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Friday, April 24, 2009

KapBLUMP, UMP, UMP. . . .

Uh-oh, methinks it’s the sound of Dan Blackburn dropping more shoes on the floor over at www.calcoastnews.com/news.php?viewStory=172160 titled “Los Osos Sewer Project Tainted by “Expired” Crime.”

He’s posted more information that started with former CDS Director, Lisa Schicker’s letter of complaint given to the BOS concerning issues with Montgomery Watson Harza, a company that was short-listed on the new sewer project. Dan’s story expands to include alleged illegality when former CSD’s District Manager, Bruce Buell’s was told by then-former interim district manger Paavo Orgren to “backdate” the CSD’s contract with Montgomery Watson Harza. Continues the story, “Chief Deputy District Attorney Steve Brown, in a response to citizen complaints, acknowledged in 2006 that “falsification of a public record by a public employee is a felony,” and that a criminal act relating to the backdating apparently had occurred. But Brown declined further investigation by determining that a three-year statute of limitation had expired.”

The story notes that Supervisor Frank Meacham is asking for further information and a ruling from the county counsel.

Here’s Mother Calhoun’s take on what the outcome of all this will be: 1.) “C’mon Jake, it’s Chinatown. 2.) Something is illegal ONLY if a District Attorney somewhere declares it to be illegal and decides to prosecute. If he/she declines to prosecute, for whatever reason, it’s not a “crime.” Plus, if you commit a “crime” and hide it until the clock runs out, then whatever you did also isn’t a crime and everyone can pretend it didn’t happen.

What’s weird about the MWH contract backdating is this: If a contract has been illegally backdated, is the contract still valid, or is it considered a fraudulent contract and so is void? And if a company knows a contract is or has been or knows is about to be backdated and ignores that falsity, is that the kind of company that should be on the favored short-list for a humongous County project? Maybe the county counsel will tell us.

Planning Commission Starts To Work

On Thursday morning, the County Planning Commission started the long process of weighing in on the Hideous Sewer Project. Chairperson Sarah Christie runs a tight ship and organized the presentation and public comment into coherent blocks in order to encourage various citizens and groups to keep their comments focused so that their comments and concerns can remain clear to the Commissioners. Good idea, since this project is so complex and the community and others involved groups did their homework and had plenty of thoughtful questions and concerns. The Commission will meet again Thursday, April 30 to continue the process.

Some highlights that the Commission may be looking at further :

1. Clearly, everyone is pushing towards tertiary treatment. Think that’ll be a done deal.

2. However, since the original project didn’t include tertiary, this clear new direction raised some key questions: a) why throw tertiary treated water away on trans-evaporative spray fields when tertiary water has a lot more uses available than simply being “disposed of.” b) if ag use and urban reuse are planned, don’t need to meet the RWQCB’s nitrate levels by expensive removal processes, since nitrogen is a valuable resource for ag exchange or reuse on urban parks, golf-courses, which could both save money and could result in a different treatment method, i.e. ponds versus energy intensive BioLAC & etc.

3. If spay fields aren’t now necessary or prudent or the only solution for “disposal,” then may not need to use all the Tonini property, could locate the treatment plant on Giacomezzi, run pipes to smaller spray fields, and/or holding ponds, or be ready for ag exchange, even on parts of the Tonini land, thereby increasing ag use rather than decreasing ag use, thereby reducing necessity for mitigation costs & etc.

4. Clearly expressed majority of folks don’t want to dump water out of the basin. The rep for Golden State Water asked that ALL the water be re-imported back to the basin and made available to the water purveyors, but how that would work wasn’t explained. Sell it? Give it to them so they can resell to the taxpayers who paid to clean it up for reuse in the first place? Put it . . . where?

5. Look again at the Gorby Property and the alleged Creek Basin Alluvial area that supposedly can cache water underground for recharge, could use that for summer storage and Broderson for winter recharge with the water also there for ag exchange.

6. Repeated questions as to why the county shorted The Process by taking STEP off the plate before design-build bids would be allowed. (This raised an interesting point. Chairman Christie noted that the Planning Commission is working from a document and a Process that includes STEP through to the end, so she had to ask if the BOS had pre-empted the Commission’s responsibility and authority in this “process” and/or whether the document they were working from is still valid and “legal,” since that short-listing suddenly changed what they are, under law, supposed to be doing. It was also noted by one speaker that shorting the Process could lead to a lawsuit for violating CEQA rules & etc. And noted by another speaker that she had called the (utterly Green) Rocky Mountain Institute about this project and was told that SLO County is “too hostile” to anything “green/design-build/anything NOT traditional gravity sewers & etc) and they wouldn’t set foot here. And since there was a recent Design/Build conference here, followed by the very interesting shorting of the Process that would cut out genuine Design/Build (in which all options are on the table, let the best technology determining the final project, versus shorting requirements to such a degree that the project is, in reality, already “designed” and really only needs a “bid,” – heh-heh -- not true design/build.) Additional claims that this project favors certain contractors, is a “rigged process” bordering on “public corruption” (reference to the MWH story posted above?) and a Process that was purposely narrowed, & etc.

All of which then raises more questions that the Planning Commission is stuck with: Are they playing with a full deck or have they been preempted and handed only certain cards and patted on the head and told to “decide” whether they’d pick the four of clubs or the duce of diamonds and when they ask,”Hey, where’s the full deck?” they’re patted on the head and told, “Sorry, no can do, shut up and give us our permit and stop asking annoying questions already.” Sigh.)

7. Sludge was a timely question since the County still doesn’t have a county-wide sludge plan in place and, according to both the Tribune and New Times, likely won’t have that figured out for another year or more. What was once considered a useful “biosolid” for ag use, is now being shunned as a hazardous waste that needs to be secured in sealed landfills & etc. (STEP tanks and pond systems “digest” most biosolids thereby leaving way less sludge to be disposed of than other treatment systems, but since STEP and ponds are off the table, the Planning commission will likely have to go whistle if they want to get clear answers regarding sludge at this point.)

8. Interesting issue raised concerning undeveloped lots within the PZ. Fear that waiting for the basin wide/PZ mitigation plans with Fish and Wildlife could take YEARS to do collectively, (for the project as a whole) hence property owners with vacant lots waiting to build their dream homes and their heirs and their heirs, yea unto the tenth generation, a la Bleak House, will all be dead of old age before that will happen. One speaker suggested letting vacant lot owners pay a bundle for the sewer assessment now, and then also pay a bundle directly to F&W to mitigate their lot only and then go guild build, thereby putting more money into the project right now. Another speaker, representing vacant lot-folks, made it clear that building in the basin/PZ will depend on the availability of water so it’s critical that the basin’s water NOT be taken out and dumped, thereby making build out all but impossible for everyone with an undeveloped lot. & etc.

9. Julie Tacker, former CSD Director, stressed that water is the #1 issue, not nitrates or sewage, so shouldn’t remove water outside the basin. Said not to issue a permit until we get a co-equal analysis for alternate disposal ideas, since right now, the county’s only plan is spray fields, perhaps it would help to take a look at alternate disposal plans, especially since tertiary now seems a given.

10. Scott Kimura, resident of the Los Osos Valley, who has publicly opposed moving the sewer plant out of town, nonethess supports the Tonini project and it’s tie in with future ag water use, which makes me wonder if, with tertiary water now all but a given, if farmers out in the valley, including one organic farmer, are re-thinking what a lot of farmers in Monterrey County and Watsonville have re-thought when they voluntarily signed on to get all the treated wastewater they could get their hands on (likely with all those nice nitrates?) for their fields?

11. And finally Alon Pearlman asked the One Huge Question: Who is steward of the aquifer? Now THAT’S a can of worms that very few are brave enough to open, but it is a critical question to keep in mind since It’s The Water, Stupid, and if agencies keep get sidetracked to their own narrowed focus (nitrates, ag use, Williamson Acts, development planning & etc) it’s easy to lose track of the Big Picture. Is it possible that if everyone keeps focused on total full cycle --aquifer to tap to toilet to ground to aquifer to tap again and/or sky to roof to green driveways to green streets to flood basins to ocean/aquifer to sky again – in other words full cycle use and reuse – then the proper solutions will arrive?

Sure will. Question is, will we be open to seeing the answers instead of only seeing our presupposed, pre-determined, short-listed, pre-selected plans? We’ll see.

Planning Commission will continue, April 30, Thursday, starting a 8:45 a.m.

93 comments:

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron said...

Ann wrote:

"Something is illegal ONLY if a District Attorney somewhere declares it to be illegal and decides to prosecute."Wanna hear something very, very interesting on that?

I was talking with Jarret Gran of the SLO County DAs office recently, and he told me that the DAs office doesn't really instigate their own investigations, they only investigate cases that are brought to them by a "lead agency."

In Los Osos's case, that would be the Sheriff's Department.

When I checked their web site last year, the Basy-Osos Kiwaniis Club had 45 members... two of them were Pandora Nash-Karner and Martin Basti, of the SLO County Sheriff's Department.

I asked Gran if he knew someone named Martin Basti, and Gran said, "Yes."

Basti was also the commander at the Los Osos substation before transferring down the the South Coast station.

Then, there's this from a Nash-Karner letter from Sept. 2005:

"Urgent message from Los Osos Citizens of the Year

Dear Los Osos Residents, This letter comes to you from 20 Los Osos Citizens of the Year: (including) Martin Basti... Pandora Nash-Karner...

... honored by the Los Osos/Baywood Chamber of Commerce as Citizens of the Year.

We reject the divisive campaign which will derail the only viable wastewater treatment project that meets State requirements and destroy our Community Services District when Regional Water Quality Control Board fines take effect. The effort to recall Gustafson, Hensley, and LeGros is another ruse to delay the project.
"

So, in Los Osos's case, apparently, something is illegal ONLY if Nash-Karner's first-name-basis friend and fellow Tri-W project supporter, Martin Basti, declares it to be illegal.

Great report, Ann.

I don't remember seeing anything on the Trib's web site this morning about the meeting.

Shark Inlet said...

Um ... Ron ...

Why don't you also tell us that because Pandora has donated roses to the KCBX fund drives that we should all stop listening to public radio because, after all, they're soooooo tainted by association with her that we should watch FOX News only.

My gosh ... don't you get it ... guilt by association is not guilt in any sense at all. Bill Ayers and the list of 205 known Communists working for the State Department and all that.

Ron, if all you have to say is that someone is on a list with Pandora or met her one time you should go back and learn a thing or two before exposing yourself as ... um ... less than thoughtful.

Watershed Mark said...

Ann wrote: “What’s weird about the MWH contract backdating is this: If a contract has been illegally backdated, is the contract still valid, or is it considered a fraudulent contract and so is void? And if a company knows a contract is or has been or knows is about to be backdated and ignores that falsity, is that the kind of company that should be on the favored short-list for a humongous County project? Maybe the county counsel will tell us.”

Self-policing of any group is also a conflict of interests. If any organization, such as a corporation or government bureaucracy, is asked to eliminate unethical behavior within their own group, it may be in their interest in the short run to eliminate the appearance of unethical behavior, rather than the behavior itself, by keeping any ethical breaches hidden, instead of exposing and correcting them. An exception occurs when the ethical breach is already known by the public. In that case, it could be in the group's interest to end the ethical problem to which the public has knowledge, but keep remaining breaches hidden.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Shark - didn't Ron state that he met Pandora? Doesn't that put HIM on the not-to-be-believed-and-tainted list too?

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,
So long as you are keeping a "the not-to-be-believed-and-tainted list":
What is the word on Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name"???

Watershed Mark said...

Ethics

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Ann writes,
"He’s posted more information that started with former CDS Director, Lisa Schicker’s letter of complaint given to the BOS concerning issues with Montgomery Watson Harza, a company that was short-listed on the new sewer project."

AND

"What’s weird about the MWH contract backdating is this: If a contract has been illegally backdated, is the contract still valid, or is it considered a fraudulent contract and so is void?"

Richard has said this before, and I'll restate it here:
Gee, do you think after the recall and those guys sitting upstairs going through every, single CSD record, and with all those documents being poured over in Gail's living room, if there was ONE, LITTLE SHREAD of evidence of wrongdoing, BWS would have been all over it and there would have been a lawsuit?

What does no lawsuit tell us? What does MWH having a claim STILL in the bankruptcy tell us? - it tells us that, gee, Lisa can be complaining about it if it makes her happy, but that it is simply MEANINGLESS.

GetRealOsos said...

Gee Shark,

You are always there for Pandora.

I still believe to this day that Pandora got the County off the hook by forming her CSD (Measure K) after the Prop 218 became law.

The USEPA told the County in 1994 that the project was too expensive and further testing needed to be done on the pollution issue. They said the tests were inconclusive.

The County knew they couldn't pull it off then.

A 218? The EPA saying to do further studies and look at alternative systems that cost less?

Gee, Pandora forms a new CSD, has the PZ pay for the sewer, sells Measure K talking about Prop 218 all over her material, and she KNEW the ponds needed more land than was available at Tri-W and the RWQCB said no to ponds there anyway.

That didn't stop her though, she knowingly lied to the community to get that CSD formed to save the County.

A CSD SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAD TO TAKE ON SUCH A HUGE PROJECT (especially when the County couldn't even handle it!!)

So, please, Shark, please stop defending Pandora. She's evil -- are you too?

GetRealOsos said...

Sewertoons,

You are one sad sack of shit to not address the conflict(s) of interest with MWH.

Paavo is in deep shit.

There is definitely an appearance of collusion and a huge conflict of interest.

But, all you can do is make light of Ron's comments about Pandora.

YOU NEVER address the real issues at hand, oh, but I forgot, your job is pimping for Paavo --

-- at least Lisa is honest which is more than I can say for your pack of rats.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

GRO -

Appearance of collusion? That's enough for a lawsuit? Well, I guess if you have nothing, it is the best you can do.

How about the appearance of stealing money by the Lisa Board? Oh no, wait a minute - that actually IS a lawsuit.

Honest? Maybe just stupid with the appearance of honesty - or maybe dishonest with the appearance of stupid --either way, it's not over yet.

Shark Inlet said...

GetReal,

If you think I am defending Pandora you are mistaken ... I am only saying that Ron goes waaaaay overboard when he sees Pandora behind every fart emitted by anyone working at the County ... or at the CCC or at the RWQCB ...

You also seem to have a special antipathy towards her. Others hold Gail in the same regard.

All in all I suspect that all those who would view life as a grand conspiracy are mistaken. It seems more likely to me that well intentioned people didn't correctly understand all the possible consequences of their actions before making choices.

Like, for example, the recall vote. I've recently heard several people saying that they regret voting for the recall because they felt hoodwinked ... that the recall candidates didn't actually have a plan to get the job done when they told us they did. None of these folks felt that they were told in advance of their vote for the recall that a recall would put the LOCSD into bankruptcy, would cause the County to take over the project and would likely raise the cost by $50-$100/month or more. Unintended consequence.

GetRealOsos said...

Shark,

You're getting off the subject of my post -- talking about the recall -- maybe the way Ron talks about Pandora...

Why don't YOU and/or Lynette address that the County couldn't pull it off in the 90's because of what the EPA letter stated to them (too expensive and testing needed) to the Prop 218 where the County had to drop the liens and have a vote!...nothing to say about that?!

Pandora didn't make any mistakes -- she knew exactly what she was doing.

Lynette,

I didn't say anything about a lawsuit. The conflict of interest is something for investigators to look at. And something that the BOS now is aware of.

Either you can't read or are plain stupid.

From all your comments to date, I'd say stupid and part of the corruption. You pimp for Paavo, you pimp for the most expensive sewer on the planet, you now pimp for MWH.

Unknown said...

GRO...

The statistics on sanity indicate that one out of every four persons are suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you...

Q&F...

GetRealOsos said...

Mike,

Thanks for the good wish of a stroke for me. You are one great human being. (Do people like you have souls?)

Of course, speaking the truth, putting together all the rotten pieces of a rotten scam for the most expensive sewer on the PLANET (when you can provide no proof of pollution to begin with) AND a sewer plant can't correct anything (ask Mark H. and Dan B.) just so YOU can cash in equals mental illness? ... yeah, right.

You HAVE to say that to dismiss anything I say. That's how you people work.

You are out of your mind if you think Paavo and Bruce G. can get away with all this forever. They will fall. All the ties to MWH are out there now, aren't they?

Unknown said...

GRO....

I don't see where I've ever wished you a stroke... I don't have to, you're doing it all by yourself... You apparently have such a non-life that all that remains is your hatered and stupidity... You really are quite insane over a sewer of all things... Q&F

GetRealOsos said...

Mike,

Yes, you've wished a stroke - quick and final.

I don't hate and am not stupid.

I know the $500 million dollar scam.

I fight for the truth, and the truth is you want to rid the town to make way for the rich.

You are a fool to think it will work out for you.

Isn't working in Cape Coral and won't work here.

Watershed Mark said...

Get Real Osos,

MIKE is all about the QUACK and FIB when he writes: "I don't see where I've ever wished you a stroke..."

He belongs with lyin' Lynette Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name" on "the not-to-be-believed-and-tainted list"...

I wonder how their drinking date turned out?

Unknown said...

GRO... I'm so pleased that you are reacting so well... You don't like anyone disagreeing with you do you....???

You are so full of hate that you must be choking on your own bile every time you think sewer...

Well guess what, you do not know what you are spouting... The County is going to build a sewer that most of us won't prefer and GRO, it's very much your fault... Everytime you fought the legal Tri-W project, everytime you fight anything the County puts out, all you are doing is trying to create more delay... But GRO, isn't that exactly what your buddies, Gail, Lisa, Julie and Ann and the rest of you crazies had for a Plan...

Hell, you are the epitome of stupidity yelling about the 218 vote and yet you never had a Plan or attempted a 218 vote... of course, there was nothing to vote on... and I find you so extremely stupid as you allowed the CSD to piss away our tax dollars on lawyers to fight Gail's crusade... she never put a dollar out of her pocket to fight her own battles...

No GRO, I did not wish you a stroke, but you know it's coming...

You are so full of your own hate that one is coming and your own doctor has told you so... and just so you don't get to feel like you are going to be thought of as some kind of martyr, realize there are others in this community who have been hurt financially and emotionally because of your vile attacks... I'm sure that gives you a warm feeling...

We could have had a very legal working WWT system by now... I hope you are taking your meds, because I won't let you get away without knowing that most of the community knows you are wrong...!!!! You should have listened to Stan, Gordon and Richard... they were and still are correct...

Churadogs said...

Amazing. Lots of interesting info and issues and quesitons presented at the Planning Commission and all some of you can do is chew on each other's ankles like fence-fighting dawgs and call each other names. Guess Kindergarten is now in session.

Unknown said...

Speaking of kindergarden... when is PZLDF going to pay their portion of the legal fees Ann...???

Unknown said...

Why is it Ann, that you can't be honest about the "agreement" between the previous CSD and PZLDF....??? Through that "agreement", you personally Ann, have "free" legal services to press a failed lawsuit... Isn't that dishonest on your part...????

You go on and on in your quest to derail, delay, any sewer any where that comes close to benefitting the people of Los Osos... You don't care about this community... You and your circle of extremists can't stand the fact that the pre-recall CSD actually fought through all the site, permit and design issues to build a WWTF... and your only reason was you didn't like where it was going... Even that was a smokescreen... You don't want any sewer and you have tried very hard to make the RWQCB out as the bad guys... This has never been about where a sewer should go, it's always been your personal fight against government...we see it in your petty lawsuits (which you did not pay for), in your scurring around stirring up the Lisa's and Julie's who are too stupid to realize how you have duped them... The whole community is going to end up paying for your dishonesty Ann... If anyone needs to be slapped with a fine by the State of Californin, it is you Ann... Keep egging on the clowns and trolls paradeing past the BOS and even Mecham will soon see where the real conspiracy begins...we already see through your deflections and deceit...

TCG said...

First, there is no need for a sewer system. Next, we need more nitrate testing. Next, we can plan and build a better and cheaper sewer than the County can so let's form a CSD and do it our way.

But that approach won't work no matter how cool, and cheap, it is so let's take our pond site and use it to build a real sewer system.

Then, let's sabatage, and stop, that approach and put the CSD into bankruptcy. And while all of this is going on, let's make sure that everyone gets threatened with CDO's.

Then, while the County steps up to help us out, let's make sure that we complain about every aspect of their approach--plant location, collection system, amount of initial groundwater recharge, etc., etc.

And now that a project has been determined that will work for us and stop the pollution, let's nit-pick about who the design/construction contractor will be (like that is our business). While we are at it, let's be sure to try to disparage the County manager who has worked tirelessly on our behalf to make the project possible, while also meeting his other significant County responsibilities.

ONLY IN LOS OSOS!

GetRealOsos said...

TCG and Mike,

We all love your spin.

We should have a say in contractors etc. because we are the ones who have to pay for it.

Our past experience with MWH shows they keep adding charges and keep running up the bill.

Paavo said himself the project could double in price. It will. Especially if they go with MWH!

Why do you two think it is so wise to put in a system that will do nothing for nitrates, yet will price 95% of people out of their homes for NOTHING?!

No, you two have a stake in the gravity MWH project. That's clear.

Besides, the most recent RWQCB study shows the pollution is from surface run-off and farms. Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

Now you don't believe the RWQCB either?

As far as the Bankruptcy, that was planned by the "dreamers" all along so the County could take the project away from the CSD and Ripley. We couldn't allow MWH not to build it could we????!!!

Watershed Mark said...

TCG- If you live in the PZ "it" is your business, you are going to pay for it and Paavo "If there is a technology that cost significantly less, then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away" Ogren, knows it.

Unknown said...

GRO... YOU are exactly the stupid sort of individual to have fallen for the "Plan"...

YOU do not have a clue what you are talking about... How far up the tree of government does your conspiracy go...??? Did Clinton or Bush or maybe Obama send the EPA folks down to squash Los Osos...??? No GRO, you are simply to blind to see the conspiracy grew right here with McPherson and cheered on by Calhoun with a cast of crazies... you are right there as one of those ignorant, stupid, don't know shit extremists who seem stuck with some notion that a community of some 15,000 people aren't polluting their drinking water through the high density of septic leachfields... What a $&(%()@* moron YOU are...!!!! IF you and any of the other obstructions had any prove of the bullshit you spread, then why haven't YOU and ANN put together another lawsuit...??? You can't because you are so far off base, that you don't know what reality is... You can't prove anything, NOTHING, and we all know you are just full of shit and festering for a stroke....

Q&F....

Watershed Mark said...

QUACK & FIB...

Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...

A little harsh, are we?

Congratulations Mike, you're part of several people who have become the basis of my recent blog article.

S&P. Slow and painful.

Richard LeGros said...

Aaron,

I appreciate your recent blog article. However, why just pick on Mike? Why not Ann?, or GRO?, or me?, or yourself?, or whomever? No need to point fingers at all as we have all been nasty in the past. Your point was already made.

RE: the UndercoverSLO story.
It is just another in a long history of stories penned by a 'journalist' promoting conspiracy theories. The story did not contain any germain law, any facts, or any counter point from the folks targeted either. All the story promoted was an agenda of one-sided innuendo and insinuation purposely used to discredit an individual or group.

Personally, I have no problem with the DA or any governmental organization investagating this issue. Knowing that nothing sinister has occured, I just wish the DA or AG would investagate this kerfuffle in order to finally put a lid on this can of red herrings, LOL.

-R

Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...

Hi Richard,

Thank you for your comments.

There are people who were nasty and have reformed over a period of time, but there are people who are constantly nasty. I'm referring to the latter, and yes, the point was already made. I'm making it again because I'm hoping that able leaders can put the kibash on it. I'm trying my best to lead that effort but I need others to follow and/or lead by example.

Unknown said...

Well Aaron... Interesting, I guess I should be the nice guy and not respond in kind to the GRO's and Ron's... just sort of allow the implications that the pre-recall board and all the community who worked in support of a community wide sewer, as well as the government officials and contractors were somehow crooks stealing the community...

...and on the flip side I should pacifily let a handful of extremists within the community, with a few recruited outsiders, continue to cast blame on all those who worked for the community project... I guess letting Al Barrow throw his fits as well as Lisa Schicker and her tirades, and Julie Tacker, the paragon of moral virtue, threaten to derail any project she doesn't personally approve...

Keep writting Aaron, but until at least the CSD5 make a public apology for lying to this community in order to delay any sewer and for their financial mismanagement, ...until they stand there and tell this community how they are sorry for the nastiness they were instrumental in creating, this community will remain divided... You and I know that is not going to happen, but there will be a measure of satisfaction seeing them on trial for their personal parts in creating this needless war over a sewer...

...as far as GRO, well, how rational does he sound...???? and how typical he projects the image of the crazy extremist... I lived through the couple years leading up to the recall without getting involved, but when my family and friends were insulted and assaulted in public offices and shops by those extremists, I began to get involved... and the more I read the twists of facts and events by the Ann Calhoun' and the outright enuendo over made up "facts" by idiots like GRO, then the more I am getting involved... The longer the public is kept in the dark regarding the "payment" that the PZLDF has never made, the longer that wound will fester... The more times Ron Crawford gets drunk and writes another piece about this community and his favorite Pandora, the deeper the divide...

Hopefully the BOS will take a final stand and say enough is enough and proceed with building the sewer... The community apology may never come, but we should see the much delayed trial of the CSD5 before Christmas this year...

We would all like to see this community return to a quite place to live... I've lived in SLO County for nearly 66 years, bought my first home in Los Osos in 1969...but I don't see the community healing until we can all flush it and forget it... Maybe by then the extremists will have all been tossed in jail or had strokes or moved to Santa Margarita... or made a serious public apology to this community....!!!!!

Watershed Mark said...

Nice work Aaron!

Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...

Mike,

My suggestion is for you to not respond to people who, in your opinion, have absurd beliefs that go up and over simple disagreement.

You can't force people to "see the light." You can't force people to change their ways. You shouldn't expect people to apologize especially when you putt others down. The olive branch has to come from somewhere, Mike.

I think I've figured out Los Osos. The quickest, most efficient way to getting a sewer constructed for this town is to be cordial, consistent and brief. Animosity will further enrage people and they will do things to delay the process and make history repeat itself in an endless, vicious cycle.

Churadogs said...

Aaron sez:"Animosity will further enrage people and they will do things to delay the process and make history repeat itself in an endless, vicious cycle."

Thanks for your input and link to your comments. There are a couple of "anonymous" posters who seem to feed off their own spite and anger and consistently react in a very childishly hostile way, more often than not, projecting their own inner ugliness onto others. Their coments are often revealing but ultimately result in most readers concluding that they're immature, raging jerks. The fact that they're "anonymous" gives them no credibility in the first place. Add to that the truism that when you have to resort to personal attacks and generalized personal nastiness,you've clearly lost your argument in the first place. Not to mention that their Yosemite Sam, hop-up-and-down stem-winding, self-feeding anger just makes them look like big sillies who just make stuff up.

GetRealOsos said...

Aaron and Ann,

If you two don't see the tricks, lies, and corruption, so be it.

For me, all this corruption with Paavo, MWH, TAC, etc. is hard for me to swallow.

The TAC was picked by Noel King and said it was people he felt comfortable with (Tri-W gravity) and excluded at least three viable experts. They excluded Vacuum Low Pressure and decentralized so it would be an argument on JUST Step and Gravity. They couldn't have done that with Vaccum, Low Pressure and Decentralized. Wow.

The 218, what a joke! It was a general benefit for the entire basin.

Now, Bruce eliminating Step after all the promises to review and get the bids.

Oh, let's not forget about the survey. A survey with no prices. A survey completely biased towards gravity. They had the nerve to ask your income, and the nerve not to give figures for an educated decision and choice!

Everything was done backwards by the County. Why?

The answer: to get MWH to do the project.

We've spent $7 million (probably more) to steer right back where we were.

Sorry you think I'm "childish" for pointing this out....

Watershed Mark said...

Ann writes: Not to mention that their Yosemite Sam, hop-up-and-down stem-winding, self-feeding anger just makes them look like big sillies who just make stuff up.

MIKE:
This means you, dag nabbit.

M said...

For someone not wishing a stroke on somebody, Mike sure talks about it alot. Mike said...
Report away you quack... I haven't given you any "death threat" and you know it... You just like your moment of theatrics... but should you have the stroke that you like to work very hard at getting, I only hope it is Quick and Final...I would hate to see any tax dollars go toward keeping you from suffering further... Now maybe you'll understand what Q & F means... No I don't wish ill of you, but if it does, so be it...!!! You sure have worked hard to be one of the nastiest sewer obstructionists long enough... If you have suffered any ill over the sewer you have fought so long to prevent, then it's your own damn fault and no one elses... You want that stroke, so keep being such an ass and you surely will be struck down...not by anything I've said, but only by your own bile...!!!! Joe Sparks is not going to put up with you and neither will I...

3:57 PM, January 10, 2009

Talk about extremists. Actually, that post was to ososchange. So I guess Mike is liberal with his stroke obsession.
Perhaps an apology from the group that brought us the most expensive sewer in the country would help.
Think about it. The County had the sewer for what, 15 years? No sewer. Then in 4 years a site, technology, funding, permits, ground breaking, all in the midst of upheaval and turmoil at a site everybody hated and the most expensive sewer in the country.
Was the problem too many septic tanks in 1983? Or was it "suspected leaking septic tanks"?
Now explain how 1,000 more septic tanks were allowed to be put in.
Sincerely, M

GetRealOsos said...

M,

Now let's see how long it takes for an answer on that one.

I've always said that the County should have collected monies from the developers on those (over) 1,000 homes.

All Tribune articles have said "suspected" pollution from the septic tanks.

I want to know why the RWQCB never put a septic management plan into place if they were worried about the tanks. Why would they NOT want to have any problems corrected. I'm sure some tanks have to be replaced, while other work fine.

GetRealOsos said...

Ann,

ONE question for you...

...would you have voted yes on the 218 if you knew that the County wasn't going to consider alternatives, or that the best project WOULDN'T "float to the top"?? ... or that it would be a ROTTEN process??

Watershed Mark said...

Great questions M!!
Only when there is better citizenship can there be better government.

So in Colorado, an American is not free to collect rainwater on one's own property? That is insane! What's next, a tax on the air we breathe?

Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...

GRO,

I never said your opinions are childish.

The word "corruption" is very heavy so when you talk about the corruption of public officials, you need to have evidence to support your claims... or else you're going to be that person with a tin-foil hat, shouting, "Conspiracy! The British are coming!" and that's what people are seeing.

Now, with MWH, they have a very, very close relationship with pre-recall interests. If you remove all the contested information that was documented on The ROCK and in Blackburn's article, it still shows that they have played a significant, intimate role in our project's history.

$10,000 to the Save the Dream group? Yikes! Not only are they wastewater planners: they're political contributors. They contributed to a group that supported their plan.

Paavo Ogren initiated the backdating of contracts with MWH? Is that true? I feel like I've stumbled on the show, Cheers, where everyone knows their name. This is serious, folks. Now MWH is on the shortlist for the current project.

If it isn't corruption, it's simply too cozy.

Unknown said...

All any of you with some sort of proof that the good folks running the CSD pre-recall broke any laws should have been beating down the DA's door and filing lawsuits... oh, that's right, there were 11 lawsuits filed...and all 11 lost... hmmmm... maybe the pre-recall folks weren't the enemy...

...then jump past the recall, why do you think the CSD5 are going to be tried in a court of law and not on this blog...??? You think that maybe there were some laws broken by the CSD5 and all in the name of "we've got a Plan"... Yup, the Plan was to create as much delay as possible... Do you think the financial mismanagement and bankruptcy was because basic tax accounting laws were followed...???

....but apparently they are your friends and you have proof that will stand up in court that there is absolutely no pollution from the high density of septic tanks and leach fields... so far PZLDF has failed to make that case... neither Ann, Gail, Ron, Lisa, Julie, Chuck, Al, Kieth, Margetson or any of you have proven anything... All you have created is the big delay...and higher costs... You don't seem to understand that Los Osos has been found guilty of polluting... If you don't like that, then it's YOUR burden to PROVE that Los Osos is not polluting...

It's not the RWQCB's burden, they have already proved that to the satisfaction of a court... It's not the County's burden, it's YOURS to prove otherwise or all you have left is to wring your hands and have your strokes... Play detective or sewer lawyer all you want, but all you are now accomplishing is making yourselves even sicker than you are...

If you really want to hang a crook... go ask why the PZLDF has not paid their portion of their lawsuit... and maybe look Chuck right in the eye and ask for a copy of the agreement that says the CSD would pay up to 25% and the PZLDF would pay 75%...then check to see how close to $80,000 the CSD paid... and you can do the math, the PZLDF was to have paid 75% which would have been $320,000... Folks, for $400,000, a real lawyer would have put together a meaningful case, not some spliced together piece of junk... You can read McPherson all over that brief and then wonder how much she got paid for her "consulting"...

There are some real criminals living amongst us in Los Osos, but they sure aren't the pre-recall folks...

Watershed Mark said...

When the Tribune won’t The ROCK will…Steve, MIKE, MDIFHLN:
NO answers for theseUnsnawered Questions???

Watershed Mark said...

Midnight Promises

M said...

Mike, I made no reference to the pre-recall board as to illegal tactics. I said they brought us the most expensive sewer in the country.
They stopped a County sewer with a $75 dollar a month, or so price tag, and gave us the most expensive sewer in the country. If I sound extreme, I am a little mad at that.
At the risk of being labeled a "no sewer" advocate, exactly what symptoms are being displayed of our flagrant polluting of our waters? Of the Bay? I mean after nearly thirty years, there must be something tangible to point to.
I will say that the south end of the Bay doesn't smell nearly as bad as it did 35 years ago.
Sincerely, M

M said...

You know, just thinking about it, is the upper aquifier monitored at all?
Sincerely, M

Watershed Mark said...

M: Stop it, you are exhibiting waaaay too much common sense, just stop it. PLEASE! :-)

Unknown said...

M says... "...and gave us the most expensive sewer in the country."

Please show some figure to back that up... Part of the problem with this whole exchange is folks making unfounded statements like that... There is absolutely no common sense in making that statement...

M said...

Your post got me to thinking, so I looked it up, and inadvertantly found this which I thought was interesting.http://www.advertiser-tribune.com/page/content.detail/id/514291.html
I don't know how to provide a link to it.
Sincerely, M

Jeff Edwards said...

Hello Ann, this is my first time blogging, thanks for the opportunity to respond to some of your Planning Commission report.
First, I’d like to point out that the “long process” is really condensed, two hearings on a project of this size is unheard of and a disservice to the community and the Commission. Worse yet, according to the project timeline in the April 7, staff report for the LOWWP update, Public Works is expecting to have all appeals heard and an approval in hand at the July hearing of the Coastal Commission when they meet here in SLO.
Next, I’d like to address urban reuse while it’s a nice idea; Sea Pines Golf Resort is really the only viable option (and not included in this project, where it has been in others). The cemetery and schools are not interested, for them it’s politically charged with mourners on their knees and kids rolling around on the turf and the idea that they may have to pay for it is an additional non-starter.
As for treatment site locations, from looking at the constraints map, Giacomezzi, looks unlikely to get an approval as it is situated so close to such an important wetland (Warden Lake). I really think the resource agencies will come out in force against it. As you know I am promoting the Gorby site, the County has failed to conduct an exhaustive alternatives analysis of treatment site and disposal options. They have overlooked a strategically located site for both. The Los Osos Valley Equine Farm (aka Gorby) offers considerable potential as an edge-of-town treatment site location and distribution hub for treated effluent on a seasonal basis. During the rainy season treated effluent may be conveyed to the Broderson site for subsurface disposal. In the summertime, the treated effluent may be made available for local farmers for their crops and introduced to Los Osos Creek (via percolation ponds), which runs dry this time of year. These disposal possibilities represent a beneficial use of the water that will provide for long-term protection of the lower basin from rapidly advancing seawater intrusion.
As for the Creek Valley Alluvial Aquifer (aka Creek Compartment) – please see (http://www.losososcsd.org/pdf/ripley_memo3.pdf) the 2006 report by hydrogeologist Kenneth Schmidt and as we speak Cleath and Associates is undergoing “Task II”, a similar analysis of the creek compartment in work commissioned by the ISJ participants. The groundwater modeling is due to be complete in May, with public review in the fall. I am advocating that the information be disseminated sooner than later and incorporated into the co-equal analysis of alternative treatment and disposal sites within the basin.
In your report where you ask, “Who is the steward of the aquifer?” While I believe we all should do our part, if you listen to Public Works as they pass the buck from their project to the purveyors, they simply point to the Court as the final say in how the aquifer is managed.
Lastly, it appears Public Works will have the last word as set up by the hearing format in which Chairwoman Christie has laid out. It will be important for the public to be able to respond to the spin machine, Public Works is masterful at spin, look how they’ve got our Supervisor convinced the proposed project is a good one. I am going to ask that the public have rebuttal time, the worse the Chair could say is “No”.

Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...

I see Jeff has posted on here. Welcome to the wacky world of Los Osos online!

I don't know how far you're going to get with the Gorby site. To eminent domain it is going to cause a lot of problems in the long run.

And Mike, who are you referring to by "you"?

Jeff Edwards said...

Eminent domain is rather common place, Public Works projects do it all the time (Nacimeinto, Willow Rd., just to name a recent few in this County). The LOCSD did it to me in 2004, I had little to say about what was happening. If it's for the greater good, it can be done. The Gorby property houses some businesses, those would need to be negotiated as well.
What other hurdles do you see for that site? I haven't seen any that can't be overcome or haven't been evaluated.

Unknown said...

Jeff... Do either you or your "girl friend" have any financial interest, past or present, in the Gorby property...???

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Jeff, you are completely leaving the Clark Valley Road people out of your Gorby proposal. They have threatened to sue if Giacomazzi is used - think they'll give Gorby a pass? Don't bet on it.

GetRealOsos said...

Mike,

You asked the wrong question of Jeff.

Why don't you ask him why not Tonini, Tri-W or the cemetery site?

The people who own the Gorby property are good people who don't want to sell. Just because they don't want to sell and are in conflict with Jeff's money, is no reason to force them off their land, but that's the American way of life for Jeff and Julie!

Jeff & Julie only care about their money. That's all so obvious now.

P.S. Will the County use the salt water intrusion issue also to revert back to Tri-W? Come on, let us in on the plan!!

Watershed Mark said...

Jeff wrote:
“…the County has failed to conduct an exhaustive alternatives analysis of treatment site and disposal options. They have overlooked a strategically located site for both.”
“It will be important for the public to be able to respond to the spin machine, Public Works is masterful at spin, look how they’ve got our Supervisor convinced the proposed project is a good one.”

It looks like Paavo “If there is a significantly less expensive technology, then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away” Ogren “rides again”.

Unknown said...

GRO... for the first time I just about agree with you... and you do know why I asked the question... Mrs. Tacker already has been shown to have had a conflict of interest in trying a rush-to-sell the Tri-W site when she was working under and undisclosed with Edwards... If I were Jeff, I wouldn't be throwing rocks when I lived in a glass house... opps, she "owned" the glass house didn't she... now they live in.... well, let's be nice tonight and just say, it's not a glass house or a windmill house...

I also agree with 'Toons... and knowing the Tacker/Edwards duo, I'm sure there is something else they won't disclose...

Watershed Mark said...

MIKE: Did you ever have that drinking date with Mrs. Tornowsky?
If so, did the subject of Mr. Dean "I forgot his last name", come up?

FOGSWAMP said...

Jeff

What did Gorby say a few years ago when you and Ed Peterson asked him about selling for sewer plant location?

FOGSWAMP said...

GetRealOsos

TriW !!!! What ya got against our business section?

Churadogs said...

Get REal sez:"Everything was done backwards by the County. Why? "

Ah, now THAT's the real question, something the entire community needs to ask, as in "Oh Looooocy, Joooo gotta lotta 'splainin' to dooooo," but so far I don't see the entire community raising so much as an eyebrow.

Real also sez:" Sorry you think I'm "childish" for pointing this out...."

That's not what I said. Please go back an read what I wrote about "childish" behavior on this comment section. If the shoe fits, fine, if it doesn't it wasn't refering to you.

M sez:"Was the problem too many septic tanks in 1983? Or was it "suspected leaking septic tanks"?
Now explain how 1,000 more septic tanks were allowed to be put in.
Sincerely, M"

Ah, yes, another one of those O Looooocy moments.

Get Real sez:"Ann,

ONE question for you...

...would you have voted yes on the 218 if you knew that the County wasn't going to consider alternatives, or that the best project WOULDN'T "float to the top"?? ... or that it would be a ROTTEN process??"

I knew The Process would have many interesting thumbs on the scale, -- i.e. Noel spilling the beans from day one, I knew the players and what and how very clever they are, (including the behind-the-scenes players), so I figured what has now happened is exactly what I figured would happen.

On the other hand, I also saw no feasible alternative but to go forward and hope the The Process stayed as clean as possible. One immediate benefit was that it offered a chance for the entire community to pay attention and participate and ensure they got the process and the results they wanted. But did they? No. Not really.

Why not? Likely because they really didn't care. I mean, 60% didn't even bother to return the survey, for example. That's funny, and at the same time, that's deadly serious, that figure. SIXTY PERCENT of this community didn't care enough about a proposed wastewater system that would have a direct, extremely costly hit on their very own pocketbooks to pick up a pencil and make a few marks on a few pieces of paper. That's extraordinaryiy powerful indifference. And given that indifference, why would anyone expect The Process and the outcome to be any different than it is turning out to be?

And so, this commuity will get whatever the County and MWH and others wanted to give them in the first place, then they'll get the bill. Will it occur to them that they've been had? Maybe. Will they do anything about it? Naw.

As an opinion columnist, I have one small voice ("O Loooocccyyyyy,. . .") and as a citizen, I have one vote. A community has thousands of voices and votes. Our system is such that we get both the government we deserve and the systems that often end up screwing us over. And we get that because we don't pay attention or care. If people had payed enough attention at key times in this long 25 year slog when a few voices were alerting the community to those "O Loooocy" moments (and there have been many of them) , this train wreck might have been avoided. Alas, they didn't and now you're seeing the results unfolding.

That's always the "interesting" thing about living in a democracy AND living with "regulators" and various unelected "Commissions" that are often incompetent and/or indifferent and/or "political." Makes for a very complex, difficult mix and the regular citizen often gets chewed up in the process.

In short, here's the final epitaph for Los Osos: The community had an opportunity to buy a wastewater system and 60% didn't care what kind or what cost and so the entire community got whatever (default) system The County wanted, and that system was picked in order to serve the County's overall Best Interests, not particularly the Best Interests of Los Osos residents.

Them's Big Dog rules. And 60% of the Los Osos homeowners/residents are fine with that.

Them's also Democracy rules, as well.

Watershed Mark said...

"I don't think the American public has gripped in its gut what could happen," Chu told the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday. "We're looking at a scenario where there's no more agriculture in California. I don't actually see how they can keep their cities going," either.It will be a needless shame if the people of Los Osos give up their aquifer to a government who doesn't need or use it...

Unknown said...

Ah Yes... Democracy...as defined by Ann...

We had democracy in action when the community felt it could govern itself and take on a major public works project... But a handful of extremists hijacked the train and threw the switch to run the train off the bridge... Yes, there was the democratic process working for the good of the whole community until a few vocal enough to overthrow the CSD took charge...

Unfortunately the community at large did not listen to the warnings of those who had worked so hard to bring the WWTF project to reality, not some holistic pipe dream... The gang who hijacked the CSD were not interested in the community as a whole, only their own self-serving agenda of chaos and delay to smokescreen the train plunging off into financial ruin...

Now the County is picking up the pieces and preparing to lay the tracks inorder to move forward once more... The same gang is still there voicing their version of their democratic right to be heard... but this time more of the community at large have seen through the smokescreen of delay and are supporting the County... The "process" is moving forward within the legal envelope of democracy inspite of the extremists still attempting to create further delay through nitpicking. Let's hope Bruce Gibson continues to push the process through and this time heeds the voices of the community who are tired of the gang of sewer obstructionist extremists....

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Pointing out that collecting full strength wastewater via a design that utilizes leaky bell and spigot gravity pipe, 22 energy intensive lift and force main stations, to a location that treats wastewater to secondary standard utilizing an unnecessary amount of energy, so it can be sprayed away, in a drought condition is the kind of nit picking that saves water and lives, MIKE. Get over it.

We live in a Constitutional republic that some mistake for a Democracy. Let Freedom Ring.

Watershed Mark said...

Nit Picker- Adam Harvey, a graphic designer who has a blog tracking the usefulness and usability of government Web sites, said that he'd like to be able to sign up to receive the RSS feeds directly. He'd also like to be able to tailor the RSS feeds that came to him, like signing up only for updates from the Energy Department, for example. So far, it doesn't appear one can do that.

Jeff Edwards said...

No wonder I haven’t blogged before, I’m not sure I ever will again. Bloggers are anonymous and go off on tangential topics unrelated to the real issues.
For the record “Mike”; neither I nor Julie have/had a financial interest in the Gorby property. I was the only person who made an offer on Tri-W. Julie supported a sale of the property, due in part to the condition of the LCP that the Public Facility zoning goes away if the parcel is no longer owned by the LOCSD. Also for the record, Julie came to work for me as an independent contractor well after the offer was rejected.
“Sewertoons”, I believe it is the Bear Valley Alliance that you speak, those residents live North of LOVR, I haven’t heard them say anything about the Gorby site, if they had to choose Giacomazzi or Gorby, I think they’d go with Gorby. (But, really all sites are at risk for litigation, including Tonini).
“GetRealOsos”, I invite you to read my comments on the DEIR, submissions to the Planning Commission and listen to my testimony at every opportunity, I outline my solution to the wastewater problem. I’m proud to say I offer up a solution while most others just object to the one before us.
“Fogswamp”, I have never spoken to the Gorby’s on the topic. They have been on the property for 40 years and would likely be ready for retirement. The sale to the County would give them market value for their property and their business. Since the project will take some time to construct, the plant could be phased to be last and the Gorby’s could easily phase out their operation. I don’t know if they’re looking at the whole picture.
Thanks again Ann for the opportunity to blog, but if bloggers continue to go off the real issues as they relate to my input, I’d rather not respond.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Jeff, don't you recall that on the tour that Public Works gave to the Planing Commission for all possible WWTF locations, that the Gorbys would not allow the tour onto their property? Do you think that there might have been a message in that?

Now just what science backs up that the creek compartment would be of any use to the lower aquifer?

Here is a bit of history from September 2006.Mrs. Biggs wrote an 10 page memo on Julie's conflict of interest regarding Tri-W litigation.

I quote directly from Mrs. Biggs letter, dated September 23, 2006:

"At the Board meeting held on September 21, 2006, Director Tacker announced that she would have to abstain from discussion of a matter of pending litigation because she has accepted employment with a firm owned and controlled by Mr. Jeff Edwards, one of the defendants in that action. Because her employer has had dealings with the District including involvement in negotiations for the purchase of District owned land, this announcement raises questions as to what limitations apply to Ms. Tacker and the District as a result of her employment by a local developer."

AND:

"Director Tacker need not resign her office, but she may not participate in any decision-making that relates to Mr. Edwards or his companies and the Board may not enter into any contracts with Mr. Edwards or his companies so long as Ms. Tacker is on the Board."

AND:

"Thus, in the present case, Director Tacker, as an employee of Mr. Edwards, has a financial interest in the business that employs her. She receives compensation, whether as a direct employee or as a consultant from the business interests of Mr. Edwards. As such, the provisions of Government Code §1090 apply. As a result, the District is prohibited from entering into a contracts with Mr. Edwards or any of his companies, including contracts relating to the for the sale of land."

So Jeff - just what was the basis of that lawsuit?

(Also, the CSD forgot that it had to offer the property first to the County before it could go for sale to the public.)

FOGSWAMP said...

Jeff

Thanks, I guess it was Ed. I remember him stating he thought that would be the ideal spot for the plant and he was going to pass it by Gorby.

I agree with him and you.

Can't say that I blame you if you don't respond to caustic bloggers.

Jeff Edwards said...

Sewertoons,
Check out years of studies related to the creek compartment. See the Kenneth Schmidt report from 2006, as stated in my first blog.
By the way, thanks for the memories. The opinion from Biggs related to the lawsuit (eminent domain) the District had filed against me. Julie recused herself from that discussion. If you recall, Julie also recused herself from the discussion related to Farbstein, a project I represented.
By the way, Julie reminds me that the LOCSD indeed offered the properties to the County and other public agencies prior to ever listing the property, which they never did. It was appraised, which apparently the new Board was unaware of until recently.
Fogswamp, thanks for the validation, now tell the County to evaluate it.

Watershed Mark said...

Jeff,

Lynette Tornowski is "toons". Lynette demonstrated her lack of character awhile back when she wrote about one: Mr. Dean “I forgot his last name” who she may have invented as a gimmick.
“We” are still sorting that out
Don't expect honesty from her, intellectual or otherwise, as she has most certainly demonstrated a heavy bias in favor of whatever the county’s consulting engineer and Paavo “If the is a technology that is significantly less expensive, then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away” Ogren put forward, no questions asked.

In the interest of “off topic” topics, how about a little diversion?

Good luck with this and have fun! This is a 5th grade math problem. If you can't stand word math problems, just delete now. If you can open the spreadsheet, you'll see it's a very small list of people who have gotten the correct number. This is not a trick question. This is a real math problem so don't say that a bus has no legs.


There are 7 girls in a bus

Each girl has 7 backpacks

In each backpack, there are 7 big cats

For every big cat there are 7 little cats

Question: How many legs are there in the bus?

The correct number of legs is the password to unlock the Excel sheet.
If you don't have the right answer, it won't open the spreadsheet.
When you open it, add your name, RESAVE the spreadsheet, and send it on to see who else can unlock it.
I’ll be happy to send anyone the “spreadsheet” who wants it, if you’ll shoot an email over to me.

Mark Low
602.740.7975 voice
480.464.0405 facsimile
Mark@NOwastewater.com
P.O. Box 1355 Mesa, Arizona 85211
Spero Meliora "I aspire to greater things"

Shark Inlet said...

Jeff,

"Watershed Mark" is the infamous Mark Low of Murphy and Low and cannot even be bothered to spell the names of others correctly. The veracity of his statements has regularly been called into question here. Certainly you should not expect honesty from him, intellectual or otherwise. On the other hand, you can expect that he will post tons of off-topic and semi-off-topic comments and generally provide little insight into anything related to Los Osos.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Thanks Shark for saying it nicer than I would.

I'm pretty sure Jeff would spell my name correctly anyway - we ran for LOCSD director during the same election.

Watershed Mark said...

"I forgot his last name"...testing 1,2,3...

Shark Inlet said...

In case your hit-n-run commenting doesn't cause you to see my reply in Aaron's blog I will reprint it for you here because you seem to have not replied yet ...

Mark,

I can't tell whether you didn't read my comments in Ann's blog, whether you read but didn't understand those comments or whether you read and understood them but are choosing to disagree with your state scientists.

Please don't bother commenting again unless you are interested in commenting on what I wrote (which I will copy, in part, for you here so that you don't have to go-a-huntin' and you won't be able to say that you didn't see the comments):

There are exactly two main aquifers in the Phoenix AMA (the thickest portion of the Eastern one pretty much runs from NE Phoenix to Mesa and the thickest portions of the Western one are in the central Phoenix and Glendale area) and the city of Phoenix uses water from both ... in fact, it is the only city in the AMA which sits on top of both. Most of the water used by the region is from the Colorado, Gila or Salt rivers. Treated wastewater and water from the CAP (Colorado River) is being used to recharge the aquifers because they've been overused for so long. The state still says that they likely won't be in a state of health even by 2025 even with recharging.

Presumably, because the Arizona DWR says that the AMA is in overdraft (and Mark agrees), and Mark says Phoenix isn't (and DWR disagrees) ... Mark could identify which of the two aquifers is in overdraft and which isn't (note: the Arizona DWR AMA status report pretty much shows that both aquifers are similar with regard to the water table).

So then ... let's recap. If Phoenix isn't in overdraft but it sits in a region which is, one of the two aquifers Phoenix sits on and uses must be in overdraft and the other one not. However, the DWR report shows both aquifers are the same.
[The complete comments in context can be found at http://calhounscannon.blogspot.com/2009/04/calhouns-canons-for-april-17-09.html ... look towards the bottom ...]

Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote: "On the other hand, you can expect that he will post tons of off-topic and semi-off-topic comments and generally provide little insight into anything related to Los Osos."

I Love LO!

Watershed Mark said...

On April 27, 2009 9:49 PM Steve wrote:
“Mark, I can't tell whether you didn't read my comments in Ann's blog, whether you read but didn't understand those comments or whether you read and understood them but are choosing to disagree with your state scientists.
At 10:29 PM on April 27, 2009 Steve wrote: “In case your hit-n-run commenting doesn't cause you to see my reply in Aaron's blog I will reprint it for you here because you seem to have not replied yet ...

Steve,
Your internet blogging obsession/habit is very c-r-e-e-p-y.
You might want to talk to someone about that.
Maybe Mr. Dean “I lost his last name” can help?

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

You are funny! I would presume that someone commenting negatively on the frequency of my comments would at least have fewer comments than me ... but I guess I was wrong.

I still note that even though I've now provided you solid evidence that you are wrong ... in three places ... where you've certainly seen these comments at least twice ... you refuse yet again to comment at all other than to repeat a falsehood based on your own misunderstanding. Again, you can lead a horse to water ....

FOGSWAMP said...

Jeff

I have put in my support for the Gorby location.

The TriW location is where our park shoulld be, not a sewer plant.

I'll never forget the first location the so called "solutions group" selected, at the golf course!!!

The meeting was held in the golf course small crowded meeting room, filled with angry people
loudly objecting to the lunacy in progresss.

After the crowd pointed out the fact that the foot print was too small, it will stink up the entire community etc etc....Rocky (manager) strolled in and stated "I don't think we'll be very cooperative".

About that point in time I was
stunned to hear Frank Frieler (who was sitting right in front of me)say to the person next to him (who was also on the site committee) "we don't have to listen to these people".

And they didn't.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,

The Phoenix AMA is not Phoenix and thus Phoenix is not in over draft.
I understand that you do not understand that, but it doesn’t change the fact that: Phoenix is not in over draft.

Your obsession has little to do with frequent but rather your delusion about your having some kind of "power" to demand and expect that I respond "at your command".
Cut and pasting your post from Aaron's blog to Ann's Land because you think I haven't responded to your expectation is proof of your problem and so very c-r-e-e-p-y.

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

I was trying to give you the chance to respond if you hadn't seen the Document I referred to which has maps showing the change in water table depth at various locations in the Phoenix AMA, including in the City. Interestingly enough, that document (which you don't seem to have read thoroughly if at all) tells us that whether inside the City limits or outside the city limits, the aquifers in Phoenix are about the same in terms of overdraft.

No, I don't have the power to demand you respond nor do I expect that you will. After all, you are soooooo much in the wrong here that any response other than the sort of ignorant insistence that you are right and I am wrong would involve you actually confronting data and evidence and explaining how you can be right when the data show you are wrong. In short, I cannot demand that you respond, but I can point out that a person who refuses to respond, as you have done, looks very much like he has plead nolo contendere.

Certainly my choice to take your non-response as your admission that I am right is far more reasonable than your assertion that I meant just the City of Phoenix when I was referring to the greater metro area as a whole ... and that is another subject I wonder why you've never addressed.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,

I understand that you do not comprehend that Phoenix obtains up to 3% of its water from ground water sources and banks much more than that amount everyday, some of it in aquifers 50 miles away from Phoenix.

Water is a special world and cannot be dissected logically as you want to believe.

No matter how bad you wish Phoenix to be in over draft, it isn’t.

If you had followed the advice I have provided previously, you would know what I and the folks who are responsible for water in Phoenix know.

Phoenix is not in over draft.

Don’t stay stuck on stupid.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote: "Certainly my choice to take your non-response as your admission that I am right is far more reasonable than your assertion that I meant just the City of Phoenix when I was referring to the greater metro area as a whole ... and that is another subject I wonder why you've never addressed."

OK, I'll address it once again:

You said: “Phoenix is in over draft” and now we all know that it isn't.

Perhaps, if you had been more specific in your statement, let's say something like: according to the State of Arizona the Phoenix Active Management Area is in over draft, you wouldn't be demonstrating your stupidity about water supply in Phoenix now.

How's that?

And you think you are a pool Lifeguard?
Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

I get it ... you are defining overdraft differently than the rest of us (say, for example, your favorite: wikipedia).

Perhaps you are unaware what overdraft means. Perhaps you think that because this year less water is being taken out of the aquifer than is being used to recharge the aquifer that your area is not in a state of overdraft.

Let me ask you a question. If the federal government has a massive amount of debt but happens to have a balanced budget in on year, is the debt problem magically solved? By no means!

Think of your aquifer as a credit card. If you have a balance of $5000, it doesn't matter that you are spending only $400/month on the card and paying $500/month ... you have still overspent somewhere along the line.


That being said, perhaps now you understand the nature of our disagreement. You were using the terms Phoenix and overdraft differently than I was and rather than pursuing understanding by asking me what I meant you just jumped down my throat.


If I were to have used your (nonstandard) definition of the word overdraft and had I been referring only to the City of Phoenix but not Mesa nor Glendale nor any other neighboring town, you might be right.


In short ... you weren't able to think beyond your misunderstanding. Perhaps that is what you mean when you write about being stuck on stupid.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve, I get it. You don't know the definition of Phoenix.

Phoenix is not in over draft...How many times do you need to read those words???

Talk about stupid. SHEESH! ;-)

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

Perhaps if you had read the report on the state of the aquifers in your area you would be prepared to have a thoughtful comment.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
Something thoughtful like this incredibly accurate statement: Phoenix is not in over draft.

Shark Inlet said...

Doofus,

Nice try, but you're repeating yourself again without evidence.

Do you also think that if you clap your hands three times and say "the freemarket is best" three times that the mortgage backed securities market will become healthy?

Watershed Mark said...

When you don't have the facts ankle bite or stay on the porch Steve.

"Phoenix is not in over draft"...Here ends the lesson.

Watershed Mark said...

Something for the blind mice to think about:

"Defiance, population of 16,000, recently lost 900 jobs with the closing of a GM plant," Voinovich said. "Now it's forced to double its sewer rates, and that's going on the backs of people left in town. Many of those people left in town are unemployed because of the closing of that facility.

Thank you for the link M.

FOGSWAMP said...

Mark

Excellent and timely article on the subject matter.

It's good to read about two Senators (D & C) working together for the common good.

The mentioned grant program would fund $1.8 billion over five years and pay 75 percent of each project, local entity paying 25%.

Sounds too good to be true but whats another $1.8 billlion on top of our 4 trillion debt. Nows the time.

Do you know the Senate Bill number? I tried to E-mail Kevin Risner at the live link given at the head of the article but it,s no good?

Watershed Mark said...

We owe our thanks to "M" who posted the link above.
I just read it and hot linked it.

The "grants, loans/funds" have yet to be appropriated.
The wastewater funding will be paid out via SRF. At least that's how it stands today...

There will be plenty of "bills" to keep track of, so hang in there.

Sounding good is all part of the change.

Watershed Mark said...

REPOST:

The 20% stimulus fund “water projects” setaside for green infrastructure, energy efficiency, and environmentally "innovative" projects specifically includes, as "innovative" projects, the following:

"Decentralized wastewater treatment solutions to existing deficient or failing on site systems."

See page 46 of the EPA guidance on this funding

Some states (e.g., Ohio) have been using the set aside funds for decentralized systems . . . but not many.
Each state's SRF program manages these funds, and establishes the general rules & funding priorities, with EPA input & guidance.