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Saturday, November 20, 2010

Love the Photo of the Bear



The County’s Sewer “Project Update” glossy flyer is in the mail.  It’s really pretty.  Lots of big photos taking up lots of space. Lovely huge big map in the middle showing the planned wastewater trement plan. And, of course, a reminder of the Town Hall Meeting on Monday, November 29, at the Los Osos Middle School, doors open at 6, meeting starts at 7.

And  the “vague” on the funding for the undeveloped properties is wonderful. We’re told that the Board is working to resolve water and habitat issues and that the undeveloped properties have not been assessed, but nowhere can I find a clear discussion of what may happen if undeveloped property can never be developed, or what benefit homeowners are getting by paying for undeveloped properties and so forth.  I’m betting that discussion would have taken up too much room.  Might even have had to bump a photo of a bear or something.

But, on the 3rd page, under the heading Water Conservation, we can get a head’s up.  Part of the rates and charges is based on water use.  If I understand correctly, the plan will average, say 3 winter month’s water use and that will be the basis of your flexible use charges (above the flat capital costs). (It’s presumed you’re not watering the lawn in winter so all water used in those three winter months is inside use which will need to pass through he sewer for processing, which will cost you)  What kind of further conservation plans will be in place remain to be developed.  But, starting now, I’d suggest all us Bearish folk start tracking our winter water bills for the next few years. Keep copies handy, since if you can show you’re consistently under the minimum being charged by the Rates & Charges ordinance, you may be able to get an adjustment.

And, according to the new Bay News, the CSD already has a WATER CZAR in place:  Justin Finch.  He’s our new Water Auditor and is now conducting water audits, starting with High End Users, i.e. folks who are running through water like it’s, well, water. He’s sent them letters offering an audit to see if he can offer ways they can cut down on their use (and thereby stop waste and save money).  Finch will be starting with the high-end users first, but if you think you could benefit from an audit, you can call the CSD at 528-9370.

But, first, I suggest a visit to the website at www.h2ouse.org to read all the obvious tips posted therein.  And once you’ve done all of them and think you may need more advice, give Justin a call.  The $30,000 cost of this service has been/ is being paid for by you in your increased water rates, so you might as well get some of that money back by seeing what Justin can help you with, water-wise.     

We’re all Los Osos, Now

Meanwhile, over at Slo Coast Journal ( www.slocoastjournal.com/ ) Jack McCurdy’s story notes that the Coastal Commission’s not-yet-released report on the DEIR of the proposed Morro Bay/ Cayucos sewer upgrade indicates the Commission’s sending it back for a re-do.  Apparently it doesn’t seriously consider alternative sites for the plant or consider water reuse.

That’s one of the odd, tragic things about this upgrade.  With water shortages predicted for all of California, why on earth would any town consider treating wastewater and then dumping it into the ocean?  Especially in a community that had to close wells due to groundwater contamination and that had to import state water?  Sure doing a complete toilet-to-tap remodel would cost gazillions and would likely displace 1/3 or more of Morro Bay residents due to cost, but, hey, We’re all Los Osos now.  I say turn the project over to MWH and stand back from the money train.

In an email that I received noting the Journal posting, the emailer commented on how all of the concerns the CC expressed in their report were the same concerns that citizens had consistently brought to the attention of the various City Councils over the years, only to be labeled as cranks and trouble makers and “ranters,” and etc.  Sound familiar?

Yep, we’re all Los Osos now.

Eeeeeuuuu, Ron, Eeeeeuuuu  

Talk about History of the World, Part I, there’s “Entirely Visible Floatables” over at Ron’s blog at www.sewerwatch.blogspot.com  Read it with a clothespin on your nose.

66 comments:

Ron said...

Ann writes:

"Justin Finch.  He’s our new Water Auditor"

I'd be interested in hearing Mr. Finch's take on the RWQCB's Item 19, and composting toilets.

Talk about something that'd save water.

Also:

"the Commission’s sending it back for a re-do.  Apparently it doesn’t seriously consider alternative sites for the plant or consider water reuse."

I'll be damned. It sure sounds like the CCC has learned its lesson from permitting the Tri-W disaster.

Finally,

"“Entirely Visible Floatables”"

Let the record reflect, those are Roger Briggs words to describe the Ponds of Disaster, not mine. I just exposed them (and found them funny... "floatables" ahahahahah! Unbelievable: The executive officer tells them "entirely visible floatables," and she STILL manages to get 87-percent of the town voter's to bite. Welcome to Los Osos. Ooooooooo, lookeeeee, Los Osos, little shiny things... oooooooo.)

Like I wrote, if her slogan had been "Entirely Visible Floatables" instead of "Better, Cheaper, Faster," the past 12-years-and-counting of sewer disaster would have never happened.

One mo' thing -- real quick:

As you probably saw, Ann, I quote you in that piece:

" I liken the mess we're in to the Tar Baby: Lie one begets Lie Two, which begets Lie Three, until Br'er Rabbit is stuck tight.I would put Lie One back to the Solutions Group that campaigned for a CSD on the promise of a $35 million ponding system when they had in hand the Coastal Commission Staff Report stating that best estimates put the sytem under review at $78 million, and the Solutions Group said nary a peep about that number or that report, which, was Dated October 1998 (The election was Nov. 1998) From THAT lie, everything is linked. "

That was from 2005, but, as we now know, I recently exposed a January 1998 letter to the Karners from the RWQCB, that hsowed the Karners that their fake project was a complete disaster nearly a full year BEFORE that October 1998 CC staff report.

So, if you're keeping score at home, look at what the Karners had stuffed DEEEEP in their BACK pockets the entire time they were telling LO "Better, cheaper, faster"

- The 1/98 letter from the RWQCB, that showed their project was a DOA disaster.

- The 6/98 Questa Study that showed the Karners that their project was a DOA disaster.

AND;

- The 10/98 CCC report that showed the Karners that their project was a DOA disaster.

I'm sure glad that I can now show that the Karners deliberately created the disaster just to make money, because if that wasn't the reason, that would mean that they deliberately created the disaster just to punish their community, which is MUCH worse than just doing it for money.

Thanks for the link, Ann.

(Although right now it seems to go to: "http://www.blogger.com/goog_515913058" [whatever that is] and not SewerWatch).

M said...

And yet their not in jail.
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

And neither is the board that bankrupted the CSD…

As for Morro Bay, absolutely - let's move the plant - and watch the price increase - just like we have here - let's see how much a few lawsuits can add to the cost while we are at it. Al - you busy?

Sewertoons said...

To answer Ann's question, "With water shortages predicted for all of California, why on earth would any town consider treating wastewater and then dumping it into the ocean?"

Cost. They paid for pipes for state water. Of course they can also pay more to re-use this -and then perhaps get to full build-out of 12,000 something. Or they can do the Los Osos thing - squander a resource because they don't want to build.

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

Your recalled Stan, Richard and Gordon bankrupted the CSD -- And let's not forget Pandora and her best pal Roger Briggs! That was their plan all along.

STOP THE LIES LYNETTE.

And I take it that you're for MWH in Morro Bay too?

And what about the kids at the High School that have to smell those horrible odors so often? You don't care about the kids either.

You care only about money for yourself I guess.

The County and Pandora figured out how to rid the town of riff-raff by using a over-priced sewer and Morro Bay will do the same. It's the plan.

Why don't you tell us about the imported water Lynette?

Mike said...

...say GRO... Since there was $4,000,000 left in the bank when the CSD5 took over, it would seem that the pre-recall team was not the ones who bankrupted the CSD... so get your "facts" straight...

...I'm sure the "audit" that Lisa had conducted before she took action to halt the project revealed the $4M... she also had been on the Board for a couple years prior to the recall, so she and Julie knew what was in the bank... or were they so stupid that they didn't pay attention and they simply turned over the back account to their lawyers....???

Churadogs said...

Toonces sez:"Cost. They paid for pipes for state water."

The problem is this: They paid for water PIPES but there is no guarantee that there will be any WATER in those pipes. And with weather change coming, it's likely there won't be. So, here they have a resource that can be recycled and they're dumping it into the sea because they think they'll be getting "water" when all they're guaranteed is they bought some "pipes."

GetRealOsos said...

Mike/Richard:

I believe there was only $3 million in the bank after the recall.

As far as the facts, you planned to bankrupt the CSD. You and Pandora and Roger Briggs. I've seen the emails stating this.

Stan stated, "I left you with nothing!"

You had the work start before the recall election (on Tri-W) -- don't you think that helped bankrupt the CSD? ... come on!!

Mike said...

...get real twit... you only "believe" or guess or lie... but YOU don't know...

The reality is that the CSD5 had control for more than a year BEFORE they filed for bankruptcy protection...!!! In the mean time they had an affair with Blesky, then an "undisclosed" conflict of interest with Jeff Edwards... They even disregarded government law and "blended" tax accounts... They,, the CSD5, not TW, not the past Directors, but Julie and Lisa and Chuck, voted not to accept the Blakeslee compromise...!!! They pissed away the $4M by handing over the bank to their hand picked, not competitively bid legal advice, they paid Al Barrow for a lost law suit.... Bottom line, they screwed this community with the few extremists exhorting into the "move the sewer" smokescreen... and now you and they want to further delay, or better still, stop any sewer at any cost anywhere... Why not be honest and stand on your soapbox and declare that YOU don't want a sewer... Oh yes, was that over YOUR dead body...!!!!

GetRealOsos said...

Mike/Richard,

Your protection wall is about to fall. Have a nice day.

M said...

Mike, where do you get all your inside information about the CSD? Do you have a connection or something to a former CSD director?
Sincerely, M

Mike said...

...I have just paid attention...to the reality rather than the emotional blame game...

There are legal facts and not just wishful thinking out there...

Sewertoons said...

M, that information has been floating around for ages. Where have you been? Richard has posed a ton of this stuff on the blogs.

Ann, MB can certainly do something about reusing the water. My comment was that it is just going to cost a whole lot more. You can see how anything costing more has raised a few problems in Los Osos. Same goes for MB.

Mike said...

Hi 'Toons... Morro Bay has nothing to worry about...they have the LO sewer/surfriders taking charge...

Sewertoons said...

Ha-ha-ha-ha!!!! Good luck MB!

GetRealOsos said...

Mike and Lynette are wrong again.

It's not the LO sewer/Surfriders taking charge -- IT'S THE COASTAL COMMISSION.

Big difference.

Sewertoons said...

Guess you never heard of the powers of lobbying GRO? You mustn't live in LO. That activity added a LOT to the cost of our project.

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

Talk about lobbying -- YOU have done nothing but lobby for MWH.

We know in Morro Bay that Janice Peter's brother sub-contracts with them.

How about Lou? Has he worked with MWH in the past too?

Care to share with us Lynette??

WHY do you lobby so very hard for them?

Their project will ruin people's lives, will ruin the environment, will ruin Chumash remains, etc.

If you and Lou aren't getting a piece of the action, WHY in the world would someone lobby so hard for them -- blogging day and night, on every site you can find, and doing it for years, promoting the WORST project possible for Los Osos and now Morro Bay!!??!!

Sewertoons said...

GRO,
Oh, did MWH get one or more of the contracts for Los Osos? According to the County's latest brochure, the contracts have not yet been awarded. Why do you continue to act as if they were? Oh wait, you don't own property here - and you didn't the brochure! Sorry!

Mike said...

Hey GRO... how about putting YOUR money on the line and file YOUR very own lawsuit against the State for giving MWH a contracting license...!!!! YOU seem so against MWH, maybe you have your own favorite contractor... Jeffie for instance..???? There seems to be some conspiracy against letting Edwards even bid any Public Works Projects in Los Osos or Morro Bay... Perhaps YOU don't understand the complexity of contracting law or civil engineering... Oh yes, you have demonstrated YOUR lack of knowledge on many, many, occasions...!!!! Dare we even mention YOUR total lack of common sense or logic...

GetRealOsos said...

Oh, the County isn't using the MWH design?

GetRealOsos said...

Oh, Morro Bay isn't wanting MWH?

GetRealOsos said...

Oh, Lou hasn't had any prior dealings with MWH?

Mike said...

Oh, who cares what YOU think...!!!

Sewertoons said...

GRO, we have ALREADY PAID for a collection system design. The County will give it a few tweaks now that he plant is out of town and some of the pump stations are different. Should the town PAY for a NEW DESIGN on a GRAVITY collection system because YOU don't like MWH? Why are we even talking about this?

Watershed Mark said...

Should the town PAY for a NEW DESIGN on a GRAVITY collection system Should the town PAY for a NEW DESIGN on a GRAVITY collection system because YOU don't like MWH?

Should the town pay for a corrupt process that promised a "best technology wins" EVALUATION of ALTERNATIVES that arbitrarily eliminated technology before the "finish line" which raises the cost of the project, because you don't like STEP/STEG/Vacuum?

Why are we even talking about this?



Because we are a litigious society, wait and see…

Watershed Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Watershed Mark said...

Government will, out of necessity, begin making smarter and therefore more economical "choices"...

We are "Taxed ENOUGH Already", doncha know..

GetRealOsos said...

Lynette,

If the County knew from the very beginning of taking the sewer project that they would use MWH's design -- and they DID know -- then WHY THE ALMOST $8 MILLION DOLLAR DOG AND PONY SHOW????

Answer this please.

$8 million dollars is a lot of money to be wasted by the County that we the PZ homeowners have to pay for!!!

Talk about waste of taxpayer's money!!

P.S. MWH is KNOWN for change orders to up the price. God only knows how much we'll end up paying for a very bad project.

Mike said...

GRO... YOU obviously don't know how contracts & change orders work...!!!!

The contractor is not automatically paid on some made up change order without the owner agreeing... There is always a reason for a change order...

...in the public arena, there seem to always be a few emotional outsiders like yourself who will fight against any public works project...

Fortunately the government agencies and contractors have learned to ignore the hand-wringer wantabe obstructionists and continue on to complete the project for the betterment of all society...

Get ready to pay or move on to Arizona...

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

Litigious society - one good reason why Step/Vacuum didn't make it - a taking of property by the government. You'd better believe there would be more than one lawsuit about that in Los Osos! (Never mind the political consequences to officials exercising eminent domain on substantial portions of property throughout an entire town.)

Cheaper is based on who you want to believe. Even Mr. Step himself had to keep lowering the bar on what was to be included in the Step package to make Step cheap enough (because he know it really wasn't), never mind cheapening the product delivered as a side effect!

I believe the County tried to show the Step advocates why it wouldn't work, but they failed to recognize the Step supporters for what they were. When you have True Believers in a product, that product can be shown to be totally ineffective but the TBs will defend it to the death, never allowing facts to cloud their judgement.

Alon Perlman said...

Nice exposition Toons. But given your accuracy on a lot of it, I will continue to point out that the complexity of our Sewersaga calls for individual refinement. Even the Los Osos invasion of Morro-bay Cayucos needs some refinement. Incidentally; I think I limited my comments to the MBC JPA to “If you move the plant, it’s as you are starting from scratch, from a regulatory perspective.” So that turned out correct.
Besides, I thought I coined “True Believers” (Nice try Alon, not going to get credit on that one). So while close, it’s the subtle differences between Move the sewer. STEP support, and Protesting the 218 that are most interesting
It’s no secret that Al had a lot to do with the initial part. The poster on his car at farmer’s market was a dead give-away. But though he has recruited several people, his follow through in groups falls apart, so someone else takes over. Linde is among those who are working on it. Linde stated that she thought STEP could still happen. The people who may ADD into protesting the 218 are more interesting then those EXPECTED to be involved. There wasn’t Information on 218 protest at farmers market this Monday. Anyone interested can read about (it may be available in the next Bay news) and even go to the meetings.
As I stated before I don’t think the numbers are there. And no recent Los Osos election indicates mistrust in the county proceeding.
What are people who have not previously been involved learning?
For me the answer that will be given to “What if the 218 protest Succeeds? is the interesting one, that and “What’s next”. The easy answer-county’s option to come back with a different set of rates and Charges- isn’t impressive to me.

Alon Perlman said...

By the way Toons; at the Traffic and Circulation Committee. Linde mentioned you as a person on CSD drainage who can assist in a County request to LOCAC, and the CSD in reviewing traffic and drainage basin maps. (Chuck Snead too)
Blast from the past-Christmas Bear-November project update; on the inside second page (someone pointed this out this to me) opposite waste water recycling. “Water Conservation”; there I am in the picture on the right. gained some weight since, note Al seems to have lost weight since. Maria in close to Al, Linde Marshal and others at the Scott’s valley plant.

GetRealOsos said...

Mike/Richard,

A company such as Perc sets a price and doesn't exceed it.

MWH is the opposite.


Lynette,

Do you really believe your own bull?

Has Lou worked with MWH in the past?

Either Step or Vacuum would work just fine in Los Osos -- and would cost much less.

The EPA prefers centralized systems.

The experts here in LO like Rob Miller agrees that Step or Vacuum would work. Many other experts agreed with that too.

So, again, why do you want anyone reading this blog to think that you know more than any expert that has weighed in on LO...my gosh Lynette...I do believe you're nuts!

Mike said...

GRO...I wasn't aware that any "experts" weighted in on this blog... certainly not YOU..!!

...just a bunch of nuts trying to sound like they are some sort of sewer and/or legal "expert"...

Sewertoons said...

Hi Mike - you are right. GRO doesn't seem to "get" that his favorite technologies, while they may work, are not less expensive, and may never be employed due to political and legal reasons. He seems to forget that the Pio Lombardo vacuum proposal back in 2006 worked out to be $29,000 per household or thereabouts.

Hi Alon, thanks for the meeting update, I wasn't able to be there this time. Yes, I intend to supply the info Chuck and I have processed back to the committee in a condensed form, hopefully on to the Board and out the door. The County has most of it already.

I believe Linde is wishful thinking. If this doesn't pass, that doesn't not mean that the County will suddenly look at Step again!

The sewer is moved so now it is really just about paying for the results, bankruptcy and all. Step is dead for Los Osos.

Churadogs said...

Gro sez:"The experts here in LO like Rob Miller agrees that Step or Vacuum would work. Many other experts agreed with that too."

Yep. This is/was not rocket science. Various systems WILL work, several sites are/are not more/less expensive, homeowners can/should vote on major choices. Not rocket science. And what I kept asking for: clear, honest information on several types and sites, clear honest information on price, homeowner's choice, etc. All of which was what was needed from day one: Chinese Menu honestly presented. Instead, we got spin, lies, fear-mongering, false framing of the questions/issues ("anti-sewer obstructionists" being the classic Big Lie), and fingers on scales. None of which were necessary.

toonces sez:"Litigious society - one good reason why Step/Vacuum didn't make it - a taking of property by the government. You'd better believe there would be more than one lawsuit about that in Los Osos!"

Actually, not true. Let's say the STEP system was picked. Homeowners would be presented with easement contracts to sign and hence sign on to hook up. The vast majority of the community would have signed on and the project would move forward. Those that didn't would be turned over to the RWQCB for a little CAO "waterboarding." Not a problem, as the refuseniks would soon find out.

LOVE the picture in the latest county flyer with various folks distinctly at odds with the county appearing in an old phto. Little sly humor there?

As for the protest vote? Never happen. Numerically it's beyond improbable to get 50% + 1 since not doing anything is the default position and not doing anything counts as agreement. So, homeowners will be footing the bill for the undeveloped properties for years and years and I'm betting they're unaware that that's what they'll be doing.

Irony: The recall was about three things: more affordable system, plant out of town, vote on the choice of system the homeowners would be "buying." Right now, the town ended up with two + out of three (In survey, slight majority picked gravity system, which wasn't what was promised,(design/build, best technology, etc.) but was a semblance of "choice")If costs come in the same or slightly less than Tri-W, it'll be 2 3/4th out of three, ("affordable" being relative.)

Tragedy: NONE of this mess had to happen. It was NEVER rocket science.

Mike Green said...

The recall was about money,
100/month vs. 200/month.

To say anything else is not being truthful.

Now thats irony.

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

Ann says:
"Homeowners would be presented with easement contracts to sign and hence sign on to hook up."

Yup, that's about when the lawsuits would begin. Did the threats of the Water Board action stop CCLO, CASE, etc? No. Granted they lost but they delayed the project of then and it raised the cost of it significantly - as did the threats of violence to the contractors.

Ann says,
"Those that didn't would be turned over to the RWQCB for a little CAO 'waterboarding.' Not a problem,…"

So Ann, you are now on the side of the Water Board exerting force because they would be enforcing YOUR CHOICE for a collection system? You are now on the side of punishing members of your community for protesting, when you have supported protests of this type for YOUR SIDE? In fact you VOLUNTARILY joined a lawsuit against the CDOs! You are now in FAVOR of that sort of force?

Ann says,
"LOVE the picture in the latest county flyer with various folks distinctly at odds with the county,"

I just looked at the photo - I see three at odds with the county, plus one I'm not sure about, (and one I have not seen since around the time the picture was taken and have NO idea about) out of 12. These people were on a trip and saw open tanks within feet of expensive housing with NO SMELL!

Mike Green said it correctly,
"The recall was about money, 100/month vs. 200/month."
Ann, you may not like the County's numbers on Step costs, but MORE of us trusted those numbers rather than the salesman's numbers - who kept leaving off parts of a Step project.

Out of town was touted as cheaper - without the qualification of Step - back in 2005! Move the sewer, not Step the sewer, remember?

Yeah, $196 vs. $205 - with the lower aquifer damaged by the past few years' accelerated salt water intrusion (which will cost us) due to no real conservation measures, a bankruptcy we will pay for in some fashion PLUS the stress of CDOs and NOVs. A real bargain for out of town all right.

Mike said...

Ann sez:

"Yep. This is/was not rocket science. Various systems WILL work, several sites are/are not more/less expensive, homeowners can/should vote on major choices. Not rocket science. And what I kept asking for: clear, honest information on several types and sites, clear honest information on price, homeowner's choice, etc. All of which was what was needed from day one: Chinese Menu honestly presented. Instead, we got spin, lies, fear-mongering, false framing of the questions/issues ("anti-sewer obstructionists" being the classic Big Lie), and fingers on scales. None of which were necessary."

Well Ann, YOU "kept asking for: clear, honest information on several types and sites, clear honest information on price, homeowner's choice, etc."... BUT, YOU DID NOT LISTEN OR WANT TO HEAR the answers that were given...!!!! YOU WERE LISTENED TO, BUT YOU CHOSE TO PURSUE YOUR OWN AGENDA....!!!!! YOU did not listen....The CSD DID work through the many options available... but there came a time to actually make decisions and rather than understand what you were being told, YOU spun it up into your emotional frenzy and you seem to relish YOUR self appointed role as a cheerleader... but you were/are only window dressing and no real substance... YOU STILL DO NOT LISTEN....!!!!!

Instead of being involved with the plan development, YOU and a handful had some personal agenda to halt ANY SEWER in Los Osos...!!!! Part of it was Gail McPherson's axe to grind and included her bringing in Joey to stir the emotions... Part of it was Lisa and her personal agenda, Julie had still another agenda, Al just needed a cause to vent his out of control mental illness on, Ron got fired from his "news" reporting and YOU apparently jumped to unfounded conclusions... and all of you turned into an unruly uncivil mop of extremist hell bend on halting some 8 years of difficult decisions, years of working with every government agency to obtain every legal permit required and the purchase of the sites needed to build the state-of-the art water treatment facility... You never gave a damn that the entire process was much more complex than the few wantabe sewer experts tried to make it sound so simple, only that YOU PERSONALLY DID NOT WANT what had been developed, you were/are selfish in YOUR PERSONAL wants... but ANN, YOU ARE NOT LOS OSOS...!!!! We are going to have a very expensive sewer and it was all so very unnecessary if the handful of you had been civil to the Directors we elected and LISTENED.... but YOU wanted your PERSONAL AGENDA... Well, we have it... MAYBE....!!!! There is a backlash that you haven't even begun to comprehend....!!!! Look in YOUR MIRROR and ask if all this was necessary.... There are a whole lot of us who totally disagree with YOU....!!!!!!!

FOGSWAMP said...

Oh yes "LISTENING", although at best, only one little snippet of our wastewater history it's an important one.

The community should never have "listened" to the false advertising that lead us all astray and stopped the original County Project.

However yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift because the skunk works is out of town and will in fact serve more of the community and also in fact cost less.

Mike said...

Sorry Foggy, but like ron, YOU are living in the past... Had the County put in the sewer 30 years ago, you would have been complaining back then... but thanks to the CSD5, we will all have a much bigger and much more expensive (more per month, per household) sewer...

I hope you enjoy the growth that is about to happen between LO and SLO with such a nice large wwtf... and piped in water...

Churadogs said...

Mike, once again you don't read or understand what I've written. It's fascinating how you keep missing key points.
Mike sez:" The CSD DID work through the many options available... but there came a time to actually make decisions"

What went missing prior to that was a return to the community to 'splain that the original Ponds were a lie from day one (See Ron's blog for documentation) and ask, "You voted in a CSD for a $43 a month sewer. That was dead prior to arrival, so What do you want us to do? Return to the county project? Look at gravity/STEP and have you vote on which you want to buy?" and therein would follow a "vote" like the county/survey, giving fair, ball park price guestimates. That didn't happen. Instead we were told a lie (in my case, right to my face by Stan) that Tri W was the ONLY choice and that a plant out of town was waaaaayyy more expensive (it wasn't. Per Bruce Buel, the additional cost relative to the overall cost of the plan, was close enough for the community to make that choice.)

The failure of the CSD to do what the county did (Pprocess, vote) is what lead to the recall confrontation. Which, I will say again, was NOT necessary.

Toonces sez:"Yup, that's about when the lawsuits would begin"

No, people NOT wanting to hook up couldn't sue the county or the project or anybody since there'd be no cause of action. They'd just be turned over to the Waterboard to deal with. Those folks would be the RWQCB's problem. The sewer project would proceed ahead.

GetRealOsos said...

Mike/Richard,

You say, "...I hope you enjoy the growth that is about to happen between LO and SLO with such a nice large wwtf... and piped in water.."

Well, wasn't that Sam Blakeslee's plan all along with AB2701?

Pretty much have Los Osos pay for others in the County to dump their waste? The first site with spray fields with so many acres of land -- it was pretty much a regional plant that would be paid for by the PZ homeowners!! At least Sarah Christie got us out of that one!
The County was all for it! What a scam rip off.

Doesn't Blakeslee work exclusively for the developers?

And, yes, imported water. That has been the plan since the beginning. You knew about it even with the Tri-W project.

Get real!

Mike said...

GRO... Enjoy your coming sewer and water bills...!!!! You really don't have a clue what Tri-W would have provided and you will apparently never understand any sewer system.... Enjoy...!!!

Sewertoons said...

Ann, we DID get fair ballpark estimates from the County on Step. You chose to believe the salesman instead, thus opine we didn't get a comparison.

You failed to explain how the Water Board going after the CDOers was a heinous crime, but the WB going after people who would object to a taking of their property for a Step tank is an acceptable thing to do. Ann, do you discriminate against your neighbors who don't like Step?

You also fail to realize that there are FAR less Step supporters than gravity supporters.

As for lawsuits, you ought to know, any excuse will do. The County would be attempting to get easements right now had there been even a slight vote on the side of Step and we had gone that way. It would not get to the Water Board just yet. Don't you recall Steve Paige's threat to the County - a "taking of his septic tank?" He settled quietly with the County - we don't know what went on behind closed doors and he has said nothing to the public and neither has the County. Now whatever did happen, the outcome would be quite different, with 50 people even, loudly confronting the County on a taking of land for a public use. (This is not equatable in any way to a meter reader coming on your property to read a meter, so don't bother to go there!)

You are right about one thing, the second 218 will pass and those who had the idea that NOT passing it would mean a return to Step will never get to be shot down on that unsupported theory.

Sewertoons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sewertoons said...

FOG says, " the skunk works is out of town and will in fact serve more of the community and also in fact cost less."

$10 is far less?

I wouldn't be too sure about it costing less FOG, or did you forget this stuff:

* We don't know what the bankruptcy will cost us, but I think we can assume we won't be off the hook for at least some amount of money. Perhaps we will have lower amounts of service, perhaps we will lose further money by selling off the money-making trash franchise, perhaps by raising the water rates, who knows?

* We have lost hundreds of feet of lower aquifer because the conservation measures from the old project that would have helped that number to be less did not go into effect. We have years to go before we have any conservation enforcement with teeth. The poor, broke CSD is doing the best it can with $30,000 a year, but that hardly compares to what a million could do, does it?

* The upper aquifer has lost the years of cleaning that the old project would have done for it, thus enabling us to use it to blend, taking some of the strain off of the lower aquifer. We can't blend now, it is too polluted. It might be years until we can.

* The 10th Street water tank (in poor repair and not at an optimal elevation for efficiency) was going to be replaced by a new one up on Highland. Now money has to be conjured up out of who knows where to replace it just where it sits. The CSD is bankrupt. Let's hope that Dan can pull something out of a hat.

* How do you measure the cost that already occurred to those with CDOs?

* We will have a plant out of town that can expand if need be. If our aquifers cannot support the growth, a pipe of water from somewhere surely can. I thought the resistance to a sewer was in part to prevent growth. The door is wide open now.

So maybe you don't see these costs to the delay. But hey, if you are happy…

Mike said...

Ann sez: ".... Instead we were told a lie (in my case, right to my face by Stan) that Tri W was the ONLY choice and that a plant out of town was waaaaayyy more expensive (it wasn't. Per Bruce Buel, the additional cost relative to the overall cost of the plan, was close enough for the community to make that choice.)"...

Well, since neither Stan or Bruce are around to defend their supposed statements, I guess we'll just have to take Ann's word that she is being perfectly honest in her recollection... It does seem a bit convenient that we don't really know the other side of the conversation... It's conceivable that Stan might have been provoked to have said those very words at 2 am during one of the many marathon sessions being orchestrated by Gail with plenty of threats and badgering by the parade of puppets... It really is too bad that Ann only remembers Stan being less than civil, but fully condones the extreme nasty tantrums of those not getting their way... There was at least one other Director who tried several times to explain the decisions to Ann, but she turned her tin ear as that was not what she personally wanted to hear...

That is really what this sewerish thread on her blog is and has always been about... Ann did not get her way and has gone waaaaaaaayyy out of her way to show her indignation and vindictiveness in blaming all those who she disagrees with...

But the bottom line is, there is a very expensive sewer coming to Los Osos and Ann will continue to provide her harpy point of view... she may even join a lawsuit or 2 in her efforts to halt any sewer... It has always been her way or no way...

Churadogs said...

Toonces sez:"Don't you recall Steve Paige's threat to the County - a "taking of his septic tank?" He settled quietly with the County - we don't know what went on behind closed doors and he has said nothing to the public and neither has the County."

Really. You know for a fact and confirmed with Steve that he sued the county and settled? Or somehow the county just gave him a bunch of money to shut up? Really?

Hey, Steve, ya wanna confirm Toones claim? How much did ya get?

Toonces also sez:"Now whatever did happen, the outcome would be quite different, with 50 people even, loudly confronting the County on a taking of land for a public use."

You don't understand, the county wouldn't be "taking" anything. Let's say the survey showed a majority of people wanted a Step system and they vote for the assessment. Remember, you have to pay the assessment even if you don't hook up to the sewer. So, the county starts the project. Homeowners are sent easement papers. The majority sign and get hooked up. (Just like what's going to happen with the gravity system going in.) Those that don't want to hook up will be turned over the the RWQCB. The COUNTY is not in the picture any longer. They assessed the property, they offered the hook-up, they were refused. The RWQCB will issue CAOs on the property. If anybody wants to sue, they'll have to sue the RWQCB or, they can comply with the ZERO discharge rules of the PZ. Since ZERO discharge is impossible, they will be forced by the RWQCB to sell or abandon their homes and the new buyer can call the County and say, Please, can I hook up to the sewer? The assessment's already on the property.

Toonces also sez:"You failed to explain how the Water Board going after the CDOers was a heinous crime, but the WB going after people who would object to a taking of their property for a Step tank is an acceptable thing to do."

I went after the RWQCB for singling out 45 people selectively for discriminatory "punishment" with a process that was F--ked up beyond reason that violated even a semblance of due process, that unfairly hammered certain people (but not others) for no functioning reason at all, a Mad Hatter Tea Party "kangaroo court" that often violated their OWN rules and procedures, all while letting you and me and the rest of the community off the hook. THAT's what I went after the RWQCB for. If you don't know that, then you haven't been paying attention. Do both you and Mike have ADD or something?

Churadogs said...

Mike sez:"Bruce are around to defend their supposed statements,"

Bruce's statement re the ball-park guestimate of Plant-Out-of-Town took place in a public meeting. Lots of people there.

and sez:"It's conceivable that Stan might have been provoked to have said those very words at 2 am"

Uh, no it was a Monday at Farmer's market where the CSD members were tabling to get people to sign postcards to Lois Capps begging for money for the project. Broad Daylight.

I've accused you of "making stuff up." And right here are two perfect examples.

and sez:"Ann did not get her way and has gone waaaaaaaayyy out of her way to show her indignation and vindictiveness in blaming all those who she disagrees with..."

Wrong again. I've accused Mike of having a real comprehension problem, of not understanding what he reads. Here's another perfect example. Let me see if I can make it really, really simple for you Mike. Pay attention. My mantra has been and remains: Clean, accurate Process, Chinese Menu, vote, then everybody shut up. That's not about "getting one's way." That's about(clean, no fingers on scale) majority rules, Mike. The original CSD failed on several points -- false/wrong info leading to the original CSD formation and later failure to heed repeated, repeated, repeated public requests for a side-by-side comparison of gravity/step, in-town/out of town, followed by a vote. The County finally got it right (with some fudging and spin). Once again, that's not about "getting one's way." It's about a process. And in Los Osos, that process went awry. And my criticism has been and remains all about that awry-ness.

and sez:"she may even join a lawsuit or 2 in her efforts to halt any sewer... It has always been her way or no way..."

See? There you go again. Making stuff up. Amazing.

Alon Perlman said...

Gotta chime in on this one, even though Mama –C has it covered.
Like you tunes, I was only around since mid ’04. Can’t speak to what transpired previously, but there were some promises made, including at the one on one individual level, that were not withdrawn. (The project did evolve so not all promises, could be kept) Can’t think of what Stan told Chris Alebe, and we can’t ask Chris, perhaps Ann remembers. Chris mentioned it in person and at meetings, perhaps it was answered perhaps not. Did all the conditions fulfill for the perfect storm conditions to abate? Obviously not . Did the former directors exercise due diligence? Debating it won’t change perceptions.

As for the STEP footprint, a lawsuit (s) was conceivable, but the threat of throw them to the waterwolves, 2011 looming, and the fact that all homes already had a dedicated space for a Tank and would actually “Gain” when the leach field would be taken out, ( yeh stormwater, big whoop). I made the WaterBoard hammer comment several times during TAC and I was not the only one.
STEP needed help once the County was able to show a shrunk cost differential. The County was not about to promote a technology it was not familiar with. So STEP needed some hard technical help to reduce it’s footprint. Then Tonini popped out the other side, and that distraction muddled things further.
At this point local STEP experts were popping up like veldt grass on disturbed soil. Somehow this expertise did not resolve any of the technical issues. By the time Ripley showed up at P.C. to explain a lesser than 90% Tank replacement, it was too little too late. The county had satisfied themselves regarding STEP. The onus was on STEP supporters. The technical arguments played a back seat to the conspiracy theories. Yet, The County should had carried STEP further, Why ?
Because Politics trumps engineering.
Would resistance had continued regardless? Of course, this is Los Osos.
Interesting stuff in the last Supervisors meeting. Who spoke, who didn’t. Who had other non-sewer issues. Linde is appealing to the Coastal commission on a project that LOCAC recommended for approval. Etc…

And 45 CDO’s?-Perfect storm conditions assured.

Sewertoons said...

Ann, maybe you don't read well. Steve was suing the County because he was going to be forbidden to use his septic tank. And then that disappeared off of the BOS's agenda. By all means, ask him what happened, I only speculated.

Fine, you think we'd need to sue the RWQCB instead of the County. I'd think you of all people - with your PZLDF connection - suing as was proven too late to make the case by 20 years, would understand that one can sue anybody for anything (think Wrecklamator). The RWQCB can be sued as well, but it is the COUNTY issuing easements, and they would be first in line for a lawsuit.

So you are saying - it is OK for the WRQCB to go after people if YOU like why they are doing it? Those 50 speculative people who balk at giving up their property for a public works project with no compensation, aka a Step tank? Oh, I get it - they were not randomly chosen. But then you and PZLDF claim the suit was to protect he entire community… I always objected to that line of thinking. Not everyone was whipped up onto a frenzy by Gail either. And aside from the PZLDF lawsuit, how much has anyone actually paid out of pocket in being a CDOer? BTW, how is that PZLDF suit going?

Beyond this stuff, Happy Thanksgiving folks; it is a beautiful day out and we have a LOT to be thankful for.

Sewertoons said...

Alon, I think Ripley did the process a disservice by once claiming that 90% needed replacement because the tanks were too small. Then to say they could be lined with bladders - to cheapen up the cost didn't quite carry the argument very far.

SLOTowner said...

And people spend Thanksgiving talking about a sewer? Do you people have lives?

Sewertoons said...

Yes. had a great day with the fam in LA. Back now. Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!

SLOTowner, thanks for asking.

Churadogs said...

Slotowner sez:"And people spend Thanksgiving talking about a sewer? Do you people have lives?"

We do indeed, except for what Ron Crawford calls the 1 & 1/2 Circle Jerkers. If you scan through the posts (and Archives) you'll see posts on all kinds of things, including thought provoking poems, with zero comments or maybe 1 or two but on a minor sewer topic, 58, 84, 69, endless. Same people or same people pretending to be different people, all chewing on each other's ankles.

toonces previously sez, of Steve Paige:"He settled quietly with the County - "

Now sez,"Ann, maybe you don't read well. Steve was suing the County because he was going to be forbidden to use his septic tank. And then that disappeared off of the BOS's agenda. By all means, ask him what happened, I only speculated."

Speculated? You said, "He settled with the county. . ." That's a statement of fact, Toonces, not "speculation?" Which is why I asked you if you knew that for a fact. Obviously not. You just made that up, apparently. Perhaps what you should have said is Steve threatened, at several BOS meetings, to sue the county or warn that the count "could be" sued over the taking of the tanks & etc. ? Threatened but didn't actually file a suit?

Alon, thanks for the overview. Toss in failure of oversight ("bait & switchy" at the CC) and the structural inability of the system governing large projects such as this to stop, back up and re-direct, make corrections, etc. and you end up with a train going in the wrong direction being fed coal for more and more speed, all heading for the cliff and nobody able (or willing) to move the tracks a few inches to avoid the fall.

M said...

How about it Sewertoons, what about Steve Paige?
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

http://slocounty.granicus.com/DocumentViewer.php?file=slocounty_826978fcca9e6b0ec1213cef884eab9a.pdf

"I. PENDING LITIGATION (Gov. Code, ' 54956.9.) It is the intention of the Board to meet in closed session
concerning the following items:
A. Conference with Legal Counsel B Existing Litigation (Gov. Code, ' 54956.9(a).) (Formally initiated) 1.
North County Watch (Viborg Asphalt., CV 098005) v. County of San Luis Obispo; 2. Wilcox v. County of San
Luis Obispo; 3. Cvancara v. County of San Luis Obispo; 4. Paige v. County of San Luis Obispo; 5. Friends of
Oceano Dunes Inc., et al. v. County of SLO, et al.; 6. Barrow v. County of San Luis Obispo; 7. Arriaga, et al.
v. County of San Luis Obispo, et al.; 8. Warren v. County of San Luis Obispo, et al."


Oh, you mean this off the January 5, 2010 agenda (also listed on the January 19 BOS agenda) was NOT from Steve Paige? Maybe I also mistook the words, "B Existing litigation" and "Formally initiated" (see point 4).

What do you all make of that?

Sewertoons said...

Ann says,
"the structural inability of the system governing large projects such as this to stop, back up and re-direct, make corrections, etc."

Ann, you got your project out of town. Those of us who wanted it in-town, to deny expansion of the WWTF and thereby curb growth, LOST. You wanted Step. Apparently those of us who wanted to make our opinion heard chose gravity in the survey. The Step side tried and tried - valiantly, I will say - to convince the "gravity" and "no opinion" people to vote Step. It didn't happen. So I disagree that governing system on THIS large project of the County's didn't work. It did work. You just spin it negatively because it all didn't go your way. We haven't "fallen" here as you put it. A CSD was clearly not a big enough entity to pull off "governing large projects such as this." It was 20 votes short.

M said...

You had just arrived in town and you wanted your sewer in the center of town? Thanks for nothing.
Sincerely, M

Sewertoons said...

M,
What influence did I have then on THAT? Actually, what influence do I have NOW? Zip is the correct answer I believe. You are welcome for nothing.

Churadogs said...

Toonces, re Steve Paige. Anybody know if that pending/threatened litigation went anywhere? i.e. that it still exists and is in force or was dismissed out of hand. Anybody can file suit. That doesn't mean anything until a judge actually agrees that it has merit and allows it to proceed. Has that happened with Steve?

Toonces sez:"So I disagree that governing system on THIS large project of the County's didn't work. It did work. You just spin it negatively because it all didn't go your way."

Again, you haven't been paying attention. MY way, nearly from day one waaaay back in 2000-something has been: Chinese menu, accurate data and costs, vote, shut up!

And what you missed in my comment was the observation I was making about major projects in general, the Tri-W project in particular. IF large project systems had mechanisms in them to allow pause and back up, then it's very likely the recall wouldn't have been necessary. You also mistake my point of view. I personally liked STEP for a number of reasons, and wrote a column expressing those reasons, HOWEVER, my constant point for years was that what was important was that the Process be clean. The CSD's original "process" was not clean, was, as Ron has shown,based on false info, the community was repeatedly denied a chance at that "process" and vote, and the system failed on a "pause/back up," (CC should have thrown a red flag down on the play) and ended up with the train-wreck of the recall. When the county took over, the "process" started again, was pretty well observed despite the "spin" (true, they fudged design/build) and the community got to vote. While I have been critical of that "spin" and failure to live up to the promise of design/build I have also repeatedly reminded the Sewer Crazies here that the community now got what it wanted -- out of town, gravity, maybe less expensive. Three out of three. Toonces, please point out to me where I have opposed that outcome? I have criticized it for spin and failures, but show me where I have opposed it. You can't. Unless you just want to make stuff up. And in case you or Mike have trouble reading, let me spell it out again: From nearly day one I have asked for: Chinese menu, accurate Process and ball park numbers, vote, then everyone shut up. Finally, FINALLY, I got that, even though it wasn't as clean as it should have been and came after the totally unecessary train-wreck of the recall.

Sewertoons said...

It's too bad that this thread fell off to the side. But finding this now, I'll respond.

I hope Steve answers. I would like to know where it went. At the last Bruce Gibson meeting Paavo said that there was no litigation threatening the project.

D/B is not an option due to funding issues. Most of us do not want to pay more to do D/B and lose the cheap money!

(As an aside, I thought Gail's comments at the BOS last week were absurd. She criticized the County for not getting the cheapest money because she, Gail, had just refinanced her house and got a cheaper rate than the County did for the sewer! Like a house re-fi and a multi-million dollar public works project were going after the same sort of funding!)

As for pausing, that was in the hands of the Water Board. They were willing to pause for litigation and I'd bet not much else. But you are more familiar with them than I am. What do you think?

The only process that need concern us now is the County's. Ron's rant has gone way beyond boring.

Ann says,
"I have also repeatedly reminded the Sewer Crazies here that the community now got what it wanted -- out of town, gravity, maybe less expensive."

And which postings of yours would that have been stated? Sorry I may have missed them.

Perhaps if your support, no — make that non-opposition to the outcome was more clearly stated, I wouldn't be asking you where to find both that and telling the crazies that they got what they wanted.

Also, gravity is not what the sewer crazies wanted! Those same sewer crazies that helped push the recall! Do you suppose that your repeated criticism of the County processes' alleged flaws is what has helped fuel the crazie's continued attacks on the County?

Just remember, the Measure B ka-ka passed by only 20 votes, there was not an overwhelming push to move it out of town. As for less expensive, that remains to be seen. The bankruptcy has not yet been resolved.