Aww, Gawd, Ponies, Books and now . . . houses?
"Corruption Eruption!" at http://rockofthecoast.com/
Awwww. Gawd. . .
Pages
Calhouns Can(n)ons
About the Can(n)ons
Calhoun's Can(n)ons was originally published in 1990 in the (now defunct) Morro Bay, CA, Sun Bulletin, and since 1992 has continued in the various resurrections of the Los Osos, CA. Bay News, Bay Breeze, Bay News, Bay News-Tolosa Press. A few years ago, the Can(n)on was added to the Central Coast NewsMission blogsite. Ann Calhoun lives in Los Osos. You can email her at Churadogs at gmail dot com
To be persuasive, we must be believable. To be believable, we must be credible. To be credible, we must be truthful.
Edward R. Murrow
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; the essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The Little Prince
No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the misfortune is to do it solemnly.
Montaigne
Edward R. Murrow
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; the essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The Little Prince
No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the misfortune is to do it solemnly.
Montaigne
Followers
Posts
Calhouns Can(n)ons
Search Calhoun's Can(n)ons
Adopt a Dog or Cat Today
Local Bloggers and Friends
Blog Archive
-
▼
2009
(204)
-
▼
May
(19)
- Your Saturday Poem From "American Primitive," Poem...
- Field Trip! Field Trip!The Planning Commission is ...
- Planning Commission TodayThe Planning Commission w...
- Calhoun’s Can(n)ons for May 28, 2009I Do, I Do, Yo...
- Look, Mommy, Interesting Dots . . .So, let’s add a...
- Your Saturday PoemThis is one of my favorite poems...
- Aww, Gawd, Ponies, Books and now . . . houses?"Cor...
- Calhoun’s Can(n)ons for May 21, 2009Aw, Gawd, Pull...
- Hurry! Hurry Hurry!Run, do not walk' skip, do not ...
- Your Saturday PoemFrom "American Primitive," Poems...
- Show Me Da Money!As folks here in Los Osos know, t...
- Oh, Thanks For Letting Me Know, Guys ...Typical. S...
- Rock 'em, Sock 'em, Part II"When the Microphone We...
- And Now, Another VoiceThe following was written by...
- Formal Complaint to BOSThe following was presented...
- Is That A Morph or Memorex? Uh-oh, Ron Crawford's ...
- Your Sunday PoemThis by Mary Oliver from "American...
- Now It Can Be ToldThis is a Sewerville Story. For...
- Calhouns Can(n)ons for May 1, 2009Oh, Look, It’s C...
-
▼
May
(19)
Central Coast News Radio
Central Coast NewsLinks
CCNM Disclaimer: Calhoun's Can(n)on content copyright wholly owned by Ann Calhoun. Central Coast NewsMission site name and branding images, content and customization copyright © 2005 - 2009. Images courtesy page author, Ann Calhoun, and CCNM editor, Greg McClure; sponsors; and public domain. All writers are responsible for their articles. Permission granted to quote articles herein on a fair use basis, please credit the writer.
141 comments:
What was Vacuum Collect not studied?
STEP/STEG will be a part of the process!
”yea, right”…
Mark
Vacuum was studied. See Chapter 6 of the March 2007 Rough Screening Report.
http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/AssetFactory.aspx?did=12003
Cities with vacuum systems, STEP and low pressure systems were contacted and a report was published describing the positive and negative qualities of all the alternatives.
Vacuum was not sufficiently studied as a PZ wide collection system but was only relegated to be used in the high water areas. Therefore a true cost comparison and evaluation was not made. This decision was made prior to the hiring of the people that would prepare the rough and fine screening technical memos thus a true dollar and coequal analysis was never made. If it was to pencil out cheaper than Gravity or Step then it should be given consideration. But as Noel King said in the beginning of this process. It's going to be gravity.
Gravity, STEP, Vacuum, a hole in the ground...who the hell cares?
TIME WASTED is what is driving up costs; not the technologies or WWTP location to be used. So as you all quibble over the various 'technologies and location du jour', costs just keep going up, up and up wiping out any cost 'savings' you think will be gained via your preferred project.
So cut to the chase and build whatever you can as quickly as you can in order to stop the hemorrhaging of the community's life blood.
For if you do not, in the end, you will all sadly pay dearly for your foibles.
-R
Oh Richard,
Come on.
If Vacuum or Step would cost $100 million less, than that's worth doing.
As I've said before, contractors need work and prices have come down too.
Besides, why would you pick MWH who is the most expensive rather than doing the project right and have a sustainable and cost effective project?
Tri-W was wrong, Tonoini is wrong, gravity is wrong.
You couldn't do it, Pandora can't do it, and the County can't do it either.
We could have built a good system (even if it's not needed) if there wasn't so much corruption and money to be made by a few. But, you know all about that.
In order for vacuum to be cheaper, two or more homes (that vacuum company says up to seven homes) --need to SHARE a valve pit (55 gallons)- and the one with the least luck gets it on THEIR property! Same problem with step - access to private property.
And if someone dumps a boatload of tampons into the system and screws it up - you all will get to pay to fix it. If the power goes out - you have very, very little storage, 7 to 8 hours. Each little pump station will need to have its own back-up generator and the folks at the BOTTOM of a hill - well, good luck, keep the lid down on the toilet and plugs in the drains!!!
Of course, a salesman will tell you the system is FABULOUS!
GRO,
Believe what you wish....in the end you will have to pay whatever the cost IF you want to stay in Los Osos.
In my opinion, expect around $500 per month (cost of new project + cost of rejecting old project + cost of bankruptcy). That's just the way it is, GRO. Better start planning now if you want to stay.
As you pay the $500 per month, just think of how much you gained by stopping a fully designed, permitted and funded project. You got exactly what you voted for... the honor and privilege of wasting time as you plan for the next 'best' project. Enjoy!
-R
Richard,
Thanks.
I firmly believe that you couldn't pull off the Tri-W anyway.
There was no vote.
Sure, you can argue that (because everything was legal according to you) but the fact is that the Bankruptcy judge agrees with me.
The loan was unsecured.
Your Tri-W was going to put unwanted material into the bay too.
...and let's not forget about the bids -- you could have done better than 40 some percent higher.
That would mean no kick-back money though...
Oh, what you like to leave out of your post...!!
Sewertoons:
Who's writing your material?
Paavo??
Richard,
By the way, exactly how is the County planning to pass along the CSD Bankruptcy debt? A 218? Just for the PZ?
Can you explain?
Also, did the Army Corp of Engineers look at Tri-W?
GRO,
As I said, believe whatever crap you want as it makes absolutely no difference to me.
Meanwhile, as you pay through the nose for standing by your 'beliefs', smile! knowing you got exactly what you voted for.
LOL, R
Richard,
Fine, but since you brought it up, please explain how the Bankruptcy debt will be collected.
A 218? Is it just for the PZ?
GRO-
One more time : That loan was secured by bonds, not a 218, which was not required by law AT THAT TIME. Are you sure you're not Piper??
Richard,
You (just like Steve Rein) can't and won't answer any questions. You call it crap.
*Overbids?
*Dumping (pumping into the Bay)?
*No 218 for Tri-W (Bankruptcy Judge says the same)?
*Army Corp of Engineer's approval?
...that's crap to you Richard?
P.S. You are "laughing out loud" over what? ...your mistakes? Your involvement with Pandora and Paavo for years and years?
Alabamasue,
Sure...just keep repeating that until you think it's true.
Now, that's funny. I'm LOL with Richard!
GRO,
LOL...I am laughing at you!
You do not want 'answers'...you want someone to blame for your own idiocy. You have made your decisions...so live with them!
LOL
Richard,
You shouldn't get mad at private citizens and anonymous bloggers. They're not wasting time and driving up the costs. You said it yourself, inflation is driving up the costs naturally.
Quite frankly, I would imagine that your crosshairs would be more focused on the County for not going with your preferred project -- and instead, going with a flawed project (with clear objections made by the CCC and the USF&W).
The County is who you need to focus on, not the people who the County is supposed to serve.
Aaron is right ... but for one thing ... Richard should be allowed to say "you're getting what you asked for when you voted me out" because, after all, it is true.
Hi Aaron,
Do not worry...I am not 'mad' at Anons, etc. I am very amused though.
I explain that time wasted (inflation), not selection of preferred technologies or location, is what drives up costs.
The way off-the-mark responses to this fact were very funny.
The County process, having stalled/failed, will force the decision makers to acknowledge the failure and change policy. They are now at exactly the same point in the process that the CSD / Solution Group were back in 2000. Like the then CSD, the County decision makers now have no choice but to read the 'writing on the wall' posted by the CCC and the USF&W; and act accordingly. As to how long this change will take is uncertain; but change will come.
-R
Prefix: Please point to Paavo’s consulting engineer’s “rough screening report” where Cities with Gravity systems that were contacted and a report was published describing the positive and negative qualities of all the alternatives.
Unless and until vacuum and or grinder pump are laid side by side with gravity and a "co-equal" evaluation is made, you will not know just what you are buying.
Richard,
All of your chuckling is troublesome partly because you are not paying for "it" and mostly because you are confused...30 foot clarifiers and such. Quack and Fib.
Aaron,
Richard is much more of a Judas goat than a concerned citizen.
Mark,
For a long time you've been asking why vacuum wasn't studied ... presumably you didn't know that it had been or else you wouldn't have been asking the question.
Now that someone pointed out where vacuum was, indeed, studied and found to be wanting you are now raising a red herring ... saying that the comparison wasn't the sort that you want. At the rough screening stage they're trying to limit the scope of inquiry so that way money isn't wasted studying systems which appear to be not a good fit for our town. It is at a later point in the screening process that those which pass the first stages will be compared in the way you want all systems to be compared.
Frankly Mark, I still wonder about your involvement here. You say that you want what is best for us but you are asking that the County go back in time and re-do their earlier evaluations of various technologies which you are now promoting but didn't at the time when it would have been appropriate. Essentially, as a way of helping us you are asking that we spend more money studying something that you think would help us even though those who are decision makers have already determined such additional study would likely not have a payoff big enough to justify the cost.
If your money and butt were on the line and if you were not selling a competing product or even if you lived locally it would be a whole lot easier to take your comments as serious.
And if I were you, I would not suggest you make such a big deal out of what you perceive to be another's poor choice of words. It shows both immaturity and, in this case, hypocrisy.
GetReal,
I'm getting a little tired of you (and M) saying that I don't answer your questions. Sometimes I don't see your questions (on busy days or in old comment sections) but I always try to ask you what your question was.
Second, just because you don't like my answer doesn't mean that I haven't answered.
Third, some questions I simply cannot answer. For example, if a question is "why did Paavo say such-n-such?" I have absolutely no idea.
This is all a lead in to asking you ... yet again ... what is the question you've recently asked me which I did not answer? If you cannot point out such a question, you should probably not say that I won't answer your questions.
Richard,
Your tone in text came across as outraged a little more than amused, but alright. No big deal.
The Planning Commission hearing is coming up again and their new (delayed) hearings have taken the process off track. If the meetings progress at this rate, then we'll likely miss the stimulus fund deadlines and PZ residents will not be seeing any considerable amount of savings, given the technology that the County wants to work with.
We're in a Catch 22 and the people outside of the process are no longer responsible for this problem.
I disagree. The people outside of the process is what has caused this slowdown. The Planning Commission will take the time it needs to take, or you Aaron, and getreal, M, and a host of others will be screaming process foul. The PC, urged by Surfrider and Sierra Club, took an inordinately long amount of time to nit-pick step to come to the same conclusions the County did, that step was not viable. That was done because of the huge protests by the step side. Remember the hours of public comment alone, most protesting gravity?
There is a Catch 22 alright, but those wishing for step were the same bunch crying the process was too hurried and the stimulus money was bogus anyway.
Contrary to what one may think, the people outside of the process have no sway in County decisions.
As Richard LeGros can tell you, it wasn't the PC's job to determine which technology is more suitable for the project. It was -- and should have been -- about approving the CDP. The PC unnecessarily opened the floor for protest. I'm not saying that the protests were uncalled for, but it was not the proper forum to protest.
It was the BOS decision to go with gravity and the PC should have not felt the obligation to micromanage. They could have said to Surfrider and Sierra Club, "I would like you to discuss your concerns with the BOS, who made the decision on April 7th to eliminate STEP/STEG from the design-build process."
It's absurd to place so much blame on the people for any delays in the County process when the County allowed people to protest.
If you think the people's First Amendment right to protest is causing delays, you might as well move to North Korea or Iran. That belief does not belong in Los Osos or in our country.
Gravity vs Step/Steg
It has been said by the EPA that trillions of gallons of raw sewage spills into America's coastal bays and waterways annualy.
Some have calculated that it's enough to keep Niagara Falls roaring for eighteen days.
The source of the spills are identified to be failed Gravity Wastewater Systems.
Then it should follow that gravity type sewage plants are the number one point source of nitrate contamination and polutiuon in America.
To install a gravity system in Los Osos would the supreme, intrusive, wasteful and most expensive excercise in futility of the century.
Why was Step/Steg backhanded off the table? Why the moratoria on due process, as promised?
Give us a break, just show us the numbers and delete the phoney buzzwords.
Hi Aaron,
All perceived 'tone' aside, we basically agree that the process has failed.
The County's current policy to achieve consensus in Los Osos by appeasing to the factions that insists the WWTP be out of town (rejecting Tri-W out-of-hand); while simultaneously adopting gravity collection to appease other factions; has failed.
The causalities resulting from this mayhem is the loss of the once-in-lifetime chance to get Federal grant funding, a DOA project plan (EIR), all factions expressing frustration and suspicion of the County, the County drawing the ire of the CCC, the USF&W, their own staff and commissions, and topped off by the fact that the RWQCB will see no significant progress made to bring Los Osos into compliance with the law. You can add to that list that the County’s timetable for starting construction has been (optimistically) pushed off from 2010 to late 2013; which is over two years past the RWQCB time order schedule of January 2011. The RWQCB will not be amused.
Understand that I fully support the County process as their process is the only hope for Los Osos to realize a project. The County tried in earnest to solve a sticky political problem; and should be commended for the attempt. However, as in any business periodically you have to review the policies adopted; and if the policies are achieving positive results. The County policies are definitely NOT achieving positive results. I have no doubt that the County, as they review and alter their policies; will drastically alter the course and components of the project.
The County now understands that using tracts of Ag land for a WWTP location and disposal is contrary to the Coastal Act and their own LCP. Altering the project from Secondary treatment to Tertiary treatment (requiring far less land required) will result in the WWTP and disposal being placed entirely within the URL of Los Osos. By doing so the County will avoid extremely expensive project mitigation costs, time-consuming landowner lawsuits, ‘sandbagging’ of the project with new conditions (by various regulatory agencies) in order to address the loss of Ag land, and most importantly save TIME to get a project to construction.
-R
Steve,
On page 15 of the "rough" report the disadvantages of vacuum are not anywhere near those of con-gravity.
Show me the data (cut and paste the language from the report in the "rough" report) that supports the conclusion that gravity is better and why.
Prove that you actually read the report, son.
Unless and until you do that you won’t understand why I ask:
“Why wasn’t vacuum studied?”
Steve,
On page 15 of the "rough" report the disadvantages of vacuum are not anywhere near those of con-gravity.
Show me the data (cut and paste the language from the report in the "rough" report) that supports the conclusion that gravity is better and why.
Prove that you actually read the report, son.
Unless and until you do that you won’t understand why I ask:
“Why wasn’t vacuum studied?”
Shark. What question did I ask you? How did I get included in this?
Sincerely, M
I do have a question though, Can anybody tell me what the County's response has been when asked the question of how they allowed another 1,000 septic tanks to be permitted after 8313? I'm sure this has been asked and answered numerous times, but my memory isn't what it used to be.
Sincerely, M
Steve wrote: And if I were you, I would not suggest you make such a big deal out of what you perceive to be another's poor choice of words.
Lynette wrote: "Deceitful, Disputable, Unbelievable, Unhelpful and Shameful,"= "sorry, I forgot his last name"...
Lynette wrote: "Deceitful, Disputable, Unbelievable, Unhelpful and Shameful," -&- "sorry, I forgot his last name"...
Sorry Lynette,
I wanted to keep my record straight.
Phoenix is not in over draft.
Richard wrote: Understand that I fully support the County process as their process is the only hope for Los Osos to realize a project.
The best?
What about the Army Corps of Engineers?
It is said that "When rape is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it."
Here you all are trying to argue the decisions of elected officials or the opinions of experts who when you do not agree, you label as "corrupt" or "liars".
There will be a Los Osos sewer. Those in the prohibition zone will pay for it, more and more each day, including the renters who are 1/3 of the population. $500 a month ( or close to it ) is a lot of money.
Where will you live next?
Jon Arcuni,
You once said to me outside of a CSD meeting in 2006 (held at Sunnyside), "I couldn't give a shit about anyone else but me. The PZ residents deserve what's coming to them."
Now, you say, "It is said that, 'When rape is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it.'"
Sounds like you speak from experience. Is that why you ran away from Los Osos?
Any system that is not maintained will fail. Given that step only came into being - what was it - 25 years ago? -- it is no surprise that it is not in the news for failure. It hasn't been around long enough nor has it penetrated the market much.
The gravity pipes for Los Osos will not be clay or iron but modern materials. To compare what we will get to old systems is no comparison and makes a very weak argument against gravity.
If that is really you Spectator - welcome back!
Aaron says:
"Contrary to what one may think, the people outside of the process have no sway in County decisions."
Maybe it wasn't that - it is actually that step is wrong for Los Osos. Most people not wanting it made the decision a little easier.
People need to stop making absolute statements, "Gravity is right for Los Osos," "STEP/STEG is wrong for Los Osos," because that goes beyond an opinion to a point where that opinion is forced onto the masses -- and that's wrong.
Also, I think the rape analogy was really uncalled for, but let's ignore that. Right. "If that's really you Spectator - welcome back!"
Steve Rein (Shark):
I've asked you many questions that you always avoid. You always spend your time putting down Mark or Ron.
I've never asked why Paavo said this or that. That's ridiculous.
I've asked why do you think the County never had the State or Federal step up to the plate to pay their share of benefit on the 218.
I've asked why the County would be looking at their preferred project at Tonini when the RWQCB didn't even like or want the Step pipes going out of town because of odors and leaks, but now it's okay for raw sewerage? Why would the County waste the money?
I've asked why the County didn't consider ponds.
I've asked about the SRF loans requiring a "sustainable" project or why the Financial Capability Analysis wasn't done!
But you have read this and answered with statements like, "you voted for the recall" etc.
Stupid stuff Shark. Is this how you act at home?...or with your students? You are very irritating and foolish.
Lynette,
How in the world can you think YOU know more than Rob Miller regarding Step (or ponds for that matter)??!!
You are an engineer now? You know more than engineers?
Wow, you are off your rocker...
Jon,
When I look around Los Osos, I see in an instant who will be forced out.
I also see that Van Burden and Starlings and the lot will cash in big time, as will people in construction (like you) and then the rest of the "food chain".
That's the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans only care about themselves and a good Democrat cares about people.
There are no studies to say we are polluting. But there are PLENTY of studies and expert opinions saying that we aren't polluting.
It is fraud and a conspiracy. The whole thing is a sick hoax to make some rich, and many other suffer greatly. I do wonder how you people live with yourselves.
The County could have chosen ponds and Vacuum. That would have pleased both sides (including realtors) it would be a good compromise and it would have been cost effective. But, no, it has to be MWH for kick backs.
You people are determined to destroy Los Osos. Wow.
70 acres of ag land (some prime) taken out of production permanently in THIS county for sewer ponds? I don't think so.
"forced onto the masses????" Did the vote against step not count because the voters were not -- masses? What would you call the majority? People maybe?
Lynette,
You make no sense. Again, you think you know more than Rob Miller.
Why don't you speak with him rather than getting your lines from Paavo.
GRO...are you really as stupid as you sound...???? You do have choices... if you worry so much today about losing your home, (or some infant?) then pack your plastic bags and push your shopping cart on down the road... too bad you weren't asking the post recall folks how you were going to make mortgage payments and a $500 per month sewer bill...
You're no engineer, nor are you a lawyer or politician,not even a snakeoil salesperson, just another wantabe sewer obstructionist... but you are stressing yourself into a stroke... Maybe you'll be lucky enough to have a plot overlooking the County's sewer farm... Q&F, Q&F GRO.... Q&F
Mark,
You believe vacuum to be better. Fine. It would seem that the County disagreed with you. It is not my job to show you a document which proves vacuum to be worse. Those of you who advocate vacuum should be doing the job of proving it to be better.
No worries, though ... I can see why you might have been confused about your role in this discussion.
M,
Apologies for thinking you had in the past accused me of not answering questions you had asked. It must have been someone else.
GetReal,
On the State/Fed 218 thing ... I know of no such thing that you refer to. I know that you've said something similar in the past but I've always found it confusing ... what Federal properties are in the PZ and deserving of an assessment vote?
I don't believe you asked me why the County went for Tonini, but now that you have raised the issue, I think it is because of two reasons ... the County wanted to appease those in Los Osos who wanted "out of town no matter how much it costs" and because of the proximity to spray fields where the treated effluent could be disposed of easily.
Why the County didn't consider ponds? Again, it is not a question that I remember you ever asking of me ... even so, I don't know that they didn't, but I do know that the SWRCB/RWQCB have essentially said that they won't support a ponding project with SRF funds unless because of no proven record of denitrification.
As for a "sustainable" project ... again, not a question that I know you to have asked of me earlier but, as Ann herself has said, the word sustainable is very squishy and if the process of technology selection is thorough, they won't likely ding us just because another treatment technology might be viewed as less energy intensive. This is especially true of situations when the lower energy technologies don't have a proven track record of denitrification, one of the main reasons we're needing a sewer according to the RWQCB.
I don't know that the date of a financial analysis makes that much difference because we're under a mandate to build the thing whether it is only moderately unaffordable or whether it is horribly unaffordable. Such an analysis might be necessary for approval, but doing the study now or later won't be a big deal. Certainly it will impact nothing. Again, not a question which you had asked of me before.
I don't understand your last two comments (in the 6:43pm comment). They don't make much sense.
Certainly you might find me irritating when I point out that if we hadn't voted for the recall we would already have a treatment plant online and it would cost a whole lot less than what we're projected to pay (across all four of: monthly, assessment, bankruptcy and the design costs for TriW). I'm sorry that the truth bothers you. As for at home versus in the classroom versus here ... are you a fully functioning adult in a grown-up conversation? If so, don't let small irritations like my not answering questions (that you never really asked of me) bother you.
As for you claim that Rob Miller says that he prefers STEP, I don't believe you. I believe he was commenting on the issue of whether he would want his street dug up one way or the other way. STEP is less inconvenient during the pipe installation but it might be far more inconvenient in other ways.
GetReal,
Apologies if I missed you directing a question to me earlier ... but I've tried to answer these issues you've raised here. Even so, most of these are issues where you can't seriously expect me to know the answer or even ones where you do.
Mike,
There you go again.
Never said I was an engineer, but I do listen to them.
You can't comprehend what I'm saying. I'm not so worried about me. I'm worried about half the town being forced out -- and for what -- a hoax so a few can cash in --
You wish me a stroke for that?
What kind of person are you?!
No offense, GetReal, but one thing you are saying makes no sense. The folks you are saying want people to have to move out of town are exactly those who wanted TriW which had an even lower cost than what we're gonna be facing. If their nefarious goal were to force people out of town, don't you think they would have supported the recall, something that they said would cost us more money than even TriW?
Shark,
You ask, "what Federal properties are in the PZ and deserving of an assessment vote?.."
It's a federal bay they claim we're polluting and that the sewer would clean. Governmental agencies are not exempt when they benefit. Same with "state" water. I'm not pulling this out of my ass either. Many attorneys have brought this issue up.
As far as ponds, Rob Miller did Templeton ponds. Same County. He likes ponds and is doing a couple right now. Look how much less that would cost and would handle the sludge issue too. Creating wetlands could achieve grant money too. A traditional plant with operators etc. will not be cost effective and/or sustainable compared to ponds.
Please don't tell me that the County would do anything to appease any move the sewer crowd. They've spent millions knowing that the RWQCB didn't like it then with Step pipes.
Again, you talk about Tri-W, but again, I argue that there was no vote for that project. The bankruptcy judge said the loan was unsecured. The state could not issue the second installment of the SRF loan because of that little fact. Tri-W couldn't happen because of that little fact. You really can't go there with your argument about Tri-W being cheaper. Tri-W was not meant to be because the State Water Board and the recalled CSD didn't follow the law.
That's the truth, and you're the one who can't accept it.
Besides, Rob Miller does like ponds and would prefer them. He like ponds. Vacuum would work for him too. Why don't you talk to him??
Besides, it's last few minutes of the Laker Game. Good nite.
P.S. You comment above makes no sense. The cost of Tri-W could have easily been $250 to $300 or more a month. There was no cap on price. Gravity is expensive, the most expensive, digs will slow things down and be costly, and cost over-runs always happen. The plan has always been to clear the riff-raff and cash in on their properties. Period.
GRO... I don't believe you listen... well maybe "selectively", that is you listen to only what you want to hear... Your stupid questions and idiotic statements show that you don't know what the hell your bitching about...!!!!!!!
I'm tired of fools like you trying to play God and tell me and any one you disagree with how badly you think the County is doing... It's about time you quit listening to the ones who caused the bankruptcy and loss of the project... They lied to you about having some Plan and you believed them... and now you're complaining about the increasing cost...???? Hell, you're so stupid that you don't realize that you are a big part of the reason for the increasing costs...!!!! By now, Los Osos should have had a working sewer and you could be finding somethng else to cry about....!!!!
So when you ask stupid questions like what kind of person I am, just know I won't be placing any flowers on your plot... Q&F...!!!!
Re TriW plant location
Someone mentioned that our County officials rejected the TriW location "out of hand".
Well, the cards held in ones hand by a player at any given time simply needed to be aligned properly.
County officials merely aligned them properly because they didn't fit with "srongly held community values".
GetReal,
I think I understand what you are saying ... that because the Feds and State would "benefit" from cleaner water, they should help pay.
I think the problem here is with the word "benefit" in the context of the assessment ... I believe that the benefit isn't defined in terms of clean water but in terms of being attached to a sewer. The sewer is the benefit that all those using get to pay for. If there is a Federal or State facility inside the PZ attached to the sewer, they get to pay.
Think about it this way ... if right now you are polluting illegally, you have the responsibility to stop that. Those inside the PZ are asked to pay for a sewer for this reason.
As far as ponds ... they make lots of sense for us if they do denitrification and if we can still get a loan for construction. Oh yeah ... no and no.
As for Miller, I'll ask him next time I see him if he thinks that STEP or vacuum would be better for Los Osos than gravity and I'll ask him if he thinks that ponding (how many acres would that be? how much would that cost?) would be the best choice for our town.
As for the TriW cost ... it was to be $205/month and, once additional homes were added it would have been lower. Even if you are right that there was no guarantee on the price, those who voted for the recall now have not cap on the price either and it will be even more. Please don't forget that the bankruptcy costs plus the $20M in TriW-related costs which still need to be paid. In short, we're gonna pay more ... probably lots and lots more.
The upshot is this ... you have a different point of view than I do. You seem to be more likely than I to hope that there is a solution that will really save us money and I think that spending time looking for the "best deal" is actually a great way to lose because the inflation will more than wipe out any savings possibly achieved. You also seem to want to point out all the problems with TriW while I want to point out all the problems with the recall.
Steve,
I see why you are still so ignorant about what has actually been studied by Paavo's consulting engineer.
Why wasn't Vacuum Collection studied?
Why is this question is so difficult?
Steve and "sorry, I forgot his last name Lynette:
Given you both dodge simple questions I thought this simple story would help illustrate your mental deficiency to a "T".
"No offense to House Speaker Pelosi."
A noted psychiatrist was a guest speaker at an academic function where Nancy Pelosi happened to appear. Ms Pelosi took the opportunity to schmooze the good doctor a bit and asked him a question with which he was most at ease.
'Would you mind telling me, Doctor,' she asked, 'how you detect a mental deficiency in somebody who appears completely normal?'
'Nothing is easier,' he replied. 'You ask a simple question which anyone should answer with no trouble. If the person hesitates, that puts you on the track.'
'What sort of question?' asked Pelosi.
Well, you might ask, 'Captain Cook made three trips around the world and died during one of them. Which one?''
Pelosi thought a moment, and then said with a nervous laugh, 'You wouldn't happen to have another example would you? I must confess I don't know much about history.'
Jon Arcuni implied above that the PZ residents should be raped (and enjoy it) and Lynette condones that statement. What a great gal!
Mark,
Why do you think that you should get to set the tone of a discussion, that you should be able to avoid any question you would like to avoid but that you get to demand others answer your questions?
Second, why would you feel it is ever okay to be so rude? Have you felt that I've insulted you and so now you feel it is justified to strike back in anger? My kids do that and I always have to tell them "even if your brother is 100% in the wrong, you still need to make the choice to do the right thing yourself." In short Mark, if I've said something that you felt was insulting or unnecessarily critical, I apologize ... but even if I did, you seem to have a lot of anger directed towards me. Either that or you just plain don't mind being rude.
My choice to ignore some of your irrelevant and pestering questions is not a dodge but a choice not to waste my time.
Thanks for trying :)
Aaron, just because someone logs on as Spectator does not mean it is Jon. As for rape - c'mon, your've taking this a little too seriously. Have you not heard of journalistic license? Seems like "5,000 people being forced to move out of town" might fall into that pocket.
Aaron,
While I cringed myself at Jon's words when reported here, you know darn well he did not imply that PZ residents should be raped and that 'Toons was only welcoming Jon back to the discussion.
That choice to paint each of them in the worst light was 100% out of line.
Aaron, just because someone logs on as Spectator does not mean it is Jon.Try clicking on Spectator's name like I did. The results may surprise you.
Shark, I have to draw the line there. If Lynette wants to be taken seriously, she needs to actively set limits and not simply ignore these kinds of comments, especially made by a friend of hers. She ought to say, "You know what? We don't have to go there," It makes me sick to my stomach that people get away with making those kinds of statements in our community.
I know it's the blog, I get it. Not everyone reads Calhoun's Cannon, but come on people, get a grip. I've seen many comments like that one and quite a few of you have made them, and I can't help but to shake my head in disgust. Most of these comments are left unchallenged because these people are your friends, but if God forbid I said something akin to that, you would want my head to be served on a silver platter.
Stop being a bunch of hypocrites and grow up.
Shark,
Again, you ignore what I said.
The Tri-W was dead because your friends (recalled CSD) didn't want to follow the law and have a 218 vote.
The State Water Board would not release a second installment.
So, please forget about your arguments about Tri-W was cheaper.
The Bankruptcy Judge said the same -- it was an unsecured loan!!
Tri-W was DOA.
Please stop defending Tri-W.
Also, as far as the State & Feds paying. Again, you ignore the fact that lawyers bring this up.
Are you a lawyer like Lynette is an engineer?!?
Not being a deep thinker, when I read Spectator's rape comment I didn't think much about it. But now after reading Aaron's comments I realize he is right. I think back of numerous instances where somebody's life has been altered by that very statement. Not in a good way. Nothing good can come from bringing rape into the conversation.
So let's look at what I would consider one faction, or side of this sewer group.
1. Richard LeGros-recalled director with a considerable history in this project, lives outside of the Prohibition Zone yet is still involved in this. And proclaimed he has "f****** balls in a public meeting.
2.Sewertoons-moved here in 2005 and begins to lecture on the poor decisions we have made. Blogs daily about gravity and even leaves posts at three o'clock in the morning. Oh yea, and dumps on the dead before their even in the ground.
3. Mike- the engineer, works in a lawyers office, property appraisor, and who knows what all else Mike Has done. Actually reffered to as "she" one time by one of his/her legions one time. Wishes a Quick and Final to one who he/she disagrees with, while posting on a blog topic of someone elses death.
4.SharkInlet-Another alleged non-Prohibition Zone resident blogging daily about the sewer and pushing the mistake of stopping Tri-W. By the way, thank you for the apology.
5.Spectator- tells us in the Prohibition Zone to lay back and enjoy the the reaming we are about to take. Sorry, no can do. As a matter of fact i'm thinking of telling you to go f yourself. But i'm too much of a gentleman to do that.
Sincerely, M
Steve,
You didn’t read the rough report and can’t cut and paste any co-equal “language”.
You have been hit in this round of dodge ball.
Sound of referee’s whistle…………………………… It is time for you to sit down, son.
On another note:
I heard House Speaker Pelosi doesn't want to use stimulus money to reactivate Alcatraz to house the Guantanamo dodge ball losers.
Is Speaker Pelosi a NIMBY who doesn't want to create jobs in her district?
That is troubling. Maybe it will make sense when those EIT hearings get started and she is called to testify.
More information is always better that less.
A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers.
Plato
And now back to the discussion that is going to cost you and yours:
Why wasn’t Vacuum Collection studied by Paavo’s consulting engineer?
GetRealOsos,
I believe Steve is willfully ignorant.
He may need a trip to "Detention"
More information is always better than less.
A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers.
Plato
-sorry, I forgot his last name, Lynette wrote: As for rape - c'mon, your've taking this a little too seriously. Have you not heard of journalistic license?
Aaron,
MIKE and Lynette like to "make things up/lie perhaps they like to cheat as well.
Things that make you think: hmmm?
Aaron, think back over some of the things you have said in public meetings... You have been as nasty as anyone in hurling your verbal attacks on the pre-recall directors... How soon you forget those CSD meetings and the scripted personal venous "comments"... No Aaron, you are not the perfect individual you would like to now make others think you are... You've grown quite a bit, but you aren't a saint yet...
There are still a few in this community who are fighting any or every sewer idea presented... and they still have never apologised for the huge, expensive delays in constructing a waste water treatment system... they still hurl their insults and threats... You are very naivete if you think Lisa, Julie, Chuck, Ann, Gail, Piper, Al, Kieth, and your parents aren't still cursing the past Directors... They are still so blind in their rage that they can not see the destruction they caused and are still causing... They never accepted the fact that the Tri-W site and system was 100% legal and permitted inspite of all their protests... They never produced an alternative, but did successfully lie their way into postion to stop that project... and then gleefully held a party and hired their personal attorneys to begin the rapid descent to bankruptcy...
Aaron, there are still those of us who witnessed the nastiness and the lies, who are sick of seeing the democratic process perverted by those who delayed the project. Lecture us about your right to free speech, but understand that WE also have that same right of free speech. We are sepping up to say we don't like your crusade to create delays just create the most expensive sewer on earth... Maybe you don't get it, but we don't like the endless search and deliberate misdirections for the most perfect system on earth... We just want to get moving forward...
I'd like to take back my last comment about spectator. I apologize. Net very dignified of myself.
Sincerely, M
GRO
YOU WROTE: "The Tri-W was dead because your friends (recalled CSD) didn't want to follow the law and have a 218 vote."
RESPONSE: Wrong!
The recalled board followed the law to the letter. As many times you say that a 218 vote was required when the SRF loan was secured, you are just plain wrong.
The SRF loan was secured and to be repaid via rates to be collected by folks connected to and using the WWTP.
This method of securing a State loan is the very same method that the CSD is TODAY using to repay the I BANK loan for the recently completed water system upgrades.
YOU WROTE "The State Water Board would not release a second installment."
RESPONSE: Correct!
The State did not pay the second installment because the CSD5defaulted on the SRF loan when the CSD5 stopped the project without prior State approval as per the CSD/State construction contract.
YOU WROTE:” So, please forget about your arguments about Tri-W was cheaper."
RESPONSE: LOL, amazing wrong!
The County staffs cost projections for the County project is $50 MORE per month ($250) than Tri-W monthly cost ($200); PLUS homeowner connection costs; PLUS the cost of stopping Tri-W ($30,000,000); PLUS the $22 per month you are already paying on the 2002 Bond Assessment.
YOU WROTE:” The Bankruptcy Judge said the same -- it was an unsecured loan!!"
RESPONSE: Wrong!
The judge said that the State had to get in line with the other creditors to recover the $6,500,000they had paid to the LOCSD prior to the CSD5 defaulting on the SRF loan.
The judge also said that the loan was secured via the RATES to be collected, not by the hard assets of the LOCSD; hence her saying the previous comment.
YOU WROTE:"Tri-W was DOA."
RESPONSE: LOL, how can you serious say this? The Tri-W project was completely vented publicly at local and State levels, reviewed by qualified professionals, State agencies and independent professional review groups guaranteeing the viability of the system, funded, and all permits issues after intensive review. IT WAS UNDER CONSTRUCTION.
This, GRO, is not a DOA project; the project was summarily executed by incompetents.
GRO, your endless repetition of incorrect information does not make your comments true. The fact that you continue to repeat incorrect information does little to your enhance your credibility.
-R
I would like to apologize, in advance, for any discomfort my "journalistic license" may have caused.
My point is to prove to those that this discussion isn't serious, that it is.
Lynette, if you lied about Mr. Dean "sorry, I forgot his last name" representing a technology, what else are you lying about?
Before everyone gets "sidetracked" into trying to defend the indefensible, ask yourselves: why cost saving technology isn't being studied by Paavo's consulting engineer?
It is insulting that this question goes unanswered.
That unanswered question should be paramount in this discussion.
The rest will fade away and the price of not answering that question will remain and must be paid.
Those who choose to continue to dodge answering a simple question like Steve who thinks his rhetorical comments address the real issues that confront the citizens are not helping themselves or anyone else.
Let’s try to stay focused on what is actually happening.
It is important to engage in questioning Paavo’s consulting engineer’s handling of technology review?
Not being able to get answers the questions would be silly and stupid or less
Richard: "It" isn't funny, you old goat...
I'm not perfect, never said I was. I have made some vitriolic comments toward the pre-recall board, true, but as I've said previously on this blog, on my blog, and to members of the pre-called board, I regret making those comments.
Accountability for your own actions is key.
I'm definitely not a saint, believe me but my concerns about people's presentations is valid.
Richard,
You speak of credibility?!
Weren't you on the Bankruptcy committee but YOU leaked out confidential info, and got kicked off the committee?! (replaced by Gordon)
I heard that the Bankruptcy Judge said the contractors should be fighting with the state to recoup money. And that the loan was unsecured.
I believe my sources rather than you. You talk about rates as opposed to a vote, but you can not charge rates for a sewer that doesn't exist yet Richard.
Of course you have to say everything was legal. I don't believe that a 218 wasn't required by law.
Why don't you answer how the bankruptcy debt will be collected? A 218? Just the PZ?
My point is to prove to those that who think this discussion isn't serious, that it is.
Richard,
You were removed from ofiice.
Why are you still campaining?
PreFixed:
Please show us (cut and paste) the language that supports your contention that vacuum was studied co-equally with con-gravity.
GRO... You seem to ONLY push some great conspiracy... over and over and over... I have the flag of the United States of America flying proudly this weekend... assuming you even have a flag, is it for Iraq or North Korea...????
Q&F you quack... Q&F....!!!!!
My point is to prove to those who think this discussion isn't serious, that it is.
MIKE:
Take it easy buddy, the veins in your neck are showing.
You would be better off cutting out that quacking and fibbing and think about the questions that matter.
You never did address whether or not your friends and relatives know what municipality they actually live in.
Much less address the simple question about how Paavo's consulting engineer's handling of the study of technologies.
That first is funny the latter is not...
All Quacking and Fibbing aside, did you ever hoof up with Lyneete for that drink?
Some typos I can live with...
Aaron you are right about challenging inappropriate statements ... but as to Jon's insensitive remarks, you've got to admit that it is a commonly used phrase. It is probably because I've heard it so often that I didn't see the need to say anything.
Even so, I still think that you're criticism of those two was too forceful because they did not mean by those words what you say they did and I believe you know that. Your willingness to put an interpretation in their mouth is just about as bad if not worse than choosing an offensive phrase to use or to welcome back to the discussion an old friend.
Gentrification in Los Osos?
Will the upcoming 500%(+-) increase of utility bills in the PZ zone drive out long-term poor residents and small mom & pop neighborhood businesses in favor of higher-income newcomers?
Can the rent-gap be mitigated with rent control?
Will developers and realators benefit by aquiring cheap property
and inflating their value by inducing higher-income tenants to pay for them?
Some posit that gentrification has two sides to it, a positive and a negative.
Given the state of the economy today and the job famine, it couldn't happen at a worse time for the poor folk in town. No doubt that won't change much for several more years.
Many of these individuals will no doubt find that their rent and utility bills will rise above a level that they can afford and are thus forced out. Where can they go and find affordable housing on the Central Coast? The negative effects are far reaching.
One has to be a bit calloused to justify something positive about gentrification of poor folk.
There is a theory that over time property values in these areas will rise and generate higher tax revenues for local government. Seemingly, that is a positive for SLO County.
GetReal,
Pretty clearly your understanding of what is fact and what is not is waaaay different than mine. No worries ...
Even so, I am troubled that when I did answer your questions (perhaps not giving the answers you wanted) you said that I didn't address your issues and then you threw out a whole new set of issues. I am starting to think that no matter what I say, you wouldn't really be happy unless I were to do a 100% change of mind and adopt your viewpoint.
And if that is the case, why not try to convince me of what you want me to believe instead of trying to criticize me for not participating in a discussion with you the way you want?
Mark,
In response to your most recent comments to me (which were pretty much not a response to what I wrote to you directly), why are you insisting on calling me "Steve" instead of my chosen moniker? In the past I've asked you to do so and said that I would prefer it. Why are you choosing to be rude?
Do you find that being rude helps you in other situations?
Did someone treat you rudely when you were a child and now you feel the need to treat others rudely just so that you feel you have some sense of control?
GRO
YOU WROTE:"
You speak of credibility?!
Weren't you on the Bankruptcy committee but YOU leaked out confidential info, and got kicked off the committee?! (replaced by Gordon)
I heard that the Bankruptcy Judge said the contractors should be fighting with the state to recoup money. And that the loan was unsecured.
I believe my sources rather than you. You talk about rates as opposed to a vote, but you can not charge rates for a sewer that doesn't exist yet Richard.
Of course you have to say everything was legal. I don't believe that a 218 wasn't required by law.
Why don't you answer how the bankruptcy debt will be collected? A 218? Just the PZ?
RESPONSE:
First, I never, ever leaked anything from the creditor's committee. Did not happen. I do not know who did.
Second, I resigned from the committee (I was not 'kicked off'). I resigned for I was sick and tired of the stupid games being played by the CSD5 and the attornies. Additionally, I resigned as it became painfully obvious that the bankruptcy would take many years to resolve.
Third, You 'heard' something?
So what.
I WAS THERE when the judge spoke. Whoever told you what you 'heard' is wrong or have very selective 'hearing'.
Fourth, the LAW was followed to the letter as to setting user rates as a source of funding to repay the SRF loan. That fact is undeniable as it is a matter of law.
The fact that you will not acknowledge that the CSD is TODAY using the very method you say is illegal; ie relying on user rates to repay a $5,500,000 I Bank loan; just underscores how wrong you are.
Fourth, the Bankruptcy repayment of the $30,000,000 in damages to the creditors will eventually be paid by the entire community of Los Osos, of which 85% are the folks in the PZ. It is up to the CSD to come up with the repayment plan. If the judge does not deny the Bankruptcy first, then that plan is years away. If the Bankrupcy is denied by the courst, then the creditors will sue the LOCSD for all it's assets.
-R
Steve,
I'm happy to see you are on the bench.
A "time out" in your case is a good thing, son.
But why not address the core issue, Steve?
To Aaron: Your statement that I said to you that I have only been out for myself is an outlandish lie. I have never said that to ANYBODY. And yes I am Jon Arcuni. And yes I moved out of Los Osos to Panama but still own property there in the PZ zone. I have always been concerned with the increased costs that I would have to pass on to my renters.
I am stuck just as badly as everyone else. But not you, if you are the ultra liberal Aaron married to the liberal former Judge in Cabrillo Estates. Send a letter to your hero, Obama, and see if he bails Los Osos out.
Thank You Jon....!!!!
To Aaron Ochs:
My apology to the ultra liberal lawyer and judge in Cabrillo. I just read your profile and have never met you in my life or spoken to you.
Aaron means "light bearer", do so.
Mark,
I am saddened that yet again you pass up the opportunity to either apologize or to at least address some of the key things I've been writing to you of late.
As for addressing the core issues in Los Osos ... um ... I have been. It is you who has been pretty much off topic. Nice try :)
Lastly ... and this is for Aaron who enjoys a good replay ...
Mary, you didn’t read the Phoenix AMA aquifer health report and can’t cut and paste any “language” showing the City of Phoenix is not in overdraft. Heck that very report shows the water table changes over the last five years ... surely someone who really knows what is going on ... surely someone who isn't just acting in the know but with no real knowledge ... could point out the veracity of his claims.
But Mark doesn't appear to be that person.
At the very same time you criticize 'Toons for a lack of credibility, you refuse to address your own total lack of credibility and integrity. The pot telling the kettle to take the splinter out of her eye should probably realize that he's got a log in his own black eye.
Jon,
I'm disappointed that you chose to not tell the truth.
Let me jog your memory.
I met Jon Arcuni at an LOCSD meeting in July 2006. It was a special meeting that included suggestions of revisions for AB2701. That meeting, I delivered a speech that invoked Reagan. I said, "Tear down that wall!" in reference to the chain-link fence that surrounded Tri-W.
After the speech, I exchanged a few words with Arcuni behind the Sunnyside School auditorium and he made that statement to me. The statement was so obscene, it was easy to remember.
Following that, I read many statements you've made as 4CrapKiller, which were just as vulgar and divisive as the statements you made to me. Lynette Tornatzky condoned those statements as sewertoons of the course of two years before you left Calhoun's Cannon and vowed never to return.
Shark, that's the part you missed.
Now you return a few years later and say, "When rape is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it." That analogy clearly shows contempt toward members of the community. To even come back on here and have your first post invoke that analogy on top of all the other things you've said is simply reprehensible.
Not even to my adversaries would I ever say that they should "lay back and take it" when they're getting raped. I've also heard that analogy before, but it's a very vulgar analogy, especially when it's applied to thousands of homeowners who will be facing a great dilemma that no homeowner should ever face.
If you're going to treat the people of Los Osos poorly, get lost.
Shark... You're still trying to be logical with the snakeoil salesman (although he's never sold a waste water system or even a wrecklamator)... Like Crawford, he doesn't let facts influence his perception of the world around him...
Gee Aaron, your sainthood is slipping out of sight... You have been a nasty little shit and now you come back and "apologize"...??? but then castigate Jon...??? maybe you should look up hypocrite...
A couple of months ago, I met with Richard LeGros. He didn't put it exactly the way you put it, but he reminded me that I said some pretty hurtful things back in 2005.
I told Pandora to step down even though she was no longer a member of the LOCSD, I said the pre-recalled board was "villainous," shady, and corrupt. I ended one speech by saying to Stan Gustafson, "You are now dishonorably discharged," and on the day before Memorial Day, I fully understand how degrading that comment was to a former Vietnam War vet.
However, everyone on Calhoun's Cannon has made some very heated comments in one way or another, especially you, wishing people to have strokes and death. You know, that whole Q&F thing.
Because of this whole sewer mess, many people have had strokes, some people have died, relationships have been shattered, people have divorced. No matter what side you're on, people have experienced a lot of pain and sorrow over this issue and I think it's highly inappropriate to go beyond disagreement to invoke means of bodily harm and violence.
Even in my early speeches, I have never once implied or wished bodily harm or violence to anyone, period. There is no double standard here.
Jon needs to be held accountable. Someone has to do it.
Aaron - did anyone else condone whatever it was Jon said (please cut and paste this in an email to me as I no longer can recall what was said), was I alone, or are you just picking me out special because… because why? It just makes you look like you have it in for me and I'm sure you don't mean to sound that way.
You young man are NOT God and are NOT even mature enough to decide just who needs to be held accountable... If you were, would you also hold the CSD5 accountable for the illegal misappropriation of taxpayrs funds...??? Would you hold Julie accountable for her various affairs and leaving her family...??? What yardstick would you use for deciding who to hold accountable...???
BTW...I don't wish a stroke on anyone, but if someone is so worked up as to create one in themself, then so be it...just make it quick and final so that those left behind don't have to pay for heroic efforts to maintain a miserable vegitable... If you want to work yourself up and have a stroke over a sewer that you don't want, then have at it, I sure won't miss you....
GRO says:
"You can not charge rates for a sewer that doesn't exist yet…"
Gee! So THAT'S why that loan didn't get paid back! But then, if it HAD been built, we'd start to be paying it back right about now I believe.
Mike,
I never said I was God. I wouldn't make that great of a God either. On the seventh day, I would just throw my arms in the air, say, "Forget it," and build an amusement park.
You say I'm not God but you expect me to take into account and hold people accountable for everything. That doesn't make much sense, but that's alright. I forgive you for that and your sins.
"Bus needs a hundred"
-The Who-Magic Bus, I want it, I want it, I want, -You can't have!
Why wasn't Vacuum Collection studied by Paavo "If there is a technology that is significantly less expensice..." Ogren's consulting engineer?
History 101-
He who does not forbid a crime while he may, sanctions it.
MIKE: You must be dizzy, you old goat.
Aaron sez;"Let me jog your memory.
I met Jon Arcuni at an LOCSD meeting in July 2006. It was a special meeting that included suggestions of revisions for AB2701. That meeting, I delivered a speech that invoked Reagan. I said, "Tear down that wall!" in reference to the chain-link fence that surrounded Tri-W.
After the speech, I exchanged a few words with Arcuni behind the Sunnyside School auditorium and he made that statement to me. The statement was so obscene, it was easy to remember.
Following that, I read many statements you've made as 4CrapKiller, which were just as vulgar and divisive as the statements you made to me. Lynette Tornatzky condoned those statements as sewertoons of the course of two years before you left Calhoun's Cannon and vowed never to return.
Shark, that's the part you missed.
Now you return a few years later and say, "When rape is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it." That analogy clearly shows contempt toward members of the community. To even come back on here and have your first post invoke that analogy on top of all the other things you've said is simply reprehensible."
Awww, Jon, say it ain't so. Say you weren't "4Crapkiller." Awww, plllueeeze say it ain't so. Crapkiller's "voice," - that soul-deep voice that comes through everyone's remarks,no matter how "anonymous," -- was Ugly On A Stick. And he/she was asked to leave despite Inlet's pleas to the contrary. Now we have a "Jon" posting with the rape remark? Aw, Jon, say that ain't you. Then there's Richard LeGros laughing out loud (LOL) while speculating on sewer costs going up to $500 a month, [particularly weird considering his unnecessary start-the-destruction-of-the-Tri-W site vote before the recall election helped cause a huge amount of financial destruction (again, unnecessary),and people wishing Q&F deaths on other people. . . .
And then there's the famous story (confirmed in public and on the record by Mr. Hunter) of the "Get Rid Of The Riff-Raff" guy. All of which makes me wonder: Hmmmm, were all these people separated at birth? I mean, if there's one thing these "voices" have in common is that they are too often ugly to the bone. Yikes.
Today is not a day to recount the little boy comments, but to remember of family and friends who have given their lives to protect the freedoms we enjoy... I've served and I've lost good friends to a war we never understood... I salute all of you...
Ann,
Your statement that I am gleefully callous about the cost of the WWTP to my neighbors is insulting, arrogant, unjust and a complete lie.
In reality, I am very saddened and concerned by the hardship that will face my neighbors; including you and yours.
-R
Churadogs
I agree with your view about "Crapkiller".
On the former Tribune blog he/she came accross as blatently caustic/acerbic/satiric.
A lot of servicemen and women died to protect this country and our way of life. A lot of men and women fought to protect our freedom and keep us safe so that people like Mike can call people "nasty little shits" freely.
Truth is, I'm more of a man than Mike. I don't stoop to calling names, throwing around insults and wishing "Q&F" strokes on people. I leave that up to you, Mike, who acts like the only little boy in this room.
Richard
An old man, a boy and a donkey were going to town. The boy rode on the donkey & the old man walked.
As they went along they passed some people who remarked it was a shame the old man was walking and the boy was riding.
The man and boy thought maybe the critics were right, so they changed positions.
Then, later, they passed some people who remarked, "what a shame, he makes the boy walk".
So, they decided they'd both walk!
Soon they passed some more people who thought they were both stupid to walk when they had a decent donkey they could ride.
So, they both rode the donkey.
Now they passed some people who shamed them by saying how awful to put such a load on a poor donkey.
The man & boy then figured they were probably right, so they decided to carry the donkey.
As they crossed the bridge, they lost their grip on the animal and he fell into the river & drowned!
The moral of the story?
If you try to please everyone, you might as well kiss your **ss goodby!
...but it wasn't your sorry ass crawling through mud and your buddy's blood...was it sonny...??? Go back and hide behind your mommy and daddy... You don't understand freedom...
Have another drink and enjoy Memorial Day, Mike.
...maybe later I'll toast one to some real friends... In the meantime, open your mind... you still have much to learn of those who lead this community into this division and bankruptcy, all because they had no respect for themselves... They still don't...!!!
Mike, was it really you that was crawling through the mud and your buddy's blood? Cause that would be a pretty sick act to claim that and then not have done it. Having been there, I know.
Sincerely, M
Mike
It's 5:00 pm 2009 on the West Coast on Memorial Day and past time to lighten-up.
To lighten- up,I would suggest a few double Grey Goose dirty martinis' straight up with two fat olives.
The French gaurantee this to handle attitude adjustment problems.
Jake Gittes: How much are you worth?
Noah Cross: I have no idea. How much do you want?
Jake Gittes: I just wanna know what you're worth. More than 10 million?
Noah Cross: Oh my, yes!
Jake Gittes: Why are you doing it? How much better can you eat? What could you buy that you can't already afford?
Noah Cross: The future, Mr. Gitts! The future. Now, where's the girl? I want the only daughter I've got left. As you found out, Evelyn was lost to me a long time ago.
Jake Gittes: Who do you blame for that? Her?
Noah Cross: I don't blame myself. You see, Mr. Gitts, most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place, they're capable of
ANYTHING.
Jake Gittes: You're dumber than you think I think you are.
Bhaaaa...
Why was vacuum collection never studied???
Richard sez:"Ann,
Your statement that I am gleefully callous about the cost of the WWTP to my neighbors is insulting, arrogant, unjust and a complete lie.
In reality, I am very saddened and concerned by the hardship that will face my neighbors; including you and yours."
-R"
Sad? Concerned? Really?
Richard replies:"LOL, R" and replies:"GRO,
LOL...I am laughing at you!
You do not want 'answers'...you want someone to blame for your own idiocy. You have made your decisions...so live with them!
LOL"
and replies:"Meanwhile, as you pay through the nose for standing by your 'beliefs', smile! knowing you got exactly what you voted for.
LOL, R"
[Uh, LOL-Richard, I don't think GRO voted for you to unnecessarily dig up Tri-W thereby pointlessly throwing away millions which he will have to repay, but then you likely find that LOL ]
Mark
Good link to "Chinatown".
I have a good 300 page book on the subject of the Owens Valley - Los Angeles water controversy. Its titled "Vision or Villainy "
The author is Abraham Hoffman.He teaches history at Los Angeles Valley College, Van Nuys, Ca.
Certainly a propos to our Los Osos fecal matter subject..
I quote the first chapter of the Preface;
Following the release of the motion picture Chinatown in 1974, a high-ranking official in the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (DWP) attended a dinner party where he became embroiled in an argument concerning the film's historical accuracy. "It's all wrong," complained the official; "it's totally inacurate." The other person then asked the official to be specific. Exactly which facts were incorrect? the DWP official emphatically replied, "There was never any incest involved."
Water is not a new problem for California. It was July 29, 1905 when the Los Angeles Times broke faith with the other Los Angeles newspapers and released the story about bringing water to LA from Inyo County.
In order to prevent land speculators from inflating the price of needed Owens Valliey properties, all the papers had agreed to keep the plan a secret. Of course the Times jumping the gun didn't set well with William Randolf Hearst, the young jouranlism magnate at the time, who started the Examiner.
The book is a good read, if you like history. The American Historical Review stated "...history at it's best: well researched, well organized, impartial, and well written...Hoffman has done justice to a great story."
Uh ... Ann ...
The district voted for Richard (and the other pre-recall directors) overwhelmingly and in our system of representative government, we got what we voted for ... just like when they voted for the recall ... we got what we voted for (although only by a small margin).
Just because you don't like the outcome of an election or the actions taken by officials duly elected doesn't mean that as a community we didn't both ask for a midtown sewer and then kick out of office those who went about the business of doing what we asked them to do.
Steve Rein: You're dumber than you think I think you are.
Why wasn't vacuum collection studied, Steve?
Why isn't vacuum collection being studied, son?
Is it because it is water tight and less expensive?
Ann,
Are you just going to continue to be indignant while and playing the 'shame and blame game' as Los Osos's life blood is let?
The only thing I find 'amusing' (i.e. LOL) are folks that continue to fitfully whine over the current dilemma when they themselves got exactly what they voted for....and refuse to acknowledge the fact either.
Meanwhile, that they (and you) will have to pay so much is not funny...but very saddening.
Is it not better at this time to focus on figuring out a way to keep the WWTP costs to a minimum so that as many folks as possible can meet their responsibilities AND stay in Los Osos?
-R
Richard,
Why wasn't/isn't vacuum collection being studied.
It is water tight and less expensive.
You "say" you are interested in keeping the costs down, but you are not addressing the reasons why they are NEEDLESSLY being escalated.
Which means you are a Judas goat in sheep's clothing...Bhaaaa
Are you certain that your Doctor released you for duty?
Why wasn't/isn't vacuum collection being studied?
Hey Richard,
Here is Mike Price's number 925.627.4500 over at MWH.
Why don't you give him a jingle and ask him why vacuum collection wasn't/isn't being studied?
As far as the treatment plant itself, well everyone knows how much less expensive an EOfluid USBF(tm) design would cost to build and operate.
You know, the design that you believe has 30 foot high clarifiers...
Oh, it also produces membrane tertiary water by gravity. Not by the costly (highest cost ever) and intensive energy method of membrane you and your crew came up with.
If everyone who believes gravity is best, shouldn't they be interested in studying it?
Does cost and energy consumption really matter to you or are you just whining, again/still?
Okay, who let the idiot use the computer?
Fogswamp ... sounds like a good book. Thanks for the tip! I read Cadillac Desert some time back (maybe 20 years ago) and found it very interesting, especially the part on LA and the Owens Valley ... now my "short list" is now maybe 20 books long.
Richard,
I'm going to apologize in advance for my assessment of your comments.
On the blogs, you do come across as someone who is more cynical than concerned about others in Los Osos. Maybe you have a very complex personality and I'm only seeing one facet of a raw diamond. Maybe you are withholding emotion from the discussion. I don't know.
Why so sarcastic Steve?
Another interesting read is RIVERS IN THE DESERT William Mulholland and the Inventing of Los Angeles by Margaret Leslie Davis, if you like biographies.
Sarcastic? What makes you think I was being sarcastic?
Why wasn't/isn't vacuum collection studied?
Bhaaaa. It isn't all about you son. Bhaaaa.
Let's try to stay focused and try not to get stuckm on stupid.
Lynette,
Please tell us about "sorry, I forgot his last name".
Ann... you said "Uh, LOL-Richard, I don't think GRO voted for you to unnecessarily dig up Tri-W thereby pointlessly throwing away millions which he will have to repay, but then you likely find that LOL"
GRO has his vote / opinion and I have mine... How do you kow that Tri-W was dug up "unnecessarily"...??? If the recall had not barely squeaked through, we would have a fully permitted sewer by now...
As far as poor GRO having to repay millions pointlessly thrown away... I would point out the GRO isn't the only one going to "repay".... If the CSD had not halted the project and pointlessly thrown millions to their sole sourced lawyers, we would have had a working sewer and a low interst loan by now...
...and thanks to the generous gits that the CSD5 gave to their lawyers and to the PZLDF, WE all get to pay and repay the millions pissed away by the CSD5...
GRO, be sure to thank Gail and Lisa for being such wonderful community "leaders"... afterall, YOU get to pay for their folly and ax grinding and eat crow at the same time....
Shark Inlet
I haven't read the Cadillac Desert Series of books. But they sound interesting and a must have for me.
The PBS web site has a good summary of all four;
1. Mulholland's Dream
2. An American Nile
3. The Mercy of Nature
4. Last Oasis
Thanks for mentioning it, now I can give my fiction reading obsession a rest and read some good history again.
Fogswamp,
There is one book, Cadillac Desert, by Marc Reisner. PBS took selected sections and turned them into a series. The show on Mulholland was was pretty good. The book is even better (and from me, a HUGE advocate of TV and film, that is high praise).
Poision Water Is something with a recent evaluation of how the USEPA has done and not done.
Actually the piece is titled "Poisoned Water.
Oh ... there is one other PBS show which touches on Mulholland ... in the Ken Burns series "the west" there is a chapter in one of the episodes entitled Take it which is about the same issue. Far shorter than the coverage given in either the book or PBS version of Cadillac Desert, but still worth a watch.
Oh yeah ... it's pretty funny to hear a conservative or libertarian promoting a PBS show about how the (republican led) USEPA has failed us. Thanks for the laugh, Mark!
Still stuck on stupid Steve. Bhaaaa.
My name is Alon Perlman and I live in the "Lost Oasis"
Here is a documentry which explains among other things why the "Pheonix Area" may not be in overdraft-Like the "LA Area" It poseses the historical water rights and upriver towns like Prescott have to let the water they need, run through. "pheonix area" has water sufficiency "at the expense of the rest of the state". Members of the Navajo Nation now have to haul water and get by on 10 gallons a day. Just like a third world country.
UCtv; The American Southwest: Are We Running Dry?
To keep o discussion here about "water" even more tightly focused:
Young women suffer gang rape daily at the hands of teenaged soldiers to obtain their drinking water in outlying regions of Conga, Africa.
Post a Comment