Calhouns Can(n)ons

Thursday, May 28, 2009

Planning Commission Today

The Planning Commission will again take up the Los Osos Wastewater plan today. It's scheduled last on the agenda so will likely get underway in the afternoon. The meeting is held in the BOS chambers in SLOTOWN.

Message To California Residents

Front page of the Tribune: "Castle may close under proposal; Governor wants to shut down 80 percent of state parks, including Hearst, as part of a plan to close the $21 billion budget deficit."

O.K. Californians, listen up. You elected and re-elected more and more polarized Pols , some of whom have taken blood oaths to people like Grover Norquist, so it's pointless to think they will come together to balance a budget based on judicious cutting AND judicious taxing, so they're worse than useless. But you kept electing them anyway.

Then, you keep voting for initiatives that are loaded with unintended consequences that futher bolix up any attempt at governing the state. (Prop 13 is a perfect example). THEN you keep demanding all kinds of services but keep wanting THE OTHER GUY to pay for them. And when it all goes to hell and you have a chance to step in and vote for a temporary fix, you say, Pfffsstfffft, so now the Pols are threatening to cut services to the bone -- a move that will have the harshest impact on the poor, the young, the old. (No taxes on yachts!)

So, here's the deal: If the Pols shut down vital services, services you rely on but don't want to fairly pay for, I DON'T WANT TO HEAR A PEEP OUT OF ANY OF YOU! Not a sqwak, not a whine. Zip it. Did your husband die because there weren't enough EMTs available to come help him? Too bad. Not enough firefighters to keep a hillside blaze from turning into a maelstrom that engulfed your home? Don't call me. Did uninsured sick people put such a strain on your local emergency room that it's now closed down, bankrupt, and you've been injured in a car accident and you end up permanently crippled because there was no emergency room nearby and not enough EMTs to take you there in time anyway, Hey, talk to the hand. Did you car fall into a pothole because the county didn't have enough money to fix it and now your car's kaput? Awww, poor baby. Too bad. No state parks to go to for an affordable vacation? Tough. You want a state park? Go buy one and pay for it yourself.

After all, Who needs the State, anyway? No taxes! No Services! It's Grover Norquist Country! You want a service, go buy it from a private provider. If you can't afford it, too bad. You'll just have to suck it up or die. If you're poor, nobody cares about you anyway. Now shut up and go away.

Californians! Behold! This is the state you have created. Rejoice! Thank you.

33 comments:

Anonymous said...: Ann,

You make good points! But you did not address the grossly overpaid public employees, representatives, staff of same, appointees of the governor, etc. How about the mandated participation of union labor (prevailing wage) in/on state and local government projects.

Well, perhaps if we cut back on police and firemen salaries, rather than cutting numbers, and these workers decided to quit, maybe their jobs could be filled by workers from Alabama etc.

And the legislature keeps pushing mandated projects that cost big money on the electorate.

I still can't really understand the absolute necessity of building a Los Osos sewer system. Nobody is dying from polluted water.

I quess that when you vote for fools in office, you get foolish ideas.

In the meantime I have never read a worse whiner than Ann Calhoun who is a big part of the whole problem with a totally unrealistic liberal socialistic viewpoint.; 8:47 AM, May 28, 2009
Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...: REPOST from 1:34 PM, May 24, 2009

Jon,

I'm disappointed that you chose to not tell the truth.

Let me jog your memory.

I met Jon Arcuni at an LOCSD meeting in July 2006. It was a special meeting that included suggestions of revisions for AB2701. That meeting, I delivered a speech that invoked Reagan. I said, "Tear down that wall!" in reference to the chain-link fence that surrounded Tri-W.

After the speech, I exchanged a few words with Arcuni behind the Sunnyside School auditorium and he made that statement to me. The statement was so obscene, it was easy to remember.

Following that, I read many statements you've made as 4CrapKiller, which were just as vulgar and divisive as the statements you made to me. Lynette Tornatzky condoned those statements as sewertoons of the course of two years before you left Calhoun's Cannon and vowed never to return.

Shark, that's the part you missed.

Now you return a few years later and say, "When rape is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it." That analogy clearly shows contempt toward members of the community. To even come back on here and have your first post invoke that analogy on top of all the other things you've said is simply reprehensible.

Not even to my adversaries would I ever say that they should "lay back and take it" when they're getting raped. I've also heard that analogy before, but it's a very vulgar analogy, especially when it's applied to thousands of homeowners who will be facing a great dilemma that no homeowner should ever face.

If you're going to treat the people of Los Osos poorly, get lost.; 10:12 AM, May 28, 2009
Shark Inlet said...: Spectator,

Perhaps because you live in Panama and don't have a copy of the budget in front of you you don't know, but even if the "grossly overpaid public employees" were all fired ... all fired ... the budget could still not be balanced.

The problem is the revenue stream for California has plunged because we rely far more on income and sales taxes (and far less on property taxes) than other states. That causes a boom and bust revenue stream. On the other hand the federally mandated and populace mandated spending changes more predictably and always goes up.

Fire ever single prison guard, close down all prisons ... same with all colleges and universities and the state budget is still in the red.

It is not that we voted fools into office (which is perhaps partially true) but that we hamstrung our legislature and governor and put them in a corner where there is no possible solution.

In short, you sound like my idealistic Republican friend who just talks about "waste and inefficiency" in the government but has never really bothered trying to understand the problem by looking into where the money comes from and where it goes.

If Ann's socialist viewpoint is the problem please elaborate on how a proper conservative would balance the budget. It cannot be done.; 10:29 AM, May 28, 2009
Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...: At the rate the Planning Commission hearings are going, it'll be the Planning Commission needing that time extension from the Water Board in 2011, not the County.; 5:52 PM, May 28, 2009
Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...: The Planning Commission meeting was extraordinarily long. A lot of people were repetitive in public comment and it gave me one whopping headache -- so please, even though the PC is giving you the opportunity to speak, please be short and talk about something you haven't talked about a hundred times before.

Where's the aspirin?; 7:09 PM, May 28, 2009
Shark Inlet said...: Aaron,

When Judge Goldin spoke at the board of Supervisors and was ruled out of order ... were her comments "new material" or were they things which had already been voiced before a hundred times?

I wasn't there but am trying to form an opinion about whether her actions or those of the Chair were unreasonable. Your observations would be much appreciated.; 7:27 PM, May 28, 2009
Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...: Apologies to Joan Didion, but some of that repetitiveness was from people who seem to be experiencing their own "year of magical thinking" that step/steg or vacuum will somehow reappear and prevail over gravity.; 10:27 PM, May 28, 2009
Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11:21 PM, May 28, 2009
Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...: Shark,

On your question of whether her comments were "new material," it's a yes and a no. The new material was the discussion of due process and the fairness of the process. The old material -- that people discussed previously before her -- was how the the process has been "grossly subverted" and tainted due to Mr. Ogren's involvement with MWH.

I like Goldin because she approaches even the most repetitive subject matter with a clarity that not a lot of people have -- so in a way, she provides a unique perspective. A lot of people stop at, "I don't support the County process. Everyone is corrupt!" but she goes the extra distance to explain why and still be concise enough to be understood.

Arguing STEP vs. Gravity at the Planning Commission hearings is pointless. It's NOT the real forum to vent that frustration.; 11:31 PM, May 28, 2009
Anonymous said...: Aaron,

I have never attended any meeting at the Sunnyside school. You lie.

Shark:

If prop 13 was not in effect, old folks could not live in California on small income. This is exactly the problem with the potential costs of the Los Osos sewer system, and NOBODY talks about drinking water treatment in the future or state water.

I have friends in New Jersey who recently sold a house and six acres for 800,000. They were previousely appraised at $960,000 and were paying 29 grand per year in property taxes. They originally purchased the property for $350,000 15 years ago.

There are many countries that have NO property taxes. Thailand comes to mind.

The problem is excess spending and high cost of government, much of which could be eliminated.

We should take a hard look at the Republic of Ireland system. Seems like the common folk are doing well, and happy. I am common folk and doing real well in Panama.; 4:45 PM, May 29, 2009
GetRealOsos said...: Jon,

I saw you at Sunnyside.

You lie.

On top of that, I heard you are a wife abuser, a heavy drinker and slumlord.

Now you say for the PZ while getting raped to sit back and enjoy it. BTW, they are getting raped and will for 30 years.

You are a nice representative of Taxpayers Watch.

Perfect!; 6:16 PM, May 29, 2009
Unknown said...: GRO.... you really should "relax and enjoy it"... you will probably be the very first....!!!!!

....Relax? Hell, you'll probably enjoy your stroke....!!!

...and since you are such a sweetheart, remember we've all "heard" you are a "self abuser"... don't hurt yourself or you'll go blind and not be able to entertain us on this blog....; 6:38 PM, May 29, 2009
Shark Inlet said...: Spectator,

I agree with you about the good that Prop 13 has done ... but it was written in a way where property taxes have become a decreasing portion of the state revenue stream ... even with increasing property values, we are relying more on sales and income taxes than is healthy. A three legged stool isn't gonna stand if one leg is only half the length of the other two.

Please remember that I am not suggesting that Prop 13 be done away with but just that it be adjusted. Something like allowing for 2% increase per year in the taxable value and perhaps 2% of the sales price being the base would be a move in the right direction. In short, to simply say "no changes in Prop 13 ever" is a huge part of the problem.

As for Thailand and Ireland and Panama, you should realize that they are quite unlike the state of California because ... the State must follow federal mandates and I don't believe that these countries have ballot propositions on how their national budgets must be spent.

Furthermore, the State of California budget must balance ... I don't know that these other countries have this requirement.

Frankly, the requirement that the budget must balance, along with a highly variable revenue stream is a recipe for disaster ... whether in business or government, such a problem as we have necessitates huge borrowing and/or huge cuts during the bust years ... and this bust year is the worst I've seen in decades. We cannot borrow our way out of this one ... at least in part because we're still paying interest on borrowing during the 1990s downturn and the downturn of 2001.

I would point out that you have not offered an explanation of how a conservative (or anyone) could balance the state budget.

Let me remind you ... that the party which holds a slim majority in just over 1/3 of the legislative districts has, in the last eight or more budget cycles, chosen not to raise income or sales taxes as would be appropriate when the cost of providing governmental services is going up.

No offense, but your answer is pretty much the same as "well, just cut waste and inefficiency" and is 100% out-of-touch with the reality of our situation.

The upshot? The sooner we revise Prop 13 to make it more reasonable, the sooner California can dig her way out of this mess.; 8:20 PM, May 29, 2009
alabamasue said...: Shark-
Don't we already have that 2% increase in property taxes per year? I bought my house in 1986, and the taxes have increased over the years, whether it was from school bonds, drainage funds (hah! long gone now. I pity my neighbors) or the 218 vote. We will all pay more now, but is that the answer? When you raise taxes for a specific cause, who benefits?; 9:33 PM, May 29, 2009
Unknown said...: Per Prop 13, Property Values are allowed to rise up to 2% per year... Taxes are set at 1% of the Property Value...

This works quite well in years where the Market Values are increaseing...

Prop8 was created to allow the Property Tax to mirror the Decline in Value in a declining market like we're in today...

Prop 13 is not perfect, but it protects those who don't sell every couple of years... There are a great many other problems beside Prop 13... how about the Lottery, why are our schools having such a difficult time when the Lottery was going to give them so much...??? We should look at all the welfare giveaways... why should taxes be given to reward irresponsible women for having a bunch of kids and continue to pay for those same kids because they don't have a father(s) around... Why is the State funding stem cell research when this should be done at the Federal level...??? The California Budget... why are we paying a bunch of politicians who can't put aside special interests and party lines...???

No Shark, I don't agree with you on this one... Prop 13 is not the problem... The problem is too many unfunded mandates because the legistlatures are not being realistic when setting up those giveaway programs with no revenue stream to support the programs...

We as a society seem to have developed the attitude that somehow everyone born in this world, especially the USA and most especially in California, needs some form of government assistance... If we didn't have the giveaways, we wouldn't need to raise more and more taxes.... The Budget would increase as more people bought goods and services (shouldn't need to raise the sales tax if more items are purchased), or if more people were employed to make those goods and services (income tax should mirror but not exceed actual Gross Income...maybe a flat tax over all income, interest or profit without deductions for anything), you see, we don't need a welfare state that incourages and rewards irresponsibility... That's probably too difficult to understand in liberal Los Osos... Oh well, I'm close to taking my Social Security (been paying into it since I was 12 and throwing newspapers for the Telegram Tribune)... Have a nice day... I need to go kayak....; 7:08 AM, May 30, 2009
Shark Inlet said...: Thanks Mike for the clarification ... I had thought that the numbers were 1.5% and 1.5%.

From an economist's point of view, Prop 13 keeps people in homes that don't match their needs because of the huge disincentive of higher taxes.

I won't say that Prop 13 is wrong in every way, but certainly we must admit that California used to be like most states in the nation where property taxes were a sizable portion of the revenue stream and now we are one of the states with the lowest proportion of our revenues coming from property taxes.

As for the unfunded mandates ... and those giveaway programs ... those are thinks like prisons, education, emergency healthcare for indigent people, roads and parks. Mike, can you identify even $5B (only 1/4 of the current problem) in unreasonable giveaway programs?

If you are suggesting that there be a special "healthcare for poor people" tax, who would you have pay it? How? Right now such a law would fail in the legislature because republicans would oppose it even if it were necessary and the voters would oppose it because they're in a "no" mood.

You are right about special interests, but in this state, the big divide between Rs and Ds is only about taxes ... Rs always say "no" and Ds always say increased taxes is better than cutting services which they say are essential. (That definition is really one in the eye of the beholder, but K-12 education would be in that category, but what about school nurses or music programs?)

So we have a problem where Rs (who are about 60% of the folks in about 40% of the districts) have legislators who are, on average, far more conservative than the voters in their district dictating tax policy for the state.

Simply put, there is no way to stop cost increases in healthcare (unless, perhaps, the feds take over), but we're not willing to increase taxes to cover these costs ... so, of course, close parks and cut salaries of state employees and close schools and don't forget to borrow money to cover the remaining deficit!

You say that the costs are going up too quickly but have not suggested a reasonable way of controlling those costs ... and unless there is a reasonable way of controlling costs, more taxes must happen and prop 13 and the Republican minority are preventing that.

I lay the blame at the feet of the Republican party. They are the group who is choosing to close parks and schools and to take other actions which are longterm unwise but shortterm necessary which is anything but conservative.

What should I think about this conservative party which is making very nonconservative choices? They are no longer conservative and in favor of longterm sound practices (see the recent David Brooks piece but are now in favor of selfish shortterm gain.

Rephrased: Not enough Stan Gustafssons and far too many Watershed Marks.

And you don't even want to get me started on your Stem Cell and Social Security Comments!

All the best...; 9:52 AM, May 30, 2009
Unknown said...: Good Morning my friend...

You're sure correct about "Not enough Stan Gustafssons and far too many Watershed Marks"...

I don't have any answers about the state of our welfare state, but what would a "reasonable" tax level be...??? As a nation, we have created how many ways of taxing...??? ...and just as many special interest exemptions... So just what level of our income (from ALL sources) should be taxed...??? Aren't we somewhere around 35% to 45% between Income, Property, Excise, Sales and a host of hidden taxes... How much tax was already paid in the production of our goods and services...???

Taxes are a huge portion of our income... More than most people realize... Are we receiving an equitable return for all those dollars...???

Does our several levels of government need to be so large...??? Do we need to provide assistance to everyone, not just those incapable of working...??? Just because some irresponsible woman has 5 or 6 kids, each by a different father, does society need to care for her and those children...??? If there was no welfare for those women, would they continue to produce children that they can't feed, clothe or educate...??? There is no easy answer, but aren't we trying too hard to protect those who only "play the system" because we're too soft to say "No"...???

I'd love to take on healthcare and the legal system that creates the tremendous costs... again, are we too soft to say "No"...??? Cut off the sue happy lawyers and cost would come down in many area's, including the infamous Los Osos Sewer...

Oh well, it's now warm enough to get out on the water and away from solving all the problems... BTW, I don't agree with the USA trying to be the World's cops...; 11:02 AM, May 30, 2009
Anonymous said...: Thanks Mike for answering some Shark's points. Shark, you really need to look at the excess salaries and spending on public employees, especially the pension costs.

It would be nice if we could trust our representatives in California to be practical and fiscally responsible. BOTH PARTIES. However, the democrats have had control of the legislature for years, so you should lay the problem at their feet.

The sooner we make our legislators more reasonable the sooner California can dig its way out of this mess.

And as far as making a $5 Billion dollar dent in excess spending, let us stop educating illegal immigrant children and providing for their health care.

Panama and Mexico do not cater to illegal immigrants. You cannot work in Panama unless you are a citizen or have a special permit from the government. Panama jails are nasty, and we are under the Napoleonic code.; 11:24 AM, May 30, 2009
Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...: Jon wrote, "I have never attended any meeting at the Sunnyside school. You lie."

Jon, you are the one who is not telling the truth. I have spoken to witnesses that can attest to you attending.

I mean, after all that you've said as 4CrapKiller on the old SanLuisObispo.com discussion boards, you have the guff to say that I'm lying? Please. I think the challenge for you is that you need to bend over backwards to restore any credibility. The discussion boards have been removed a while back so people won't be able to see for themselves how nasty of an individual you were -- and still are, apparently.

Last night, I sat down and thought, "Wow, Taxpayers Watch has some really bad representatives." I'm going to soften my stance and say that not all Taxpayers Watch members are like this, but some of the most vocal representatives are. These vocal people, who proudly represent what they call the "silent majority," are breaking the case instead of making it in public view.

I think it's unwise to allow these vocal proponents of Taxpayers Watch to make the case. The people who ought to be in charge of educating the public should be the ones at the very top such as Richard LeGros and Gordon Hensley, who -- while I don't necessarily agree with their views -- provide cogent arguments that should be taken into consideration.

We see people like Jon Arcuni, Joyce Albright, Lynette Tornatzky and Judith Reilly making these broad statements of County analysis (as if they are the only knowledgeable source in the world) while incorporating character assassinations that really do more harm than good. If you take a look at their statements as a whole, it shows a lot of ignorance and contempt towards other people.

When I've made this point in the past, people have said, "How about the CSD5? How about their supporters?" That's irrelevant compared to our current situation. Mike asks, "What about PZLDF?" It's not about PZLDF. The counter-retort from TW supporters has always been, "How can I take the accountability away from myself? Oh, I know! I'm going to put other people down and boost my Messiah Complex!"

Going to back to good ol' Jon here: I think he symbolizes my points entirely. 95 percent of what he has said as Spectator and 4CrapKiller (and Wonky1, perhaps) qualifies my statements.

So Jon, go back to Panama.; 11:44 AM, May 30, 2009
Shark Inlet said...: Good questions Mike ...

If you want to consider such taxing questions ... I will put on my economist hat (and I have a license to practice economics, so you know I'm right).

There are some services which are deemed worthwhile but could not be paid for by service fees. Schools and parks come to mind. Even those who don't utilize schools (maybe because they've already graduated) still benefit from having an educated society. A rising tide lifts all boats it has been said.

Other things that government sometimes provides can be funded, in part, by fees on the service. Camping in state parks and higher Ed come to mind.

If you want to suggest services which should be cut, go for it ... but until those cuts can be achieved (often by forcing changes at the federal level or by yet another ballot proposition to overturn an earlier proposition), we have the obligation to provide them.

As to the kanard of the irresponsible woman with 5 kids with different fathers because first off, she is a rare case in the welfare population and because the real costs here are prisons, healthcare and education. Which of those do you want to cut?

The best solution to healthcare costs being so high might be either socialized medicine or limiting the ability of MDs to run up all sorts of expensive tests and the fanciest most expensive drugs when something almost as good is 1/100th the price.

But then again, such changes in healthcare would be met with huge resistance from those few who have become accustomed to the best possible care, no cost is too high system.

Heck, my dad was recently describing how bad healthcare was in England when he recently visited and needed to something checked out and his example of how bad things were sounded a lot like what my family gets to deal with on a regular basis.

Nope, lots of these issues are complex and the way thing have been going recently, the state budget has been hammered far more than it should be and as a result there will be lots of shortterm necessary actions which are longterm bad policy because we cannot adjust our tax rates.; 12:32 PM, May 30, 2009
Shark Inlet said...: To Spectator ... if you would be willing to point out which salaries are excessive (meaning far higher than what one would get in the private sector for comparable work) and total those costs up, I'll bet you that it wouldn't cover even $2B, only 10% of the total mess now.

As to pension costs, unfortunately the state made a deal with their public employees and they can't reasonably go back on that deal ... it would be the equivalent of cutting social security to current recipients because they've become inconveniently expensive by living too long.

It is nice to blame the Democrats in California for the problems, but if you look at the history in the budget discussions for at least the last two decades, it is the Democrats who end up compromising far more than republicans ... as an example, we typically are getting services cut but during budget crunch times but we rarely have tax increases. Both parties need to compromise, you say, but the Republicans don't. Sounds like the problem should be laid at their feet, to me.

How to make the legislature more reasonable? Kill off term limits and develop a new system of redistricting that makes common sense. Because of term limits and the way the political boundaries are now drawn, few seats are ever up for grabs during the general election but during the primaries candidates in both parties tend to run towards their (more extreme) bases. Once in office, they need to keep their hard-line positions to get re-elected. Term limits don't allow a longterm assemblyman or senator to develop and therefore, both parties cannot easily bargain. Before term limits, people in both parties knew who they could trust on the other side to make a deal with. Things got done.

As for as $5B on illegals ... it would seem that this is a federal issue ... something that California cannot really control. Perhaps the state should sue the Feds for these costs plus the costs of imprisoning illegals that the feds refuse to deport.

Yes, there are good ideas out there, but to simply say "no new taxes" and to oppose any changes in Prop 13 is just plain asking for parks and schools to be closed due the other budget areas which are less flexible.

Nope, this conservative is in favor of doing the right thing by our state and, for a time, raising taxes so that way we can provide an educated citizenry and this conservative is in favor of revisiting Prop 13 to make it easier for the legislature to pass tax increases ... perhaps only a 60% majority necessary for a tax increase or to pass a budget ... and this conservative is in favor of paying people what they were promised by way of salaries and benefits.; 12:32 PM, May 30, 2009
Unknown said...: Aaron... I certainly did not gain any respect for you in your response to Jon... All you did was reinforce my thoughts that you really are a very immature kid with no real world experience...

Try reading YOUR latest comment slightly differently... and Aaron, I do remember those pre-recall CSD meetings and how those Directors were subjected to you and your vocal extremist views... You are doing nothing to cool the flames, it does seem you are still trying to pour gasoline on the flames of discontent....

How do you like your commentary with these changes:

"We (a handful of extremists) see people like Jon Arcuni, Joyce Albright, Lynette Tornatzky and Judith Reilly (or Lisa, Julie, Chuck, Al, Piper, Kieth and Aaron) making these broad statements of County analysis (as if they are the only knowledgeable source in the world) while incorporating character assassinations that really do more harm than good. If you take a look at their statements as a whole, it shows a lot of ignorance and contempt towards other people.

When I've made this point in the past, people have said, "How about the CSD5? How about their supporters?" That's irrelevant (oh really...???) compared to our current situation. Mike asks, "What about PZLDF?" (they have never paid for their agreement) It's not about PZLDF. (...is it about Gail McPherson's ax to grind...???) The counter-retort from TW (have you ever listened to Lisa...???) supporters has always been, "How can I take the accountability away from myself? Oh, I know! I'm going to put other people down and boost my Messiah Complex! (Aaron...you must have been at homewith warm milk and mommy to tuck you in...) again...have you ever listened to Lisa's blasting of the past Directors...??? She is one of the nastiest and most miserable people in Los Osos...!!!!!!!!!"

Going to back to good ol' Jon here: I think he symbolizes my points entirely. 95 percent of what he has said as Spectator and 4CrapKiller (and Wonky1, perhaps) qualifies my statements (...are you sure the Jon is Crapkiller...??? I'm not...

So Jon (Aaron), go back to Panama (Orange County).

"

Sorry Aaron, you are entirely one-sided and very immature...; 3:02 PM, May 30, 2009
Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...: Mike,

Most of your comments don't dignify a thorough reply.

I don't know you, but you think you know a lot about me -- and I appreciate the creative writing on your end. It's given me a lot of good chuckles for the past couple of years.

Lynette was the one who told me that 4CrapKiller was Jon Arcuni in a tone like, "Well, everyone knew that." It came as no shock to me that Jon Arcuni was 4CrapKiller given the extremely obscene responses that CK gave over the course of 2-3 years.

I've sat on the sidelines for a very long time, reading all the replies going back and forth. After digesting all of it, I thought, "Wow, these comments are really perverse," and to have that much hatred toward people with opposing views is disturbing especially in a community of only 15,000 people. It's not like a big city where fringe beliefs are more isolated. When you look at what is said at the CSD meetings and see what's posted on the blogs, it's frightening.

When I've brought this up, people say, "What about you?" Yeah, what about me? I'm one person. I've been here since 2005. Most of these obscene comments have been made anonymously and at the podium longer than I've been around. Clearly, this isn't something that I've started, but only when I call you out is when I'm called a "nasty little shit," and an "immature kid with no real world experience."

Let me tell you something about the real world. The real world is not on this blog. The real world is where we find the marketplace of ideas. I haven't seen you, Mike, bring any new ideas to the table except for wishing people "Q&F" strokes, death and dish out a bunch of insults -- none of which you can even take because you are who you say I am, "entirely one-sided and very immature."

And that's the bottom line.; 5:01 PM, May 30, 2009
Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...: Aaron,

Maybe that is best put - "And that's MY bottom line."

You are entitled to your bottom line, of course, but please don't define it to be mine or anyone else's.

Perhaps you can define what you meant by, "The real world is where we find the marketplace of ideas."

It appears to me that you are saying if an idea doesn't qualify with your version of what a correct idea "should" be, it doesn't belong in this discussion. If it isn't "new" it isn't valid.

Please tell me when we spoke about Jon Arcuni? I seem not to recall that conversation.

Since when is Judith Reilly TW? Never once saw her at a meeting or speaking on TW's behalf.

It might be interesting to see where all the "hate" originated. Ball off the tee by the No Sewer people, furthered along by lies about Tri-W (plus Pandora, Richard, Gordon, Stan - thanks a bunch Ron) and the fantasy cost of out-of-town at $100. Did that side bear culpability in duping the community, complete with character assassinations? Can I hear you call them out by name too? How about Margitson and Swanson? Kudos to them for their kind words?

Why so picky on who you pick on? Just curious.; 5:48 PM, May 30, 2009
Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...: Lynette,

Check your Sent file in your Gmail inbox and look at the third to last message you sent to me. You identified 4CK as Jon Arcuni. We had a conversation prior to your e-mails to me regarding STEP/STEG. I no longer have the correspondence prior to our last exchange.

If you deny that we ever have that conversation, I can safely say that today, on May 30, 2009, your credibility died.; 6:36 PM, May 30, 2009
Alon Perlman said...: "untill this State comes to terms whith its Prop 13, we wll not get out of this mess".
Nice interchange, Mike Jon Shark.

Alimentry my dear Aaron, Digestion is a very important part of the process. And yet, you left yourself wide open.
Digest. you know how. don't release bile unless you are digesting very fatty foods.
Oh, and the board of supervisors is where the marketplace of Ideas is located? Are people communicating to the commissioners? The Board of sups, their friends at home, their self image? the rest of the County, the next set of voters? Actually you are almost on track.
It really depresses me when you waste your talents.
Televizle, Chanel 20, 21 archived minutes, Newspapers, smaller publications. Pamplets, E-mails, word of mouth, Blogs.
How do people in Los Osos form their opinions?
Where do the Ideas originate?
Who owns them?
What is Grandstanding?
Where can I get me some?; 10:27 PM, May 30, 2009
Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...: Alon,

The marketplace of ideas will not be found -- or be contained -- at the Board of Supervisors because they've worked with Carollo and Wallace who have worked primarily with gravity collection systems. They've worked primarily with one kind of system with the same contractors.

County staff and engineers haven't gone up, over and beyond to answer the question, "Which system provides the most cost savings?" The alternatives were not vetted according to CEQA guidelines and County staff is aware of this, but they closed the door on that discussion -- and so has the Planning Commission.

The ideas come from people like Prof. George Tchobanoglous.

I suggest you read "Water Reuse," which is a textbook that was released in March 2007. In Chapter 13-5, page 807, there's some good reading about gravity collection including the whole thing about having a high installation cost and constant issues with non water-tight joints and damaged sections result in potentially high volumes of inflow and infiltration (exfiltration). Let's not forget the manholes.

The book also says that STEP/STEG systems have flexible plastic piping that is much less likely to leak and can be installed easily by directional drilling that results in minimal disturbance to property and roads," whereas with gravity, you have deep trenching and hence, deep excavations and significant road disruption when the County tries to fix a leak.

Then we have vacuum systems, which were a blip on the radar screen in terms of vetting compared to the analysis of LPCS (Low Pressure Collection Systems). That alternative did not even make it past the Rough Screening Report and there was no real explanation as far as why that wasn't studied.

Maybe you lost the CSD election, Alon, because you didn't have any ideas of your own. Receiving 10.96% of the vote, it shows that only 1,253 members of the community liked your resume, but didn't know your positions. Maybe you should work in refining your ideas before you try in vain to criticize mine.; 12:04 AM, May 31, 2009
Unknown said...: Apparently Aaron "believes" he has viable "ideas"... Too bad he is so immature that he has missed your points Alon... He certaintly doesn't understand politics of compromise when planning a major public works project... Just wait until he sees what's going to happen once the County attempts to buy some property...; 8:10 AM, May 31, 2009
Alon Perlman said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1:04 PM, May 31, 2009
Alon Perlman said...: Digestion. It is a long process in humans, takes about 8 hours in the least.
2 ½ hrs lapsed between my posting and your reaction.
Hardly enough time, to chew on rare choice beef,
tenderly marinated in late summer wine coaxed from the wizned berries of a south facing old coastal vine.
Relaxed former muscles tensing their last, arching lazily over a smoldering fire.
Roiling fog banks blanketing licks of flame dancing on a pygmy oak log.
Returning, retelling, exhaling in its last gentle hiss,
it’s history of carbon chains, laid down, linked, sequestered a thousand moons ago,
inside a silver-gray wood, that still remembers the faint scars of its first encounter
with the yet to be named California Grizzly Bear.
As I stated to you earlier Aaron, I do not use the blogs to demonstrate (your vision of) clarity in all my postings. It behooves me to layer my comments in this venue. Therefore, all the answers to your responses are already contained in the posting that elicited your response.

(Thank you Mark for that observation).
But Aaron, you did open a different can of Morro banded snails, thank you. Oh, to live in a world where political candidates are judged by their merits. Or by their blog postings. So I will revisit this.

I will then also explain how I taught our mutual African grandmother how to suck dinosaur eggs. I will also explain how it is possible that I laid that original egg. So, don’t hand me homework assignments on reading a book published in March 2007. Many of the people who voted for me did so because they heard me since 2004 expand on, add to (and independently originate) those same ideas you isolated, certainly there were many others here who talked on those issues long before.
Something old, something new,
something repeated, something shared,
something stolen, something borrowed,
and something that turns babies blue.
Meanwhile please review your postings, to me and to others. You are letting your debating skills get ahead of your wisdom. You may want to re-post to my earlier comments. I will avoid the temptation to respond to whatever you post in knee-jerk reaction to this. I will even avoid using my time machine to read what you are going to say, and respond to it right now.
P.S.
you will make a fine CSD director one day perhaps, if you can avoid falling into the clearly marked man-holes.; 1:22 PM, May 31, 2009
Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...: Aaron, I have record of sending you 2 messages on Sunday, April 12. One at 1:02pm and one at 4:54pm out of my G-mail account sent box. You sent me one at 3:14pm. No mention of Jon. That's all I have to you. Please post what you can to support your statement. Thanks.; 7:58 PM, May 31, 2009
Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...: I can confirm the e-mails at 1:02 and 4:54.

I wish I had the copy of the e-mail in question, which I remember seeing a few months before I had to reformat the partition on my hard drive.

Either you're not telling the truth or you deleted the e-mail before you could say, "Nope, no mention of Jon." Either way, it pains me to say this, but I can't trust you. This isn't a game.

You wonder why I'm bent on "picking on you" and then you do stuff like this. I can only throw my hands up in the air and acknowledge the fact that I am talking to people on the blogs and there's not much credibility found here.

Good night and good luck, Lynette.; 8:57 PM, May 31, 2009
Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...: Fine don't trust me, but I deleted no e-mails. What "stuff" have I done? I hadn't done THIS "stuff" before you picked on me anyway.

Suppose you had a memory lapse? If it came up in a conversation rather than an e-mail, I don't remember it, but it might have happened. I'm saying it is possible. I don't remember every conversation I have, no one does.

Here is some advice:
If this matters so much, keep your e-mails on the web. I do on all of my e-mail addresses. You can access your E's from anywhere. Yahoo and G-mail seem to have endless capacity.; 12:20 AM, June 01, 2009

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