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Monday, October 18, 2010

Juxtaposition

Front page of the Tribune, Sunday Oct 17, 2010.  "Air crash kills 4 from SLO County."  Roger Lyon, a north county attorney and rancer and the pilot of a small plane crashed in the fog near San Quintin, Baja California.  The plane was carrying Doctors James Thornton and Graciela Sarmiento, and medic and Cal Poly student (studying to become a doctor) Andrew Thiel.  They were volunteers with Flying Samaritans, a group who regularly flew to San Quintin to bring much needed medical care to the people there.

To the left, same page, same edition, the headline, "Fatal wreck called deliberate."  Jerardo Iriarte, nineteen-years old, "in an attempt to harm himself" drove his car at over 100 mph off Highway 101.  The car careened down an embankent, through a chain link fence and smashed into Bruce Mallin, 63, and his wife, Marjorie, 59.  They apparently had been vacationing from Washington state and had been walking along Price Street in Pismo Beach on that lovely fall morning.  They died at the scene.  Jerado was arrested.

A great writer, Thornton Wilder, perhaps, could make sense or even  "art" from those headlines.  I certainly can't.  The cruel, selfish pointless stupidity of one human story versus the love and care and generosity of the samaritans of the other human story is simply too baffling for me. I suspect sad silence is the only suitable response.  

62 comments:

Richard LeGros said...
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Sewertoons said...

Thank you Richard for posting this. I hope many turn out for tonight's meeting. This matter is of concern to every resident in Los Osos.

Alon Perlman said...

Director Ochylski noted in response to my question last night, at the Finance Committee mtg., that the CSD plan report is still in progress and will be made availble at 7:00.

Richard LeGros said...
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Sewertoons said...

I just e-mailed Ann a copy of the handout last night (I made a pdf). I did not see her at that meeting.

I hope that she will write something about it, as we are seriously off-topic here!

Mike said...

Thanks Richard & Lynette...

...curious that Jon said submitting the Bankruptcy Plan would not resolve anything in 30 to 40 days...this has been going on since August of 2006... He hasn't submitted anything substantial yet... How many more years does he think this should take...??? ...or more to the point, how long will the District continue to fund his folly...??? I guess we'll have to wait to see how much patience the Court has... there has to be a limit to this charade...

Churadogs said...

Had a prior committment Tues. If memory serves, didn't Judge Ribblett tell WMH and Barnard Const, etc. that they should be suing the State Revolving Fund, not the CSD for breach of contract & etc. Did anything happen on that or did that fall down the memory hole as well?

Churadogs said...

Toonces & Richard and TPW: Thanks for the update, BTW, why don't you post the PDF, and whatever Press Releases TPW sends out on Richard's site and let me know and I'll post a link so folks can go to Richard's site to Read All About It.

Richard LeGros said...
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Mike said...

Richard, I think some folks out there still think the BK is just going to make creditor claims go away like a Chapter 7 or 13...

They also think it would be easy to sell Tri-W and Borderson and use the funds to pay off any BK...

Oh well... I'm saving monthly for the bill I know is coming...

Sewertoons said...

I think that after all the support, tacit or otherwise, for the recall and "Move the Sewer," Ann should opine about this very real and bad news event that affects the entire community, but possibly more particularly those in the PZ. I'd appreciate it, anyway.

Sewertoons said...

The latest Bay News has an article on the bankruptcy. Check it out.

Churadogs said...

Richard sez:"In the end, the Los Osos ratepayers can not avoid having to pay a minimum of $12,000,000 to pay off said debts; and probably far more."

How much of that was the result of your Board starting work before the election? As for the rest, that was the price this town had to pay to get a sewer plant out of town, all avoidable if the CSD had done what I kept asking for years ago; a chinese menue, accuarate prices, and a vote.

And the CSD is a skeleton? The CSD was always a skeleton. It was only formed to build a sewer system (The Ponds of Avalon) that Ron Crawford has documented was DOA and everyone except the citizens knew was DOA. From there, both the Sewer and the CSD was on the tracks to a manipulaed train wreck, fueled by various officials all shoveling coal into the firebox and calling for more speed! I'm not in the least surprised that what emerged from that wreck is a "skeleton." I'm surprised anything emerged. As to your "concern" about the CSD. Didn't TPW want the thing dead and tried to get LAFCO to kill it off? Why the crocodile tears now?

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron said...

Ann writes:

"It (the LOCSD) was only formed to build a sewer system (The Ponds of Avalon) that Ron Crawford has documented was DOA and everyone except the citizens knew was DOA."

Yep.

And Ron Crawford also documented how those "Everyone" (The Karners, Paavo Ogren, Cleath and Assoc., MWH, Crawford Multari Clark, Wallace Group, etc.) DELIBERATELY created the train wreck starting in 1998 when they conspired to kill the county's then-"ready to go" project with their known-to-be DOA "Ponds of Avalon" disaster, and have been cashing in on it ever since, as I show at this link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2010/07/cha-friggin-ching-for-los-osos-project.html

And... well, lookeee who's decided to peek his/her head out of his/her little hole: Good' ol' Richdora.

Hey, LeGarner, what's your response to Ann's EXCELLENT take?:

"BTW, why don't you (Richdora) post the PDF, and whatever Press Releases TPW sends out on Richard's site and let me know and I'll post a link so folks can go to Richard's site to Read All About It."

Uh, yeah... why don't you guys do that?

I can't seem to find your web site in my boomkarks file.

That reminds me.

Ann, also writes:

"As to your (Richdora's) "concern" about the CSD. Didn't TPW want the thing dead and tried to get LAFCO to kill it off? "

The answer to that great question is not only "yes," but that attempt to "kill it of" resulted in HILARITY!

I report ALL about it, at this link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2008/07/taxpayers-watch-we-want-our-924750-and.html

and this link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2008/07/taxpayers-watch-we-want-our-924750-and.html

Hahahahahah!

Ron said...

Ahhhh, I just realized I put in the same link twice, above, and that blew my entire, "That reminds me," joke.

Because the link I meant to add shows how my mom's gardening club has a web site, but Taxpayers Watch (that, apparently is now popping out "NEWSLETTERS") doesn't.

HERE's that hilarious link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2008/08/unlike-my-moms-garden-club-taxpayers.html

The Razor said...

Ron, Taxpayers Watch doesn't have a web site probably because that makes them more accountable for the undocumented information they provide.

Why does TW feel the need to force Ann to upload pertinent information that adheres to TW's "newsletter" message? They should have a site of their own. Is their web site designer really that inept? With her "expertise," she can make a PDF but she can't create a site to host that PDF?

Richard LeGros said...
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TheOpenEye said...

But Aaron, Taxpayers Watch does have a web site.

Mike said...

Tax Payers Watch..??? Aren't they the only community wide group of responsible Los Osos citizens who successfully held the irresponsible CSD5 accountable for misappropriation of $2,000,000 tax funds...???

How many dollars has the Rock or Sewerwatch actually saved for or returned the community...???

Looks like the Tax Payers Watch is the most powerful organization in Los Osos... they sure didn't need a worthless website to win their lawsuit...

M said...

I'm still wondering and worried about why you are still concerned about the "5000" property owners Richard. Being as you were one of the main characters in the BK, it concerns me that you are still involved in it. Pure Richard, always bringing up the blame game.
Everybody has a website or Facebook page, or Twitter account these days. How come you guys don't? Several of you rail about how meaningless this blog is, but then you expect Ann to post your information?
Sincerely, M

M said...

Where may one obtain this fine upstanding organizations newsletter?
Sincerely, M

Mike said...

M... Tax Payers Watch is made up of responsible community members who have worked for years to solve the water pollution problem for the good of the entire community, not those who's only concerns are their own personal agendas...

Since you are disingenuous and seem to need a platform to continue to blame and attempt to futher obstruct the solution, then go sign on with the other 2 self-flagellation websites...and do continute to parade in front of the BOS... Mr Meacham really loves to hear your complaints...over and over and over...

Richard LeGros said...
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Sewertoons said...

Let's see, just WHAT was the date that the contracts were signed between the CSD and the contractors - wasn't that early on - like 2001 or so?

Had the contracts been broken in, say, 2002 or 2003 or 2004, (instead of 2005 by the Lisa Board), wouldn't they just have sued the CSD earlier? I mean it is the CONTRACTS that are the basis of the lawsuits, right? What other basis could there be? Had the project started in 2003 and then been stopped, there would STILL have been breach-of-contract lawsuits, right?

So the date of starting the project or the recall really doesn't have much to do with this, does it?

But MUCH MORE to the point, was Lisa, Julie, John, Steve, Chuck or any of that bunch bothering to attend meetings in 1998, 1999, 2000 BEFORE the contracts were signed? Al was around busy suing I know. Julie, I am told was, "A sewer in this town over my dead body." But maybe even that statement came later. I wasn't here, so I'm asking.

Mike said...

Actually there will be a sewer... it's only the treatment facility that apparently will end up outside Los Osos... The pipes in the ground and the torn up streets will still happen... but the cost is going to be so much higher than was ever necessary...

The CSD is about to either become a small shell of a toothless government administration department or will be dissolved... No matter how the BK is resolved, the CSD was destroyed by the Schicker led post-recall decisions...

Lisa and her MTS band have succeeded... they have halted a legal water treatment facility and delayed any wwtf by years, 5 so far... Cost? Cost was never a thought to the MTS folks, just the selfish personal agendas of the few... Will Lisa, Julie, Ann, Al, Gail still be living in Los Osos when the bills start coming...??? Probably not... and ron doesn't live in LO and aaron doesn't own property, so they won't have to pay for any of the cost of the delays or the BK...

Churadogs said...

Mikeee sez:"Will Lisa, Julie, Ann, Al, Gail still be living in Los Osos when the bills start coming...??? Probably not..."

Ah, Mikee, there you go again, making stuff up.

Richard sez:"You will end up with the BK plan you deserve."

richard, this community will end up with the bankruptcy plan that was locked and set in motion the moment your Board voted to start the project before the recall vote. The minute those cats started digging in the ground, every next step clicked into place, one after another, and nothing anybody said or did would make a lick of difference.

Prior to that vote to proceeed, there were several KEY moments, when this train could have been de-linked and a wreck avoided. But that de-linkage was either ignored by regulator/oversight folks (the CC) or by State Waterboard (the unsecured SRF loan) and/or the CSD.All those little dots Ron has spelled out and documented. And his book will now end with a community injured waaaaayyyyy more than necessary because it was hit by the perfect storm and the perfect failure of both government, apathetic public, hidden agendas, lies, and absolute . . . mad-hatter insanity run amok.

Mike said...

Thank you Ann... Is there any question left that you haven't let ron write into his "book"...???

There is absolutely no question left in Los Osos as to why you have never been in a position of decision making...

I feel sorry for you and your lonely frustratations... You might someday try to forget the anger burning inside you and stop to look around at the beauty of this coast...

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron said...

Mike writes:

"Tax Payers Watch is made up of responsible community members who have worked for years to solve the water pollution problem for the good of the entire community, not those who's only concerns are their own personal agendas"

See, Mike?

Right there. THAT's a good start to a web site. You guys could put that on your front page.

And then, you could have a link that says something like, "Our Members," and on that page would be the name(s) of the proud "...responsible community members who have worked for years to solve the water pollution problem for the good of the entire community."

(By the way, I added the "(s)" at the end of "name(s)," just in case there's more than one.)

Tellya what I'll do.

Considering that Taxpayers Watch can afford to waste over $40,000 on a frivolous (and, ultimately, laughably embarrassing) dissolution attempt, then, it's my guess that you can kick down a couple ger for a web site.

I can hook you up with a sweet site in just a couple days.

Contact me through my blog. You'll love it!

Ann writes:

"All those little dots Ron has spelled out and documented. And his book will now end with a community injured waaaaayyyyy more than necessary because it was hit by the perfect storm and the perfect failure of both government, apathetic public, hidden agendas, lies, and absolute . . . mad-hatter insanity run amok."

Or, as I like to call it: Best Book Evvveeerrrr!

That also reminds me, I need to kick my "Celebrate Pandora!" campaign into high gear... you know... for that Grapes of Wrath-y ending to my book, that I NEED... absolutely have to have it.

And, finally... Open Eye? You're funny!

Sewertoons said...

Ann, I don't get why you say, "richard, this community will end up with the bankruptcy plan that was locked and set in motion the moment your Board voted to start the project before the recall vote."

NO, it was set in motion once the recall took legs in 2004 or 2005. It was set in motion because of the illegal Measure B –– AND -- the community MIGHT have been saved from bankruptcy by continuing to build the collection system while looking for a new plant location. The Lisa Board CHOSE NOT to do that.

The contracts were signed in 2001. PRIOR TO THAT is when the protest should have been made. My question to you and anyone else who cares to chime in - if you didn't like the treatment plant at Tri-W, what were you saying to the Board in the year 2000 or in 2001? Anything? Where were YOU in this?

Mike said...

'toons, keep in mind that land purchases and project designs don't just happen at the snap of a finger... There was much discussion and thought put into eventual purchase of the Tri-W site... there was not many options given the constraints of a small CSD... the personal agenda nay-sayers didn't come along until after Gail brought her chip-on-the-shoulder act to LO, long after the Tri-W site was purchased...

The Razor said...

Ann,

I have a suggestion. In accordance with your "stick needles on your own site" provision, you should delete all comments by Taxpayers Watch until they form their own web site. They need to be held accountable for what they say and do in a format that everyone has access to.

I personally believe Taxpayers Watch has done a disservice to your articles by relaying undocumented information in your comments section -- and it's irrelevant to the subject matter ("What does the BK hearing have anything to do with Roger Lyon and the fatal car wreck in Pismo?").

This has nothing to do with "blame" or "attacking neighbors." It's about accepting responsibility by putting information on your own site under your own name for reference and organizational purposes.

If TW resorts to anonymously vandalizing people's sites, they create the appearance of being the online counterpart of the Westboro Baptist Church.

M said...

Richard, exactly what response or influence could I possibly have on the BK proceedings? That they continually get extended is a source of frustration to me. You continually trying to get us to get on board with you is laughable considering you were the one with the highest number of votes to move you out of office. And for good reason.
Mike, how much more are the pipes in the ground going to cost us now? How do you know this?
Sewertoons, which contracts are you talking about? As I remember the old CSD foolishly accepted the 46% higher bids than figured in late 2004 or early 2005.
Sincerely, M

Alon Perlman said...

What is the topic here? The comparison between the 2 events associated in time? 4 good Samaritans from SLO county lose their lives in a far away location paying out on a risk that they were aware of?
Two out of county visitors pay with their lives for a leisurely Oceano stroll. Pay dearly due to the messy life and confusion of a person they did not know, and who did not know them.

So let's look at how the Blogging community responded=
Cal Coast 1 article each; Samaritans-7 comments,-Oceano 41 comments
Tribune; 2 articles Samaritans and till recently 45 comments. With the memorials nearing there are articles and comments coming.
The Oceano Crash received 205 comments and the follow-up got 57.
What deep social conclusions can we draw from the differences in activity?

Non! a commenter by the name of “Wise_Guy” was actively trolling the “Oceano accident” blog posts, continuing an obsessive trolling rampage that started earlier in a “Dystiny Myers” coverage article. Leaving responses to other peoples posts and goading them to respond.
Meanwhile a commenter “Jazzman” was similarly trolling the Oceano accidents posts at the Trib . At one point “Jazzman” at the tribune quoted “Wise-Guy's” “summation” at CCN, to try and get the discussion restarted.
So what has any of this to do with The Bankruptcy Plan 4-page report?
In the same way that the Bankruptcy plans content was decided by events, that according to Jon S. Esq. Derive from the AB2701 language, the events on the trib and CCN were largely shaped by prior activities.
In fact, if you go back to 2007, you here, reading the cannons, have previously encountered Jazzman/Wise-Guy's obsessive Master-blogging many many times.
Those unmistakable little voices...

The need to control other peoples conversations is "is simply too baffling for (most people). ..."I suspect sad silence is the only suitable response."


To post a link to a PDF you don't need a blog. A storage service will do. The “Draft “ report contains nothing new and should be available at the CSD site.

Richard LeGros said...
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GetRealOsos said...

There you go again Lynette:

Regarding bankruptcy, You say, ...

NO, it was set in motion once the recall took legs in 2004 or 2005. It was set in motion because of the illegal Measure B –– AND -- the community MIGHT have been saved from bankruptcy by continuing to build the collection system while looking for a new plant location. The Lisa Board CHOSE NOT to do that. ...

Well Lynette, why don't you tell us WHO was going to pay for continuing to build? Stop blaming Lisa. Blame Richard. Blame the State Water Board.

The State Water Board stopped the money flow! No Prop 218 vote, no money. That's what they said.

You are always so very wrong Lynette!

And regarding the Tri W site, Pandora formed the CSD to build the sewer, Ponds there Lynette! Also to make sure the PZ would have to pay for it and knowing that the Regional Board said no to ponds and there wasn't enough land.

Pandora promised ponds. She lied, just like you Lynette.

TheOpenEye said...

Ann,

Alon's comments of 3:11 PM, October 23, 2010 are laced with the lowest of lies and filthy innuendo, as were other typically disgusting comments by him recently on Cal Coast News, and he will be held accountable. STAY TUNED.:)

TOE

P.S. Thanks for the "funny" Ron!

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette and Richard,

You know darn well that Stan told everyone at the courthouse during the Measure B hearing:

"We (the recalled board) left you with NOTHING (no money, set the new board up to fail)"

That's the truth.

Blame the recalled board for all the expense to PZ homeowners, the bankruptcy, etc. AND don't forget Pandora! Let's give her a big thank you too.

M said...

Richard, again what options are open to me and how can I effect them? Agree with you? Forgive you?
Sincerely, M

The Razor said...

The Worst Person in Los Osos

Alon Perlman said...

"Malice drinks deeply of it's own poison.
Ref; Seneca Ref; C(S)C

Churadogs said...

Mikee sez:" feel sorry for you and your lonely frustratations... You might someday try to forget the anger burning inside you and stop to look around at the beauty of this coast..."

There you go again, projecting.

Richard sez;"Within the next 24 months you will begin paying out-of-pocket for the damage wrought by the BK and our community's unending delay to build a WWTP."

No, we will begin paying out of pocket for the damage wrought, in large part, by the CSD's vote begin digging holes in the ground before the recall/measure B vote. It is also damage wrought by refusing the old Chinese Menue plan AND telling the communityh that any out of town options would be waaaaaayyyyyy more expensive & etc. That's not "blame" richard, it's simply what happened that led to this train wreck. As i wrote, there were KEY points along the way in this saga, where a few steps could have made a huge difference.

Lynette sez:"The contracts were signed in 2001. PRIOR TO THAT is when the protest should have been made. My question to you and anyone else who cares to chime in - if you didn't like the treatment plant at Tri-W, what were you saying to the Board in the year 2000 or in 2001? Anything? Where were YOU in this?"

Oh, gosh, there were loads of people at CSD meetings for months, even years, saying, Give Us A side-by-side Step/Gravity system with cost and let us Vote/Choose, and Do a re-bid as these bids are 40% over, (heck, even the Water Board said they'd give the CSD more time since the bids were totally overly high; theCSD declined and approved those huge prices), there were people pleading with the CSD board to set the Measure B/recall as early as possible, to NOT start anything until the vote was held,give the people a chance to vote, there were loads of people speaking up saying, wait, wait, vote first. Meetings got insanely crazy, Sheriff's were posted. There WAS an outcry again at many, many points along the way. All ignored.

Mike sez:"there was not many options given the constraints of a small CSD... the personal agenda nay-sayers didn't come along until after Gail brought her chip-on-the-shoulder act to LO, long after the Tri-W site was purchased..."

Yes as to the limited resources (as Paavo correctly noted a few years ago), but incorrect as to nay-sayers. You're off by years. For years as Tri W was proceeding, people kept asking for a side-by-side comparison, STEP v gravity, in-town, out of town, etc. (like the county did). The CSD didn't have the resources to do that to any high degree, BUT they did have enough information to come to best guestimates.Bruce Buel said in a meeting that a ball park cost for additioinal piping out of town would be 5=6 Mil. Adjust for cheaper land out of town vs. Tri W and the two systems likely would be near a wash -- If THAT ball-park guesimate/choices had been put before the community in a "survey/preference/vote" like the county later did, it would have cut the legs off all dissenters. That was never done. We were told there was no alternative, that out of town would be WAAAAAAYYYY more expensive, that we had no choice & etc. All, as it turns out, not true.

The Open Eye sez:"Alon's comments of 3:11 PM, October 23, 2010 are laced with the lowest of lies and filthy innuendo, as were other typically disgusting comments by him recently on Cal Coast News, and he will be held accountable. STAY TUNED.:)"

Alon puts his name on his comments. You're one of those "Anonymice." Need I say more?

Churadogs said...

the Razor sez:'They need to be held accountable" and while TOE sez:" he will be held accountable."

Separated at birth?

Ron said...

Ann writes:

"Bruce Buel said in a meeting that a ball park cost for additioinal piping out of town would be 5=6 Mil. Adjust for cheaper land out of town vs. Tri W and the two systems likely would be near a wash"

That point goes straight to one of my favorite things that I exposed in this entire mess (and that's REALLY saying something.)

It's at this link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2005/07/sewerwatch-exclusive.html

In that (2005!...pre-recall) story, I first exposed that, in their terribly flawed in-town vs. out-of-town comparison (that the Coastal Commission forced them to do), the 2004 LOCSD Board (and staff) deliberately failed to include the multi-millions of dollars of public park stuff that THEY had built in to their sewer plant/Tri-W disaster, and HAD they included that money in the comparison, out-of-town would have proven to be MUCH cheaper, just like the recently County showed in their 4-year/$7 million analysis.

My personal favorite part of the 1999 - 2005 LOCSD Board?

It's NOT that they deliberately lied to the citizens of Los Osos over and over and over and over again.

Nope.

It's that they deliberately lied to the citizens of Los Osos over and over and over and over again, using the citizens' money to do it!

Gawd, I love Los Osos!

Richdora writes:

"Why folks do not want to calmly discuss their BK options is a mystery to me as such discussions will inform, educate and in the end resolve the BK."

See. If y'all had a web site, you (and 'toons and Mike... and, after that, I run out of names) could be having that discussion over there.

Alon writes:

"What is the topic here?"

Blame Richdora, as usual. They don't have their own web site, so s/he has to post their wildly off-topic cra... errrr.... stuff on a site that actually gets read.

The Razor said...

Ann, calling for accountability is fairly common among different people. I believe you once called for Truth & Reconciliation hearings at one point "to hold [the pre-recall CSD board] accountable." Can I assume we were separated at birth?

Whether we're talking about a mostly anonymous non-profit group's unsubstantiated blog comments or we're talking about people who invoke murdered children to make an unsubstantiated political point, these people need to be held accountable.

Mike said...

...so far, the first valid test of acountability was the return of $2,000,000 to the District from the misappropriation of taxes by the CSD5... hmmm, wasn't that facilitated by the Tax Payers Watch organization...??? I don't remember te PZLDF accomplishing anything except for having their legal fees paid by the same Lisa led CSD... I don't recall the Rock, the Sewer Watch abtaining any accountability... nor any of Al's and Julie's lawsuits... all those few vocal folks accomplished was to add to the noise pollution surrounding the comunity... the pre-recall Boards were completely above board, except in the mindlessness of the few...

Ann would like to think those few were not listened to in their personal agendas against the Tri-W... They fought against every design, site selection with every other argument they could muster and fabricate... They never wanted any sewer in Los Osos and you can bet they will fight against any sewer anywhere...!!!! To argue otherwise is simply the same frustrated few who are not going to get their personal ways...!!!! Ann may call that "projection" or whatever, but she has always had her own spin on the decisions she personally did not agree with... She is waaaaay out side the feelings of the majority of this community....

Oh well, a sewer, a GRAVITY sewer, is headed our way...

Sewertoons said...

Thank you Mike, and Richard earlier. The bankruptcy is what is ahead of us, so start waking up and looking at what is going on here.

Ann, you are changing the subject! "There were loads of people at CSD meetings for months, even years…" Does anyone recall Ann, Gail, Lisa, Julie, Chuck, etc. at the 2000-2001 meetings? THAT'S the point - BEFORE the contracts were signed! Contracts are for a specific project. Doing a protest AFTER a project is selected is a little late, don't you think? On the timeline of lawsuits provided by Sorrel Marks at the Water Board, I don't see Lisa/Julie (in the form of CCLO) appear until 2003. Was Julie NO SEWER then?

Another point is — there can be protests — BUT without LEADERS — Gail, Julie, Lisa, Chuck — (who I'm betting had no interest in sewers in 2000), they fizzle and go away.

So the train wreck occurred by not stopping the project at the appropriate time — pre-2001 OR EVEN having stopped it at a bad time — 2005 — by NOT continuing with the collection system (to avoid the bankruptcy and the taking of the project by the State) — and moving the location. (Measure B addressed location, not collection system type.)

Also, it's not specific enough to say oh, a LOT of protesters were there, as how many of those protesters were simply NO SEWER? They do not count — no sewer is NO option, due to the Water Board rulings. AND — how many is "many?"

I see two distinct groupings of protests — later of course, in 2005: those who wanted the plant out of town and those who wanted Step. There were crossovers, but the signs around town simply said, MOVE THE SEWER." I didn't see "STEP THE SEWER." Hence the County mistake at the beginning thinking that moving it was enough.

Ann, you are dreaming!! "Best guesstimates" from the CSD on comparing Step and Gravity? How on earth could the little CSD's "guesstimate comparison" satisfy you or the naysayers when the through one that the County did - was soundly REJECTED as biased by those who practice the religion of Step? C'mon - any effort in that direction by the CSD would have been screamed at as rigged and unfair - just as the full-on, lots of money spent County's survey was! Step isn't more economical for the homeowner on his/her personal end of the costs no matter how you slice it and it is simply unfeasible in the areas with the 25' streets. Step was deemed a possibility with a not well-researched (but appealing) grasp on cost to gain local control over wastewater.

Ann, what do you think were the reasons for the CSD abandoned Step in favor of gravity back in 2000-2001?

ron, I know that you don't live here, but what the community WANTS at Tri-W is a PARK.

M said...

Uh Sewertoons, the community didn't know what was going on in 2000-2001. We still thought we were getting $38.50 a month. Had the Tribune been doing their job things might have been much different. We didn't know until it was too late that a sewerplant at Tri-W was going to require so much added expense until it was too late. We were told Tri-W was the only place we could put a sewer. The reason step was abandoned for gravity in 2001? Crawling in bed with MWH might have had something to do with that. Sewertoons, you were not here prior to 2005. Please do not preach to us what was going on prior to that. I know you must have some sort of cookie waiting for you when this is all said and done, but I would hate to think it is coming at our expense.
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

Oops, I meant to write "thorough" and wrote "though" instead.

Oh, so the blame is now on the Tribune, M?

How about CSD meetings? Did they hold them — yes, and did you or the others who criticize the Old Board attend in 1999 or 2000 or 2001? Did the switching of technologies and sites occur in closed session? Were you paying attention? (Do you presently go to CSD meetings or watch them on cable now?)

Crawling into bed with MWH? Really M, you need to stop buying the Gail propaganda. And that is what it is, an attempt to stop the present project with slime and innuendo.

I am not preaching, I am asking the questions that you should be asking yourselves. Stop putting the blame on the wrong parties when you should simple say, "wow, I slipped up, I should have paid attention." But it is always easy to blame someone or something else, rather than admit some blame for what in this case looks to be inattention and inaction.

I am getting no "cookie" as you put it, unless paying for the last sewer, and this sewer, and a bankruptcy is what you call a "cookie."

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

You say (again): "So the train wreck occurred by not stopping the project at the appropriate time — pre-2001 OR EVEN having stopped it at a bad time — 2005 — by NOT continuing with the collection system (to avoid the bankruptcy and the taking of the project by the State) — and moving the location. (Measure B addressed location, not collection system type.)

Again Lynette, the state didn't take the project. Blakeslee put the sewer in AB2701 in secret, he had Gail Wilcox and the County help write it. The County did take the project.

AND, Stan did say to the "Lisa" board, "WE LEFT YOU WITH NOTHING!!" and the "Lisa" board filed for bankruptcy "protection" which Stan, Richard and Gordon set them up for to begin with, so don't blame the wrong side. Thank Richard, Gordon, Stan, and Pandora for this complete mess.

AND, your good friends of the recalled board didn't have the required 218 vote to continue with the SRF loan. There was no money to continue in 2005.

AND, Pandora did lie to the community regarding Tri-W. She knew there wasn't enough land for the ponds and she knew the RWQCB said no, she lied.

Pandora and her recalled board are the ones who cost the PZ homeowners dearly. I'm sure she's happy about that. The high price will certainly clear out all the riff raff -- just as she has always wanted. (I think she is the real riff raff though). She can plant trees to try to look good in the community, but in reality we will lose our trees with the gravity digging trenches. Oh, what a show!

AND, BTW, the contractors knew that the required 218 vote wasn't held too for the Tri-W project, yet they decided to proceed anyway. They had full disclosure on that issue.

And where did all that $6.5 million first installment of the SRF loan go? Was there ever an audit?

Someone needs to investigate our DA sooner rather than later.

Mike said...

Was the Commuity Servce District legally approved by the voters of Los Osos...???

Were the pre-recall Directors legally elected over the previous 8 years...???

Did they develop a full project Plan, purchase the needed property and obtained every permit required...???

Then after the recall and legal election of 3 engineers, weren't the Lisa led Directors in charge...??? Didn't they then have a Plan...???

Surely they would have done an audit to know what funds they had...and weren't Lisa and Julie on the pre-recall Board and should have already known what funds they had to work with...??? During the re-call campaign, they mentioned having a Plan... Did they have a Plan...??? Since Lisa and Julie had been on the Board for 2 years and had been to all the State Water Board meetings, didn't they already know what the requirements and restrictions were...???

If you were to undertake a hostile takeover of a company, wouldn't you have had a Plan, wouldn't you find out what the financials were...or would you "assume" you had funds and would then spend those funds on lawyers instead of proceeding with your Plan....??? or perhaps the only Plan was the bankruptcy of the company...???

You couldn't blame the old company, you were the one who ran the hostile takeover, the entire company was now your responsibility... You should have known the risks before shutting down the production... unless the whole Plan was to destroy the production... It would have been your sole decision... You could cry and shout how badly the old company was run, but bottom line was that the decisions were yours, because you wanted them that badly...!!!!

Why would you be surprised that the old company and customers became upset and disagreed with your decisions...??? Isn't that how you mounted your hostile takeover...???? But now the company has been gutted and you are no longer in charge... wasn't that the Plan after all...???

GetRealOsos said...

Mike,

Why don't you who ask so many questions out of guilt answer just this one out of knowledge:

How come the County lists the $6.5 million SRF loan repayment on the USDA Letter of Intent -- WHILE -- the State is seeking repayment of the same loan in bankruptcy...?

You can't ask for repayment of the loan TWICE. The County can't ask for it -- it's already in bankruptcy for dimes on the dollar.

You know so much about bankruptcy (you caused this one), what's going to happen with the loan? Is the USDA loan being used to pay back the illegal SRF loan?

BONUS QUESTION: Where's the audit for the SRF $6.5 million loan?

Well, "Answer Man"?

Mike said...

You don't get it... you are only a sorry lost soul in this sewer charade and in life...

...go ask Sam where the State Audit went... but before that, ask Lisa why she did not have an audit done... you'll find the answers you have turned a deaf ear to and that you don't want to hear...

Sewertoons said...

In my opinion, TW would be VERY happy to see that audit!

(Not the response that you expected, is it GRO?)

Thanks Mike!

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Churadogs said...

Mikee sez:" but she has always had her own spin on the decisions she personally did not agree with... She is waaaaay out side the feelings of the majority of this community...."

Oops, wrong again, Mikee. Here's what I wanted (and wrote about) from the day it became clear that the Ponds of Avalon were DOA and that the CSD was not being truthful about Tri-W being the only option -- (1)Accurate (truthful) side-by-side evaluation of sewer systems, (2) complete with best guestimate of prices, including in town/ out of town, STEP/ Gravity,(3) followed by a "vote" as to which system the community wanted to "buy."

That's obviously also what the community wanted, (and got) minus one item : an "affordable" system. That was never possible, the best anyone could do with that is "more" affordable. Not one of those wishes was extreme or wierd or "outside" of what the community wanted.The great tragedy is that it took a recall/engineered trainwreck to get what should have been a no-brainer from day one.

Your problem, Mikee, is that you've consistently conflated the tiniest handful of people (maybe 3-4 people who genuinely don't want any sewer system) with the majority of the community who wanted a sewer system and wanted it to be honest and fair. They're NOT one and the same.

Toonces sez:"Does anyone recall Ann, Gail, Lisa, Julie, Chuck, etc. at the 2000-2001 meetings?"

I wuz there. And wuz there during the 40% over bid contracts were being discussed. Yup, yup. That's when things got really interesting.(Had you moved to L.O. by then?)

and sez:"Best guesstimates" from the CSD on comparing Step and Gravity? How on earth could the little CSD's "guesstimate comparison" satisfy you or the naysayers when the through one that the County did - was soundly REJECTED as biased by those who practice the religion of Step? C'mon - any effort in that direction by the CSD would have been screamed at as rigged and unfair "

Once again, you're clearly unfamiliar with what I've been calling for for years. Let me repeat: Chinese menu, best guestimate on prices, VOTE to chose the one you want, Done. Move on. Had that been done waaay back (and Bruce Buel clearly had the numbers, see Ron's link, above), protesters would not have had a leg to stand on.

As for why the original CSD didn't go back to the community and fess up the truthful DOA-ness of the Ponds of Avalon Scheme and seriously and honestly re-assess it all, and as for why the pre-recall CSD did what they did, and the Medean FEROCITY with which they clung to Tri-W at all costs, yea unto risking (attempting) the LAFCO destruction of the CSD itself and hammering the community they were supposed to be serving, still remains a puzzle to me. Perhaps Ron will uncover that most interesting missing dot.

And, Richard, Yup, I'd like both that "Blakeslee" Audit to be done AND the Breach of Contract lawsuit to continue. Doubt that either of those will happen, but I can dream, I suppose.

Richard LeGros said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Razor said...

Richard sez, "I have concluded that you [...] are delusional idiots incapable of any rational thought."

Right back at you. See you next week.

Ron said...

Ann writes:

"... from the day it became clear that the Ponds of Avalon were DOA..."

That's ANOTHER one of my favorite parts of this entire story.

"The day it became clear that the Ponds of Avalon were DOA" was less than two months after the Karners first rolled out their fake project.

The Karners first popped out their fake "better, cheaper, faster" "plan" in November of 1997.

BY JANUARY 1998, there was an official letter from the RWQCB to the Karners telling them that their made-up project wasn't going to work... less than two months after they first rolled it out.

I show that (among many places) at this link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2009/07/exclusive-sewerwatch-investigation-how.html

And HAD the Karners simply heeded that letter then, the county's "ready to go" project would have been built in 1998.

That's ALL that had to happen, is Pandora just had to listen to that letter... but, of course, had she, she (and all of her friends) wouldn't have been able to make all of that cash that they've made over the past decade-plus, due to their self-created disaster, as I show at this link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2010/07/cha-friggin-ching-for-los-osos-project.html

Ann writes:

"As for why the original CSD didn't go back to the community and fess up the truthful DOA-ness of the Ponds of Avalon Scheme and seriously and honestly re-assess it all, and as for why the pre-recall CSD did what they did, and the Medean FEROCITY with which they clung to Tri-W at all costs, yea unto risking (attempting) the LAFCO destruction of the CSD itself and hammering the community they were supposed to be serving, still remains a puzzle to me. Perhaps Ron will uncover that most interesting missing dot."

I have uncovered those dots. The reason they did that, was to make money.

Again, Pandora, Paavo and all of their "better, cheaper, faster" consulting friends created the disaster in 1999 by killing the county's "ready to go" project, and then pursued one disastrous, embarrassing "project" after another for 10-plus-years-and-counting, and were/are able to cash check after check after check SOLEY due to the fact that they created the Los Osos disaster starting in 1998.

Helluva scam, and it worked!

Like I wrote, "Cha-friggin-ching!"

I'm so impressed.

M said...

Gone already Richard? Geez, we barely knew ye. So long.Goodbye.Adios.Aloha.Later.
Sincerely, M

Mike said...

...well, the sewer is coming and since you all have all the answers, I'm sure you won't be surprised by the monthly bills and the bankruptcy bill... of course that supposes you actually own property in Los Osos... that leaves ron and aaron laughing since they don't own property here...

...but apparently you're all happy with the coming sewer costs and the bankruptcy... keep the checkbooks handy...

I do thank Richard for all he has done for this community...!!!!