exact direction they're taking us -- gravity, unaffordability, and Montgomery/Watson/Harza.
Look at who's on the TAC. Marie sits there because Gordon and Richard LeGros can't. Marshall was in on the Tri-W purchase. Dan Berman works for an organization funded by the EPA/State Water Board and is a conflict of interest. John Fouche works for the state - conflict of interest. Rob Miller - Wallace does too many projects for the county - conflict of interest. Bob Garfinkle -- Pandora/Tri-W supporter - conflict of interest. Bob - Pandora/Tri-W supporter - conflict of interest. Russell is Gravity/Pandora supporter - conflict.
If the county were on the up n' up, they'd have the advisory survey first, before the 218, and only have the PZ homeowners vote because they have to pay for the entire project. The fix is clearly in.
Why is TAC working so hard? Because the only way that the State Water Board can recoup their $6.5 million is to put in the Montgomery Watson Harza design! The state tells the county what to do.
Who do you think that the county is going to listen to? The people in the PZ who are going to lose their homes, or the state? You know the answer to that as well as I do.
The county conveniently selected a company that ONLY does gravity, Carollo, and could not possibly give a fair evaluation to step. The county conveniently selected TAC members that supported the MWH system. The county conveniently confused the 218 and how it's being done.
Don't treat us like idiots Sewertoons. I'm personally getting a little tired of it.
Like Dr. Alexander stated, "Hook the suckers before they hear the truth." YOU endorse that.
Thanks Sewertoons, so nice of you to throw us to the wolves so (1) you can profit, (2) or is it just rid the town of everyone you don't like here (3) or is it that you're out of the phoney PZ and you're off the hook?
VOTE NO ON THE 218 - it's the only way to have an affordable project. A yes vote only guarantees MWH gravity. Only an idiot would vote for a blank check to tax themselves out of their homes.
mike, safari is available for windoze too.
Yea, I got fed up after decades of PC hell and went over to the side of the force.. Of course its an intel unit duo core and I can run any OS I want.
Guess I'll try with firefox.
To Richard LeGros:
Thanks for saying "Go F**K YOURSELF" (GFY) on your recent post to me WHEN I ONLY ASK WHERE THE SEWER YOU BUILT WAS!
What a guy you are Richard! How much is your kickback? How much do you plan on getting when people have to move, their homes torn down, and you get to design?
Tell us Richard. Tell us about the dollar signs in your eyes.
Mike Green:
Do you live in Monarch Grove?
Is that why you don't mind at all if the project is Tri-W gravity (in or out of town)?
That would explain a lot.
Hi Mike Green,
You and I can speculate all we want over "what ifs"....but the past is what is is...unchangeable.
I appreciate your angst over your vote on the recall. To be honest, I find your comments comforting.
Hi Steve,
Regardless, do as you wish. Also, you asssume much about what I am about.
Regards, Richard LeGros
Conspiracy Boy,
GFY = GOOD FOR YOU in texting lingo.
GFKYS means what you blogged.
Regards, Richard LeGros
Sure Richard.
You know CB, you are so paranoid that you just can't see the good in anyone or anything. You are probably correct though, everyone is out to get you personally! You are going to be a real wreck when 218 passes inspite of your campaign. Have a great evening worring about the big pipe sewer headed right up your street!
CB, No I don't live in Monarch Grove, I could walk there in about five minuets.
And no, I don't support TriW gravity anywhere unless its way cheaper than anything else.
What I can't support is your idea that the water board will somehow just fold up tent and run away from their electioneering (blatantly) threats. What did you do with the NOV? (probably exactly what I wanted to do with it)
Until I hear of a rock solid plan to avoid the costs and consequences of the CDO/CAO in2011, and by that I mean big time pro bono defense (like the ACLU)
I'm going to go with what I know by experience, namely that the Water Gods and the State have all the cards, they can change the rules at will, there is no recourse except prohibitory expensive litigation.
The Train has already wrecked, you just cant accept it, I understand, you have my sympathy
Conspiracy Boy,
You've let us know (in your 6:25pm comment) what is wrong with pretty much every single TAC member.
However, you've never let us know which TAC applicants you would have approved of. Unless you are willing to do so, please remember your argument of bias is full of crap. (No offense, intended, Crap.) If folks you approve of didn't even apply, your anger at the bias in the TAC (well, the bias you claim, anyways) should be directed only at yourself and your friends who should have applied.
So then ... who are those folks you would have approved of?
As to your last point at 6:25pm, that only a fool would vote for a blank check ... let me remind you that the 218 vote will have a maximum cost associated with it and that voting "no" has no guarantee of the maximum cost. You seem to keep saying that Orenco will come in and save us, but your wishful thinking is not very convincing. Perhaps if Orenco demonstrates they've got a plan which will work and if they're willing to guarantee the maximum total ... then we can talk.
Mike Green ... send me an e-mail ... sharkinlet@gmail.com
Sharkey, click on my name, there is a contact if my e-mail failed
conspiracy boy: "If the county were on the up n' up, they'd have the advisory survey first, before the 218, and only have the PZ homeowners vote because they have to pay for the entire project."
Wrong again! Guess you have not heard the many times repeated here why this cannot be done.
Look. I live in the PZ. I want a project. I have my preferences, but I'll say yes to pay for something that I may not even like. I don't think I have a prayer against the Water Board and I surely don't want to try to fight. I have ZERO faith in some rumor that "Orenco will come in $100 million less." That is total BS and am not willing to risk my house on that silliness.
Richard,
Richard LeGros said: "PS: As I asked before, do you believe that a person playing the "victim" card to avoid their responsibilities is acceptable behavior?"
Steve said to Richard: "And maybe you should look at your words closely to see who's playing the victim."
Thanks, Steve. It's hilarious Richard mischaracterizes my "rich man/poor man" comments as "playing the victim card." I ain't no victim! I do think, however that you're talking about yourself, Richard. It is you who plays the victim of the no-plan, election-stealing CSD, rather than admitting you are where you are and you are what you are because YOU DID IT TO YOURSELF.
The blogging audience blogging here unaware should understand that Richard Legros is "The Biggest Liar In Town" -- bar none, and that when they read anything Legros blogs they are reading the bloggings of a man alone on his computer under house arrest for life.
KMH
KMH Said: "...under house arrest for life"
KMH must have some serious experience in being in house arrest, actually is well experienced in being arrested and sentenced to jail time! Now wants to attempting to smear Richard Legros as in other attempts at smearing other individuals within the community.
KHM is NOT trying to keep anything honest, only to perpetuate a game of slander because he disagrees. Instead of producing facts, he only makes personal attacks. Is this the kind of neighbor you want as a friend? He would stab his own mother in the back to achieve his goals!!!
KHM is a just a bald faced liar!!!
Ahhh... my customary 10:30ish time slot.
CB said:
"Look at who's on the TAC."
and then wrote:
"Bob - Pandora/Tri-W supporter"
Don't forget that former LOCSD Director Bob Semonsen was also a member of the Solution Group in 1998, along with Gordon Henslyy, Pandora Nash-Karner, Stan Gustafson, and Frank Freiler -- all former LOCSD Directors, as well.
Les Bowker, current member of the Regional Water Quality Control Board? Yep, former Solution Group member. Rose Bowker was the president of the initial LOCSD Board, and played a pivitol role in delaying the project for two years as they chased the Solution Group's ponding system around.
Paavo Ogren, leader of the TAC, was interim GM of the LOCSD in 1999, hired by the likes of Nash-Karner and Hensley.
Wanna see something else funny?
Look who some of the "supporters" are on the "Bruce Gibson for Supervisor" web site:
- Frank Freiler
- Pandora Nash-Karner
-- Leslie Bowker
- Jim Godfrey (Godfrey along with Nash-Karner, headed-up the strongly pro-Tri-W group, Save the Dream)
However, my favorite Gibson supporter isn't all of the former Solution Groupers/LOCSD Directors. No.
It's someone named, Carol Comeau, where she writes: "We were at Debby Cardinali's coffee. I watched 3 of the candidate forums on the computer. John and I believe Bruce has the best experience. We like his conservation work and his stance on the LO sewer situation. (to relook at TRI W if needed)."
Relook at TRI W?
Well, apparently, he'll definitely get that opportunity, since the Tri-W project is being "carried through" the entire screening process by Ogren's TAC.
Does anyone associated with the county have any idea what the phrase "hint of impropriety means?"
It's almost like they want the 218 vote to fail.
I'm starting to get a sinking feeling that county Auditor-Controller, Gere Sibbach, was right when he wrote:
"San Luis Obispo County has already spent approximately $6.1 million toward a wastewater project for the community of Los Osos. As a result of the vote to form the Los Osos CSD, about $4.8 million of that amount was never recovered by the County General Fund. Perhaps I am overly sensitive to this fact because I was the official that had to sign the checks. Notwithstanding my possibly jaded view, your Board must carefully consider the possibility that the Los Osos voters might choose to vote against the Prop 218 assessments required under the proposed legislation. Their vote will be difficult because the cost will be high, and because for some of them a delayed project is nearly as desirable as no project at all. Accordingly, I will not recommend that your Board accept the risk of another $2 million of General Fund monies under these circumstances."
I want to add another reason to Mr. Sibbach's list of why "their vote will be difficult" -- because elected county officials, county staff members, and former Solution Group/former LOCSD Directors huddle together in a little ball and think no one can see them. And those people are directly responsible for an unpopular, expensive, mid-town $170-million-park-project-that-includes-a-sewer-system.
In a community where the last three elections have gone against that little ball, I have to agree with Sibbach, their vote will be difficult.
(By the way, that $4.8 million that he mentions there -- that he "signed the checks for" -- that was the $4.8 million that Nash-Karner cost COUNTY taxpayers with her Solution Group marketing campaign in 1998. I talk about that in Three Blocks. County taxpayers are still waiting for their apology, and, it appears, so is Mr. Sibbach, since it made him "overly sensitive.")
Rich wrote:
"I'll suggest to them that they look into your toilets as an option for LO property owners."
First, those aren't my toilets, the composting toilets idea comes from the staff of the RWQCB. Second, that same staff has already looked into those toilets, and not only do they consider them an option for LO property owners, they considered "requiring" them in Los Osos.
Damn, I love to report. I get a Jones for it sometimes.
Ron,
Do you get a "jones" for being wrong, too?
Gordon Hensley was not a member of the Solutions Group.
Jim Godfrey was a supporter of Save the Dream, but he did not "head it up".
Only one election "went against" Tri-W. That was the recall in 2005, which passed by a measly 192 votes. Julie and Lisa were elected to the board in 2004, because only one (underqualified and untruthful) person was willing to sacrifice themselves on the Los Osos sewer alter to oppose them, thanks to Al, Steve, Keith, etc.
Julie and Lisa basically ran un-opposed.
As for the 2006 election, Steve Senet kept his seat by an eyelash, and Joe Sparks won the majority of votes. Either way, there was a "move the sewer" majority any way you looked at it - so please explain your take on the "three elections went against Tri-W" claim. I only see one.
Have a nice day, Jackass.
So Ron,
Are you saying that that
1. the TAC contains the best qualified people and they all happen to also to have supported TriW in some way
or
2. no one who was horribly opposed to TriW was deemed qualified to serve on the TAC
or
3. the selection process was biased against the folks opposed to TriW
or
4. those opposed to TriW didn't apply to be on the TAC
?
Which of the four do you believe to be the case? (Presumably more than one answer could be true in this case.)
I would toss out to you the same question I've asked Conspiracy Boy a few times ... who applied to serve on the TAC do you believe to be better qualified than those whe were selected? (And because I know you are likely to write something like "because they supported TriW they have proven themselves unqualified" and because that answer is a cop-out, let's just stipulate you gave it and I already shot it down as silly.)
In any case, your Mr. Sibbach is forgetting something very important. The only reason Los Osos is in the situation it is in today is because of some decisions by the County back in the 1970s and 1980s. Essentially the County looked the other way even though they were told that septics would not be appropriate for the density they were approving. The County owes us ... I'll claim that Los Osos is under served by the County (look at parks and roads and drainage issues before the LOCSD took over drainage) relative to the amount we put into County coffers through our property taxes.
Ron, if you're going to look to the past to point out problems, please don't think that the mistakes and culpability started in 1997.
You know what? Bottom line? If Sibbach had not signed over the last $2 mil, in my opinion we'd have the State in here building Tri-W. I've heard a lot of stuff lately. Tri-W doesn't seem to me to be so secure as a BOS choice at all, contrary to what the alarmists think. So maybe people ought to re-think their "no" vote on the 218. If the State comes in, IT WILL BE TRI-W, no questions asked, no advisory vote needed.
Ron says, "the composting toilets idea comes from the staff of the RWQCB. Second, that same staff has already looked into those toilets, and not only do they consider them an option for LO property owners, they considered "requiring" them in Los Osos."
I'd have to spend thousands to reconstruct my two tiny bathrooms to make that work. Think there will be loans or grants? Can somebody provide just the costs for smell mitigation? Could my neighbors sue me? Our houses are just feet apart, and my bathrooms directly across from their bedroom and dining room.
Ron:
Now how can you blame Democrats for supporting Gibson? Maybe we should recall him and put in Anderson (my choice). However, I have seen nothing wrong with Gibson's actions. He is a socialist, and to get a sewer into LOS OSOS will take a socialist.
Crap,
The reason Ron sees a conspiracy here is that he thinks that every issue boils down to some sort of coven of folks who meet at Pandora's house who intend on controlling everything in Los Osos and because they have magical powers, everyone in the County government and in the State government obeys their every wish.
Frankly I am surprised that Ron has sunk this deep into his own confusion. Democrats supporting Democrats? That just proves Ron is right about.
Pandora was also seen on the zapruder film pulling out a handgun ... oh yeah ... the moon landing was also staged by NASA on the sandspit at Pandora's suggestion.
Richard,
I've seen a lot of what you write to other people. When you talk about other people perpetuating hate, don't you realize that you fall under the same category as the people you continuously criticize?
Arguing against the Recall, you said that the Recall would further divide the community but your actions before and after the Recall have most certainly drawn a fine line between those who want gravity collection at Tri-W and those who don't. You never attempted to blur those lines or establish any sort of unity.
I take a look at your old SmartVoter profile from the November 2002 elections. I see your credentials:
* BS Architecture, Cal Poly, SLO, awarded 1979
* B Architecture, Cal Poly, SLO, awarded 1981
* California State License, Architect, issued 1981
* Member LOCSD Wastewater Committee since 1999
* Self-employed, practicing architecture since 1977
None of them mean anything to me or the members of the community if you're going to continue posting bigoted, psuedo-factual messages on this blog and The Tribune message boards. Here we have an elected official who is acting in a very disorderly, unprofessional manner. Here is an elected official who failed to follow through with these campaign promises:
* TO STRENGHTEN the LOCSD's finacial health; ensuring the best possible community services at the lowest cost
* TO BUILD the Wastewater Project on time and below budget; while working to reduce the finacial burden of the sewer
* TO CREATE the foundations upon which the LOCSD can provide community park and recreational programs
Here is a man who has obstructed the law, tampered with legal documentation, has committed perjury, lied about the justification for gravity collection at Tri-W, had a direct conflict of interest with Montgomery Watson-Harza, and YET he still speaks with no shame, no remorse and no conscience.
Los Osos is done with you, Richard.
Thedamntruth,
Please realize, when you criticize Richard, that there are some who would criticize, Julie, Lisa and the recall candidates just as strongly.
The problem here is that our community is divided ... and that no matter what happens, at least 30% of those who live here will have some ill-will toward those who they view as the source of the problem.
The question I have for you is this ... are you willing to forgive Richard so that you can move forward and help achieve community healing?
Sharky,
When people are elected into a government position, they are set for scrutiny so people can criticize Julie and Lisa just as much as I criticized Richard. Don't see much fault for that.
And to answer your question, while I'd love to forgive people for their missteps, I do not forgive Richard unless he comes clean and admits wrongdoing. If he does that, I'd be more than happy to tip my hat to him for it takes a lot of cahones to take accountability.
damntruth,
you said: "I do not forgive Richard unless he comes clean and admits wrongdoing."
Does the same go for Julie, Lisa and the rest of the post-recall board, who in many people's view have done the same thing you accuse Richard of?
Thedamntruth,
Are you saying that because Julie and Lisa (and Chuck, Steve and John) should have known better before they chose to put our town deep into debt .... that they shouldn't be forgiven until they step forward and apologize?
Apologizing and forgiveness ... it's an intricate dance that typically has different moves each time. I would suggest that while it is difficult to offer forgiveness, it is when we hold on to grudges that we keep ourselves and our communities from truly healing.
Because I want our town to heal and to be able to move forward, I'm choosing to view the entire past as fixed in stone and to view the players as having made the choices they viewed as best. What I want is for us all to be able to move forward and to work with even those we may have disagreed with over past issues. I see a "yes" vote on the 218 as key. As sewertoons so well pointed out ... if we vote "no" on the 218 vote, the state is likely to step in and take over and to build TriW even without providing a low interest loan. (The LOCSD is in no position to get any project off the table, even with "design build".) The RWQCB could then fine folks who don't "voluntarily" tie into the system.
In either case, to avoid further pollution, to avoid the likelihood of state water (which might not exist in some dry years) and to avoid the increased costs of delay, I advocate going with the County project, whether they want to pursue TriW or Ripley or whatever they feel best.
By the way, it's cajones.
Hi All,
When I am wrong, I apologize.
When I am right, I do not apologize.
The recent bevy of accusations recently posted about me are:
* COMPLETELY UNTRUE
* DISREAGARD ESTABLISHED FACT
* AND are obviously the mental
fabrications of an angry
person(s)who is(are) not
thinking rationally.
Regards, Richard LeGros
PS: I whole-heartedly accept full responsibilty for all of my behavior and decisions not only as a LOCSD director, but regarding all aspects of my life.
Yes, the same goes for Julie, Lisa and everyone else who has screwed up. There's no double standard, and excuse me, but you're going off-topic, Sharky.
And Richard,
I may be thinking irrationally, maybe, but what about the law? Is the law irrational? I think not.
damntruth:
What laws, specifically, did Richard (and the other board members) break?
For every claim that states the old board broke a law, it can be proven that they didn't. You may disagree with their interpretation of the law, but that doesn't mean they broke it. They've been accused many times and have been investigated by the D.A. and the Grand Jury. Why haven't any of them gone to jail? They've been out of office for nearly two years now - what's the hold up? Could it be that no laws were broken?
Hmmmmm......
Irrational?
No, you are completely around the bend and need to move somewhere where this sewer issue won't bother you!
There are apparently no laws, no individuals who measure up to your view of what the world should be.
shark said:
"The LOCSD is in no position to get any project off the table, even with "design build".
You are so, so, so right. Thank you. Your words are always respected and taken to heart.
To ALL:
What scares me is the group of wishful-thinking people that THINK that the CSD CAN do a design build with private financing. I think the CSD, sans Joe, thinks it can too. Despite bankrupting the CSD and Brown Act violations, Chuck and Steve were voted back in - and the CSD merely plays lip service to the County process. If they come in at the 11th hour and say "Vote No," I think that there is a chunk of voters, who have not been paying attention, will do just that.
I'm sorry for the strife that has turned away many formerly involved people, who are just not keeping up, or others who can't because of heavy work loads. I wish the ones who barely know we even have a CSD, let alone anything else going on in this town would wake up (- and that they are only a small percentage).
I believe that the County reads these blogs. I am imploring them to continue their job of education, to spare no expense on mailings - just make them inexpensive in appearance as they have been doing - and keep some of them them simple. Make sure every out of town homeowner who will vote, gets enough info before the ballot arrives to understand why YES is so important. We don't know what the opposers to the County, or opposers to a sewer, will be doing for their PR - but last election, they spent a ton at the 11th hour with blatant stealing of Blakeslees's photo and the County seal.
There is a movement in town, active now, getting ready for the 218 to fail, in fact encouraging it to fail. Appeasing them will not help as they don't really want a sewer, but they will keep up appearances of going in a sewer-direction to garner the most support.
I just want everyone who owns a house in the PZ to be alert. The 218 YES is vital to keeping the equity you have in your house. Try selling a house with a CDO. Now what would that look like to a prospective buyer? A lot less worse than a sewer lien.
SharkInlet asked: "I've asked Conspiracy Boy a few times ... who applied to serve on the TAC do you believe to be better qualified than those whe were selected?"
Oh, can we start with Dr. Reuhr, Dr. Alexander, Judge Goldin? I'll start there.
Oh Boy! The bloggers and TAC members that pretended to be fair are showing their colors more everyday. It's fun to watch the big lie anyway.
Sewertoons:
I'll ask you what I've asked Crapkiller and never got an answer, who or what arm of the state can take over the sewer project?
I don't believe that any agency can - the DWR does dams - not sewers. So, please back up with some real facts.
Maybe Richard LeGros wants to weigh in on this one.
To me, after watching the "county dance" it looks like it will be gravity out of town and probably a regional plant to help Morro Bay.
Oh Boy. Let's all in the PZ pay for Morro Bay's shit. Let's bring it all to Los Osos. I guess the "Dreamers" won't mind that because they didn't mind a shit factory in the heart of town.
SharkInlet says: "The reason Ron sees a conspiracy here is that he thinks that every issue boils down to some sort of coven of folks who meet at Pandora's house who intend on controlling everything in Los Osos and because they have magical powers, everyone in the County government and in the State government obeys their every wish."
Well, everyone has met at Pandora's house. Remember Bruce Gibson and Rodger Anderson meeting there? Tell me some other (Los Osos) homes where both came.
Pandora has been a major player in the "big lie" all along, right beside Roger Briggs. She's the county's gal. She's no Democrat either. She's a fake Democrat. She's a piece of work. The town will never heal because of what she's done. Yeah, Pandora, keep taking those ceramics classes to give you some peace -- in fact, you better double up on those classes.
Your getting right to the heart of the local conspiracy. You have made believers out of all who read your opinions.
One minor little thing, what will you o if 218 miraculously passes?
Sewertoons, I feel your pain. Your last post was right on target, and in my humble opinion exactly the way this thing will play out down the line. Tacker/Schicker/Cesina and their renter cohorts will no doubt wage a nasty "no on 218" battle, trying to prey on the uninformed, the uninterested, and the scared, just as they did with the recall. They will once again make all sorts of wild, empty promises based on pie in the sky and cargo, and will do all they can to confuse, obfuscate and muddy the waters to delay and obstruct the building of a sewer. I can already see the hordes loitering on the corner of LOVR and South Bay Blvd. I have no doubt it's gonna get ugly around here again. And with all due respect to Shark, the "community healing" thing just ain't ghonna happen, not for a long time at least, because no matter the outcome, it's just plain gonna be ugly around here again. I hope not, but I see it coming. Liens, fines, CDO's etc if the 218 doesn't pass, litigation, litigation, litigation from the Tacker/Swanson/Barrow Krewe. But regardless,I agree it's important for the county to continue their efforts of getting the word out to everyone about the importance of their decision, and for all of us to continue to fight the misinformation of those who have bankrupted this community and lied fererishly to obstruct the building of a sewer in Los Osos.
And to Conspiracy Boy, I'm as proud as can be!!! I gave you your name, along with the names Orenco Boy and Dumbshit Obstrucionist. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why you didn't choose Dumbshit Obstrucionist. The ridiculous stuff you write my friend....my oh my.....
CrapKiller, Mike and now (you're) Area51:
At least I can answer all at once since you're all the same person.
Anyway, if the 218 passes, I'll be forced to write that book on "Pandora" -- I've interviewed the people who know her best, including her mother. It will be a best-seller (certainly county-wide) and then I can pay for the huge sewer bill. Gotta do what I gotta do!
CrapKiller, Mike and Area51:
You say, "The ridiculous stuff you write my friend....my oh my....."
Look who's talking, at least I don't lie through my teeth.
Why don't you tell me exactly what I've said that's not true. Other than the Orenco figures because they have not been presented to me and I'm going by what they've said in the past, $50 million or so.
Go ahead, I'll be waiting. I dare you.
Are you going to make me a list? Are you going to start with that the county didn't create the very problem that we're dealing with now?
Come on, don't be shy...
Oh darn, you caught me/us, yup, only one person with 3, 4, 5, up to as many as you want to believe!
What's you theory on USO's?
"Why don't you tell me exactly what I've said that's not true."
Well, for one, saying I'm Mike or Crapkiller. Crapkiller? CB, if you knew my politics, and what I think of Crap's politics, well, let's just say I'm certainly not Crapkiller. Nor Mike. And Crap isn't Mike CP. You can do better than that. It's just too easy to accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you as being the same person.
As far as the rest of the list, it's too late for me and you've said far too many wacky, aluminum foil on the head Rod Serling things over the months to go back and show them all to you. But they're there CP, you know it, and certainly we all know it. Sleep tight. And tuck those covers real tight so the County boogie man doesn't get you.
Hi All,
All CSD boards, staff or consultants (prior to the recall) DID NOT VIOLATE ANY LOCAL, STATE OR FEDERAL LAWS. PERIOD! END OF STORY!
You good folks have yammered and falsely accused past CSD board members and staff for YEARS about imagined illegalities; YET NOT ONCE PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE TO PROVE YOUR RIDICULOUS CHARGES.
FEDUP IS CORRECT...I and others (board member and staff) have been (at the insistance of the new CSD BOARD and other community activists) been intensively and throughly investigated by the Grand Jury, the DA, the FBI, the new CSD board, staff and CSD attorney's and consultants, and no doubt private investigations by private citizen.
ALL THOSE INVESTIGATIONS ARE NOW CLOSED FOR NO ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES WERE PERFORMED! NONE, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA, THE BIG GOOSE EGG, ETC.
If the NEW CSD had FOUND ANY EVIDENCE OR LEGAL THEORY to base legal charges against past board members and staff, they would have filed lawsuits against us a long, long time ago. When the new board took over the CSD office, they turned it upside and sideways (spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process on hired guns to do so) looking for anything, ANYTHING, that was illegal....AND WHAT DID THEY FIND?....NOTHING, except that all CSD records were complete, correctly accounted for, not tampered with; and all financial accounts intact.
Regards, Richard LeGros
PS: I would like to remind you all that in the past on this blog I have listed a number of
FELONY VIOLATIONS OF STATE LAW that Julie, Chuck, Lisa, John, Steve and Blesky committed in 2006.
I provided you ON THIS BLOG with:
* The sections of the Penal and Government Codes that were violated.
* Actual CSD documentation of the acts committed, and by whom.
* A time table of when the acts occured.
* The dollar amounts of YOUR TAX DOLLARS that have been misappropriated ($1,466,000).
AND ALL YOU FINE PEOPLE DID WITH THIS INFORMATION WAS YAWN, TRIED TO AVOID THE TRUTH STARING AT YOU IN THE FACE, AND VICIOUSLY ATTACK ME.
NEVER, EVER DID ANY OF YOU PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE TO COUNTER THE INFORMATION I PROVIDED.
WE CANNOT AVOID THE EVIDENCE AGAINST THE NEW BOARD.....THE EVIDENCE THAT COMES FROM THE CSD ITSELF!
EVIDENCE SO STRONG THAT THE COUNTY OF SLO SUED THE CSD TO STRIP $1,200,000 IN YEARLY TAX AND BOND REVENUES AWAY FROM THIS BOARD...AND THE COUNTY WON!!!
THE COUNTY WON BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE WAS IRREFUTABLE; AND THE TAXPAYERS HAD TO BE PROTECTED FROM A BOARD THAT HAS MISAPPRORIATED MILLIONS!
Bonds 0 for 3 so far tonight!
CSD 0 for $1.2M
CSD 0 for another $1.4M
Fab 5 (as individuals)coming to a court in your neighborhood soon
To Area51:
I'll wait till mornin' for your list. So, you may not be the same person, we'll never know, will we? Who cares? You sound the same. All clones I guess.
I'll be waiting for the real stuff, go ahead -- not little things like names.
Oh, can you also tell me what branch of the state will take over and build the sewer?
I'm waiting for that one too! Tell me what I've been wrong about oh wise one!
conspiracy boy,
Sure, the County had culpability in this mess. Los Osos had culpability for telling the County no, we don't want your sewer, too. So what. That's history, over with and good-bye.
Do we want the problem fixed or not? We can't change history and the tool to fix this is in our hands - the 218. The County is not going to jump up and mea culpa with $150 million bucks. Get real!
As to your Orenco figures, I was in the audience in person when those figures were presented. A ballpark $50 million. FOR THE COLLECTION SYSTEM ONLY. Not enough info for me to vote no on the 218.
I've just put on my tin foil pyramid hat. now what will you do if the 218 passes?
Conspiracy Boy ...
Did Alexander and Goldin apply to be on the TAC?
I believe that the CSD Board members, by running for office and assuming their positions on the Board, have accepted a responsibility for taking actions that will be in the best interest of the community.
At this point, it is clear that the CSD has none of the resources, either human or financial, that are necessary to plan, finance, design and contract to be built a large community sewer system, as well as effectively deal with our seawater intrusion and water deficit issues. They may want to do these things, but they simply do not have the means.
Knowing that the County does have the expertise and the resources, and can get the best possible financing for this project; and also taking into consideration the emotional and financial plight that we will all be facing if the County project does not go forward;
the CSD Board, in all good conscience, must endorse the County process and work to secure the 218 vote passage.
This is their mandate as a CSD Board, and I will absolutly expect it of them. If they do not, they will have stabbed our community and everyone in it, in the back. Further, it is their one, single opportunity to make up for the sordid past, and the bancruptcy, by doing the only positive thing that they can at this point to make a real difference.
TO RICHARD LEGROS:
Don't worry Richard, you'll be in the Pandora book too, I wouldn't think of leaving you out.
BTW, where is the state audit that was promised?
Where did the money go from the time the state gave you the first installment of the loan to the days just after the recall. Has that money been accounted for?
P.S. We all know about your cozy relationship with county, Blakeslee, the DA, Pandora, etc. - so I wouldn't expect them to do any hard investigation or they would all be exposed too.
Richard, there is no law against stupidity (thank Dog or we all would be in jail)
Perhaps wisdom is seeing the whole problem and admitting ones weaknesses due to ignorance.
Yelling does not help.
I think I understand your frustration, you have my sympathy.
Got some ground to cover.
Fed Up,
In 2005, Steve Sawyer and Lisa Schicker went to the DA in hopes of conducting an investigation of the Recalled board. Ultimately the DA decided not to press charges; not because there was insufficient evidence but there was a conflict of interest. Pandora Nash-Karner is "good friends" with Gerald T. Shea and Stephen F. Brown.
I also cannot comment on specific information because there is an actual investigation going on. Legally I cannot disclose evidence to the public, but I will say that there are probable cause(s) for this investigation.
And Richard, every time you make a comment denying your involvement, you are hereby officiating your statements by putting them in writing and they can be used against you in court. Because you spout a lot of bullshit on these blogs and message boards, you keep giving the authorities more and more ammo. I say: keep it up.
For every lie you make, it adds another year to your stay in prison.
Los Osos is done with you, Richard.
Sewertoons:
Talk about history -- what's history is the PZ. What a phoney piece of bull. That's over. The 218 trumps the PZ. You get real!
SharkInlet:
Yes, Dr. Alexander, Dr. Reuhr, and Judge Goldin did apply!
Dr. Alexander, Dr. Reuhr, and Judge Goldin - three perfect examples of closed minds in my opinion.
conspiracy boy - It doesn't matter if you or I get real. The Regional Water Quality Control Board will get VERY real if the 218 does not pass.
Inlet sez:"The question I have for you is this ... are you willing to forgive Richard so that you can move forward and help achieve community healing?"
"Forgiving" Richard and "moving forward" and "community healing" are not mutually inclusive items. One can easily forego the former while still doing the latter.
Inlet also sez:""Support your neighbors" may be quite different than "support your neighbors when they follow Gail and Shaunna's leading as they fight the RWQCB."
If you read the brief Shauna filed, you'd see that it's not about "fighting the RWQCB," but what she's going to a "real" court on is proceedural legal, constitutional matters, something whose outcome effects every homeowner in the PZ. The RWQCB has stated they intend to issue a CAO to every home (unless the 218 passes) so the question Shauna (and some of your neighbors, who already have CDOs/CAOs on their homes, part of the The Los Osos 45, people who you obviously don't give a damn about)will be going to bat to make sure what the RWQCB has in mind for YOU is actually legal in a "real" court of law. That's why I hope this community -- including you -- will support their efforts on your behalf. Instead, they get kneecapped? Insult to injury? What's all that about?
Area 51 sez:"I have no doubt it's gonna get ugly around here again."
What do you mean . . . "gonna." Read the above blog comments and almost all the previous blog comments over the last few months. "gonna?" "Already has" is more like it. Ugly. Ugly.
Ann, from the tone of your posting regarding the legal effort to fight procedural and constitutional matters, it appears you are overlooking the real problem.
Los Osos needs a sewer as part of the slution to providing clean drinking water. We were on our way to having a sewer when the recall board stopped the project and threw away the Districts funds.
Now that this District has proven themselves so inept at providing any leadership in clean water and the related sewer project, those responsibilities have been taken away by the State, not the Water Board, but by the State of California Legistlature.
The continueing legal crusade led by McPherson will accomplish just what? Wasteing more District funds on another lawyer?
All that needs to happen is the 218 vote which you complained that the old CSD Board did not do. The 218 passes, the RWQCB holds any action unless further stoppage or delay of constructing the much needed sewer.
If this community really wanted to fight something, then fight the County to pay for the entire project! Fighting the State over procedural matters will not accomplish what you would like to believe. The only problem remaining with any sewer is the cost and the County is the starting point. Possibly the biggest mistake the old Boards made was not tackleing the County for funds, but I do know they were working very diligently with the Federal Govt for grants. This CSD spit in the face of County, State and Federal governments and ended up losing all credibility and any ability to obtain cooperation and funding assistance.
I totally disagree with the wasted legal expense of continueing to fight the RWQCB. They are the enforcers, they have to do that job and are not our friends! They are not supposed to be our friends! We are just one non-compliant District in California! They have to enforce the laws as made by our lawmakers. We are just wasteing our money fighting over minute procedures which won't mean squat in the real battle to bring Los Osos in to compliance with the Clean Water Acts!
If we need a fight, we need to go after those who could actually help with funding. But we won't get very far by challenging their authorities and responsibilities as has been done by our current local leaders. You want to bring the cost per person down, then get out and compete with every other community trying to do exactly the same thing.
To Steve:
I am still waiting for the documentation about the sewer that McPherson built.
To CB and KMH:
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they ain't coming to get you.
To Ann:
Ugly, ugly? When the figures come out the demand for jail for the "fab five" will get intense! And as the principal spokesperson for these fools, expect responsibility yourself. You will not be able to wiggle out of condemnation by public opinion. Remember the signs at the LOCSD meetings? Remember the signs at the street corners?
People get really upset when they are duped out of big hunks of money!
Oh, when will you guys ever learn?
FedUp wrote:
"Ron, Do you get a "jones" for being wrong, too?"
I wouldn't know...
"Gordon Hensley was not a member of the Solutions Group."
... because I'm never wrong...
"Jim Godfrey was a supporter of Save the Dream, but he did not "head it up"."
... NEVER wrong:
"We (Save the Dream) are a community-based organization made up of Los Osos property owners, renters, full- and part-time residents, seniors, families, singles, and young people all of whom love Los Osos!
Our goal is to support the Los Osos wastewater treatment project as proposed by the Los Osos Community Services District (LOCSD).
Some of our members have been working on a resolution to the wastewater problem for over 20 years and have been members of the county-appointed Technical Advisory Committee and Blue Ribbon Committee, Los Osos Community Advisory Committee (LOCAC), the Solution Group, and former Directors of the LOCSD. Many people new to the issue and/or new to the area are also part of our organization.
Together, we strive to present factual information to help our community be better informed.
Jim Gentilucci
Jim Godfrey
Gary Karner
Madeline Pedego
Bob Semonsen
Hank Watterworth"
4CK:
"Now how can you blame Democrats for supporting Gibson?"
Wanna have some great fun at the Mid-State Fair? Stop by the Republican booth and look how many pictures they have of Republican politicians scattered about, including Blakeslee in a cowboy hat, and then try to find one of Bush. Not gonna happen. They don't have ONE!
I've been to the fair twice now, and I've made a point both times to stop by and ask, "Where's a picture of Bush?" The standard answer? "Ummm. I didn't set up the display."
Yep, it's come to that. The Republicans don't even want anything to do with him.
Richard's
"* BS Architecture, Cal Poly, SLO, awarded 1979"
Go Mustangs!
Richard:
"You good folks have yammered and falsely accused past CSD board members and staff for YEARS about imagined illegalities; YET NOT ONCE PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE TO PROVE YOUR RIDICULOUS CHARGES."
I have. From, She is Los Osos, Part II:
"Considering she (Nash-Karner) spearheaded two ballot Measures in 1997 that both dealt with public recreation in Los Osos, and they both failed, yet just three years later, as an elected official and a County Parks Commissioner, she's telling the Coastal Commission, in an apparent attempt to cover-up the failure of her first plan, that there's a "strongly held community value" in Los Osos that any sewer plant must also double as a "centrally located recreational asset" even though there isn't a shred of evidence that supports that extraordinary claim, and the only "centrally located" sewer-park site is Tri-W, and considering that scenario fits every definition of fraud in California that I can find, I don't see how that is not a slam-dunk case of fraud... massive, very expensive fraud."
I'm good folk.
Mike wrote:
"Bonds 0 for 3 so far tonight!"
And the Dodgers with a dramatic 4-run 8th for the 6-4 win. Boo-yea.
thedamntruth said,
"I also cannot comment on specific information because there is an actual investigation going on. Legally I cannot disclose evidence to the public, but I will say that there are probable cause(s) for this investigation."
Gee, tdt, I think the investigation that you refer to is the one the 2006 Grand Jury recommended - which is to investigate the gift of public funds to Burke, Williams Sorenson by the current CSD board, sans Joe. The very same BWS that they will rehire tonight at the CSD meeting - to be "general council" this time!
"Los Osos is done with you, Richard."
Correction: it is you, thedamntruth, that is done with Richard. Speak for yourself.
Hi thedamntruth,
Hmmm.....if you cannot "legally disclose evidence to the public" about an "investigation" you are involved with, prudence says that you are legally bound not to disclose the existance of the "investigation" either.
Richard LeGros
To Ron:
No Bush picture at the fair? What a twist! Is he up for reelection? Politics start at home. I will NOT be voting for THIS Bush again.
I guess I will have to go by the Democratic Booth, if there is one, and see if there is a picture of Bill Clinton there. Every democrat should write in Bill Clinton.
Otherwise to sewertoons:
The LOCSD is stuck. They have NO choice but to rehire Burke, Williams, & Sorenson. Who will defend them against gift of public funds except BWS? Who will defend them for responsibility for the bankruptcy? BWS is in the same boat and subject to the same prosecution. This law firm advised the LOCSD board of directors.
Who has the "deep pockets" when the error and ommissions claims begin?
Sewertoons, Sewertoons... where did I hear that name before. Oh yes, that's right. Jerry Gregory once talked about a side project that Pandora wanted to do for a while called "Sewer Toons," and it was later discovered that she wanted to work with the artist who publishes the "Funny Paperz" in the Bay News. How cute.
Sewertoons (or Pandora), whichever you want me to call you:
I said 2005, not 2006. Get your numbers right. Go back to your Ceramics classes at Cuesta College and learn how to sculpt something other than lies.
Thanks.
And to Richard, you don't know anything about the law. You're an architect, not an accountant nor a lawyer. If you really knew the law, you would keep quiet and not even post on these blogs.
Hi thedamntruth
Hmmm....and I should take "legal advice" from a non-lawyer such as yourself?
FYI, my attorney does know the law; and we concur that your "legal advice" is not credible.
Sorry, your "investigation" does not exist; nor do your "warnings" scare me off (or any other blogger for that matter) from this or any other blogs.
In short, thank you for your "advice".
Regards, Richard LeGros
Why is it conspiracy boy/the damntruth keep guessing that everyone who blogs here is either Pandora or some amalgam of the same person? Could it be they read too many Ron Crawford spy novels?
Sigh.
Keep vigilant Los Osos. These are the cretins who will soon be marching on your street corners again telling you to put your hands up and hand over your wallet. Theives one and all.
"No Bush picture at the fair? What a twist! Is he up for reelection? Politics start at home. I will NOT be voting for THIS Bush again."
C'mon Crap. You're a smart woman, and you certainly know what coat tails are. Coat tails are what Al Gore SHOULD have been riding in 2000, but unfortunately chose not to ride. Oh well. That was his choice, and the outcome has been disasterous since. I think you're too smart to not admit that Dubya has no coat tails to ride. None. Zilch. He's a disaster, and no politician on this earth who felt he had a chance in hell to win an election would go anywhere near him. C'mon. You know this. It's Ok to admit. It doesn't make you less of a Republican.
Conspiracy Boy,
I presume that Reuhr applied as someone with technical expertise and Goldin applied as someone with financial expertise. (I might be wrong about Goldin, but doesn't he head up the LOCSD finance committee?)
If you would care to explain how Reuhr ... who has shown his non-scientific biases against TriW in the past ... could be considered a more impartial technical expert than Don Asquith ... it would be informative.
About Goldin ... his public comment, as chair of the finance committee, on the most recent LOCSD audit, shows he is not unbiased because he kept trying to blame the past board for all that is evil in Los Osos and he refused to comment on any aspect of the problems since the recall which are the source of ... um ... 100% of the current bankruptcy.
Perhaps we're all biased ... but those you've listed here as superior choices to those who were selected, as less biased, have their own obvious problems with bias. One can even make the argument that they are much more biased than those selected.
In any case, you smell a rat in the County offices and I suspect that whatever happens, you will continue to think the process was stacked.
To area51:
Bush has been a semi disappointment. But the expectations belong to me. You are correct that he has no coat tails to ride. He put the last nail in his political coffin over the immigration dispute.
He was correct about Iraq and Afganistan, but muddled the war with insufficient troop levels. However, Clinton had cut the troop levels down to a dangerous level. Bush was totally correct in his economic policy, wrong about immigration, correct in trying to do something about social security and medicare, and totally correct about terrorism.
His big failing has been not to be more confrontational with the liberal/secular/progressives. There is no compromise with those who simply want political gain at any cost. Poor speaker. No fire. However, even today he has a better rating than congress.
As to AL GORE: "Stupid is, as stupid does".
I do not really care about national candidates. Politics belong at home. I am busy enough with the "nut cases" in Los Osos.
Ann,
About the forgiving and community healing ... I would argue that if one is holding a grudge it will be very difficult to work with those same folks you are unwilling to forgive. Yes, it can be done, but it is not easy. I would also argue that community healing will happen far sooner when folks in our town start to forgive each other.
Frankly, while I don't agree with what Lisa (for example) has done, I do believe she has had only upright intentions and that she really wants the best for our community.
I don't believe that everyone in town has motivations as pure as those of Lisa and Steve Senet and Joe Sparks and Ann Calhoun ... but the vast majority of us, even the vast majority of the "players" with names we all know are well intentioned.
What does this all mean? Holding hands and singing Kumbaya while forming a human chain from Ralphs to Ace and Carlocks and then the library? Not hardly. What it does mean is that even if we each have good reason for thinking particular past actions were a mistake, we ought to focus on what is the best thing to do next.
I think the choices are clear ... "yes" on a 218 vote to authorize the County to build a horribly expensive sewer at some as-of-yet unknown location or vote "no" because you think that the project could be done better or cheaper by someone else (or because you are afraid the County will go with TriW and because you would prefer another location no matter what the cost).
The problem I have with the "no" vote option really is that while there may be the possibility of a cheaper solution than whatever the County will propose, there is no guarantee that it will be cheaper. Furthermore, the LOCSD won't have the ability to do any project. They don't even have enough money to take a 218 vote to build anything and if they did, many folks would vote "no" out of fears that the CSD would try to skim some off the top to pay for their debts. I would suggest that the State would step in with special legislation to give the project to someone else ... someone who doesn't necessarily have an interest in meeting the community needs like the County seems to be ... heck, even the department of corrections could take on the job and get it done.
Lastly, on the issue of PZLDF vs. RWQCB ... you are right, Ann, that it would be good to verify that the RWQCB has followed the process correctly. I do think, however, that the way which one ought to do that is with as little litigation and antagonism as possible. It's not good to throw rocks at a pit-bull if you try to keep the dog at bay with a gentler style. For example, putting any lawsuits on hold until the RWQCB takes the step of trying to enforce the CDOs might help calm them down. If the RWQCB is a big a batch of mean people as some here would suggest, please remember it is far easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar.
Let me state again ... supporting your neighbors might not be the same as supporting a possibly misguided legal strategy.
Ann, you yourself, have asked us to pay attention for fear that the train is off the tracks. You've suggested that we question everyone. Shouldn't we also question Gail and Shaunna's strategy?
SharkInlet:
You say, "I would suggest that the State would step in with special legislation to give the project to someone else ... someone who doesn't necessarily have an interest in meeting the community needs like the County seems to be ..."
This is bull. Who in the state can take over? I've asked this over and over, but no answer from you guys.
It was said tonight (by the guy sitting with Maria and Lynette, who said home values go up -- ha ha, another lie, and to sell your homes ha ha -- sell it and take $100,000.00 loss -- people will have to move -- to flush a toilet? they have to move?) That's all you people seem to have -- lies.
Please answer the question. If the DWR can't take over the sewer project for the state -- who the heck are you and CrapKiller talking about?
The county will deliver gravity probably out of town for a Regional Plant. Will the county have us pay now to bail out Morro Bay -- just like they want the PZ to bail out the rest of town. The wealthy don't have to pay? Real nice of your all.
Again, Mr. Inlet, I would suggest that the 218 trumps the phoney RWQCB's PZ.
Have you read the 218 law?
It's the Right to Vote on Taxes Act. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE WHETHER WE WANT TO BE TAXED! The RWQCB in breaking the law interferring with our constitutional right to vote!
I question your (and all your Dreamer friends) and the county's strategy!
What you all want, and are pushing is illegal, immoral, and unethical.
Conspiracy Boy,
Please remember that without AB2701, the County was not allowed to take over. If the state wants DWR or Corrections or the University of California to take over the Los Osos sewer, it will happen. Just because you think that there isn't a natural obvious choice doesn't mean squat.
I also find it interesting that you demand I provide an explanation for my earlier statement yet you've not explained why you believe that the County will have a regional plant ... even though it has been explained to you that the County doesn't have the authority to do a plant for Morro Bay and even though it has been explained to you that there is virtually now way that any regulatory agency will allow the piping of sewage along South Bay Blvd.
I also find it odd that you are telling us that the PZ is going to "bail out" the rest of Los Osos ... the rest of Los Osos doesn't need a sewer. What do you mean?
I would also wonder how at 218 vote would trump the PZ definition. These would seem to be two separate issues. The County cannot force the RWQCB to change the PZ definition. One can say that the PZ definition defines the benefits to homeowners inside the PZ.
The question you have to ask yourself is whether you want to be taxed or not to build a plant. The RWQCB is not interfering by having defined the PZ some 25 years ago or by reminding us that if we vote "no" that there will likely be consequences of a continued pattern of choosing to make not progress when we could have.
Maybe if you explain your reasoning more on these two points we will understand what you mean. If you don't, please understand that you sound like a rambling madman.
Inlet sez:"Lastly, on the issue of PZLDF vs. RWQCB ... you are right, Ann, that it would be good to verify that the RWQCB has followed the process correctly. I do think, however, that the way which one ought to do that is with as little litigation and antagonism as possible. It's not good to throw rocks at a pit-bull if you try to keep the dog at bay with a gentler style. For example, putting any lawsuits on hold until the RWQCB takes the step of trying to enforce the CDOs might help calm them down. If the RWQCB is a big a batch of mean people as some here would suggest, please remember it is far easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar."
You are forgetting that 45 people have had certain steps legally taken against their property. Under the law, they also only have certain steps they can take to make sure those steps were actually legal. This involves a "real" court and must be done in a timely manner, or else the door is shut to them forever. (If you had been paying attention to the CDO process, you would have noticed those compelling, often onerous time schedules that the 45 HAD TO MEET. If they didn't, they'd lose all their rights in the proceedings & etc.) I suspect if you were one of the CDO holders, you might understand better the legal steps that really need to be done to protect YOUR property. It has nothing to do with pit bulls or flies or honey. It's just . . . law. Cut and dried, but law always operates on a critical time line. If you've read the various legal points Shauna has raised and you feel there are other points better suited, then you should have attended the PZLDF meetings and raised those issues. Did you?
Inlet sez:"About the forgiving and community healing ... I would argue that if one is holding a grudge it will be very difficult to work with those same folks you are unwilling to forgive. Yes, it can be done, but it is not easy. I would also argue that community healing will happen far sooner when folks in our town start to forgive each other."
"Forgiveness" is different from "grudges", is different from "moving on" is different from "working together," etc. Rather than "forgiveness," what might be more useful is some Truth & Reconciliation Process, with the emphasis on Truth. For example, some time ago, in this comment section, a person calling himself Richard LeGros stated that the recalled CSD absolutley HAD TO START WORK ON THE SEWER WHEN THEY DID BECAUSE THEY HAD TO, THEY HAD NO CHOICE, --this was followed by somebody calling themselves Julie Tacker who said, NO, YOU HAD UNTIL DECEMBER (if memory serves) TO START WORK. and so forth. So, which statement is true? This community was told repeatedly that TRI W WAS THE ONLY CHOICE AVAILABLE, that a plant located out of town would be WAAAAAAYYYY more expensive. True or not true (perhaps we'll find out when the TAC and the county finish their evaluation?) Then remember BOS rep. Bianchi telling the community that the CC would NEVER allow a sewer pipe to cross a creek, & etc, etc. etc. All yes/no questions, near as I can see. Until those are answered honestly, then theis community will have to know that, for whatever reason, they were . . . . lied to? given wrong info? snookered? Then, of course, during the Truth & Reconciliation portion of the Kumbaya Show, somebody has to refute Ron Crawford's carefully laid out documentation of Park With A Sewer Attached To It Problem. Then maybe the community can finally understand that all of this -- History of the Hideous Los Osos Sewer Wars -- was the result of 1) deliberate manipulation of fact 2) wrong information given by a variety of experts or engineers or . . . somebody somewhere? 3) incompetence 4) lack of due dilligence and oversight 5)consistent failure of government to pay attention to #4) 6) deliberate hidden agendas at work 7) hubris and arrogance, 8)all of the above, 9)something else? Once all of that is sorted out, then and only then can one even begin to speak of "forgiveness."
But lacking all the above is still no reason that this community can't "move on," which is exactly what it's doing.
Ann,
Please note that I am not arguing with you about whether CDO recipients should protect their (and our) rights. I am suggesting that one should pay careful attention and that "supporting your neighbors" isn't necessarily the same thing as following one particular legal strategy. For you to suggest that the two are identically the same thing troubles me. As you write (in Latin typically), "let the reader beware." The very fact that Gail is involved in PZLDF would make the careful observer want to get a 2nd legal opinion before assuming that Sullivan's approach is the only approach or the best approach.
Ann, you are right about a Truth and Reconciliation process. (Also please note that forgiveness and reconciliation are essentially the same thing ... at least the way I use the words ... apologies to anyone who thought I meant something closer to "forgive and forget" when I wrote "forgive".)
I tend to think that we ought to put the "who is to blame?" question on the back burner until we've been able to move forward from where we are now to somewhere far better. Once a project has been started by the County or LOCSD or whomever, we can focus on the original cause of the recent troubles.
I would suggest, however, that essentially your numbers "4) lack of due diligence and oversight" and "7) hubris and arrogance" are the vast majority of the problem with the Los Osos experiment with self governance.
I know that you don't believe that the CSD board needed to start construction when they did and I know that I don't believe that the recall boardmembers really had a plan that was ready to go that would cost only $100 per month. However, to truly work together as a community ... to work together toward a plan that is better than the alternative (CDOs and the project getting punted back to a penniless LOCSD) we should choose to overlook those past mis-steps and focus forward.
SharkInlet:
I don't care what you think. Think I'm a rambling madman, I don't care.
I've gotten more than one legal opinion on these two issues. I've talked with the state and county and the DWR. I've talked with state employees and top county TAC.
I don't care about your opinion.
The RWQCB is interferring with our right to vote, our constitutional right. It is illegal. Electioneering is too.
I don't give a hoot what YOU think, I'd rather talk to people that have law degrees. Any expert, but not you, unless you are an expert. If so, then why are you just blogging and cheerleading for the Tri-W, county and water boards? Step up, tell us who you are, all about YOUR expertise, and help the community!
Who the heck are you anyway? A coward?
P.S. On one earlier question regarding TAC applicants; it was Judge Martha Goldin who applied. Not her husband. She is not biased, she is as sharp (or sharper) than ANY judge I've met.
SharkInlet:
One more thing, you said, "why you believe that the County will have a regional plant ... even though it has been explained to you that the County doesn't have the authority to do a plant for Morro Bay and even though it has been explained to you that there is virtually now way that any regulatory agency will allow the piping of sewage along South Bay Blvd."
I only said that's what I think will happen. Morro Bay is in trouble. Paavo has mentioned "Regional" more than a few times.
The sewer pipes would not go along South Bay Blvd.
I only said this after watching the "county dance" -- of course it could be something completely different because the county changes everything daily anyway. When you're working in the gray area of the law, that's what you have to do.....
Conspiracy,
I just calls em like I sees em. If you present yourself as a rambling madman, you'll get people thinking you are. If you take the time to write more clearly and to justify your ... ahem ... more questionable claims ... you'll get more folks paying attention.
Even though I don't typically agree with you, I think that a good reasoned discussion is a valuable thing for sorting out what might be best for our community.
Now to your points ...
I don't understand your claim that the RWQCB is interfering with our right to vote. Please explain how they are keeping people from voting.
You also suggest that the RWQCB sending out letters point out that they'll take action unless something is done is a case of electioneering. Others would suggest it is the RWQCB making people aware of the consequences of choosing to make no progress at yet another opportunity. Perhaps the lack of RWQCB fines could be incorporated into the process as a "special benefit".
As for who I am and whether I have expertise or not ... it shouldn't matter to you. I have never claimed special expertise in this discussion and I am essentially just someone who pays a moderate amount of attention to what is going on. This is the same sort of background that Ann Calhoun and Ron Crawford (and Julie and Lisa and Chuck and Steve and Joe) have, yet you don't seem to be criticizing them for not being an expert. I would also think that if you're criticizing me for not coming forward by name you would first set an example and tell us who you are.
About the confusion of the Goldins ... I apologize. As you didn't give first names, I jumped too quickly to the conclusion it was the Goldin who was already participating in the LOCSD committee. Whether she is sharp or not isn't so very much important. What does seem to be important in the TAC selection process is whether one can demonstrate they are qualified as an engineer, environmental scientist or financial wizard. The two exceptions to those criteria would seem to be Maria and Rob who were the top vote getters among those not elected to a CSD board position. A wise choice by the County, if you ask me.
In any case, as you put Goldin's name out there with Reuhr and Alexander, I would expect you would at least refer to their TAC applications (and those who were selected) and point out how exactly she and they were clearly more qualified than those who were selected. It isn't obvious to me that there is a clear case for any of those three. Alexander, in particular, turned in a mess of an application and the County shouldn't have chosen him because of that ... even if he did have qualifications.
On the last issue of your speculation that the County will end up with a regional plant. I apologize that I read your speculative musings as a reasoned opinion. If you would like us to treat those comments as anything more than just the "gut feeling of conspiracy boy", let us know why you're thinking the County will end up there.
SharkInlet:
The Regional Water Board has stated over and over through the years that they want Tri-W. Why?
It is not their decision to make. But they've over stepped their bounds and abused their power.
The RWQCB says things like, "it depends how you vote..." and also at the last meeting here when some of the public said they'd vote yes if the project was affordable or environmentally friendly, the RWQCB says, "I don't like the "ifs"..."
The RWQCB is certainly interferring with the threats. Look at the last mass mailing (Notice of Violation) to all PZ homes. It's electioneering and that is interferring with our vote. Maybe you don't think so, but I do.
I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. If you people are stupid enough to want a $300 million dollar sewer, what can I say?
Inlet sez:"Please note that I am not arguing with you about whether CDO recipients should protect their (and our) rights. I am suggesting that one should pay careful attention and that "supporting your neighbors" isn't necessarily the same thing as following one particular legal strategy. For you to suggest that the two are identically the same thing troubles me. As you write (in Latin typically), "let the reader beware." The very fact that Gail is involved in PZLDF would make the careful observer want to get a 2nd legal opinion before assuming that Sullivan's approach is the only approach or the best approach."
Forget McPherson, why don't you READ Sullivan's brief for yourself? Surely, you will find quite a few points there that are truly worth asking and deciding, since the outcome will have a direct effect on YOU, and so help support her efforts at getting those issues answered, especially since, to my knowledge, she's the only one asking those questions, and the answers to those questions may directly effect YOU. Or are you the kind of person who watches your neighbors struggle to paddle YOUR canoe while you do nothing to help except maybe hit them over the head with a rock from time to time?
Inlet also sez:"we should choose to overlook those past mis-steps and focus forward."
Once again, you don't seem to understand. If you don't have a clear understanding of WHAT happened, your chances of repeating it go sky high. Also, you have to know that there are a lot of original players out there still trying to knee-cap any hope that this Process will finally get and stay clean. The way Tri-W has been handled is a perfect example. It remains to be seen if the BOS on Tuesday will vote to level the playing field, so to speak.
Inlet sez:"Also please note that forgiveness and reconciliation are essentially the same thing ... at least the way I use the words ..."
That may be the way you use words, but "reconciliation" is still a long way from "forgiveness," but neither gets anywhere without "truth."
Conspiracy Boy,
If you read the explanation of why the RWQCB wants TriW it is really clear ... they view the already permitted plant as likely to be online far sooner than any other possible plant and thus have an impact on water quality far sooner than other options. It takes time to design stuff and permit stuff, you know.
If we had an out-of-town fancy ponding system that had already been approved, the RWQCB would be pushing for that system over other possible alternatives even if those would be cheaper. The Water Quality board cares only about water quality and not about our costs and "sustainability" and the like.
If we make the choice to vote down a lien that could be collateral for an assessment (the 218 vote) we will essentially be telling the RWQCB that we think that it is better to delay the improvement of water quality than to take action right away.
They're pretty single-minded and they seem to not so much care about other things (like affordability and location) at all.
I hardly think that telling us what they'll do if we vote "no" is electioneering ... it's providing the electorate full information that they would want to consider before voting. No one who is allowed to vote is prevented from voting at all. To me it sounds like you don't want the information from the RWQCB to be known by those who are to vote ... that you don't want people to be influenced by the possibility of CDOs. Sounds to me as if you are opposed to people knowing all the facts. Not very democratic, if you ask me.
As far as your comment about a $300M sewer ... even according to Ron, TriW was a $170M treatment plant (where he got that number, I don't know, others in the know penciled it in as a $135 to $150M plan). Where is that other $130M coming from? No one wants a $300M sewer. I am afraid that if you get your way and if we vote no on the 218 vote, the sewer will be even more expensive than whatever the County would do for (to?) us. You believe Orenco is the savior but I see as of yet no reason to trust them. What you tell us they can do is something that is so far away from what all the other professionals tell us (costwise) that you'll have to convince us if you want us to believe. Yes, I know you say that you're goal isn't to convince ... but if that is true ... why bother participating in this discussion?
Ohmigosh Ann ...
I merely say that Sullivan's legal strategy might not be the best and you start arguing that I shouldn't say that without even reading her brief. As I've already said, I'm not a lawyer ... but I do know as a fact that not all lawyers agree on all things so it isn't clear at all that she is right. Here's my question for you ... how do you know that her approach is the best possible tactic for the CDO recipients to take? How do you, a non-lawyer, know that her strategy doesn't have some huge drawback?
You don't.
As for your canoe comment ... hogwash. Well, if I saw my neighbor trying to franticly row a canoe toward something quite dangerous ... it might be worth warning them. As you have repeatedly warned us, we ought to pay attention to the minutiae yet when I tell folks to do the same thing with regard to PZLDF you seem to take it personally. I don't get it.
On the matter of truth and reconciliation and forgiveness ... I guess that you're telling us that as a community we can't really experience reconciliation without Julie and Lisa stepping forward to apologize for tell us stuff as if it were fact which she knew to be not factual at all. You do have a good point ... however ... that until Julie and Lisa do that ... there are some in our community who are hell-bent on making a horrible situation even worse by advocating for a "no" on the upcoming 218 vote.
Ann, you need to know that these two issues are related as well ... it is silly for us to say that we should ignore Gail and her past when we evaluate the current actions of the PZLDF ... and then in the next breath you tell us that without understanding our mistakes of the past we are more likely to make them again. Which is it ... should we insist on Gail fessing up to her misguided advice before we evaluate her current recommendations or should we simply ignore that she's had a leadership role in PZLDF?
SharkInlet:
I am not trying to convince anyone. This is a discussion board. I put out my thoughts and observations.
You, on the other hand, are acting like you work for the waterboard. Do you?
Yes, the project you want could cost $300 million. There's no cap on the project. There's no cap on the fees and charges. It's a blank check. When you vote yes this time, there's no turning back -- NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT ENDS UP COSTING.
You always say "we" -- who's the "we"? Is it all the Tri-W supporters from the Tribune site that have taken over Ann's? Do you think I would even try to convince them of anything? I don't think so.
This is only the first of our 218 assessments. There will be more. There's no cap on the fees and charges. It's a very bad plan, but if the people in this community are stupid enough to fall (again) for this bull, there is nothing I can do but sell all my children to pay for the sewer.
You see no reason to trust Orenco? I see no reason to trust the county -- they're a bunch of crooks working for the developer's interests. Oh, and you think the water board cares about water quality? You make me laugh Mr. Inlet!
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