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Thursday, November 13, 2008

Tribune Viewpoint:

Below, the Nov 12, 08 “Viewpoint” by Julie Tacker, CSD board member, printd n the Tribune under the headline, “Setting the record straight in Los Osos.” Posted with permission. (A poster on this blogsite calling himself Richard LeGros (recalled CSD board member?) noted in the comment section of a previous post, that the courts have just decreed that the CSD’s insurance company is supposed to pay the legal fees of the CSD members to defend against this latest Tax Payers Watch lawsuit (the one suing 5 CSD members personally.) If correct, for now, that particular tax-payer bleed-out has stopped. For now . . . . )

“A Sept. 23 article by David Sneed describes the “daunting challenges” facing the Los Osos Community Services District election, as water, financial and sewer woes.
I disagree with several statements in the article.

It states that the sewer responsibility “has passed from the district to the county.” In fact, residents in Los Osos and countywide are anxiously watching the county process as general fund monies are floated ($6 million so far) in the pursuit of a wastewater project. County supervisors have yet to pass a resolution (required by AB2701) to formally accept the project — expected sometime next year.

Once passed, the $127 million or $25,000 per household tax can begin to be collected to recoup the county’s investment. It is only then that the district can proceed with its Chapter 9 bankruptcy, where claims and most litigation have been stayed.

Furthermore, the article states that the sewer is a “key component” in “helping the district get out of bankruptcy.” Bankruptcy protection only applies to old debt (brought on by the recalled board’s reckless decision to break ground on the project just days before the election). Bankruptcy debt will be divided among creditors; funds will come from available assets left from that failed project.

Frozen SRF (state revolving fund loan) funds and real estate related to the project, i. e. easements and pump station sites (including the Tri- W site if the county chooses another treatment site or chooses a STEP collection system) will be sold.

The article also suggests a nexus from taking over the sewer after its construction to “restoring the district’s solvency.” Law requires sewage treatment fees to be treated as enterprise funds (only enough can be collected to cover the cost of services provided). Simply put, there will be no “profit” from a sewer system to pay old debt.

Also, while the article correctly states, “Injecting treated wastewater into the aquifer is one way to prevent seawater intrusion,” it fails to mention that the current county proposal will not achieve this objective. The use of treated wastewater to recharge the basin will be left up to the purveyors to analyze and engineer and pay for in a shift of financial burden from the sewer to the water bill. Those who trust the county’s process are enjoying a dog-and-pony show that likely will not resolve seawater intrusion issues.

The article barely mentions the real crisis issue facing the district today: litigation brought on by vindictive recalled board members (aka Taxpayers Watch). The cost to defend lawsuits levied against current board members, including myself, is eating away at district reserves. This litigation was relieved from stay because it did not necessarily involve the district. The district is obligated to defend its directors; consequently the district is involved. Funds to defend are coming from property taxes paid throughout the district and rates and special taxes paid by properties within its water and drainage districts. This seriously jeopardizes the quality of service provided to residents. The current tally on expenses surrounding this single lawsuit is expected to top $500,000.

Taxpayers Watch was unable to dissolve the district in 2006. Its recent legal antics may accomplish it by bleeding the district into insolvency.


--
Julie Tacker “

128 comments:

Unknown said...

Gee Julie... Is the PZLDF Lawsuit "eating away the Reserves"...??? Where's the accounting for that lawsuit...???

Guess we'll finally have a transparent and open CSD starting in January...

Richard LeGros said...

Ann,

In her Viewpoint Julie sadly showed a lack of professional decorum. I see not need to address the nature of any of her vented opinions; other than to disagree as illuminated by my past postings on this blog.

Julie, as an elected public official sitting on the CSD board, showed an unforgivable lack of decorum by attacking her own constituents; which INCLUDES TW and its supporters.

The fact that she is not pleased with the TW lawsuit has NOTHING to do with the CSD's or Public's business. Regardless of how distressed she is regarding the TW lawsuit, she (as a CSD board member) had no right to burden the community with her personal politics and spin regarding the TW lawsuit or its motives. It does not elevate or serve herself or her fellow defendants to offer up insults while parties are involved in settlement proceedings; or to blame private citizens for hers and the recall board's policy failures.

Now that the Federal Courts have ruled in favor of the CSD forcing it’s insurance provider to pay all legal expenses (past and forthcoming), the district is now completely reimbursed for any public money the recall board decided to spend on themselves regarding their defense; and the CSD is, rightly, out of the TW lawsuit issue completely. In short, the TW lawsuit will not have any impact on the CSD's serious cash flow problems; and most likely will in the end actually improve said cash flow upon the lawsuit’s resolution.

That being said, it is time for the recall board and the public to face the reality of the current state of the CSD, regardless of opinion about blame, and work together to find a satisfactory resolution.

-R

Osos Change said...

Richard,

Everything you say about Julie or anyone else like her can be said the same about you nearly word-for-word. You're quite the hypocrite.

Shark Inlet said...

OsosChange,

I think you miss one key point here. Julie was complaining about how much the TW lawsuit has cost the LOCSD ... but it appears that the TW lawsuit is not costing the LOCSD anything.

On the other hand, I am unclear about why the LOCSD who is so hard up for cash should pay for the PZLDF suit which is pretty much ... um ... completely unnecessary because even if it were to win (and how likely is that?), the win will not impact anything unless the County decides to bail out of the project they've already spent $6M developing.

Sounds like Julie is just plain wrong. Correct me if I am incorrect.

Richard LeGros said...

Osos,

Hypocritical? Possibly; but that does not negate my criticisims or observations regarding her Viewpoint.

-R

Osos Change said...

It doesn't negate your criticism, but it doesn't necessarily attribute any additional value to it either.

Richard may be right, but I think professional decorum goes both ways. The same standard should be applied to everyone including the critics.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

osos change says:
"…but it doesn't necessarily attribute any additional value to it either."

I disagree. Richard's comment illuminated what may have been overlooked completely - that she really has no business talking about this stuff. It added value where there was none.

Are you a defender of Julie or was this just a convenient platform for you to rag on the old Board? Looks to me like Julie wanted one last moment of self justification in the spotlight before she exits stage left. No encores will be forthcoming. I hope.

I can use the word critic in the same sentence as the name "osos change," I have trouble with the words professional decorum, however.

Below are some of osos change's prior "professional decorum" postings:

"Cal Poly and Los Osos deserves to know how much of a tyrant you really are."

"Don't tell me how to explain something. Go find yourself a dictionary and take some pills to slow down your Alzheimers…"

"You are a habitual liar and I think Los Osos is tired of your psychobabble."

"Gail is bad news and a diagnosed pathological liar (saying, "My husband is dying as a result of a malignant rectal tumor!" to get out of attending her own PZLDF meetings)…"

Osos Change said...

I'm not running for LOCSD nor do I want to. You ran for CSD but you've lowered yourself to being a pseudo-anonymous bigot just like your husband, Lou -- and yes, you really are a bigot and a coward because neither you or Steve Rein have the gall to say this stuff at a CSD or BOS meeting.

So don't you dare lecture me about professional decorum. My left nut has more standards of decency than you or Steve will ever have in your lifetime.

Unknown said...

I doubt you have a left or right nut, althought you are clearly, just a nut... keep taking your meds...

"...My left nut has more standards of decency..." More than Julie....????

I sure am pleased to see your latest post... think I ought to "complain" to the censors of this blog about YOUR threats, lies and enuendo...???? You really should make an appointment with a shrink...and probably a cardiologist... It is coming and you know it...!!!!!!!!!! Fast and quick my friend, fast and quick.....!!!!!!!

Churadogs said...

Children, children. Let's see, hypocrites, crocodile tears,blame shifing, hidden agendas, lies, cover ups, misstatements, spin, name calling. Yep. Same old, same old.

Richard LeGros said...

Ann,

And your reason(s) for posting Julie's Viewpoint is/are?

The viewpoint is entirely political; has nothing to do with the business of the CSD; only serves to incite; and only illustrates Julie's extreme denial of reality coupled with 'CYA'.

Why post the Viewpoint at all?

If you sought reactions from readers, then what purpose is there for chastising them when they react? Or is that your intent; to malevolently 'stir the pot', thus enabling you to set yourself up as a pseudo mother hen clucking disapprovingly over her brood?

-R

Watershed Mark said...

RL,
It's Ann's Land.
Love it or leave it.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote: "I have trouble with the words professional decorum, however."

No kidding...

A repost from the bottom of "mark yer calenders":


Lynette,

I understand your wanting to believe the county's consulting engineer study is the final authority even when that work isn't complete.

I get that you cannot make your point using facts and rely largely upon emotional outbursts that have no basis in engineering or technology.

If you read the EONE website you would see that there are 500,000 customers using their systems.

Why do you think the county's engineer didn't include EONE or ECOfluid in their study, yet?

Hint when they do it will prove "in" over STEP/STEG and your beloved "leaky" Gravity.

Although we will probably continue to disagree, I will continue to use logic and you can use whatever you wish.

Your continuing obtuse perspective regarding collection and treatment is, laughable.

I'll leave it there for now.
Your math is just as comical...

I'm happy you think Tertiary MBR for $7.4M is better that $25M for secondary water.

You see, if the county locates the treatment facility outside the PZ the 7/mgL N issue is mute, save the 499 gpd/per inch per diameter mile of leaky pipe.

That ";eakage" should be of concern to the WB and to you.

The WB and County could be sensitive to that sewage flow in the PZ and so should you, if you were intellectually honest.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote: "I have trouble with the words professional decorum, however."

No kidding...

"Partly" repost from the bottom of "mark yer calenders":


Lynette,

I understand your wanting to believe the county's consulting engineer study is the final authority even when that work isn't complete.

I get that you cannot make your point using facts and rely largely upon emotional outbursts that have no basis in engineering or technology.

If you read the EONE website you would see that there are 500,000 customers using their systems.

Why do you think the county's engineer didn't include EONE or ECOfluid in their study, yet?

Hint when they do it will prove "in" over STEP/STEG and your beloved "leaky" Gravity.

Although we will probably continue to disagree, I will continue to use logic and you can use whatever you wish.

Your continuing obtuse perspective regarding collection and treatment is, laughable.

I'll leave it there for now.
Your math is just as comical...

I'm happy you think Tertiary MBR for $7.4M is better that $25M for secondary water.

You see, if the county locates the treatment facility outside the PZ the 7/mgL N issue is mute, save the 499 gpd/per inch per diameter mile of leaky pipe.

That "leakage" should be of concern to the WB and to you.

The WB and County could be sensitive to that sewage flow in the PZ and so should you, if you were intellectually honest.

When there is something better "as Paavo Ogren thinks- everything else falls away"...

There is even law which supportshis position. See here:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=64225225310+3+0+0&WAISa
ction=retrieve

20133. (a) A county, with approval of the board of supervisors, may utilize an alternative procedure for bidding on construction projects in the county in excess of two million five hundred thousand dollars ($2,500,000) and may award the project using either the lowest responsible bidder or by best value.
(b) (1) It is the intent of the Legislature to enable counties to utilize design-build for buildings and county sanitation wastewater treatment facilities. It is not the intent of the Legislature to authorize this procedure for other infrastructure, including, but not limited to, streets and highways, public rail transit, or water resources facilities and infrastructures.
(2) The Legislature also finds and declares that utilizing a design-build contract requires a clear understanding of the roles and responsibilities of each participant in the design-build process.
(3) If the board of supervisors elects to proceed under this section, the board of supervisors shall establish and enforce for design-build projects a labor compliance program containing the requirements outlined in Section 1771.5 of the Labor Code, or it shall contract with a third party to operate a labor compliance program containing the requirements outlined in Section 1771.5 of the Labor Code. This requirement shall not apply to any project where the county or the design-build entity has entered into any collective bargaining agreement or agreements that bind all of the contractors performing work on the projects.
(c) As used in this section:
(1) "Best value" means a value determined by objective criteria related to price, features, functions, and life-cycle costs.

The question then becomes one of integrity: Do the supervisors/people's elected represetatives (who will ultimately pay) or an appointed bureaucrat (Paavo Ogren) and his hand selected private business who may have a potential conflict of interest, determine the "objective criteria"?

Watershed Mark said...

Technical glitch may have contributed to the double post.

If it is wirth saying once it's worth repeating.

For instance:As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark says:
"If you read the EONE website you would see that there are 500,000 customers using their systems."

Worldwide? How long have they been in business to have that few installations?

Point me to the 10 years of data with 7mg/L on nitrates would you mark? That is really all that the Water Board cares about. Don't bother with a evasive answer, either. We had enough of that with Tom. You are on the "inside" it seems, as you are pushing so hard to sell us on this thing. Surely you can post where we can find that data here, can't you?

Please post my emotional outbursts too, I'd like to share them.

The word is "moot."

It still looks to me like I get a manhole cover in my yard.

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what happens during a 3 day blackout? The tanks are really small.

Off the e|one site:
"When power has been restored after a power outage, it is likely that nearly all the pumps in the system will try to operate simultaneously. Under these conditions, the dynamic head loss component of the total head will rise significantly. A number of pumps in the system would see a total back pressure high enough to cause the thermal overload protectors to automatically trip in a few minutes. Operation under conditions that could cause damage to the pumps or the system would be avoided. While these pumps are offline, other pumps in the system would be able to empty their tanks. After one to two minutes, the group that tripped off on thermal overload would cool and restart. The system back pressure would have been reduced and the group would be able to pump down normally. This process repeats itself automatically under the influence of each unit’s own thermal protector, reliably restoring the system to normal operation."

Now, show me a town with a retrofit this large where this would work perfectly. This looks like a recipe for disaster.

Maybe you can explain to us why this wasn't even on the radar when you and Tom were best buds. And why you need to keep your hand in hawking wastewater technologies? Something psychological? You have your successful meat packing business, don't you? Why this?

The draft RFQ is out. If e|one wants to participate, fine. I have no idea why you are pushing this here an not at the County level.

You have the same annoying habit as Tom did in insulting the very people you are trying to sell this stuff to. I could overlook all that if you'd just give us the information we are asking for. And if you can't deliver, please be honest about that. It would be so refreshing.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, I forgot to post this. This is significant:

Off the e|one site:
"Depending on topography, size of the system and planned rate of buildout, appurtenances may include valve boxes, flushing arrangements, air release valves at significant high points, check valves and full-ported stops at the junction of each house connection with the low pressure sewer main."

Watershed Mark said...

Please post my emotional outbursts too, I'd like to share them.

Here you go:
mark, I forgot to post this. This is significant:

Off the e|one site:
"Depending on topography, size of the system and planned rate of buildout, appurtenances may include valve boxes, flushing arrangements, air release valves at significant high points, check valves and full-ported stops at the junction of each house connection with the low pressure sewer main."

Now, show me a town with a retrofit this large where this would work perfectly. This looks like a recipe for disaster.

Sure as soon as you show me one for gravity. You know, no leaks...

I appreciate the grammar lesson, I needed it and thank you for demostrating that www.eone.com demontrates the kind of integrity one should expect from a service provider.

For every negative you attempt to point out there is at least on for your beloved gravity.

Your gravity leaks, stinks and costs much more than one based on eone.

-The draft RFQ is out. If e|one wants to participate, fine.
See, you are working for the county, Lynette. I expect that this blog is being read as it provides a barometer of sorts. An early warning system, if you will...

Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage.
Niccolo Machiavelli
Date of Birth:
May 3, 1469
Date of Death:
June 21, 1527

As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.


A return to first principles in a republic is sometimes caused by the simple virtues of one man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example.
Niccolo Machiavelli

Next.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark says this (but fails to answer any of my questions):

"As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away."

Fine - have e|one submit their info to the County. If all you say is TRUE, I'm sure e|one will be selected as an option. What am I supposed to do about this anyway? Why are you pitching this to me?

I didn't ask too many questions this time. Maybe you could do me the courtesy of answering just one.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, show me where I accuse you of emotional outbursts.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette, show me where I accuse you of accusing me of emotional outbursts.

Watershed Mark said...

Color me cynical, but why wasn't MBR Bioreactor included in the county's review efforts, when the NWRI Panel suggested that is should be?

From: Mark Low [mailto:Mark@NOwastewater.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:35 AM
To: pogren@co.slo.ca.us; John Waddell; Mark Hutchinson; 'LOWWP@co.slo.ca.us'
Cc: BGibson@co.slo.ca.us; Karl Hadler; Lou Carella; Mark Low
Subject: ECOfluid's USBF 1 MGD Generic Plant Proposal-Membrane Bioreactor all gravity process flow
Importance: High

Greetings Gentlemen,

In response to October 27, 2008: Release of the Final Report from the NWRI Independent Peer Review Panel:


Treatment Technology
4.3.1 Options:
Biolac
Facultative Pond
Oxidation Ditch
Membrane Bioreactor (added by Panel)


Attached please see a generic proposal for a 1MGD ECOfluid USBF Membrane Bioreactor Title 22 Water Reclamation Facility.

A close review of our treatment technology will reveal many advantages over the other treatment technologies your study process included.
These advantages include, but are not limited to, reduced footprint, reduced energy consumption, no odor, reduced sludge production, reduced capital and O&M costs.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Did you forget the Tri-W project? All of that EIR information will be in the new EIR. The staunch S/S supporters nixed that with their need for out-of-town, we-want-cheap. Maybe you can appeal to them?

GetRealOsos said...

Shark,

You say, "... unless the County decides to bail out of the project they've already spent $6M developing...."

THE COUNTY SPENT $6 MILLION DEVELOPING???!!!...WHAT???

THAT'S THE PZ'S EXPENSE SHARK, THE COUNTY WON'T PAY A DIME, IN FACT THEY WILL PROFIT....WHAT ABOUT 12% OF THE COST OF THE PROJECT?!

THE COUNTY SPENT $6 MILLION OF OUR MONEY FOR A DOG N PONY SHOW!

TALK ABOUT A PUBLIC WASTE LAWSUIT!!

THE COUNTY HAS KNOWN FROM DAY ONE THAT THEY WOULD DO GRAVITY, AND HAVE ACTUALLY STATED THIS IN WRITING. THAT EQUALS A DOG N PONY SHOW AND A WASTE OF (OUR) PUBLIC FUNDS.

AS ALWAYS SHARK, LOVE YOUR SPIN!

GetRealOsos said...

Mark,

You said, "
For instance:As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

Don't you know that Paavo is a liar?! As he (Paavo) has stated, "he only works for one master."

Don't you love it?

GetRealOsos said...

Sewertoons,

Just watched the CSD meeting again. I listened to Seitz again regarding the Tri-W's Prop 218 vote. He basically said that the financial model they used then wouldn't work this time for a 218.

Well it wouldn't work now and didn't work then.

The Tri-W was illegal. The SRF loan was illegal.

Listen again to Seitz.

You support illegal activities all over the place. The County's 218 was illegal too.

You are a crack up or maybe I should say a crack pot!

Have a nice weekend!

Shark Inlet said...

GetReal,

You seem to react rather strongly to a side comment I made. Let's pretend I didn't write that and get back to the main issue I raised ...

Neither you nor OsosChange have pointed out an error in the key point here ... Julie's main complaint that the TW lawsuit is costing the LOCSD money is just plain wrong and that she supported the LOCSD paying for the PZLDF lawsuit which appears to be little more than a huge waste of money.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,

I sent you Ripley's Memo #6 which states the MBR with Nitrogen removal was $50.16/gallon required 8 acres and would have used 3200 kWh/af worth of energy.

An ECOfluid MBR costs $7.4 sits on 15,000 square feet and uses less than 600 kWh/af, which is less than Facultative/Wetlands which require 60 acres.

Is that "cheap" enough?
As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

Watershed Mark said...

GRLO,

Regarding all things sewerish at the SLO County level, my goal is:
Holding those who want to serve the public, accountable, in a lawful and fiduciary manner using the power of internet technology. Pursuit of happiness while thinking of those who will come after me first.

I Love LO!

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, you submitted your stuff to the County, what have you provided to the Water Board? The County won't go with anything that doesn't meet the Water Board's requirements. Where is that 10 years of data showing 7mg/L nitrogen or less after processing? Why talk if you don't have that? If you had it wouldn't you want to show us? You keep ignoring my request to see it. It could cost 10¢, but without that it is useless to us.

Um, can you translate this? "Pursuit of happiness while thinking of those who will come after me first." Huh?

We are not going with 60 acres of anything, so why bring that up? Are you totally out of touch with what is happening around here?

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

getreal said about Seitz's remarks:
"He basically said that the financial model they used then wouldn't work this time for a 218.

Well it wouldn't work now and didn't work then."

Excuse me - "It was legal then, but it wouldn't work now" is what he said.

How did YOU hear, "It was illegal then but we did it anyway?" That's NOT what he said! Sheesh!

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,

The WB won't review anything that is not submitted by the county. The Supervisors won’t vote on anything that is not submitted by Paavo Ogren and his handpicked(no bid) (for profit) consulting engineer.

Did you miss my statement regarding treatment outside the PZ?

Didn't you read the RFQ that seeks bidders to design and build a $25M "secondary" effluent treatment facility which can be expanded to a teriary level(how long will that take and how much will it cost to study, design, bid and build it)?

Do you understand what "secondary" effluent is?
Hint, it isn't tertiary and can contain in excess of 10 mg/l N.

ECOfluid's Upflow Sludge Blanket Filtration (USBF) design is a very robust and reliable biological process.
It is efficient, economical and simple to operate.

The many benefits and advantages quick expose the disadvantages of the other treatment technologies the county's consulting engineer's study revealed.

I look forward to the side by side comparison of ECOfluid for treatment and E/One for collection with what the county has come up with.

Without wanting to sound repetitive(;-0)...

As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

Regarding all things sewerish at the SLO County level, my goal is:
Holding those who want to serve the public, accountable, in a lawful and fiduciary manner using the power of internet technology. Pursuit of happiness while thinking of those who will come after me first.

I Love LO!

I'm in favor of cost efficient solutions, you seem to be in favor of something else.

Next.

Mark Low
602.740.7975 voice
480.464.0405 facsimile
Mark@NOwastewater.com
P.O. Box 1355 Mesa, Arizona 85211
Spero Meliora "I aspire to greater things"

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote; Um, can you translate this? "Pursuit of happiness while thinking of those who will come after me first." Huh?

Pursuit of happiness…Think of these words as “Liberty”. They are covered in the Preamble of our country’s Constitution.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

If you haven’t read it recently, perhaps you should. Here is a link for an e-copy http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Preamble

“while thinking of those who will come after me first” refers to “our” Posterity
posterity n. 1. Future generations. 2. All of a person's descendants. [Lat. posteritas.] Source

I hope this helps.

Next.

Unknown said...

mark... "If the State won't review anything not submitted by the County...", then it appears you are out of luck... or perhaps you are going at this all wrong...???

One thing is clear, you are heavily lobbying this blog when you should be in Sacramento... this blog (nor will Ron Crawford's) will not sway the State Water Board...

As a business owner, you should know what the rules are and who sets them... generally not going to find out either through a blog of marginally interested folks... particularily when you overload your postings with sales pitch after sales pitch... and you have another strike against you through your participation with the Reclamator and then your about-face... In short, you lost most of your credibility...

You also show an ego that may serve in some other industry, but when you think you are impressing with quotes such as: "I aspire to greater things", you have simply lowered yourself to the other failed ego's of the post re-call Los Osos CSD...

"If the State won't review anything not submitted by the County...", then either get to know the State system or find another market... It apparently is not going to be in The Valley of the Bears....

Watershed Mark said...

Thanks MIKE.

Your understanding, perspective and opinion(s) are so valuable to me.

Spero Meliora is my family's motto.

Unknown said...

It's a good motto to live by... but also recognize it might be wise to select the greater things to aspire to... selling a better water filter in Los Osos might not be the best greater thing at this time... trying to sell anything on this blog will probably not be the best bang for your buck...

Frank said...

Mark,

Take off and put down that 'Treatment Plant Sales Methods for Dummies' tape that you listen to and go have a donut. Might do you some good. The annoying ringing in our ears and eyes from your used-car treatment plant sales pitch is going nowhere.

Watershed Mark said...

Boys,
It's called "Blog(m)arketing".

Everyone has an opnion...You are entitled to yours.

Frank, doughnuts are for cops...;-)

Ann's Land is a terrific resource that provides a written record.

I'm looking forward to seeing it elevated even further. So stay tuned...

Unknown said...

It's your head, but don't see you making any real progress continueing to butt the blog wall...

As far as this being a written record of any legal consequence to changing the State Water Board, think you're wasteing your time... no legally binding votes or decisions have been made on this or any other blog... but then you aspire to greater things, maybe you will be the second to walk on water...

Realistic1 said...

wm -

I'd bet Ann would prefer you use your own blog for marketing your product.

Why don't you? Does nobody read it? That would be my guess...

GetRealOsos said...

Shark,

You say,
"You seem to react rather strongly to a side comment I made. Let's pretend I didn't write that and get back to the main issue I raised ..."

Well, that's because you said the county is spending over $6 million and I say that we in the PZ will pay that - not the County. Big difference. You say it's just a side comment - hmmmm.

I wasn't addressing anything about Julie. I'm simply pointing out your error and/or twist about the money.

GetRealOsos said...

Sewertoons,

Jon Seitz danced around the subject of the 218 vote at the CSD meeting. He said it wouldn't work now (their financial model). WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHAT HAS CHANGED?!? I'LL WAIT FOR THAT ANSWER. If it wouldn't work now, it wouldn't have worked then either!

The law hasn't changed Lynette. A 218 vote was required by law. Period. The recalled CSD skipped the law and want to cover up for that.

GetRealOsos said...

Sewertoons,

Seitz did not say anything was legal.

He simply DID NOT USE THE WORD "LEGAL".

Get your facts straight, "Twist Sister"!

Unknown said...

...so getrealosos, we take it you are still fighting for the CSD to somehow take back the sewer project...

Have you yet considered the direction the CSD is going after the first of the year...??? No sewer talk chum...!!! Only how to get back on a financial footing and resolving the bankruptcy ...!!!!

NO SEWER TALK...!!!! The project is in the hands of the County and no matter how upset you get, this CSD will NOT ever get the project returned... It no longer matters whether there was or wasn't a required 218... That discussion is dead and gone... only you seem to want to continue that fight... too bad, so sad... you lost...!!!!

Maybe you and osos change should share the meds... Quick and final boys, quick and final...!!!!

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

getreal,

The State has never had a SRF loan go bad -- ever -- until Los Osos. Maybe that changed the rules? Go talk to the State - the money comes through the State from the Feds. Hey why didn't THEY sue the State for misdirecting the money?

OR, maybe you are simply WRONG!?

Mike is right -GET OVER IT! We - thankfully - have passed our 218, we ARE getting a sewer. Whine all you like, It will change nothing.

Los Osos could have avoided that $6 million, the bankruptcy, the CDO's, the loss of face -- all of it back in '83, if they had said yes to a sewer. I didn't live here then, did you?

I voted NO 4 times when I did live here in 2005. I lost. So now I get to pay for the old project, the bankruptcy AND the new sewer. What did you do in 2005? Haven't you noticed that with each NO for a sewer the price goes up?

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

ws mark says:
"Didn't you read the RFQ that seeks bidders to design and build a $25M "secondary" effluent treatment facility which can be expanded to a teriary level(how long will that take and how much will it cost to study, design, bid and build it)?

"

"Do you understand what 'secondary' effluent is?"

Yes I did and yes I do. That is why I was a fan of Tri-W. Tertiary treatment, the water never left our basin, was to filter into the LOWER aquifer at Broderson, AND the end product was controlled by the CSD.

We will be getting less for more due to the lies fed to the Community at the recall.

That's life in Los Osos.

I fully support the County because I KNOW that they can deliver something, despite you and despite getreal. In truth it is more fair this way in that all water customers will share the cost.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote:
Yes I did and yes I do.

Then why did you write:
The County won't go with anything that doesn't meet the Water Board's requirements. Where is that 10 years of data showing 7mg/L nitrogen or less after processing? Why talk if you don't have that? If you had it wouldn't you want to show us? You keep ignoring my request to see it. It could cost 10¢, but without that it is useless to us.

???
It isn't logical.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote:We - thankfully - have passed our 218, we ARE getting a sewer.

Lynette,
The word sewer does not appear in "218".
The words community collection system and treatment do.

As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

Why hasn't www.eone.com been reviewed and proved "out" yet?
Same goes for www.ECOfluid.com.

Answer: They cannot be "proven" out.
Wanna bet?

Unknown said...

mark... First, would you mind explaining your "position" or office within the ECOfluid Systems, Inc. company...

ECOfluid Systems, Inc.
209-5589 Byrne Road, Burnaby, BC, CANADA, V5J 3J1
Tel: 604-662-4544
Fax: 604-662-4564
E-mail: info@ECOfluid.com

Frank said...

Mark's position? no less than Chief Founding Father Quotation Relations Liason and Chairman of the Blabbering Salesmen and Product Glorification Committee.

Resume of Experience: Former Sales Creep and Con the Public Front Man for Da Wecklamator.

Previous Results: Spent Endless Hours Pushing a System No One in their Right Mind Would Buy and Garnered about $23.57 in Sales in a Year of Concentrated Mindless Salesmanship. Awarded 2007 San Luis Obispo County Honor for Most Wasted Money Injected into the County Advertising and Two Years Running San Luis Obispo Sales Comedy Routine Platinum Winner.

On the Plus Side: Has Proven not to be a Danger Thus Far to Unsuspecting Widows and Orphans.

Frank said...

oops, left out the most important award, to be announced shortly.

drumroll please..........

2008 Blowhard of the Year!!!!! Go Mark, Go Mark, Just Post Baby!!!!

GetRealOsos said...

Mike (oops, I mean Crapkiller),

You say, "we take it you are still fighting for the CSD to somehow take back the sewer project..." and "It no longer matters whether there was or wasn't a required 218... That discussion is dead and gone..."

No, Mike, I am looking for a Federal Investigation (Justice Dept.) from 1983 until the present (that includes the County's illegal 218) on the fraud that has occurred and that involves the legal 218 vote that the recalled CSD did not have. It's all relevant ya know. We'll see in the end who the loser is.

You were a fool then, and you are a fool now.

This is not about the current CSD. After all, it was your board who committed crimes, and it was your board who caused this board to file for bankruptcy PROTECTION. But that was YOUR PLAN all along...

This CSD might have not been the brightest light bulbs on the planet, but they did not (knowingly) break the laws like you did...their crime? ... listening to the bad advice of Biggs and McPherson...(and Julie's agenda for Jeff of course).

GetRealOsos said...

Oh Poor Sewertoons,

You just don't get it.

See my post above to Crapkiller.

The 218 law never changed. It does matter. All the fraud DOES matter.

It is your choice to promote the illegal activity that has taken place. Obviously, you have a stake in this (or Lou does) -- who knows...

P.S. The LO "bad" loan, did not change the law, but I'm sure the state will make certain that every loan now does have a dedicated repayment.

AND, I'm tired of repeating myself, but SAM BLAKESLEE AND THE RWQCB HAVE STATED THAT THE CDO'S WERE ONLY A INCENTIVE TO PASS THE 218. PERIOD. Everyone knows that now, so why can't you get it through your head?!?

GetRealOsos said...

Frank,

You sure seem to be Shark's angry side. I love it. Why would anyone be able to defend Shark and his past in Virginia so quickly and completely?!

Hmmmmm.....

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

How about this getreal -- come back to us WITH SOMETHING when YOU get that lawsuit going. You just repeat what you think is wrong endlessly and never seem to have a plan for how you intend to get that "federal investigation" going. It isn't just going to happen because you blog a lot.

At the very least, come back with some new material, OK? Thanks in advance.

Unknown said...

Sorry getrealosos...you still don't have a clue about who I am...

With all your toy box investigative tools, you remain at a loss and so instead, will attempt to create as much diversion with the community that you think you can... but now, no one is listening to your lies and enuendo... You shot your load, were found out to be nothing positive and now you are simply an angry protester with nothing to protest...

You will never see a Federal "investigation", unless it's of YOU and your spying on your neighbors and your income taxes...!!! Let's be really clear about that...!!!! YOU have failed to "expose" anything about anyone...!!!!! YOU are nothing less than a fraud and a liar....!!!!!

You are wallowing about in the same cess pool as osos change... Nothing but vicious jerks who didn't get your own way so you think you can pour your anger out on the community who disagrees with you...!!!! YOU have brought nothing positive to the table, only your hate and anger... So have fun playing in your own foul stench, but the community is laughing at you...!!!!! WE are getting back to setting the LOCSD on a legal financial footing and backing the County in bringing the much needed and much delayed sewer to Los Osos....!!!!

GetRealOsos said...

Sewertoons,

There is no lawsuit needed. We have a new President now and changes in the Federal Government. Finally. Things will change!

Unknown said...

LOL.... Whata bet...??? The only real change will be the size of the increase in our income taxes....

GetRealOsos said...

Oh Mike...I mean Crapkiller,

You're going after me on taxes? Is that like you went after Ann on her properties? This is all you have? Go after people's jobs? You are the unhappy one. You blog at 4:30 in the morning till late in the evening. Why?

You say that I have hate and anger. You bet! I hate corruption. I hate the fraud.

There will be change. Real change. You are not out of the woods just because you've got the DA on your side.

Unknown said...

You owe CK an apology... She's a very nice person I'm pleased to be associated with....but I'm not she...

You really are a joke getrealosos...!!! A nasty, angry, fraud and liar...!!!! Keep playing PI, maybe one day you'll find out who YOU really are...

I have no idea what you are talking about when you mention Ann... and when I chose to blog is none of your business, I could care less when you blog, I just find what you spew to be so fraudulent that a response seems needed...

In the meantime, keep the meds handy, you are going to need them shortly.... Remember, Quick and Final, quick and final....!!!!

Unknown said...

getrealosos: A last thought before I go watch the NASCAR race... I find your mixing of local and national considerations a bit of a reach... It appears you have absolutely no knowledge of laws and government, certainly have no idea of what you are trying to say... Your comments are so confusing as to be meaningless, and less every time you post...

Osos Change said...

Yes, "quick and final" is wishing death on someone and you've said this numerous times and have made several threats.

You are continuously violating California Penal Code § 422, which reads as follows:

"Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out, which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made, is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own safety or for his or her immediate family's safety, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison."

Shark Inlet said...

GetReal,

From your comments, you write as if the County will still be able to charge Los Osos property owners for the $6M they've spent if the board of supervisors votes not to accept the project. I don't understand how this is possible. Could you explain?

Secondly, in your comment to Frank you suggest that it would be difficult to quickly and completely defend me against false charges. I guess this means that you feel Frank's defense was complete and that I don't feel that I had done anything wrong back before 1998. And ... if this is the case ... why the heck were you making such a big deal about it earlier and why have you not apologized?

On the other hand, if that is not what you meant, you seem to be suggesting that no one would reasonably want to quickly and completely defend me against false charges. Frank found something online that addressed each and every one of the false charges. Did you not read what he provided us via cut-n-paste? Cut-n-paste isn't hard. And searching for truth isn't wrong.

I can understand your beef with Frank ... but your criticism of him for defending belittles both me and you.

Watershed Mark said...

Mike said...
mark... First, would you mind explaining your "position" or office within the ECOfluid Systems, Inc. company...

MIKE,
Why are you asking?

Unknown said...

...hmmm, I've never, nor would I wish you any harm... I merely point out that in YOUR anger, you put yourself at great risk to a stroke...!!!! What I has said, is that when you do have that stroke, that it be quick and final... I wouldn't want you to lay around in a vegetative state and cause the taxpayers to have to pay for medical treatment...

...so it still appears in your rush to spin everything you disagree with into a threat, you miss the intent...very much the way you have spun many of YOUR threats, lies and enuendo...YOU are simply too blind with rage over having lost the sewer project as well as control of the LOCSD, that you are trying to make YOUR stroke my problem... Sorry, it's all YOURS.... and I sure don't want to pay any more tax than I already do.. so please try to keep it Quick and Final for all of us who won't miss you but hate paying more taxes than we need to.... Q&F.......!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the meantime, keep taking those meds, we all like the laughs you bring to this blog....!!!!

Watershed Mark said...

Frank:

As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

I agree with Paavo on this, why don't you?

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,
When government spends taxpayers and rate payers "pay".

Unknown said...

MARK,
Why are you not answering...?

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

MIKE,

I represent ECOfluid.

You think that I am trying "sell" you end of a collection pipe treatment tchnology, which is incorrect.

I am promulgating information about the technolgy so that you will be better informed.

I am simply doing the work that the county's consulting engineer didn't.

NWRI suggested MBR in their peer review.
I guess it was simply was over looked in all the rush...

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

Um ... if the County BOS refuses the Los Osos wastewater project ... then the taxpayers ... across the whole County ... will be paying that $6M. It won't be $6M spread across 15k ($400 per person) people, it will be $6M spread across 250k people ($24 per person).

Sure ... but the key point here is this ... it is only if the County takes the project that those who tie into the community sewer who end up paying that $6M. If the County says "no go", then the County as a whole eats the cost.

Watershed Mark said...

Frank said...
Mark's position? no less than Chief Founding Father Quotation Relations Liason and Chairman of the Blabbering Salesmen and Product Glorification Committee.

As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,

Your thinking that wasteful spending spread out over every tax/rate payer is what has Califoria $17B in the red.

Point is, waste is waste, but then I remember your are into statistics where there are no real points...

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

If the SLO BOS refuse the project then the CSD can get a system in place in for about $50M.

That collection system would not leak and the treatment would be membrane and tertiary.

Good Point.

Why didn't the county's consulting engineer studying this.
Why don't they?

I would think that the SLO BOS will be interested as should the people who will acually paying for it.

As Paavo Ogren stated in August 2007- If there is a technology that is significantly less expensive”, “then that technology becomes the new standard and all others fall away”.

Osos Change said...

Yes, "quick and final" is wishing death on someone and you've said this numerous times and have made several threats.

You are continuously violating California Penal Code § 422, which reads as follows:

"Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out, which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made, is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own safety or for his or her immediate family's safety, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison."

Shark Inlet said...

Um ... Mark ...

If you want to define the $6M the County has spent so far as waste, fine, but I don't want anyone else to think that I am branding this spending as wasteful.

Your comments suggest that you view any spreading of the costs as wasteful. Perhaps I am wrong, but if you have this view (as many Republicans and Libertarians do), I will simply disagree. In many many cases, the greater public good can be achieved by spreading the wealth around. Simply put, user fees are a horrible way of achieving maximum social good. Anyone who has taken and passed a basic economics class would know this.

Lastly, your final jab that in statistics "there are not real points" reveals that you have little appreciation of the scientific method or of data. I would suggest that only fools brag about their ignorance and are unwilling to spend the time to learn something useful.

Unknown said...

Geez osos change, you need to lighten up or you will have that stroke this evening...

My attorney is still laughing at you... said you are misinterpreting as usual...

Maybe I should ask if you have ever had any medical condition that reading this blog would cause you to blow out a blood vessel...??? Are you at risk of having a dibilitating or fatal stroke caused by over-excitement...??? If you are, I sincerely apologize...but if you are merely getting angry, then O&F, quick and final.... Please have your doctor respond for you, until.... We're laughing at you, certainly not with you...!!!!

Osos Change said...

You don't have an attorney.

Yes, "quick and final" is wishing death on someone and you've said this numerous times and have made several threats.

You are continuously violating California Penal Code § 422, which reads as follows:

"Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out, which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made, is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own safety or for his or her immediate family's safety, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison."

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote:I would suggest that only fools brag about their ignorance and are unwilling to spend the time to learn something useful.

This really is at the heart of the county's consulting engineer's study of leaky sewerage and low quality treatment.

Ignoring a technology that is significantly less expensive” is "wasteful".

"Ignoring" technology that doesn't leak and that provides very high quality, reliable and cost efficient treatment may actually qualify as something more than "wasteful".

Time will tell.

4:06 PM, November

Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote:I would suggest that only fools brag about their ignorance and are unwilling to spend the time to learn something useful.

Especially when being paid by the hours to "study" collection and treatment techology and to produce reports of their findings.

Great point Steve!

Unknown said...

Well that was a fun afternoon... Congratulations to Jimmie Johnson, 2008 NASCAR Champion...!!!!

Now to the osos' twin sisters, osos change and getrealosos... enjoy this life and try to get over YOUR anger... you probably can't, but that's your problem...

Q&F... Q&F...the way you can help the community save on taxes...!!!!

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha....!!!!

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, we had a perfectly good TERTIARY system designed for us. As the owner of the house prior to me did not pay up front, I am paying on my taxes for the next 17 or so years for the property and design and permits for this plant. I would be perfectly happy if that was rebid and built.

Failing that, I DO TRUST THE COUNTY to bring us the best value WWTF possible that will keep the no-sewer-in-eco-clothing-set from a green-pitchfork-and-bio-torch rebellion. I understand their constraints. I am sick of you dissing the County. Don't you think you might have lost your cred with them when you backed the wrong horse with such a vehemence? Did you ever find out of Mr. Wrecklamator had the data the WB requires?

As for your pet technology? - Where is the data to prove that it works to the Water Board's satisfaction? I assume since you want US to push for it, you keep blabbing about it HERE. If you want us to do that job for you, you need to convince us to do so. A good start would be to provide that data that I have been asking for. Your response? SILENCE. That makes me think that data does not exist. So how do you expect us to support you? Your insults should inspire us to help? Try a Psychology 101 class for further information on that tact and how to change your approach. Learn something useful.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

ws mark says:
"If the SLO BOS refuse the project then the CSD can get a system in place in for about $50M."

In your dreams. They aren't going to refuse it and the CSD is teetering on insolvency.

Watershed Mark said...

The TRI-W MBR Design @$50/gallon may have been one of the most expensive municipal systems ever offered, it also was the most energy intensive.
Please tell us “ the constraints” for the county as you understand them.
You never did produce the law which mandated 10 years worth of data. Hmmm…
The ECOfluid USBF (variation on the extended aeration) has a very long history (over 35 years) of producing quality 10/10/10 results.
Why do you ignore the fact that the county’s consulting engineer hasn’t produced any test results for treatment systems they recommended?
I understand you concede that gravity sewers leak.
To my knowledge the WB has not reviewed a system for the county yet. If they have it isn’t public record.
The State of California is teetering on insolvency.

Next.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Los Osos is "special," as it has thwarted every sewer proposed, so I'm not sure what "law" is necessary. That is a fight YOU can have with the WB, not me. However, Tri-W with its MBR technology, met those WB requirements.

I understand the constraints the County faces to be primarily psychological, due to the damaged condition of the collective Los Osos psyche, because of the pressure and lies of the no-sewer crowd.

I concede that ALL collection systems, particularly at the laterals to the house, could leak. I concede that a tiny grinder pump tank will not meet my needs in a 3-day, or maybe even less, power blackout, and that a regular 1500 gallon step tank, concrete or fiberglass, will have impacts on my yard and pocketbook that will be a tough pill to swallow, but I will agree to it if I have to.

Now, maybe you can explain 10/10/10 results to us.

Watershed Mark said...

Lyneiie wrote: Los Osos is "special," as it has thwarted every sewer proposed, so I'm not sure what "law" is necessary.

I Love LO.

Lynette wrote: I understand the constraints the County faces to be primarily psychological, due to the damaged condition of the collective Los Osos psyche, because of the pressure and lies of the no-sewer crowd.

Are you serious? Maybe the county et al could "Try a Psychology 101 class for further information on that tact and how to change "their" approach...

Lynette wrote: Now, maybe you can explain 10/10/10 results to us.

Lynette,

It is because you have little, if any, formal knowledge of "the industry" why the "expression" 10/10/10 stumped you.

These numbers represent the test result for BOD/TSS/Total Nitrogen found in the effluent.

BOD -Bological Oxygen Demand
TSS - Total Suspended Solids
Total Nitrogen- Total Nitrogen

Lynette, I appreciate yor interest in wastewater. Perhaps you could take a class to understand how the constituents discussed above relate to the health of a particular receiving body of water.

I want to thank you for all your questions and suggestions as the are very interesting and illuminating.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,
You are incorrect about all colection systems leaking.

Watershed Mark said...

Without a formal review of any technolgy you are left with impressions created from fear and loathing.

If the power goes out for three days you wastewater flow will be theleast of your problems.

No dishwasher, cloths washing machine, would you actally be living as you do with power?

Think about it.

Watershed Mark said...

I understand you want to stick with the county's study process.

Do you really want that process not to consider technology that is superiour and saves money?

The money it saves could mean the clothes on somone's back one day.

Maybe even your own...

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Well, you FINALLY came out with it. For tertiary treatment - total nitrogen 10mg/L - that is what you are saying, right? Fine for secondary and sprayfields, (ag reuse or in-lieu is WAY in the future) but we can get a cheaper system for that.

The Water Board determines the limits on nitrogen for Los Osos. Why don't you go and bug them?

mark says:
"You are incorrect about all colection systems leaking."

Guess you didn't read the Flows and Loads Tech Memo. It's on the County website. Read it, learn something. You might also check to see if your browser supports "check spelling while typing."

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,

10/10/10 is Title 22 compliant when disinfection is added.(you might want to Google it, you could learn something) Title 22 “is where the puck will be”…

The WB determines limits everywhere in California.

If a cheaper system can be had for secondary and spray fields as you suggest, why did the county budget $25M for a secondary treatment facility that "could be" upgraded to tertiary?

Remember, I can provide technology that will "do" less than 4 mg/l TN tertiary for $7.4M.

The math is inescapable...

So I see you concede the 10 years data and the 7 mg/l TN.

We are making great progress.

I appreciate all your suggestions and questions!
They are so very helpful to me.

Here's one for the record:
Why wouldn't anyone responsible for choosing water reclamation technology want to ignore a "system" which provides consistent tertiary water at a fraction of the cost?

In SLOCO BOS's case choosing inferior treatment technology will cost the citizen tens of millions of dollars.

I read the F & L memo, it is incomplete and badly skewed.

Your statement -…“but we can get a cheaper system for that.” Is proof you do not have enough information to achieve an informed decision.

Watershed Mark said...

Your statement -…“but we can get a cheaper system for that.” Is proof you do not have enough information to achieve an informed decision.

Whose fault is that?

Next.

Watershed Mark said...

Correction:
Here's one for the record:
Why WOULD anyone responsible for choosing water reclamation technology WANT to ignore a "system" which provides consistent tertiary water at a fraction of the cost?

When there is something better "as Paavo Ogren thinks- everything else falls away"...

There is even law which supportshis position. See here:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=64225225310+3+0+0&WAISa
ction=retrieve

20133. (a) A county, with approval of the board of supervisors, may utilize an alternative procedure for bidding on construction projects in the county in excess of two million five hundred thousand dollars ($2,500,000) and may award the project using either the lowest responsible bidder or by best value.
(b) (1) It is the intent of the Legislature to enable counties to utilize design-build for buildings and county sanitation wastewater treatment facilities. It is not the intent of the Legislature to authorize this procedure for other infrastructure, including, but not limited to, streets and highways, public rail transit, or water resources facilities and infrastructures.
(2) The Legislature also finds and declares that utilizing a design-build contract requires a clear understanding of the roles and responsibilities of each participant in the design-build process.
(3) If the board of supervisors elects to proceed under this section, the board of supervisors shall establish and enforce for design-build projects a labor compliance program containing the requirements outlined in Section 1771.5 of the Labor Code, or it shall contract with a third party to operate a labor compliance program containing the requirements outlined in Section 1771.5 of the Labor Code. This requirement shall not apply to any project where the county or the design-build entity has entered into any collective bargaining agreement or agreements that bind all of the contractors performing work on the projects.
(c) As used in this section:
(1) "Best value" means a value determined by objective criteria related to price, features, functions, and life-cycle costs.

The question then becomes one of integrity: Do the supervisors/people's elected represetatives (who will ultimately pay) or an appointed bureaucrat (Paavo Ogren) and his hand selected private business who may have a potential conflict of interest, determine the "objective criteria"?

I regret you feel sick about my pointing out the obvious.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

Oh mark, give it up already!

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,
Take some time off, you sound and I heard, "look like", you could use it.

I'm just beginning to "hit" my stride, so I won't quit. Never have, never will.

Technology makes it even more possible for me to continue.

You do what you want, I'll do the same, it's still a free country. May God continue to Bless America!



Next.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve wrote:I would suggest that only fools brag about their ignorance and are unwilling to spend the time to learn something useful.

Especially when being paid by the hour(s) to "study" collection and treatment techology and to produce reports of their findings.

Great point Steve!

Shark Inlet said...

Mark,

In the last 24 hours, you're clocking about 40% of the comments and well over 60% of the total number of words written. Much of those comments don't seem to be "conversational" but instead repetitious.

I am reminded of your writing last Spring when you told us that there was proof that the Reclamator would work for Los Osos and that the laws said that if someone were to use one, they could not be fined by the RWQCB. If I recall correctly, the evidence you presented then didn't resolve the situation and your claims weren't accepted as proven.

Similarly now when you write things like "where is the gravity memo?" and "why hasn't option ABCDE been studied?" we wonder what your point is.

Because the EIR is finished it is too late to add something else into the mix. If you wanted a particular technology to be addressed during the TAC/EIR process you would have to have made that point before the process started and if the technology being proposed wasn't already well known, those advocating that technology would have had to submit documentation to answer specific questions.

As someone who tends to write a lot here (and some would say too much), I do have to agree with those suggesting you put your more voluminous and technical comments into your own blog. You could provide references here to that content, but please know that beating a dead horse doesn't really attract people to your point of view.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,

Wisdom begins in wonder.
Socrates

A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers.
Plato

The TAC committee ignored technology.

A nod is as good as a wink to a blind man.

There is a comment and review period one the EIR is "published".

You make alot of assumptions for a guy who makes a living teaching statistics.

I appreciate your questions and suggestions.
They mean a great deal to me.

Watershed Mark said...

Steve,

Please be so good as to cut and paste my words you use in support of your statement:

I am reminded of your writing last Spring when you told us that there was proof that the Reclamator would work for Los Osos and that the laws said that if someone were to use one, they could not be fined by the RWQCB.

GetRealOsos said...

Sewertoons,

If Golden State Water has the technology to remove nitrates (and have already increased rates to do so) they (in a recession/depression) WHY would you want to put in the most expensive sewer in the world AND HAVE JUST 4,500 homeowners to pay for the whole thing (when the entire district benefits)?????

It's the most stupid thing I've ever heard!!!

A huge unnecessary public works project that will tax hundreds out of their homes????


SHARK,

Wanna take a crack at my question? I'm very curious!!!!

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

getreal, I doubt that this will qualify for the most expensive sewer in the world, but yes, it is expensive. Maybe you did not see today's article in the Trib. Only 1/3 of the water for recharge will actually come back into town - that is the only water that the project will pay for.

The rest? Well, looks like all three water purveyors will have to cook up a plan if they want to use any of it. See, that way EVERYBODY gets to pay for it! Meanwhile - off it goes into the ground - NOT over our aquifer, or into the air, or into grass which will be mowed and removed. Will it be more expensive to recover it some day in the future? Well, of course!

Because there was rumors of liquefaction (give me a break), because there (ha-ha) "was a plan," because the no-sewer agenda found these fancy new clothes to parade around in, the old project (which kept the water in the basin, in the control of the CSD and would be tertiary treatment for less money and put water back into the aquifer) was killed and we will now get to pay more money for less!

The sign "We delay, we pay never before held such meaning, don't you agree?

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

ws mark, why do you think pocket sewers would work in a community that shunned having any sewer in town? If they didn't want one near the library, would they want one next to their house? Or was that, in your opinion, just a result of agitation programmed to stop a project (or so far, any project) that some did not want?

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

ws mark says:
"There is a comment and review period one the EIR is "published"."

Well then - have at it. Bet what you are coming up with has been addressed in it already.

Watershed Mark said...

Well then, I need a copy of the EIR.

I heard it was on line but all I found was this: http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/AssetFactory.aspx?did=18506

Mission Statement: To evaluate and develop a wastewater treatment system for Los Osos, in cooperation with the community water purveyors, to solve the Level III water resource shortage and groundwater pollution, in an environmentally sustainable and cost effective manner, while respecting community preferences and promoting participatory government, and addressing individual affordability challenges to the greatest extent possible.

As you seem to have read it would you point me to a copy?

You do want me to read it, don't you?

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote:Sewertoons said...
ws mark, why do you think pocket sewers would work in a community that shunned having any sewer in town? If they didn't want one near the library, would they want one next to their house? Or was that, in your opinion, just a result of agitation programmed to stop a project (or so far, any project) that some did not want?


Scalping is for sensible citizens who need their water.

ECOfluid's USBF systems are odorless and don't make any noise, which makes them great neighbors.

Didn't I send you the PowerPoint?

Watershed Mark said...

Why would the county have a Q&A on a report that hasn't been releaed yet?

Watershed Mark said...

Recent News and Events
November 7, 2008: Public Invitation for Town Hall Meeting on Draft Environmental Impact Report

November 7, 2008: Release of final technical memo on Flows and Loads

November 5, 2008: Notice of Draft RFQs and non-mandatory informational meeting on 11/14/08

November 4, 2008: Draft Design Build RFQ's Documents

November 4, 2008: Update on the Los Osos Wastewater Treatment Project, accept preliminary drafts of two design-build Request For Qualifications (RFQ) for treatment facility and collection system and direct staff to release draft RFQ's for comment by the construction and surety industries, and receive and file the Independent Advisory Panel peer review from the National Water Research Institute (NWRI) . Watch the meeting for the D-1 Item and read the staff report. Power Point Presentation

November 3, 2008: Release of final technical memo on Decentralized Treatment

October 27, 2008: Release of the Final Report from the NWRI Independent Peer Review Panel

Seems having a Q&A before the release of vthe report is putting the cart beforec the horse...

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

The EIR is supposed to be online Tuesday. Don't know what time. There is a 90-day period to respond to the EIR. PLENTY of time.

Tri-W was odorless and mostly buried. It was still reviled.

Now, I'll ask again, why do you think that people will want to have a pocket sewer as a neighbor given what I have told you above.

Explain how scalping restores water to the LOWER aquifer.

Was the output 10mg/L? How does that jive with the WB wanting 7 or less?

Personal question - do you ever sell anyone on anything? You don't seem to have quite gotten the knack for doing so in Los Osos.

alabamasue said...

Sewertoons-
I doubt Mark has ever been successful at selling anything. He seems to have the same business model as his ex-BFF Murphy. " If you don't like what I'm selling, then you're just STUPID!" Works well, huh? I think it's time for Mark to get a real job; he has WAY too much time on his hands, hence his constant and pointless blogging.

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,

You are not "retaining" the information you have received from me, so I understand your constant state of confusion.

I know that you are having a very difficult time trying to hang on to technology that is not as good or economical as what I am representing.

As I mentioned before you don't have to worry about it, because others will be deciding for you..

Don't you have the least bit of curiosity as to why the county participated in a poorly written article that discussed the EIR which was not released.

If this is what passes for governance and reporting and is acceptable to you, then you will deserve everything that kind of "behavior" breeds.

I will not accept it and shall continue my hobby of blogging here and working there. I see the opportunity. I’m sorry you see something else.



Please tell "us" what you mean by "pocket sewers", I'm sure the class will appreciate your take...
I know I will.

Watershed Mark said...

ABS,
Why so bitter?
Technology provides for many venues and for limitless opportunities to learn, earn and turn ideas into “pay dirt”.

I’m so sorry you judge others using your own looking glass.
Put down that cup of tea and come outside of you “box”.

It is going to be a beautiful day.
I Love LO!

Watershed Mark said...

ABS,
You shouldn't call Lynette "stupid"...I would say she is "misguided”.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, please reread alabamasue's posting. You don't seem to have understood it.

mark, keep blogging if you like, but be aware, no one here has supported you and you just seem to keep pulling the noose around your own neck tighter. For your own safety, you might want to back off.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote: For your own safety, you might want to back off.

Lynette,
Have you just threatened me with bodily harm?
It looks like I am making progess.

I'm not looking for "support".

A return to first principles in a republic is sometimes caused by the simple virtues of one man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example.
Niccolo Machiavelli

An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot.
Thomas Paine

Next.

Watershed Mark said...

I just checked http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/PW/LOWWP.htm

There has been no posting of the EIR, yet.
I guess the county crew don't want to provide too much time for reading a report it took 9 months to write beforethey take questions about it.

Are the prople getting what vthey are paying for in this sewerage study process?

If no technology other than gravity was studied how can that "report" be considered "ethical or complete"?

Why wasn't MBR reviewed as suggested by NWRI?

These are just a few questions that must be answered sooner or later.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

The meeting is simply to INTRODUCE the EIR. Most are not familiar with reading them, and a primer on what is in there is a huge service to the community. It will provide the basis for informed questions later. We have 90 days to respond to this thing, way longer than is usual.

Stop dissing the County!!! They have been incredibly HELPFUL and THOROUGH in this process.

The EIR from the old MBR PROJECT is in this one. I guess since the Community POSSIBLY prefers it out of town, that expense can be looked at later by the water purveyors who will share equally in the cost. Right now, that remaining water may NOT come back in and secondary is enough for what the needs are now.

You fail to address the questions I bring up regarding "little scalping plants" throughout the town. That is what you sent to my e-mail address, that is I presume, what you think will work here.

alabamasue said...

'toons-
Mark understands exactly what I wrote, he just likes to twist words to try to "stir the pot". Childish, really.
If I were the president of ECOfluid, I don't think I'd appreciate someone like Low "representing" my company. Kind of the kiss of death, don't you think?

Unknown said...

You have a very clear picture alabamasue...

Like his sales campaign to sell the Reclamator as the great savior, he really knows nothing about marketing... maybe Shamwow could use him...???? Hey camera guy, it holds 21 times it's weight in water.... :-)

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette,
Please explain to the class what a "little scalping plant" is. You brought it up and need to qualify it. If I wanted to share it with the blogheads I would have done it.
You received a blind copy of an email. If you are troubled I'll be happy to remove you from any future informational mailings, just let me know.

You presume too much. Do you think that LO/BP is the only community in need of sustainable solutions?
I believe it is better to light one candle than it is to curse the dark…

How is it that you alone know all this? (I thought you were working for the county)
Why would a outdated EIR be included in the county's current study? FYI EIR's have a "shelf life".

I'm not "dissing the county". I am asking albeit hard but reasonable questions and making reasonable points.
Why do you feel "dissed"?

So if secondary water is ok for now, why did you keep asking about the 10 years of >7mg/l TN results?
Where are those same results from the company who were paid to recommend/pitch their pet technologies?

What happens when the WB decides one day the secondary isn't good enough. D you want to go through this all over again?

Why not build a MBR tertiary facility now at a fraction of the cost of what the county is currently recommending?
Why is the county ignoring the NWRI Peer Review Panel recommendation regarding MBR Bioreactor?

Watershed Mark said...

ABS:
The opinions of a couple of malcontented anonymous bloggers don’t feed the bulldog, no matter how much you kiss them.

alabamasue said...

Mark-
I am not the least "malcontented." I am quite content with the county process. The last part of your sentence made no sense at all...

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

mark, if we go MBR, I am in favor of Tri-W. I doubt that will fly, but you never know. No big design project needed, it was approved by all relevant agencies and started being built. If we don't go MBR, then I am fine with whatever else gets built.

mark writes:
"So if secondary water is ok for now, why did you keep asking about the 10 years of >7mg/l TN results?
Where are those same results from the company who were paid to recommend/pitch their pet technologies?"

I am not the one requiring these results, it is the Water Board. It was for all the water coming out of Tri-W - that is why the CSD went for MBR - compact foot print with a tertiary level treatment, plus water stayed in the basin. Go ask the WB, why are you taking my word for anything?

Your second sentence - what do you mean? I can't make sense out of it.

If you hadn't wasted your time with Mr. Wrecklamator, maybe you would have gotten your materials to the County earlier and would have some credibility even if you have no tact. As it is, as has been explained at a Supervisor Bruce Gibson meeting, that if you have something not exactly outlined in the draft RFQ parameters you may submit it. But read carefully the bonding requirements and the team qualifications. Your Canadian company might not be able to put together the required group here on the Central Coast. If you are just touting a technology for someone else to build, maybe you are blogging in the wrong place.

I think you can best describe what your little scalping plant is - you sent the attachment. Maybe you would care to enlighten all of us? Maybe you can also explain how what you are hawking will recharge the lower aquifer?

Please give us the shelf life time span of an EIR.

mark, I have attended all but one or two of the TAC and County meetings. I am merely reporting on what I heard there. Anyone else who has attended may correct me here. Unlike some, I don't claim to be infallible.

Watershed Mark said...

mark, if we go MBR, I am in favor of Tri-W. I doubt that will fly, but you never know. No big design project needed, it was approved by all relevant agencies and started being built. If we don't go MBR, then I am fine with whatever else gets built.

The TRI-W was an energy hog that was $50.00+/gal and you are fine with it?
Membrane can be built “anywhere”. The technology is not site specific.

mark writes:
"So if secondary water is ok for now, why did you keep asking about the 10 years of >7mg/l TN results?
Where are those same results from the company who were paid to recommend/pitch their pet technologies?"

I am not the one requiring these results, it is the Water Board. It was for all the water coming out of Tri-W - that is why the CSD went for MBR - compact foot print with a tertiary level treatment, plus water stayed in the basin. Go ask the WB, why are you taking my word for anything?

Lynette, you are the one asking for the results.

Your second sentence - what do you mean? I can't make sense out of it.

Has Carollo designed anything but Gravity?
If not, what qualifies them to evaluate another system?

If you hadn't wasted your time with Mr. Wrecklamator, maybe you would have gotten your materials to the County earlier and would have some credibility even if you have no tact. As it is, as has been explained at a Supervisor Bruce Gibson meeting, that if you have something not exactly outlined in the draft RFQ parameters you may submit it. But read carefully the bonding requirements and the team qualifications. Your Canadian company might not be able to put together the required group here on the Central Coast. If you are just touting a technology for someone else to build, maybe you are blogging in the wrong place.

Actually ECOfluid was introduced by me in the fall of 2006 to Paavo Ogren, Carollo on May 5th, 2007 and I submitted information to Mark Hutchinson when he requested technology for the December 18, 2007: Environmental Impact Report Scoping Meeting presentation and Notice of Preparation.

15083. Early Public Consultation
Prior to completing the draft EIR, the Lead Agency may also consult directly with any person or organization it believes will be concerned with the environmental effects of the project. Many public agencies have found that early consultation solves many potential problems that would arise in more serious forms later in the review process. This early consultation may be called scoping. Scoping will be necessary when preparing an EIR/EIS jointly with a federal agency.
(a) Scoping has been helpful to agencies in identifying the range of actions, alternatives, mitigation measures, and significant effects to be analyzed in depth in an EIR and in eliminating from detailed study
http://ceres.ca.gov/topic/env_law/ceqa/guidelines/15080-15097_web.pdf

We do understand the process and the requirements.
Your comments are duly noted and appreciated.

I think you can best describe what your little scalping plant is - you sent the attachment. Maybe you would care to enlighten all of us?
…You brought it up and need to qualify it. If I wanted to share it with the blogheads I would have done it.

Maybe you can also explain how what you are hawking will recharge the lower aquifer?

My thoughts on balancing the water basin would detract from my current discussion. Why don’t we hold off on that subject until a more appropriate time. I will say that “voluntary” water conservation would help balance the basin. The recently released EIR “assumes” a county imposed effort.

Please give us the shelf life time span of an EIR. It seems I may have misspoke regarding California’s CEQA EIR having an actual shelf life. If I have, I apologize. California isn’t the only state I am working in, but thanks for keeping me honest.
However:
(5) Using a previously prepared EIR.
(e) Before using a draft prepared by another person, the Lead Agency shall subject the draft to the agency's own review and analysis. The draft EIR which is sent out for public review must reflect the independent judgment of the Lead Agency. The Lead Agency is responsible for the adequacy and objectivity of the draft EIR.
http://ceres.ca.gov/topic/env_law/ceqa/guidelines/15080-15097_web.pdf

The crater at TRI-W is living proof “agencies” are not infallible, either. A good object lesson to follow the CEQA guidelines more closely.
And as you see there is some interest regarding Limits in California… SB 1165 – (Kuehl) – EIR Expiration Date of Five Years – In Senate Appropriations Committee MAY 2008


mark, I have attended all but one or two of the TAC and County meetings. I am merely reporting on what I heard there. Anyone else who has attended may correct me here. Unlike some, I don't claim to be infallible.

Repeating or reporting?

No one is infallible. I agree.

Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky said...

All of the old EIR's (4 or 5, depending on how you count) were looked at for this EIR. Each was fine-tooth combed for whether or not the statements therein were relevant.

mark says:
"My thoughts on balancing the water basin would detract from my current discussion."

That discussion is being had now at the County level, and by all of us so get on board or miss the train.

mark says:
"The crater at TRI-W is living proof “agencies” are not infallible, either."

No, that was not the fault of agencies, but that of LIARS ($100/out of town) with their own persona agendas. Had they not LIED, we would not be blogging this topic right now. We would be flushing into a state-of-the-art wastewater treatment plant.

Watershed Mark said...

Lynette wrote:

That discussion is being had now at the County level, and by all of us so get on board or miss the train.

Where is the "written record" being posted or will just be stored away until a few hours before a "meeting" that discus the “findings”?
I don’t see anything as o scheduled meeting on the county’s website, so can you let me know when and where the “discussion being had now at the County level” is being had?

Lynette wrote:

No, that was not the fault of agencies, but that of LIARS ($100/out of town) with their own persona(l) agendas. Had they not LIED, we would not be blogging this topic right now. We would be flushing into a state-of-the-art wastewater treatment plant.

Sticks and stones…what good is accomplished by using a failed project to call someone or group names. Can you prove “they lied”?
Living in the past is squandering your “present”. Think about it.

How about the cost to build and run that “state-of-the-art wastewater treatment plant” in the park?
You never address the price of technology you want to use. Why not?