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Wednesday, May 13, 2009

Oh, Thanks For Letting Me Know, Guys ...



Typical. Saturday I went to post some more entries only to find the blog page locked with a note that the page would be down for 10 minutes Sunday morning at 2 a.m. So, O.K. I figured Yahoo did't know how to tell time. When it was still locked at 6 a.m. Sunday morning, I contacted Greg, the Blog Master to see what was up. After much fooferawing, we figured out that Yahoo changed up the whole blog sign in routine, and forgot to tell their clients. Anyway, Greg got it straigtened out so, we're baaaccckkkk. Happily, the blog comment section worked so my dedicated Sewer Dawgs have been happily chewing on each other's ankles while I've been gone. Well, here's some new meat.



More Tea! More Tea!

Ah, a splendid day at the Regional Water Quality Control Board. The update on the Sewer brought out the Usual Suspects, but there was one inadvertent agenda item that was pure gravy for Los Osos residents who came early and were sitting in the audience.

I’m speaking, of course, of the City of Grover Beach being brought to heel and informed that they would be required to enroll that day in the SWMP (Stormwater Management Plan, pronounced “swamp,”) and so be brought under the direct control of our RWQCB staff, and under the Statewide General Permit.

Oddly, Grover Beach’s officials, backed up by testimony from Jerry Bunin of the Home Builder’s Association, were there to object, explain why they objected, and to plead for more time. It was beyond delicious and I could sense first disbelief followed by Cheshire Cat grins from all the Los Osos folks sitting in the audience.

Here’s some of what had Grover Beach’s officials panties in a bunch: The proposed program they were being “asked” to join was:

** Roger Brigg’s recommendations were seen overly restrictive and in some cases, difficult to achieve, the standards have and keep changing and GB wanted to look again at those requirements to see which worked and which didn’t work and were pleading for more time – 2 years instead of 1 – to make sure they were able to get this right.

** The plans required were too costly and often impracticable to implement

** Costs keep ramping up, regs keep ramping up, and so this is too great a burden financially on the city’s budget, which is near busted. Neither the City nor the people of Grover Beach can afford what’s being demanded.

** The SWMP program was seen as exceeding the Maximum Extent Practicable (MEP) rule and the city considers it all as an unfunded mandate.

** To which Jerry Bunin added, that the RWQCBs plan, which GB was being “asked” to sign on to that day, was that their requirements were contraindicated if GB was going to attempt to achieve “smart growth,” tended to make sprawl more likely, used data that was 6 years out of date instead of newer EPA regs (i.e. bad science.) and could end up making an o.k. situation worse instead of better.

Well, Briggs and the Board were having none of that. They weren’t about to brook hesitancy from these “anti-stormwater obstructionists!” No, no, they assured the reps from GB, who had by now made it perfectly clear they were leery as hell, not only of these regs and this program, but made it clear that their problem was with STAFF and that problem was that STAFF often made decisions that may not comply with the general rules or even directives from the Board itself. In other words, the officials from GB didn’t feel safe with what STAFF was doing and felt there was a disconnect between just who was in charge here: the Board or Briggs?

Ah, well, replied Mr. Briggs, with silence from the Board. No need to feel distrustful of OUR intentions, said he, with his bright teeth shining. We here in the SWAMP will require that you enroll today, but don’t worry, all the details you’re concerned about can be worked out . . . . later . . . . so just come lay yourselves down here on the bank of the great, grey greasy Limpopo River. Never mind the crocs. They’re here to . . . serve you.

And so it came to pass. The dear, sweet naifs from Grover Beach disappeared into the SWMP Enrollment while all the Los Osos residents sat there and smiled and smiled and smiled. . . . unaffordable . . . onerous . . . bad science . . . out of date . . . counterproductive of smart build . . .pointless requirements . . . unfunded mandates . . staff running amok . . .

Ah, deju vu time. And soon, for the poor dears in Grover Beach, it’ll be time for them to understand, WE’RE ALL LOS OSOS NOW.

Then it was on to the update of the Los Osos Wastewater Project and immediately the issue of Water raised its ugly head. (I know, hard to imagine, this being the Regional WATER QUALITY Control Board). What came to the fore were the issues of taking water out of the basin, rebalancing the basin, and sea water intrusion.

Most telling of all was Dr. Monica Hunter who noted that the basin water numbers were all over the map and what she wanted to know was a simple question that sent knee-jerk shudders up and down the line of her fellow Board members: There’s new studies that should be ready by June that will give newer (and hopefully better) numbers as to just what the water basin yields are. Since the County is under direct pressure by the RWQCB to brook NO DELAY, noted Dr. Hunter, (drolly? ironically?) would the Board see a way to send a letter or otherwise make it clear that the County should “delay” any final plans or RFPs or bids or designs UNTIL they had a chance to review the latest studies just in case those new water numbers might indicate a design change and so they’d be able to make those changes BEFORE moving ahead, instead of moving ahead and then, uh-oh, too late, too bad, finding out they could have done things a little differently with far greater/better results?

Delay? DELAY to get better data so as to ensure the project will actually work as planned, rather than just build whatever so as to not DELAY? Slow down . . . pause . . . delay even by a few weeks???? The shudder through the Board was palpable and sent, once again, the clear message: The majority of this Board STILL doesn’t “get it.” Burned into their brains is the Original Big Lie: That Los Osos is a bunch of urine swilling, anti-sewer obstructionists who must be punished and any project jammed through, even a bad one.

Clearly, despite a recap presentation yet again of the assessment vote, the survey results indicating strong community support for water reuse issues, as well as the public testimony of concern about the water, the Board still doesn’t get it. Dr. Hunter requests that this Board support making sure the County gets and uses the best ,most up to date science concerning WATER, even if it means a couple of months “delay,” and the Board shivers and recoils.

Ultimately, after some hemming and hawing, Project Director Paavo Ogren soothingly noted that it’s highly likely the June water reports will come in on time, the CEQA rules require it be evaluated and any project changes be done if the new information warrants it, and all that will take place before the County reports back to the RWQCB again. This let the Board off the hook. No need to take a stand or write a letter or take any action concerning WATER or SCIENCE or anything else, and if they do write a letter, it should simply just vaguely “encourage” the County to keep the June reports in mind and Mr. Briggs had no objection so long as the words “no significant delay” be added in, which would still give him the legal and procedural authority to call it and “fine Los Osos out of existence,” – ie. Prosecute all Los Osos homeowners immediately, since that’s the “trigger” for enforcing all the CAOs which are now already in place. (Most of Los Osos is blissfully unaware of this, of course.)

Then during public comment, Alon Pearlman once again asked a question he posed on this blog comment section: Who are the stewards for the water basin? That is a critical question since there appears to be so many partial stewards, each looking out for their own interests, it’s easy to see how the big picture – and the water – can slip away while nobody’s looking.

And then for some comic relief, CDO recipient Bev DeWitt Moylan asked for a simple accounting of the Board’s own Cease and Desist plans – as spelled out in their own procedures and rules—since they had spent gazillions of dollars (remember the Grand Inquisitor flown down to SLO for the endless Mad Hatter Tea Party “Trials?”) which singled out The Los Osos 45 for “prosecution.” In undertaking such a huge effort, the Board obviously must have been really, really serious about “Water” and making sure the CDO recipients did everything to comply with their CDOs and the RWQCB’s own rules, right?

Here’s Moylan's written comments submitted to the Board, some of which were delivered by her husband Bill (comment time was cut to 2 minutes for speakers so prepared statements had to be hastily altered), followed by the critical and hilarious questions she actually asked the Board:

To: CCRWQCB
From: Beverley De Witt-Moylan
Re: Comments for CCRWQCB Meeting of 5/9/09
Date: May 8, 2009


“In October 2005 we sent in our last mortgage payment after several years of sacrifice to pay it off early so that we would have no worries about our home following retirement. On January 30, 2006 we received our Cease and Desist Order. Eighteen months later we were retired, living in a home we own outright, a home you threaten to confiscate through daily fines dating back to 1988, civil and criminal prosecution, and a discharge prohibition that condemns our home.

To cooperate with the discharge prohibition to avoid any possibility of exposure to penalties and fines we have asked repeatedly to no avail for assistance in complying immediately with our Cease and Desist Order. We have heard from Mr. Briggs that, “There is no deadline to take this action as long as the County is proceeding with the project. At this time the County is proceeding satisfactorily, and we remain optimstic (sic) that the County will successfully see the project through to completion.” Our CDO, however, states that the enforcement process timeline commences on January 1, 2011. If the County is not making what you deem to be “reasonable progress” toward a wastewater treatment facility in Los Osos on that date, then we find ourselves on the road to eviction.

Mr. Briggs also stated that, “A legitimate consultant experienced in small-scale wastewater treatment could assist you.” We presume that “small scale wastewater treatment” involves an on-site system. Yet the CCRWQCB is on record as supporting no onsite system. Matt Thompson told my husband not to “go that way” when he asked for help in identifying an on-site system the CCRWQCB would approve.

Recently the Chairman told us that we “were raising the same issues…and it is not productive nor a good use of time to keep repeating this cycle.” We do not believe we are repeating a cycle. We are repeating a request which has not had a response from this board that helps us resolve the dilemma you and your staff contrived for us..
As you are well aware, San Luis Obispo County supervisors recently approved a short list of gravity only purveyors. If their decision results in appeals and law suits, it virtually ensures delay in the County sewer project.

We require an answer. In the event that there is material cessation to the County project resulting from delays caused by protests, appeals, and lawsuits based on recent Board of Supervisor decisions, you need to provide a plan for how we are to meet the terms of our Cease and Desist Order. This is a situation that has not yet had a reasonable, comprehensible answer. If you insist upon retaining the enforcement actions then you must assist us in complying timely with this order.”

And Moylan’s questions read to the Board:

Questions for the CCRWQCB staff who proposed our Cease and Desist Order and for the CCRWQCB Board Members who executed our Cease and Desist Order:

What material benefit to the groundwater in Los Osos can you report following 2-to-2 1/2 years of individual cooperation by 45 families with the requirements of their random individual enforcement orders to date?

What are your criteria to determine the success or failure of random individual enforcement against 45 families in Los Osos as a groundwater management strategy to date?

Given the current state of the County project and the implied certainty of delay through protests, appeals, and litigation, what plans do you have in place to assist those of us with Cease and Desist Orders to comply with the prohibition deadline as a groundwater management strategy?

If you have no plan in place, when will that plan be in place?

It was too bad the dear, sweet naifs from Grover Beach, so recently “enrolled” in the SWMP, weren’t there to hear the Board’s silence. They would have understood what they’re now facing, as swamp enrollees. And you can also understand just why, earlier in the meeting, all those folks from Los Osos were grinning like Cheshire Cats listening to those poor GB dears talking about unfunded mandates, bad science, out of date studies, counterproductive requirements, stonewalling silence, run amok staff, and unaffordable and useless plans. Not that those Cheshire Cat smiles weren’t full of sympathy. They were, they were.

A Later Note

On the same agenda was an item for the Board to vote to give $950,000 to the Wild Cherry Canyon project, a plan to put together piles of money to buy a large chunk of land to extend Montana de Oro State Park to Avila Beach. The money is fine/settlement money from an old spill/clean up settlement. The STAFF of the RWQCB nixed the plan, wishing to spend the money on SWMP-type programs. But the board overruled the staff’s recommendation and voted to help this once in a lifetime conservation effort.

Even though the money was coming from RWQCB “fines,” I couldn’t help thinking about all the money the RWQCB wasted on the Mad Hatter Tea Party and Torquemada Inquisition Kangaroo Court trying and convicting and hanging The Los Osos 45.

To date, nobody can get any guestimate as to the amount of the taxpayers money they wasted on that appalling decision. Responses to inquires as to the total expenditure are returned with a bland comment that the Board doesn’t keep track of stuff like that. The amount had to be a genuinely huge bundle -- days and days of hearings, a Grand Inquisitor being flown down from Sacramento, endless staff time, eighty seven tons of paper. In short, a bundle. All totally wasted because it didn’t fix a single drop of water. Think of what good that money could have been used for had it been used properly. Sad.




Ka-Ching! Ka-POW!

New posting over at The Rock, www.rockofthecoast@yahoo.com, “Rock Exclusive: BOS Clears MWH, Paavo Ogren of Conflict of Interest in Los Osos Sewer; Schicker Stands Firm.”

Reading the posting, what I found fascinating was County counsel Jensen’s comments: “My review of the materials that were submitted . . . I found nothing substantial in the materials that were submitted . . . .” [emphasis added]

Reading this and knowing LawyerSpeak, I kept finding myself mentally adding, “ . . . of course, I haven’t opened the box yet, but in reviewing the cover letter here, I can absolutely declare that I see nothing substantial in this cover letter. Nope, nope, nothing in this letter. Of course, I haven’t opened the box yet. And right now I’m thinking that I don’t have to do that since I can declare, with absolute certainty here from the dais, that there’s nothing about the fiber content of the cardboard, or how old the string is, or how many stamps are on it, that indicates anything substantial, so maybe nobody will notice that I haven’t actually opened the box before declaring the cover letter to be insubstantial, which, you will agree, is, at this moment in time, a FACTUALLY correct statement, the part about the cover letter, you see?”

As the Rock’s “exclusive,” snarkily notes, “Jensen did not disclose as to whether he researched any of the referenced documents listed in Schicker’s materials.”

Well, perhaps Mr. Jensen will actually open the box and write a more detailed report as to what’s in the box. Or maybe not. As I have noted before, nothing is “Illegal” until a DA somewhere says it’s “illegal.” And while public officials are required to LOOK at formal complaints, there is no law that says they have to SEE them. It’s all in the eye of the beholder and all up for interpretation. The Jensen Report will ‘splain it all.

44 comments:

Ron said...

Ann?

"anti-stormwater obstructionists!"

Absolutely beautiful!

Yin/Yang time:

Yin

Ann wrote:

"Delay? DELAY to get better data so as to ensure the project will actually work as planned, rather than just build whatever so as to not DELAY?Yang

"It seems to me that what is driving this here, and what is driving this entire thing, is the timing, and it is not a question of the feasibility of the site, but the need to proceed forward with the timing... this is what the Water Quality Control Board is saying, and that is what is driving the site selection, or feasibility at this time, not (the) environmentally preferable alternative."
-- California Coastal Commission member, Sara Wan, August 11, 2004, discussing the Coastal Development Permit for the Tri-W project

Ann wrote:

"...Mr. Briggs had no objection so long as the words “no significant delay” be added in..."

I STILL don't see how ALL of the delays are directly attributable to Briggs, himself.

I mean, he allowed the initial LOCSD Board to waste two EXTREMELY precious years chasing a "better, cheaper, faster" sewer project that he KNEW, from day one, was never going to work.

And, then, those two wasted years led directly to four more years wasted on "bait and switchy," and all of that wasted time led directly to Sara Wan's amazing quote, above.

I first wrote about all of that at this link:

http://sewerwatch.blogspot.com/2005/10/briggs-blown-opportunities.html -

Brilliant report, Ann.

Where's the (missed) Sunday poem?

Ron said...

Blogger is doing something else weird.

Immediately following some basic html tags in a comment, it doesn't add the line break for the next line anymore, yet, that doesn't show up until AFTER the 'preview,' when the post is published. Very annoying.

That's why my comment above reads:

- - -

"Delay? DELAY to get better data so as to ensure the project will actually work as planned, rather than just build whatever so as to not DELAY?Yang

- - -

When it should read:

- - -

"Delay? DELAY to get better data so as to ensure the project will actually work as planned, rather than just build whatever so as to not DELAY?

Yang

- - -

To fix that, I had to add the "?" after the 'end-italic' tag (computer geeks will know what I'm talking about ; - )

And while I'm back, I kind of mangled this:

"I STILL don't see how ALL of the delays are directly attributable to Briggs, himself."

Let me try that again:

ALL of the delays are directly attributable to Briggs, himself.

Ah, that's better. Yeah... MUCH better!

Alon Perlman said...

Ron, similar probem. It's as if the HTML does not any longer recognise breaks inserted by hitting the return line (enter).
Raises hell with the syntax and doesn't do much for "understandability". Ron knows the hidden Syntax.

For those who don't; if you insert "[br]", you can insert a hidden break but instead of the square brackets []i'm using in this example in this example use"< >" to bracket
-Left and right Greater than, less than symbols, the ones to the right of the letter "M" on the qwerty keyboard.
If this is not making sense to you its because I could not use the symbols "<>" with br (break) in between as an actual example because they dissappear and result in a "hidden" break when the comment posts.

Alon Perlman said...

Nice Reporting Ann,
and not just for the honorable mention, though it's "Perlman", not "Pearlman". (Google cares)
I like that you started with the tale of our southerly neigbhors.
The handling of Grover Beach indicates a persistance of an enforcement based regulatory culture
As someone who has been to most all Waterboard meetings in the last few years, I have found the most affective speaking (assuming the Audience is the Waterboard and staff) to be by those speakers who recognise that the Waterboard is not just all about Los Osos. Not that I'm suggesting that the Moylands and Dewitts (who have a close relationship with the Waterboard, that they did not elect or deserve to have), shold communicate any differently than they have been.

Alon Perlman said...

Ann sez "days and days of hearings, a Grand Inquisitor being flown down from Sacramento, endless staff time"Funny little thing happened during the break at the waterboard hearings back then,('07?) I approached the waterboard table and happened to run into Reed Sato, the Waterboard's ace prosecutor.
I couldnt think of anything to say to him on the spur of the moment so I blurted out-"Mr. Sato, does your presence here today, mean that you are not working on the next California Exxon Valdeez?His answer floored me, so I had no follow-up, when he said a terse "Yes"

Churadogs said...

Alon Perlman (sorry for the misspelling, my bad) sez:"I couldnt think of anything to say to him on the spur of the moment so I blurted out-"Mr. Sato, does your presence here today, mean that you are not working on the next California Exxon Valdeez?His answer floored me, so I had no follow-up, when he said a terse "Yes"

And sez:" The handling of Grover Beach indicates a persistance of an enforcement based regulatory culture

Amen. Wrong priorities, wasted resources, wasted time, bungled messes, massive CYA misdirections. Sadly typical.

Re the weird "new improved" syntax on this blog, I'll see if Greg the blog master can do something, since it'll be screwing up all of Newsmission, I suspect. Thanks.

Ron said...

Ann wrote:

"Re the weird "new improved" syntax on this blog, I'll see if Greg the blog master can do something"

I think it's a Blogger-wide thing, because it's also happening at SewerWatch.

Ann also wrote:

"As I have noted before, nothing is “Illegal” until a DA somewhere says it’s 'illegal.'"

And, as I've noted when you noted that, I spoke with Jarret Gran at the SLO County DAs office a few months back, and he told me that his office doesn't launch investigations, a case has to be brought to them by a "lead agency" before they investigate, and in Los Osos's case, that "lead agency" is the Sheriff's Department, and one of the higher-ups in that department is former LO Station Commander, and friend of Nash-Karner (as well as fellow Tri-W supporter), Martin Basti, so, it's highly unlikely that that "lead agency" will bring a case to the DAs office that involves shaky MWH contracts, and "bait and switchy," and the $25 million spent on a mid-town sewer-park that no one wanted in the first place.

That leaves the State Attorney General's office to investigate, but their primary job is to act as Council for all of the State agencies that botched the handling of the Tri-W project, so, obviously, the AGs office CAN'T investigate, and, so, you know, that's that.

Perfect impunity.

Apparently, an elected official can commit fraud (i.e. knowingly lie to numerous State agencies) on a massive level and get away with it, as long as they're friends with someone from the local "lead agency" (and share the same political positions), and the fraud involves highly embarrassing situations for those numerous State agencies.

Ann also wrote:

"The Jensen Report will ‘splain it all."

Wanna see my recent e-mail to him?

Yes? Well, o.k. ...

- - -
Hello Mr. Jensen,

I heard you say at the Supervisors' meeting last Tuesday that you will be creating a report to address Lisa Schicker's formal complaint involving, among other things, the competency of the engineering firm Montgomery, Hatson, Harza, to build both the treatment facility and the collection system for the proposed Los Osos wastewater system.

In her complaint, Mrs. Schicker writes: "MWH is a firm that has already made millions in Los Osos from this illegal contract, for a project that no one wanted (see your recent survey results)"

I would like to add some relevant information to that very important point.

The survey results she is referring to, is this:

"Only (9-percent) of (Prohibition Zone) respondents chose the mid-town (Tri-W) location..."
-- Los Osos Wastewater Project Community Advisory Survey, March 27, 2009

To that quote, I would like to add two other relevant quotes.

As you may know, MWH was also the firm that was selected to design the LOCSD's previous project, that included a proposed treatment facility at the "mid-town" Tri-W site.

In the 2001 Facilities Report for that project, created by MWH, it reads:

"The size and location of the other sites (other than Tri-W) did not provide an opportunity to create a community amenity. The sites on the outskirts of town could not deliver a community use area that was readily accessible to the majority of residents..."

Furthermore, in the (now expired) Coastal Development Permit, issued by the California Costal Commission in 2004, it reads:

"... other alternatives (to the Tri-W site) were rejected (by the Los Osos CSD) on the basis that they did not accomplish project objectives for centrally located community amenities."

Here's my question:

In your report, considering those two quotes above, coupled with the recent community survey results, will you be addressing Mrs. Schicker's point regarding why MWH was selected to both of the short lists to build the project, considering that the firm spent five years (2000 - 2005) developing a sewer plant in the middle of Los Osos for the sole reason that the people of Los Osos could easily get to the public park in the sewer plant (designed by MWH), even though, it turns out, more than 90-percent of Prohibition Zone residents, according to the recent community survey, don't want a mid-town "sewer-park" to begin with?

If not, then please consider this e-mail a request to have that specific point -- why was MWH selected to the short lists of contractors by SLO County officials, after displaying apparent gross (and very, very expensive) incompetency in the handling of the previous LOCSD project -- by designing a sewer-park-plant in the middle of town so residents could easily access the "sewer-park," that almost no one wanted.

Considering MWH's previous extremely costly failures in Los Osos (they also, according to the 2000 Oswald report, spent two years [1999 - 2000] developing a "70-acre Resource Park" sewer plant that also failed), their selection to the short lists doesn't appear to make sense.

I'm looking forward to reading your report.

Thank you,
- - -

I'm VERY interested to see if he addresses any of that in his report.

If not, it looks like MWH will have a THIRD opportunity to fail in Los Osos.

Where's Donald Trump when you need him?

Shark Inlet said...

First,

Ron now thinks the cops are part of the cover-up. Maybe he also thinks that Bill Clinton was part of the plot to frame OJ.

Seriously, Ron mixes up numbers so very much (250 is less than 200) we should probably look more closely at what he writes for quantitative literacy.

From that point of view, he now claims that the County survey shows that 90% of the town doesn't want a sewer park. Ron, that was not the question asked. When given three specific options for the location of a treatment (and no information about the ramification of those options about whether a park was included or not and whether the treated water would be used to recharge our aquifer, etc.) 90% answered out of town was preferable to in town. I suspect that a sizable fraction of those who answered this way did so, at least in part, because even if the didn't mind the former TriW plan, the lack of park included plus the likelihood of another round of delays because of additional lawsuits soured them on the idea.

In short, Ron is using this 90% as if it refers to the original level of support for TriW. He could have just as well used the election results from 2005, 2004, 2002 or the assessment ballot of 2001 for the same purpose but he didn't. Ron is cherry-picking the most extreme number he can find just to sell his point.

Ron is acting as an advocate and not a journalist. I rather doubt that any degree granting institution would be proud of a journalism graduate mixing up reporting and advocacy this way. The most curious thing to me in this regard is Ron's continued complaining about Pandora trying to push her agenda even though he's doing the same thing himself.

franc4 said...

Shark,
It seems you spend alot more time trying to discredit Ron (and Ann) rather than focusing in on the REAL issues.....like the County and Water Boards damage they are inflicting on LoSo and now another community. Isn't that more important than Ron or Anns' comments? Maybe not, because you have nothing to say about the "Ram-Rodding " you are about to receive from the County, who you so readily handed over a blank check. Where is your "wisdom" on those issues, or is criticizing people who DO have something to say on REAL issues, more fun? Could it be that what you deem important may not be as important to others exercising their freedom of speech, as you find relevant.....especially when they are not your beliefs.
Are you satisfied with the actions and decisions
BOS dictates or reports to you? If not, why don't you get on board with the folks who are challenging them instead of picking on Ron? That would be far more productive, don't you think? I just don't get folks like you, Mike (especially) and 'toons. You attack the wrong people.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

franc - the "wrong" people are those who keep delaying the project. Had they been "right" we'd have a sewer by now and it would cost less. I'm sticking with the County, thanks.

Watershed Mark said...

Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.
Albert Einstein

franc4 wrote: It seems you spend alot more time trying to discredit Ron (and Ann) rather than focusing in on the REAL issues.....

How refreshing!

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,
How is your looking for "sorry, I forgot his last name" going?
Any progress?

When you had your drinking date with MIKE, did he have any word about his friends and relatives knowing what town or city they actually live in?

Where you two able to discuss his research in Florida over the music or whatever?

GetRealOsos said...

Shark,

You say, "Ron is acting as an advocate and not a journalist..."

Pot calling the kettle black? It's YOU who act as a cheerleader for Tri-W and not as a concerned citizen!

Why don't you take a crack at my question about the State and Federal paying for their benefit on the 218? If the County was looking for affordability then they'd do the right thing. But, no, apparently wanting the most expensive sewer on the planet, so they can drive out half the town so Van Burden, Starlings, and the real estate chain can cash in. Higher taxes for the County, etc. etc.

Why don't you address that if you're just a "concerned citizen"??

Lay off Ron, he makes sense.

GetRealOsos said...

Sewertoons,

Are you talking about the "wrong" people like the County and how they delayed the project for 20 years?

... Or are you talking about the "wrong" people being Pandora, as she wasted years by promising a project of ponds when she knew the water boards had said no and there wasn't enough land.

Are those the "wrong" people that delayed?

WHY DON'T YOU TELL US ALL WHY IN THE WORLD YOU WOULD SUPPORT A BAD PROJECT AND THE MOST EXPENSIVE ONE AT THAT? WHY LYNETTE? WHAT'S IN IT FOR YOU? I THOUGHT YOU WERE TAXPAYERS WATCH? IF SO, WHY DO YOU SUPPORT THE MOST EXPENSIVE PROJECT EVER? WHY NOT THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE? Hmmmmmm...

Watershed Mark said...

GRO wrote:"Are you talking about the "wrong" people like the County and how they delayed the project for 20 years?"

Class A SMACK!!!

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,
While you are considering GetRealOsos' very thoughtful questions, please consider the "sorry, I forgot his last name" issue.
What do you know and when are you going to tell us?

Shark Inlet said...

GetReal,

I don't remember your question. Would you ask it again?

As far as laying off Ron ... I'll do that as soon as he starts making sense. That is, as soon as he starts considering the very real question of costs in a reasonable way (for example, saying that we are saving money by paying $250/month instead of $200/month would be an example of a financial comment which is not reasonable).

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,
How is your search for "sorry, I lost his last name" going?
Any progress to report?

Billy Dunne said...

--“The AES DES PPP LOCSD BK Re-org plan due out shortly, will be a once in a lifetime story Sona. It is going to make HISTORY whether the Tribune covers it or not. Let's stay in touch.”
-- Markus Low

"Low started sending a string of e-mails to environmental bureaucrats, politicians, and reporters that poke holes in the Reclamator’s effectiveness...Low says the system has not been adequately tested, with only a handful of controlled samples used as evidence that it works.”

Which one is it Markus?

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

I've been ignoring Billy's pestering of you, but one thing just caught my eye in the quote about you.

Did you actually say that the system had not been adequately tested or that only a small number of samples were evaluated?

And ... even if you didn't say what you were quoted here as saying, would you tell us now whether you believe the Reclamator to have been adequately tested?

Ron said...

Whooops...

I wrote:

"That leaves the State Attorney General's office to investigate, but their primary job is to act as Council for all of the State agencies"

Of course, I meant:

"That leaves the State Attorney General's office to investigate, but their primary job is to act as counsel for all of the State agencies"

(Again... some typos I can live with. Some? Not so much.)

It's actually a very interesting situation with the AG's office and Los Osos.

They are supposed to "represent" the people of California, however, when the people of California are victims of lazy state agencies, it's the AG's job to defend the state agencies.

Kinda weird, huh?

Here's the link the the AG web site:

http://ag.ca.gov/about.php... where it reads:

"The Attorney General represents the people of California in civil and criminal matters before trial courts, appellate courts and the supreme courts of California and the United States. The Attorney General also serves as legal counsel to state officers and, with few exceptions, to state agencies, boards and commission."

Those "state officers... state agencies, boards and commission" utterly failed Los Osos by never verifying the ONLY reason to build a wildly unpopular "sewer-park" in the middle of town -- a reason that never existed -- and now, instead of representing the people of California, the AG's office is forced to serve as the lazy "state officers... state agencies, boards and commission" legal counsel.

What a bizarre, yet, very, very interesting situation.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,

Every biological system design is challenged by varying flows and loads.
Some have a long history over a much broader range of use (size "GPD" as well as flows and loads) over others, including the design that eventually gets selected for Los Osos and just like the “Men’s Resort”…

At this time the USBF™ design is not used in on-site applications in the United States.
Turn to page 23REVIEW OF TECHNOLOGIES FOR THE ONSITE TREATMENT OF WASTEWATER IN CALIFORNIACheck out the ratings for USBF™ on Page 19Then compare those “grades” with everything else tested including the AES BESTEP the basis for the design you and Willy are interested in discussing.

Interesting that you and Willy are concerned by something that is, at this point, moot.
There won’t be any on-site systems used inside the PZ. They should have been used, but won’t be.

I will be giving an interview sometime in the future.
Until then be patient or not, I really could not care less.

If Willy thinks he is somehow tying “sorry, I forgot his last name” Lynette to Tom Murphy, I say: have at it.
It doesn’t make any difference to me.

Watershed Mark said...

Ron wrote:"They are supposed to "represent" the people of California, however, when the people of California are victims of lazy state agencies, it's the AG's job to defend the state agencies."

Great job of peeling back the layers in order to get to the heart of the matter, Ron.

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

I note yet again that you are not replying to a direct question.

While you may say your answer doesn't mater, you presume it doesn't matter to me or Billy or others. You should not make that assumption.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
I see again, you do not understand process or "the process"...
Phoenix is not in over draft.

Shark Inlet said...

I'm sorry Mark, but at risk of offending those with a disability by suggesting that you are in any way like the disabled, your answer is retarded.

My answer did not in any way address any process or any "process".

Fenicks is totally in overdraft and you know it.

Furthermore, the point I was gonna make is this ... unless you deny Billy's quote as inaccurate ... unless you tell us that you didn't say such things at all, you had no business telling folks in Los Osos that the Reclamator was a solution in any way.

Simply put, if you didn't know as a fact that the Reclamator was hugely awesome, you shouldn't have sold it to us as being so. Rephrasing that in case you didn't understand ... your two statements are in such contradiction the only conclusions that we could reach about you are that either you are willing to sell a product without really knowing that it will do what it claims to do (and in which case you are totally unethical) or you are willing to lie to the newspaper to make your former partner look bad (in which case you are a total rat-bastard).

Which is it? Unethical liar or rat-bastard liar?

Word Verification: namaste

GetRealOsos said...

Ron,

What is really bizarre is that we, as taxpayers, are paying for the State Water Board and their lawyers from the AG's office to fight against us.

The State Water Board wants that Tri-W project and they want MWH to build it. Hmmmmm...

I heard that Jerry Brown's dad as Governor created the water boards and had them report to him, so maybe that's why Jerry Brown won't investigate (even though his mission statement says he works for the citizens of CA, and it doesn't say on the mission statement anything about representing the state agencies over the citizens). Wow. That's all I can say!

Watershed Mark said...
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Watershed Mark said...
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Watershed Mark said...
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Watershed Mark said...

The Reclamator is a solution, Phoenix is not in over draft and you know it.

I look forward to continued civil discussion about real issues concerning the citizens in Los Osos and Baywood Park.
I do hope that you will be able to get beyond your incessant whining.

Have you heard anything about "sorry, I forgot his last name"?

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

If the device has not been verified by adequate testing it cannot be called a solution. You did not deny saying that it wasn't adequately tested and you now tell us what you were telling us some time back, that the Reclamator would work for us.

Essentially you were acting like someone selling a drug as the cure for cancer even though no one would scientifically know that it would work. Sure, if a drug would work in theory it is worth investigating, but it should not be presumed to work before testing verifies safety and efficacy.

I can see why you would find a person questioning your honesty and intelligence "whining" but if you want people to trust you it would be helpful to have a set of past statements which are at least logically consistent.

As for Phoenix .... hahahaha. The funniest thing about this is that you are arguing with your own state DWR and you have refused to provide any evidence for your silly statement. Again ... hahahahaha. It is as if you expect to be trusted as an expert and that we should believe you over hydrologists who work at monitoring the health of your aquifers.

The funny thing is that I was letting this drop and it is only because you brought it up that I bother mentioning the issue.

Ron said...

GRO wrote:

"What is really bizarre is that we, as taxpayers, are paying for the State Water Board and their lawyers from the AG's office to fight against us."

Unbelievably MESSED-UP situation!

When it comes down to brass tacks, and it's the people of California vs. lazy state agencies, Jerry Brown (AND former AG, Bill Lockyer) have the backs of the state agencies.

I mean, I don't even know what to say to that, other than that is as f-d up a situation as I have ever seen.

Absolutely ridiculous, and the people of California should be PISSED!

Watershed Mark said...

Essentially Steve, you are obviously bunqualified to be offering your "feelings/beliefs" regarding wastewater process.
You have demonstrated over and over again you do not know the water supply of Phoenix, Arizona.

That is both funny and sad.

If you followed my suggestion and simply made contact with those who are “actually” in charge of Phoenix's water you would not still look so stupid.
I will of course accept your apology, once you become "knowledgeable" on these off topic subjects as both are, at this time, inconsequential to the residents of Los Osos/Baywood Park.

Have you heard anything about “sorry, I forgot his last name”?

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
What is sad (hahahahaha) is that your own State AG is fighting you the taxpayer defending "lazy agencies"...

But asa State employee that may actually be a taboo subject for you to discuss.
Too bad you traded in you right to freespeech for a job...

What will your children think about that, later?

Sad/Bwahahahahaha

Watershed Mark said...

Ron,
The "People" are pissed.
The "Sheople" are clueless evidenced by sheep like Snark, Willy, Lynette, R1 and others who are so stupid and biased they cannot see they are enabling their own demise.

They don't realize that they are on the menu...

Aaron Ochs - Managing Editor of The ROCK said...

The taxpayers are paying the people that are fighting us, not for us. This is happening all over the country. There needs to be an overhaul of how these regulatory agencies are handled. Unfortunately in California, Gov. Schwarzenegger is too preoccupied with our horrendous budget to do anything about it.

Shark Inlet said...

I am confused by your last two comments to me, Mark. They make no sense. Please rephrase if you would like a response.

Watershed Mark said...

Bhaaaaa, Bhaaaaa.

Watershed Mark said...

Sheep Slaughter or Black Sheep

Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote: "I am confused..."

Steve, On that we can agree!

Watershed Mark said...

Bhaaaaa...

Shark Inlet said...

I'm gonna take that as an answer of "nope, I'm not gonna rephrase my confusing comments because I don't care to have a discussion." Again, if you would like to chat you should explain yourself.

Watershed Mark said...

Bhaaaaa, Bhaaaaa....