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Saturday, March 26, 2011

Los Osos On YouTube

I'm ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille.  "The Scent of Money," a video report by Dan Blackburn , Central Coast News Agency.  All the usual suspects at www.youtube.com/watch?v=asEh3urVVLc   Camera! Lights!

118 comments:

Alon Perlman said...

Well, here we go again, show bizness kids making documentries about themselvesI think I know who wrote the copy Blackburn was reading

Anonymous said...

The documentary claims the County, Olgren, Supervisor Gipson and MWH have nefariously conspired to push an 'unwanted' gravity collection sewer on Los Osos for the sole purpose that MWH (and by extension Olgren and Gibson too) make millions of dollars off Los Osos when the County awards MDW a 'sole-source contract' to design and construction the sewer.

One little problem here...
MWH has decided NOT TO BID ON THE COUNTY SEWER PROJECT at all.

In fact, MDW has made it very clear that they want NOTHING to do with the current project in light of the non-stop controversy over their involvement; in short, they do not need or want Los Osos' business in light of the constant unfounded bad press (such as this documentary).

The critics that have hounded MWH over the last year have won.
They succeeded in getting MWH out of the Los Osos sewer project entirely. Not surprisingly, the critics behavior has resulted in scaring other qualified engineering firms from bidding on the Los Osos project either at; which is amazing as their behavior has resulted in reducing the competition they espouse is needed to keep costs down.

Sewertoons said...

Jim Sage?

Alon Perlman said...

To be clear: Supervisor Gibson stated that the bidding was for a design component of the sewer collection. Not for the actual sewer building. Nevertheless 12:27 Anon nicely made the point known to most of the readers. Unlikely that given some info from MWH, that they will bid for the Actual Sewer but it is possible.

As for Blackburns Research-Spoon fed-not only is the MWH conspiracy maintained But Ed. et Al and Co. did not deliver anything else new. At a glance the whole video could had been done 99% at the point 2701 was passed and 95% shortly after recall.
There is still some money to be made off the poor confused and worried Los Osos elderly. Hence Working man/Environmentalist/Home Owner/Elder Statesman Barrow's presence. He has plenty of "Job" security. Feel sorry for those caught up in this farce.

Linde went into her philosophy in detail at the last LOCAC meeting. Catch it on Ch. 20. (If the sound comes through, 2 brownouts!)
The word verification for today "fibbid" -no foolies.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Gibson did specify only the 'design component' was to be bid and awarded at this time.

However, I was referring to Ed Ochs documentary statement that the County intended to sole-source the design and CONSTRUCTION contracts to MWH .

Mr. Ochs is wrong on both counts.

The documentary is 'polished', so it is plausible that the producers worked many weeks to set the script, film and edit. All the speakers looked so spiffy!

Imagine their collective horror (along with an 'Oops! Never-mind moment') when this week the alleged main 'conspirator', MDH, displayed a complete lack of conspiratorial-sole-source-greediness when they declined their County co-conspirators invitation to make all that conspiratorial cash.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous...Who IS MDH that you keep referring to? It was a well done "documentary" that much we can agree on, but little else.

Sewertoons said...

Looks like a typo for MWH - I think most of us got that.

Anonymous said...

I think this documentary is getting more coverage than even Mr. Blackburn ever imagined. It does tell it like it is. Kudos to all those that had a hand in its production. Very well done! Let's do a follow up!

Anonymous said...

Lynnette, ONLY YOU would assume it to be a typo...he's made more than one...ie: MDW, MDH...do a little proofing before you "hit publish". Oh, BTW Lynette, you DO know what they say about people who "ASS U ME?"

Anonymous said...

Ah,,,Anon above....'tells it like it is? What is the is you refer to?

The only 'is' pressed by the documentary is the allegation of a conspiracy do defraud Los Osos perpetrated by the County and MWH.

It is very clear that the conspiracy theory pressed in the documentary is a fantasy as MWH declined all that Los Osos payola by not playing with their 'co-conspirators' at the County. Go figure? All that conspiratorial effort wasted.

As for the documentary getting coverage, great! By all means the documentarians can declare that they slew the evil MWH through their expose'. They should be congratulated (wink).

Sewertoons said...

Anon 4:00 p.m., a nice "follow up" would be to hear the other side of the issue, but I don't think that is going to happen.

Anonymous said...

A Nony mouse Sez
Ann
How about going back to non anonymous posting- Simply because that collective nomer makes it hard to respond or read multiple entries.
For instance;It's not like Ru$real or Get real Osos can't protect their "true" identities with a made up name.
Justme

Anonymous said...

ACTION!

County/Pre accusation Paavo, cut the competition when it prematurely and arbitrarily eliminated the promised STEP/STEG and other technology from the process and which, incidentally, flies in the face of Paavo’s (on the record statement…) “The least cost technology becomes the best and all others fall away.”

The real estate bubble that 83-13 was designed to take advantage of has burst …

Talk about “FIFTEEN MINUTES OF FAME” Should be very instructive to those who would otherwise continue to try and look the other way. I believe that as more folks become aware of just what has been going on

I say another round of water testing at the original sites in an effort to justify the 83-13 PZ and the alleged need for the “big leaky pipe” in the first place. Any business owner would have spent a few bucks

If MWH was moved to remove themselves from the equation there must be fire where all that smoke has been coming from. When will Mark Hutchinson get back on that Storm Water mandate??

On another public figure note: is Paavo really seeing Maria “I love a big leaky sewer pipe, in my drinking water” Kelly? Is Paavo Maria’s ticket out of the leaky sewer in my drinking water zone??

Anonymous said...

I believe that as more folks become aware of just what has been going on it will be impossible for the County and the WB to continue this charade.

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

Anon, 5:36 - most people don't want Step because they know the tons of non-financed money it would cost to put their properties back together after the destruction caused by the step mini-van burial.

Besides, maybe some people didn't want the smart meters that accompanied the tank that Ripley was so effusive about? Or did you forget about that?

Anon 5:42 - wishful thinking. BTW - Have you ponied up your part for the alleged new lawsuit?

Anonymous said...

Esteemed Anon above,

By all means, press the conspiracy theory to the world.

Please send the documentary to all the news outlets, TV networks, investigative journalists and the like (just to make sure that Mr.Blackburn has not already done so.) Call in the calvary to save the day.

I portend that all such efforts will not result in postponing or stopping the County from building the project as planned. The world will quickly determine that the premise of the documentary has no merit; and move on to real issues. Not only is there no sizzle here, there is no steak either.

My opinion is that the documentary is the first salvo of the last-ditch LON efforts to stop the process. All else has failed so there is nothing left to lose. From past behavior I expect much more lamenting and gnashing of teeth leading to a spectacularly meaningless gesture (hopefully not violent).
At least that is what I think they are 'conspiring' to do.

Anonymous said...

Lynnette, What could the "other side" possibly have to offer by way of an "follow up" to this documentary? Anything they say or do will only make them look worse than they already do. Don't forget you all wanted the "riff-raff" & lower income people RUN OUT OF TOWN. Make the project so unaffordable, that ONLY the ELITE of the community will be able to stay here. That sounds good to YOU, doesn't it Lynnette? You too, Richie?

Alonimouse said...

Lynette, before you suggest the "Other" side be presented, ask if this is not an attempt by the jokes to garner a market share of the hearts and minds of the "Opposition". Does this represent even a minority within a clique within a movement? Are you suggesting that hack journalisem and ambush journalisem are legitimate forms of presentation?
There is nothing new in the video. Even the description of the complaint about paavo-MWH states recently came to light while we know that it was submitted to the DA in what ? 06?Sad to see Dan Blackburns retirement from Journalisem. You recognise Ed's writing don't you?

It is just a continuation of the serious game of "Heros and Villains".

Welcome to back bay bollywood.
Que the fog machine. No smoke, no fire. It's done with mirrors and editing.

Sewertoons said...

Hi Alon, I just don't want them to think that we fell asleep! Yeah, it is sad about Blackburn all right!

Check this out - it's very interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfeAj8UdOBw&feature=related

Alon Perlman said...

You talking to mwa? (Moi) I haven't even posted here in a while.??? you may have me confused with another mouse

Richard Sed. and Marla are OK in my book. Maybe a little woolier than some people are comfortable with in their activists.

That wig is hilarious. wIGGED COMPLETELY OUT. a real sageinhiemer. The mop is the message. Jimbo Holliwood. YES i saw it earlier. Gail's Interview also comes up. While you may disagree with all or most of it, (Insider exclusive, and I havent reviewed it again since forever), I consider it as being close to a legitimate attempt in context of those long ago times, and esp in context of what we unfortunately know about this recent fluff peice of pompous puffery.

Anonymous said...

Alon's right. I recognize the Ochs hand, even though Blackburn claimed credit. Ed probably just stared into his glass eye and Blackburn gave him his camera and Ed filmed himself? How could you tell any differently? Alon's also right about Blackburn legitimizing what the pointed Ochs do by giving them exposure: It's like giving the keys to the city to the guys who planted landmines in front of the government building. (I would NEVER give them the "real" keys.) And Alon's right about nothing new in the video: It's the same old story about a crooked politician fleecing the taxpayers, and even if it's first time anyone outside Los Osos has ever seen a video about it, who would ever believe it?! More fog on the log!

Anonymous said...

Be sure to watch this all the way to the end... http://www.waterandwastewater.com/videos/view_video.php?viewkey=3de32e976c6f04e70020

Anonymous said...

http://www.rmwd.org/files/PDF/Departments/Wastewater%20Operations/Reporting%20Sewer%20Overflows.pdf

Interesting how the EPA and WB unfunded mandate gravity sewerage into existence, then expect/demand that local government make their citizens pay for havoc it creates...

Anonymous said...

Hey Gravityflow (kidding, someone else)
you won't get an argument from me that STEP isnt Environmentally superior. but S^TEP costs would then have to include Many more manholes than those proposed (1?), and the emission of radio frequencies for monitoring. For the county the STEP would had included dealing with unknowns($$$), and when they got what they wanted in the survey (U can go there, I won't) and the costs were close enough, they took it off the table. (discuss among yourselves) Both the PC and CCC had STEP info as an alternative to consider in this iteration.
And if he was going to post annonimously, You probably wouldn't get that argument from Alon either.
Peace Out


When the poor people sleep with a shade on the light, lost wages are way outa sight. So now I'll say nighty night
3 minutes and 20 seconds in- the medium is the message.

Sewertoons said...

Thanks for the interesting video, I hadn't seen it for a while. This type of sewer is called a "storm sewer" (note the size of the manhole cover) and the definition says:

(It) is designed to drain excess rain and ground water from paved streets, parking lots, sidewalks, and roofs. Storm drains vary in design from small residential dry wells to large municipal systems.

This one looked "municipal" and it clearly had too much water in it.

What Los Osos is getting is a sanitary sewer:

A sanitary sewer… is a separate underground carriage system specifically for transporting sewage from houses and commercial buildings to treatment or disposal.

Sanitary sewers are operated separately and independently of storm drains, which carry the runoff of rain and other water which wash into city streets.

The largest pipes we are getting are 18" in diameter as it says in the EIR.

Anonymous said...

Alon, while I agree with you that there's still money to be made off the elderly by the towns major scam master. He isn't the only person in town that's getting folks to "write them into their wills", unfortunately, this seems to be a common practice here. The documentary was a good job by Mr. Blackburn, but who the hell did Als hair & make-up? That was a BAD job. What makes you think Ed had to spoon feed Blackburn ANYTHING? I suspect Mr. Blackburn is quite capable of doing his own research & writing. Really. You seem to be so well informed about everything that goes on here, if it really is TRUE that, Paavo "Hose Nose" Ogren is seeing Maria "Leaky Pipes" Kelly, don't YOU agree that, THAT would constitute a clear "CONFLICT OF INTEREST"? True, they deserve each other, but HE will no doubt get her a "cushy county job". There's just SOMETHING NOT QUITE RIGHT about THAT scenerio, don't YOU agree?

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

You want to be the sewer expert, but you have refused to address what I brought up about Dr. T.

Dr. T told Paavo it wasn't wise to build gravity collection in the sand, hills, and earthquakes. Dr. T writes the books and taught the engineers.

How can you dismiss what he says?

I'm tired of you "Dreamers" trying to make villains out of the people in the community who only want the BEST project for their money, and also one that won't ruin the environment.

Our district engineer didn't like gravity either and said there were MANY systems we could have had.

Why are you fine with seniors who own their homes having to suffer with this sewer that won't do a thing to correct the bay or the groundwater? It's all fraud, the sewer, the PZ, and everything the County has done to date.

Anyone with any common sense can see this. They can also see that thousands will suffer so only a few can get rich off of the "sewer scam".

Anonymous said...

GetRealOsos,
You've made some excellent points. The thing that "bothers me" most about this "County Sewer Scam" is the FACT that EVERYONE is "benefitting" from its construction, therefore, not ONLY the entire community of Los Osos, but the entire County, State & Federal Governments are deriving the "benefit" of CLEAN WATER, THEREFORE, they should ALL be paying for this "benefit". And, Lynette, do NOT ask who dirtied the water...No tests were ever done to conclusively PROVE that the contamination came only from the "prohibition zone" septic systems. It's also NOT RIGHT that the vacant lot owners are being subsidized by so few. Everyone is part of the problem & therefore, should be part of the solution. Another way this community is being scammed is the FACT that the water rate payers are the only members of the community that's keeping the LOCSD in business. Isn't it time for the LOCSD to be dissolved. The water rate payers can no longer afford this extravagence.

Sewertoons said...

GRO and anon 2:14

First off, SNORE. Second, whine all you like; nothing will stop the project.

"Everyone" is paying — where do you think the cheap money USDA and SRF funds come from? The FEDS! Think there is cheaper money to be had — please let the County know ASAP! BTW — LO blew its chance back in the 80's to get the project done almost free!

The County EIR's peer review said that BOTH gravity and Step would do equivalent damage to the environment. You have your own personal assessment along those lines — fine, but it is NOT what the people WANTED to have built. So we are NOT GETTING STEP.

Would you like to assess us all to install a lysimeter under every home in LO to allay your fears that we are not polluting enough to deserve a sewer? Great! Pony up the money to mount a campaign to have a 218 put on a ballot! If you are not willing to do that, then please stop whining about how we haven't been proved to be polluting. WE HAVE.

OK, here is the question I ask that you will never answer: How did the drug and body care residues get into the aquifer if not via the septic outflows? Is it from the areas with the highly concentrated housing using septics or those homes on the huge lots?

As for dissolving the CSD - good luck with that! Been there done that! You have an extra $40,000 you want to toss — go for it!

If the CSD is dissolved due to the bankruptcy, who might be the likely candidate to buy the water infrastructure? Why Golden State — who just did a 42% rate increase to their customers! Be careful what you wish for!

You know, you might be a lot less stressed out if you moved, don't you think?

FOGSWAMP said...

Can any sewer experts, tell us what would happen to our deep underground gravity pipes should we happen to have an earthquake of the magnitude that has drawn all the attention to Diablo?

We now have a newly discovered "Shoreline fault" a half a mile or so off shore according to scientists.

The Los OSOS basin is not unlike Christchurch, New Zealand, where the earthquake
shook the upper aquifer water so violently that, as witnesses observed, the liquefied water and sand sprung up out of the sands like geysers.

The resultant flooding some described as a tsunami coming from their underground sandy soil and lifting everything above it.

Should we be concerned about liquefacation?

Maybe we can get a hold harmless agreement from the State.

Sewertoons said...

Can any sewer experts tell us what would happen to fiberglass Step tanks should a huge earthquake happen?

Anonymous said...

Lynette, you REALLY are an arrogant, pompous peice of DREK. I pity you. As for "blowing it in the 80's", YOU were NOT here, nor was I, so DON't even go there. You are a REAL PIECE OF WORK by suggesting that anyone who disagrees with your puffed up propaganda should JUST MOVE. Just who the HELL do YOU think YOU are? You ALBINO. Maybe your good buddy Pandora, will come up with a "puffy piece" for HER OWN documentary. Have at it, but get someone really good for YOUR hair & make up, otherwise you'll appear to be blotted out.

FOGSWAMP said...

Toons ...... Yep, both would probably end up above ground, and the forces of gravity will draw millions of gallons directly to the bay for months.

So, why not just use a heavy concrete tanks to contain our crap from the environment in the event of such a disaster?

Do we have a plan B should it happen?

Was liquefaction and its effects ever discussed by the CCC, or the County?

Anonymous said...

Sewertoons writes: "You know, you might be a lot less stressed out if you moved, don't you think?"

No, I'd be a lot less stressed out if YOU moved! So would half the town! Don't you think?

Anon writes to Sewertoons: "Just who the HELL do YOU think YOU are? You ALBINO."

Hey, watch out Anon! Don't you know Albinos make up the silent majority in Los Osos?

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

So you don't want to address what Dr. T told Paavo (not wise to build gravity in sand, hills and in earthquake country)?

Please tell us why Dr. T would be wrong. Please tell us why Rob Miller would be wrong.

Of course it would cost less to use step or vacuum. Who are you trying so hard to fool?

AND PLEASE ALSO TELL US HOW MUCH THE COUNTY WILL PROFIT ON THIS PROJECT.

The more they spend, the more the County makes.

The higher the price tag, the more people have to leave.

Just perfect (for just a few of course).

P.S. I would think that a lot of people will have to rent rooms out to pay the bill, I wouldn't be surprised if crime increases because of that -- more cars in the drive ways, more of Pandora's riff raff, etc. You be careful of what you wish for Lynette.

Oh boy!

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

And tell us too Lynette, why the County has taken our property tax money all these years, and they've never given any back (or very little) and yet spent it all around the County. We don't even have paved roads.

The County permitted the tanks, built over a thousand homes and now punish a selective group to pay for a sewer that won't correct any water problems and pick the highest priced project possible.

My God.

Alon Perlman said...

Wow Fog. I wrote a long comprehensive explanation and included the comment-"Given that we have a relatively high groundwater due to leech fields now, it is likely there would be even more damage in a no project scenario. Guess what Fog- You actually could figure this out- you are that smart. (And you don’t use your brains to fool yourself, a major problem with the intelligent but unwise)" Then I click on the posts, and indeed you answered your own question. Yep the concrete coffins are more likely to crumble but have less bouyency. Other considerations- Holding tanks, Power supply interruption, state of the groundwater saturation (currently high due to- Leech fields etc...
The EIR does cover some. There are no NEW objections though. Be your own expert or follow people who get their info from Al (who doesn't lie ALL the time, but just enough)

Sewertoons said...

Concrete tanks were not watertight, so were not what we would have gotten. I'm thinking if a quake torqued a fiberglass tank half full, you'd split it. Let's face it, a really big quake will mess up everything. Just imagine our water pipes — under pressure — spewing out water.

Liquefqction was discussed here:

http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/Assets/PW/LOWWP/Draft+EIR/Appendix+F+-+Geology.pdf

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Just to inform the anons and GRO on some Step facts:

Staffing Requirements – Less staff are required for O&M of a gravity system. STEP/STEG requires more staff and time for O&M.

Aesthetics: STEP/STEG would create more aesthetic impacts during operations than gravity due to two 24-inch grade lids, alarms, and lights. Construction impacts would be similar.

Odors: STEP/STEG would generate moderate to severe odors while odor impacts from a gravity system would be minimal to moderate.

STEP/STEG would create more operational noise due to pumps and alarms.

But of course, these facts were not produced by Al or Orenco, so I will be awaiting the next rantings on how this information can't possibly be correct. Big whoop!

Anonymous said...

If there aren't nitrate problems then why aren't the water sellers using the upper aquifers instead of where there is seawater intrusion? There are some major gaps in the video and is equivalent to FOX News. Leave the gaps in the story and let the fear mongering begin! It seems to be "open season" on the Back Bay again. Classic bullying behavior and would never be allowed in school. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying

FOGSWAMP said...

Toons ...... Thanks for the link re liquefaction study.

Many things I never know before.

Noted that the study was in 2008, using some info from Fugros' visit in 2003 and others.

The Shoreline Fault ( probably not known) is not mentioned and seems to be closer to the project than others used to compile the report.

Shouldn't this report be updated with new information? Or is there a more recent study?

It would appear that no matter which project was selected (Step or Gravity), there is in fact a known potential significant impact which could (or would) result in pipeline breaks and release of untreated effluent along proposed collection systems, due to liquefaction and ground lurching.

Seemingly, these are not geological hazards that can be prevented and therefore are being "mitigated" by implementing preparedness measures for the inevitable!

Anonymous said...

Where did Sewertoons get her STEP "facts" from? The bogus EIR? The bogus TAC? The bogus Ogren? Ogren's bogus girlfriend he "picked" for TAC? Trafficking in false facts is the evil handiwork of a paid county crank whose hubby profs for the Cal Poly mafia. Reader beware. Always wise to keep in mind where the lies are coming from and why. It's always the same: $$$$$$$.

Anonymous said...

Dear FOGSWAMP,

Dear FS,

Please stop your common sense questioning as it has nothing to do with this particular, platitude filled and attempted, “public works” project. The more you question the validity of the county’s severely flawed process, the more you show how unsustainable the behavior and the current $8M fraud really is… Pointing out the obvious regarding the newly known earthquake fault is as or more harsh as wanting the retesting of the original well sites that produced the “nitrites” which were the basis of the creation of the PZ in the first place. Why would an over reaching government, seeking to continue its corruption and increase the amount and collection of tax & fees money from the people it was elected and formed to serve want to do “anything” that could conserve money, time energy, water???

“You people” who use common sense in your questioning of government activity, really chap my hide… Who do you think you are, someone who will actually pay for a good or bad decision? Come off it, FS and close your mind tightly like Lynette and Maria Kelly…Get “WITH IT” already. I really would like to try to see things from Lynette’s point of view, but I just cannot get my head that far up my ass, or anyone’s for that matter.

Paavo, who is FOOLISHLY spending the people's money, is fearful of "any" information coming to light that may derail the "burst" real estate plan laid out in 1983. The "Permitting" the additional 1,000+ sources of discharge in the 83-13 PZ after it was created is stand alone proof that there is little, if any, validity to the reasoning used to justify a leaky gravity sewer pipe in a "prohibition zone".

We will all see just how much farther the county can continue this charade, in the inevitable, approaching "light of day". MWH “running away” from this fraud is just the tip of the ice berg.

Anonymous said...

IF MWH thought it could "stand up" the coming scrutiny, it would never have "coward” away… Fear is a powerful motivator… He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day.

Anonymous said...

It's a little scary that people like Lynette have posted 25+ comments on multiple sites and multiple aliases since the film was uploaded. You can be passionate about something without being a mindless wingnut.

Anonymous said...

Lynette & Mimi Kallen (sp) have BOTH been posting on kccn.tv, but what really stunned me was that "Fogswamp" (Jeri Walsh and/or Richard Nargetsen) have been grousing about paying $375 a YEAR for their vacant lot! HELL, I pay a LOT MORE than THAT. My solution to Jeri, Richard & others with VACANT LOTS, stop paying the taxes! Let the County have them! Then they could be sold at public auction & the "proceeds" could be used to HELP subsidize the treatment plant...the lots are worthless anyway...no water, remember?

Anonymous said...

And another thing... I OBJECT to you thinking that I may be one of the people who posts here regularly, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!!!
How dare you think that...you don't know me...
Signed: Anonymous.

Sewertoons said...

Thanks FOG, it is nice to see some rational commenting in between the nuttiness.

The "no water" comment is yet to be seen as true or not. The ISJ report will be out soon. I see a self-serving wish in the post above in the urging of the sale of vacant lots to subsidize the treatment plant. Just what legal mechanism would donate that money to the plant?

Anonymous said...

Lynette, you DIMWIT! What the hell do YOU think happens to properties when real estate taxes go unpaid? The County will take them over...and why NOT sell them? The folks hanging on to these worthless lots, bought them on speculation & for PRACTICALLY NOTHING. Since the vacant lots we're speaking of are in the PZ, the "proceeds" SHOULD go toward the project. After all, the County took our tax dollars all those years & gave us nothing in return...they spent OUR money elsewhere in the county! BTW, when Pandora does HER video, please don't go for that tired old Michael Jackson white make up...it's not at all flattering!

Sewertoons said...

Anon 6:13. You are assuming that the vacant lot owners have not paid their property taxes, otherwise the County cannot put them up for auction. You are assuming THEY they want to sell and lose that tax investment because YOU want them to! If they have paid their taxes, why would they want to donate their lots to you? Your charismatic and pleasing personality will persuade them perhaps?

"If the property is sold the purchase amount will be used to pay the unpaid taxes, penalties, fees and interest at 1.5% per month."

http://www.ehow.com/list_6305138_penalties-non_payment-property-tax-california.html

So, just how much will be left after that? Considering that
no one wants a lot they can't build on (as you speculate) how much money are they worth?

There is a "deferred maintenance" bank account set aside for Los Osos awaiting the restoration on the roads. Maybe you would know this if you spent time researching rather than speculating.

Anonymous said...

Again, DIMWIT Lynette, remember what I told YOU before about "assuming" anything ASS U ME?
IF, the taxes are UNPAID...Seems as though the vacant lot owners are, as YOU say, WHINING about paying a measly yearly amount for the taxes on these now worthless lots, if said owners are "sick & tired" of "paying those taxes", they have a PLAN B to take advantage of....sort of like YOU telling the taxpaying homeowners in the PZ, IF THEY DON'T LIKE THE COUNTY PLAN...JUST MOVE. You are one heartless BITCH, there's a room in HELL with YOUR NAME ON IT, just waiting for YOU.

Bev. De Witt-Moylan said...

Any story about the costs of the Los Osos sewer is not complete without reference to the families chosen at random to receive CCRWQCB enforcement orders in December 2006 and May 2007. Labeled "the first wave" by the Water Board and subsequently known as "The Los Osos 45," most of us have pumped our tanks twice since then at a cost of many hundreds, sometimes into the thousands, of dollars. When questioned recently about the fairness, not to mention the environmental effectiveness, of these orders on so few households Harvey Packard of the enforcement team referred to us as simply farther along in the enforcement process than others in town who have not been and are not required to pump. Since the County formally accepted the project it does not appear that anyone else will be moving into the enforcement pipeline after all, and so we remain "the only wave." Despite Harvey Packard's comments to the contrary further Water Board enforcement has come to a standstill for now. What we went through for over a year and a half of trial and error and in the years since is something no law abiding taxpayer should ever have to endure. Ever.

It bears repeating that CCRWQCB lawyers have said boldly in writing that should we sell our property the enforcement orders no longer apply, further exposing the truth of that agency’s commitment to clean water in Los Osos vs. simply forcing compliance with a 218 vote through the unmitigated electioneering of threatened enforcement actions. The original $25000 assessment passed on the backs of 45 families who continue to bear the costs of the Water Board’s victory in that election.

For years the County has given politically expedient lip service to assisting us. District 2 Supervisor Gibson, the author of a shameful letter to the Water Board apologizing to them for us, has made noises about personally asking the Water Board to rescind the Cease and Desist Orders now that the County has taken the project. No one at the County level has made a sound, however, about helping us recover the significant and unfairly applied costs of compliance with these orders borne by a few on behalf of the entire town. That money, along with huge expenses related to our prosecution, is gone and will continue to bleed from household budgets that must stretch even more to accommodate new sewer taxes. We alone bear that silent assessment.

As far as most of the town is concerned those of us with enforcement orders are invisible, or quaintly insignificant relics at best. Yet we continue to struggle with enforcement costs in addition to sewer costs past and future. We are still out here with orders that could see us prosecuted by the Attorney General's office if we fail to comply. We remain stark reminders of what our government in the form of cowardly bureaucrats can still do to anyone while other cowardly bureaucrats look on.

GetRealOsos said...

Bev,

I wish Dan Blackburn would have covered the CDO people. How can you do a story without mentioning that the 218 was a blackmail vote and that the CDO people were used to scare everyone into voting yes.

Maybe Blackburn should do another video to include more information.

What the RWQCB did to you and others is criminal. I wish you all would have hired a civil rights attorney rather than Shaunna, a very wealthy real estate attorney who works for the water board.

The stress has killed people, given them strokes, divorces, and made everyone else mentally ill. Does the RWQCB or County care? NO.

It's never been about water, if it was the RWQCB would have made Morro Bay (who really pollutes) do something rather than just focusing on LO.

Many of us hope that Blackburn's piece will get us the attention we need to shed light on the governmental agencies that break the law, go around the law, and are just plain cruel.

Anonymous said...

Beverly,

You wrote: "We are still out here with orders that could see us prosecuted by the Attorney General's office if we fail to comply."

Your comments are very sad for the depth of their foolishness. I thought you were smarter than that but I was wrong. So much of what you've written here is utter nonsense.

How much did you donate to PZLDF? Such a waste. Will it affect your ability to pay for the sewer? Tragic, really. Shaunna got richer, Gail huffed and puffed, and everyone else got poorer. The suit was ridiculous, unnecessary and a guaranteed loser - Gail made sure of that... that was her job.

The CDO people were totally exploited. Gail empowered you, as she does with all the wounded and low self-esteemers, and you made long speeches, wrote poetry and got on TV. So you felt important and thought you were actually doing something when you weren't doing anything except playing a role like an actor in a play.

I love you, Beverly, but being a fool was never in your best interests ... and you continue to blind yourself to this day so you don't have to deal with the overwhelming reality of your stupidity.

The CDOs were just a device to leverage a positive 218. That's all. They never were or will be.

Stop the crying game.

Sewertoons said...

Anonymous 7:18 you might investigate some anger management classes; it could do you a world of good. But for now, let's address reading comprehension. "Whining" about paying property taxes? I never said that.

Why don't we simply discuss the questions I posed above?

Anonymous said...

Lynette you DIMWIT, go back & re-read everything YOU have been HARPING on, You're like a damn fishwife for God's sake...How can Lou even stand you? You will turn a SAINT into a BASKET CASE. Go back to your knitting, dearie.

Sewertoons said...

Beverly has the courage to put her name on her comment, yet you Anon 11:18, you who profess to "love" her in your swirl of denigrations, do not. Why is that?

Anonymous said...

Anger management classes... sounds like a good suggestion coming from a wife whose husband was once arrested for battery. Very nice!

Anonymous said...

Sewertoons wrote: "You Anon 11:18, you who profess to "love" her in your swirl of denigrations, do not (use your real name). Why is that?"

"Denigrate" is your word, not mine. I criticize Beverly because, as I wrote, "I love her" and care that much -- I hate to see her suffer. Unlike you, who disingenuously try to pit me against Bev, who wish her pain and sorrow and insult her by relentlessly promoting the unaffordable sewer that will drive her out of town. Pretty sick stuff, Lynette.

I won't use my real name because I don't want to be trolled by you, like you do everyone else who seeks affordability and a fair process.

You are the creepiest person in town.

Alon Perlman said...

How is it we know the anon's so well?
Three little voices ring ring ring the same bell.

Sewertoons said...

But anon 5:04, it is OK for you to "troll" me, right?

You have told Bev these things to her face I take it? Otherwise, if she reads this, she might feel creeped out by you.

BTW, the process is over, whether or not I promote this sewer is irrelevant, so rant all you like, it won't change anything.

You are right Alon, the voices are unmistakeable. If you have no answers to questions, no relevant information, just slam the questioner. We have seen this technique over and over, have we not?

Sewertoons said...

"Anger management classes... sounds like a good suggestion coming from a wife whose husband was once arrested for battery. Very nice!"
Anon 5:54

Say, how's that child beating going these days? Just wondering…

Anonymous said...

Yes! By YOU, ASSHOLE.

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

Ironically you say, "If you have no answers to questions, no relevant information, just slam the questioner. We have seen this technique over and over, have we not?..."

Have you answered my big questions Lynette?

1. Why would the County go ahead and do gravity collection when they were warned it wasn't a good thing or wise to do in the sand, hills, and earthquakes by Dr. T and other experts in their field?

2. How many millions will the County take from PZ homeowners on this project?

Then County owes LO monies from property taxes over the years -- they spent LO money on other areas and never gave back to LO.

3. And now a new question that you should be able to answer too, is Maria really dating Paavo?

Anonymous said...

GetRealOsos, You're asking a DIMWIT some really tough questions! You know full well "MS. IknowEverythingThereIsWorthKnowing"will NOT answer anything...She has a script she MUST stick with. As to question #3. But of course Maria & Paavo are "an item", I saw them (really cozy) a few weeks ago over by French Hospital. Now if THAT isn't romantic!

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:51 Someone saw them get into a van in SLO and later saw the van rocking back and forth! What do you think of THAT!!!!?

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 9:51 Hey! I saw the exact same THING. I thought we must've been having an earthquake or something! THIS LIAISON just reeks of "CONFLICT OF INTEREST", I mean, after all, here we have the head of SLO Public Works (think LO sewer project) cavorting with none other than the VP of the LOCSD! This sure doesn't pass the SMELL TEST, but I'm sure Lynette will disagree, saying "trust the county". HA! Check court docs for paperwork regarding MK's pending divorce!

FOGSWAMP said...

Alon ........ You made a good point regarding liquefaction and our leach systems in high groundwater. Didn't read your "long comprehensive explanation".

INMHO, some of the "concrete cofffins" septic tanks you refer to may well fall apart, probably because they were of poor quality built in the early days using insufficient portland cement, causing rebar to rust, etc.

However, with today's technology they can be built submarine tough to be underground, reinforced with 100% rust resistant steel (using special anodes), airtight and waterproof, with a 35 year track record.
This technology is used all over the world in underground shelters.

Also, they can even be earthquake-proof (to a degree) using shaker tables to study the effects of earthquakes, as the University of Buffalo are doing today.

Today's septic tanks even have plastics seals to prevent the floatables from escaping.

The whole premise that we must move our tanks to the front yard for inspection reasons doesn't make any sense. The County Basin Plan calls for a maintenance and inspection of all septic tanks but doesn't require everyone in the County with a septic tank to move them.

With a myriad of uncertainties in the case of a cataclysmic earthquake, preparedness is difficult or impossible to achieve.

TCG said...

After reading these posts, I can't begin to explain how glad I am that our family finally moved out of Los Osos.

Sewertoons said...

GRO,

1) I had to do some research. I believe you said it was in the December 4, NWRI Report that Dr. T made the claims you state above. I wanted to find this report online so we could ALL share, but I couldn't. So I referenced the report I had on my hard drive. I did not find those statements in that report. So I did a search of documents I have for Tchobanoglous, but could not find it there either. Maybe you can point me to the document where that is stated.

Here is what I did find in the NWRI report that critiqued the Ripley Report:

P.3 "The first priority of the project must remedy the existing water pollution control problems." (So Dr. T sees a problem!)

"The continued use of individual septic tank/leachfield systems for a community of this size does not reflect the modern state of wastewater management." (So the septics are NOT doing their job.)

P. 4 " There is groundwater pollution from leaching of septic wastewater, as well as a rise in the shallow groundwater level due to septic system discharges."

"Septic system discharges are polluting surface water supplies (for example, the Morro Bay shoreline)."

P. 5 "The least costly and most easily implemented solution would involve appropriate treatment out-of-town with land application (with spray irrigation). Reuse options could be added at a later date (phase) to return water for in-town landscape irrigation, for agricultural reuse, and for irrigation of cemeteries and playgrounds." (Maybe that is where the County got the idea for the Tonini property?)

P. 6 "A public outreach campaign is needed that leads to a positive Proposition 218 vote (property owners). Build a program around the people who support the need for a wastewater solution."

I'll go to the next post to finish as I'm probably at my limit.

Sewertoons said...

Other words from Dr. T:

"Per Dr. Tchobanoglous’ comments in the Release of Draft Fine Screening Report: all existing septic tanks must be replaced if a STEP system is used."

Found on page 6 from Statement of Key Environmental Issues for the Collection
System of the Los Osos Wastewater Treatment Project
Presented to the Board of Supervisors of San Luis Obispo County
September 9, 2008 by
San Luis Bay Chapter of the Sufrider Foundation, SLO Green Build, Santa Lucia Chapter of the Sierra Club, the Terra Foundation, Los Osos Sustainability Group and the Northern Chumash Tribal Council

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 9:51 That explains WHY Paavo "hand-picked" Maria for the TAC. She was having an affair with him WHILE she was married. And this is Lynette's BFF! I don't know if it's conflict of interest or not, but it sure is LYING and CHEATING and making a mockery out of the Technical/Sexual Advisory/69 Committee!!!! And this is Lynette's BFF! They are SO much alike. Sick birds of a feather... Paavo together!!!!????

Sewertoons said...

GRO,

2. How many millions will the County take from PZ homeowners on this project?

Answer $189 million, not the $220 million as asserted by Al in that recent video.

3. Ready?Click here!

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 11:30 scuze moi mon ame, but I'ma thinka dats' a calla "menage a trois no?

Alon Perlman said...

Hi Fog, Actually I didn’t end up posting it, but then Toons and Ann and I happened to post about STEP over at Ron’s the other day.
Please do go there since it’s 3 viewpoints. See my first and my final comment (Drawing in-Let’s not)
For the Quake Shaker-Since each system is different each would fail differently (and partly predictably) and different parts of the system would fail at different times. The water table is expected to lower gradually, so less liquefaction in 15 years. Actually the no sewer “Option” has the most liquefaction danger.
The Ripley plan had 95 % replacement Don had a Step Tank out in farmers market- Huge but sturdy.
Since 1100 new homes (All in PZ?) were built, most of their tanks could possibly qualify structurally (if they were sized right for the home).
Notice Toons comment re Dr. Tchaboneglas ( ?)
Structurally I’d go with the modern tanks plastic not concrete, they would probably remain intact but the connecting pipes would rip off. Since its not happening- We could also consider what would happen to a vacuum system in case of an earthquake. The midtown site is a greater liquefaction risk , It’s a drainage basin. But on the flip side would have shorter mains, whereas Giacomazzi takes sewage out and brings tertiary back over a large distance. So more risk of disruption over distance. I’m not an engineer but I know how engineering works (as do you), they weigh multiple risks against each other. I also know how information flows in Los Osos.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 11:30 "menage a trois no?

Oui! And so... with the powers invested in me as supervisor... I hereby pronounce you, Paavo & Maria, lawfully wedded American Penguin and Scandinavian Penguin... Sewertoons may now kiss the supervisor! Kickbacks all around!!!!

Spectator said...

The only truth I saw in this video was blaming the county for the whole problem when permits for septic tanks were issued so building and property taxes would increase. Guilty!

Other than that, the people in the video are the same people who have fought the sewer for years, any sewer. Any sewer was too expensive for them. The cost of this sewer should have been assumed by the entire county. No supervisor would want the criticism from his voters for this.

Otherwise, we all are going to suffer because of bad governance.

In the meantime, I do not think a sewer will be built during my lifetime. The courts will decide.

Anonymous said...

Fogswamp,Your post at 8:27 was interesting,you have pointed out that the "new" septics are much stronger & more reliable than the older types. Why wouldn't this new type septic satisfy the CCRWQCB & the County? Seems like a much cheaper & "greener" alternative.

Churadogs said...

Anonymous sez:"I love you, Beverly, but being a fool was never in your best interests ... and you continue to blind yourself to this day so you don't have to deal with the overwhelming reality of your stupidity."

Bwa-hahahahah. I love you, you stupid fool? Really. Bwa-hahahah. I've said before, will say again, it never ceases to amaze me how Anonnymice think they're, well, anonymous, but how blazingly they expose their too-often Ugly On A Stick souls by their very words. Amazing.

Anon sez again:"I criticize Beverly because, as I wrote, "I love her" and care that much -- I hate to see her suffer."

Bwahahahah. Aw, Gawwwwdddd.

Toonces sez;" You are right Alon, the voices are unmistakeable. If you have no answers to questions, no relevant information, just slam the questioner. We have seen this technique over and over, have we not"

YES! We have. Remember "Anti-Sewer Obstructionist?" That's the all-time classic.

FOGSWAMP said...

Alon, regarding your plastic sewer tank choice in an earthquake prone environment.

Check out U-tube engineering tests "Precast Concrete Septic Tanks vs Polyethylene Plastic".

AB885 now requires all newly installed septic tanks to be certified by International Association of Plumbing & Mechanical Officials, as of July 2010.

If plastic is not excluded in California, as in some other States maybe it should be eh?

Sewertoons said...

Good golly - look at the SIZE of those things!

Anonymous said...

Ann sez: Bwa-hahahahah. I love you, you stupid fool? Really.

Really.

Obviously you've never had children.

Have you ever really loved?

Keep the answer to yourself. I'm only interested in the question.

Anonymous said...

Churadogs@ 7:54AM. I, too detest that over-used phrase, "ANTI-SEWER OBSTRUCTIONIST", it's about time Lynette & HER ILK put that tired,phrase to rest, once & for all. This Community will remain devided if Lynette & LeGros keep FLAPPING THEIR LIPS with such derogatory tripe. They are 2 of the most pompous,arrogant & irrelevant people I have EVER seen, and TRUST ME, I've seen plenty!

Alon Perlman said...

Hi Fog
Did you look at recent comments on Ron’s site? Never say never, and out of respect to the fact that you and TCG and possibly one other are the only true anonymous posting here, I’ll continue ; Great research, Didn’t know that. Not sure if you know that the Los Osos Septic plan by Ripley called for plastic tanks. Even so there was a legitimate concern by the county of how to get the 1500 gallon capacity tanks into the back yards. Very different from the case of building it from the ground up. So concrete could only be installed in front except if you had right of way through an empty lot in the back of your property. The video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WZG3QmkCOc
I’ll watch later but since the ground does not freeze here there may be advantages for one over the other in other states or situations

Alon Perlman said...

Fog PART DEUX

Liquefaction- Concrete floats- Reference Concrete ships of WWII. With wastes at X pounds per gallon (Someone mentioned to me how much a gallon weighs, but that was this morning, so I forgot.) The airspace would determine what happens to the tank. Came up in TAC or previously- IN high ground water ( or Questa) or 7th and el moro swamp. Belt/tie tank down to concrete bars. Pop up sink or buoyancy neutral. In any case (dry sand included) the two connections are likely to snap. Another issue; Power supply interruption. (Step and possibly Vacuum) Another issue; Water supply interruption (all technologies). Another issue; when you go into the garage after the big one you may find the upstairs bathroom bidet sitting on top of your car. Lucky if you still have a roof.
The waterboard is wrong (impractical and or expensive) in many areas. Some more than others. Saving the Environment-It’s a tough problem.

Sewertoons said...

Anon 4:42 - I think that you are ascribing way-y-y-y-y too much power to Richard and I. He stopped blogging and I am just one person writing on some sewer blogs which are read by only us few. Big deal. But it is clear you like having a platform for dissing us!

Anonymous said...

Blah, blah, blah, Lynette. Your incendiary language has pit people against each other, and death threats have even resulted from it.

You've even SOLICITED people to go after the "obstructionists."

Stay classy!

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

When I asked how much the County would take from the PZ -- of course I meant their fee for taking the project.

Is it 15%?

It is way too much, way too much. They already spent, what, $8 million, some of that for a project with hundreds of acres with spray fields? ... and that didn't fly with the Planning Commission ... Geez! What a waste of public taxpayer funds. Geez!

Not only have they wasted money but will collect millions when they owe LO millions. Geez!

Lynette, we have to plan for earthquakes. Gravity with traditional plant will not work as well as vacuum with ponds and it will cost twice as much. Why would the County dismiss the better environmental project that cost less?

Well, I think I know the answer to that one, the more they spend the more money they make and the more people that are forced out.

Geez!

Anonymous said...

BUH-By Lynette, you irrelevant TWIT! I'm BLOTTING YOU out, your attitude is just so condecending,You're not worth my time...

Sewertoons said...

GRO, Ripley's play called for sprayfields! The County was just following RIPLEY'S PLAN! That actually WAS cheaper - but no - the enviros didn't like that SAME PLAN when the County proposed it! So now we have what we have with a lot of extras to pay for that were added by the same people whining that it costs too much! They were trying force a full de novo hearing by bringing up all these "problems" with the County's plan to get the Coastal Commission to bring back Step —— and it BACKFIRED!

Fine, you think ponds and vacuum are the answer. We aren't getting that and it won't change. So learn to live with it. Or move to a town with vacuum and ponds!

Adios Anon 9:30. No none ever forced you to read here did they?

Churadogs said...

Toonces sez:"Ripley's play called for sprayfields!"

That plan was total ag/exchange reuse. The county just planned to dump the stuff.

Anonymous sez:"BUH-By Lynette, you irrelevant TWIT! I'm BLOTTING YOU out, your attitude is just so condecending,You're not worth my time..."

Uh, I think the word "projection" is what you're looking for here. Projection is when you call someone's attitude condescending by sniffing condescendingly and saying,"You're not worth my time, you little Twit." Well, no matter, we love you Dearie Anon, even if your soul is demonstrably Ugly On A Stick but you're too blind to see, Poor Dear, since we hate to see you suffer so with your anger, since it's only hurting you and since we love you we certainly wouldn't want to see you suffer, now would we?

Anonymous said...

Here we go again, Lynette...YOU suggesting anyone NOT in agreement with the County's "plan" should just move the hell out of town...You sure have ALL THE ANSWERS, don't you? However, your "solutions", like YOU, are IRRELEVANT!

FOGSWAMP said...

Alon ..... You stated "Actually the no sewer "Option" has more danger ".

Drying up our upper soil layer in the event of an earthquake would indeed slow the earthquake liquefaction factor, as only you so far as i know, have pointed out for discussion.

However, using a "gravity system" to do it is wrongheaded IMHO for the following good reasons.

As the long outdated County study Toons linked to clearly states, there is a "significant" danger in a liquefaction senerio using a Step or Gravity system.

Effluent that escapes from gravity sewer lines during liquefaction via leakage is raw sewage. This may be actively decomposing and maybe even mixed with industrial chemicals.

If the deep underground sewer line is close to (or under) the groundwater, and is upheaved during liquefaction it will surely leak contaminants below the biologically active zone of the soil and introduced into the receiving groundwater.

What better way can one think of to introduce chlorides, bacteria, viruses, unstable organics, trace metals and other chemicals that produce foul tastes and odors so deep into our groundwater?

Surely it makes more sense to use modern day heavy sealed tanks with a long proven track record, unlike fiberglass or plastic, and keep our crap for the bug to freely eat. Thus avoid creating another problem.

Anonymous said...

Makes perfect sense, Fog

Anonymous said...

Ann, shut up, seriously. You criticize anon for being "ugly on a stick" yet you support provocative, pathological liars who tell people who disagree with her to "move out."

Los Osos should not take cues from a clueless, old bitch like you, Ann.

FOGSWAMP said...

Anon ..... Thanks.

The problem, as I see it, (and others), with Step/Stag has been, the salespersons not the system.

Sewertoons said...

Yes, Ripley proposed ag reuse - eventually - and that was the County's plan too - reuse - but it was leaving that aspect up to the purveyors to do that, rather than to put those costs onto the project. I think the County was coming up with the cheapest plan possible for the sewer. But as that didn't fly, the sewer costs went up and up with all of the amendments and additions. Sure it is "greener" but what cracks me up is the same people who added these additional costs are the ones moaning about how expensive the project is.

At what point are we looking at apples and apples? How do the costs of this project compare with the costs of Tri-W? The financing is the key. Right now it looks like the monthly costs are cheaper to the County project, but in the long run you pay a lot more. And then there is the fact that we have gone so many more years without any real water conservation as we must do with this project - that was built into the old project. That lack has cost the community too.

Looks like there could be an additional aspect to the project if the Water Board gets its way on the Waste Discharge Requirement permit. It wants this project to have a septic management program. That was part of the old project, but not this one.

Sewertoons said...

FOG, what do you think that we are doing right now with, "If the deep underground sewer line is close to (or under) the groundwater, and is upheaved during liquefaction it will surely leak contaminants below the biologically active zone of the soil and introduced into the receiving groundwater?" We have leach pits that feed directly into the groundwater.

Anonymous said...

Fog, I couldn't agree with you MORE! Not to mention some of the vocal "hangers on" to those salesmen...such as the leading "grifter" of Los Osos! He just ads to the "confusion" & problems, in my opinion. Of course it didn't help when Gail McPherson inserted herself into the situation, she just "muddied the waters" even more!

Alon Perlman said...

Preaching to the Choir Fog. I think to some degree STEP would had been Superior Environmentally for Los Osos but would not had been any cheaper.
As for the salesmen being the problem? Short and succinct; I’d say yes
But in the longer explanation you have to include the post 05 CSD who promoted STEP but did not get Al Barrow out of the loop thereby hurting their credibility and STEP’s.
And the negative association between STEP and the “MWH is the Devil” brigade, as well as advocacy by people who did not have any technical background but needed to be experts. That is what killed STEPs last chances.
Not sure why you feel Plastics are not equivalent to State of the art concrete, after all I thought I demonstrated logically that you can’t safely get a large concrete tank into Osos back yards. Are you offering an alternative to Ripley? His is tanks were plastic.
You’d think that laying out a rational argument, would get you somewhere, Fog.
You would think that coming up with an ORIGINAL, never stated before argument, would gain you more access so that you could get your next point across.

Alon Perlman said...

Continued to FOG; At a time it mattered more, (The TAC). I came up with “Once the liquid wastes have stewed in the septic tank for a few days the pathogenicity is decreased bacterial composition in the tank changes in succession and the stuff coming out is less infectious”
Simple but true. I’ve never had a problem impressing the actual professional experts.
And the “biologically active zone” doesn’t matter in a serious spill because of the volume.
In case of an earthquake BOTH systems will dump those same chemicals into the groundwater. You put some impressive stuff out there yourself, but don’t get ahead of yourself. That is what happened to some well intentioned people, who read what they themselves wrote and it looked pretty professional and their friends were impressed and so they felt entitled as “Los Osos Sewer Experts” On a blog a debate between you and I we could both be wrong, doesn’t matter much. On the Planning Commissioner’s floor presenting STEP by non-experts and conspiracy theorists didn’t work. Of course the lesson some learned, is what they wanted to learn. “We are right, they are wrong. They won’t do what we want because they are corrupt”
Word verification "dessent"

FOGSWAMP said...

Sokay Toons .... How many martinis did you have when you read my post and defaulted into that Gibson type combative mode?

The exact opposite was suggested. Get rid of the leach fields and dry up the upper crust.

FOGSWAMP said...

Alon ....... Putting the heavy concrete tanks into our backyards is really a non-issue.

Cranes have been around for centuries.

With a little sweet talk and persuasion by our CSD, our local crane man Tutt would likely set them almost free.

Concrete tanks are much cheaper than plastic. The difference would probably go a long ways toward paying for the short crane lift.

With all the earthquake bells ringing around Diablo these days, surely our county fathers will awaken and examine the affect of the newly found Shoreline Fault, just half mile offshore, on our proposed gravity project.

Is it not naive over-dependence to just sweep it under the rug?

Sewertoons said...

Hi FOG, I'm sorry, I meant no combativeness, and no — no Martinis were involved. I apologize, you are right. I should have used different words.

As to "Gibson type combative mode" I disagree with that terminology but will offer up an equally distasteful one - an "Linde type combative mode."

Here is where I went off your meaning, it sounded to me like you didn't want gravity and want to return to the fork in the road where Step and gravity were still being vetted. If you are talking about when those outside the PZ need to replace tanks, then yes, you and Alon are having a good discussion here that could be useful for the future.

I went away for a couple of hours to watch a DVD - "Billy Budd" - which has stood the test of time remarkably well as movies go and offers a good lesson to our situation.

I came back to see your next post. While I'm glad to see that you see the need for sewerage, I am surprised that you do not see the impossibility of what you ask. Or the ramifications. It took years of process after 2005 to get us here, and while it might not take that long once again to get a different project through the Planning Commission, the Coastal Commission and all the other agencies, we will have lost our USDA monies our SRF monies, much more of our lower aquifer — AND there is no guarantee that the advisory survey would come back any differently and request Step. Also, Gibson's letter requesting the release of CDOs has not been answered. We are talking about a release of sewage, which can be rectified in days, weeks, and in the worst case months, not radioactivity, which goes on for milleniums.

Churadogs said...

Anon sez:"Los Osos should not take cues from a clueless, old bitch like you, Ann."

Awww, Anon. I never realized how much you LOVED me! Gosh. How sweet. Thanks.

Toonces sez:"Looks like there could be an additional aspect to the project if the Water Board gets its way on the Waste Discharge Requirement permit. It wants this project to have a septic management program."

THAT puppy (Septic management district) went back to Resolution 83-13-14 (or was it 83-12) as in YEARS ago and should have been enforced then on the entire PZ, also years ago, when the county still owned Los Osos. Never happened. Like so much that should of happened but never did.

Alon Perlman said...

Top o’ the weekend to you all. Rotory club is having a planting to beautify Los Osos starting at 9:00 details posted on the CSD board. I’ll be de-planting to beautify Los Osos on the other side of Town with the other elves.
Fog; If all it took was to run lines disconnecting the leach fields/pits and collecting to a central undisclosed location .THE town would have a STEP SEWER by now. I know the Tuttinator some. Don’t know that he has at least 10 cranes. I was at the TAC when some of this was discussed and there are a lot of low overhanging wires dead and living trees (Ann Knows) Houses built on narrow lots without adequate setbacks from each other. I’d have to ask Mike but even with a crane crew separate from installation crews. I doubt that it is possible for one crane to do 2 jobs in one day. ( maybe if everything is lined up in advance, tanks delivered in advance 3 adjacent residences as a max rate-not an average. ---->

Alon Perlman said...

More 4 Fog----> So if we are looking at say 3650 residences requiring cranes you’d need a serious fleet of cranes (10) and crews to get it done in say a year without holidays. Logistics logistics logistics. It is not unlikely you’d need 2 full time people just to coordinate the trenching crews versus the tank delivery crews. There are many locations where the current roadway will not support a crane of the size needed. For a plastic STEP Tank. And you are going with double reinforced concrete? Its not impossible but we are no longer talking about a 186 or 220 mil project. Remember whether they understood what they were answering or not, a significantly larger number of respondents said “Nah uh”.

Alon Perlman said...

Oh BTW this is from the top of my head. I'm ssure ther is an FEIR somewhere where this was looked at.
Gotta run...

Anonymous said...

Alon,
What makes YOU think that 3,650 septics are located in back yards? Most people i've spoken with (and it's a lot), have THEIR septics in the FRONT yard. Therefore, the task would NOT be difficult, as Fog has pointed out.

Anonymous said...

Fog, You've made some very valid points here & please don't be discouraged by the likes of "Sewertoons" AKA Lynette Tornatsky...She's "el blotto" from all those martini's & fruitcakes! She's also in lock-step with the County, Taxpayer Watch & the "Dreamers".

Anonymous said...

Churadogs, It's really too bad that the "septic management district" NEVER went into affect, AGAIN, that's just one of MANY big BLUNDERS made by the corrupt SLO County. Isn't it about time that the County 'fesses up to all those serious "ERRORS & OMISSIONS" on THEIR part? If it had been a "citizen" who made so many serious blunders, they would STILL be paying for their "crimes" or sitting it out somewhere in the slammer.

Sewertoons said...

Guess who pays for a Septic Management District? C'mon Anon, take a wild guess!

Sewertoons said...

According to the Fine Screening Report page 59, 25% of the septic tanks are located in the back yard.

Alon is right though, replacing the tanks with reinforced concrete tanks would be VERY expensive.

FOGSWAMP said...

Toons ...... I guess you can seal composite tanks as well as concrete, however It's doubtful the Water Board will approve them. Remember long ago when they said no systems will be approved that doesn't have a long (20 or 30 year) proven track record.

The specific gravity (SP) of concrete tank is about 2.40 and will resist buoyant forces better than fiberglass reinforced plastic with an SP of 1.86 and high density polyethylene SP of 0.97.

Concrete tanks are recommended to be connected to the home with flexible lines to avoid separation problems to a degree.

Yes indeed, weight is one hell of a drawback during installation as Alon pointed out so well.

"Very expensive" you say. Since when did that matter? Cost dam AB2701 has no limits or affordability clause.

Thanks for the explanation on your mis-post.

Time for my grey-goose attitude adjustment. It's 5:00 O'clock somewhere, I was just told by a thirsty visitor at my door.

Sewertoons said...

Ha-ha-ha! Enjoy the Grey Goose adjustment - it sure fits the color of the day! Almost looks like it will rain!

I haven't hear a thing about this flexible line thing from Al or anywhere else. Do you need to protect it somehow? How much weight can it take?

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