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Wednesday, December 15, 2010

End Game, Part Two? Three?


The results of the failed Rates & Charges protest vote hearing at the BOS: 
50% plus one of property owners needed for a successful protest
There were 5,262 notices sent out.
2,632 were needed for a successful protest
801 valid protests were actually received.
15% of the homeowners in the PZ protested

There’s no way of knowing how many people received the long, rambling, incomprehensive 2-page, double-sided notification letter dense with type and with protest vote information buried deep in the bottom half of the third page and figured it was just argle-bargle and tossed it out. As intended.

Public comment notes: 

Mr. Murphy of Reclamator fame was there “on behalf of the people of Los Osos,” wearing a black cowboy hat, black leather jacket and sporting a spiffy grizzled goatee. God alone in his infinite, mysterious wisdom, knows what Murphy thought to do or say or accomplish.  Until he plopped some sort of letter with signatures and a fancy-looking seal on it into the overhead projector and proceeded to announce that Los Osos was in line to receive piles of money from some really swell sounding organization with the words “water” and “green” and “international” in it and we’re talking PILES of money here, Midas-like piles, more money than what’s offered by Publisher’s Clearing House with their promises of vast riches, like BILLIONS, no, wait, multi—billions, TRILLIONS, free money just waiting to rain down on Los Osos, all sworn to by some people or other who, yes, right there, actually signed this here piece of paper, three signatures, look, right there, it’s official, all for the asking in this year of our Lord, 2010, money raining down from the south seas, Yes, Yes, money, piles of money and international and green and water and some signatures somewhere.  Right.  Sure. Swell hat, Murph.

The rest of the public comments were the usual:  Questions about how this “vote” was set up and run, complaints of confusion over the procedure, complaints of not using best science (Paavo’s old “let the best technology rise to the top” ploy – Bwahahahah), demands of a neutral oversight/audit of what this project has morphed into (the old back-scratching Paavo/MWH/Wallace Group/ Corollo two-step? No design-build for you, Los Osos!),  worries about affordability, questions about why the cost of the project was so quickly dismissed, protests over the violation of the original Mission Statement, requests that the BOS verify whether Dana Ripley’s plan actually would be $50 million cheaper and would be capped and guaranteed (a simple enough thing to check, one would think, if one were actually interested in a claim of $50 mil), questions about what’s going to happen to people who can’t afford this, what will happen to defaulted properties by people who can’t afford this, will those costs be dumped on the rest of the homeowners,  protests about voting ourselves out of our own homes, objections that the water/sewer numbers for commercial properties are wrong, that homeowners are subsidizing the commercial users, (Will Clemmens later noted that the (slightly incorrect) numbers used now can be adjusted later from guesstimates to real water billing records, while one wit noted that with huge amounts of discretionary income being removed from the community, a lot of the businesses will close and won’t be using any water so if the numbers are wrong, it won’t matter anymore),a non-protest paean by Joyce Albright, lauding Paavo and the Board and dismissing the “obstructionists,” a protest by Keith Wimer of the Sustainability Group because the project doesn’t mitigate for financial devastation, that there has been no affordability studies done, no life cycle costs analysis done even though it’s supposed to be done, a claim that even high-tech on-site individual systems may now be cheaper than this project, yet not allowed by the RWQCB (more Bwahahahah), objections that Los Osos will have the highest water costs in the country, pleads that real-time issues with the different water purveyors be fixed before proceeding, notice of the non-protest  by the CSD and the information that the CSD will now be starting work to have the Help Us We’re Poor and Dying Here cap in hand to try to get grants because the cost will hammer the town into the dust. 

The BOS response to the really serious questions about people losing their homes because they cannot afford this project?  Silence. Followed by Supervisor Gibson’s terse lecture to the audience that affordability is NOT an issue here.  This project will be what it will be.  Period.

And the palpable relief from the Board that they would no longer have to listen to all these pathetic whiners and complainers and “obstructionists” any more.  Done.  End game.

Moved that the rates and charges ordinance be adopted: 5-0.  Adjourned.

You Need To Say That Again, The BOS Is No Longer Listening

Bev De-Witt Moylan read the following to the BOS during public comment at yesterday’s Rates & Charges hearing. I’m not sure Joyce Albright was in the audience at the time.  I hope she was since she needed to hear Bev’s comments. Bev’s metaphor is one both citizens and elected officials should always keep in mind.  Canaries in coal mines can be dismissed as “obstructionists,” and whiners and painted in other negative colors, but the conditions in the mine they are warning about with their deaths still need to be addressed.  Posted with permission.


During a workshop on cancer I attended last spring a marriage and family therapist compared cancer in the body to the acting out child in a family.  Like the acting-out child cancer tends to get people’s attention she said.  It signals that some aspect of the patient’s life is out of balance.

The therapist said she loves acting-out children because they are the bravest members of their families.  They are the ones who know the family secrets; they cannot tolerate them; and simply by virtue of their courage and honesty they cannot help sending out warning signals that something is terribly out of balance in the family.

Not surprisingly families view these children as the problem she said.  The acting-out child is an inconvenient embarrassment. The family wants someone to cure the child, to remove the child, to make the child stop doing what he is doing so the family can live out their dysfunctional patterns in unspoken agreement. 

The family investment in separating the acting-out child from themselves is great.  Each family member’s ability to continue to ignore the truth depends on it, the therapist told us. 

And so it is with the intrepid people who appear thanklessly before you every week at great personal hardship to be a voice for the underrepresented and unrepresented in Los Osos.  With the na├»ve hope that perhaps this time said in this way you will hear, they repeat the secret aloud that something is terribly wrong.  For that they are scolded, demeaned, threatened, silenced, removed, and apologized for.

These inconvenient embarrassments are courageous community members who risk scorn and public humiliation every time they appear.  You perceive frustration; they perceive indifference.  You perceive hostility; they perceive dysfunction.  I respectfully request that this Board consider that what you perceive as acting-out is the desperate exercise of constitutional rights by citizens trying to defend themselves and their neighbors from a government that appears to be coercive and non-responsive.  Scolding, threats, and shows of force only cement that perception.  Respecting citizens by listening to their opinions, and responding to their concerns, even when you have to work hard to do it, is part of being a public servant. 

69 comments:

Mike said...

Just a note of clarification Ann... canaries in a mine are there to prevent deaths... but it could be taken to the Los Osos extremist view that canaries should not be allowed in a mine that could cause their deaths... Using the Los Osos activists illogic; Move the Canaries out of the Mine!!!

Yup, the Los Osos obstructionists never were trying to come up with an economically feasible sewer, no Ann, the Los Osos Obstructionists have always been about preventing ANY SEWER... and cost be damned...!!! You know it, we know it and so does the BOS, including you will note, Mr. Meacham...!!!! Passed 5 to Zero...!!!

Have a nice day, the rest of us are rejoicing every bit as happily as Al Barrow was following the recall...!!!!

WE won't forget or forgive the obstruction as we pay our coming sewer bills... Thanks Obstructionists, you certainly saddled this community with a financial burden and will force some very good people to have to move away...!!!!

FOGSWAMP said...

So, what return percentage this time around?

Does anyone know?

Sewertoons said...

A piece of Ann's writing above:
"-requests that the BOS verify whether Dana Ripley’s plan actually would be $50 million cheaper and would be capped and guaranteed (a simple enough thing to check, one would think-"

Ripley would not be the one performing this scope of work. If you recall he came in under the authority of the Lyles Group. So what he claims cannot be guaranteed by him as he does not have the horsepower to run a project this big. He can claim whatever he likes, he can't be put to the test here.

And to back up what Mike is saying, I copied this out of a document prepared by Sorrel Marks and sent to me last year some time. It was regarding sewer costs over the years and what lawsuits along the timeline have resulted in:

2001 $84.6 million Final Project Report by Montgomery Watson

Obstructionism costs money.

Sewertoons said...

FOG, Ann stated it above, 15% protested.

FOGSWAMP said...

Thanks Toons.

T'was just a senior moment with a 218 vote in mind.

Sewertoons said...

You are welcome FOG. I am subject to those myself. Have a hard time accepting that I qualify for the "geezer" rates at various venues.

GetRealOsos said...

Found the letter from Stan and Gordon.

Click here: http://www.mediafire.com/?y4653iryxahvy97

Churadogs said...

Mike sez:"no Ann, the Los Osos Obstructionists have always been about preventing ANY SEWER..."

Once again, you are making stuff up. And your statement proves you have stopped thinking. What I and anyone who knows anything about the history of this project is this: There are a handful -- literally a handful out of a town of 15,000 folks, like a number you could count on the fingers of two hands, if that -- of "obstrucitonists" who do not see any need for a sewer. Handful, Mike. Tiny handful. That's what you know and I know and everyone else knows. But you wish to pretend this tiny handful represents a huge chunk of the community. That's dishonest, Mike, and you know and I know it. and anyone familiar with this blog knows it, too. Intellectually dishonest, plain old Dishonest-dishonest, in other words, a lie,Mike, a lie, as in making stuff up. Which you do all the time.

As for people who object to how this process was done or the project itself, the breakdown is: X% of that group want a STEP system, Y% want either STEP or Gravity but want the sewer plant out of the center of town. BUT both X & Y want a sewer, which makes them "pro sewer" not "anti-sewer." Their arguments are over type and placement. But neither are anti-sewer obstructionists. They're all pro-sewer and their sewer choices are a bit different from yours, but they're not anti. Once again, declaring them "obstructionists" is dishonest, a lie, and you're making stuff up. Again.

Toonces sez:"Ripley would not be the one performing this scope of work. If you recall he came in under the authority of the Lyles Group."

so let's get the Lyles Group to guarantee the project and price.

GRO sez:"Found the letter from Stan and Gordon."

I couldn't access it for some reason. But, tell us, was the number they used 30%? And what was the date on that? I got to wondering if it was Pre-CSD or Post WMH, ie. 2000?

Alon Perlman said...

Would Ya believe Fifty? Amazing letter OSO
"Original Sewer Obstructionists"
But I don't get the 2011 point-Seems they were concerned with Affordability and wanted to do something about it.

FOGSWAMP said...

Thanks for the link GRO, interesting read.

"The economic impact of this sewer will devastate our community (underlined), 50% if not more of this community may be forced to sell their homes and move because of the high costs of the sewer".

Yes, they seemingly cared at that point in time.

Remember, thereafter they soon became known the dream team, like "save the dream". So the letter could have been just a "prophetic dream".

The costly problem occurred when they cultivated the skill to remain in the lucid state of dreaming.

I guess the disturbing nightmare that caused them to wake up and pay attention was the recall.

Now we are in the costly dramatic stage of healing the dream

Ron said...

I'm with Ann, I can't seem to get that file either. I see "1997wilson.pdf"... but I don't see a link to it.

All I see is "Save to my Account"

Do I have to create an account to get it? I REALLY want to read it.

Also, GRO, you wouldn't happen to know if Budd has a 1999-ish document that shows a payment from the LOCSD to the SWA Group. would you?

My guess is there are several, but all I need is one with LOCSD letterhead showing any kind of payment to the SWA Group.

VERY important.

If so please e-mail it to me (contact info on my blog) or, if I can figure out how to get it, post it here.

Those are the documents that the LOCSD won't give me, because it will show that their jobs are based solely on a scam.

Muchos gracias, amigo.

GetRealOsos said...

Ann and Ron,

I will try to re-post the letter. Sorry.

The letter was written on June 11, 1997.

Yes, they said 50% if not more people would be forced to sell because of the price tag of $145-$200 a month.

Also interesting, Stan and Gordon say the County acknowledged that the sewer may not change nitrate levels for 45 years if at all.

My point was why the complete turn around from Stan and Gordon? Was it because MWH came into the picture handing out bundles of money (like Pandora was asking for -- almost $1 million.) And MWH getting busted for this elsewhere?

Makes one wonder!

(And Ron, I don't know if Budd has the info you want. He probably does. I don't know him. I suppose you could email him and ask. Someone here has to have his phone or email address. I'll try to find out if you can't reach him.)

Sewertoons said...

Ann says, "so let's get the Lyles Group to guarantee the project and price."

Maybe they would have done that already when they were interviewed by the County to try to make the sale? Maybe they cannot offer that because they cannot guarantee a cap on the costs.Remember, Ripley can't do this alone and he does not speak for the Lyles Group. Who, by the way, did not protest not getting onto the short list.

Ann, as for sewer obstructionism, I was floored to hear one of the Sustainability Group's comments on Tuesday. The "technologic and technological debacle" is driven by the nitrates in the bay and the bay isn't polluted, you (Water Board and County) don't know if we even need a sewer. Someone else said why have a sewer if you can clean up the pollution at the well head.

At this point the obstructionism seems to be stopping this sewer for a Step collection system. Had we a Step collection system, my bet is that we'd be hearing more of what I posted above.

As to the letter, I downloaded it and was hit with a bunch of porn popups afterward.

Let's also remember that the "X%" number that wants a Step system is very, very small. Disproportionally vocal on pushing it, however.

Mike said...

Just a note of caution to those taking a letter or message from 1997... You might be taking comments out of context and making incorrect assumptions... Situations may have also changed...

Not sure why a couple of you are still blaming only the pre-recall Board and NOT seeing what financial damage the CSD5 Board created...

Does any of your "investigation" amount to anything more than a witch hunt... and in case you haven't noticed, the CSD does not now and will never again have control of the sewer design/selection...

Yawn, you guys must have nothing better to do now that the County is firmly in control...

Ron said...

GRO wites:

"My point was why the complete turn around from Stan and Gordon? Was it because MWH came into the picture handing out bundles of money"

Not only is that an excellent point, but it really seems to be coming down to that. Nothing else makes sense.

I've shown, repeatedly, that numerous official documents, throughout 1998, told the Solution Group crowd -- Stan, Pandora, Gordon, etc. -- that their "better, cheaper, faster" disaster wasn't going to work, but they pushed it, HARDCORE, anyway (I mean, who does that?), and then, when their scam worked, they immediately started cashing in on it, AFTER it killed the county's 1998 "ready to go project."

Well, at least I can show the Karners started to immediately cash in on their deliberately-made disaster, but no one else.

So it looks like we're pretty much at this point of the cop story: The point where the cops say to the "perps," "You know, unless you start talking, you're going to take this entire rap yourself."

I mean, PLEASE tell me that Pandora didn't do ALL of this just for $3,869.04.

GRO writes:

" I don't know if Budd has the info you want. He probably does. I don't know him."

Thank you for that information.

Then, I have a public request for a public records request: If ANYONE out there has a pdf file of a 1999-ish LOCSD document, on LOCSD letterhead, that shows a payment from the LOCSD to the SWA Group, pleeeeeease email it to me: sewerwatch at gmail dot com

In fact, if someone were to e-mail that above mentioned "1997wilson" letter, at that above mentioned email address, I would post it where I post my other documents, and then there would be a direct link to it... that's right: SewiLeaks!

Sewertoons said...

GRO, despite the problems of posting the letter, thank you for doing so.

I will paste in what you wrote earlier about the letter to refresh our minds:

GRO said:
"Why would Stan and Gordon do a complete turn around from the time they wrote to then Pete Wilson about the cost and technology."

"If Stan and Gordon were saying the same thing many years back -- that people would be forced to move because of the extreme cost and that a sewer wouldn't correct nitrate problems etc. -- WHAT changed their minds so when Montgomery Watson Harza and the Tri-W came into the picture?"

"How come they fought for affordability and technology THEN and made a complete turn around with MWH's Tri-W plan?"

Sorry, I meant to finish this but got busy and now I don't have the time. I will answer your questions about the letter as soon as I can.

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette says: "As to the letter, I downloaded it and was hit with a bunch of porn popups afterward."

Lynette, you clever, deceptive little woman.

There is no porn.

YOU JUST DON'T WANT ANYONE LOOKING AT THE LETTER. And YOU don't want to see it. You want to scare people. And the letter is way too scary for you!

If there's porn on your computer then talk to Lou!

You don't want any truth out there. We all can see that.

P.S. Those comments you made on the Trib blog about Bo and Lacey (and Piper) are pretty darn low. ALL you have is attacks. That's it and you are exposing how very sick you are.

Mike said...

...ahhh GRO... there were several folks (not just 'toons)commenting in the Trib... and very pointedly that they didn't appreciate the Coopers and Piper...

There are quite a large number in this community who do not like Gail, the Coopers, Piper, Bev, Julie, Al, Jeff... and quite frankly, they have earned every bit of the scorn by not respecting the BOS or this community which is why we wouldn't mind seeing them move to Orange County....!!!!!

Do you need help moving GRO....!!!!

Sewertoons said...

I'm back, sorry for the delay.

I read the letter. It is dated June 11, 1997. I will send it to anyone who wants to e-mail me: sewertoons@gmail.com.

It is a plea to Wilson, then governor, for help to pay for a sewer that the County proposed. Why is this letter scary? No idea. It isn't.

Why did they do a turnaround? Because they wised up. What they initially proposed wasn't going to work. They HOPED it would work, they TRIED to make it work. When it wouldn't work, instead of suing the County, the State, the Water Board, knowing full well THAT was futile due to the CAWS case losing against the Water Board, they came up with a plan that DID WORK and was PERMITTED and FUNDED. They understood that there WAS NO CHEAPER WAY TO DO THIS. A lesson the Lisa board failed to grasp.

They made an impassioned pleas to lower the cost having used all other avenues to do so. Please don't tell me that the nuttiness of the supposed collusion with MWH, that the nitrates won't be fixed by Tri-W or the present project, or the Broderson objections are based on this letter for money!

Sewertoons said...

Mike, I think GRO has already moved!

Mike said...

Thanks 'toons... it's a waste of time to play with those bit players...

The sewer is going to be built inspite of those foolish enough to continue to nitpik the process and/or claiming there is no need for a sewer or blaming everyone they disagree with...

Sewertoons said...

Yeah, I guess it is a waste. And they have nothing left to do now - but wait. To pay for the sewer AND the bankruptcy.

Churadogs said...

GRO sez (of Lynette) "P.S. Those comments you made on the Trib blog about Bo and Lacey (and Piper) are pretty darn low. ALL you have is attacks. That's it and you are exposing how very sick you are."

I've written before of the "Voice" that comes through loud and clear, even with people thinking they're "anonymous." It's always there and goes right to the heart of the writer's basic character. And there are several posters here, including a constant "anonymous," with a voice that's soul-deep Ugly On A Stick. It's an interesting phenomenon. Can't escape that "voice."

Re the infamous letter. Interesting. 50%. Wow. and 1997. earlier than I recall.And they were guestimating even then of charges up to $200, which is about where the county is targeting this project. Thanks for tracking that down. Presume Ron will post it in his cache. Now, will be interesting to see if that % guestimate has gone up or down vis a vis the present project and the updated census numbers.

GetRealOsos said...

Ann,

Can you imagine anyone picking on Bo? Now, HE, does speak for the people. HE cares. HE speaks for the seniors who can't possibly come down to the BOS meetings and are sitting at home getting sick over the cost!! (Some, of course, have died with the stress.)

Lynette sure doesn't care and sure doesn't speak for the community. Neither does Joyce Albright or Mike.

Regarding the "letter" -- it is interesting that Gibons doesn't think the cost will force people out of their homes, but Stan and Gordon thought 50%. Big difference! And notice they also stated "alleged" nitrate pollution. Heck, they even mentioned the sand at the Tri-W location. All interesting I think.


Lynette,

You say, "nuttiness of the supposed collusion with MWH, that the nitrates won't be fixed by Tri-W"

Lynette, if the nitrates are from the farm run-off (which the STATE WATER Board NOW claims -- but you know more than they do of course), and nitrates from pet waste, and Men's Colony, people living on boats in Morro Bay, nitrates from plants, and on and on -- how in the world can MWH's plant fix any nitrate problem? ... can't and won't happen!!

Sewertoons said...

GRO, nitrates in the aquifer. A-Q-U-I-F-E-R. That place where we get our drinking water (well, not you anyway). Nitrates, caffein, drugs, etc. ALL in the aquifer. (But we all know that cows drink a lot of caffein, right? Yeah, let's blame the cows.)

Ann, we will be paying the $6.486 mil back on the SRF loan - but the claim is in for $8,636, 565.57, which includes that loan, the interest from the petition date and the $$ on a $2 mil grant PLUS whatever else is in the bankruptcy. That will be in addition to County sewer costs.

What mention of the sand at Tri-W? The reference looks like it is to Broderson.

Chris said...

GRO: Give it a rest. The No Sewer, Move the Sewer, Not-in-my-lifetime sewer obstructionists have failed again!

Failure "When your best just isn't good enough."

Thanks for the laughs!

FOGSWAMP said...

The three that signed that letter sure seem to fit Barbara Wolcotts' definition of an UltraOppositionist.

A group of people who would stop at nothing to keep the Los Osos bay polluting.

I wonder what her editor thought of that letter. I read somewhere that the editor of Small Town Perfect Storm lived in Los Osos, so may have seen a copy and just ignored it.

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

I was referring to any nitrate or pollution in the bay. Obviously.

As far as the ground water, I'm sure you like the ground water in Morro Bay much better!! They have their gravity, leaking MWH pipes. (Have you seen the videos of the leakage?) You can go anywhere and find pollution in ground water with any gravity system. They all leak!! But you believe "out of sight, out of mind".

And how about the horse farm back off Highland? Not in the PZ of course. And, oh, those homes outside the PZ -- they don't contribute to any kind of pollution because the water board "believes" they don't.

You will NEVER convince me that this sewer scandal is nothing more than a land grab and developers dream. It's the biggest hoax I could ever imagine.

And I'll keep repeating this:
A less intrusive collection method wouldn't harm all the trees, the Chumash remains, and would be less costly so many more people could remain in their homes.

You are only wanting MWH to line the pockets of you and your friends. There is proof of "appearance of conflict of interest" with Gibson, Paavo, etc. etc. -- Give us a break.

Churadogs said...

It was interesting how "polluting the Bay" became conflated with nitrates in the upper aquifer, and we heard a great many rallying cries that we had to stop polluting the bay, with scary claims of septic tanks leaking raw sewage into the bay & etc.When the Kitts study came in with their DNA numbers everyone sorta went, Uh, well, nevermind, and suddenly you didn't hear any more about it. Ditto with CMC leaks, Morro Bay's troubles, when it became clear that the issue wasn't Los Osos septics polluting the bay, except in tiny amounts from homes sitting smack dab in high groundwater right on the bay & etc. But it was a useful scare tactic, again with little or no "science," but useful for pushing forward the badly misconceived 83-13 resolution and, of course, for attempting to brand any and all critics as "anti-sewer obstructionists" who ARE POLLUTING THE NAITIONAL ESTUARY BAY EEEK!

Speaking of which, I see we have a "new" voice, "Chris", who has drunk the A.S.O Kool Aide. Anyone who uses that phrase gives himself away as intellectually lazy and part and parcel of The Big Lie and/or admitting that he's just another tool of marketing based "strategies." Talk about making one laugh.

Mike said...

HaHaHa... Ann, you have drunken so much Los Osos water that you are now paranoid as well as having grown into just an old woman with no life out side your septic tank...!!!!

Another voice...??? You should have opened your closed mind and realized there were a very large population on this community who disagree with you and the babble you spew... You haven't heard from all those who disagree with you and the batshit crazies you cheer on in the quest to halt any sewer in Los Osos...

Please don't try to tell us again that you really want a sewer just with all the strings you attach... No Ann, YOU speak very clearly...!!!! YOU have never wanted a sewer, because you are simply befuddled person who for some reason believed Gail and not the many who developed a real PLAN, complete with permits, contractors and funding...!!!

I welcome "Chris" as another "voice" of reason who has seen through the obstructionism and who YOU do not want to hear... There are many more out here who very much disagree with you... Maybe you should learn to actually listen to the real community instead of trying to find fault...

Ron said...

That letter is hil-ar-i-ous!

Here's a direct link:

http://slocreek.com/original_obstructionists.pdf

[Thanks to the people that sent me that pdf, and, sorry folks, no porn pop-ups associated with that link. My apologies.]

"WE THE UNDERSIGNED WILL BE COERCED TO EVALUATE THE FORCED SALE OF OUR HOMES BECAUSE OF THIS UNFUNDED, MANDATED SEWER. PLEASE HELP US."

-- Stan Gustafson
-- David Mayfield
-- Gordon Hensley

June 11, 1997

- - -

AAAhahahahaha!

Payback's a bitch, eh, guys?

Well, fellas, ol' P.Wil wasn't much help, but ol. P. Na-K. sure was!

In one of her maaaaannnnnnyyyy newsletters, published just a few months after that letter:

"Solution Group members are... Stan Gustafson... David Mayfield... Gordon Hensley"

And to top off the hilarity, according to that newsletter, David Mayfield is a "Mental Health Counselor."

Uh... Mr. Mayfield, meet Ms. Nash-Karner.

And, of course, the "$71 million" project that Dave, Stan, and Gordon are whining about in that letter, was the County's "ready to go" project, that they all killed, along with Pandora, in 1999 (at a cost of some $6 million to SLO COUNTY TAXPAYERS) after they tricked Los Osos voters into backing their "better, cheaper, faster" disaster.

An anonymous commenter titled 'toons writes:

"Why did they do a turnaround? Because they wised up. What they initially proposed wasn't going to work. They HOPED it would work, they TRIED to make it work. When it wouldn't work, instead of suing the County, the State, the Water Board, knowing full well THAT was futile due to the CAWS case losing against the Water Board, they came up with a plan"

Sniff... sniff.

Such brave souls.

Where's my hanky?... sniff.

By the way, "Mike," I've got some bad news for you.

The bids for the overpass in the south county, "came in much lower than expected on account of the rotten economy — now how’s that for a silver lining?"

Which means that the sewer's probably going to come in cheaper than expected, too.
And that means that not as many people will be forced from their homes, and I know that's just gotta kill ya.

"Chris" writes:

"The... Move the Sewer... sewer obstructionists have failed again! "

"Chris," do me a quick favor. Run down to the middle of Los Osos, and let me know if you see an industrial sewer plant three blocks upwind of downtown.

Now, does that look like a "failure" to you?

Ann writes:

"...admitting that he's just another tool of marketing based "strategies.""

Or the person responsible for those silly little "strategies," herself.

Mike said...

ronnie... to turn the tables on your guess of why the overpass bids may have come in lower than expected... It is quite probable that the CalTrans estimates (say isn't Caltrans where Lisa, Chuck, John and Steve work..???) that quite probably the CalTrans "estimates" were cooked a bit higher than usual... After seeing the poor planning brought to Los Osos by those 4 CalTrans "Engineers and Scientist(?), it is easy to see how mismanaged the SLO CalTrans office has become... but it's your story ronnie, right out of the "straw" you smoke each night...

M said...

Mike, could you please explain to us about how it is that you know what this community is thinking, or which side exactly we all come down on? Or is it simply your small group of friends that feel the way you do. I know that most of the people I talk to are not chomping at the bit for $200+ a month sewer bills to start as soon as possible as you and others are. Doesn't make us anti-sewer obstructionist. Simply means we think there are better alternatives.
Sincerely, M

Mike said...

M... are you dillusional....??? NO ONE wants a $200 per month sewer bill...BUT, thanks to the OBSTRUCTIONISM that took place with the MTS group, that's what we have coming.... I don't like it one damn bit, but when the community allowed Gail, Lisa and Julie to win that recall and then without caring what they should have known would be coming, we watched them destroy the community and force the State to take the project away from the CSD and gave it to the County... Now is waaaayyy too late to continue to fight the County... NO ONE made a case for a better, less costly, approvable system... We all have lost....!!!! I do wish those responsible could be held up to total public scorn....

Chris said...

Ann,

Actually not a new voice, we've just been away for a while.

I do think your memory or rewrite of history is a little off. While you may have forgotten, many of us do remember that YOU had your hand out for a dog park at TriW paid for by the rest of us.

So what is this... A cover up? Are you really a park coconsiprator with Pandora? Ron, are you looking into this?

Speaking of Ron, your comment simply highlights one of the more pitiable aspects of your character. It is obvious to everyone that the only consistent feature in all of your dissatisfying relationships is you.

Thank you both for starting my day off with a laugh.

M said...

Richard, is that you? Sounds like it.

M said...

You didn't answer my question Mike. Course, you usually don't. You just insert your diatribe about obstructionist. Your friends brought us $205 a month with a sewer in the middle of town while taking away the County's sewer at $77 a month. Now tell us all again why you support them so much?
Sincerely, M

Mike said...

Sorry M... apparently you don't read so good... My friends, AND they are the true friends of Los Osos, backed a very legal PLAN, complete with every permit reqired, and were on their way to building a state-of-the-art (not a glorified septic tank) waste water treatment system... It would have complied with the RWQCB mandate, would have prevented any action against the property owners, and would have cost half of out of town sewer... I and my friends are not at all happy about the $200 per month bill that is coming... so go complain to those of YOUR friends who obstructed the Tri-W Plan and caused the $200 per month bill.... Don't look to the rest of the community to feel sorry for YOUR hand wringing and tears...

M said...

As usual your not making any sense Mike. How much would Tri-W have been without the alleged obstruction? The most expensive property, the most expensive visual mitigation, the most expensive smell mitigation, the most expensive treatment plant, everything about Tri-W was more expensive than anywhere else. How did obstruction raise the cost? Could they have done it for $77 that the County plan had set? I guess we'll never know, cause your friends stole that plan from us. You've already stated that your pipes are already in the ground, so I don't know what you've got to complain about. I guess you just have no life outside of this sewer. I still say your biography fits you know who which explains alot.
Sincerely, M

Mike said...

obviously M, you do not know what you talk about... but have fun playing with yourself... maybe you should team up with the ochs or Linde Owen or Julie-used-to-be-tacker to hold hands and make up whatever stories that will make you all warm and fuzzy... You'll never understand the truth anyway so you might as well tell stories until the $200 bill start coming...

GetRealOsos said...

Mike (Richard),

Wasn't the Tri-W at $207 per month? ...Then you add the hook-up fees and imported water, delays for the digs, etc.

If another system were to be used such as vacuum, step and others the cost would be much less. Then you could have a treatment plant on 1 - 2 acres with Perc. That's a whole lot less money.

But, no, it had to be MWH and big expensive gravity pipes. That's how many of us know it was nothing more than a land grab from the beginning.

Does anyone know how many RWQCB employees live outside the PZ? I would like to know that one.

Churadogs said...

Chris sez:"While you may have forgotten, many of us do remember that YOU had your hand out for a dog park at TriW paid for by the rest of us"

Not exactly accurate, Chris. SLO-4-PUPs, the group that started the first off-leash dog park in the county at El Chorro (run and maintained by private donations and volunteer help; I'm on the Board) were asked by the CSD to prepare a report for the CSD (free of charge, no "hands out" anywhere)as to the viability of having a dog park at the site in the areas that had already been designated as "park elements." (The "park elements," how did you put it, "paid for by the rest of us" were part and parcel of the original TRI-W plan; SLO-4-PUPs had nothing to do with creating any of that) As requested, we held several public input meetings, compiled info, made recomendations based on our experience with El Chorro,met with MWH/group to evaluate the plans and site area they came up with based on the report of what dog parks generally require to be successful. We presented the report to the CSD at a public meeting. The layout of the dog park design was then incorported into the overall TRI-W plan in spite of objections from some members of the public.

The overall conclusions of the report was that, yes, a dog park could work at that site, but did require some heavy mitigation and expenses, mostly around the issue of parking and handicapped access.

Mike sez:"YOU have never wanted a sewer"

Oops, there he goes again, making stuff up. Serious question: Does Mike actually believe the stuff he makes up? Or does he know he's lying and simply doesn't care? Or, because he has serious comprehension problems, maybe he doesn't know the difference?

and Mike sez:"You should have opened your closed mind and realized there were a very large population on this community who disagree with you "

Uh, Mike, please check the County Survey, the part that asks for sewer plant preference sites. I put Tri-W last when I filled out the survey. so did the vast majority of other people who filled out the survey. Now, what were you saying about "very large population of this community who disagree" with me?

Mike sez: "I and my friends are not at all happy about the $200 per month bill that is coming..."

Then GRO sez:"Wasn't the Tri-W at $207 per month? "

Will the REAL Tri-W please stand up?

chris sez:"Give it a rest. The No Sewer, Move the Sewer, Not-in-my-lifetime sewer obstructionists have failed again!"

Not exactly accurate. 1. People who want to move a sewer plant aren't "Not-in-my-lifetime sewer obstructionists." They're "Love the sewer, but please move the plant out of townists." 2. The "move the sewer" supporters/voters actually DID move the sewer, so I'd have to say that was "successful" rather than declaring they "have failed again."

Mike said...

I do love reading/watching/ hearing you Ann and the dwindling band of fools squealing to justify and spin their retoric... NOW "they" are all in favor of the sewer, they just didn't like 8 years of work, purchase of Los Osos property, real PLANs, legal permits and funding... "they" just didn't personally like where the sewer was going to go... Whoppie...!!!! Now the main plant is supposedly going out of town... Wowwie!!! and the cost is going to be much higher (we ain't done yet!) what Tri-W would have cost... Yup, Ann is already squealing and her head is spinning around as fast as her words....

...but thanks Ann for the great morning laugh.... Keep trying, you really don't know what the quiet majority is thinking about this stupid sewer war YOU keep cheering on...!!!

Ron said...

Chris writes:

"It is obvious to everyone that the only consistent feature in all of your dissatisfying relationships is you.

Huh?

I have no idea what that means, because it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

The only consistent feature in all of my dissatisfying relationships is me?

Huh?

By the way, Chris, did you go take a peek at the Tri-W site?

Still laughing?

Ann writes:

"Does Mike actually believe the stuff he makes up? Or does he know he's lying and simply doesn't care? Or, because he has serious comprehension problems, maybe he doesn't know the difference? "

None of the above, and, I'm a bit surprised, Ann, that you don't see it.

You HAVE to understand, that what they do here, in your comments section, is all part of one of her silly little "strategies."

What you are seeing here, in the comments section of your blog, is a deliberate, orchestrated "strategy."

YES, they know they are lying, and YES, they don't care that they are lying, what they DO care about is obfuscation.

For example, the anonymous person posting as "Mike," writes:

"the cost is going to be much higher (we ain't done yet!) what Tri-W would have cost"

That statement simply can not be supported anywhere, by any official document, but in the world of "behavior based marketing" the truth is totally irrelevant. They're going to make sure that they come in here and repeat all of that unattributed, and completely false crap over, and over, and over, and, over, and over, and over again, and hope some of it sticks.

That's how "behavior based marketing" works, after all, they have A LOT to lose.

News flash: People are stupid.

SOME of them will believe what the "behavior based marketing" type(s) (I added the "(s)" just in case there's more than one) write, even though it's completely made up.

That's why, when I detected comments on my blog that were obviously deliberate "behavior based marketing" I started deleting those comments.

I mean, the central core of my blog is showing that Los Osos, SLO County, and California are all victims of Pandora's "behavior based marketing," so, what I was doing, BEFORE I started deleting that crap, was allowing them to "behavior base market" on my site, when I know that the entire disaster is due solely to "behavior based marketing."

So, I dropped the hammer on them -- no more "behavior based marketing" at SewerWatch, and, INSTANTLY, my comments dropped to "0," which is like the best thing on the world!

If you, Ann, want to allow them (but, most likely, her) to continue to deliberately run their/her silly little "behavior based marketing" "strategy" here, hey, it's your blog.

Mike said...

...say ronnie... We're sure thankful for YOU giving Pandora all the great press... She been able to ride that wave of words to be effective in working toward more and better parks within ALL of SLO county... Guess negative bs from YOU is a good thing...!!!!

So far, we can't come up with a single person YOU have been able to run out of town... Keep up the good work...!!!!

Ron said...

The anonymous commenter "Mike" writes:

"...say ronnie... We're sure thankful for YOU giving Pandora all the great press... "

and;

"She been able to ride that wave of words to be effective in working toward more and better parks within ALL of SLO county"

Right. Perfect!

Like I wrote before, we have a genuine Kumbaya moment here.

So, that means that you should write to Supervisor Gibson demanding that he pops out an official Resolution at a BOS meeting this January, recognizing her for her 20 years on the Parks Commission.

And then that would open up a public comment period on that Item, and then, just a hunch, we'd REALLY hear from the "silent majority." (OH, that'd be soooo sweeeet!)

C'mon, "Mike," help me out!

Write to Bruce, like I recently did at this link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2010/12/celebrate-pandora-part-ii.html

... and demand that he "honor" Pandora.

Doncha wanna see ol' P. celebrated? Hey, 20 years.

"Chris?" 'toons? C'mon! We're all on the same boat on this, right?

"Celebrate Pandora!"

Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya...

Mike said...

...Pandora's doing very well without Your spotlight...

SAY, Maybe YOU should write about Juile-what-ever-her-name is and how she's saved Los Osos and Oceano... You do know she's a perfect mom and wife...

Chris said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chris said...

Ron,

Here's what I saw at Tri W: A monument to the undeniable failure of your Shicker-Tacker-Sesena-Senet-Fouche team.

It seems your team thinks cutting your nose off to spite your face, or in this case a whole community successfully fulfills their duties.

No one voted to turn the site inot a mud wallow. Attempting to label as "success" the conversion of a project (that as Mike pointed out was financed, had all required permits and was under construction) into a multi-million dollar bankruptcy is shameful!

At some point you must really give up your vitriol because hanging in there is just making you look like an even bigger loser.

Ron said...

An anonymous commenter titled, "Chris" -- another silly, made-up name, and part of another silly "behavior based marketing" "strategy" -- writes:

"Here's what I saw at Tri W: A monument to the undeniable failure of your Shicker-Tacker-Sesena-Senet-Fouche team."

Really? Huh... how very "behavior based marketing" of you.

Because, for about the millionth time, let me show you what the County of SLO saw at the Tri-W disaster.

Straight from the County's Pro/Con Analysis, available at this link:

http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/Assets/PW/LOWWP/TAC/TAC+Final+Pro-Con+Component+Analysis+8-6-07.pdf


- "(Tri-W's) downtown location (near library, church, community center) and the high density residential area require that the most expensive treatment technology, site improvements and odor controls be employed."

and;

- "It (The Tri-W sewer plant) has high construction costs..." ($55 million. The next highest treatment facility option is estimated at $19 million.)

and;

- "Very high land value and mitigation requirements"

and;

- Tri-W energy requirements: "Highest"

and;

- "Small acreage and location in downtown center of towns (sic) require most expensive treatment"

and;

- "higher costs overall"

and;

- "Limited flexibility for future expansion, upgrades, or alternative energy"

and;

- "Source of community divisiveness"

and;

- "All sites are tributary to the Morro Bay National Estuary and pose a potential risk in the event of failure. Tri-W poses a higher risk..."

and;

- "NOTE: It was the unanimous opinion of the (National Water Research Institute) that an out of town site is better due to problematic issues with the downtown site."

and;

- "ESHA – sensitive dune habitat"

Then there's the March 2009, "Los Osos Wastewater Project Community Advisory Survey," conducted by county officials, "Only (9-percent) of (Prohibition Zone) respondents chose the mid-town (Tri-W) location (as their preference for the treatment facility)."

And, of course, finally, in a June 2009 letter to the California Coastal Commission, the SLO County "Project team," writes, "The Project team, given the clear social infeasibility issue associated with Mid Town (Tri-W project) and the infeasible status of the LOCSD disposal plan [bolding mine], believes that if either of those options are deemed by decision-makers to be the best solution for Los Osos, then serious consideration should be given by the Board (of Supervisors) to adopt a due diligence resolution and not pursue Project implementation."

Still laughing, "Chris?"

Wanna see me laugh?

"... if either of those options are deemed by decision-makers to be the best solution for Los Osos, then serious consideration should be given by the Board (of Supervisors) to adopt a due diligence resolution and not pursue Project implementation.""

AAAAAAhahahahahahahahah!

Mike said...

Hey Ronnie.WHEN do we see YOUR piece on the virtuous Julie Tacker... wonderful mother and wife....???????

No guts...???? Just a wantabe hack who got fired from the Sun Bulletin...!!!!

Chris said...

Ron, Ron, Ron,

Since you specialize in history you probably missed this from the Tribune Article on the Los Osos Rates hearing.

"As it is now, owners of single-family homes will pay nearly $200 a month for the next 30 to 40 years to finance the project."

Oops! seems your figures (and the hopes of the County) are out of date. We are now in line to pay much more than the any of the previous projects.

Retired banker hubby reminded me that the cost thrown around by the County don't include the bankruptcy and depend on the forgiveness of fines for polluting our water.

So, I am quite confident in saying your team failed...and failed miserably...to accomplish any of the goals the obstructionists dreamed of.

Laughing at you, not with you.

Read more: http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2010/12/15/1408595/protest-of-los-osos-sewer-project.html#ixzz18c38zm5N

Churadogs said...

Chris sez:"No one voted to turn the site inot a mud wallow."

Uh, Stan, Gordo & Richard did when they started construction before the recall election.

Chris, are you a Mike clone and just make stuff up? Yikes.

and Chris sez (quoting from the Tribune):"As it is now, owners of single-family homes will pay nearly $200 a month for the next 30 to 40 years to finance the project."

Uh, Chris, think you missed the "as it is now . . ." as in "as this editorial is being written. HOWEVER, those numbers MAY change IF construction bids come in under the guestimates, & etc.

Aw, Chrissie, don't be another Mikee, stupidly making stuff up. One stupid Mikee per blog is more than enough.

GetRealOsos said...

Where's Lynette?

This is not like her -- not to post every hour!


Ann,

You are right. It WAS the recalled board who decided to ruin Tri-W and start the construction early (no turning back was their plan). Mike can try to spin it any way he wants but the bottom line is the bottom line.

What's really weird is that if the State Water Board had not loaned out the first installment of the UNSECURED loan then Stan, Richard, and Gordon couldn't have started the project at all.

Yup, they were the ones who started the Tri-W project a month too early to cause the tremendous damage which of course includes the bankruptcy!

P.S. A friend of mine over heard the contractors working on the Tri-W say they had never made so much money on a job. Another friend told me that they were to get a bonus to finish the job early.

Mike said...

THE BOTTOMLINE IS THAT A VERY EXPENSIVE SEWER IS HEADED INTO LOS OSOS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT...!!!!

...and GRO, I seriously doubt that YOU have ANY friends...!!!! You don't ever actually KNOW anything about sewers and the Tri-W Plan, ONLY hearsay...someone, some friend, some other Harvey the Invisible Rabbit... You are just so full of crap...!!! just a rumor monger...!!!!

GetRealOsos said...

Mike (Richard),

Yes, you'd sure say I spread rumors.

Yes, I know a very expensive sewer is coming. I never said otherwise.

I'm saying that it didn't have to be so expensive. Period. You know it, we all know it.

It's a land grab to get everyone out so the developers can move in to re-build Los Osos to what Pandora wants it to look like. No riff-raff for her! No seniors for Van Burden, Starlings, etc.

Yes, I have good friends who aren't stupid by any means.

I have given more FACTS and information than you'd like (that's obvious). But I like to see you go off the top, I have to admit that.

P.S. Where's your good, loyal friend Lynette? ... taking time off for the holidays?

GetRealOsos said...

Mike (Richard),

One more thing:

You say that this is a rumor?

If the State Water Board had not loaned out the first installment of the UNSECURED loan then Stan, Richard, and Gordon couldn't have started the project at all.

Sure Richard!

Mike said...

I will agree with you GRO... time to clear out the riff raff and wipe out those silly 25 ft wide lots, trailer trash and that ugly "town" center so I can have jeffie build me and my friends some 5,000 to 20,000 sq ft mansions around a real golf course... Yup, GRO, you are right on target there... We also are planning on toll gates like 17 mile drive... gotta keep out the riff raff.... It's all in our PLAN... There will be 2 acre lot minimums so WE won't need no stinkin' sewer... Gotta love it when all the planning comes together... Thanks Gail, Lisa, Ann, Al and Julie... and thanks to YOU too GRO... we couldn't get control of LO without folks like you...!!!!

Chris said...

Ann,

Nice try old gal, but the harder you try to divert attention from the failure of the Shicker-Tacker-Sesena-Senet-Fouche board, the dumber you look.

It wasn't starting the project that devistated the community it was stopping the project with no workable plan.

The project is a done deal. I hope you spent the last 5 years wisely saving up to pay...and pay...and pay for Shicker-Tacker-Sesena-Senet-Fouche "Move the Sewer" fiasco.

Laughing at you, not with you.

GetRealOsos said...

Chris,

You say, "It wasn't starting the project that devistated the community it was stopping the project with no workable plan."

Problem with that is the RECALLED board had already sunk over $3 into the project.

We could have moved ahead with Ripley, and moved the sewer out of town (to the same place it will now be.)

It was the State Water Board loaning out all that money with an unsecured loan that allowed the recalled board to start that very STUPID project a month early (so there would be no turning back of course!)

Remember Stan saying, "WE LEFT YOU WITH NOTHING -- no money!!"

But, obviously the State Water Board wanted Tri-W and wanted MWH even though they aren't to dictate what system we select.

I personally saw a memo from the State Water board requesting Steve Highland (of MWH) sit in on a meeting with them. This memo was to Blakeslee. Why?

I believe it's because MWH has been handing out money to many. That's what they do.

And also remember (and by the way, this is not a rumor! -- Blakeslee was taking MWH's calls all during his AB2701.)

Nope, you don't want to admit it, but it was the recalled board's fault for the financial mess that we're in -- with a little help from the State Water Board.

Churadogs said...

GRO sez:"It was the State Water Board loaning out all that money with an unsecured loan that allowed the recalled board to start that very STUPID project a month early (so there would be no turning back of course!)

Remember Stan saying, "WE LEFT YOU WITH NOTHING -- no money!!"

Irony: I'm pretty sure that if the CSD had NOT started that project before the recall, the recall would have failed.

But here's one thing I'm absolutely sure of: No responsible elected CSD official who actually cared more about this community than about their own wounded egos would ever, ever, EVER have gambled that unsecured SRF money on a scorched-earth policy by setting the recall election date as late as possible (as Gordo stated, he was not inclined to help people trying to get him out of office (that old ego) by starting that project before the recall election. Not ever.

Alon Perlman said...

There were several Pre-Recall CSD PR components that failed; The arrival of reality-The starkness of the cleared ESHA where deer roamed a month prior. The Hunnihuts. "Trust the truth".(maybe the last one was just me). But; It was the extra month(s) that allowed the "Recall organization" to solidify that lead to the Recalls or more importantly the passage of Measure 'B" (A legally binding measure, for long enough to reach the no-return point).

The Post Recall board? I spent about 2-3 years watching them directly in action in meetings, between meetings, during meeting breaks, at the committee meetings far from the cameras;
Learned 3 things- 1. Each director is an individual and brought their own individual capabilities, disabilities and notions of responsibilities. As they matured or failed to mature in to their roles and learn the functions and limitations of the organization.
2. There are certain constraints and paths that responsible CSD directors can follow as they work their way through regulatory and mundane directorial duties (including fiscal responsibilities) to accomplishing their goals. Call it "CSD 101".
As I learned more and more about CSD Staff Manager interactions, (as if I was auditing the class) it became apparent that some of the directors were not going to pass their final exams.
During the first two years it was easy to for me blame the outside agencies. Then I woke up. Unfortunately, for a few directors the "exclusively blame" path continues to this day.
In a healthy CSD the public is the Sixth Director.
In the post Recall CSD the "public" Ranked fifth, somewhere behind Director Gail and Director Al.
It was easy to rationalize, (In the first two years) even the clearly questionable actions of the post-recall board, to be due to the individual pressures (Including Lawsuits).

Lesson Number 3: In hindsight, en toto, 20/20; this was not a board who could build any sewer if handed to them on a silver platter.
Yeall may differ.

Midtown? (Heh Heh- I mean Tri-W) Remains an Odd location as far as land use. But given the final cost and the shape of the collection system?
Social unfeasibility;- not Technical or monetary infeasibility.
It’s a wash, (Literally and figuratively).

FOGSWAMP said...

Well said Alon.

Ron said...

Alon writes:

"Tri-W... Social unfeasibility;- not Technical..."

That's not accurate.

The disposal system was also "infeasible."

According to the County: "... the infeasible status of the LOCSD disposal plan..."

In other words, it wasn't going to work as planned.

And, according to the county, Tri-W posed the "highest" risk for spills into the National Estuary.

Just curious: Did the Tri-W site just happen to collect a drop or two of water during these storms?

Alon Perlman said...

Thanks Ron, you opened the Flood Gates. I’m going to repost this to your Blog
- Without re-researching-without clear context to the statements etc... top of my head -what I think and what I know.
I think the Infeasibility of disposal plan had the 100% Broderson element. I think Legros once said on this blog; the 100% Broderson was temporary to the project start and some would be shunted elsewhere. Disposal issues appear in CCC documents throughout the developments of projects. I personally was in active opposition to Broderson until Rob Miller reduced it. Also Tri-W did include tertiary (Along with high maintenance and negative pressure building for odor control, also there was on-site disposal/ grounds maintenance component inconsistent with the location's being a low collecting spot. (On the other hand if you had to have it in-town, the gravity collection is correct. And on the other- other hand bringing your rainwater/stormwater into the same exact spot as your Sewer plant has consequences that seem un-designed into many of the area's Sewer systems- (MB. Avila Creek). But....The County got the 2ndary treated application part wrong- CCC corrected that.
I'm not sure it can't handle slightly more than the 450 AFY but the numbers are locked in now. And any number would have to be dependent on continuous safety monitoring and a reserve capacity to STOP flows, "If".
The 0% Broderson suggested by some, even to this day, is even more impractical.

Alon Perlman said...

Best for last; WHAT I KNOW-I do monitor progression of the "Midtown site" and the surround on a regular basis. So you bet I was there Monday while it was raining, and Tuesday took a hike post rains (Subsurface collecting phase) to observe directly timed flows through the basin. (Fred Dellagata (LOCAC Traffic and Circ. Chair) was there with me too and we observed that erosion was close to the curb of LOVR roadway and he notified the County).
Last year (January close to the CCC Los Osos WWTP?) there were three (25 year event) successive storms. I rushed back at the ending of the third Storm in time to find the rupture of the final remnants of George Milanese retention pond. Note to self; “Was the Palisades Drainage project completed? Think so”).
So this Monday, there was “A river runs through it” in the location I thought it would, and on Tuesday in the lull (as I already predicted); the TRI-W fenced portion retained NO standing or flowing water. Not quite “Dry as a bone” but close to it.
Where does it go? it actually, this year, worked its way out from the area, without collecting. all the way down Pine and the West edge of the Trailer park where it and the “ lower Broderson “ flows went neatly into the West Sweet Springs Marsh-and the national estuary if carrying a Sewer spill. But not a disaster to Sweet Springs spring and ponds. I’m not sure if the County included Giacomazzi at the time they stated “highest risk”.

I confirmed that last year- this year is Insurance. Your other two “citizen” experts you know- Julie T. identified Willows inside TW fence and Linde Owens knows a lot about the property and has made good public comments about vehicles entering the ESHA, but Linde can’t be shaken from believing that “Overflows at T-W, would go to Sweet Springs” understood to be meaning the ponds slightly east. It’s a sewer activist thing.

Chris said...

Alon,

You write: "Lesson Number 3: In hindsight, en toto, 20/20; this was not a board who could build any sewer if handed to them on a silver platter."

Nicely put. I love the subtle way you juxtapose the skill of the old board to produce a project that protected our community with the incompetence of Shicker-Tacker-Sesena-Senet-Fouch.

All water down the toilet now. Hopefully our new Board can find a way to pay the debts Shicker-Tacker-Sesena-Senet-Fouch stuck us with.

Ho, ho,ho-ing with you, not at you.

Alon Perlman said...

On the same page somewhat, Chris. We have learned that no sewer is perfect. (Example=100% Broderson remains in my mind an excessive Amt, see re Legros comments)
Hm... I'll avoid rephrasing that, but I meant "any sewer". (Darn! thats not quite it either!)
You should know that I helped stop that 2005 Sewer. At the time I certainly did not appreciate the regulatory hurdles. Later I was relatively much more instramental in stoping the Tonini Sprayfields, and more learned, even predicting the CCC objections.
It may not be the same as your point, or relevant to you, but having been through it, part of my point is that "The group" was composed of individuals, each of whom played different parts in removing the slim possibility of a (somewhat?) cheaper system as an alternative.
A different mix (even including one or two of the listed), may had gotten the Job done. IMHO

FOGSWAMP said...

It's interesting to note, at this time of the season, the numerous wastewater gravity system spills across the nation, and the tons of raw sewage spilled into our streams, rivers and oceans.

Some figure it is enough to keep Niagara Falls gushing annually for about 10 days.

Yet, out water-board demands we use a system with a "proven track record", according to Mr. Briggs.

Well, the deep trenched gravity system sure as hell has a proven record.

Without a doubt, the gravity system is a revenue generating system for the State.