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Thursday, February 28, 2008

Survey Sez?

The following survey came in via email from a PZLDF list-serve member. It was an informal compilation of questions concerning the Wastewater Project. As a general list of Things To Look For, Things To Keep In Mind, Things To Do, it's a good start. If you have any others, do add them. Some of the comments will be good to keep in mind and maybe bring to any public input sessions in the form of a question or two.

The Los Osos Wastewater Project

If you were to give the County a "report card" on the effort to date, what overall grade would you give them to date? (A-F)

The score is from 1-10, with ten the highest, please answer the following questions or statements.

Feel free to add comments

Has the County been true to the mission stated for the project?
Is the Los Osos project schedule realistic?
Is the project on schedule?
Is the Outreach achieving the goal of community participation?
Is the letter and spirit of 2701 being fulfilled?
Are all options being fully vetted?
Will the project be affordable for you?
Is the project funded correctly and adequately?
Are you in favor of private funding if the long term costs prove to be favorable?
Will the water resource and conversation goals be likely met?
Is the timing of a transfer to the County after 2008 appropriate?
Do you support the expenses and budget for the preliminary effort to date?
Do you have confidence that the EIR and other due-diligence tasks are being handled correctly?
What level of confidence do you have that the project will be completed by the County?
What level of confidence do you have that the project will be completed by the CDO enforcement deadline of 2011?
Do you believe that the water board will work cooperatively with the Los Osos project?
I haven't a clue what is happening and need more information from the County.
Did you approve of the TRI W site?
Do you support "Design-Build" for project delivery?
If the Bids for the project come in higher than budgeted, will you support an increase in your assessment?
A system that uses on-lot tanks as part of the collection system (similar to a septic tank) is ok if it provides the best value, lowest cost.
I would not under any circumstances want to have a tank on-lot. Even if it is lower cost.
I have received a notice of violation and I am concerned that I could have enforcement order on my home.
I am participating in the County process, and satisfied with the way the project is going.
I plan to move from Los Osos before the project is delivered.

Other information:
http://losososcsd.org/wwwp/index/html
www.pzldf.org
http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/pw/lowwp.htm


Recovery 101, Part Tres or Quatro

The De Vaul Ranch Saga continues. As the Tribune reports today, after the County code enforcement folks offically shut down the non-permitted "barn," the folks staying at the ranch moved out into tents near Los Osos Valley Road. They camped out there last time this issue came to a head and the placement of the tents and cots, in an unprotected, windy spot, made me wonder if folks were concerned with safety and well-being or making a public, political, in-your-face statement. After all, it would have made more sens to me to locate the tents and cots back in the lee of the trees or condemned 'barn." But then, so much of this ongoing battle has always been about "in your face" posturing, so the Tent City is now perfectly placed for maximum irritation aimed at the folks living in their expensive ranchette homes across the street, who have complainted that the de Vaul ranch in general is a blight upon their beautiful views, and a likely eyesore to all the motorists passing by who will have to ask, Hey, what's going on, and then go on to pepper their Supervisors with questions and comments .

What's gone missing in this dust-up, of course, are the actual people involved. For the most part, they're homelss, recovering addicts or alcoholics, with a few convicted sex-offenders thrown in for good measure. Since the county is not addressing their housing needs, the question remains: Are they and the community better served by having them staying on the ranch where they can get minimal shelter, some kind of coherent organized food supply and group support while they try to get their lives together? And the sex offenders would be a known quantity under close scrutiny of the police, rather than being scattered to the winds, who knows where, throughout the community. Or would the community be better served having these folks sleeping along the creeks or in county parks or other odd out-of-the way spots, under no supervision and with not even minimum group supervision and support?

Meantime, here's another question. Leaving the housing issue aside, does the de Vaul ranch have sufficient zoning leeway to allow for a group to set up a non-profit operation much the way Growing Grounds has? They're an amazing non-profit sheltered-workshop type program that helps people in recovery from mental illness, teaching them new skills and giving them real, honest to god paid work at a productive job growing plants for sale at nurseries throughout the county. Could something like that work at de Vaul's place? Recovering "employees" would commit to the program of sobriety and work at growing and selling specialty crops, seedling nursery plants, prepare and sell wine cask barrel planters, sell firewood & etc, with profits being used to pay "salaries," and if necessary, meals. Could such a business, properly run, serve as a basis for a practical, real, serious, "recovery" program, one that had as it's end-game, reintigration into society, not just a slightly nicer permanent homeless encampment.

Just a thought. Of course, the harsh reality is that no working ranch surrounded by encroaching million-dollar ranchettes and under tremendous pressure for other upscale future developments will remain a working ranch for long because working ranches are always "unsightly" and messy and have the potential to annoy the neighbors at different times of the season. It's the nature of the beast. So the clock is ticking on that property, one way or the other.

As public theatre, the de Vaul saga has been amusing. As real, on-the-ground human drama, it's not funny at all and remains a tough problem for this county and this country: What shall we do for people who can't or perhaps won't care for themselves?

Anatole France once savagely and satirically observed, "The Law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and steal bread." That quote ranks right up there with the thinking that people have a "right" to be mentally ill, as if that were a soberly-considered, competently and logically-made"lifestyle" choice, instead of a dangerous blade that can cut lives to the ground with swift indifferent strokes.

77 comments:

Shark Inlet said...

Any suggestion that those who fill out the survey for PZLDF are in any way representative of Los Osos residents or property owners should be met with a good solid laugh.

Even if the questions are unbiased, the method of obtaining a sample is of huge import.

I would also add that the instruction "The score is from 1-10, with ten the highest, please answer the following questions or statements" doesn't match too well with a question like "Do you believe that the water board will work cooperatively with the Los Osos project?". If approximately 2000 voters in Palm Beach County punch the "Buchannan" when they meant to punch "Gore" it is clear that clarity of instructions is important.

If I were grading this as a project for survey writing and sample taking, this would be receive a C-. Not a failure because this is a truly important issue and because the questions all touch on important matters, but there certainly is great room for improvement.

Spectator said...

Ann:

This is a terrible problem. If you have looked at the situation, there have been comments to the Tribune story that ALLEGE that there are ten convicted child molesters among them. It is also ALLEGED That there is no supervision on the site as to alcohol consumption or possible drug testing for drug abuse.

I look upon alcohol and drug abuse as a sickness and medical problem.

In my mind, child molestation is another story. However, I do understand that women seeking a divorce, and increased monthly payments for an extended period of time, do make accusations of child abuse. I also understand that no one gets prosecuted for perjury in a divorce court, or other court, other than federal.

You might update this story and show the other side of why this is happening. The Trib, with comments, has covered it fully, but most is slanted to favor the poor victims. It is also ALLEGED that the owner of the property collects rent from the victims.

Is sexual child abuse and pedophilia a disease? Or is it criminal behavior as now defined.

How does society handle people who do not wish to get treatment, and refuse it because they are supervised, feeling that their personal liberties are violated?

Society needs to deal with this, and soon. It is not getting better as population increases. And then there is the gang problem.

Spectator said...

Ann:

As far as the PXLDF survey is concerned, Thank you for publishing it. I was unwilling. The readers can decide as to the timing, and the validity. Everything has been discussed before, especially in light of 80% of the property owners asessing themselves for an unknown sewer project, which we may or may not get. It is in the hands of the county. By LAW, they will decide or NOT.

Spectator said...

Mistyped an X into Pzldf. Sorry.

Watershed Mark said...

Questions like this are of assistance to whom?

Gags, bits and business
"Business" is the individual motions the clown uses, often used to express the clown's character. A "gag" is a very short piece of clown comedy which when repeated within a bit or routine may become a "running gag". Gags may be loosely defined as "the jokes clowns play on each other". Bits are the clown's sketches or routines made up of one or more gags either worked out and timed before going on stage or impromptu bits composed of familiar improvisational material. A gag may have a beginning, a middle and an end to them, or they may not. Gags can also refer to the prop stunts/tricks or the stunts that clowns use, such as a squirting flower.

Mike Green said...

Well, all I can hope is that the county won't use the PZLDF survey as a template for our (promised) "pickasewer" survey coming up.

What the heck are you supposed to do with it? Rate each statement and question on a 1-10 scale, for what? agreement or relevance?
If it's agreement then all you end up with is a useless number that means nothing.
If it's for relevance, then you get a quantifiable number relating to the worth of the survey itself.
If it's just a bunch of meandering half-thoughts then big whoop, we all have those.

I notice the biggest question didn't get asked:

Would you approve of the county building the fastest and cheapest system (by bid, not estimate) that the RWQCB approves of , regardless of type or location?

Mike Green said...

I still think it was a mistake for PZLDF to morph into CFCW.
Civil rights injustice shouldn't mix with wastewater engineering.
That's my humble opinion.

Mike said...

I'm in full agreement Mike Green!

Sewertoons said...

They morphed I believe, to not sound so silly and to clean up their image (remember all that blogging over "pizzles"), and water - clean water, is very respectable these days.

A lawsuit that threatens the PZ and therefore all the work toward getting LO a sewer that the County has done, is not a very warm and fuzzy feeling for property owners who have recently promised $25,000 toward that end after much gut wrenching and soul searching. Retreating back to square one again is NOT a popular idea.

Gail has been so wonderfully quiet these days, but I guess it was too good to last.

Churadogs said...

Inlet Sez, "Any suggestion that those who fill out the survey for PZLDF are in any way representative of Los Osos residents or property owners should be met with a good solid laugh."

I think you missed the part that said feel free to add any questions of your own and the part where I noted, these are good questions to keep in mind to take to any input meetings with the County and ask questions about if you're a mind to do that. I don't think it was assembled by various community members -- informally -- to be seen as some kind of test in need of grading from you.

Spectator sez:"I look upon alcohol and drug abuse as a sickness and medical problem"

Excellent cover story in the latest Newsweek (Mar 3)on new drugs and, of all things, vaccines that could possibly innoculate people most at risk to become addicts.

Re the alleged child molesters, etc. the Tribune quotes a law enforcement personage as noting that folks living at Sunny Acres are known, versus folks scattered all along the creek i.e. easy to keep an eye on being all in once place. And I believe many of the folks living there are attending AA meetings & working on their sobriety & etc. But you're right, the County and state needs to do a better job on all of this, especially since so many addicts end up addicts self-medicating for underlying mental health problems that go untreated because our medical delivery system in this country sucks and/or is often non existent, especially in the case of mental health providers and facilities.

If you want to make yourself crazy, consider that so many folks in prison (at $40,000+++ a year) have some sort of reading problem (dyslexia, etc) and/or an underlying mental health issue (bi-polar, untreated depression) and so were set up for real trouble as the storms of adolescence set in. It costs waaaayyyyy less to catch kids in the early grades with special reading programs and if we had adequate mental health programs (and education to let people know what they were dealing with and better ways to treat and cope with their illness) than it is to simply hope for the best, watch as lives are ruined, then cough up $40k to keep those ruined lives in a cell.

A caller into Dave Congalton's show suggested that the de Vaul ranch could be turned into a recovery facility -- it's not really "right next door," as in more built up areas with joining homes on the next lot over , could be tree-screened and beautified and is still (sorta) out in the country, which is where most citizens insist homeless shelters and various sober-living facilities be located.(Which, of course, makes it hard for residents to get public transportation to work, if they have jobs.) In any case, it's a problem that won't go away even if everyone leaves the ranch.

Shark Inlet said...

Ann,

Your comments on the "survey" were good. These are (with Mike Green's addition) a good set of questions for our community.

That they were presented by you as a PZLDF survey. As a survey it is written like cr*p. Surely you aren't telling us that all those questions were well thought out and carefully worded.

I was also pointing out that if (you remember hypotheticals, don't you) they were to obtain answers in any way other than a scientific sample (and you told us that they were soliciting answers via the internet) the results would certainly be misleading.

I didn't miss the point. I am disappointed that you felt the need to criticize my comment.

Churadogs said...

Inlet sez:"That they were presented by you as a PZLDF survey. As a survey it is written like cr*p. Surely you aren't telling us that all those questions were well thought out and carefully worded.

I was also pointing out that if (you remember hypotheticals, don't you) they were to obtain answers in any way other than a scientific sample (and you told us that they were soliciting answers via the internet) the results would certainly be misleading."

Please re-read what I posted in italics. I didn't say anything about "scientific sample" or anything about "soliciting answers via the internet" or that the questions were well worded and carefully though out. Perhaps you were reading into my brief comments things that weren't there? I also didn't "criticize" you for "grading" the survey. I simply said that I didn't think the folks who put it together were expecting to be "graded." My italic comments further noted that you and other should feel free to add to the list as it clearly is an INFORMAL work in progress, NOT some official survey and certainly covered some excellent points that the community needs to be aware of if they want to make sure The Process stays clean and transparent -- which means they have to stay involved.

Watershed Mark said...

Gail/PZLDF might want to put out a survey on waterboarding...

I understand that Chairman Young (an attorney) stated that 13301.1 Assistance with order, was not law.

Rodger Briggs, Harvey Packard/CCRWQCB can't handle a real court proceeding...

The $79.5M "defamation claim" goes hard on or about March 21st. We added every agency level to the claim which restarted the 45 day respose period.

Ann, you are "spot on" about the people keeping things proper. Only when people understand and assert the law will they be able to protect themselves from people with personal agendas who use taxpayer money and fines(taxes) levied to further their agenda.

See www.NOwastewater.blogspot.com for an example of how a real American gits er dun.

Sewertoons said...

mark, did you add the CSD?

Watershed Mark said...

No.

The Drectors are in a class all by themselves. That is all I can write at this time.

Sewertoons said...

Which is to say… nothing.

Sewertoons said...

Unless you mean to sue the CSD separately? If true, can you explain how suing the CSD supports the Los Osos you claim to "love?"

Watershed Mark said...

Toons: Only when people understand and assert the law will they be able to protect themselves...and the people, places and things they love.

Too many people have given up their "rights" to "other people".

Sometimes a lawsuit is the only thing that will make change possible, think American's with disabilities here.

Sewertoons said...

I'm thinking a CSD that is hanging on by a thread. Funds have been recently cut into from the fire department - the reserves - and funds from the water department - (which pays for a disproportionate amount for lawyers as the water department serves roughly only half of the community - the rate-payers from Golden State pay nothing). There is nothing left to cut but services. You have no idea what you are asking the CSD to do. If I need an ambulance or a fire truck at my house, I want it to show up - I don't want to find that my services were cut to fund lawyers for your lawsuit.

If I "gave up my rights to other people," it is not your job to "get them back" so you can make a profit off my back.

Your so-called "understanding" of the law is just that. How DARE you impose that on us.

Watershed Mark said...

I'm thinking a CSD that is hanging on by a thread.

There has been an oppourtunity for a Public Private Partnership on the table since Late October 2007, for the LOCSD to become a 50% shareholder in AES DES llc.

The area of service is the same as CCRWQCB approximately 150,000 to 180,000 septic tanks(waterboard's number(s)) that will be under the gun with AB 885.

The monthly revenue and revenue generated from the LOSTDEP installations alone would have made the LOCSD very "solvent".

That's why the directors are in a class all by itself.

If you are looking for someone to hol;d accountable, why not start with your elected officials (all of them) the county had an oppourtunity for a PPP although not as generous as the LOCSD proposal, first.

When oppourtunity knocks, itis best to answer the door, even if you feel you must hold a lawyer in your hand.

The LOCSD Board President(s) never even agendized the proposal. Your Rate and Tax dollars at work with those whom you "turned" your rights over to.

Think TAC here...Gags, bits and business

Sad but true...

Watershed Mark said...

If I "gave up my rights to other people," it is not your job to "get them back" so you can make a profit off my back.

The "profit" issue is interesting because the RECLAMATOR LOSTDEP Solution is a fraction of the cost the sewerage the County is studying. Also the monthly charge is $45.75/monthand tied to the CPI.

The County has not, will not and cannot obligate itself to future rate hikes...

Besides:The RECLAMATOR Regulates Regulators

Citizens Conserve Cash, Time, Energy and Water while ceasing discharge of pollution.

Final Fact: SEWER GAME OVER! Just make the lender aware of the new facts the RECLAMATOR brings, A GUARANTEED PAYBACK IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE! No lender will lend money which cannot be guaranteed to be paid back.

It's just good business, no gags and no tricks.

Mike said...

WOWWIE.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"...the new facts the RECLAMATOR brings:

A GUARANTEED PAYBACK IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE!

No lender will lend money which cannot be guaranteed to be paid back."

So the Reclamator CANNOT back up it's claims and is now weasling out of the guarantee which it NEVER COULD provide. Not even GE Credit would lend on this preposterous toy! Now we expect Mark will slide back into used car, or was it fertilizer sales!!!

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

mark, I am able to do more research on a food processor prior to buying than I can on your so-called "service."

Public partnership on your CLAIMS? You've just GOT to be kidding! Talk about cowpie-in-the-sky!

(mike, wasn't it sales of dead meat? Slaughter or something? Although fertilizer sounds more fitting somehow.

Sewertoons said...

mark, show us where the Wrecklamator has regulated a regulator. Not some future hope of yours, but right now, in real time.

Watershed Mark said...

Mike,
GE has a holloow fiber,energy intensive "membrane" it sells. We won't expect GE to be a primary lender, there are many others who will be involved in the start-up/ initial financing.

Although the "Facts" may be newto you they have been in circulation before the February 12 posting.

Soon the RECLAMATOR will be in operation in the LOSTDEP and thwe service agreement will be available. Your comments regarding what is guaranteed or not, are premature if you haven't read the service. But that's just my opinion.

I just do not understand your "anger"...If you don't want to sign up for service, stick with the county's study process of leaky conventional sewerage. It is a free country.

You will come to understand we don't need "everyone" to be sucessful.

Watershed Mark said...

Toons:

I kid you not.

Still waiting for those links to all the data/info for the leaky conventional sewerage and failing treatment plant the county is studying that you are demanding from the RECLAMATOR.

I do not understand your impatience with the LOSTDEP RECLAMATOT Solution.

The County will have been at their study since before January 1, 2007 and willnot have an EIR completed until September 2008. It won't be until early to mid 2009 until a "bid" is finally offered.

That's a best case senario if "everythig" goes as planned for the county and there are no legal challenges...

Meanwhile the LOSTDEP RECLAMATOR Solution continues on step.

Mike said...

I'm not angry, just tired of the lies from this CSD, from you, from all the delays to a sewer. Until YOU obtain some clearance from the State Water Board, and they have not been complimentry toward the Reclamator, until you produce something official from the State Water Board, you are only making a lot of noise and have NO GUARANTEE that even if I were to buy into the Reclamator that I would not be subject to fines BECAUSE inspite of all your noise, the Reclamator is nothing more than a slightly higher tech septic tank that still DISCHARGES WASTE into the soil. You can BS about laws and whether they govern your installation or whether you are above the laws, but since you are in the public arena, you will be subject to State and Fed EPA laws. The reclamator requires a County issued electrical and sewage permits with inspections. Should any accident happen during the 8 ft deep excavation for the main body, you can also expect OSHA to visit. As for the method of financing and "shares" in your company I believe there are a few more laws to be aware of. But please do continue, I'm sure you have all the permits you need. Now just show us that the RWQCB has blest the installation and Los Osos will not see another CDO.

Watershed Mark said...

Toons/Mike:

Where is your indignation for a "process" that does not gaurantee anything?

Capital Cost?
Financing?
Location?
Technology?
O&M?
Monthly service charge?
Guarantee(s)?

Think "equal protection" here. See what I mean?

Watershed Mark said...

Mike:
We are not "selling" RECLAMATORS. The RECLAMATOR IS used by AES DES LLC to provide a service.

Rodger Briggs, Harvey Packard and the WaterBoard have a claim against them which will be converted to civil suit on or about March 21 st. 2008 for saying what you are about the RECLAMATOR.

As for the other concerns you raised regarding "permitting" the LOSTDEP RECLAMATOR continues on step.

Be patient their should be some "breaking news" soon.

Mike said...

Reclamator is NOT another septic tank, it's a SERVICE

Fluids flushed or dumped down the drain into the Reclamator and then dumped into the soil is NOT a DISCHARGE of WASTE

We're all going to be issued new dictionaries by AES DES LLC

The State RWQCB will bow down to Saint Mark

Watershed Mark said...

Technology and the laws which provide for its promulgation and use make it possible.

Besides "we" need the "NEWater"...

You don't need a new dictionary, the old one works just fine. You might want to check out Porter-Cologne or USC 33/26 for "definitions" as these "laws" are what "constrains" the WaterBoard to what a discharge "is" and what a discharge "is not".

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

mark, I have no indignation as the process is ongoing. I anticipate none in the future. We have been given educated estimates as to the costs on things, which is all anyone should expect at this stage. Were we given more, I'd be highly suspicious. At the end of a process the community will know a lot more than it does now. Then we get an advisory vote. Then we will get a sewer - type or which location will be of far less importance than ending this war.

We have a lot more guarantees with a County that has done numerous wastewater treatment facilities than two guys that blow into Los Osos claiming to be saviors with next to nothing to back that up. Your "guarantees" might as well be written with disappearing ink, as your credibility is nil.

You dis the County for no answers, then you make this statement - "…there are many others who will be involved in the start-up/ initial financing. " So you aren't exactly showing us signed contracts with lenders, are you?

I have a feeling your case will be laughed out of court.

Watershed Mark said...

BREAKING NEWS!!!

The RECLAMATOR is now connected to the LOCSD community system.

This system has had a CDO in place since November 19, 1999.

Watershed Mark said...

We have been given educated estimates as to the costs on things, which is all anyone should expect at this stage..............Demand more, DEMAND INTEGRITY! The county is spending money it does not have, studying a project it may very well never build, for one reason or another. FACT

Were we given more, I'd be highly suspicious...............Would you buy a home the same way the county is trying to buy a sewer? A car? A steak? A head of lettuce? A vacation? Where would you get the money to fund that kind of "process"? What if the purchase was never made? See what I mean?

At the end of a process the community will know a lot more than it does now. .......The LOSTDEP RECLAMATOR Solution is "best". But that is already known, now...FACT.

Then we get an advisory vote. .........A feel good measure, that will have no effect on the process. FACT.

Then we will get a sewer - type or which location will be of far less importance than ending this war. ...............The Water War is just beginning, here and now. FACT.

We have a lot more guarantees with a County that has done numerous wastewater treatment facilities than two guys that blow into Los Osos claiming to be saviors with next to nothing to back that up. Your "guarantees" might as well be written with disappearing ink, as your credibility is nil. .............Please itemize the county guarantees, if there are any.

You dis the County for no answers, then you make this statement - "…there are many others who will be involved in the start-up/ initial financing. ........FACT.

" So you aren't exactly showing us signed contracts with lenders, are you?........where are the county's signed letters of intent?

I have a feeling your case will be laughed out of court......................................................................wanna bet?

Sewertoons said...

Which one? Who paid for it? When was this approved by the Board?

Sewertoons said...

mark says:
"…where are the county's signed letters of intent?"

That's not the point. The POINT was YOU are calling the kettle black from inside your own black pot - or is it from inside a Wrecklamator?

Watershed Mark said...

Sewertoons said...

Which one?......... Bayridge Estates


Who paid for it?..........We did.


When was this approved by the Board?............ See Porter-Cologne 13301, 13301.1 and 11360 Manner of Compliance. Toons when you read and understand the law you should be able to realize what the "Board" Rodger Briggs and Harvey Packard can and cannot do. Laws prevent folks from "making stuff up" as they go along. We like the law. It supports Technology and its promulgation and use. It also prevents the discharge pollution while conserving water, energy, time and money. Who will stand against those benefits? More importantly, why? Let's watch and see...

10:03 PM, March 02, 2008

Sewertoons said...

mark says:
"…where are the county's signed letters of intent?"

That's not the point........Yes it is. When there are laws which must be followed. The engineering and regulatory "societies" are now aware of the laws for "pretreatment" and Best Available Demonstrated Control Technology"-BADCT, Alternative Technology and Economic considerations (see Briggs response & Fraudulent use of 219 by SLO CO on www.NOwastewater.com & FACTS on www.NOwastewater.blogspot.com for starters ) Try to relax and let events unfold. You are watching history in the making. Los Osos/Baywood Park cannot now be considered the "obstructionists". News of the RECLAMATOR installation is being heard "far and wide".


The POINT was YOU are calling the kettle black from inside your own black pot - or is it from inside a Wrecklamator?...... I am "calling for" the county and state to abide by the law. Aren't you?

Watershed Mark said...

Generally, “there’s no big-ticket thing” among the suggestions, Wilcox said, something that would save tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/story/292883.html

Here's another "survey" question:

The County's $6 million dollar (so far) study of a sewerage project by law it cannot build is a "big ticket thing", isn't it?

Spectator said...

To Watershed Mark:

If I remember correctly Baywood Estates has a community septic system, where the homes are hardpiped into a community septic system and leach field. I believe this is administered by the LOCSD, and the property owners charged through taxes especially for them for the costs of administration, maintenance, and future renewal.

1. Is it true the LOCSD gave you permission to install your reclamator IF you put it down at the end of the system? This would be a great test and it would be easy to test discharge or what ever you want to call it, if you piped access to what was coming out of the reclamator.

2. Or did you just put it on one of the houses?

3. Nobody seems to know where you put your equipment.

In any case, congrats on putting you money where your mouth is and we await testing data.

Watershed Mark said...

To Watershed Mark:

If I remember correctly Baywood Estates has a community septic system, where the homes are hardpiped into a community septic system and leach field.....CORRECT.
I believe this is administered by the LOCSD, and the property owners charged through taxes especially for them for the costs of administration, maintenance, and future renewal.... CORRECT



1. Is it true the LOCSD gave you permission to install your reclamator IF you put it down at the end of the system?.... Not they have not, yet.
This would be a great test and it would be easy to test discharge or what ever you want to call it, if you piped access to what was coming out of the reclamator...... CORRECT.

2. Or did you just put it on one of the houses? ....CORRECT, at Tom Murphy's house.

3. Nobody seems to know where you put your equipment. ......Not "nobody" A Tribune reporter did an interview with Tom Murphy on Sunday and a Tribune photo journalist took a couple of photos on Saturday.

In any case, congrats on putting you money where your mouth is and we await testing data.......Jon, I appreciate your thoughtful remarks and will keep every interested party posted.

Mike said...

Unless there is some significant inflow/outflow recording instrumentation proving your claims, the legality of "discharge" might be subject to future discourse in a court hearing.

This appears to be an expensive throwing down a gauntlet in a challege to the authority of County and State in a number of areas. It will be interesting to see the outcome, but then you have lots of money to fight the coming battles.

GVD said...

To Watershed Mark. I was curious if you needed a county building permit to install your new tank ? What became of the old tank and will you be required to decomission it? Sometimes people work on weekends to avoid county inspections. I can't imagine you doing anything like that.

Sewertoons said...

gvd, his house is in Bayridge where there is a community septic system. He has apparently disconnected himself from that and put in his Wrecklamator, with I suppose its own leach field! I'd like to know if he will continue to pay the fee that is charged residents for the community system and if a word or two on that topic is included in the CC&R's of this house.

Yes, I have heard of the avoidance technique, too. I'm sure mark wouldn't think of disobeying the law.

Watershed Mark said...

The cat is now out of the bag and is looking for "tongue". There was "no current comment" from the WaterBoard or County, in this "piece of the story"...

The Tribune is getting closer to the real story. Facts/Fraudulent use of the 218/Briggs response, for starters...
David Duggan's short subject/documentary "Assault on Los Osos" is something Sona should see and might want to report on, as David lays out the facts, mightily.

The technology and the law which supports its promulgation and use, including the "recording of public meetings" will assist in the efforts to hold those who want to serve the public accountable.

Who will stand against federally compliant technology which produces NEWater and for leaky polluting sewerage?
I cannot wait to find out.

God Bless America.

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/story/293691.html

Sewertoons said...

mark, maybe you can address how your device will address the loss of water out into the bay from the ground water table being too high due to the use of septic tanks?

*PG-13 said...

For the Panama thread: There was an interesting NPR segment on Morning Edition today discussing the Panama Canal and how it is being effected by global warming. I'm sure Spectator knows all about this but it was news to me. The Panama Canal uses huge amounts of fresh water collected in a chain of man-made lakes to float the boats thru the canal. But the original canal is too narrow for many of today's ships so they're digging another set of deeper and wider canals requiring still more huge gobs of collected water. It was an interesting piece. Listen to it here Shallow Water Ahead for Panama Canal.


ShedHead said > We like the law. It supports Technology and its promulgation and use.

..... over and over again. Law, technology and promulgation. Law, technology and promulgation. Toss in a few Power to People's, some cryptic references to the 14th Amendment and never any question answered (but every query sent back as still more questions) and there you have it: the last car of this trainwreck barreling over the cliff. This is the first time I've ever heard established law is a friend to emerging technologies. It seldom plays out that way. In my experience laws tend to chase the new not lead them. And promulgation? At first I found that an interesting - and overused term - in this case. But then I looked it up and ....

> prom·ul·gate (prml-gt, pr-mlgt)
> 1. To make known (a decree, for example) by public declaration; announce officially.
> 2. To put (a law) into effect by formal public announcement.


Gotta say, if Mark does anything he promulgates!

Spectator said...

To PG-13: Panama story.

Global warming? I think you are not getting the other side of the story. It would be wise not to confuse global warming with local weather.

Use earth.goodle.com and take a look at the size of Gatun lake. If the ice at the poles melts, you are looking at more surface area of the oceans from the melting of ice on the continents. Increased evaporation, and more rain. More water EVERYWHERE in 200 years. But it is unwise to correlate this with local weather.

Of greater concern is global cooling, and many scientists feel that we are is such a cycle due to decreased radiation from the sun, which can be measured, rather than the total temperature of the earth, which cannot.

Mars is cooling. It can be measured scientifically by compiling infa red radiation from the planet.

While the global warming advocates talk of glacier retraction and loss of ice from the north pole, the south pole is increasing it's ice depth and ice pack in winter.

Please don't worry about northern polar bears starving. They are smart and adaptable. They already have become garbage bears and pests in many areas of human habitation.

Worry about an overpopulation of people. Especially illegal aliens in the US, sucking our tax dollars dry, and sending earnings away to primarily Mexico.

The world can only produce so much food and so much energy. And we have stupid laws which prevent us in sunny California from selling excess solar energy to the power companies from solar roofs, thus making them economically impractical to construct. But the power companies want to construct a BIG solar plant at Carissa Plains. Idiotic.

Worry about stupid US government actions such as grain production to produce alcohol for energy, pushing up the cost of bread, meat, and everything using grain, etc. Look to the price of wheat.

Next year a lot of people will starve when the countries, where they live, cannot get grain at prices they can afford. Already most of the strife on the African continent is about food resources.

Watershed Mark said...

RIGHT ON JON!

Watershed Mark said...

13- Thanks for the "shedhead" nickname... "watershedmark/markheadwaters".

One problem withall media outlets regarding the facts is that most have an agenda, but attempt to pass themselves off as not having one. "fair and balananced"...we report you decide, America's newsroom. Ask Jon what CNN looks like in Panama. It is an entirely different "show" altogether.

Comments like "But the original canal is too narrow for many of today's ships" sound good but are not "fact". In fact something on the order of 90-95% of all ship in the world fit throught the canal.

The "supertankers and other craft being built will not. China is a large user of the canal and in fact have control of it and they let the Panamaian Government "operate" it. This is a great thing for the locals especially women who have traditionalty not beena part of this "profesional workforce".

OK the expansion will accomplish at least two important things when it is completed, first it will allow for the big ships to use the passage conserving energy and time and second the new locks will recycle/reuse/conserve the fresh water it takes to operate the lock. Something that was not on the "radar" in 1913.

Also, when the French began their work to create the canal they were simple going to hack a trench from the Atlantic to the Pacific.
With 2 foot tides in the Atlantic and 20 foot tides in the Pacific the sailors of that day "had to be tough" because the "engineers" were ___________.

So you see how thechnology and new information shapes the world, italways has and it always will.

While you are listening to the radio today you might want to tune into today's SLO BOS meeting @ 2:00 open comment session. Jon you can get it live or watch it when you get back from fishing @ http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/clerk/BoardofSupervisors/Live_and_archived_meetings_online.htm

Centrifical force in Panama has not impeded your "thinking"! You are on a fast track, brother. Almost a thousand MPH...Good on you.

Watershed Mark said...

Sewertoons said...
mark, maybe you can address how your device will address the loss of water out into the bay from the ground water table being too high due to the use of septic tanks?

Before I consider answering this question, I have a question for you: Does your asking it demonstrate that you accept that the RECLAMATOR eliminates the discharge of pollutants?

(I am thinking about saltwater intrusion and deceasig the demand on the aquifer through on-site reuses like toilet flushing, washing off your driveway..in a few years after the CHD has had time to study the RECLAMATOR in action)( Hydraulic balancing between the upper and lower aquifer is a good method that will eliminate the need for 40+miles of leaky polluting pipe as it would bedone "locally and stealthally(sp/word?) on the cheap)( These are some thoughts, not my final answer, to the tune of Jepordy)

I LOVE LO! WE LOVE IT!

Watershed Mark said...

Mike said...
Unless there is some significant inflow/outflow recording instrumentation proving your claims, the legality of "discharge" might be subject to future discourse in a court hearing.

This appears to be an expensive throwing down a gauntlet in a challege to the authority of County and State in a number of areas. It will be interesting to see the outcome, but then you have lots of money to fight the coming battles.

12:26 PM, March 03, 2008

Mike,
Stay tuned. The LOSTDEP RECLAMATOR Solition continues on step.

Churadogs said...

Spectator sez:"Worry about stupid US government actions such as grain production to produce alcohol for energy, pushing up the cost of bread, meat, and everything using grain, etc. Look to the price of wheat."

Additional worry re "corn?" Disease sweeping through the corn fields and/or drought caused by shifting weather patterns due to global warming/climate change. Remember the Irish potato famine? Problems of monoculture crops.

*PG-13 said...

Spectator, I agree with most everything you said in response to my post about the Panama Canal story. When I listened to it I too thought it a bit of a stretch that the story tried to correlate changes in local weather patterns with Global Warming. But I just supplied the link. I didn't write the story. And I wasn't trying to make any other statement except to note the major theme of the story: That they are digging another larger & deeper canal and that water to run the canal is a concern. Did you listen to the story? Gatun Lake may be big. But so in the amount of water the canal uses. And getting bigger. I'll leave it to those much closer to the story to do the math.

Global warming, global cooling, more rain, less ice, whatever. Despite the mass of research and all the experts running around pushing their particular line I'm not sure anybody really knows what is happening, what might be happening or what might eventually happen. The ecosystem is diverse, the mechanisms complex and our understanding pretty elementary. I think one thing we can probably all agree on though is the times, they are a'changing. We may not know exactly how they're changing and where they're going and what the fall-out might be but whatever fall-out there is is going to fall on us. So we're gonna have to change with the changes. So we best be paying attention.

And I agree that government and bureaucratic inefficiencies are the bane of the obvious solutions. In a previous life I was an engineer at the Solar Enegry Research Institute (now NREL). We were doing cutting edge research in all things solar, biomass, building design, energy efficiency, etc and passing the tech over to the private sector. That was ~25 years ago before Ronnie was elected and immediately de-funded all such research. We are only now getting back to where we were then. You're preaching to the choir when you rant about the idiocy of our energy options.

Shark Inlet said...

Jon,

You should listen to the story. They point out that in drought years, the canal can't handle all the shipping traffic they do in normal years and that because global warming is predicted to increase the frequency of El Nino years which are associated with dought in Panama ... This doesn't mean that these predictions will come true, but they seem to be based on solid analyses from what I can understand.


No arguments on energy policies ... however, I would like to point out that the "free market" doesn't always lead to the societal optimum ... the same goes with laws by legislatures.


Economists argue that we ought to "internalize the externalities" which would mean that the cost individuals pay for goods should correspond to total cost of production, including societal cost. In this case, one could argue that the corn subsidies to growers ought to be added back into the price of Ethanol.

Along those lines, agricultural subsidies should probably only be for "healthy" foods like vegetables and not for corn and soybeans which tend to end up largely in far less healthy foods. Read Michael Pollan's book "The Omnivore's Dilemma" for more info. A seriously interesting read!

Why is the US so messed up? Probably because corporations and various special interests are far better at getting their way with legislation than are the rest of us.

Is this bad? To the extent that the market where prices reflect real costs is being distorted, it is.


As always, if Ron would like to argue with what I've written, I welcome his comments. I also note that when he offered to debate and I said something to the effect of "sure, as long as you're willing to discuss things related to the recall candidates, their platform and actions as well as the pre 2004 time period" Ron did not reply. Perhaps he's busy.

Watershed Mark said...

13- In a previous life I was an engineer at the Solar Enegry Research Institute (now NREL).

Come on out of that closet, it's a beautiful day!

Another Mount St. Helen type of "natural emission" will reconfigure the whole green house gas equation at least the scientific portion of the issue. Facts rarely get in the way of certain agendas...

So 13, you were a government subsidized engineer, who would have 'thunk' it? Are you on a government pension? Say it ain't so...

Watershed Mark said...

Ms.. Maria Kelly,

When I asked you if you were wearing your TAC Hat when you asked for a copy on the 1994 NSF Report which was delivered to the State of California in 1994/5 you said no.

Today at the BOS public comment you stated you were wearing your TAC hat.

You will not be able to have it both ways. Are you asking as a TAC Member or are you asking as a private citizen?

Fish or cut bait.

Mike Green said...

Sharkey Bubbled:" Read Michael Pollan's book "The Omnivore's Dilemma" for more info. A seriously interesting read!"
Yes indeed a very good read!
Also his "Botany of Desire"
Mark, did Tom get an individual NOV? or is his a communal one shared with all the other's at Bayridge?

Watershed Mark said...

Green: Bayridge Estates, Vista del Oro and Fire station have had CDO's in place since November 19, 1999.

When compared with the individual CDO's issued last year, not very fair or equal treatment under the law.

While canvassing BE and VdO very few knew they had a CDO in place against them...

Sewertoons said...

mark, I saw the BOS meeting today on channel 21 and Maria was speaking as a private citizen/homeowner. Watch the rerun off the website and you will see.

Anyway, what difference does it make on the hats? If you believed in your device you would want EVERYONE to see the FULL report. If you don't allow us to see it, we regard you as someone trying to hide something.

Also, the report came out in 1995. This was then on the prototype Wrecklamator? Not the one you just installed at your house? If that data was on the old model, you will need to resubmit data on the new one to get a NEW NSF report. Fish or cut bait yourself.

So, can I get a full copy of that NSF report, even if old, off your website? If not, WHY NOT?

Sewertoons said...

mark says regarding BE & VdeO,"very few knew they had a CDO in place against them..."

That is because the CDO is against the CSD which has the job of maintaining the community's systems.

Mike Green said...

So, Bayridge Estates, (motto, blue IS a haircolor) did NOT receive individual Notice of Violations?
Is that right?

Watershed Mark said...

Toons: Maria put on her TAC hat dfuring the BOS meeting today. My comments are when she requested a copy on line last week, when she held on to citiaen hat with both hands when questioned.

I see you do not
understsand "biology" and system design.

The NSF is third party verification that the BESTEP 10 denitrified "beautifully". The process is proven even if it was 100 years ago.

A RECLAMATOR is the BESTEP UF-900 or A BESTEP 10 with a membrane.

Giving you a copy of the entire report would not be ethical as you could copy it ad nausea. See what I mean.

The State of California has a copy, so your accusation that we are "hiding something" doesn't hol;d water.

I love raw fish and fishing. So I know how cut bait...

Sewertoons said...

Fine mark, have it your way. I will call NSF tomorrow and see if I can get a copy there.

Mike Green said...

Did the individual homeowner's in Bayridge Estates receive individual Notices of Violation?

This is not a hand grenade answer.

Did Tom Murphy receive a NOV?

Watershed Mark said...

MG:

I just emailed you the 10.19.1999 LOCSD cease and desist orders. I am still looking for the NOV's which should have preceeded the CDO's.

I was not "around" in 1999 si I cannot say what was sent at that time. Tom did not receive an individual NOV/CDO/CAO.

It is interesting that the County permitted the septic tanks (all of them)with the waterboard's permitsion(new word)that are the subject of 83-13 based NOV/CDO enforcement action.

I sent you a copy of 83-13 which I received from Matt Thompson last week. Take a look at "Where as #13"- State Health Department Drinking Water Standard Limit 45mg/l Nitrate.

The fact that the CCRWQCB keeps throwing this doc up as their "flag" demonstrates the need for a current evaluation.



If anyone has them please let me know.

Watershed Mark said...

GVD said...
To Watershed Mark. I was curious if you needed a county building permit to install your new tank ? What became of the old tank and will you be required to decomission it? Sometimes people work on weekends to avoid county inspections. I can't imagine you doing anything like that.

GVD,
I did not wish to over look you this morning. My apologies.

Please see www.NOwastewater.blogspot.com for clarification regarding "permits".

Best,

Mark

Churadogs said...

Inlet sez:"Sort of like you, who only give half of the story, since you separate people from corporations."

This is sorta like what the New Yorker article I mentioned is getting at. IF goods and services and things were tagged for the "real" price, and the "free market" actually was freer than it now is, I think you'd see an amazing change is how we live. This is much of what Amory Lovins is about -- put a price oin "waste" and "pollution" and it becomes a valuage commodity and suddenly the whole paradigm shifts. Stick the "real" cost of ethanol onto a gallon of the stuff and suddenly things wouldn't look so rosy. Ditto for the "real" cost of a gallon of gas, or electricity via gas-fired pland or solar. etc.

the trick is to get the "real" cost right. Once you did that, the market would take care of matters, barring any unintended consequences that would have to be looked out for.

Spectator said...

To: Watershed.

The Republic of Panama owns the canal. A Chinese corporation administers it along with the railroad that crosses the isthmus with containers from Balboa to Colon.

CNN: I can think of no Cable News outfit that is more Anti-American than CNN. All they do is criticize. Especially their International Spanish version.
The Spanish speakers here call it the "Chavez News Network". In the USA it was called the "Clinton News Network", but now, since they seem to have switched to Obama, the English feed is called: "The Communist News Network". However, since Fox News is not available on my TV here, I am forced to watch CNN. I think their election coverage with the "wolfman" has been pretty fair and balanced, but compared to what.

To: El Tiburon

I am renting and stuck with 128K max download. Can't play stuff from the web. No u-tube, BOS meetings, or stuff from Drudge or Fox or whatever. My new house here will have 2 MEG.

Nobody listens to poor individuals unless they are in a theater and scream "fire".

To Ann:

I am glad sharky agrees with me:
'Inlet sez:"Sort of like you, who only give half of the story, since you separate people from corporations."' I agree with the rest of your comment also.

I especially would like to look at the cost to goods and services added by litigation from trial lawyers.

Watershed Mark said...

Jon:
You are correct, my bad...

Jimmy Carter and Panamanian President Moscoso led ceremonies in Panama City. (12/14/99)


The U.S. and Panama unofficially transfer ownership of the Panama Canal. (12/13/99)

Sewertoons said...

mark said:
"The NSF is third party verification that the BESTEP 10 denitrified "beautifully".

How do we know? We DON'T, because you WON'T show us. You paid NSF to verify something in 1995. They won't release the results. Pages 2 though 51 will confirm or deny how great or not great the Big Wreck is but YOU WON'T SHOW US.

To which NSF/ANSI standard did you test? Will you tell us that? Did you test the whole thing or just components of it?

For NSF/ANSI STANDARD 40 Residential Wastewater Treatment Systems, NSF/ANSI STANDARD 46 Evaluation of Components and Devices Used in Wastewater Treatment Systems, NSF CRITERIA C9 Evaluation of Special Processes, Components or Devices Used in Treating Wastewater and NSF/ANSI STANDARD 245
Wastewater Treatment Systems - Nitrogen Reduction --- 47 manufacturers were approved and 457 products were approved. Yours is not among them. (These listings were last updated on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 at 4:15 AM Eastern Time.)

So mark, why is the Wrecklamator not certified? What is on pages 2-51?

Shark Inlet said...

Ann,

In your 6:05am comment of March 5 you quote me as saying "Sort of like you, who only give half of the story, since you separate people from corporations." However, I did not write this. Perhaps it was someone else.

Watershed Mark said...

Toons:
Sit tight.

*PG-13 said...

A little late but I gotta set the record straight.

ShedHead said > So 13, you were a government subsidized engineer, who would have 'thunk' it? Are you on a government pension? Say it ain't so...

As you wish. It ain't so. No, I'm not drawing a government pension. I'm not sure what you're image of work, working for a cause, or working for retirement might be but whatever it is it is clearly not based in the reality of my world. Over the years my friends and I and many co-workers have spent working on alternative energy and conservation there has been one constant in our careers: No Job Security. Because of government energy policies which subsidizes oil, coal and nuclear there has been little opportunity in the private sector for competing alternatives. Until fairly recently - at least in this country - outside of academia the only opportunities to work in alternative energy and conservation were some very few jobs in government research. And even these few jobs ebb like the tides with each new administration. You probably aren't surprised over the job swapping that occurs in Washington DC when a new administration takes over. You might be surprised, however, at how much research is cut (read: stopped) and jobs lost in the alternative energy sector during these transitions. Believe me, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today and we wouldn't be waging wars for oil if even a third the research in alternate energy production and conservation that has been sacrificed by political gerrymandering had been allowed to continue. I daresay those would have been some of the best pensions ever paid. Sadly, they're not being paid. We are however paying hugely for ........ (you fill in the blanks)

Watershed Mark said...

13: I think your discussion is more "R" rated, but standards are always sliding...and I can take it.

I'm glad from a taxpayers point of view that you are noy on a government pension and will keep a good thought that you are doing or find something that makes you happy which you can "earn" at doing.
Finding something you like means you never have to work for a living.

As far as blaming one administration or another what about "Congress"? The Adminstration cannot write a budget, only Congress can and there are no "term limits" for these budget writers.

You have a front row center seat at the "Government" in action show.
The LOSTDEP RECLAMATOR Solution.

If you didn't receive todays mail, get it, or you are really going to be out of the loop. The mail I will be sending out over the next few days will be very useful to those who are still reading with an open mind. For everyone else they can stick with the county's sewerage study process. I continue to be interested how they will pay for all that resource of value coming out of the RECLAMATOR...I hope they will choose to study that, as long as they are not studying, exfiltration, carbon footprint and Native Anmerican Burial Site disturbance among other "things"...they should have the time and money.

Watershed Mark said...

Thoyteen- We are in the mess we are in today largely due to there are so few "citizens" who think clearly about what it means to be a citizen, believe me.

You seem to think that "government" is a responsible substitue for "personal responsibilty". I don't.

Good thing we live in the greatest nation on God's green earth.

May God Bless America and you, now "pass the ammunition"...